Thread started by studiodrome at 10.31.07 - 3:22 pm

just got hit by a car (SUV) about an hour ago... I'm almost totally fine

emotionally scarred...
my bicycle is wounded...

heading west on Venice Blvd and i was in the BIKE LANE...
an SUV made a right hand turn into me...
they're paying to fix my bike...

getting hit by cars sucks
was wearing a helmet
will probably seek revenge...




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I'm glad you are ok.



Joe Borfo
10.31.07 - 3:26 pm

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Bummer. Getting hit by a car sucks. :(

Glad you have survived!



markedge
10.31.07 - 3:37 pm

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Oh shit man! I am going to put on my hippie costume again tonight and send you lots of really groovy vibes.

Glad to hear you're OK, and they're paying for your bicycle repairs. That's about as good as you can hope for.

If it makes you feel any better, I talked to Allstate yesterday about my wreck back in June, the one where I got the pins in my shoulder, and they decided it was 100% my fault, and are basically telling me to fuck off. So now I have to get a personal injury lawyer. To fight the insurance company. Which is sort of like getting Hitler to fight Ann Coulter somehow being in the middle.

Keep us posted.



City Hobgoblin
10.31.07 - 3:44 pm

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Damn.

And I thought the dipshit yuppie turning around in a driveway who almost hit me a block from my house was bad.

Getting hti sucks.
good to hear you're ok.
get all you can from that asshole, make sure you get a good quote for the damages.



FuzzBeast
10.31.07 - 3:51 pm

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Glad to hear youre good! I like that you reported back to headquarters for a report. Thats so elite. Maybe you can do a We're All Good Ride to Scoops for Elite Car Survival Ice Cream Ride.

btw I got nothing but non-groovy vibes from this "hippie" above. Don't trust anything he grooves.



SKIDMARCUS
10.31.07 - 3:54 pm

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I think some drivers have the idea that a bike with the right of way will stop for them, just because cars are "more important" than bikes.
Unfortunatly, all we can do is look out for them as much as possible. I wear a whistle on a lanyard, but a year ago I got clipped exactly like Studiodrome did. No time to even stuff the whistle in my gob before I went down.
I know it makes me look like a geek, but I swear by my eyeglass mirror too. It has kept me out of trouble more times than I can remember.
I think it is important that all ridazz post a topic everytime this happens to one of us.
Good to know you are OK, S.D.



Creative Thing
10.31.07 - 3:56 pm

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Glad to hear you're ok SD. I hope you make this asshole bleed and bleed him for all you can! The only thing that's going to change things is when you hit them in the o' pocket book.



User1
10.31.07 - 4:00 pm

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Oh hush, Marcus. My vibes are no worse than a Funderstorm show.



City Hobgoblin
10.31.07 - 4:04 pm

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Motherfuck!!!

I'm glad you're ok drome. Venice West of the 405?

Like Marcus said - that is so elite. You are now CORE!!

Be safe everybody.





Knittens
10.31.07 - 4:07 pm

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Get back on the horse.



PC
10.31.07 - 4:40 pm

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damn those death machines!
glad you're alright



spiraldemon
10.31.07 - 4:43 pm

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...i don't know you but I hope you're good, I was gonna say that I heard from a lawyer regarding car/bike accidents that iIf you're ever driving and a situation arises where you have to hit another car, pedestrian, or cyclist. The best option (cost wise) is the cyclist due to the fact that 9 times out of 10 the cyclist is breaking some sort of law in the first place. This will make it absolutely clean for the motorist. Fucked up I know. Take care of yourself...one and all



wormser
10.31.07 - 5:04 pm

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Glad your ok.

Don't be too hasty in settling. Remember, your body will feel any accident between 2-3 days after the incident. You don't want to release them from any liability until you are medically/physically ok.

stevo



stevo4
10.31.07 - 5:07 pm

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"will probably seek revenge..."

Best idea ever. I know this guy with a sub-standard personal ethics who can probably help.



City Hobgoblin
10.31.07 - 5:19 pm

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CityHobGob_Thats the kind of ungroovy vibe that gets you run over and shoulder-pinned. Please change yourself accordingly.



SKIDMARCUS
10.31.07 - 5:23 pm

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man studio glad to hear ur alright! getn hit is no joke,i got hit twice last year, none this one thank god,,cuz its no joke ,,i m glad ur ok i woke up at ceader ceanis first thing i said was where my bike?

well do listen to stevo ,dont lettem go till u know forsure,,

btw, marcus groovy comment heheh,,



skano
10.31.07 - 5:36 pm

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just tell me who to piss on studio.sub-standard ethics?skidmarcus might be right KnobHob.ungroovie vibe!!just playing dave.i dont care what you bumfucks think o' me.lets get em S.D.!



mandingo
10.31.07 - 5:54 pm

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damn Sdrome! glad you're ok.
ice cream's on me for this one (for studio - can't afford anyone else, sorry.)



redridinghood
10.31.07 - 5:55 pm

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Glad there are no serious injuries...sorry to hear that you got hit.



tern
10.31.07 - 5:57 pm

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that sucks man.

Classic hit though. I got tagged by some douche in a prius in the bike lane in silverlake a few months after busting my colar bone.... rolled and re-fractured it. couldnt do anything because technically I was not supposed to be riding.





Urban Commuter
10.31.07 - 5:59 pm

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Drivers, insurance, lawyers, doctors...

its a mad cash grab, just let them go after it.

Get a good bicycle attorney and have him send you to the doctor within 48 hours.









Urban Commuter
10.31.07 - 6:03 pm

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So glad you are safe. This city is insane to ride in!!

I got hit last Wednesday on Venice just like that. I guess it was more of me turning with the car and then getting thrown off my bike. The dude didn't even hit his brakes to see if I was o.k

Must be hitting bikers season. Everyone watch out!!!



Fader Freak
10.31.07 - 6:25 pm

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have you guys heard of the french activist group "les degonfles"? i'm not suggesting anything, but...

http://www.phillyblog.com/philly/world/11159-french-group-deflaters-battle-suv-n-cities-their-own-ways.html



trekkie
10.31.07 - 6:40 pm

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good to hear thei're gonna pay to fix your bike... when i got hit and my bike was destroyed all i got was $120.



She-Wolf
10.31.07 - 7:20 pm

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GLAD TO HEAR YOUR ABLE TO POST, AND NOT INJURED, WHEN I RIDE, I ALWAYS THINK THEY GOING TO HIT ME, SOMETIMES I GET THE "FEELING" THAT AN AIRPLANE PART, FROM THE SKY, WILL HIT MY FRONT TIRE, AND THEN MY CHIN HIT ON THE FLOOR AGAIN, JUST MY LUCK.



eddieboyinla
10.31.07 - 7:32 pm

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Isn't this like the third time you've been hit by a car in the last year or so?



wise
10.31.07 - 7:44 pm

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Definitely glad you are alright...I haven't been hit yet although I know the day is near...



Richard_Colossus
10.31.07 - 8:01 pm

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From some1 who's been thru a windshield and more, Im glad that ur ok and that only ur bike was damaged. Hope that you will be up and running soon.



jchungerford
10.31.07 - 8:42 pm

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Glad you're okay, I know how you feel dude.
Let's just say, no sleep, and heavy-ass rigs make a bad combination.
So, in that case, do as PC from Lake Placid says.
Get back on the mighty steed and make that metal spin!!!



bentstrider
10.31.07 - 8:55 pm

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FUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKK

dude Matt from Wolfpack got hit too. hit and run stitches in the head type deal... all these fucking hits are crazy shit!!


question were you hit at night or during the daylight?


I'm saying to everyone. get the minewt nightrider light. that one that is so annoyingly bright that cars dont know what the fuck you are..... it's $150 and it says dont aim it at eye level of motorists in the instructions... which means... do just that!

hope you recover soon mr drome....



Roadblock
10.31.07 - 9:18 pm

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Oh bummer...

Hope your shutter finger is OK...get better soon (and your bike, too)



alicestrong
10.31.07 - 9:55 pm

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I agree with RB. I bike comute through Brea Canyon at night on the way home. I recently got my minewt back (from Borfo--thanks again) from when I left it in Portland. With the light, the close calls have reduced down to zero, so far.

A friend of mine just got a minewt, and the price has gone up to like $170-$180, I think. Still, a great investment, for sure.



tern
10.31.07 - 10:03 pm

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Roadblock, I've been thinking about getting that light but a couple of people said the blue-ish color balance cuts down on the contrast. I'm guessing it hasn't been a problem for you.

stevo (sorry, not trying to hijack this thread)



stevo4
10.31.07 - 10:11 pm

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Tern,
You bike up Brea Canyon Rd. at night?
I used to work in Brea and have cycled that narrow, no shoulder, cars in a big fat rush to get home road many times, but never at night! You need the badest, brightest red flasher too, buddy.
Everybody take care out there.



Creative Thing
10.31.07 - 10:11 pm

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Yeah, creative thing--no other way to get home.....I'm using multiple blinkies.

And--not trying to hijack the thread, either.

I hope youre back in business as soon as possible Studiodrome.



tern
10.31.07 - 10:18 pm

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Well, due to my recent job-change, I've earned a relatively safe commute of 3.5 miles each way.
I acquired from PDX, a Cateye triple-LED for the front, and one of those BlackBurn Taillights that I've begun to see on many other bikes since getting mine.
I've only got that single blinker, but on these dark-ass desert roads, it seems to be quite effective.
No horn blasts or screams from anyone yet.




bentstrider
10.31.07 - 10:36 pm

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crashing makes my face sad.

hearing of people ive rode with crash makes may eyes water...

you know i thought it was just an LA thing (cars being agro and what not) but im finding something interesting out here in albuquerque (rocking 4months and be back in LA in jan) let me know what you think

so the cities actually amazingly bike friendly and save for the goat head thorns has these sweet bike paths that connect most of the city and bike routes/paths w/proper markings etc... right.

the problem is that it seems that because there is all this bike infastructure people totally trip out on you if you are on a street with no designated bike signs...like for the amount of people and traffic and what not ive never been honked, yelled at, called !@#$?, had close calls, and conversely had to inform these assholes that i have as much a right to be on the rode as them, in the past couple months, than the 15+ yrs ive ridden in LA.

so i guess what im wondering is would having an intelligent bike infastructure in LA make it any better or would motorist just get pissed off at you cause you are not riding in your designated area?

i know my gripe is totally personal but im just pissed about this. and to know that studiodrome got hit on what i believe to be a bike lane (venice blvd.) makes me wonder about this.



bicioso
11.1.07 - 10:06 am

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thanks to all the comments my friends... yes i'm back up and running i have a back-up bike so was riding around last night... and will have my road bike up and running asap...

answer to roadblock- I was riding in the daylight, on my lunch break at about 25 miles an hour in the bike lane, car passes me and right turns directly into me.... I scratch the entire side of their car and flip over handlebars...

answer to wise- yes this is the third time i've been hit in a year. 1st time by a guy getting a blow-job exiting a rent by the hour motel (hit & run) 2nd time by a drunk driving exiting the wrong way of a liquor store 3rd time in a bike lane by a dude on a cell phone

luckily i've walked away from all 3 hits... my bike has not... so far i've been pretty good at sacrificing my bike and saving myself...



studiodrome
11.1.07 - 10:24 am

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You deserved it! CARS RULE!!!!!!







I love you Studio.



I AM Traffic
11.1.07 - 10:29 am

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the Minewt is a must for any commuter. Last year's MiNewt is now the SOL. The MiNewt X2 is now even brighter. It's a great investment. In the end it makes sense, if you can save up the money for it. Rechargable batteries just make sense to me. It's a tiny unit too!



She-Wolf
11.1.07 - 10:40 am

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"1st time by a guy getting a blow-job exiting a rent by the hour motel (hit & run)"

Wait, some dude hit you in his car whilst being fellated? As in reckless road head?



City Hobgoblin
11.1.07 - 10:50 am

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Excuse me,

I'd like to briefly hijack this thread for a moment to say that, after my European experience, I am a strong supporter of the type of bicycle lanes that are installed in Amsterdam and other cities.

Yes, maybe its a pipe dream, but I'd like to see there be a concerted effort towards changing the L.A. road infrastructure to include bicycle boulevards, corner bike signals at the cyclists level, more defined and separated bicycle lanes (meaning a slightly raised red colored road between the street and the sidewalk), more 'Share The Road' signs, and bike sharrows all over.

Even though I have not been a really active person in the political realm of things, I am beginning to feel the need to do what I can to make an effort in the realm of bicycle safety and consciousness, and improving our roads to include bicycles which are needed due to overpopulation, gas prices, and environmental factors. But first, we need to ride our bikes more. We need to ride to work more. We need to not depends on our cars, and we need to encourage and inspire others to ride their bikes.

Thanks for letting me share that. I don't know how impossible this wish really is, but I intend to engage in whatever actions I can to make an effect. I'd appreciate if we could include each other in information and events that are related towards this topic.

Ride alert and safely,



Joe Borfo
11.1.07 - 11:06 am

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- studio - glad to hear that you are alright! did you wear that cool astronaut suit this halloween?



speedybrian2000
11.1.07 - 11:11 am

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F.Y.I. - Somebody just told me to look into the "L.A. Bicycle Coalition", which I know nothing about. Could someone please direct me to find out more about this?



Joe Borfo
11.1.07 - 11:44 am

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Never mind, I found it. - http://labike.org/



Joe Borfo
11.1.07 - 11:47 am

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oops I mean http://labike.org/



Joe Borfo
11.1.07 - 11:48 am

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Borfo, i'm totally into what you are saying... riding in europe and a few bicycle friendly cities in the USA is a real joy and I honestly would like to get a taste of that here.

speedybrian2000, heres my costume from this year I have the pumpkin on my head.

my best advice, watch out for happy people coming out of driveways. If you see a guy getting a blow-job and you make eye contact, watch out. trust no cars, be loud always. if you have a u-lock in your pocket don't be afraid to use it. and remember to jump off your bike and let the car run over it...

-the first thing to do after you get hit (if conscious)is memorize the license plate
-2nd thing is (if you are okay) and the person gets out of there car to see if you are alright, play dead then grab them by the throat and strangle them, then return to normal and act like it was a dream and say wow what happened...



studiodrome
11.1.07 - 12:02 pm

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I think the important lesson anyone can learn about getting hit, or someone else getting hit, is what happen, and how can I avoid that same situation in the future. I've been in collision with cars numerous times. I don't really like talking about them or bringing them up, because I think they cause some unnecessary emotions, especially with people who do not ride (i.e. family, non-rider friends, co-workers). They tend to make a bigger deal about it then it is, and ask, "if I was wearing a helmet?"

When studiodrome mention that he was going 25 in the bike lane. It reminded me of the time I was in the far right lane (almost in the gutter---that may be a reason for this incident) going 21mph and this lady made a right turn into my path and I hit the side of the van. My afterthought evaluation of what happened, had me concluded that if I was going slower(and if the driver was going slower) that the collision would have never happened, I or she would have been able to stopped, and avoid each other.

I'm not telling anybody how to ride, I've come to the conclusion, that is a personnel decision, that is best left to the cyclist. He/she knows what is best for them in each situation. I just know that slowing down, has helped me avoid near collisions.

This week I got rear ended by a mini van at a corner, with trailer in tow. The driver made a right turn, while I was up against the curb, so she could make the right turn around me. She obviously didn't see my trailer and ran into it. My afterthoughts on that was that if I had a flag or something to make the trailer more visual on the back of the trailer, she might have saw it, and not hit the trailer.

Please don't tell me I shouldn't have been where I was. I like to get up on the sidewalk when at an intersection to let the cars go first when the light turns green. I don't slow up the car traffic, and they have passed me by and I don't worry about them getting me from behind. That how I handle intersections, that what works for me where I live.

Another situation, that may be helpful for people to avoid a collision. Was at a intersection where traffic was at a standstill, so I was able to pass all the cars. I came to the intersection, a car had the clearance to make a left from the opposing side of traffic. I didn't see the car making the left, the car didn't see me coming. It was making the left, I came into the intersection at the same time. I went into the passenger side front wheel-well fender, and on to the hood. Afterthought; If I would have slowed down to see if nobody was turning left, I wouldn't have collided with that car.



sexy
11.1.07 - 12:28 pm

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studio you got me this the funnyest shit eevvvvvver ,,lol


-2nd thing is (if you are okay) and the person gets out of there car to see if you are alright, play dead then grab them by the throat and strangle them, then return to normal and act like it was a dream and say wow what happened..

act like it was a dreamm lol



skano
11.1.07 - 1:41 pm

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+1



City Hobgoblin
11.1.07 - 1:54 pm

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Man, that's just nuts. I'm glad you didn't get dinged up too badly. Inattentive drivers suck, big time.



Jeronimo
11.1.07 - 3:41 pm

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Good to see that you're OK, studio. Ice cream on me the next time we meet at Scoops, which seems to be quite often!

Borfo, I was similarly inspired by my recent trip to France. The larger goal is to get people to view bikes as a good, legitimate form of transportation that should be respected both in long-term planning and in everyday interaction.



cabhauler
11.1.07 - 5:20 pm

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I LOVE the system they have in the netherlands of seperate bicycle highways and bicycle lanes seperated by curbs. it all felt "safe as fuck"



Roadblock
11.1.07 - 5:46 pm

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@bicioso and Borfo: I've always maintained that adding separate bike infrastructure has a downside, in that car drivers will expect you to use it exclusively and will be even more enraged than usual whenever you have the temerity to use the street. That's not to say that there should be no segregated bikeways, only that they are not self-evidently and uncomplicatedly good.

@Sexy: I know you asked us not to tell you this, but you shouldn't have been where you were. If you're going to be on the street, be on the damned street. Switching back and forth between "vehicle" and "pedestrian" mode is confusing to drivers. They don't know to watch for you or a trailer at the corner...so they don't...so you get hit. Also, in the incident where you got right-hooked, if you had been in the lane instead of the gutter, the driver wouldn't have been able to pin you to the curb (unless she was deliberately trying to run you off the road, which I assume she wasn't).



PC
11.1.07 - 5:49 pm

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PC I kindly disagree with ya on the seperate streets tip...

The scenario goes like this.... The more seperated the infrastructure, the safer people feel about using it. The safer people feel using it, the more new people decide to use it. Increasing the constituency of people using bike paths. More and more people will be aware of bike riders and likely more and more motorists will have at least tried riding a bike and thus become sympathetic to them.

That's how it is in the netherlands where the car drivers are largely tolerant of cyclists because at one point or another they themselves ride bikes or know people who do. It would be a viscious cycle of... "Cyclists"

With more paths around I wouldn't need to be on the blvds....... I would gladly give that madness up.




Roadblock
11.1.07 - 7:07 pm

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Cause no matter how hard you try, you can't teach a moron in a car through words alone... They have to experience the ride.



Roadblock
11.1.07 - 7:15 pm

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RB, I must agree with PC. Separate but equal won't work.



420LaHaRR
11.1.07 - 8:26 pm

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I meant to say LOL please don't tell me.......I was actually thinking of you when I wrote it. I knew you would be the one

It works in the valley where I live. It's better for me to ride in the gutter. It's worked for me best here. It doesn't work best in other parts of the city. Like I said, the should do what they feel is right for them, they have to live with the repercussions of what may or may not happen.

Yes, of course, the trailer would have been seen if I was in the street.

On the other occasion, it was 7:50am everybody was in a rush to get to wherever they where going, (I've seen people drive differently close to before the hour in the mornings, usually because they are late), she passed me and then made the right turn in front of me. If she was paying attention, there was no way she wouldn't have not been able to see me. If I wasn't in a rush I could have stopped or turned out of the cars way.





sexy
11.1.07 - 9:29 pm

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One drawback to working the graveyard or swing shift.
You have to put up with the asshatage of those going to/from work, or going to/from party.
I even had some doofus try to follow me as I rode underneath the train tracks via/narrow underpass.
Thing was, his F250 couldn't squeeze through the concrete barriers!!!




bentstrider
11.1.07 - 9:44 pm

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"RB, I must agree with PC. Separate but equal won't work. "

why not?


first off it bicycles are not equal to cars. so it will never be a sperate but equal formula we would be going for anyway. bicycles are fully different modes of transportation just as walking is different from cycling and bicycles are not allowed on the sidewalk for the same reasons that on some roadways bicycle are not allowed such as the freeway for example.

if there was a bicycle highway like ballona creek or the orangeline to every area of LA. best believe I would use those paths rather than streets. though it wouldnt be as fun, it would also be a lot more pleasant and safe.

here dude put it this way. go to the netherlands, spend a week there at least and travel as much as you can by bicycle. go to different cites ride in the cities.... then come back and talk to be about whether their seperate and special way works.



Roadblock
11.1.07 - 10:03 pm

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hey Sexy remember that fucking toenail up in SF who pulled right in front of me? then we were mouthing off at each other and he almost hit you too!



Roadblock
11.1.07 - 10:05 pm

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Shit a gold brick!

Glad you're OK man. Sorry your bike ain't. Craziness.

Be careful out there, ridazz! People are idiots!



ephemerae
11.1.07 - 10:38 pm

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There will never--ever--be enough bike trails in this city to enable cyclists to get to the places they need to go without using the streets. Period. This isn't dense, centralized Amsterdam; it's sprawling, horizontal Los Angeles.

There will always be a need for cyclists to use the streets here. And as long as we do, our relationship with car drivers will be affected by their perception of whether we need to be on "their" streets or not. And a certain number of them will be up in arms if they see us on the streets after a number of highly publicized, segregated bike facilities have been installed in LA (it won't do any good to try explaining to them at 25 MPH that the paths don't go anyplace you need to go).

Again, this isn't an argument against putting any segregated facilities anywhere. It's a warning that segregated bike paths are not an unalloyed good: they have negative consequences that have to be taken into account.



PC
11.1.07 - 10:43 pm

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RB you sure the hell know what your talking bout,,amsterdam is the living example. Bike safety cities create a sense or bike friendliness,,Cause either the motorist himself rides or has a family member that rides or knows ridazz,,nawmean in LA we can barly get bus lanes now imagine pushing secured bike lanes. it ill nice ,im studing to be a civil engineer,i will totally try to use my knowledge of bike riding and saftey when hitting up the city for safer lanes, the movement is great and i personally never stop thanking RB for all thee work he puts in. (you rock ). studio i hope your still feeling good,,word up



skano
11.1.07 - 10:47 pm

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Oh yea, I remember that. If you didn't bring it up, I would have never thought of it again. If I had a nickel for every time something like that has happened to me, we could go back to SF on those nickels, and eat dollar Chinese food.

By the way, that was the most fun I had that weekend, rolling down Embarcadero like that. That was a blast!



sexy
11.2.07 - 12:10 am

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RB,

I suspect that this guy has forgotten more about bikes than I will ever know...

Below (wordy study regarding accident rates, lots of info/numbers/graphs):
http://www.johnforester.com/NatSafCouncil/NSC.htm

Below (kind of a grim history of the bikeway/lane in the US):
http://www.johnforester.com/Articles/Social/U.S.History.htm

Below ( psychological explanations for differences in bike programs between here and there):
http://www.johnforester.com/Articles/Social/psychnat.htm
If you don’t read anything else read the section titled ‘Differences in Psychology and Attitudes’. This is pretty much contradictory to what I’ve heard from people on this site, and since I don’t have any experience riding in Europe, I must defer to those with experience.

Below (article about bike lanes with an obvious bias against them):
http://www.bicyclefixation.com/bikepaths.htm



"Bike Lanes are designed for the convenience of motorists, not the safety of cyclists."



420LaHaRR
11.2.07 - 2:56 am

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all I can say is ride the netherlands..... I cant explain it.... it's just a gut feeling from literally riding across their country for a few days and riding across LA for the last 52 weeks straight....

I agree that there are some drawbacks to segregated bikeways, and also that this pathetic piece of trash we call LA is likely never going to get it right......... I just rode to work again today and for a minute I considered hopping off ballona creek and heading up lincoln to cut 5 miles off the commute.... but then I thought how peaceful the ride was without cars....

IF the scumbags in the city council could possibly push through the exposition line with seperate bike paths similar to the orangeline, I will be fucking AMAZED. I have a feeling they wont make it as nice but that's the cycnic in me.



Roadblock
11.2.07 - 10:34 am

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rb - check out the "artist rendition" of the expo line, from the wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Expo_Line



trekkie
11.2.07 - 11:20 am

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+1 for the Netherlands system.. I felt SO GOOD riding there!
(and I like riding in traffic :)



redridinghood
11.2.07 - 11:49 am

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I have to say that PC and Laharr are being pretty skeptical about the possibilities we could have here. Of course, I understand that it may never happen here in L.A. because of provincial minds, bureaucracy, and Big Oil. However, wouldn't you agree that if there IS a growing bicycle movement and if enough people ride and jump on the bandwagon for cyclist's rights and road improvement, then maybe something will improve?

In Amsterdam, I noticed that bikes did ride in the streets when they needed to, and I noticed people in cars being very patient with me when I had to get in the road with my big clunky tandem. I have a feeling that there may be some driving laws that still give importance the cyclist even if on the road. It seemed like it anyhow...

If L.A. or any other city in the U.S. went to the extent like most of the cities in Europe I saw had, I believe that car drivers would adapt to the changes and drive accordingly. All of this depends upon the number of people riding bicycles. Strength in numbers. Just like Ridazz... Ride On.



Joe Borfo
11.2.07 - 11:51 am

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borfo -

i can see why they are skeptical - it's nearly impossible to get the green light from some of our communities even for the expansion of public transit (red line expansion shot down by beverly hills and adjacent neighborhoods for example). being that this city is ruled by the automobile, it would take many miracles for a substantial expansion of bikeways to happen. either miracles or an economic crash and the rise of gas to $8 a gallon, which i'm secretly hoping will happen.

that said, i'm all for being active in trying to push change in any way we can.





trekkie
11.2.07 - 12:39 pm

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Joe said, "I have to say that PC and Laharr are being pretty skeptical about the possibilities we could have here."

Joe, in London the public transportation system is fantastic, albeit Londoners sometimes complain about it's problems. THe traffic in London is horrendous but remember it was a city built over 1000 yerars ago so not used to modern traffic.
Los Angeles was designed around cars and like a city not designed around them look at the bloody mess here!!! I've lived here 25yrs and I wonder where the fuck we will be in another 25yrs!!!

One of the main reasons for the good public transportaion in London is one person........ Ken Livingston, the Mayor of London, Here in America he would be characterised as a communist!!



Limeyfly
11.2.07 - 12:44 pm

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Fuck it, let's join the Party! ...



Joe Borfo
11.2.07 - 12:52 pm

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I like the new EuroBorfo!

Unfortunately the more I ride the more I am in favor of just sharrows, more education, and selective re-engineering of dangerous streets. It's way cheaper than uprooting everything to build a separate bike lane and it reinforces the notion that we are traffic. I don't want to be ghettoized into a bike lane.

Of course none of this will be possible as long as people's attitudes don't change. It's really a battle for hearts and minds. Just keep riding and serving notice that bikes are a legit way to go around. Get your friends into it. Eventually everyone will know a cyclist, and they will naturally be more sympathetic. The more people we know the more respect we'll get, it's that simple.



cabhauler
11.2.07 - 2:34 pm

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It's not even a matter of being pessimistic, although of course I am.

For the sake of argument, let's be wildly optimistic. Let's assume that within the next twenty years or so, we can talk the federal and state governments into diverting hundreds of millions of dollars into a massive, citywide program of segregated bike trails linking the various neighborhoods in the greater Los Angeles area--Santa Monica to Hollywood, Silver Lake to Mid-Wilshire, Downtown to San Pedro, Exposition Park to Downtown, and so on. Let's say that they've agreed to spend that money to acquire the land (or the rights-of-way), do the construction, install the signage and traffic control devices where the new paths intersect with existing roads, reroute other traffic when necessary, and institute a media campaign educating cyclists and drivers about the existence of this new network.

Will this network go from your house to the place where you work? Will it go from your house to your friend's house? Will it go from your house to the grocery store? From the store to your house? From your friend's house to that awesome new club with the little corner stage in the basement? No? Well, how are you going to get to these places with your bike, then?

That's right, on the street. Often on major streets with car traffic. And that's under the best plausible scenario imaginable. And--be honest with yourself, now--what are car drivers going to think when they see you on the streets after their precious, precious tax dollars have been spent on this hugely publicized network of bike highways, all for you?

Agitate for segregated bike trails all you want, but don't kid yourself that you can cop out of the fight to assert yourself on the normal streets on the assumption that some day we'll all have groovy bike paths like the Dutch. If we ever get any of those paths, they will be like bike freeways*, linking broad geographical areas. Once you get from, say, Downtown to Long Beach, you're going to have to leave the trail and ride in (gasp) traffic. At that point, you'd better hope that somebody has been agitating for your right to ride on the road with the cars.


*They'll also be boring like freeways, and have the same tendency to isolate users from the areas they pass through, but admittedly some people may consider that a worthwhile tradeoff for safety--just as the general public in the twentieth century considered these things a worthwhile tradeoff for convenience and time-saving.



PC
11.2.07 - 3:17 pm

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trekkie -
either miracles or an economic crash and the rise of gas to $8 a gallon, which i'm secretly hoping will happen.


me -
That's the key here in LA! If you see gas going to what they pay for it in Europe and other industrialized nations, then you'll see changes on a massive scale. There will be more change than you've seen in the last 40 years!

In Europe the price of gas is $6-8 a gallon. What this means to the people is that they drive smaller cars. Smaller cars puts them more in touch with others on the road. They become more aware of bike riders and peds too. Smaller cars means more room on the roads (most of the time). Try it some time if don't own a small car, small car btw means a car powered by a 1.5 liter engine or smaller.

In Europe it's not an either/or issue in regards to bike lanes, bike trails, or equal access to the road. It's a blend of all the above that makes it work in Europe.

In Europe it takes alot of practice, study, and money to get a driver's license. You must have insurance and it's not cheap. European drivers are far better drivers than here in the states,and that includes Italy! Here in the states it's almost like getting your license in a cereal box! All you have to do is get a 70% on your test and you got a license. Failed your test? Take it again the next day! Fail that one? Go back the next day! Hell who can't pass it?!?!?!?

You want change? Start sending letters to the middle east asking them to turn our supply down. It's going to happen sooner or later anyways.


Sorry SD about hijacking your thread!



User1
11.2.07 - 3:34 pm

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"either miracles or an economic crash and the rise of gas to $8 a gallon, which i'm secretly hoping will happen."

I used to wish that gas cost more, too, but sadly it will have to be even more than $8 a gallon to really get people off their cars. Also, gas prices impact the price of everything, especially food and overall transport costs. It might be fun for us to imagine SUV drivers getting faced, but the reality of it is that we'll all be paying more for everything if gas went up that much.



cabhauler
11.2.07 - 3:46 pm

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BORFO - you make me laugh and I don't even know you at all!!!

When I go for a hike or go for abike ride I don't carry a watch and when I'm finished I go on to the next thing. The probelm here in LA is we're all in such a rush to get from a 2 b. We live in a city that's massive, (have you been to any other cities in US or Europe nor so big) and therefore bicylcing is not practicle for most peole. Not to mention (Hollywood) it's not cool maaaan!!! So unless (a) we slow down a bit (b) get some Hollywood !@#$? (no offense to anyyone meant) to get all over the media riding a bicycle. Or (c) act like some of the beaurocrats in Europe and IMPOSE a law, things just won't change that much.
Having said all this, I have found riding in groups to be exhilerating and a huge high. The entertainment by far exceeds the time I could spend watching all the crap on tv, (I don't own one!!), Going to see bad movies (made by accountants not artists) or spending too mich hard earned money in bars overcharging for a beer!!

Ride on!!!



Limeyfly
11.2.07 - 3:48 pm

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Stay on the sidewalk banana man!





Joe Borfo
11.2.07 - 3:52 pm

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cabhauler -
Also, gas prices impact the price of everything, especially food and overall transport costs. It might be fun for us to imagine SUV drivers getting faced, but the reality of it is that we'll all be paying more for everything if gas went up that much.

Me -
Yeah like impact that 3,000 mile salad? Or making that .99 cent big mac a buck 25? You mean it will drive up transportation cost, that will in turn make us more localized? Is this what you're referring to?

Sure there will be changes, but the beneficial changes will far out number the ones that will hurt us. Our current system of living here in the good o' US or A is NOT sustainable, not even close!

Guess who's economy will be most affected by higher oil prices?



User1
11.2.07 - 4:27 pm

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You're right, I'm all for localizing food. That's one of the biggest issues that gets no play. But again high gas prices will not make us into macrobiotic nation, as much as I'd love that. Maybe it will happen eventually but not overnight, and in the meantime the working poor only get poorer.



cabhauler
11.2.07 - 4:46 pm

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Fine, just sharrows then.... Like that has made any difference so far.

It's that the solution PC?

I think we need to make noise, noise, noise - until they cave.

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease."

More Bikes on the street.
More Bikes on the street!
Every Lanes a Bike Lane!!

And fuck critical 'manners'. Just do what we need to do to get things rolling without any goddamn rules.

I mean, whats it going to take? I'm not going to wait 20 ears for some measly bike path. I want a BICYCLE REVOLUTION.

Open yer Mouf



Joe Borfo
11.2.07 - 5:08 pm

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i think a critical "manners" type ride in a congested area would actually make a more interesting and meaningful statement. sexy was talking about doing that kind of thing in santa monica where the cops and motorists are being complete douchebags.

you do a ride where everyone follows road rules out there, and you'll have the cops and people realizing, wait - we're even more fucked now that these bikes are stopping for red lights.



trekkie
11.2.07 - 5:20 pm

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cabhauler -
meantime the working poor only get poorer.

me -
Yeah I hear that all the time from the people that want to keep the status quo. Here, let me give you a few more, "it will hurt our economy", "it will cost us jobs", "it will make our consumption more expensive".

Like the poor isn't getting poorer today? Not sure if know this or not, but the gap is widening between the haves and the have nots for some time now. It's going to take more than the cost of oil to widen it or narrow it.

This is not unexplored territory that the US needs to follow. The route is pretty simple and has been followed by other industrial nations.



User1
11.2.07 - 5:25 pm

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I totally get that Trekkie. I'm hoping we get everyone, even the ones with a tick up their ass, to go do that idea. I have friends who don't agree with me at all that "trying to make a statement" is going to do anything at all. I think the fact that we are ALL riding bikes makes a big impact. People, cops, and officials will hate it, but eventually they will be out-numbered and have to let us keep at it.

Maybe I am talking out of my ass, but thanks for letting me at least be able to do so. (time for my"meds")



Joe Borfo
11.2.07 - 5:27 pm

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"trying to make a statement" at least says you're trying to do something. it may or may not lead to the desired result, but not doing anything for sure leads to no results.

the worst is when someone says "why bother" but then spends their life complaining about shit.

whoah...what happened to this thread?

Studiodrome - hope you're ok man.





trekkie
11.2.07 - 5:36 pm

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Coppenhagen has an amazing system for transportation and public space. It didn't get like that over night, but took many years of small changes and intelligent planning by dedicated people.

I have a copy of "Contested Streets" if anyone wants to hold a screening - might be interesting for us to watch as a group or something...

It's a great movie and really shows how cities around the world are restructuring transportation and city space for the beni-fit of everyone, and quality of life.



redridinghood
11.2.07 - 6:52 pm

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I think we all want similar things but I just wanted to expand on what would happen if gas was to get more expensive. It wasn't an excuse to preserve the status quo in any way.

In any case crude oil is pushing $100 a barrel, so we'll get higher gas prices (and higher everything prices) for sure.



cabhauler
11.2.07 - 7:19 pm

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@cabhauler.
As far as everything being more expensive if oil prices rise, then that will happen.
What I really don't see happening is the supply chain grinding to a complete halt.
As many trucks of any type you see on the road, they only consume 5% of all the refined oil in the country, so enough fuel will be set aside for them I'm sure.

But, enough of the "peakoil/optimist vs.pessimist" bullshit.
When I ride, I do it aggressively.
This in and of itself has kept me from being hit on a number of occassions here in "Lago".
What I mean by myself riding aggressively is that I keep my head up and act like a damned car myself.
Not to mention my IPod blaring either Gangsta Rap, or electronic breakbeats just fuels my intensity to the point where cars are nothing more than inanimate objects around me.
We have a few bike lanes up here in Lago, but like many places, they're located where nothing really goes on.
I thought long and hard about it and decided that I myself could do without them.
If someone wants to run me off the road, they won't succeed.
They will get a ballgag and a free trip to a downtown LA pawnshop for their efforts though.



bentstrider
11.2.07 - 7:58 pm

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PC your point is taken but your missing the bigger picture here.... Should we ever get tot the point where these shitheads in city council start pushing for bike paths and lanes and that dream scenario you describe comes true.... People will actually come out and ride. And if more people come out and ride they will absolutely use the streets to get where they need to go locally after having travelled far using the bicycle highways. That creates a greater constituency of riders. Its a vicious cycle of "cyclists"

But don't hold your breath. This country is run by money interests to the extreme. It aint gonna happen until all the oil runs out.


I sincerely hope gas hit $10 a gallon. But it won't, we'l just invade iran and venezuela.




Roadblock
11.2.07 - 8:03 pm

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@roadblock
-An invasion of Iran or Venezuela will just drive our already troubled country into deeper shit.
Right now, Blue vs. Red.
Near future, potential Civil War boundaries, except there ain't going to be no North/South to easily differentiate.

Seems to me that shit will keep getting worse before it get's any better.



bentstrider
11.2.07 - 8:17 pm

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Roadblock wrote:

PC your point is taken but your missing the bigger picture here.... Should we ever get tot the point where these shitheads in city council start pushing for bike paths and lanes and that dream scenario you describe comes true.... People will actually come out and ride. And if more people come out and ride they will absolutely use the streets to get where they need to go locally after having travelled far using the bicycle highways. That creates a greater constituency of riders. Its a vicious cycle of "cyclists"

Oh, I understand that all right. That's why I pointed out at least once that I wasn't arguing against more segregated bike paths. They will, if built, have the positive effect of getting more people on bikes. But they will also, if built, have the negative effects I described earlier: more road rage, and the same tedium and isolation from the urban fabric that freeways create. And they will not remove the need to assert our place on the streets--indeed, they'll make that even more important for the reason I described above.

If you want separate bike paths, at least agitate for them with your eyes wide open, is all I'm saying, or else you're going to be really disappointed when you get them and it turns out that they bring difficulties of their own. Above all, don't use them as an excuse to bow out of the (admittedly frustrating and difficult) struggle to get some respect on the road.



PC
11.3.07 - 12:37 am

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What we need is some type of TV show that makes bicycles look useful to the point where featured cars are minuscule background objects.
Dark Angel, Pacific Blue, or something along those lines where the main character(s) utilized bicycle travel on streets for the most part.
Then for commercials, have bicycle safety commercials along the lines of those DUI enforcement commercials.
Some snappy brand ads would be cool too.

But, that's just one of my ways of garnering a little more respect for us on the road.
That and I still watch too much TV.



bentstrider
11.3.07 - 1:33 am

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Dear Sir or Madam:

I would like to bring to your attention a television pilot script that I have written. It is entitled "Bag Full of Justice," and it is an action/adventure series about a bicycle messenger who fights crime during his non-work hours while struggling to overcome his personal demons, which mainly involve hanging around in public drinking establishments with his friends and falling down a lot. I believe that this series will appeal to the emerging "hipster" demographic while remaining attractive to the conventional action/adventure viewership cohort.

I am not a published writer, but my friends tell me I write great letters. If you are interested, I shall be glad to send a copy of the script to you or to your reader at my expense. I am not currently represented by an agent. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,
Percival Cornelius
Writer




PC
11.3.07 - 2:28 am

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Now, that one would qualify for the daytime and evening Emmy's!!
My DVR would explode!!



bentstrider
11.3.07 - 2:49 am

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Can I have a part?



Joe Borfo
11.3.07 - 10:55 am

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Goddam, nothing kills a thread worse than bike lane infrastructure talk. This is worse than that atheism thread a while back. *snore*

Hey studio, are you reading all this shit? Look what you caused because you couldn't stay up on your stupid bike.



City Hobgoblin
11.3.07 - 2:37 pm

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DAMN IT STUDIO!!!

Fuckin trouble marker!!!!



User1
11.3.07 - 3:01 pm

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I never knew Studiodrome was a "trouble-marker".
I always thought he was the one trying to make it.
Not to mark it and send in a supression brigade.



bentstrider
11.3.07 - 6:33 pm

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marker!heheh als typo



skano
11.3.07 - 6:36 pm

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hey dude, i feel your pain...i was just riding home from a play and this fucking van tried turning into a gas station right in front of me. i pulled my brakes so hard i went flying over the handle bars, bent the shit out of my shimano sti brake levers, and got my foot run over by the back wheel of the van. that fucker took off without checking to see if i was ok.

but really, i could have deduced he was about to turn even without his signal light...partially my fault. i'm man enough to admit that. but still, what kind of weasel takes off like that? coward + gas guzzler = fucktard. i wanna get in afist fight now. where's a clutch show when you need one?

damn, that reminds me...clutch is playing in the town where i go to school tomorrow night. those lucky fuckies.



trickOfshade
11.3.07 - 10:23 pm

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Let's all fight.



Joe Borfo
11.3.07 - 10:50 pm

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Lots of people getting hit, glad you made it out in one piece its a jungle out there of fucking idiots armed with cars.



Wolfrider1
11.3.07 - 11:42 pm

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I got fucking egged about an hour ago on PCH in Redondo Beach. I want to fist fight too, goddamnit. In fact, I tried to chase the pussies down (there were definitely more than one of them), but they made a quick right...I tried to head them off because I knew where they were going, but I heard one of them yell "he's coming back!" and they went zooming off in the opposite direction from the one whence they came.

Also, about ten minutes before that, some kid threw a pumpkin at me on Valley Drive in Hermosa Beach. I guess they're big procrastinators in the South Bay when it comes to Halloween devilry. Or just slow learners.



PC
11.4.07 - 1:38 am

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P.S. I'll fight you, Borfo. Cowboy poetry battle. You man enough?



PC
11.4.07 - 1:39 am

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@PC
-I would'a got their license plate # and called the cops on them.
Except I would'a said that they just kidnapped someone and they had guns.
Ride by and watch them in tears while being interrogated by the police.
What we need are hand-held EMP emitters.
Fry the CPU in the cars ECU, and the car just stalls out and becomes a paperweight.




bentstrider
11.4.07 - 1:55 am

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I'll never watch Stargate DV, but you're crackin' me up.



Joe Borfo
11.4.07 - 8:21 am

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sweet thread... i havent been on-line in a few days... its a nice example that we all give a fuck about something thats makes our own lives better. all transportation is risky business in different ways, wether you are on a bike or in a car or on a moped... for me it all starts with PERSONAL POLITICS...



studiodrome
11.4.07 - 10:43 am

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"sweet thread... i havent been on-line in a few days... its a nice example that we all give a fuck about something thats makes our own lives better."

Umm... did you actually READ this thread? It's a nice example that we all have boring opinions which we should keep to ourselves. Fuckin A.



City Hobgoblin
11.5.07 - 3:05 pm

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Starting with yours.

AAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW SSSNNNNNAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPP



PC
11.5.07 - 3:06 pm

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Yeah discussing about how to improve the transportation infrastructure just bores me to tears!!!

Let's talk about more constructive stuff like who to do our dirty work!



User1
11.5.07 - 3:18 pm

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CH is so not CORE



Joe Borfo
11.5.07 - 3:19 pm

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Hobgoblin,
you know what, i didnt read the thread... i just noticed there were like a 100 posts on it and decided to put up a beautiful closing statement.

so thanks for ruining that...

i guess i will close this thread by saying cycling is like a drug, highly addictive and should be used and abused with caution...

who will win? you or fear?

shall we sit in our caves masturbating to youtube in our safe apathetic numbing existence we call freedom? do we want to watch other people live their lives on tv? or do we want to live our own lives?

for some of us its time to get real...




studiodrome
11.5.07 - 4:17 pm

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Two Scoops for Studiodrome!

Joe Borfo
11.5.07 - 4:48 pm

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yaeh i guess this dude aint so groovy after all,,what a jerk!
f-n a
youaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwssssssshhhhhooooooooooooooLLLLLLLLLLE...



skano
11.5.07 - 5:13 pm

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I lub you guys.



City Hobgoblin
11.5.07 - 5:15 pm

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whatevz foo is was a f-u statement.i just caught it...

Hey studio, are you reading all this shit? Look what you caused because you couldn't stay up on your stupid bike.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
City Hobgoblin....



skano
11.5.07 - 5:29 pm

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We know your tricks CH...



Joe Borfo
11.5.07 - 5:32 pm

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That's the way I roll!

I'll bust you upside your ass with a goddam pumpkin!



City Hobgoblin
11.6.07 - 10:06 am

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