Agressive Drivers
Thread started by
gregb at 09.30.10 - 12:19 pm
Last Friday night at LACM a pickup truck accelerated to 20+mph on the wrong side of the yellow line into a group of riders near North Spring Street. Luckily no one was hurt as the riders scattered. Multiple police officers witnessed the incident. I spoke with two of them afterwards and they told me that the pickup driver had behaved lawfully and that anyways the driver probably hadn't expected police to be with the bicyclists and so they weren't going to do anything to him.
This concerns me for multiple reasons:
1) Are drivers legally allowed to accelerate at and intimidate other road users, or only in the case of mass rides?
2) Had the pickup struck a bicyclist occupying the lane, who would be at fault?
3) While we know that 50 bicycle riders received tickets for infractions, how many car drivers received tickets from officers on the ride?
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Driving is a PRIVILEGE!
Damn motorists! =)
^olsko*jr709.30.10 - 12:27 pm
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It is my understanding that a car can get away with intimidating a cyclist with his car and get away with it.
I know, the system is fucked.
Joe Borfo09.30.10 - 12:28 pm
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2) the car would be at fault. But nothing would happen if the car ran away. (in most cases)
Joe Borfo09.30.10 - 12:31 pm
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In that case, I'll just rest with the fact that the guy had a horrible rollover at the other intersection and lost all pride as a result.
Out-of-sight, out-of-mind.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.30.10 - 12:36 pm
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Did you mean the truck illegally crossed the double yellow? Or the riders were illegally on the wrong side of the double yellow? Or both the truck and the riders were illegally on the wrong side of the double yellow?
Either way, you heard it yourself, from police officers who witnessed the incident themselves: assault with a deadly weapon is legal as long as the weapon is a car and the victim is a cyclist.
And I guess based on what the police told you, everything is legal as long as you don't expect a police officer to see you. It's only a crime if you expect to get caught.
Wait what?
outerspace09.30.10 - 12:47 pm
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Unfortionately it seems as though Law enforcement is on the driver's side due to their "inconvenience".....LAME!! If that truck would have nailed that one officer that I was next too they would have gotten his as for attempted murder or something major..but only time will tell..if LAPD/judicial system all together does really care for our safety. Till then Ride safe my RIDAZZ!
FIXMYLIFE09.30.10 - 12:51 pm
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He also gave cyclists 'the finger'. But did the Law Enforcement care, no?
^olsko*jr7 responding to a
comment by outerspace
09.30.10 - 12:51 pm
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There were many riders around in both lanes. They didn't know what was going on as the ride had stopped in front of them. They were slowly getting out of the way of the pickup truck when he accelerated across the double yellow and into them/oncomimng riders. The riders scattered.
Afterwards a police officer on a police car PA system said something to the effect of, " get out of the road, we all know there are lots of drunk drivers out here, and if you get hit its your fault for being in the road."
gregb responding to a
comment by outerspace
09.30.10 - 1:02 pm
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So are we traffic? Or if bicycles stop in front of us do we have to immediately get out of the road even if we don't know whats going on?
gregb09.30.10 - 1:04 pm
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Hello gregb,
As you stated you guys were riding in a group correct? Did you guys have lights? Proper reflectors? Without being there and witnessing this myself, and knowing you guys, I would probably judge you guys at being at fault. Just be thankful you didn't get tasered or ran over for not having lights. The officers that night were under direct orders to hold back on aggressive moves towards bicyclists. You may not be so lucky next time.
Officer Friendly09.30.10 - 1:06 pm
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Blaming the victim again?
gregb responding to a
comment by Officer Friendly
09.30.10 - 1:07 pm
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Hi gregb,
I do not know if any motorists were cited by officers assigned to LACM. To my knowledge none were.
The motorist would have most likely been at fault if he had struck a cyclist as he can not proceed in a manner that endangered cyclists.
Depending on the nature of the persons driving it may be illegal.
I can only assume that the officers observing the pick-up truck did not interpret the drivers actions as being dangerous and thus not a violation of the vehicle code. While I can appreciate that you may have personnaly felt that the drivers actions were unsafe I can not comment on whether they were objectively unsafe.
I am inclined to believe that the group that was affected by this motorists actions would have brought this to the attention of the officers...or the supervisors that were present had they felt they were endangered. Based on the officers not taking action, no one from the group feeling threatened (or communicating that they were threatened), and this first coming up almost a week afterward I am leaning towards the officers assessment of the situation being correct.
Sgt. David Krumer09.30.10 - 1:10 pm
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Yes I had proper lights and reflectors; all four in my group had lights and reflectors; and at least 90% of the 2000 riders had lights and reflectors. I have a video camera now, and I know how to use it. We all know how those agressive moves towards bicyclists worked back in may... and at the democratic convention in 2000, when multiple bicyclists got settlement checks in the tens of thousands due to an "agressive" police response.
gregb responding to a
comment by Officer Friendly
09.30.10 - 1:11 pm
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I hope this is not Gordon. Your posts are really trolly. If you are just getting a kick out of it then that's cool. But I don't see how your attitude is helpful while Krumer is always civil.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Officer Friendly
09.30.10 - 1:17 pm
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Afterwards a police officer on a police car PA system said something to the effect of, " get out of the road, we all know there are lots of drunk drivers out here, and if you get hit its your fault for being in the road."
I was present at the rest stop and I heard the advisement that there are drunk drivers about and that for your safety you should get out of the road...at no time did I hear an officer state it would be the cyclists fault for getting hit. If I had heard such a comment I would have immediately addressed it. There were a number of cycling advocate there...I find it extremely hard to believe that they would have remained silent had this actually been said. I can not imagine that a comment like the one you indicated would only be coming out a week later.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by gregb
09.30.10 - 1:18 pm
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Yes no one was hurt, and having cars accelerate at us is a daily occurence so most riders aren't generally bothered. I brought it up to two bicycle officers at the scene but they were so dismissive I didn't pursue the matter further. I thought I had video of the incident that I would post but it didn't turn out properly. Oh well. Next month.
gregb responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
09.30.10 - 1:20 pm
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gregb needsta check the facts before throwing it out there on the table.
^olsko*jr709.30.10 - 1:21 pm
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That was my interpretation of what was said. It seemed to be implied in the officer's attitude.
gregb responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
09.30.10 - 1:21 pm
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Maybe it was because I just had my concerns over seeing a pickup truck driving through bicycles without regard for their safety disregarded by officers on bicycle colored what I heard on the loudspeaker.
gregb09.30.10 - 1:23 pm
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Hi Joe,
I do not believe that "Officer Friendly" is a police officer...or if he is I do not think he is LAPD. If he were he would know that his comments could be construed as unprofessional and be subject to discipline. He would also know that as a Department supervisor that I would be bound by LAPD policy to report his comments as they may constitute conduct unbecoming or discourtesy.
Joe, I think your assessment of "officer friendly" is correct. Officer Gordon Helper is a smart guy...and I know that he posts under a different handle.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.30.10 - 1:28 pm
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I sensed arot of hostility from a few LE during the light stops, but it was needed to get the message out there to follow traffic laws.
As for the aggressive driver, many cyclists and LE saw that the white pick-up truck guy was just impatient and acting in hostility (just like the few LE) because there was a herd of slow cyclists not getting the message to get off the road to rest.
Sometimes you need just be a little hostile.
People are just dumb out there, you know.
^olsko*jr709.30.10 - 1:32 pm
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Thank you for the correction. And I agree. I apologize for the insinuation - particularly to Officer Gordon. I was just overreacting and being trolled.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
09.30.10 - 1:42 pm
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Come on Borfo.... You know Officer Friendly is User 1 or some other fake ass punk
Foldie responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.30.10 - 1:49 pm
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I haven't been thinking very well lately.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Foldie
09.30.10 - 1:50 pm
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"...subject to discipline. He would also know that as a Department supervisor that I would be bound by LAPD policy to report his comments as they may constitute conduct unbecoming..."
Owned.
If there were riders on the illegal side of the double yellow and the truck was being blocked from traveling legally in its own lane by the illegally positioned bicycles, then I feel less angry about it. But still kinda mad. It's never okay to behave that way even if you are inconvenienced a little by a traffic snag. Boohoo, what, your Tivo won't wait for you to get home and watch your favorite episode of Dancing with the Stars?
outerspace responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
09.30.10 - 3:54 pm
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O good lord I have a lot to learn! A probationary officer that's been helping me with my internet skills filled me in on what you guys have been saying here. No Mr. Borfo, I can assure you I am not a troll. You are more than welcome to stop by while I'm on duty and meet with me. If it works for you, you can come by headquarters on Monday, Tuesday, or Friday in the afternoon. Just tell them at the front desk that you are interested in speaking to me.
And in regards to this issue addressed by gregb. As I stated, I wasn't there. I'm just going by what limited info is being provided. And as has been stated already, the officers there didn't think it was an issue either. It sounds like I would have sided with them too.
Officer Friendly09.30.10 - 5:33 pm
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Oh I forgot to give you the address,
100 West 1st Street Room
Los Angeles, CA 90012
Officer Friendly09.30.10 - 5:37 pm
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i think "officer friendly" really needs a hug............
shotgun_mike09.30.10 - 6:19 pm
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I'll just need your serial number. Thanks.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Officer Friendly
09.30.10 - 7:15 pm
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Ridazz Roulette!