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Thread Box:
Cyclists' Bill of Rights - Storm the Bastille!
Thread started by SoapBoxLA at 11.18.08 - 12:31 am

Civil Rides!

The Cyclists' Bill of Rights has been busy this year, picking up endorsements from East Hollywood, Silver Lake, Atwater Village and Coastal San Pedro Neighborhood Councils along with the Caltrans and Los Angeles Bicycle Advisory Committees and finally ending up in the Ventura County Bicycle Master Plan.

The CBR has been featured on KCRW and KFI radio as well as the KCAL and KTLA news. It has been featured in the LA Times, the Wall Street Journal, the London Times and the London Telegraph newspapers as well as blogs in San Francisco, Philadelphia, New York, Australia, New Zealand and India.

Along the way the CBR inspired cyclists in Florida to initiate a petition urging the State legislature to adopt the Cyclists' Bill of Rights. It also inspired a local Harley Owners' Group to write their own Bill of Rights, a trend that has continued with the Equestrians of Foothill Trails now riding under the Equestrian Bill of Rights.

It has been a long journey and the Cyclists' Bill of Rights is coming home, to the City of Los Angeles' Transportation Committee which meets this Friday at 1:00 p.m. to consider endorsing the CBR and recommending it to the full City Council for adoption.

The Cyclists' Bill of Rights really needs no endorsement, after all it's simply full of rights cyclists already possess when they ride but it's important that these rights are recognized and supported by our City's leadership.

To that end, we ask that the City Council's Transportation Committee 1) endorse the Cyclists' Bill of Rights "as written - as ridden!" and 2) direct the LADOT to incorporate the Cyclists' Bill of Rights "as written - as ridden!" in the city's Bicycle Master Plan.

Please join us at City Hall this Friday and join us in urging our leadership to endorse the Cyclists' Bill of Rights "as written - as ridden!" If you can't make it, email your words of encouragement and endorsement and we will carry your letter to the City Council's Transportation Committee.

If you'd like to ride with us, we leave RedQuarters (Santa Monica & Vermont Red Line Station) at 12 noon for City Hall.

FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 2008
TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE, SPECIAL MEETING
ROOM 1010, CITY HALL - 1:00 PM
200 NORTH SPRING STREET, LOS ANGELES, CA 90012

"See you on the Streets!"

reply


WESTSIDAZZ



I will be riding to this meeting from the westside - assuming the air quality is alright - at 11:30 a.m. from CRANK MOB PARK (Venice and Canfield). That is 11:30 a.m. sharp that I will leave = this is not bike time. So if you want to ride with, be there!

Also - the Facebook Event is here.



Alex Thompson
11.18.08 - 12:37 am

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Everyone with a flexible schedule, or doesn't have one, should totally go and represent. I really wish these meetings didn't always have to conflict with having a job.



GarySe7en
11.18.08 - 9:06 am

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Will they be serving lunch at this?



User1
11.18.08 - 11:14 am

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The meeting AGENDA:

1) Discussion of the Cyclists' Bill of Rights (some pressure from council to only adopt it with changes)
2) Report on the status of the city's bike licensing program
3) Report on the progress of the Bicycle Master Plan Update
4) Report on the possibility of a bike sharing program in LA
5) Report on Sharrows progress

Plus other sustainable transportation discussion stuff.

I think some folks here might be interested in some of these things.




GarySe7en
11.18.08 - 9:22 pm

reply





GarySe7en
11.19.08 - 10:54 am

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Today may possibly be the biggest L.A. City Council Meeting ever. Todays agenda is Billy the elephant at the L.A. zoo. I'm all for animal rights, so I found that good news so many took an interest. Lets show the city council that cyclists are interesting too.



GarySe7en
11.19.08 - 12:29 pm

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I wrote up an article about what the BAC did with the CBR.

We cannot let the City Council do the same thing. Please, show up and tell your leaders to approve it "as written - as ridden!"





illuminateLA
11.20.08 - 2:48 pm

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I am going to this for two reasons.

#1 we need to reprefucking-zent for bicyclists and beat down the throats of city council to get there fucking heads out their assholes -if you can imagine that kind of manuever - and recognize that this city is filled with obnoxious ignorant, car driving retards and needs a humanistic change.

#2 zuma dogg





Roadblock
11.20.08 - 4:09 pm

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Zuma Dogg's gonna be there?!?



Joe Borfo
11.20.08 - 4:13 pm

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Zuma Dogg!

Oh, and can somebody who attends this give us a heads up on WTF's going on with the bike licensing program?

Having people get tickets for not having licenses, while bike shops are ignoring their legal duty to provide licenses, and the LAPD only provides them at random times and places, is kind of BS.



JB
11.20.08 - 4:18 pm

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As far as I know, the mothafuckin z to the d-o-double G will BE there. But what the hell do I know I watch LA36 and that guy is always there.

Maybe its time for Boxadogg to get all up in they face. Tell me this is going to be broadcast on LA36!!



Roadblock
11.20.08 - 4:32 pm

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SoapBoxLA is going to twitter the results I believe. And I'm sure that it will air on LA36 as well, for those of you who have a tv.



illuminateLA
11.20.08 - 4:45 pm

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C'mon my fellow jobless fucks. All you LUNCH ridazz. Lets get a beer or 3 at purr luck and ride with this shit. We rode for H8 now lets ride for..... uh.... for..... the cyclists bill of R8!

Oh.



Roadblock
11.20.08 - 4:59 pm

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shit I'm down for this. I better bring some flash cards though.



la duderina
11.20.08 - 8:41 pm

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will the ride be passing by wilshire/vermont or are they taking santa monica down ?? orrr what



la duderina
11.20.08 - 8:47 pm

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fuck it dude. I got an idea



la duderina
11.20.08 - 8:49 pm

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How cool would it be to show up as big ole sweaty group to the podium surrounding Mr. Box as he presents our community's most important bill of rights to the money puppets at city hall. Who can take a half day and come out??



Roadblock
11.20.08 - 9:17 pm

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If I can reschedule my appt I will be there.



dannyzuko
11.20.08 - 9:29 pm

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Lunch Ridazz will be representin'. Well at least I will be.

yeah.



la duderina
11.20.08 - 9:35 pm

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"will the ride be passing by wilshire/vermont or are they taking santa monica down ?? orrr what"

la duderina:

We'll take Santa Monica from Vermont to Sunset and then turn left at Park Ave. (at Brite Spot), right on Glendale Ave, left on 2nd and straight to City Hall.




illuminateLA
11.20.08 - 11:13 pm

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ok thanks!



la duderina
11.20.08 - 11:27 pm

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It's a committee meeting - the Transportation Committee, and it's not in the main room but in the room pictured below. However, if we kick ass in committee, then we can easily be going before the council soon, and then we'd have the second largest city in North America on board with the Cyclists' Bill of Rights.

(Box on the end slouching, Josef next to him)





Alex Thompson
11.20.08 - 11:28 pm

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no Zuma Dogg?



Roadblock
11.21.08 - 12:02 am

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Probably no Zuma Dogg. I cried when Stephen told me. For days.

What you will see is a bunch of council persons and staffers taken aback by attendance. This should be more people than they've seen in a while.



Alex Thompson
11.21.08 - 12:11 am

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Who needs the dogg when we got the kitteh!



Joe Borfo
11.21.08 - 12:15 am

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Is KNITTENS coming? They don't let in kittehs . . . how will KNITTENS sneak in? Someone should bring a bag for KNITTENS.



Alex Thompson
11.21.08 - 12:18 am

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Yeah whatever, where's the party Saturday night? And what time should I be at Pure Luck tomorrow?



PC
11.21.08 - 12:29 am

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purr luck for a beer or 3 at 11am sharp!



Roadblock
11.21.08 - 12:41 am

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Zuma Dogg!!! Ruff'e



sexy
11.21.08 - 1:09 am

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I plan to be at city hall.



Joe Borfo
11.21.08 - 1:12 am

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RAWSOME






Roadblock
11.21.08 - 1:12 am

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Tomorrow there will be two groups of people:

Those who ride to City hall after power-brunching in Roadblock's private room at Pure Luck...

Those who sit, forlorn and lonely, in a cubicle, trapped at work and wondering what's happening at City Hall.

No worries!

http://www.lacity.org/cdaudio_wm.htm

Dial in and listen to the session.Howl really loud at the good parts!

email the Committee Members and give them a piece of your mind!

councilmember.greuel@lacity.org, councilmember.alarcon@lacity.org, councilmember.parks@lacity.org, councilmember.rosendahl@lacity.org, Councilmember.labonge@lacity.org,
mayor@lacity.org

See you on the Streets!




SoapBoxLA
11.21.08 - 1:28 am

reply


COUNCILPHONE
A dial-up system which allows the public to listen to live coverage of the Los Angeles City Public Meetings from any phone. Dial up and listen in.

Downtown (213) 621-CITY
San Pedro (310) 547-CITY
West Los Angeles (310) 471-CITY
Van Nuys (818) 904-9450



SoapBoxLA
11.21.08 - 1:29 am

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GET FUCKING PSYCHED - TREX IS HUNGRY!!





Alex Thompson
11.21.08 - 9:55 am

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Crappy talking points I just wrote up:



Riders,

We're here to represent cyclists with awesome before the Transportation Committee of the LA City Council. Our message is simple - we are an important but neglected constituency, and it is time for the Council to put their full support behind cyclists. To that end, here are some talking points from the Bike Writers Collective.

To speak on any issue you need to submit a comment card. Comment cards can be found near the entrance of the room. If you would like help working out what to say during public comment, or help filling out a comment card, grab a member of the Bike Writers Collective - Alex Thompson, Stephen Box, Enci Box, or any others present. They can help you out.

You have 2 minutes to speak on any issue that you submit a comment card. If you don't feel knowledgeable about an issue one way of approaching it is to speak about how the issue personally affects you, or an example that you observed. You know about you and your friends and family - you know a lot - and that will come across.



Cyclists' Bill of Rights:

The Bike Writers Collectives' primary goal today is to encourage the Transportation Committee to endorse the Cyclists' Bill of Rights (CBR) as written. These rights are rights we have, although they are often stolen from us, already. They are the rights we have when we ride, so the Cyclists' Bill of Rights is "as written, as ridden."

Talking points for the CBR:

** The rights are already rights that we possess. This is a positive affirmation of them - they should be endorsed as written. "As written - as ridden" (enunciate your "T"s!)

** The Los Angeles Bicycle Advisory Committee recently corrupted the CBR in an attempt to endorse a weakened version of the CBR. They removed 4 rights - including rights #11 and #12, which reaffirm cyclists 1st and 4th amendment rights. WHAT? Who has an objection to the 1st or 4th amendment? That's as un-American as rotten apple pie.

** Cyclists in LA are under siege daily. Motorists are insensitive and sometimes assault cyclists, law enforcement are misinformed of cyclists rights, and often treat them as second class citizens - they even use a bike license law intended to recover stolen bikes to harass cyclists. The abuse of cyclists rights is not an abstract issue - it's real and it's happening as you read this. We need a strong and broad statement of support from the Council, and endorsing the CBR is just that. Pick a personal story of how your rights as a cyclist have been infringed, and share it. Remember - emotion communicates - how did you feel?





LA’s bike licensing program: Officers of the LAPD have recently taken to enforcing LA the requirement that any cyclist have a bike license for their bike (LA Municipal Code 26.01). Specifically, they used the law to harass Midnight Ridazzz. The law is a travesty. It was originally conceived as a way to recover stolen bikes, not as a means to harass cyclists. Now many LAPD stations won’t even register you, even though they are tasked with implementing the program. Worse - the law is illegal. What?!! That’s right, the State of California permits municipalities to require registration from residents operating a bicycle, but LA requires everyone to register their bike. This law criminalizes cyclists, and it fails at it's original purpose - it must go. Get rid of it.

Bicycle Masterplan Update: The Los Angeles Department of Transportation (LADOT) and their contractors at Alta Planning are updating the city's Bicycle Masterplan. The 2002 and 1996 plans were good plans, but most of each plan wasn't implemented. What commitment do we have from the council to implement the 2008/09 plan. Additionally - there was very little community outreach during the first phase of the plan update. Their needs to be more transparency in the creation of the plan, and a greater degree of community outreach.

Possibility of a bike sharing program in LA: The Council asked LADOT to look into the possibility of a bike sharing program. LADOT responded that “The City city still lacks a continuous network (of bikeways) to accomodate bicycle use for the bike sharing program.” Ok, fair enough - what they’re saying is that novice bikers need a bikeways network to ride about safely, and LA doesn’t have one. But, LADOT’s sloth is the reason we don’t have a decent bikeways network. A continuous bikeway network was part of the 1996 Bicycle Master Plan, and since then LADOT has made very little progress toward that. When does “we didn’t do what we promised, so we can’t do anything to help you” stop being an excuse?

Adding Sharrows to Garcetti’s district: A motion was advanced in July to add Sharrows to some major streets in the Hollywood area. LADOT will report on the progress so far studying this motion. Sharrows are an innovative lane marking which indicates to drivers that cyclists are present and using the lane, legitimizing their presence, and help guide inexperienced cyclists in toward proper lane position. Sharrows = good!




Alex Thompson
11.21.08 - 9:58 am

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I know what my talking point is going to be. Sharrows, sign-age, bike lanes. Sharrows, sign-age, bike lanes. Sharrows, sign-age, bike lanes. Sharrows, sign-age, bike lanes. Sharrows, sign-age, bike lanes. Sharrows, sign-age, bike lanes. Sharrows, sign-age, bike lanes.

In my mind, the most effective way to get across the message to motorists that bikes are entitled to the road is to start putting bicycle infrastructure into the system. Bike routes should become sharrow roads. There should be sharrowed bike routes that take you east west and north south every mile laterally and longitudinally everywhere in the city. There should always be dedicated bike paths along any new rail line or busway.

As for a bike sharing program, I really feel its a waste of time and resources to even think of that. Those programs work in cities where there are gads and gads of cyclists and strong healthy cycling infrastructure. We are about 30 years from achieving that and then another 20 years from achieving the critical mass of cyclists to support or even need that kind of program. X it from the agenda.

As for compromising the bill of rights, you can't expect them to endorse a right that already exists in another form. They know that the right to assemble means a critical mass style ride in our minds and they are loathe to support that. I full understand and would retract that part of the bill personally if it means everything else passes. But that's just me, I won't speak on it at the meeting since this is the bwc's action and you guys obviously are adamnt about it. I'm fine with tackling the right to have mass rides in another arena at another date.

The most important thing in my mind is to provide the infrastructure to educate motorists and have timid people feel safe on the streets. The more people who feel safe the more the constituency grows. That's number one in my mind.


see you on the streets





Roadblock
11.21.08 - 10:32 am

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I'm riding up from LBC will be there by noon, leaving now

come out for this people

ride ur fucking bikes!



dannyzuko
11.21.08 - 10:34 am

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"What you will see is a bunch of council persons and staffers taken aback by attendance. "

Well we are in tough competition in this department, the meeting this Wednesday to discuss Billy the Elephant at the LA Zoo filled the room to capacity and greatly exceeded expectations of attendance, making it one of the most attended meetings of the LA city council. I'm all for animal rights, but what about our rights, lets make them really take notice.



GarySe7en
11.21.08 - 11:56 am

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Food fight in City Hall Room 1010!!!



sexy
11.21.08 - 12:34 pm

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"Thank you Mr. Block." Ha!

Thank you Mr. Box for posting the dial-in. At least I was with you all in spirit. So glad to hear the council's positive reaction to the confusion about bike licensing and mighty pleased to hear that a city endorsement of the Bicyclists' Bill of Rights--as written and ridden--might practially be, "a done deal." Sweet!




two wheels good
11.21.08 - 3:21 pm

reply


Council Audio Archive to listen to meeting:

http://www.lacity.org/cdaudio_wm.htm

Transportation Committee hearing, 11/21/08 - that is the recording to download/listen to



ubrayj02
11.21.08 - 3:38 pm

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Zuma Dogg would be proud.



la duderina
11.21.08 - 4:12 pm

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so, let's get a recap for those who were sleeping or drunk or not there...





FuzzBeast
11.21.08 - 5:49 pm

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The LACity Council Transportation Committee voted unanimously to endorse the Cyclists' Bill of Rights and send it to the full City Council for adoption.

The Assistant City Attorney reserved the right to take a closer look at the document, make sure cyclists aren't trying to pull a fast one over on the City.

Heck, if Cyclists get a Bill of Rights, everybody is gonna start wanting one. See what Burger King Started!

Lots of familiar faces, lots of new faces, from San Pedro/LB to the Westside to the far reaches of the Valley to East LA, cyclists came from all over and spoke passionately and effectively.

QOTD - "The problem with the Sharrows is that encouraging cycling might interfere with the flow of traffic and cause congestion." LADOT

QOTD2 - "Have the people at the LADOT never spoken to a cyclist before?" Rhode Bloch

To all those who turned out, thank you! To all those who emailed in their comments, thank you! To all those with little LADOT Voodoo Dolls, keep twisting their heads...it worked!

It ain't over but the Transportation Committee saw a tremendous display of cycling solidarity and heard great ideas from lots of eloquent speakers.

The Bicycle Master Plan isn't done, the Bike License issue isn't resolved, the Sharrows haven't been painted..but we've got their attention and we've got momentum and we've got rights! Lots of them!



SoapBoxLA
11.21.08 - 6:29 pm

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QOTD - "The problem with the Sharrows is that encouraging cycling might interfere with the flow of traffic and cause congestion." LADOT

wait... uh, WHAT?

has anyone at LADOT even read the CVC?

Since when did traffic

traf⋅fic
   /ˈtræfɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [traf-ik] Show IPA Pronunciation
noun, verb, -ficked, -fick⋅ing.
–noun
1. the movement of vehicles, ships, persons, etc., in an area, along a street, through an air lane, over a water route, etc.: the heavy traffic on Main Street.
2. the vehicles, persons, etc., moving in an area, along a street, etc.
3. the transportation of goods for the purpose of trade, by sea, land, or air: ships of traffic.
4. trade; buying and selling; commercial dealings.
5. trade between different countries or places; commerce.
6. the business done by a railroad or other carrier in the transportation of freight or passengers.
7. the aggregate of freight, passengers, telephone or telegraph messages, etc., handled, esp. in a given period.
8. communication, dealings, or contact between persons or groups: traffic between the Democrats and the Republicans.
9. mutual exchange or communication: traffic in ideas.
10. trade in some specific commodity or service, often of an illegal nature: the vast traffic in narcotics.
–verb (used without object)
11. to carry on traffic, trade, or commercial dealings.
12. to trade or deal in a specific commodity or service, often of an illegal nature (usually fol. by in): to traffic in opium.


get defined as CARS and TRUCKS only?

Let's defeat LADOT with a dictionary!



FuzzBeast
11.21.08 - 6:50 pm

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If I'm not mistaken, did they not put a moratorium on bike licenses????



sexy
11.21.08 - 6:51 pm

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yeah, what Partic said! well done.



dannyzuko
11.21.08 - 7:08 pm

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Moratorium - I heard LaBonge call for it, LAPD Assistant Chief Paysinger say no and then LaBonge backed down.

Rosendahl entered and was more emphatic and Parks backed him up but LAPD Assistant Chief Paysinger said "a law is a law."

Parks and Rosendahl said "If it's a bad law, you can agree not to enforce it." Paysinger wouldn't give it up!

It ain't over!



SoapBoxLA
11.21.08 - 7:15 pm

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Moratorium - I heard LaBonge call for it, LAPD Assistant Chief Paysinger say no and then LaBonge backed down.

Rosendahl entered and was more emphatic and Parks backed him up but LAPD Assistant Chief Paysinger said "a law is a law."

Parks and Rosendahl said "If it's a bad law, you can agree not to enforce it." Paysinger wouldn't give it up!

It ain't over!



SoapBoxLA
11.21.08 - 7:15 pm

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So what do we do now? I will be lobbying my council member Smith Council District 12.......

I thought it was a success today (but I'm green to this committees meetings) although no food fight broke out :-{



sexy
11.21.08 - 7:17 pm

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Next step is to make sure that Rosendahl etal follow through with their threat to have the City Council put a moratorium on the law. Jesus, that was a really pathetic showing by the LAPD. Almost as bad as when LADOT said they didn't want to put Sharrows on streets that have a lot of traffic.



daymen
11.21.08 - 7:40 pm

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I guess I should have posted my gratuitous Streetsblog link here.



daymen
11.21.08 - 7:47 pm

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Ok.. I emailed my council member about supporting the CBR without modifications and sharrows with a little anecdote to illustrate the point.

If you go to: http://www.ci.la.ca.us/council.htm
then click on your council members name you will be taken to their website. somewhere on there should be "your team" or "staff". Click that and then find the legislative person in the district office closest to your house. Email that person your request and comments. This works on a couple of levels.. district offices aren't as busy as downtown so they actually READ the emails.. and you should get a response. At least I do. So, for follow up questions or other comments you have a real live person to contact.

Be respectful.. use "Mr. so and so" or "Ms. so and so" when addressing the staff member and use your representatives full title: Council Member So and So.





furbrats!
11.21.08 - 7:58 pm

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Deputy Dawg likes to keep order in Council Chambers!



SoapBoxLA
11.21.08 - 8:42 pm

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the LADOT were straight CLUELESS I was going bananas.



Roadblock
11.21.08 - 10:09 pm

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FWIW, Joe Linton argues that Inyoue (sp?) from LADOT may have been arguing that an angry motorist could sue the city if the marking was causing traffic to slow down under CEQA. Seems like a reach to me, but not nearly as horrifying as what we all heard him say.



daymen
11.21.08 - 10:15 pm

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I just re-listened to their arguments and boy howdy are they not speaking coherantly about cycling infrastructure. I wanted to get back on the mike and argue ubrayj's point that they are taking stats on number of vehicles being transported when it should be number about number of people being transported. they were citing streets in SF that had 2000 vehicles per day rolling and then contrasting that with fountain avenue which they claimed was at 10,000 vehicles. my question is how many of the vehicles on the 2kvpd street were busses or light rail? were bicycles even counted on either street???



Roadblock
11.21.08 - 10:27 pm

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For those who attended the Transportation Committee today, here are some links to the Transpo Committee members and the Mayor.

Shoot them an email and thank them for endorsing the Cyclists' Bill of Rights.

Urge them to put their shoulder to the Bicycle License issue.
Urge them to spend a few bucks, hook up Capt. Sharrows and get to work.
Urge them to support cyclists in whatever way is important to you.

Whatever you do, follow up with them and let them know that it ain't over.

TC Chairwoman Greuel
Councilman Parks
Councilman Rosendahl
Councilman LaBonge
Mayor Villaraigosa

Councilman Alarcon is also on the committee but he was celebrating his birthday today.



SoapBoxLA
11.21.08 - 10:50 pm

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Look at Parks.... Parks was texting 94% of the time. why is he even on that committee? he looked bored as hell and off in a distant land.....



Roadblock
11.21.08 - 10:52 pm

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They (DOT) were clueless on so many levels, I plan on being more involved in the near future, fo sho




dannyzuko
11.21.08 - 10:54 pm

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Parks was live-blogging! He's a madman! Pretty good bike jouster also.



SoapBoxLA
11.21.08 - 11:14 pm

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this was the funniest part

Mr. Block on the edge of his seat waving his hand in the air "Teacher! Teacher!"

hahahaha



la duderina
11.22.08 - 2:33 am

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Parks was live-blogging! He's a madman! Pretty good bike jouster also.

SoapBoxLA
11.22.08 - 2:14 am

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LOL!



la duderina
11.22.08 - 2:34 am

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Bike Radio is on right now. Killradio.org. Soapbox is there and they're talking about the meeting yesterday and playing excerpts.



PC
11.22.08 - 10:24 am

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Jim C (O20) is hosting. Alex Thompson is on the phone with them right now.



PC
11.22.08 - 10:32 am

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No, that's that's not AT, that's knittens!



Joe Borfo
11.22.08 - 10:33 am

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To listen, choose a stream

below based on your connection speed:




Icecast

MP3 at 16 kbps
(28K modem)





Icecast

MP3 at 32 kbps
(56K modem)



Icecast

MP3 at 64 kbps
(DSL/Cable)







Roadblock
11.22.08 - 10:38 am

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or tinyurl.com/spiraldemon for something really beautiful.



Joe Borfo
11.22.08 - 10:42 am

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that link is very tempting Borfo.....



Roadblock
11.22.08 - 10:44 am

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BikeRadio was lots of fun. There were 7 of us wrestling for Mr. Microphone while Alex and Enci and Rhode Bloch and PC and Amanda all called in and took us to task for sitting around in the studio on such a beautiful day. Good times! Looking forward to doing it again.





SoapBoxLA
11.22.08 - 1:12 pm

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fuckin borfo!!



Roadblock
11.22.08 - 1:23 pm

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Good job by all on Kill Radio!

Hey did someone posted the items they were going to discuss at this meeting I missed it? It would have been very helpful to know what they were going to discuss before hand. Yeah I got it that we were going to discuss the Cyclist Bill of Rights, but the other 8 items I missed somehow.





User1
11.22.08 - 1:34 pm

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