Ron Paul Riders
Thread started by
mkauai at 09.10.07 - 5:24 pm
I was led here by a mutual friend, Aloha.
A bunch of us Ron Paul grassroots guys are in the planning stages for a cross country trip, to support, ...the best dang candidate seen in ages ;)
We are starting at the Santa Monica Pier on Oct. 21. We want to do this on electric/assist bikes. We could use some help from folk like you guys. If anyone is interested, please vist us @
www.ronpaulriders.com/forum
mahalo for your kokua,
m
Michael Maresco
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uhh... and a ride on the 22nd or something? what's going on with all this ron paul stuff?!
what happens if the obama boys, the kucinich killers, the hillary artillery, the giuliani mafia, the thompson gunners, etc. come to raid the party!?
neverclever09.10.07 - 5:35 pm
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lol The more the merrier :) We tend to feel we have the moral advanatge ;).
I hadn't heard about the 22nd, ...cool! and yeah, us RP supporters are a passionate bunch...
Great place ya guys got here.
mkauai09.10.07 - 5:59 pm
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ELECTRIC ASSIST!?
Are you guys using Lil Rascals to get around?
ubrayj0209.10.07 - 6:01 pm
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now that... is funny!
LMAO.
No time to learn to paste images but
http://paultan.org/archives/2005/10/02/toyota-i-unit-concept/
would be nice.
By using electric assist we are hoping to get people to consider alternative transportation means as well as... stumping, if you will. Hence the name, "Crossing America for a Sustainable Future"
m
mkauai
09.10.07 - 6:36 pm
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had a look at his website and found a problem with Ron Paul..... he opposes the ICC. oh well... NEXT
Roadblock09.10.07 - 6:56 pm
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home schooling, and pro life.. sounds like a guy with an uphill battle to fight with the public schooled, bastard children ridazz...
e-rock09.10.07 - 7:13 pm
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Wouldn't know which ICC you are talking about, but chances are he's against federal meddling in states/private affairs. same goes for most arguments... I believe big gov't is out of control and that's why I support him. He really is the only anti-war, anti debt candidate
Anyway, I ain't looking to convert anyone, jus looking for some kindred spirits that might want to help out...
mkauai09.10.07 - 8:14 pm
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if he's anti war then he should be interested in upholding the values and the authority of the ICC. (the international criminal courts) read up on it. upholding the legality of the ICC would do A LOT to discourage the powers that run this country from creating foolish wars in the future and it would hold our military and politicians directly account-able for treating people humanely in current conflicts.
big government has a place. that is to regulate big powers on behalf of the common good. something our government is doing less and less every minute. big government is there to regulate big powers from bullying the small man. to be a powerful set of tools for the people to regulate themselves from infringing on each other's rights by having a strong, transparent civil infrastructure of court systems secular schooling and municipalities for all classes not just the RICH who have the tax base to support their own. oh and one other thing.... Ron Paul is a REPUBLICAN. He should run as an independant if he's really bout it bout it.
Roadblock09.10.07 - 8:26 pm
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Please. Electric assist is like welfare for your legs.
PC09.11.07 - 12:06 am
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once the lobbyists are dead and buried (never) and there is true campaign finance reform (never) the political landscape will change here in North America. I guess it will never happen.
Limeyfly09.11.07 - 12:49 am
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I agree with pc. Welfare for one's legs!!
It's like all those kids with Hummer electric toy cars etc..........nice way to develop cellulite at an early age.
Limeyfly09.11.07 - 12:52 am
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"welfare for your legs" LO fucking L!
Roadblock09.11.07 - 1:41 am
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welfare for your legs!! HAHAHAHAHAHA
Roadblock09.11.07 - 2:16 am
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"Please. Electric assist is like welfare for your legs."
Good one,
We want to do E/assist for a few reasons:
Electric assist is a great alternative to cars.
In many instances, it is impracticle to pedal.
There are plenty who can't pedal for one reason or another.
For many, any exercise is better than none.
The idea is to get more people on bikes, which is a good thing all around.
And about RP, we are not really interested in showing endurance, Its' more about showing our committment to spread the word in spite of the media's atrocious behavior.
:)
mkauai
09.11.07 - 3:03 am
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PC is like smart drugs for your brain, ya hurrdd?
kyber09.11.07 - 3:17 am
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Can't pedal? Able-bodied young men like you? Ha! You just don't WANT to pedal. Oh, no, you just want to sit around and have babies, don't you. Babies who can't pedal either. Mmm hmm. That's what I thought. Come on, pull yourselves up by your bootstraps and mash those cranks like real Americans.
PC09.11.07 - 3:22 am
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Congratulations, and Good Luck with the ride. This board/thread has just shown itself to be a minor reflection of our society as a whole, in the United States. Either I don't want to hear about politics, or if it is something I don't agree with, then what you are doing, has no validity, so please go away. I heard someone say "tell someone something they already know, and they will thank you," "tell somebody something they don't know and they will dislike you." I see how true that i, in this thread.
Realize you have already been successful with your endeavor, on this thread. People have at least looked at the candidate you are supporting, if they like the candidate or not, they have been exposed to different way of thinking. Discussion of an issue is already taking place, I hope you take the time to understand the issue, and come to your own conclusion on what position you will take on it, while keeping an open mind, for new information regarding the issue.
I admire you keeping a cool tone with people on this thread, when they are obviously insulting you for choosing electrical assist, for your ride. As always, people should do as they feel is best for their situation.
sexy09.11.07 - 2:16 pm
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Dear Sexy:
Whoooooooooooooooooosh!
(*makes overhead whooshing gesture*)
Love
Placid Casual
PC09.11.07 - 2:32 pm
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I love you more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
More then riding bike without an assist, while "yelling" at people about politics.
Happy 9/11 PC!...... everything has changed, the gloves have come off, World Domination is a go., auuhh sh*t, we are losing that one too.
One thing for sure, "the surge is not working"
sexy09.11.07 - 2:50 pm
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WANTZ WELFARE BETWIXT HIND PAWZ
NEEDS!!
Knittens09.11.07 - 3:00 pm
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big secrets revealed:
"the surge is not actually a surge"
"our troops are not properly trained in the code of the Geneva Convention"
"politicians are not elected by informed people they are elected by expensive media campaigns that inform people"
"George Bush and all politicians are only puppets of the money interests that got them where they are"
I better get outta here..... to my electric assisted bike!
Roadblock09.11.07 - 3:07 pm
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WE ALL NEED TO BECOME LOBBYISTS I.E. THE WHOLE VOTING POPULATION. THis will dillute the lobbyists and then perhaps change may occur
Limeyfly09.11.07 - 3:15 pm
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DAVE - SCISSORS!!!! AT THE PIER!!!!
Limeyfly09.11.07 - 3:15 pm
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true Limefly. unfortunately it's not in the interests of the "public lobbyists" that is the ones who support major media. the MAJOR MEDIA represents the most powerful lobbyists of all... the ones who lobby public opinion and who have the power to keep the masses in the dark about important issues. the ones who filter the news to make us "feel good" and who decide what we should be focusing on.... the advertisers the big money media owners the monied pressure groups.... all major media is supported by HUGE amounts of money. they arent necessarily interested in telling you the TRUTH about issues that work AGAINST their interests. why should they be? If I was a billionaire I wouldnt beinterested in educating the masses about my endeavors or my constituency's endeavors.... I would want to distract you from regulating me....
so the only people that find out about the truth are the ones who seek it from the hidden crevices where the truth generally lurks..... we are at the mercy of an un-informed population distracted by how fat Britney Spears is or whether Tommy Lee can beat up some other richie rich pop star. We are up against BILLION dollar voices and our government - the only thing that was supposed to protect the common good is whittled away by the very same forces.... it's a lost cause we on a slip n slide....
Roadblock09.11.07 - 3:21 pm
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CBS blocked a moveon.org ad from appearing during the superbowl EVEN though Moveon.org was paying the going rate. THINK about that shit.
think about how fucking expensive it is to buy an ad on the boob tube in the first place.... the only groups that can buy them during peak hours are the MONEY INTERESTS who are pushing their own agenda. The public airwaves are not public. they are private.
Roadblock09.11.07 - 3:41 pm
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^^^^ Word, RB!!!
It was not always thus. The present-day argument that there is "more choice now than ever" is utterly specious when it comes to broadcast news. The value of broadcast stations has grown enormously as their power becomes less fettered by silly things like some notion of a "public interest" or "public trust" even as they become more beholden to the "shareholder value" movement.
Then read about the end of
the Fairness Doctrine and try to keep your shirt on while reading such indefensible (in a world of all people created equal?!) rich-guy claptrap as "The Court's majority ... noted concerns that the Fairness Doctrine was "chilling speech...". Puke!!!
More money = more TV ads = a louder voice. True free speech suffers when it boils down to who can buy the biggest loudspeaker. But guess what -- restraing of purchase of campaign ads is considered BY LAW a restraint on "free speech"!!!
Broadcast TV and radio retain their enduring power because the purchase price is zero to the viewers and listeners. That still makes for a bigger campaign advertising platform than any user-paid-for platform such as this, the Internet.
In the bigger-than-the-Internet world of broadcast TV and radio, the notion of a "marketplace of ideas" where truth wins becomes a naive, corrupted falsehood: Money wins!!!
A good start toward DE-CORRUPTING broadcast TV and radio would be to REVIVE THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE.
Free time for campaign ads with limited time per candidate, huh? Yeah, some will shout "That a limitation on free $peech!!!" and sadly, the law backs them up on that. Hey Congress, can we get that law changed?
Shit, gotta ride my bike down from this soapbox.
OverTheHill09.11.07 - 9:52 pm
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yes sir I know about the Fairness doctrine.... only because it was mentioned a couple times on NPR - another corrupted source of media. that's the only time I've ever heard of it actually. havent heard about it from the main stream media. from what I know the Reagan admin killed it and doing so paved the way for people like Rush Limbaugh to go un-opposed on our own public airwaves.... AM radio is FILLED with rightwing filth. this stuff just appeals to the senses of the common working man. because it appeals to their sense of working hard while thinking that they are being stolen from by broke people on welfare. when in reality the MUCH MUCH bigger drain comes from the money interests who duck out of paying their fair share of taxes by hiring tax lawyers to exploit tax loopholes created by lobbyists who are hired by money interests who then pressure a congress that has been put in place by media voices supported by the same fucking money interests! what a racket!
Imagine if every corp and every rich person paid their fair share of taxes? the tax rate would prolly be closer to something like 15% for all of us! I'm sure there's stats on it somewhere.
this is probably the one issue that Ron Paul fans and the so called leftwingers share... the media does not publicize either cause and it's true message.
so basically.... WE'RE FUCKED until conditions become so ridiculous that there is a revolution or a depression. we arent nearly there yet. we all still live comfortably - even the most broke people here have a certain level of comfort above the poorest in the world.... but in 2-3 generations I'm guessing it will probably all collapse and "self correct" if history is any indication. OR maybe the government will become so weak that NONE of us have to pay for shit and eventually even the military and police / jail system / court system become privatized.... oh wait that is already happening. lol.
Roadblock09.11.07 - 10:53 pm
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Shit! How's everyone? I just crawled out from my fall out shelter. I guess we didn't get attacked huh? Man I got to do some upgrades to that freakin rat hole! I'm getting an air filter and upgrading the toilet pot next year! Good thing there were air leaks, I would probably be dead by now without it!
Looks like RB is preachin the gospel here, no arguments here! We've seen what happens with unchecked powers the last 6+ years huh? Really I don't think Bush and the half dozen or so goons around him will be doing much traveling to foreign countries after their reign of power is over. Bush has far more important things on his plate, like out of control brush.
I really don't buy the argument that we are helpless though. Sure big business runs the show, but we have just began to exploit the internet and see the potential. This will further equalize the playing field IMHO.
The air waves suck nowadays, but there's hope. I like what some people have done by taking advantage of building small broadcasting stations. http://prometheusradio.org/
Electric assist bikes - Hey, why all the hating y'all???? I have an electric bike and there are some benefits for it. It's great if you have business clothes on or you're all dressed up in your fancy duds and you got to ride 4-5 miles! I can do this where I live and NOT have to pedal. And let me tell ya, it's a life saver if you got a hell of a hangover and just want to get to point B and back without having to pedal and have your head explode! But even though I have an electric bike that's a respectable choice for those in the know, I don't use it cause I found that it was making me lazy. I would break it out too often and that ain't good. So it's been sitting there collecting dust. BTW, I used this bike for my first CM ride here in LA!!! What the f**k was I thinkin???? OK OK they did dig the loud AirZound.
So mkauai, I'm dying to hear about your electric assisted bikes you're riding across the good o' US of A. Personally I think it's a bad idea and a waste of resources, time and money. Prove me wrong! And what's this "Sustainable Future" you speak of? Is it imported from China?
User109.12.07 - 12:23 am
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there is some hope. I've noticed less and less people who watch TV.... young people.... but then again each new media has it free form period before it gets taken over.... like the Hearst newspapers that practiced "yellow journalism" et al..... at the time Newspapers were the mainstream media and Hearst owned / bought up a lot of em he was the Fox news of his day....... Now adays its Murdoch and FOX/Myspace/ Wall St. Journal and all the other parts of murdoch's worldwide media empire... the internet is a wild scene right now with little censorship. it's great... ... but money always finds a way to perpetuate itself and concentrate itself and serve it's interests... so we'll see what happens with the internets. I bet by the the time the internets becomes mainstream it will have been de-fanged or somehow diluted if it already isnt.
Roadblock09.12.07 - 1:08 am
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I don't really have anything against electric-assist bikes. I just wanted to see if anybody would LOL at my joke. I'll bet even the Ron Paul guys thought it was funny, although it was at their expense on two different levels.
I love electric assist bikes. I love the buzzing sound they make when I pass them like they're standing still...
PC09.12.07 - 3:10 am
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And since this is apparently the monthly
de facto Midnight Ridazz politics thread: I really have become pessimistic enough to sympathize with the anarchists' credo that if voting changed anything, it would be illegal. How many more "progressive" candidates are we going to elect, thereupon to watch them turn against the labor / environmental / social justice / civil liberties movements that helped them get into office?
Remember when people in LA actually thought that Villaraigosa was going to be one of the good guys? Admit it, I'll bet even a few of you thought so. With politics as we know it being such a series of disappointments, I can actually sort of see the appeal of right-libertarian candidates like Ron Paul. Not that I would vote for any of them if they were the last candidates on earth, but at least they're up front about their agenda and I fully believe that if elected, they would do exactly what they've promised their supporters they would do. Can that be said of anybody holding office right now?
PC09.12.07 - 3:26 am
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Interesting concept.
However, since most of us already ride bicycles on a daily basis, this is not the greatest medium to "reach out" to people regarding alternative transportation. Many of us already use it as our main mode of getting around. Hell, I only use my car to transport bicycles when they break down and I can't wheel them over to the LBS/bikerowave/etc for repairs. And that doesn't happen very often.
As far as electric assist goes, I don't know. While some people may be down with it, it seems like a step down from my faithful leg driven machine.
When is it impractical to pedal? I lol'ed at that one! Coasting is bad for you, especially when you ride fixed. Unless, of course, you enjoy the taste of a nice cocktail consisting of blood and asphalt.
kyber09.12.07 - 3:26 am
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it sure as hell was funny but yeah not to be mean to the Ron Paul guys... PC cracks a good one err now n then!
Roadblock09.12.07 - 3:27 am
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"I fully believe that if elected, they would do exactly what they've promised their supporters they would do. Can that be said of anybody holding office right now?"
edit:
yes all of them. they are supported by money interests and that's who they serve and answer to ultimately. sure, it comes down to votes, but the voters are being marketed to by the media, the politicians and so forth.... for instance, the clear skie act actually allows for more pollution in many significant ways.... and these laws and measures that get voted on are so complex and full of loopholes the only people that really know what they do are the ones that write them which are lawyers funded by money interests.... so most of the time a measure will say one thing or be named one thing and it will allow for the exact opposite or even something completely not talked about.... how many times has a law been passed that was supposed to do one thing but it did the opposite and the voters were clueless until it was too late after some company took advantage of the loophole? all the time. well I maintain that the ones who write the laws and measures know exactly whats up. they arent stupid, they have money riding on this. they hire lawyers to check and double check that it works for their interests and they dont tell anyone or the media is simply too comlacent, underfunded, lazy or uneducated to find out for themselves. the government lawyers are over worked under paid and under staffed to bother with half the shit and probably bought out or placed by money interests in the first place! its a fucking mess of corruption right under our noses.
Roadblock09.12.07 - 3:30 am
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"Now and then"? I'm a fucking joke machine, RB. I got more jokes than a wheel got spokes.
PC09.12.07 - 3:31 am
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I should have been clearer about what I meant by "supporters." I was referring to the people who sport the bumper stickers, do the telephone and door-to-door canvassing, and, of course, deliver their own votes to a candidate. Those supporters get the shaft every time, and that includes Republicans. For clarity's sake, let's call the people you're referring to "lobbyists" or "donors," although of course "supporters" is admittedly just as accurate a name for them.
PC09.12.07 - 3:45 am
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Re electric bikes,
here's one that interests me. You HAVE to pedal this one; it works more like a tandem.
OverTheHill09.12.07 - 6:55 am
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O T H !!!
Nice One mate!!!! Putting a positive note on things!!
Limeyfly09.12.07 - 12:11 pm
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Yes money talks and it's going to be that way for a looooooooong time. Sad but true. Doesn't mean others can't create their own world. Shit I just realized I'm on the side of playing the optimist. This is a very rarefied role I'm in right now, can I quit?
Electric bikes - Sure there's piece of crap e-bikes out there that you could just about out run via foot power, but there's some good designs too. Even for some that may not find that biking is their "thing", they might find that e-bikes are. And if they use an e-bike over a car, ain't that a good thing?
BTW, for anyone interested in e-bikes and where things are at and more importantly going, take a look at this yahoo group,
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/
Just remember, it is a rather active group.
User109.12.07 - 12:26 pm
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Congratulations, and Good Luck with the ride...
I admire you keeping a cool tone with people on this thread, when they are obviously insulting you for choosing electrical assist, for your ride. As always, people should do as they feel is best for their situation.
sexy
09.11.07 - 5:16 pm
Hi Sexy, Mahalo's (thanks). I think people were just having a little fun.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...So mkauai, I'm dying to hear about your electric assisted bikes you're riding across the good o' US of A. Personally I think it's a bad idea and a waste of resources, time and money. Prove me wrong! And what's this "Sustainable Future" you speak of? Is it imported from China?
User1
Hi user1, I am a strong proponant of alternative energy principals. "A photovoltic charged bike in every garage" would do an enormous amount of good in this frenzied world. An e-assist points the way in that direction, towards a sustainable future. (I, also, feel Dr. Paul's approach to many of the problems we face points towards the same.)
I don't really understand why you would think our ride a waste of time/etc.? I know from first hand experiance (check my profile) that people want to hear the messege I'll be bringing. People like learning about decent new things, and appreciate someone who goes out of their way to bring it to them. It won't cost all that much, and I can't really think of many better ways to spend time than to go off adventuring with a... special purpose ;)
About the bikes, that's what I was hoping to get help with. I don't have them yet. I've got money for them, but I am in Hawaii, my riding partner is in Utah, and we are starting in LA. I was hoping some people with experiance, (like yourself) might be able to help us getting set up.
We are only planning 25mile legs and 50mile days. Should be just a few hours riding a day. We will have ground support from a massive grassroots organization (Ron Paul MeetUp), so our weight will be low. Should be fairly straight forward. I figure a reliable conversion kit with swappable batts is the way to go, but people here probably know better.
Finally, I think the China issue would be nuetralized under a RP presidency, but am much more exicted about nuetralizing the IRS/IMF etc. I don't want to buy Chinese, but would if I have to. I suppose I have a Machiavellian streak ;)
Thanks for your thoughts!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interesting concept.
However, since most of us already ride bicycles ...
When is it impractical to pedal? I lol'ed at that one! Coasting is bad for you, especially when you ride fixed. Unless, of course, you enjoy the taste of a nice cocktail consisting of blood and asphalt.
kyber
Hi Kyber, I'm reaching our here for some help putting these bikes together. The people I intend to reach on my trip is every TD&H I meet, and most of them don't ride bikes. How-ever, I think a few more of them would if they saw this alternative for personal transportation.
It is impractical to pedal when wearing a suit and tie for a 1 mile ride to work, uphill, in the hawaiian sun. There are thousands of reasons. Think of the elderly; something like this is a sight better than what we saw at the top of the page
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re electric bikes, here's one that interests me. You HAVE to pedal this one; it works more like a tandem.
OverTheHill
Thanks OTH, I hadn't seen these guys yet! It looks promising
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...BTW, for anyone interested in e-bikes and where things are at and more importantly going, take a look at this yahoo group,
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/
Just remember, it is a rather active group.
User1
Thanks. Again...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and again, cool place you all have here :)
mahalo
mkauai
mkauai
09.13.07 - 4:35 am
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try this user group http://cyclesantamonica.blogspot.com
and the usergroup their cyclesantamonica@yahoogroups.com
cyclesantamonica-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
cyclesantamonica-owner@yahoogroups.com
they have had lots of things about electric and assist bike, I don't know how good or not the info is, I never read them due to lack of interest in the subject.
sexy09.13.07 - 12:25 pm
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silly as they seem, dude has a point they can work for the elderly and the disabled and also it could be considered something of a "gateway drug" towards getting people who are intimidated by excercise out of their cars and at least on the same page with the healthy people.... eventually a generation or so of this and people will lose the electric part and use all legs.... the elderly would turn out to be like most of the elderly in say the netherlands or france where old people ride bikes because they are so healthy from a life time of pedaling - and that guy in the office suit on a bike.... another common site in bike centric netherlands - wont even break into a sweat over a mile's distance. I noticed that it takes me quite a ride to break into a sweat these days. that's what happens when bodies start slappin... from doin the ride thing! oh...
Roadblock09.13.07 - 1:06 pm
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mkauai,
This is exactly why I'm saying it's going to be a waste of time, money and resources. You are, IMHO, very ill prepared for going across the country and I doubt if you have very much knowledge on e-bikes. You can't just assume you are going to do this in 25-50 mile chunks unless you have a rather large support infrastructure. A 25 mile range is being a very generous estimate for e-bikes. This is best case scenario. I suggest that you join that power-assist group on Yahoo. And they will give you a good idea on what to expect and I would bet they will end up talking you out of it. At least the way you plan on going out and spreading the gospel. BTW, the group listed above have gotten just about all their knowledge on e-bikes from the Yahoo group mentioned above. Also, before you go and buy anything e-bike related, float your suggestion on what and where to buy on the power-assist group. If I had a dollar for everyone that has come to their site AFTER an e-bike purchase complaining about the bum deal they got, I would be a rich man!
Really what would be alot better of a trip to spread the gospel is to have a person powered ride across country and breakout the e-bikes in town and show it as a possible option to the older folks. Inverriably the fat out of shape burger munchers will look at it as a toy and that's about it.
Bottom line is the e-bikes are good to avoid using your car for the short errands. They are not good for going across country.
BTW, that was a nice of you to address some of the comments directed at you. I really didn't expect that and it showed alot of class. Good luck and I wish you the best.
User109.13.07 - 1:10 pm
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mkauai,
I forgot to include some info you may find useful over there in Hawaii. There's a long time member of the yahoo group I mentioned above that would be worth at least to contact and talk to. His name is Randy Draper, very knowledgeable person there in Hawaii. He built a bike that made the Race to the Sun race over there,
http://cycletothesun.net/index.html
Randy's site is, http://www.solarnavigator.net/electric_cycles.htm
Remarkable person and an equally remarkable feat of accomplishment. A word of warning, he may or may not be in good standings with the folks at the power-assist group, those guys are a real old fashioned grumpy lot! Either way, they will know what and where Randy has been spending his time online. Because basically he knows this stuff better than anybody!
BTW, I've been away from assisted-power group for a few years now. So really don't know all the skinny on the latest. I DO know that things aren't changing that fast.
User109.13.07 - 2:31 pm
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I hate to say it, because I really hate to piss on anybody's dreams--even those of Ron Paul supporters.
But Alan is right about long-distance touring on e-bikes. The technology and the infrastructure aren't there yet. E-bikes are great for short hops in the city for people who can't or won't do the work themselves, but long distances in the boonies? Not so much. After 25-50 miles, you're going to find yourself with a very heavy, non-power-assisted bike to try to pedal to the next power station (and it takes a few
hours to recharge one of these things). The US is a really, really big country, and once you get out of the city you're going to have an extremely difficult time finding places to plug in and stand by for hours waiting for a charge.
So if you guise are serious about crossing the country on bikes for your candidate, and you really want to do it now while he's still in the running, you might seriously consider investing in some nice touring bikes (long wheelbase, steel frame, low gearing, lots of attachments for fenders and baskets and racks and panniers) and doing it under your own steam. It won't be easy, but in some respects it may be significantly less difficult than trying to push your e-bikes through thousands of miles of undulating road where charging stations are few and (very) far between.
PC09.13.07 - 3:34 pm
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"try this user group http://cyclesantamonica.blogspot.com ...
they have had lots of things about electric and assist bike, I don't know how good or not the info is, I never read them due to lack of interest in the subject."
sexy
Cool, just sent in a subscription, we'll see how hard they laugh now :D. Mahalo...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"silly as they seem, dude has a point they can work for the elderly ... that's what happens when bodies start slappin... from doin the ride thing! oh..."
Roadblock
Thanks RB, I really do believe I am going to carry a beneficial messege of choice, in both respects. I appreciate your comments on the poli side but really didn't want to get into that here.
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"mkauai,
This is exactly why I'm saying it's going to be a waste of time, money and resources. You are, IMHO, very ill prepared for going across the country and I doubt if you have very much knowledge on e-bikes. You can't just assume you are going to do this in 25-50 mile chunks unless you have a rather large support infrastructure. A 25 mile range is being a very generous estimate for e-bikes. This is best case scenario. ... Good luck and I wish you the best."
User1
...
I forgot to include ...Randy Draper, very knowledgeable person there in Hawaii. ...
User1
I am hoping these people (you are all helping me find:) feel the possibility of success is there. I certainly don't mind risking failure, but would change horses if need be and still accomplish my primary goal.
As far as preparedness goes, I have been a wanderer for years and doing outlandish things like this my whole life. I've hitchiked 3 coast on two continents, commericial fished, backpacked solo halfway through China (turned around, ugly place, there must be a more pleasant way to the Himalaya), 26,000 bluewater miles crewing on yachts, kayaking solo around South Pacific islands. ..., ... well meaning people have said the same kind of things, about all these other dreams, as you guys are. And I appreciate it... but...
I still believe this dream is in reach. There is a rather large support infrastructure. Arizona and Texas has the largest RP meetup.com groups in the country. This will gather steam and be a good time one way, or another.
You are right that I have never owned an e-bike, but a friend does and I've tried it. With 2 sets of batts I do not see 25/30 miles legs as a problem. I have always planned on pedalling actively. I imagine it will be great exercise. Would it really be more than I bargained for, if it craps out in the desert? What could really go wrong? I wonder about saddle sores ... They make flatproof(solid?) tires nowadays, dont they? I'm a rigger by trade and quite handy with tools and systems. what could go wrong???
mahalo
mkauai
mkauai
09.13.07 - 10:32 pm
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I don't doubt your drive, it's the mechanical side and logistics that I'm questioning. For any e-bike you have, you pretty much would need to take another for parts. Alot of the parts that could go wrong you're not going to find in any city, that includes LA for some parts. Hard to judge this as you don't have your bike yet, which is another big red flag. I am assuming you are planning on using two battery packs each day? What is your estimated range for mountain passes? 10-15 miles with two battery packs is not a bad estimate. That's alot of $$$ to fund a support crew doing 15 miles a day. Charging on the road would not be that much of a picnic either. You're using fossil fuel for charging the batteries on the road and more than likely coal to charge them in a town. I'm really having a hard time seeing how this is "sustainable" practice.
There's far more questions than answers on your plans. Sure you have the drive, but this is much different than the things you quoted above. You didn't mention you looked into the power-assisted yahoo group. What did you gather from looking at that?
User109.13.07 - 11:35 pm
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mkauai,
I guess I'm a little unclear on the your point/purpose. If you're all about promoting Ron Paul then it really doesn't matter what mode of transport you use as long as you're out there being seen, heard and spreading the word. If that's it I hope you have a safe trip and good luck! ;-)...
On the otherhand, if you're trying to promote a sustainable future, electric assist bikes are not your best option.
1.) They're impractical. For short trips (1-10 miles) a commuter bike with racks and an upright seating position is much more efficient. A step through frame with the appropriate gearing will be easier to balance, maneuver, park and lift if it ever gets knocked over. Besides, shit happens and getting stuck somewhere with a 40-60 lb. moped isn't practical for anyone, especially the elderly or physically challenged.
2.) They aren't really energy efficient. You're still relying on an external power source to get you where you're trying to go. Photovoltaics are a nice idea but impractical in alot of places (not everyone has year round access to the amount of solar energy we have in SoCal or Hawaii). Unfortunately, local energy production and transport is still a long way off and the fact that it is not very profitable will keep big business from investing any real resources.
3.) They're expensive. How many elderly people on a fixed income can afford a $500-$2000 bike. Not to mention maintenance and energy costs. Then there's the environmental costs imposed on us all. Unless it is manufactured locally you must consider the cost associated with getting any mechanical contraption to the end user. Shipping something overseas on a container vessel is EXTREMELY inefficient.
Basically, I believe the electrically assisted bicycle is more of a novelty than a solution (coughcoughSegwaycough). Besides, there is already a solution in action worldwide. Build small, dense communities. Having our workplaces and markets close to our residences eliminates the need to travel long distances simply to acquire the essentials for life. Investment in local businesses and economies while taxing big box stores out of existence is a start. Integrating inexpensive, efficient personal transport with clean, affordable mass transit would be nice too.
-my $.02
ps. if you have to go a mile uphill in a suit and tie, there is no more sustainable or efficient means of transport than comfortable shoes combined with a mild pace and some shade.
420LaHaRR09.14.07 - 1:10 am
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you definitely sound healthy enough to do it without the electric assist. why make it difficult? just hit the road with your analog bicycle and I bet you would get some more people to show up even if they dont care about the candidate they might just want to ride across country! electric bike will slow you down....
"Thanks RB, I really do believe I am going to carry a beneficial messege of choice, in both respects. I appreciate your comments on the poli side but really didn't want to get into that here."
why not? you are recruiting here, as a guest on these boards you should be able to answer a few questions about your recruiting activities.... you never know, there might be some people who would be converts. I will go anywhere and debate anyone for hope to convince or learn something new. You dont sound too confident about defending the guy. are we too intellectual? have you not thought it all through?
Roadblock09.14.07 - 2:08 am
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Man...I'm kind of in the middle when it comes to the e-bikes / sustainability question.
Remember that there are other issues of sustainability besides those that directly concern fuel or energy. The mess that we have made of our cities by designing them around the private automobile is one of those issues. If we could get some people to make some of their local trips on e-bikes, instead of in 3,000-pound vehicles that require a huge chunk of real estate for parking, we would at least be making measurable progress toward the day when the strip mall and the big-box shopping center are no longer the dominant design paradigm for our streets.
Meaning, we could literally start to take some of the space that is currently devoted to the parking of cars and rededicate it to use by human beings, with all of the attendant social benefits: opportunities for people to run into old friends, make new friends, have chance encounters with interesting strangers, be exposed to other cultures/languages/ways of thinking and living, and so on.
I really believe that modern urban/suburban society itself is profoundly unsustainable, in that we've rigged it so that the easiest option by far is for people to sequester themselves in their houses every night and in their cars every day. Total isolation is the norm, and so are the ignorance, suspicion, and prejudice that go along with the isolated life. Building small dense communities is a great solution to that problem--it's what we should have been doing all along in LA--but for now, we're stuck with what we've got.
I'm not saying that the stupid little e-bikes are going to solve the problem of 70 years of shitty urban design all by themselves, but then, neither are the bikes we ride. It would be just ducky if we could convince every able-bodied American to start riding a real bike for those short trips, but...well, good luck with that one. Baby steps. Whatever makes it even a little bit easier to give public space back to human beings is at least a little bit OK with me.
(I'm still going to laugh if I see any of you guys on one of those things, though.)
PC09.14.07 - 3:08 am
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PC, say it like it iz:
> I really believe that modern urban/suburban society itself is profoundly unsustainable, in that we've rigged it so that the easiest option by far is for people to sequester themselves in their houses every night and in their cars every day. Total isolation is the norm, and so are the ignorance, suspicion, and prejudice that go along with the isolated life
------
And where to isolated people go to relieve the pain of that isolation? To the "free" radio while in thier cars, and to the boob tube when in their homes. What a perfect audience RIPE for exploitation!!!
Solutionzz:
* As PC says, denser, more sustainable development {I believe this will happen here as we've run out of developable land -- downtown is going in a good direction I think)
* As this website does, get people out on their bikes where a traveling social commons is created
* Re-regulate TV and radio (Fairness Doct)
* Public transit good enough that people of ALL income levels can use it. In that regard, don't buy the B.S. that "trains are transit for rich people". The specious heart of that argument is really "lets not expand the rail so that it's big enough for everyone, let's keep it for the upper middle only as it is now". Social stratification is BAD BAD BAD for this country, but the isolated suburban house + car perpetuates it.
OverTheHill09.14.07 - 7:01 am
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i thought ron paul was cute on colbert
but cute don't cut it and neither does the bullshit "we just need to get government out of our lives" ideology.
get real. corporations are our government now, greed our default agenda. regulation via government (real democratic government) is our only defence.
but, oh my! it's soooo difficult to keep up with things, isn't it conservatives?
listen, neo-cons, if you just want to bury your heads in the sand and hold on to your country-bumkinfied platatudes fine! just keep your heads and the rest of you buried on voting day.
eric g09.14.07 - 9:28 am
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E-bikes are energy efficient. The motor is upwards of mid 90% efficient, battery charging is in the mid 90% efficient. The controller (high quality) is 80-90% efficient. So what's so inefficient about that? The dependability of electronics is not a question either. Take a look at the cars all around us. The new ones are expected to give us EASILY 100,000 miles with very little trouble or break downs. Why? Cause of the electronics, aka computers in it. Is a e-bikes more efficient than a person? Good question. I do know that about 20-25% of the energy intake of a person is used for actually movement. The rest of the energy is mostly wasted heat.
E-bikes don't necessarily need to be expensive either. A good design, like yours truly has, would use a bike that is already in production. Add a motor/controller, batteries, and a throttle control and you're good to go. The extra added weight is about 20 pounds. This would come down and performance up if you replace the lead-acid batteries. BTW, my e-bike provided over 1,500 miles of trouble free service till the batteries needed to be replaced. Really it's the batteries that is stopping electric vehicles from taking off.
Photovoltaic is nice for stationary objects like a house, not practical for a bike. The panels needed would make your bike sooooo cumbersome. That said, watching different teams progress in the annual solar car races across Australia is amazing. Nowadays their cars can easily top 100 mph on solar power alone!
Sure you're going to get alot of hucksters coming out from everywhere trying to push their crap selling for big $$$$. But done right, e-bikes would just be much like a regular bike, just without the sweating and stuff. I see it as a practical solution for the lazy ass people that would use their cars instead to deliver that DVD to Blockbusters. It would also be a possible solution to the business suited person and the elderly. Why you want to excluded these people as possible soldiers in your cause is beyond me.
Everything PC said /| I also agree with except, "(I'm still going to laugh if I see any of you guys on one of those things, though.)" I'll have to breakout my e-bike one of these days. There's nothing wrong with it, I just prefer to get some exercise instead. Surprisingly alot of people didn't even know it was an e-bike when I rode it with others.
All the points made by PC are all good point and noble, but there's one problem with it. It's never going to happen until oil gets scarce and expensive. That means when gas gets to $8-10 / gallon. Until then all we'll see is little token movements to something less car centric.
Really if I was doing this trip it would be riding on a self powered bike and push the e-bikes for the people that can't and/or won't ride a regular bike. I would rather have a fat ass lazy f**k on a e-bike than in a car any day.
User109.14.07 - 12:53 pm
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Aloha User 1- My responses from the net are starting to lean in your favor. It is looking more and more like we will be pedaling :). This is why I came here and your comments have been very helpful.
About using fossil fuels. I am a conservationist who believes that _any_ reduction in fossil fuel usage is a good thing. I especially believe that one has to be pretty moderate to relate to, and to enlarge perceptions, in the greatest variety of people. What I was going for was the fun factor, to show people that reducing fuel usage can be fun. I feel this approach is more effective than much of the fear-mongering going on...
and them yahoo guys still haven't approved me... I wonder if its the name I chose? lol
mahalo
m
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Aloha 420LaHaRR - Thanks for your comments- I certainly do believe that e-bikes are more efficient than cars. I also believe that home generation of power, through any available source, (including bio-fuel gensets), is a vastly under utilized resource. I believe things like e-bikes/vehicles can get people looking in that direction. While things like stirling engines can make it a more common reality.
http://www.sunpower.com/index.php
I believe the small dense community thing as a bit utopian and don't know the practicality of it. And, if the global mindset realized, and capitalized, on the viability of clean, home generated power, wouldn't the primary motivation for these communities evaporate? And how are small communities going to manufacture their own goods? (I actually don't have enough time to get into this and should be keeping my fingers off the keyboard lol)
mahalo :)
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Roadblock- Aloha, you make a good point about the e-bikes being exclusionary. And, about the guest thing... I truly do not know that this is the time or place for stumping.
I believe that organizations like the UN, and the ICC are fine ideas that are ineffectual, a vast waste of time, money, and resources;) The Hawaiians have been seeking justice at the ICC for years;
www.alohaquest.com/archives
Big gov't inevitably oppresses. History shows us that. The American model remains the best, most viable form of gov't to promote a sustainable future. Dr. Paul just wants to help us get back on track. And as much as Cheney or Hillary would like you to believe otherwise, The presidency is not all that powerful. As far as I'm concerned, a vote for any other candidate is a vote for continueing war and/or debt. The US cannot sustain that direction. Is there any candidate people agree with on every issue?
Individual responsiblity, now there's a winning concept... at least for me...
mahalo
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PC- Aloha, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head for my motivation in the sustainability aspect. It's a bit dissappointing that I will probably have to give up the e-aspect, but I'll get over it... I'll still talk to people about them. Maybe I'll try again before Nov 08, going a different route ;).
mahalo
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Eric- Aloha, How well has this gov't of corporations defended us from themselves in the last century? This is precisly what Ron Paul is fighting. He and his supporters are futher from neo-cons than neo-libs. The present crop of viable candidates, except for Ron Paul, are all proponants for continueing war and debt. Neo-cons, Neo-libs, they are all the same to me. Control freaks...
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"Really if I was doing this trip it would be riding on a self powered bike and push the e-bikes for the people that can't and/or won't ride a regular bike. I would rather have a fat ass lazy f**k on a e-bike than in a car any day.
User1"
Ok den... Now, what features of a traditional bike should I be considering. I had a mountain bike on Kauai, till my ex had a tamtrum :( . I prefer that style. I did the Waimea canyon trail before they shut it down, havent tried the new one lower down the mountain)
Does anyone disagree that 50miles a day should be easy for two fit men? We have the time. Could I be planning for more, should I be planning for less? I have no experiance with distance bike rides and will appreciate comments from all... (Like what kind of saddle do I want;)
mahalo nui loa
mkauai09.14.07 - 2:51 pm
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OK. In the absence of a strong government supported by the people, WHAT exactly does Ron Paul propose to reign in the corps and the War mongers? Tell me what his solution is for reigning in these powers that have lead us astray?
"How well has this gov't of corporations defended us from themselves in the last century? This is precisly what Ron Paul is fighting. He and his supporters are futher from neo-cons than neo-libs. The present crop of viable candidates, except for Ron Paul, are all proponants for continueing war and debt. Neo-cons, Neo-libs, they are all the same to me. Control freaks... "
Roadblock09.14.07 - 3:01 pm
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mkauai wrote:
I believe the small dense community thing as a bit utopian and don't know the practicality of it.
The practicality of it? It's been practiced for thousands of years all over the globe. Only during the last hundred years or so would it ever have occurred to anybody to plan a "community" in such a fashion as to routinely place people's residences ten, twenty, or thirty miles away from the nearest place to work, get food, or meet other people.
And, if the global mindset realized, and capitalized, on the viability of clean, home generated power, wouldn't the primary motivation for these communities evaporate?
No. Sitting in traffic for two hours to get from your job back to your tract "home" in a community with no sidewalks, coffee shops, or public parks (but plenty of parking lots) would be just as depressing in a solar-powered SuperPrius as it is in a Hummer. And spending your evenings playing green-powered XBox and watching
American Idol on your biodegradable television set, instead of going out and interacting with friends and talking to people, would be just as alienating as it is now.
And how are small communities going to manufacture their own goods?
Now that's a good question, although it may be immaterial. I don't think LaHaRR was talking about building small, dense communities in the middle of nowhere. I'm pretty sure he was suggesting something more along the lines of the urban-village concept for large cities like Los Angeles.
Now, what features of a traditional bike should I be considering.
Touring bike. Steel frame, long wheelbase, attachments for racks and fenders, road bike wheels with somewhat oversized (compared to racing) tires, available low gearing.
Does anyone disagree that 50miles a day should be easy for two fit men?
For two fit
people, fifty miles a day shouldn't be a problem. Especially on a proper touring bike with touring gears.
You should be thinking about whether you want to rough it alongside the road, or stay in motels (or supporters' houses) in the towns you roll through, or some of both. This will affect your packing for the trip.
PC09.14.07 - 3:44 pm
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I think it was B-rad who was telling me about it...or at least I overheard him discussing it with someone else, but apparently there is a website with listings of people who are offering up places in their homes for people who are touring the US on bikes.
I can't remember the name of it, and googling it hasn't turned up much. But I will ask him about it.
kyber09.14.07 - 3:51 pm
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"OK. In the absence of a strong government supported by the people, WHAT exactly does Ron Paul propose to reign in the corps and the War mongers? Tell me what his solution is for reigning in these powers that have lead us astray?
Roadblock
09.14.07 - 6:01 pm"
There will still be strong gov't of the people. The main difference is that the States will be more in control of local issues (which most issues are). For certain, eliminating the Federal Reserve and getting us back to using real money would do alot to stifle the power of the corps. Also the ending of ludicris subsidies (like those the oil industry enjoy) will help. Reforming taxes will help also. RP is a prolific writer and most of his reasoning can be found at
www.ronpaullibrary.org
The war-mongers will lose their incentives in an RP presidency and the terrorist types will lose their biggest recruiting tool, which is the only thing propping up the war-mongers at the moment.
I know my answers do not have much depth, but RP's at the above link do.
Thanks
m
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User1, - Yes the idea of small communities within larger communities has merit. Also, Bogota has made termendous strides in making roadways better for bikes and people than cars.
http://www.globalurban.org/Issue1PIMag05/Montezuma%20article.htm
I met the mayor responsible for this and was very impressed...
Thaks for the comments about the trip,The gearing comment is an important reminder. For overnights we will be doing a mixture of both. There is a good chance we will have a support vehicle(s) the whole way but, I cannot plan on that. I have been reading up on essentials for cross-country trips. We will carry basic survival/camping gear, tools etc,. What are the most common breakdown issues on long trips? I am thinking tire choice is quite important. I just got done with a Walk for RP where I covered 130miles in 5 days. That was alright but I was walking all day. On this trip we hope to have more time to stop and talk to people so I am hoping 50miles a day will be easily done in 4-5 hours. I have been reading about 15mph avgs for touring. Is that accurate?
BTW- the yahoo group has let me in and I am waiting for responses. One e-bike builder has agreed with you that the tech is not advanced enough yet...
again, much mahalos for your time and interest in our project
m
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Kyber- yes, I saw the list, we will be able to shower at other supporters houses
Thanks
m
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mkauai09.15.07 - 2:40 pm
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lackflag- yes he is one of the fittest coices we've had in years ;)
Joe Borfo - LOL
So, you guys had aswarm last night? How was it? a blast I bet.
m
mkauai09.16.07 - 10:13 pm
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mkauai,
I forgot that they aren't that quick at accepting new members in that yahoo group. Great to see you got in quickly. There's others that have waited for weeks. I wonder if you being a female had anything to do with getting in fast? .............................................naw guys aren't like that!
The mayor or former mayor, I forgot which now, came to LA as a guess lecturer. I didn't go but I hear it was very informative. Considering the social climate of Bogota in the last 20 some odd years, it is quite remarkable the achievements made there. There was a movie shown at one of the bike events here in LA on Bogota too.
Good to hear you have chosen to go pedal power to get across the US. I really think you'll be more satisfied after achieving this on your own rather than your first idea. Sorry but I'm not really sure about knowing where to go for the info you need. I do know there is a bicycle shop in the Garden Grove area that has been around for ages that lean heavily towards recumbents. They have alot to try out before you buy if want to go the recumbent route. I know just about every time I go in there, they have some bike that they are prepping for someone that is going cross country. The shop is,
http://www.richardscyclery.com/
Good luck.
User109.17.07 - 2:25 pm
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I hope everyone made it through the fires unscathed, I lost my partner due to smoke and general unfittness. have been doing alright on my own though, halfway through the desert...
http://ronpaulriders.com/blog/index.php?blog=3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N31qWsJrzkY
Thanks again all, I had fun and the joking around was great
GO RON PAUL (chuckle)
michael
mkauai11.4.07 - 12:02 am
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-->
Ridazz Roulette!
Fuck politics, let's have the "Tom Kruse Hoveround Ride"!
DINGO for President '08
That's us, too intellectual...
So does dubya,