NOTE: All timestamps are in the future because WE are in the future. The care takers of Midnight Ridazz.com reserves the right to remove, edit, move or delete anything for any reason. None of the opinions expressed on these boards represent the Midnight Ridazz nor can anyone purport to speak on behalf of Midnight Ridazz.
Fire and safety personnel have alerted Metro Operations that large groups of bicycles on Metro trains is a safety hazard. At all times, and especially during emergencies, passengers (and potentially, emergency personnel) need to be able to enter/exit any door and move about any aisle. Doors and aisles will not be allowed to be blocked at any time per Fire Safety code.
Train operators have been instructed not to leave rail platforms if a car is so overcrowded with bicycles that passengers are unable to move about freely. Law enforcement will be present to help enforce these safety needs.
If your ride's participants are planning on using the rail lines to get home, be prepared to split up and ride in small numbers in each train car. Many riders will need to wait for next arriving trains. Consider bicycling home with a group of friends/other ride participants instead.
Train operators have been instructed not to leave rail platforms if a car is so overcrowded with bicycles that passengers are unable to move about freely.
Are you going to do the same when the train is so crowded with with people that you cant move around like happens on the Red line? Or is this selective enforcement? If these rules were true then there never should be a time when one cyclist cant get on the train because is so over crowded with people, right?
Thank you for the heads-up. I can see how train cars full of bikes could be construed as a safety hazard in regards to non-cycling passengers. However, the trains don't usually run late enough for us to split up the ride by multiple trains. Many would be left stranded.
I know that asking us to consider bicycling home is only a suggestion on your part but it is a rude one. Why doesn't Metro just ask all of it's passengers to consider cycling home rather than using Metro?
Metro train operators have suggested that we use the intercom on the platform to request that an additional train be dispatched to handle the demand. Often times we do so and no action is taken.
We are paying customers! The Metro should be happy to fill the trains and help pay for the operating costs which are currently heavily supplemented by the government.
I hope you come back to the forum to follow up on this.
We'll try to follow up as we can here. Please feel free to also come to our Operations subcommittee, as well. The next one will be in mid-September. We'll post again here to announce the specific date and time.
Our other subcommittees are as follows:
Policy and Planning Subcommittee--Wednesday, September 22, 6-8p
Implementation Subcommittee--Wednesday, September 29, 6-8p
And our 4th Bicycle Roundtable meeting meets Friday, November 5, 2-4p, at the Metro One Gateway building.
There are four bikes in that photograph, so what is the limit that you are suggesting? 2 to 3 cyclists per Metro car? I've been on the Metro when there were that many unrelated, non-group ride bicycles in one car. It seems unhelpful to suggest that bike congestion on the Metro is solely the fault of group rides.
Guidelines on how to store you bike on the Metro without it being a hazard seems more helpful. Or having cars with more bike space like the Metrolink - Orange County line or the Coaster.
nancine responding to a comment by BikeMetro
08.31.10 - 3:57 pm
Thanks. I thought metro would address this better than a blunt statement on FB, twitter and MR.
Obviously this is not the fire safety issue is important, but the frequency of X number of cyclist entering the train in a big group seems to be a very small percentage of metro boardings and seem to be late at night.
Which goes to the question of City sponsored events like CicLAvia. How will metro accommodate large number of cyclists that are encouraged to take public transportation with their bike to participate?
To me the late night rides are a non-issue compared to bigger events and that is what Metro should focus on.
Foldie responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.31.10 - 3:58 pm
Here's another example of the particular problem we're trying to address right now: http://www.midnightridazz.com/viewPhoto.php?galleryId=42059&artistId=456&pgnum=4
Also this: http://www.midnightridazz.com/viewPhoto.php?galleryId=42060&artistId=456&pgnum=4
Our Operations committee, to which everyone is invited, is working on creating common sense rules about how to board with a bike, what signage is needed, what future train car designs need, etc. These definitely need to be addressed.
In the meantime, Operations staff are very concerned about the safety of trains overcrowded with bikes as in the two photos linked above. Such instances are dangerous in the event of an emergency and need to stop.
The infrequency of the problem doesn't lessen it's safety problems. Which is why Operations staff requested that this announcement be made today, as a number of Tuesday night rides have been at issue.
We will have to start preparing for CicLAvia. I'll make sure this is brought up at the next Operations subcommittee.
Is there a possibility that we could call ahead and have and extra train for the ride? If not, is it first come first seating for passengers with bikes vs walk on passengers with luggage or passengers alone? Thank you for your response.
X-Large responding to a comment by BikeMetro
08.31.10 - 4:33 pm
Well, I hope you guys are also tackling the packed like sardines phenomenon on the buses and rail lines during high peak hours. Not to mention any number of obstacles like big strollers, luggage, bags of groceries, bulky junk, and various other items that can be on a bus/train at any one time and slow down evacuation during an emergency.
Just pointing out that doors and aisles are frequently blocked on any given day by other kinds of passengers, too.
Okay, looks like a doozy, time for us welders to put this shit together out of twisted metal and sell it to the highest bidder.
As per Foldie, G/S Security services that provide security for MAX never really hassle the Zoobombers due to them only taking the train from Mid-Town on up to the Zoo, and since it's a Sunday night, there you go.
OK seeing that pic of the four bikes blocking the door now it really seems like the the language of this message needs to not be centered around bikes. I can't be the only one who has seen the doorways clogged in a similar fashion by non-bike items.
Why can't Metro take out some seats so that all sorts of aisle-blocking items (bikes, strollers, larger wheelchairs, luggage, etc) can be safely transported without risking safety?
The sprinter train in Oceanside has a similar set up for bikes. When I rode it there was 6 or 7 bikes stacked without inhibiting the passengers. There was even two people in wheelchairs.
Foldie responding to a comment by theroyalacademy
08.31.10 - 8:35 pm
It's probably been over a year since I've posted here, but let me say this is probably the most insulting thread I've seen on MR. Really, the second largest mass transit system in the country can't figure out a way to get bikes out of the aisles than telling cyclists to stay off their trains if there's too many of them?
metro is too cheap to actually do anything to benefit cyclists. how about you dedicate half a car or a full car to cyclists? that's better than telling us we're not allowed to ride the train.
I think I would agree with Anty the most. Put a car at the back with no seats and let people bring strollers and all their crap and bicycles.
c'mon metro, the bicycle and the train compliment each other. The train is fast and kind of sort of gets you to the general area of where you want to go then you just bike the other 4-5 miles.
I refuse to be stuck in traffic on a bus but I'll take a train cross town with my bike.
Many times I follow the signage and want to go the appropriate place for bikes, and there's a homeless person camping out there. Or lots of people standing there instead of in other places. So I can't even get my bike in that space, even though if the people or homeless person were elsewhere, my bike would fit.
The space you allow for bikes is so ridiculously limited, that I can only laugh at this request. If you were concerned with safety, you would find a way to accommodate cyclists, instead of doing such a shoddy job.
Bike Metro your request is ridiculous! I completely understand the importance of having exits accessible in case of emergencies if ALL the metro cars were designed accordingly to accommodate bikes as well as wheelchaired patrons or passengers with carts etc. It is ridiculous to point the finger and blame a group of paying patrons (I assume) for the misallocation of millions of dollars to go to a TAP system that isn't being used as opposed to spending it on a more convenient way of transporting ALL paying passengers without blocking exits.
As many Angelinos have noticed, bikes are becoming a very common sight. It's something that the city should start learning to accommodate. Isn't that how it's SUPPOSED to work? Wasn't public transportation created to serve the people? Not the other way around, if there's a problem, fix it! I'm sure that $.25 increase can help towards putting a few hooks/taking out a few seats, etc.
"how about you dedicate half a car or a full car to cyclists? that's better than telling us we're not allowed to ride the train."
+1, especially on the light rail lines. Put something similar to a bike rack where the seats normally go. That will allow the area around the doors and the walkways to remain clear.
Hallucin8 responding to a comment by coldcut
08.31.10 - 11:29 pm
There is no "on-record" limit to the number of bikes on cars....I know because I asked at the last Round table.
Also don't rag on BikeMetro personally he's a cool guy...:)
Yeah the metro meetings are during "work hours". So list your concerns and I ( or another bum like Box who was at the last meeting :)) will voice them for you.
...or twitter them..
Hear this as the "heads up" that it's meant to be...
Daymen you're a professional advocate, you can make the meetings, right?
This is an opportunity to help shape bicycle policy on Metro!
Alice, I don't think anyone's lobbing personal affronts at this person, but he's posting under the auspices of Metro, and I think we have a right to respond to his request and lodge complaints. He represents Metro; if he wants to post as himself, he can get a personal handle.
When I lived in Davis I used to take Amtrak and they had a dedicated area with hooks near the entrance for your bike. If you take the bikes off the ground and out of people's ways, I'm sure you'll actually make more room for passengers in other parts of the train.
Thanks for using our trains (less than 2% of our staff do), but please refrain from using them in large groups. When you use our trains, you simulate an effective option for moving large amounts of people, regardless of race and ethnicity.
Your presence on these trains will inevitably lead to improvements in service that we are not willing to make, leading to conflict with the interests of our car driving staff.
Next time you think about using Metro, don't! Just drive. It's faster because we spend hundreds of millions every year to ensure that you will leave public transit for the poor and recently paroled."
I think there are two distinct issues here. BikeMetro is addressing a specific issue where group rides will cause the issue of too many bikes on one train. I think that is a fair point and observation and should be addressed.
Yes the argument that other people with strollers, packages, luggage etc causes the same problem. But addressing this specific occurrence is valid.
Addressing the overall policy and capacity issues is what I think everyone else has done a good job in expressing. Metro needs to be more proactive and adjust just like other train operators in which we have seen good examples of adapting.
But at the end of the day Chynna said it best.
"I think everyone has good points but at the same time the train shouldn't be abused."
So as ride leaders taking rides on trains, you may have to use 3 or 4 trains instead of 1. Seems fair to me.
Un-related...but causes issues too...Transients with all of their belongings...and their friggin stench!!!! ULGH!!!! That's gross!! Why do they allow these people to come and take up like 4 spots with a smell that keeps people packed to one side...And the bikes are in the way?? There is a forcefield of dookie stench around these people...definately a fire hazard.... Thanks to all those who can go to the meetings for us cyclist!! Don't let Metro take the easy route... we pay enough to be accomodated.
I totally understand what you mean but if they are paying and can provide proof of their ticket purchase, then they are paying customers too.
I agree with what Foldie said. There are various issues being talked about in this post but I think we need clarification on the max number of bikes on a train. Looking forward to Metro's follow up answer :)
graciela responding to a comment by FIXMYLIFE
09.1.10 - 11:59 am
Seriously, if they didn't want backlash then they should have just said "we want to remind everyone that blocking the aisles with bikes and other large items can be a fire/safety hazard. Please use the designated areas and do not block doorways. If you are part of large party of cyclists, please consider breaking up the group into many cars so that access to doorways is not impeded. Thank you for your consideration."
Instead of telling us we should bike and not take the train. I'm tired of the way people talk to cyclists, and everytime they (officials, reps of various depts) do this, I am going to call them out on it.
"please consider breaking up the group into many cars so that access to doorways is not impeded"
I was on the metro with a large group ride, when the train operator (who was super nice) informed us en-route that, officially, she was not supposed leave the platform with more than 4 (or 3--I can't remember) bikes per car. Everyone on board burst into laughter.
petr0lb0mb responding to a comment by danceralamode
09.1.10 - 12:59 pm
About the same as Amtrak, but then again they get bullied by the real US Government,
BNSF/UPRR, who masquerade as a private entity acting like they wouldn't be here without federal funding.
This is just silly, is there a room full of people over at metro that sit together all day and find reasons not to accomidate cyclists in the transit future?
I'm surprized they are not worried about the collective amount of greese among many bikes could be used as an excellerent by an individual with ill intent so bikes with wet lube better beware.
My biggest problem here is that cyclists - and I'm not talking about party riders, group riders, etc, but cyclists in general - are unfairly targeted when it comes not only to policymaking, but enforcement. If Metro employees and Sheriffs are willing to make such a fuss over one-too-many bicycles on any given car of the Red Line, they had better be just as willing to cite other passengers for improperly filling space that is signed for bicycles.
Why do Metro and the County Sheriffs employ selective enforcement? This is not rhetorical, I am actually looking for an answer here. I expect you to enforce all of your rules if you are going to enforce any. Serve cyclists if you are going to restrict us.
Is this too much to ask? (That one was rhetorical.)
This thread pisses me off so much.
Typical Metro Los Angeles.
"Wah! Wah! We have too many people using the system!!!. Let's boot them out! Let's increase ticket prices!"
How about accommodating them? How about planning for them?
IT'S YOUR FUCKIN JOB!!!!
It's your job Metro to solve problems of overcrowding, overcapacity etc.
It's not our job to disappear into thin air because you don't know how to deal with our presence.
Unbolt a couple of seats and make room for bikes. This is how Portland does it.
It's not a big deal.
BM you're full of BS, when Metro asks people who are blocking the way during rush hour to walk home then I will take you seriously. Till then...eff off! LOL
I GOT ONE THING TO SAY ------ FUCK METRO
THERE ARE ONLY A FEW SUCKERS ON THE TRAIN WHEN I USUALLY GET ON IT, I FOLLOW THE RULES BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO, GET THE FUCK OFF THIS WEBSITE, I COME HERE TO FIND A RIDE, TALK SHIT AND SAY "SUP FAG!!" TO ME FRIENDS.
NOT TO HAVE YOU TELL ME HOW TO RIDE THE TRAIN. I HAVE NEVER SEEN MORE THAN THREE OR FOUR BIKES AT ANY ONE TIM ON ANY TRAIN, BECAUSE YOU BITCHES AND THEM "SELF RIGHTEOUS" ROBOTS THAT HAVE TO RIDE THE TRAIN BECAUSE THEY CANT AFFORD A "CAR", NOT BECAUSE THEY CARE ABOUT THAT BIG ASS "CARBON FOOTPRINT" THAT THEY LEAVE BEHIND AS THEY ARE PUSHING UP DAISEYS.
YOU WANT TO ADVISE SOMEONE ABOUT HOW TO DO SOMETHING, THEN EXPLAIN TO THEM ASS HOLES THAT ROLL PAST US, ON OUR BIKES, SMASHING DOWN SUNSET BLVD, IN THEIR BIG ASS S.U.V. IN THE BIKE LANE? FUCK YOU, GET A JOB!!!!
NEXT TIME I GET ON THE TRAIN, WITH MY BIKE, I'MA BE A BIG UNCUT DICK.
What I'm finding funny is that this tread has been here only 3 days and I've seen all these pictures and comments of solutions that require fairly simply implementation. EXCEPT for the politics that are involved with it.... GO FIGURE...
Easy Solutions, Hard Politics... who the hell is in charge of taking out a few bolts in chairs and putting in hooks???
"Without the locking turnstiles, Raymond said, Metro plans in two months to start using an alert system that will trigger a flashing light on top of the gates when someone goes through without a TAP card. Fare inspectors and sheriff's deputies who see the light can ask the rider for their TAP card or ticket and check to see if they have a valid fare."
Anyone know if they sell TAP cards at all the vending machines? I've always used paper tickets. And what's the point of selling paper tickets if you're desperately trying to phase them out? Metro is clearly a screwed up agency if it can't figure out how to gate it's own stations and it's telling cyclists to not use the train because it doesn't have the space to accommodate them. >_<
The metro announcement really isn't that unreasonable.... Even if a train is built to handle bikes, which they should be, especially the greenline goldline style trains, there would be a limit to the amount of bikes that could safely be put on board...
That being said metro does need to get it's act together in terms of carrying bikes. You need to have a bike if you are using metro train because they don't really get you to your destination and by the time a commuter transfers to a bus you've spent an hour and a half travelling to a place when riding would save you 45 minutes of time that you'd be stuck waiting for a bus and waiting in traffic on a bus.
This is just another example of how midnight Ridazz changes the landscape. Causing metro to get all up in arms about Ridazz on the trains. You can't stop us there are too many and we're literally everywhere.. Cmon metro, wake up and work with bike riders. It could be a great relationship. Accommodate bikes!
I see people do this all the time on the redline .... Im always tempeted to walk over and say your an asshole ... but Im to busy checking out FIDM girls .....
I don't agree. There's no where to actually put a bike legally so you have to make do... you actually aren't allowed to put your bike against the operator's door... and you aren't supposed to block the doors on either side... true he could have sat in the perpendicular to the isle seat and held his bike with his left arm, but metro needs to get with the times and update their cars.
i'm with Roadblock on this one. i don't mind putting my bike up in seats because there's no other way to "safely" and "legally' put my bike. i take the train from LB to DTLA, that's a 40+ minute ride, and i'm not going to stand up holding my bike the whole way if i can help it. i try to be courteous by bringing my folding bike on the metro rail, but even if i had my full size roadie or fixie, i'd do that. if people can occupy empty seats with their bags/groceries/etc, i can do so with my bicycle.
Yeah, whenever I have to be on the train for a long period of time, and if I'm sitting holding it, I always try to move for other passengers if they need to get by or if a handicap person needs to get by, etc. I think as long as your courteous, no one cares.
"The metro announcement really isn't that unreasonable.... Even if a train is built to handle bikes, which they should be, especially the greenline goldline style trains, there would be a limit to the amount of bikes that could safely be put on board...
That being said metro does need to get it's act together in terms of carrying bikes. You need to have a bike if you are using metro train because they don't really get you to your destination and by the time a commuter transfers to a bus you've spent an hour and a half travelling to a place when riding would save you 45 minutes of time that you'd be stuck waiting for a bus and waiting in traffic on a bus. "
Thank you. Seriously, they're not telling us GTFO, in fact, the harshest thing they said was "consider bicycling home." -AND this is in the case of a huge ride getting on, not individuals.
People in LA want everything catered to them. Yeah, Metro needs to work on bike situations, specifically space for bikes on busses and trains. But aside that, they've done numerous things that are a work in progress for bikes.
1. More bike lockers
2. Taking out seats for bikes/ handicap (remember how it was before?) (now you don't have to stand and hold your bike, just put it here and sit down!)
3. Bike to work day every year
4. Bike surveying
5. etc.
I trust metro and I believe (hopefully not putting my foot in mouth later) that they will improve bike situations.
Also- I HATE Portland's bike system.. here's another list of why
1. A couple of hooks... not as much space at all!!!! (even as if, say, a car dedicated to bikes at the end of the train)
2. You have to lift your bike to get on the hook... first of all, I'm short. Not only that but specifically that day my bike was heavy as hell with cargo (next point)
3. Cargo??? IF you have panniers, baskets, anything obviously practical on your bike- you're gonna have problems hanging your bike.
"1. A couple of hooks... not as much space at all!!!! (even as if, say, a car dedicated to bikes at the end of the train)
2. You have to lift your bike to get on the hook... first of all, I'm short. Not only that but specifically that day my bike was heavy as hell with cargo (next point)
3. Cargo??? IF you have panniers, baskets, anything obviously practical on your bike- you're gonna have problems hanging your bike."
Portland metro gets a pass in my book, because their city is pretty small you can really just bike it... and they have so much bike friendly infrastructure in portland you can really just bbike it.... but in LA... you NEED a bike to use metro rail if you are commuting across town.
I hope that Metro sees the amount of money they can make by making metro bicycle friendly.
Metro plus bikes. IT's that perfect combo to get you 'round LAâ„¢
Roadblock responding to a comment by imachynna
09.6.10 - 2:43 pm
You are right in many ways, but we have to be insistent and not take repeated, extended periods of "we're working on it" for an answer. We can't stop clamoring for changes and improvements until we see them implemented, or they won't happen. If the noise quiets down and the cyclists get complacent because "hey, no biggie, they're working on it..." then they'll work on it less and less until they're not working on it at all.
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