HIGH GAS PRICES JACK OFF CIRCLE JERK OUIJA THREAD!
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Roadblock at 05.21.08 - 1:25 am
god I love high gas prices. ooooh yes. fuck yes!! bring it baby. lets get higher and go deeper. suck it yeah suck it. suck all that gas bitch. oh yay. oh yay. oh yay. hoo hah hoo hahaaaaaaaaaa oh oh oh fuck yes
I CAN NOT WAIT for gas prices to hit $8!!!!! I will be soooooooo stoked. uh uh uh huuuuuhuh
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I bet you one tank of gas you will delete this thread before weeks end
sexy05.21.08 - 1:30 am
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I love that the high gas prices have provoked a long overdue awaking that we don't need giant SUVs and Super-Duty pick-ups....
Unfortunately, my girl and I share her 4runner (bought eight years ago living in the snowy hills of New Hampshire). And gas prices are going to put a major sting in our road trip vacation this summer to Oregon. It's going to cost over $200 each way, not including side trips.
So I'm kinda mixed on gas prices. Despite the personal pain, I guess I do overall think it's going to do more good than bad. Get more small cars on the road and hopefully get more bikes on the road.
- j
0gravity05.21.08 - 9:53 am
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Thing I going to miss the most when prices makes driving unaffordable is Wolfpack Hustle. I've cut down on MR rides but still try to make it out to the WPH. I'd still be riding though, I was riding before MR and will be riding long after it's gone. I hope when cycling becomes a necessity that it will still be fun.
It's time to get back to MTB, there's a trail head across the street from my house and Chino Hills State Park is two miles away. Carbon Canyon, a popular roadie route, is just behind my house. For me the only thing that will miss is riding in LA. I don't even drive to work, I work from home.
sc_nomad05.21.08 - 10:11 am
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Seems like fuel prices have been too cheap, for too long for anyone to really put forth any alternative-powered public and personal transportion systems.
It was always, "fuel is too cheap, we're not going to make any money off your new creation, fuck off!!"
Now those same people who discounted electric vehicles and other alternative-energy transportation ideas are sweating bullets.
Hopefully, everyone will learn their lesson after this shocker and get their shit together.
I mean do we really have to wait until there's some type of riot?
bentstrider05.21.08 - 10:19 am
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a Smart Car could fix your woes SC.
oooh yes oooooh come here ya lil smart car. you fit me real TIGHT!
Roadblock05.21.08 - 10:20 am
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I've got a economy car that makes getting around affordable. . It'll be a while before I stop coming to WPH. As a last resort, I can find a way to rig a bike rack on a Vespa but the long trek back home is going to suck.
sc_nomad05.21.08 - 10:27 am
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I still pay @ 2.60 for natural gas.
don't get limp though...
Joe Borfo05.21.08 - 10:34 am
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Can we get our fluffa up in this thread plz?
kyber05.21.08 - 10:36 am
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Too bad those high prices still mean windfall profits for oil companies rather than tax revenue for public use.
theroyalacademy05.21.08 - 10:45 am
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We could all start building bike carzz at BikeRoWave build days. It could become it's own category at the next drag race...
jericho1ne05.21.08 - 10:54 am
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In general it's nice to see gas prices rise but I'm definitely not going to be able to fuck around in the middle of nowhere as much:
toweliesbong05.21.08 - 11:25 am
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@toweliesbong
-If I were you, I'd just keep the car around specifically for that purpose.
Utilize your bike as your everyday vehicle.
bentstrider05.21.08 - 11:47 am
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As prices climb, traffic snarls and more of us take to the road .. many frustrated drivers will ignorantly see us as the problem. As we motor past them powered by the relatively stable markets of beer and pizza. Some will be apt to feel jealous and frustrated.
Be cautious of road rage.
Gasoline addicts suddenly facing barriers between them and their fix, may experience serious withdrawal syndromes, like anger, frustration, and erratic driving. Please be cautious of such drivers as they often tend to be irrational and dangerously aggressive.
It may be a long hot summer.
trickmilla05.21.08 - 11:50 am
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@ trickmilla. unfortunately you are probably right. the sick fucks on the road will only get sicker as the prices rise along with the summer heat and we ride traffic-less, in a cool breeze, and at no cost.
indigis05.21.08 - 12:08 pm
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"If I were you, I'd just keep the car around specifically for that purpose.
Utilize your bike as your everyday vehicle."
Yep, that's why I haven't sold it yet. But I could always rent something if I wanted to head out there.
toweliesbong05.21.08 - 12:16 pm
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0gravity,
when are you planning on heading to and from oregon?
i have items that i need to move down here from a storage unit in portland, (like a bass guitar, compact sewing machine and my mac computer (it's one of the smaller ones).
i could throw down some money for gas if you could move some of my stuff down for me. just something to think about.
i'm actually thinking about going up there for about 3 weeks myself. i figured out that it would almost cost close to the same to drive as it would to fly up, roughly $280. if i was travelling with someone else then it would be worth it.
deboRAWR05.21.08 - 12:54 pm
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I'm struggling with it. Where the oil goes, so does the economy. Food prices are going up and it's going to get tougher. Pizza's pretty stable, I heard.
pedal_power05.21.08 - 12:54 pm
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im ready for the total collapse of organized society
im talking mass panic, people eating eachother's throats out, bodies everywhere, while mushroom clouds blossom in the distance.
hartwick, youre a pussy05.21.08 - 12:57 pm
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seriously guise,
the future is a really great place, I think you're gonna like it a lot.
e-rock05.21.08 - 1:12 pm
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@hartwick
Then the Goual'd step in afterwards and plunder the Earthly lands for the taking.
"ALL HAIL LORD BA'AL!!!!"
bentstrider05.21.08 - 8:19 pm
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yes. the fall of society = the rise of a new counter culture... which is pretty exciting unless you have not converted everyone you love.
as for the gas prices... i feel that it's unfair bc the city has not provided us with a great alt. tansit system (like portland or in europe)... the elderly that have not been riding, really cant.
It's unfair for the world that has developed around oil
WE NEED A REVOLUTION.
Coe05.21.08 - 9:49 pm
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A choice quote:
Options contracts betting that crude oil will exceed $200 a barrel in December have risen 46 percent this week, as futures for delivery in 2016 topped $141. That $141 is laughable so we should just ignore it. The important bit is the market is now betting on $200/bbl this Fall. Betting their money its real. Its finally hit home. I think Boone Pickens and Hirsch finally woke the bastards up.
Also: $133.31 @ 12:20. Up $4.30 for the day.
UPDATE: Oil now at $133.70, up $4.72 at 1:04 PM today. DJIA closed down 224.24 at 12,601. Impressively bad day. The DOW should rise tomorrow, as the value of the USD$ is declining again, meaning the stocks are worth more in USD$ even if their actual value is the same. Isn't inflation and devaluation fun when balanced against Mass Psychology?
Meanwhile the Senate called a meeting with oil executives to assign blame determine the cause of today's high oil prices.
. Don't blame us for prices - oil execs:
A Senate Judiciary Committee seeks answers from Big Oil execs for rising oil prices on day that crude crossed $130 a barrel.
"You have to sense what you're doing to us - we're on the precipice here, about to fall into recession," said Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill. "Does it trouble any one of you - the costs you're imposing on families, on small businesses, on truckers?"
The executives said it did, and that they are doing all they can to bring new oil supplies to market, but that the fundamental reasons for the surge in oil prices are largely out of their control.
"We cannot change the world market," said Robert Malone, chairman and president of BP America Inc. "Today's high prices are linked to the failure both here and abroad to increase supplies, renewables and conservation."
Malone's remarks were echoed by John Hofmeister, president of Shell.
"The fundamental laws of supply and demand are at work," said Hofmeister. The market is squeezed by exporting nations managing demand for their own interest and other nations subsidizing prices to encourage economic growth, he said.
The nerve...
ephemerae05.21.08 - 9:51 pm
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Blah..blahh..blahh.preach..preach ..preach...
Although I agree,I think riding a bike is a very passive personal way to make a difference and say "Im doing something"..What else do you guys do to help?
Great post to divide instead of include.
deesimple05.21.08 - 10:03 pm
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I feel very strongly, as if I remember it from the future, that this thread isn't that realistical, like it's not being real, with itself or others. Gaiz, gais?
Alex Thompson05.21.08 - 10:40 pm
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I didn't read but 3 posts deep.
People who haul shit and tow shit need Super Duty pickups...
Just because assholes from Orange drive lifted Super Duty trucks doesn't mean that all drivers of Super Duty trucks are assholes from Orange. SHIT!! Put away the animosity
Eric Hair05.21.08 - 10:46 pm
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deesimple has a poopie in the pancers?
Joe Borfo05.21.08 - 11:38 pm
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deesimple: big dog, I don't see this as devisive, I see this as ultimately inclusive. I'm excited to see gas prices go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay (teh fuck) up because I'm guessing it will bring more people out of their cars due to economics. building a constituency out of pedestrians and cyclists.
Eric: use europe as an example. I have been all over europe and I can't say there were many in shining new unscathed F350 Diesel 4x4 wompmenots rolling around everywhere.... I just didnt see it. I saw a H2 in Belgium once but that was it. over here, guys that actually use their trucks for actual real actual work dont need to drive those big silly modified 4x4 usa1 trucks. they can roll compact trucks and the few that do need it can have a small to medium sized toyota truck would 99% of the time handle it.
Roadblock05.22.08 - 12:55 am
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this nonsense again? just because ride your bike everwhere doesnt mean you are not going to be affected by higher gas prices. I dont understand why anyone would want gas prices to go up because that means the price of everything goes up. Do you not travel by plane during the holidays to see your family? Do you not buy groceries, beer, clothes or bike parts? Do you have a farm or clothing factory in your backyard? Do you think the bike parts you buy are delivered by some very skinny guy that makes a trip to China and back on his bike?
leoleo05.22.08 - 8:19 am
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Yeah yeah boyeee.
Thanks for checking it. It ain't all about hate - it's about getting something done for bikes now that high gas prices fucked with our economy.
ubrayj0205.22.08 - 8:26 am
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My stepdad recently bought a used, 7.3 liter Diesel engine to replace the busted one in his '89 F-250.
We practically built his house out in Oak Hills from the ground up.
The pickup was used to haul everything that a contractor would usually haul out and then some.
Now, another way people seem to burn up gargantuan amounts of fuel is due to this "suburban/exurban/bedroom-town" lifestyle.
A good example would be people that choose to work everyday in the LA-area, but live up where I do.
It's one thing to go there 1-2 days/week, but when you're doing that every, single day just to live a so-called, better life, then you're out of your mind.
Not only does your pocket-book get drained from filling up every few days, but you essentially begin to almost have no life when spending all that time in traffic.
And all these parents that moved up here to get their children away from gang-violence are wondering why their kids have turned out badly-disciplined anyway.
bentstrider05.22.08 - 8:28 am
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I'm very perplexed by the fact that so many cyclists make the assumption that if gas prices get high, motorists will start riding bicycles.
That is not true. You forget - PEOPLE. ARE. STUPID.
No. Even worse.
PEOPLE. ARE. APATHETIC.
Sure, they will whine and bitch and moan about high gas prices. But they will not DO anything about it. They might have a little "protest" here and there. Big deal. Who cares? That's irrelevant and does nothing to create change. There will be no revolution. There will be no change in lifestyle. They will simply shell out more and more and more money. The oil companies know this. People are too mindless to even be conscious of the fact that alternatives exist. $4 a gallon. $5. $8. It doesn't matter. Bicycles will never even enter their minds as an option.
MikeyWalsh05.22.08 - 8:55 am
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I propose a "reminder" slogan.
Something like:
Zero Gallons Per Mile.
I'd put that on my t shirt.
adamthelizard05.22.08 - 9:07 am
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@mikeywalsh
Perhaps the resurgence of fuel-lines and rationing will be enough to give most people the ass-whooping necessary to start thinking.
They were already a hard, fact of life for a short while, but then they went away.
I say if that sort of thing happens more frequently, people might look at the way we prioritize and manage our transportation methods, and get their asses into high gear.
bentstrider05.22.08 - 9:10 am
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mikeywalsh
I couldnt have said it better!
I remember when gas hit $2 bucks a gallon (a long time ago), and everyone was complaining, but there was still no change for them. No one even carpooled or sold their suv's.
But I do see MR and other party type bike rides growing in the future. With the rising cost of clubs/bars/alcohol, young people on a budget wont want to spend $20-$30 to get into a nightclub. They can easily join our rides and spend 0, and have just as much fun!
speedybrian200005.22.08 - 9:24 am
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This thread is definitely divisive and short sighted. The price of fuel will affect everything. Take the bike tires and tubes for example, have you notice the 25% to 100% increase in the last 6 months? This is nothing compared plight of millions of people around the world who live below the poverty line, how will they cope? I can appreciate how one can wish gas prices to increase to a point where everyone in LA will consider cycling, but the truth is gas prices will increase everywhere.
Try visiting a Third World country and stay there long enough to appreciate how any change in fuel prices can have an immediate effect of the economy, These countries are already dependent on mass transit, animals and bicycles for transportation; higher fuel prices can only affect food prices. Just because we want people to ride more in LA cannot justify someone else starving somewhere else in the world.
sc_nomad05.22.08 - 9:36 am
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Thank You Sc Nomad. I am all for riding my bikes and not driving, but some of you people who think that high gas prices are good should think about people who can't take public transportation or ride bikes to their jobs, and have families to support, too. As egalitarian and exciting as bike riding is, it is separate from the harsh reality that gas prices are putting a hole in everyone's wallet, rich or poor.
tallcans4tallbikes05.22.08 - 9:48 am
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Yes, high gas prices due to a high price of OIL is good for almost no one.
It would be time to celebrate if world oil prices dropped, yet the gas price here rose due to a higher rate of taxation on gasoline in America. That tax revenue could be used to improve public transportation and other services for the lower end of the economic spectrum, so the increase would not hurt quite so much.
This is unlikely to happen any time soon since: 1) oil prices are so high; 2) it would be political suicide for almost any elected official. Instead, the politicians want to CUT taxes on gasoline.
Sigh.
theroyalacademy05.22.08 - 11:07 am
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"Yes, high gas prices due to a high price of OIL is good for almost no one."
it is good for me. and good for you. you just don't know it yet.
you can go back to your tv watching, now.
indigis05.22.08 - 11:13 am
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thanks for get to the heart of the matter ephemerae
do you all get what he is posting. This is not just effecting oil prices it is affecting everything price, food, and other commodities.
These rich people with all there accumulated money our making money off the rest of us by artificially raising the price of things by betting that it will go up.
They are making money, not by their labor, or providing a service, or product. They are making money by causing the price of everything to raise. WHO IS PAYING FOR IT?
YOU AND I.
THEY HAVE MANIPULATED PRICES SO THEY CAN GET MORE MONEY FROM YOU AND I. THEY ARE BASICALLY STEALING FROM EVERYBODY ELSE.
you wouldn't put up with somebody taking your bike, or the money out of your pocket, but we are putting up with this economic robbery.
sexy05.22.08 - 11:29 am
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sexy; you, we, every gluttonous user of oil gives the oil profiteer the power you are cursing them for having. you can bemoan and blame the system for the way it is or you can stop your use of their products. that is the most direct method of protest.
do you wish things would change? try this experiment:
wish in one hand and shit in the other and see what happens first.
indigis05.22.08 - 11:40 am
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Stop or dramatically decrease the use of their product. That's the only thing that works. You gotta know that they watch the news reports about any war protest and go "excellent". "Most of those people drove to that protest". Cah Ching!
rossangeles05.22.08 - 11:47 am
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I hardly ever complain about it due to the fact that I don't use enough of it, and that I usually only buy what I know I'm going to use.
This includes fuel, food, toiletries, and any other store-bought item that I tend to acquire.
The only ones I ever seem to complain about are the people that bitch and moan over fuel prices.
Then the hippie-crates that praise alternative living, but find some way to make sure they still live comfy without anyone else knowing.
Gradual back-scaling and more simple solutions included in news reports, will definitely help the masses out somewhat.
Yes FoxNews, we already know the price shot up, how about something new to report for a change?
bentstrider05.22.08 - 12:03 pm
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Gloating about hgh gas prices is totally okay with me.
High gas prices will finally get our business leaders to re-orient themselves to scarce energy, and I look forward to that.
High gas prices and bicycle use are connected!
Here is my anecdotal evidence
ubrayj0205.22.08 - 12:30 pm
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You're all a bunch of dirty hippies.
Take a shower!
Get a Job!
And stay on the sidewalk!
Joe Borfo05.22.08 - 12:38 pm
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Reading arguments about why we shouldn't have high priced gas just leaves me shaking my head. And no, that's not up and down.
For one thing, the price of gas IS cheap. Have you bothered to look what other industrialized nations are paying for gas? We got some of the cheapest prices in the world!
Another thing I find idiotic is arguing for keeping the status quo. If you're arguing for cheaper prices, you're arguing for keeping things as they are. We are using 25% of the world's resources yet we're 3% of the world's population. You guys don't have a problem with that?
One person has not even mentioned a word about our environment and the destruction caused by burning fossil fuels. Not sure if know this or not, but the world is heading into uncharted territory. Again, you don't have a problem with that?
The world won't end if we have high gas prices, but it can end if we continue in the direction we're going. We have China and India coming up fast. Scientist have concluded we're burning fossil fuels faster than any other time in history. Our rate of burning it has increased dramatically. The rate was doubling, now it's tripling!
People think that our world will end if we have high gas prices. High gas prices to me is $10 / gallon btw. Has the world ended for the Scandinavian Countries who are paying $8 and up per gallon? They have some of the highest standards of living in Europe. It's the same with other countries that are paying high gas prices. They are surviving just fine.
The US has a looooooooong way to go before they are even close to the efficiencies of the rest of the world. The only way I see us moving in that direction is with higher gas prices. Yes there will be major national shifts in our lives. And yes it will be disruptive, but look at what the outcome would be if we continue on our path.
User105.22.08 - 12:59 pm
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"THEY HAVE MANIPULATED PRICES SO THEY CAN GET MORE MONEY FROM YOU AND I. THEY ARE BASICALLY STEALING FROM EVERYBODY ELSE. "
don't buy things then. problem solved. buy only essentials, participate in food co-ops, bicycle co-ops. this is what 3rd world countries do because it's not possible to live otherwise and this is what industrialized nations do to save energy and money.
the price of gas is already twice as much in european countries why shouldnt we have $4 worth of taxes on gas and dedicate that $4 per gallon towards building transportation infrastructure that will be required when people leave their cars. these people dont need cars. the netherlands is probably comparable in size to Los Angeles. They have an amazing national train system. it's like the metro link but it's cheap and goes everywhere at all times. people commute to work in other cities on that thing... we can do that here if there was a real tax on gas.
Roadblock05.22.08 - 1:34 pm
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I won't go down the street if I'm going to get robbed there, either
Thanks for your input, Problem solved.
You get it, good. non of what is happen effects anything else.
I'm lucky to live in a bubble, where nothing else effects me. I don't need anybody else, or anything in our society I'm going to go scavenge the side of the field for my food now, until my crop come up.
I'am a rock I'am a island.
sexy05.22.08 - 1:44 pm
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I guess my point went over your head sexy.... how about like this... europeans pay TWICE as much for gas. How do they survive??
Roadblock05.22.08 - 1:59 pm
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euros dont have to pay out the ass for healthcare like us americans do, correct? or is that just our friendly neighbors to the north?
ruinedbyidiots05.22.08 - 2:02 pm
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they pay for it with taxes of something like 50%.... BUT they are taken care of cradle to grave and have a lot of other benefits.....
Roadblock05.22.08 - 2:04 pm
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BBC World News front page tomorrow
LA workers discover they don't have a subway
User105.22.08 - 2:09 pm
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Didn't go over my head at all. I would say the point Ephereme is making is going all over everybodys head. Taxation of gasoline in Europe is common knowledge to most. Speculations market and there responsibility for increased prices of fuel, metals, and food all over the world is not known or understood to most. The increase in prices do not accurately reflect true supply and demands, speculations is what is causing the increase rise in prices.
One only way I could get away from it is to go completely off the grid . Don't pay rent (property taxes) don't have utilities, no natural gas, no electricity, no water service. Eat out of dumpster, or live off of wild foraged food. I have no plans to do any of this.
Join a bike coop, where do you think those tire I'm going to need if I want to ride my bike is going to come from. Should I just take old tires and line the inside with potato chip wrapers to avoid flats?
What if I need a part? Let say I get what I need from the co-op, through volunteering my time. If tire and parts went up 25% to 100%, it is still my time that I'm exchanging, so I'm still effected to increase my amount of labor in exchange for the item I need.
I'm still effected.
Am I suppose to let everybody else come in with Federal Reserve Notes to pay the rent and electricity for the Co-op and then I'm clean from the corrupt system. I didn't spend any money. I don't spend any money, I'm part of the CO-OP. The co-op is still going to have to spend money and raise or make that money to pay for overhead
Same thing for a food co-op, where is this water coming from to water the plants, who has the land that we farm on? and so on and so on. What about materials to farm the land.
This is not a closed system.
I don't see what a taxes on gasoline in Europe has to do with Speculation of prices in the U.S. and everywhere else.
How do people in Europe surviv?. Just like here, there quality of life is reflected in the amount of money they make. They have a completely different tax and subsidy system then in the United States. They have different enviromental, health and transportation laws. As was stated before, if you don't make enough to but health insurance, you are still covered. Different system. This is not Europe we are talking about. We are talking about the United States. It has been created differently and running differently for many years now. At one time we had cheaper food and cheaper fuel prices, that was the saving grace for us, now we don't. This is going to effect are economy and our quality of life tremendously. If it wasn't for speculation, this wouldn't be happening. . Repeat, We are not Europe
sexy05.22.08 - 3:06 pm
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I still dont see how having a real gas tax is going to throw the economy to the point where you would be living out of dumpsters LOL. having a real gas tax would coerce people out of their cars.... ok so a shipment of goods will cost a couple hundred more in fuel prices... it's not going to destroy anything it will coerce business owners to abandon big clunky gas guzzing big rigs to use train systems (the way we used to before gas became so cheap) as far as I know gas prices in the 50 and 60' was more expensive that even today when you factor in inflation. dont fret.... you wont die if there is a gas tax. you will live longer because americans wont make stupid 1/4 mile trips in their cars they'll get off their fat asses and walk or take the public transportation built by the high gas tax.
Roadblock05.22.08 - 3:26 pm
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"This is going to effect are economy and our quality of life tremendously. If it wasn't for speculation, this wouldn't be happening. . Repeat, We are not Europe"
Me -
Wrong for the most part. High fuel prices are being cause by supply and demand. There are different events that are effecting supply. The greatest being that sweet fossil fuel is getting scarcer and the oil countries are either tapped to their limits getting it out or they are pulling back and keeping prices up. Demand is getting greater with China and India needing/wanting more and willing to pay more. The US is running up it's demand too as we end up using more each year.
Sure speculators could be driving the cost up, but it's just a small fraction. They are far more reacting to other events.
User105.22.08 - 3:36 pm
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that not what I'm saying, having a fuel tax increase that would provide benefits for health, environment, and public transportation would do nothing but increase the standard of living for all of us, if spent it to do just that. That is not what I'm talking about. We don't have the benefits, that the taxation in Europe supplies for public benefits, nor do we have politician that the majority in this country are going to vote for that are talking about doing such things. We have a system by the rich for the rich. It is designed to put more money in the pocket of the rich. The rich does not want public benefits, if we had them, then he wouldn't have to buy their health insurance, or other needs or service that could be provide by the government instead of by private industry. NO PROFITS
The taxes in this country is design not to tax those who make the most.
Even with increased prices due to speculation, with taxation on profits from speculations, we could subsidies the price of things that we all use, benefit us and make our quality of life higher, such as education, health car, public transportation. No major candidate for President is talking about this or dares to, because they will get cut of from there Wall street contributors. Public commonwealth doesn't make the rich richer, private enterprise does. Less taxes mean more profit, means more wealth. The problem with that is that the slice of the pie that the majority (public) gets, is not enough to provide a truly healthily life.
Let just talk about food for a moment. The Farm Bill subsidies, unhealthy, processed food made by corn, cotton seed, and soy. It also subsidizes the meat and dairy industries. You will pay true cost for vegetables , grains and legumes that are healthy for you.
The cost for the junk food will be cheaper at the checkout stand.
You will be paying more for healthy foods, then foods that are not. The catch-22 is that you are paying for this by tax subsidies. The problem with all this is we are subsidizing things we don't want and not for things that we do want, like public transportation, education,
health care, day care, etc. We are putting over half our budget to military suspending past (interest) and present (weapons) and contracts (which cost more then if the Federal Govt hired people and did the services themselves). The majority in this country don't the amount that is being wasted, spent on this.
Maybe we are talking about two different things.
Either way high five and handshaks always
sexy05.22.08 - 3:52 pm
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I agree with user1 it's more about supply and demand and the speculation as to how much of this finite supply of oil is left in the world....
think about this: ever notice though that the OPEC nations are being drilled not by their own nationized oil companies but majority by US and British owned oil companies.... ever make ya think?
Roadblock05.22.08 - 3:52 pm
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Sure high fuel costs will affect working-class people in America in a majorly negative way...that's because they're living in an IDIOTIC, UNSUSTAINABLE SYSTEM. Many of them never walk more than from their cars to whatever air-conditioned consumption-box they're going to spend their money in, or around on the beach that they drove 100 miles to get to.
The prices of food shipped across the world will go up the most, and the market SHOULD eliminate them for many reasons.
...Locally grown is the new organic...
Our current system of Global trade in foodstuffs and semi-durable goods like clothing and bike tubes is RIDICULOUS, and should COLLAPSE for the sake of the environment and the working classes across the world.
Totally off-topic, but i love how the oil execs can only keep repeating that they need to drill in ANWR and other currently off-limits places to bring down prices...
Lance K05.22.08 - 3:55 pm
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sexy basically what you are saying is that we are married to a system that benefits money interests and that there is no hope for it to change... I tend to agree. but it doesnt mean you cant paint a picture of where things are done better. Right now, Europe does it better. In fact my aunt and uncle came to visit and I took them out sight seeing sunday and yesterday and we sat in traffic all day yesterday and even part of sunday too. it was a big fat joke and what did I have to show them? LA looks like trash... the mimes on hollywood blvd have scabies.
Roadblock05.22.08 - 3:56 pm
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By the way, i didn't mean imply that only working-class people participate in this stupid system -- the middle class is BY FAR the worst in this aspect, they just won't be hurt quite as badly by rising prices
Lance K05.22.08 - 4:00 pm
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Well, all this aside, I'm going to keep along with my trucking career for as long as possible.
Save up some money, then use it to pay for some school.
Afterwards, continue into law-enforcement, or join a railroad and become an overpaid/overskilled choo-choo conductor.
In the next 15-20 years, I picture myself chasing down bandits on a deserted stretch of highway, or off a freight train!!!
bentstrider05.22.08 - 4:02 pm
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This is more than just a class issue.
Joe Borfo05.22.08 - 4:11 pm
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Study it closer USER1, you may see that what you are seeing is the opposite way around. True price is raised by supply and demand, anything by speculation does not reflect the actual prices. We do have more oil now then ever before, why, with the increase of oil to $50 per barrel. Tar sand and heavy oil which cost $30 a barrel, just increase the amount of fuel available, because the cost sold on the market makes it profitable to process it now. When oil was $20 per barrel, it would make no sense to process tar sand and heavy oils at a cost of $30 per barrel.
Before oil reach $50 per barrel, Saudi Arabia had the largest reserves (that is light, easy to reach oil). After $50 a barrel oil, Venezula with its high concentration of heavy oil now has the largest prove oil reserves.
You may say I'm wrong most likely because you don't like the messenger who is saying so. To say I'm %100 percent on, this, I can't. I don't know anybody who can say it is speculation or higher supply and demand and be 100% for sure.
i do know that the oil rich nations have been investing great amounts of money into the the oil speculation market, making it increase the prices of future, and they are winning both ways.
The amount of in increase in demand does not justify the price of oil being $130 per barrel. Demand vs. proven reserves does not justifiy this. Maybe $60 or $70. I could be off on this always try to find more info to figurer out what is and why it is that way. All the evidence I'm seeing (and I would like to say I'm a little obsessed to why oil prices are what they are and where are they going) points to speculation.
I always try to keep an open mind to figurer out the seemly never ending puzzle. I would suggest you do the same. Isn't that what this and other forum are for.
sexy05.22.08 - 4:20 pm
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It has very little to do with class other than the fact that it fits into the rich-get-richer scheme pretty nicely...i guess that's what i was getting at but didn't express it very well.
THIS THREAD IS RLY SILLY. It's funny how we can find shit to argue about when we probably all agree on 90% of this stuff when compared to the average man-on-the-street american.
Lance K05.22.08 - 4:31 pm
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The fundamental reason that LA's transportation infrastructure is so fucked (from a bike/pedestrian/human perspective) is not simply the historically cheap price of gas - it's a planning process that has been technocratic and hostile toward notions that the streets could provide any benefits beyond moving cars around as quickly as possible.
Unless that culture changes, an increase in gas taxes may only produce more revenues to fund the dominant road-building, car-accommodating mentality. I would love to believe that high gas prices will be a wake-up call for everybody to push for more public transportation and livable, bikeable streets, but if the current popular opinion is any indication, higher gas prices just lead to lots of whining and misdirected resentment. I suspect that it will take decades to change those attitudes in LA (and America in general), if it even happens at all.
Sometimes it's fun to point and laugh, to say "we told you so" and thumb our noses at the suckers who are still stuck in their cars. Through bikes, we've found a way to enjoy the streets. We have found a way to enjoy the
streets of LA, and we are rightfully proud of that. In this city that has been designed to exclude nearly all human concerns on the strips of asphalt between points A and B, we're bringing a new life, a new purpose, a new noise. But at the end of the day, once we're done feeling all vindicated and sanctimonious, we're still part of the same human society as everyone else, and if we want anything good to come out of these high oil prices, we're going to have to do as much as anybody else to help things change.
Enjoy the streets!
nathansnider05.22.08 - 4:32 pm
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Yeah, lets all drive to Huntington Beach this weekend!
SKIDMARCUS05.22.08 - 4:36 pm
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regarding who is drilling in what country and by whom, is a complex issue. In the Saudi Kingdom. We have multinational oil companies drilling and haliburton doing maintenance. Remember we are responsible for keeping the Saudi's in power with our protection, they buy are arms, are weapons, we buy there oil, They buy
AND THIS IS WHERE IT IS IMPORTANT are treasury bonds, they buy are debt, and we pay them interest on it. They are become increasingly wealthy and owning more of our industries, because of the interest we are paying. The big factor to remember is that they buy our debt, they lend us money, It is called Petrodollars.
Venezula on the other hand, told Clinton, we will sell you all the oil you want, for $50 per barrel, and we keep that price set, but I'm sorry, all of that money stay in our control. No giving it back in exchange for treasury notes, we keep it all here is Latin America and we spend it as we see fit.
This is a big deal, that means (US govt) are not controlling the wealth still. We could buy oil for much cheaper then we are now, but it won't prop up are dollar, as when we buy oil from dictators like the Saudi's who put the money back into the US.
Much of the development of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia didn't come from Saudi Bin-ladin, (although some did) it came mainly from US construction contract companies, like George Schultz's Bechtel. Paid for by the oil they sold.
There is much more, but it is really complex, I really suggest everybody who has interest in this read up more about this. Nothing is cut and dry in international trade and finance. There are many factors involved
sexy basically what you are saying is that we are married to a system that benefits money interests and that there is no hope for it to change... I tend to agree.
The only thing I differ in your above statement Is that I do see that anything can be changed. It takes massive understanding of the issues by the majority, then and only then will the majority not accept the shaft it is getting, and change things in a way that will benefits themselves. Painting a picture the way you are about Europe is good way to see what is possible, next describing why it isn't that way will create the understanding of what has to be done to change it. Then you have people create what will be best for them.
I don't hope for change I work for it.
sexy05.22.08 - 4:43 pm
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great point Nathan.
sexy05.22.08 - 4:45 pm
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Lance, what you said is not off topic. It is so relevant to what is going on with Wealth of a few, controlling the many. In what you are talking about, food production being imported and exported causes many people around the world to starve. Instead of just having food grown locally and supporting the local economy. Thank you World Bank.
sexy05.22.08 - 4:48 pm
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rev. Dak had a good idea / theory on getting rid of traffic lights and making all intersections have stop signs. But I forget how to describe it right. It made me think though. Something about how it would discourage cars on the road and force people to shop locally and stuff...
Joe Borfo05.22.08 - 4:57 pm
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Roadblock, I hear ya.....
In Korea they have the Bongo, Bongo II and Bongo III
In about 45 variations each. Gas, diesel, 2/4 door, van, pickup, ambulance, on and on..........oh and it's made by KIA
Eric Hair05.22.08 - 5:18 pm
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Dave you may want to read up on the proven oil reserves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves
As far as the rest of what you're saying, it's not easy trying to read it with the grammatical errors, is that the speculators have more of an influence than supply and demand. Do you have any research that you can show that would point to this being a big factor in the price of gas? I would be interested in reading it.
User105.22.08 - 5:30 pm
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nah,,,sorry, i mate it allz up
sexy05.22.08 - 5:32 pm
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I think we've hit peak oil, for real.
ephemerae05.22.08 - 10:44 pm
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None of this will matter in 4 more years.
Because the Amazon Pleasure Goddesses shall return in their Vibrator Space Vessels from Planet 10 to make all Earth men their nymphomanicial Sex Drones.
Then the Goddesses shall destroy the Earth along with all the Earth women who never put out.
The only oil that will matter then is the baby oil each man will have to apply to his 4 Amazon Mistresses (because there are 4 of them for every male) each and every evening.
Sheesh. Taking the Amazon Pleasure Goddesses into account, it's silly to even discuss this topic!
MikeyWalsh05.22.08 - 10:55 pm
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Mike's right!
Just hang on for another 4 years!
There will be numerous goddesses to choose from under the family of Amazon Pleasure Goddesses. Here's just a small sample of what there will be to select from.....
Adsullata- A Celtic Goddess of Spring.
Aine- Great Goddess of ancient Ireland. Faery Goddess. Also the Goddess of the Moon.
Amatersu- Goddess of the Sun.
Anath- Goddess of Mars devoited to Evil.
Andarta- The Goddess of Victory.
Anna- Goddess of The Dark Moon, psychic work, healing, and protection.
Anu- Goddess of Fertility, prosperity, and abundance.
Aoibninn- Queen of Faery.
Aphrodite- Goddess of Love.
Aradia- Goddess of air and protection.
Arianhod- Goddess of air.
Artimis- Goddess of the New Moon, Healing and protection. As Diana she is Goddess of Mars, the Full Moon, Psychic work, healing and protection. On Earth she is Goddess of the woods and the hunt. In the sky she is Phobe, Goddess of the Moon. In the Underwold she is Hecate.
Ashera- Goddess of Love.
Astarte- Goddess of Love, and Queen of Heaven.
Aynia- A Faery Queen.
Ban Naomha- A Fish Goddess.
Bast- Goddess of the Sun.
Becuna Cneisgel- Fertility Goddess.
Beltis- Goddess of Love.
Boand- The divine ancestress of the Celtic Boii tribe.
Branwen- Goddess of Love.
Bridget- Goddess of Fire, Mars, the Moon, poetry, healing, smithcraft, psychic work, and protection.
Brizo- Goddess of the Moon, psychic work, healing, and protection.
Cally Berry- A malignant supernatural Hag.
Canola- Goddess of music.
Cardea- Goddess of air.
Carravogue- Hag of Winter.
Cebhfionn- A Goddess of inspiration.
Ceridwen- Goddess of the cauldron of life. Moon Goddess, Psychic work, healing and protection.
Ceres- Mother Earth.
Cybele- The mother Goddess.
Cliodna of the Fair Hair- Irish Goddess of great beauty.
Coventina- Goddess who was patron of the Healin Wells.
Dornoll- Amazon Warrior Goddess.
Druantia- Fir-Tree Goddess.
Eadon- Goddess of poetry and inspiration.
Eorann- Goddess of the Woods.
Ess Euchen- War Goddess.
Estiu- Goddess of war, and Birds.
Euterpe- Goddess of lyrical poetry.
Fachea- Goddess of poetry and inspiration.
Fand- Goddess of healing and pleasure.
Fea- War Goddess.
Flidhais- Woodland Goddess, ruler of the beasts.
Freia- Goddess of Love.
Gaea- Mother Earth, ruler of money and healing.
Gillagriene- In Irish legend she is Daughter of the Sun.
Gwyddynod of Gloucester- Warrior Goddesses.
Hathor- Egyptian Goddess of the Moon.
Hebe- Goddess of healing, youth, and beauty.
Hecate- Goddess of the Dark Moon, and the Underworld. Destroys all she protects, Tripple Goddess, Goddess of crossroads and witches
Hera- Queen of the Heavens.
Hestia- Goddess of fire.
Hygenia- Goddess of health and healing.
Ilat- Goddess of the Sun.
Inanna- Goddes of Venus and fetility. Some say she is Goddess of the Moon.
Iseult- Goddess conected with healing.
Ishtar- Mother Goddess of love and fertility.
Isis- Moon Goddess.
Kali- East Indian Goddess of fire, birth, and destruction.
Lachesis- One of the three fates, she rolls the thread of mortal lives.
Latiaran- A Harvest Goddess.
Leanan-Sidhe- Mistress of peace; spirit of life.
Levenah- Moon Goddess.
Liban- Irish Goddess of healing and pleasure.
Libanie- Mermaid Goddess.
Luna- Moon Goddess.
Maat- Goddess of Communication.
Mab- Fairy Queen.
Mah- Earth Goddess.
Mal- The Goddess of Hag's Head.
Mariamne- Goddess of love.
Mari- Full Moon Goddess.
Metis- Goddess of wisdom.
Mia- Goddess of love.
Mnemosyne- Goddess of memory.
Moingfhion- Goddess of Winter.
Morgan le Fay- She is derived from an earlier Goddess of Fate-Fatta Morgana.
Moirae- Are the three Fates bearing mortal Fate.
Morrigan- Goddess of War.
Muireartach- Goddess of the stormy sea.
Munanna- Bird Goddess.
Nair- Fertility and Earth Goddess.
Nessa- Warrior Goddess.
Niamh- Goddess of great beauty.
Nike- Goddess of victory.
Nimue- New Moon Goddess.
Nuit- Goddess of air, Heavens, her animal representation is a cat.
Pasiphae- Moon Goddess, she rules dreams.
Pele- Goddess of fire.
Persephone- Earth Goddess.
Phobe- Moon Goddess.
Pomona- Nymph of the gardens of fruit, she is often seen holding the Horn of Plenty.
Pritivi- Earth Goddess.
Rhiannon- Earth Goddess.
Sekhment- Sun Goddess.
Selene- Goddess of the Moon.
Shekinah- The Goddess of spirit.
Sinnan- Nymph of th river now known as Shannon.
Tea- Goddess of Tara.
Terpsichore- Goddess of dance.
Thalia- Goddess of comedy.
Themis- Goddess of equality, peace and law. She is often seen holding scales and a sword, and wearing a blindfold as a sign of the partialty of a judge. She is also known now is our Lady Justice, and is not held as a Goddess.
Turrean- Wolfhound Goddess.
Uairebhuidhe- Bird Goddess.
Urania- Goddess of Astronomy, she is often shown wearing a starred gown
Yeah I know, there's a shit load to choose from! I'm definitely going for one Thalia - Goddess of comedy!
User105.23.08 - 12:25 am
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Oh, and the second one on that list is pronounced kinda like "On-Ya" (but with more of an Ah sound instead of an O sound) there should actually be an accent on the A.
Only reason I know this is it's my sister's name...
and only then cause she gets pissed when people mispronounce it.
FuzzBeast05.23.08 - 12:51 am
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Dave,
This is kind of weird coincidence but I was just watching the news on PBS and there was a interview of the Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman. It reads in part,
"Bodman also told a House of Representatives hearing that he does not believe that rampant market speculation is causing record high oil prices that reached a record $135 a barrel. He said it is a matter of supply and demand that can be traced to essentially flat global production over the last three years. "
You can find the whole interview
here
User105.23.08 - 1:16 am
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RB
"THEY HAVE MANIPULATED PRICES SO THEY CAN GET MORE MONEY FROM YOU AND I. THEY ARE BASICALLY STEALING FROM EVERYBODY ELSE. "
yes ,yes, true ,true
deesimple05.23.08 - 1:27 am
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I'm not trying to sound like a downer, but when it comes to making others aware of the never-ending, liquid fuel burn-out, I simply don't anymore.
As mentioned here already, the majority are either too dumb, or too ignorant.
Seems the only way you could make people aware of this sort of thing and make them care is by going Rodney King on their empty-headed asses.
But, since I'm not too fond of finding myself behind a cell-door, I'll leave this one up to the engineers, physicists, chemists, and all those people that actually enjoyed school.
I'll just continue working my way up as the years move along.
That and ride my bike everywhere as seen fit.
bentstrider05.23.08 - 1:46 am
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it is true that oil producing nations regulate how much oil they sell in order to manipulate prices and profits. there are a LOT of behind the scenes type deals going down to manipulate prices for the benefit of mony interests.
Roadblock05.23.08 - 1:48 am
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oil is subject to market forces in theory and on the surface.... but there are military factors, trade agreements... so many factors.... oil has to be steady or riots go down in the streets...
Roadblock05.23.08 - 1:51 am
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great person to trust, someone from the Bush Administration. They always tell the truth about everything. Friends on Wall Street and in the Oil industry who could benefit off of artificially high oil prices, never.
Just a quick search of who Samuel Bodman is, show that this is not the only place he is saying it, he is all over the media saying so.
Who is he, he was the former CEO of Fidelity Investments. A little bit of research on Fidelity Investment admits that they do invest in energy stocks as a hedge against inflation. At what level, I don't know, but that is acceptable for a fund to diversify there investment. More stuff that is on bar with the Bush administrations policy on Energy: new energy choice, renewal, E-85fuels, of course Support for new Nuclear and Coal plants.
He is being criticized and for not wanting to open up the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which when Clinton did in 2000, it brought the price of gasoline and oil down 18%. I don't know if you realize Cheney is the head of the SPR and is constantly buying more and more oil to put in it.
Barbara Boxer along with other Democratic senators have called for investigations and do see price manipulations, but she just a politician. Not like our Energy Secretary, from the trusty Bush Administration. That fact and that fact alone, should deem him untrustworthy.
p.s.
the war in Iraq is keeping 1-2 million barrel a day of oil off the market. That just a result of Operation Iraq Liberation, not price manipulations.
sexy05.23.08 - 1:59 am
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should of read your link first USER1, it would have saved me the research time I just did, and I wouldn't of had to be redundant about the SPR. Glad to here congress has stopped Cheney from filling it up more
sexy05.23.08 - 2:04 am
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RB
I def. agree with you
"it is true that oil producing nations regulate how much oil they sell in order to manipulate prices and profits. there are a LOT of behind the scenes type deals going down to manipulate prices for the benefit of mony interests"
Roadblock
05.23.08 - 4:48 am
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Crazy how unexpected weather(higher power?) is working for the cause.Most of my co workers canceled plans to drive out for the holiday.
deesimple05.23.08 - 10:41 am
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there is another side to that story, and they all seem to be story where you have piece the puzzle together. OPEC nations decided that they would only sell a certain percentage of their proven reserve. This was under the suggestion and leadership of the Saudi's. This would keep the price stable and not bring the price down, by one country releasing more oil then the next. What happen next was the OPEC countries with the least oil started having an increase amount of oil in their proven reserves, so they could sell more oil. Each country followed, eventually the Saudi where the last to raise there stated proven reserves.
This story lead some to think that the actual amount of proven reserves are less then stated.
sexy05.23.08 - 11:45 am
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OPEC is run by the same money interests that fuck everything else up.
boycott money.
Roadblock05.23.08 - 12:09 pm
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Hummmina! humina humina-humina-humina...
Joe Borfo05.23.08 - 12:14 pm
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SUVs plunge toward 'endangered' list
Jorge Fernandez strolls across the used-car parking lot littered with dozens upon dozens of sport utility vehicles the size of small tugboats.
SUVs like these are having a tough time selling with gas prices at all-time highs.
With gas at $4 a gallon, many have sat there since last summer.
"The cars are literally just sitting, and it doesn't matter how much you sell them for," Fernandez says of the SUVs and trucks nobody wants anymore.
more
ephemerae05.24.08 - 10:35 am
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Here is the problem, we are like 19th century Opium addicts. We hate the oil companies and our petroleum-based economy, but we continue to hit the crack-pipe because there is no alternative.
The entire US economy is based on petroleum. Food, clothes, travel, entertainment, even sex. The predictions of a looming energy crisis and shortages have been prevalent for decades. Yet everyone kept hitting the opium pipe (metaphor for oil) and nobody cared.
Now our entire way of life is threatened. There is no more oil in the ground. everyone in the world is pumping out what is left as fast as they can. Yet the world demand is consuming the oil even faster.
The Russians have enough natural gas, the stuff you cook with, in Siberia to run the worlds energy needs for over 300 years. Only the Europeans use natural gas to create electricity and are converting autos to run on it. Canada's reserves of natural gas is equivalent or exceeds that of Russia. Yet the US, their closest neighbor, refuses to utilize the clean energy resource to its full advantage.
Brazil produces the largest supply of fuel alcohol for automobiles, using millions of acres of sugar cane fields. Ford, Toyota, VW and Mitsubishi produce alcohol-driven cars for the Brazilian market.
Corn must be turned into sugar, an expensive and energy-inefficient process, but sugar cane yields alcohol cheaply, efficiently and quickly. Alcohol fuel costs $2.20 a gallon in Brazil and produces no pollutants. Far cheaper than the soon to be $5.00 a gallon of gasoline.
Yes, the petroleum economy is dying. There will be many casualties. But whose fault is it? We all smoked from the petroleum crack-pipe. We all participated in the addiction and the proliferation of petroleum.
We all turned our heads, or stuck them in the sand, when over the past four decades US oil companies and their US government operatives enslaved, murdered and exploited people from Nigeria to Iran and from Indonesia to South America.
You want to blame anyone....look in the mirror.
Now that you see the problem, how will you fix it?
Riding a bike is part of the solution, but it's only the beginning.
skd05.24.08 - 12:01 pm
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and then there is coal.
sexy05.24.08 - 12:54 pm
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-->
Ridazz Roulette!
The car of the future...
Best of both worlds, heh.
dont make me angry