Culver City Police-were you harrassed/mistreated during June Crank Mob Ride?
Thread started by
epic at 06.21.09 - 9:06 am
If you've been mistreated, harassed or ticketed unfairly by police while riding in Culver City please contact me ASAP at
labicyclist@gmail.com
with all the specific details. thanks
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Riding two abreast in accordance with CC law, I was cited for 21202. I was riding with my girlfriend when someone got on the loudspeaker to shout "get out of my street!" I said "we're not doing anything wrong!" Then he swerves to cut me off.
The cop had no idea that it was legal to ride the sidewalk in CC and threatened to ticket two hispanic males for riding on the sidewalk when I started quizzing him on bike law.
Oh yeah, and this was outside of their jurisdiction.
tortuga_veloce06.21.09 - 10:39 am
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@epic
I'll send you an email w/ the Culver City police cruiser number, it's one out of at least two that were driving aggressively, at high speed towards the group.
Those cops were true dicks. High school football team material.
jericho1ne06.21.09 - 3:30 pm
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Quizzing? Why where you quizzing a cop?
tern06.21.09 - 4:01 pm
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Thing is....talk to Steve Box for the way to talk to a police officer, if you want to protest at the moment of the confrontation. There are other people out there that know how to maintain their rights....and still contest the situation (whatever it may be) without getting arrested. Most often, you should just take a vent....and try to have a logical conversation with them.
tern06.21.09 - 4:06 pm
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i asked him if he knew that bikes can "take the lane." he said that wasnt true. so i wanted to see just how uninformed he was. he also didnt know that cyclists may ride "no more than two abreast" in culver city, and he didnt know that cyclists may ride on the sidewalk in culver city either.
then i guess he realized that i was embarrassing him, because he threatened to ticket a couple of innocent passers-by if i didnt stop asking questions. it was just fucking disgusting.
i was getting a bullshit ticket, so i figured i might as well see how stupid he was. he was really fucking stupid. damn shame KKKulver City Cops dont have cameras in their cars. they and Inglewood need a federal injunction just as badly as the LAPD if not worse.
i for one want to make sure they get at least some of what's coming to them. its good to know that there are a few people willing to take this all the way.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by tern
06.21.09 - 4:13 pm
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Were you riding on the sidewalk, or in the street?
tern06.21.09 - 4:15 pm
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so the citation was for riding two abreast? what EXACTLY was the citation for. there are lawyers on here. you should say specifically what your citation was for they migt help you.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.21.09 - 4:20 pm
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21202. i had at least learned this is easier to win in court than impeding traffic. these officers were totally out of control, but after a few minutes, they calmed down and that's when i started grilling them.
i forgot to mention, my own citation was a while back, and this same officer has harassed several cyclists on different rides. i wouldnt be at all surprised if he and his partner were there last night.
with regard to the crank mob incidents, after the guy with the soundsystem was arrested, 5 of us were waiting on the corner, trying to reach people and exchanging phone numbers. just then, the police informed us that we constituted an unlawful assembly and ordered us to disperse. i've never heard anything so ridiculous.
on the way to buy new camera batteries, i witnessed a stunning display of intimidation at the costco parking lot: one of the police cars was a K-9 unit, and they actually had the dog bark into the microphone to scare the people eating at IN-N-OUT. then they were told they were not allowed to eat at IN-N-OUT, but had to leave.
i wonder if we could appeal to local businesses to support us? these cowboys went too far.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.21.09 - 4:21 pm
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*when we were ordered to disperse, the five of us were waiting at the corner no less than 50 feet away and across the street from the police. it was ridiculous.
tortuga_veloce06.21.09 - 4:22 pm
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Shit...I know I am gonna sound like a cop, but most of them who work in traffic are trained about car violations. We are a new thing, because of our growth. But, it isn't really true to think that all of these cops are up on the laws that we, as riders are so attuned to. I think that L.A. (don't know about Culver City) is getting better....the cops have more knowledge, recently, of the laws for bikes, I think. But, you must realize that these people who are cops are people like we as ridazz are. You get the cops who are up-to-date with the laws regarding cyclists, and you get the cops who are not up to date in this regard, and who also have a slack self-standard in the way they carry out their work.
Some cops will even get us through a ride...just to help out. Some cops ride with MR.
I don't know. Any other insights?
tern06.21.09 - 4:25 pm
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p.s I am not a cop. And I will never be a cop. Okay, bye.
tern06.21.09 - 4:27 pm
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self doubt is a sign of wisdom and humility. in the absence of said virtues, many police districts need a mandatory educational program for problem officers.
we need to directly address the issues of slack standards for Culver City officers, just as we have for LAPD. we need to talk to attend their meetings, talk to their commanding officers and let them know that we aren't going to be intimidated off the streets.
culver city council meetings are conveniently in the evenings, on alternating mondays and tuesdays. city hall is down the street from crank mob park.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by tern
06.21.09 - 4:35 pm
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Cool...I think you have some good ideas.
So what, exactly, is the citation for?
And, I will take this call offline.
tern06.21.09 - 4:38 pm
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I'll be working with the guy who posted this thread. If you want to reach me, my email is project21202 (hat) gmail (dodd) calm
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by tern
06.21.09 - 4:48 pm
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Also, I should say this:
I live on an Island off of Florida....I've been here for eight months.
A bunch of stuff can happen in a city like L.A. in 8 months. So, I am giving you the caveat that I am not an expert on any of these things.
Have fun on your bike.
Laters...for real, this time, at least until tomorrow.
tern06.21.09 - 4:50 pm
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I feel like MR has given this city a soul like it hasnt had in years. If we can do that I firmly believe we can give our law enforcement a bit of common sense. And if that doesnt work, we'll just start a militant organization like the black panthers to counter the authority of the police.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by tern
06.21.09 - 4:57 pm
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JK. You do a lot more damage with a camera. If I had fresh batteries in my camera last night, those officers would be sweating for their pensions right now.
Something for us all to remember.
tortuga_veloce06.21.09 - 4:59 pm
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Tern, it is law enforcement's job to know the laws and how to legally enforce the laws. They keep a copy of the California Vehicle Code in their cars.
epic06.21.09 - 6:53 pm
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If anyone has photos or video from last night that depicts Culver City PD's actions, please throw a link up on this thread.
jericho1ne responding to a
comment by epic
06.21.09 - 7:43 pm
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LO fuckin LEWL. A militant organization to fight the police hahah good luck with that one. the black panthers themselves couldn't even defeat the cops that way.... but that kind of talk will get some digital eyebrows raised on eschelon. Haha
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.21.09 - 7:54 pm
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These cops are giving you the bum rush outa these businesses you guys stop at cause you let them. Really, splitting from an In and Out you guys are stopped at eating? Ralph's where you're buying beer and crap? WTF? Why do you guys do this? Stand up for your rights and let them know you're no different than anyone else stopping there. I could see them running you guys out of CostCo since the place was closed. But if the establishment doesn't call the cops, there's no reason for you guys to leave some of the stops.
Which brings me to one time what I saw was pretty funny. I forget what ride it was, but we were at a store buying beer and stuff, and a cop car rolls into the parking lot. Everyone started to split, scattered everywhere! The cop didn't have to do nothing! No lights, no siren, no loud speaker, NOTHING. LOL I bet he wished his whole job was that easy. It was fuckin lame we split like that.
User106.21.09 - 9:02 pm
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Tern, it is law enforcement's job to know the laws and how to legally enforce the laws. They keep a copy of the California Vehicle Code in their cars.
correction: they bring a "cheater book" with summaries of the laws, and the inadequacies of those summaries are a big part of the problem. compare the summary of 21202 with the actual law.
cheater book:
"21202 BIKE-SLOW MOVING Ride as near the right hand curb or edge of the roadway as practicable. EXCEPTIONS: May use left on one way street."
LADOT's summary
Use of the Roadway (CVC 21202) Bicycles traveling slower than the normal speed of traffic must ride as close to the right side of the road as practicable except: when passing, preparing for a left turn, to avoid hazards and dangerous conditions or if the lane is too narrow.
and here's the law:
Operation on Roadway
21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right- hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.
Amended Sec. 4, Ch. 674, Stats. 1996. Effective January 1, 1997.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by epic
06.21.09 - 9:32 pm
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one time we got kicked out of a ralphs against the wishes of the manager-on-duty. then the cops started trying to convince her that we were bad people. it was fucking ridiculous.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by User1
06.21.09 - 9:34 pm
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"A militant organization to fight the police"
correction: a citizens' cyclist organization that asserts its rights to the press, free speech, assembly and the right to bear arms.
seeing as we currently practice 3 of 4 of those, id say the Bicycle Berets are one act of police brutality from becoming a reality.
(seriously though, cameras people. youre slightly less likely to get arrested when you shoot a cop but it hurts them just as bad.)
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.21.09 - 9:40 pm
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Un/fortunately I was not present last night, but I just want to say, for the record...that Culver City sucks. It's been causing me trouble for years. Nothing good happens in Culver City...except for the Museum of Jurassic Technology.
Best of luck to ya, lemme know if you wanna talk to an attorney.
HappyLand06.21.09 - 10:06 pm
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the museum of jurassic technology is on the LA side of the street.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by HappyLand
06.21.09 - 10:24 pm
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I stand corrected.
These two elements make it LEGAL to ride in the left lane (going in the direction of flow of traffic) if either are true:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, bicycles, that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656.
So if both lanes are full of bikes, you can use the left lane.
epic06.21.09 - 11:38 pm
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Also: if both lanes are full of bikes riding about the same speed then the bikes speed are the normal speed of traffic and you can use the left lane:
"at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right- hand curb or edge of the roadway"
epic06.21.09 - 11:41 pm
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You defense goes something like this,
You got ticketed for riding 2 abreast.
Were you riding faster than traffic? yes? case dismissed. No? proceed to next question.
Were you approaching an intersection where a right turn is permitted? Yes, then case dismissed. No, next question.
Were you riding in a lane with a substandard lane width (11feet)? Yes, then case dismissed. No, next question
Were you overtaking another rider on your right? Yes, case dismissed. No, next question.
And on and on. You can get this ticket dismissed.
alexdc06.21.09 - 11:43 pm
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oh democracy.. where have you been all this time.
tivu06.21.09 - 11:52 pm
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"Were you approaching an intersection where a right turn is permitted? "
You mean turning left, yeah?
User1 responding to a
comment by alexdc
06.22.09 - 12:03 am
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my defense will start with "i was 3 blocks outside of culver city when i was first asked to pull over. when i was stopped i was 2 blocks outside of culver city."
case dismissed.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by alexdc
06.22.09 - 12:12 am
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i wish there was a video of the first part. those cops were downright stupid.
tortuga_veloce06.22.09 - 10:08 am
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"You mean turning left, yeah? "
No. You can "take the lane" whenever you're approaching an intersection where a right turn is permitted. You don't have to be making any turn to take the lane.
alexdc responding to a
comment by User1
06.22.09 - 10:09 am
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"my defense will start with "i was 3 blocks outside of culver city when i was first asked to pull over. when i was stopped i was 2 blocks outside of culver city." "
Torguga,
The vehicle code you were cited under makes no reference to culver city. I would base your defense entirely on the content of the code you're cited under.
Are you stating this because Culver City PD was the agency that wrote you the ticket? I don't know if that makes the ticket null & void.
You should be prepared to fight the ticket based on more than that argument.
This is one of the best descriptions of the law as it applies to cyclists:
http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/03/06/if-you-want-to-know-bike-laws-dont-ask-the-california-highway-patrol/
alexdc responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.22.09 - 10:17 am
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This is one of the reasons I gave up crank mob. This and the stupid drunken kids who can't hold there line.
Ill be back though, we all eventually return to the fire that sparks our curiosity
Debut21306.22.09 - 10:43 am
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Print this pic out and show it to the cop who tries to cite you for riding 2 abreast:
LAPD riding 2 abreast.
http://laist.com/2009/06/22/lat_poll_thumbs_up_to_lapd_thumbs_s.php
alexdc06.22.09 - 11:09 am
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Won't work. Police are not bound by a hard line not to patrol outside their jurisdiction. This aint smokey and the bandit. Hahaha example, my boy bought a house a few blocks outside the border of burnbank and los angeles, however one of the selling points was that the area was patrolled by the burbank pd.
Culver may have a similar arrangement.
And please keep the militant against cops shit off this site. I know you are just being dramatic for effect, but its not welcome here. I will ban you for it Midnight Ridazz respects and works with the cops and strives for a friendly relationship no matter the circumstances. Writing that militant shit even if its a joke can be used as an excuse for all kinds of ill scrutiny and classification by law enforcement.. I know you are completely joking. ButNo more talk about that nonsense. Thanks.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.22.09 - 11:57 am
reply
OK you're right. I went back and read 21202 again. There was one provision that pertains to what you are saying.
Number (4) of 21202 ,
when approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. The rider can take the lane. Which leaves me wondering why people don't use that as a defense more often? We ride in an urban environment, and just about every few hundred feet there's a place where one can make a right turn. A right turn can also be a right turn into a drive way. That's the way I interpret it anyways.
User1 responding to a
comment by alexdc
06.22.09 - 6:17 pm
reply
id argue it in court. most of the streets i ride on are substandard lanes or have surface hazards.
check out this report on the condition of LA's roads.
http://www.lacity.org/BOSS/State_Streets/2008_State_of_the_Streets.pdf
From the report:
"The results of the Street Infrastructure Condition Assessment are as follows:
• Approximately 24 percent of the street system is in condition “A” (PCI 86 to 100)
• Approximately 17 percent of the street system is in condition “B” (PCI 71 to 85)
• Approximately 22 percent of the street system is in condition “C” (PCI 56 to 70)
• Approximately 14 percent of the street system is in condition “D” (PCI 41 to 55)
• Approximately 23 percent of the street system is in condition “F” (PCI 0 to 40)"
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by User1
06.22.09 - 7:04 pm
reply
Haven't read this entire thread, because I'm tired, but did anyone else see the cop who, with at least half the ride behind him, threw his squad car into REVERSE? It was not too far in front of me. I had enough time to swerve left & avoid hitting him, but this put me biking into oncoming traffic. This may have been what he was trying to do ... force me to do something illegal, then ticket me for it. Officer Reverso didn't finish the job, though, if that was his intent. He didn't ticket me or even pursue me. I don't know if the people behind me were so lucky.
katiepoche06.23.09 - 7:03 pm
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Roadblock, are you defending the actions of the CCPD in almost running down riders with their cars, making false arrests, giving bogus tickets and threatening lawful behavior, ie, calling 5 people an "unlawful assembly"? Law Enforcement that behaves like that should not be employed as cops.
"Midnight Ridazz respects and works with the cops and strives for a friendly relationship no matter the circumstances"
Are you referring to the membership of the site?
gundo06.23.09 - 11:29 pm
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no I'm not defending the cops. I'm saying that it's the goal of Midnight Ridazz to develop a good relationship with them. it alway has been a goal to be friendly with the cops and to be friendly with those sad pathetic souls in cars.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by gundo
06.24.09 - 12:23 am
reply
So who is up for complaining at the CC PD station this or next week?
gundo07.11.09 - 8:25 pm
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