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per request, new thread about EDDIEBOY'S CRASH ON C.R.A.N.K. mob 6/21/08
Eddieboy slammed really hard face first on the sidewalk near Venice and Centinela. He was totally out of it and wanted to get back on his bike and meet up with the group. His tire was tweaked badly and his eye was blown up pretty big and a small gash on his 4-head. I think he even lost a nipple from what he said. Should his new name be NIPPLE? sorta like a fat guy named Tiny? He said he wanted to find the dude that round housed him in the chest to make him fall. That's what he said happened. Something about 3 dudes on the sidewalk and one kicked him in the chest. You'd have to ask him about that for more detail. anyhow, the rim was bent back and he and a few others met up with the group i think. i bailed from there. john (last name?), lance, a SNS guy (i forgot his name), and 2 other guys rode with eddie.
too late for a long story short, but eddie didn't look good after the fall. fell really hard. get well eddie.
EDDIE was up and rolling around, albeit somewhat unsteady, by the time we put the other guy in an ambulance. I heard EDDIE's crash was bad, but that other guy bled all over the place and was mad concussed. It's time to do something about all the wrecks on CRANK MOB. I don't know what, but something. This is the 2nd time in a row I've had conversations with firemen while they strapped a rider into the ambulance.
C*R*A*N*K*M*O*B say it with me C*R*A*N*K*M*O*B
C*R*A*N*K*M*O*B say it with me C*R*A*N*K*M*O*B
C*R*A*N*K*M*O*B say it with me C*R*A*N*K*M*O*B
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C*R*A*N*K*M*O*B say it with me C*R*A*N*K*M*O*B
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sonny, my friend chris and i rode with eddie back to the start point. we drove back and eddie crashed at my place. he was pretty fucked up. he left this morning so hes okay but his eye was busted up.
I GUESS I DIDN'T SAY IT BUT GET FEEL BETTER EDDIE. FUCKIGN BEAST MODE SOLDJA FINISHING THE RIDE AFTER A FALL LIKE THAT.
This part doesn't apply to EDDIE = this is a threadjacking.
When I learned to B.U.I., it was through the gradual introduction of more and more alcohol in relatively tame environments such as LACM, SMCM, and old skool Ridazz ride. I was already riding everywhere all the time so my riding skills were pretty good.
Now we get people coming to CRANK MOB, a ride that has combined all the crazy of the above rides in one ride, and they hardly know how to ride a bike. Like CRANK MOB is the furthest they've ridden since they were 12. It's bad - they're like bike infants with tequila in their bottles.
Darwin didn't throw babies to the wolves. We need to pad all the corners, cover up all the electrical sockets, and put the medicine on the top shelf with mommy's happy pills. We need a safe place for people to crash but not die! Bike crib, with mobiles, and chewy toys and Cheerios to gum up while you're bike teething.
There were a number of crashes and casualties last night. As I was leading a rag tag group back to the start point a girl crashed and gashed open her head.
I saw Eddieboy after the crash, he was fucked up but was still able to finish the ride.
There is definitely too much alcohol intake. That combined with such a large group that includes aggressive and nihilistic BMX's, fixed-geared hipsters weaving fast and furiously in an out of the pack, and first time riders wobbling their way down the street, it's surprising the casualty count isn't higher.
@kyber
Is there some reason why it's not okay to talk about how these rides are just getting more and more dangerous? Should we all just shut up so you can keep having fun?
You sound like the guy who yells "Shut up dad" when someone tells him to stop littering or stay to the right.
The object is to make riding safer for all, on large and small rides alike. I've seen enough rider blood spilled on the road. We need to find solutions instead of accepting the status quo.
I hate to see this happen to anybody. It all fun & games until somebody loses an eye . . . or worse.
And I also don't like being the guy who says, "I told you so", but the combination of alcohol and drug consumption, inexperienced and inconsiderate riders, and the general atmosphere of wild abandon is an accident waiting to happen and has led me to increasingly avoid rides like CRANK Mob. I don't feel the need to put myself at risk any more than is necessary. It just takes the fun out of it for me.
Yeah, I realize we've been over this ground time & time again, but action should be taken; maybe it's time to go underground?
anyone know what happened to that girl that took that big spill on that venice hill? i just saw her tumbling down and that was it. pretty scary.
honestly, dont think ill do crank mob again. it felt like too much of a fashion statement and not so much as a ride where people were enjoying riding. i understand wanting to drink and meet people.. but you can do that anywhere.. how about more riding and not so much just drinking? [ even 50 / 50 would be nicer than the 25% riding / 75% acting like 10th graders as what was happening last night. ]
No, your assumptions about me are incorrect. The point I was trying to make is that there have been many many threads about safe behavior during rides, and they all seemed to have little impact on the safety of large group rides.
Why? Well, because there are tons of new people who show up to the rides all the time and are unaware that they are not supposed to act like morons the entire time.
And you can say whatever you want, because to be honest with you I rarely come out anymore because I fear for my personal safety. My idea of fun does NOT involve being hyper-vigilant for a few hours while I ride around with underaged kids who are intoxicated and haven't ridden a bike since they were 14. It does not involve taking care of my friends injuries because someone did something stupid which caused them to crash.
I'm with Rollers on this one, we need to be fun and SAFE. But at the same time, I think it's important to note that everything we have tried so far HAS NOT WORKED.
As for the "Shut up, dad" remark, that's an interesting thing to say to someone who you don't even know. Ask about me and I'm sure you will find that both of your assumptions about me are far from truth.
The inherent problem with CRANK MOB is in the name itself.
This is an ironical statement when so many of the people in this thread are actually ride organizers, not just participants.
Alex Thompson
06.22.08 - 6:43 pm
Alex, seeing that we know each other on a personal level, I think this personal attack is a bit lame. What you are essentially doing is "pulling rank" and declaring my opinion as invalid because you happen to be placed at the top of a self-described non-hierarchical community.
How's that for irony?
You're a good guy, we all know it. But discrediting me just because I don't have my hands in the cycling community (MR specifically, in this case) is weak. The beauty of the fringe cycling community in LA is that everyone has different roles, and everyone is equally respected and appreciated.
"If you don't like what happens on large ride you should try attending smaller ones."
It sounded like you were trying to get people to stop talking about the problems and just go to another ride. I think thats a wrong solution. If thats not what you meant then I'll shut up.
I think it could be inaccurate to say that all these suggestions for improving safety "haven't worked." From what I've seen on most rides, they aren't even put into practice.
At the start of yesterday's Crank Mob, I remember that there were warnings about previous months' accidents and some vague admonitions to "keep it safe," but I don't remember any specific safety tips being mentioned. If we had gone over the basics (holding your line, not stopping in the middle of the pack, calling out obstacles, etc.), maybe the newbies would be better educated and there would have been fewer accidents. Or maybe there wouldn't.
If the safety talk only extends to this discussion board, then obviously, we are not getting the information to the people that need it. If we want to translate safety talk into safety action, then the guidelines need to be stated explicitly at the beginning of every large ride, not just vaguely referenced every so often.
I've been in the thick of those threads which were started to try to make rides more safe, and most of the techniques we came up with haven't worked.
I love talking about problems. Especially social problems (which this really is a prime example of) which require unique out of the the box solutions. I should have been more clear, as I was simply suggesting that people attend smaller rides to understand why most of them have been working so well and have been relatively incident free.
A lot of it has to do with respect, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that you lose a lot of anonymity when it's only 20 of you as compared to 200, 500, or 1000. I've said it before and I will say it again. If you want people to change, you have to talk to them and explain to them why good behavior is important. I know it sounds silly, but we have to realize we're dealing with a cross section of society in which people have different ideals and morals, and come from vastly different upbringings. We're not all wired the same.
The "About the Ridazz" section of this website is a great start, and a must read for everyone before they ride. But it's important to realize that not everyone has been on this website before they attend their first MR ride.
I agree with you about action vs. talk, but in reference to "things that don't work" I was speaking strictly of the online guidelines that were developed. No one has really thought to take it to the next level and actually inform people before rides of more specific guidelines that are to be followed.
Then again, there's the whole dilemma of trying to lay rules on top of a mostly anarchic ethos based framework.
i agree! you cant crash your bike if youre so fucked up on heroin that you cant even move in the first place. how do you know that this stuff is the best? because it puts your chin right on your chest.
personally I think alot of accidents can be reduced if we slow down. Chill out a little and enjoy the company instead of trying to get to the front. The person with music trailer can do alot to get this pack to slow down. Harry for some reason last night seemed to be amped up and rolling in the high gears. Maybe he was trying to get to the front to slow everyone down, I don't know. To me racing to the front just gets everyone going that much faster. Not sure what the reason is for everyone to be riding fast. Would be nice to see one time where everyone wants to roll and chill out.
Oh yeah, hope you're feeling better Eddie! Man you looked like a mess last night.
If you don't like what happens at huge rides, try attending smaller ones.
kyber
06.22.08 - 6:24 pm
Let's try this again kyber, but without the paranoid angst you just directed at me.
In your comment above you are most definitely trying to put a cap on the discussion, and suggesting that the best option for avoiding the issues of larger rides is simply not to go. Not only that - but you're saying it to several people who actually have the power to influence rides. Hence - "ironical".
You weren't there - so I'll fill you. 3 nasty head injuries at CRANK MOB last night, all three of which should have been followed by trips to the hospital. Only one did, but the point is clear - things are rowdy in the wrong ways.
Most of the funnest parts of CRANK MOB happen at the stops and in parking structures, and yet all the damage is happening between. That suggests that it is possible to reduce the injuries between stops while not hurting the fun.
And dude - I have no idea why you construed that as me pulling rank. All I was saying is that some of us, yourself included, have some ability to affect rides, and therefore the discussion is not pointless.
Clearly impromptu megaphone announcements aren't cutting it. On CRANK MOB specifically I have to defer to K, so I can't say anything right now. I'll say this, on a personal level, I never wear a helmet on slow group rides . . .
but I started wearing a helmet again for CRANK MOB. I've seen too many head injuries on the ride where a helmet was not present, and could have mitigated.
Eddie was hardcore with blood gushing from his head the man trued his wheel and refused to listen to anyone who thought it in Eddie's best interest if we help him to get home!!! Eddie wouldn't have any of it...RIDE, RIDE, "aww man only once of month" was Eddie's mantra... Eddie is a SOLDIER!!! Earlier in the week Frank Schleck did something similiar but probably not as hardcore as Eddie cause he had a bike waiting for him ready to go before finishing his race...Alex Thompson take note...YOU DON'T RIDE INTO RAILS SON!!!
In regards to the crashes...We should not have such an aversion to documenting them when they happen...Because they will happen...You take some of those photos of the knarley crashes and put some nice cutsy font to the effect of "Don't Be A Dick, Hold Your Motherfucking Line" along with the immediacy that it happened on one of the rides maybe it will hit home. Granted not everyone has a pain tolerance or the abilitiy to feel physical pain like a lad who just jumped off a building in India for the hell of it and killed himself because he didn't know what physical pain felt like but something needs to be done to get through to the few clowns who feel the need to speed race bob and weave causing crashes on the ride...
I like your answer! It ain't Tour de France, kids! Leave the testosterone at home and join the fun. If you need to go really fast, then go, baby! Go, until you hit the wall; leave the chilling to the willing!
How about a spoke card with the most gruesome injury we can dig up. The "Don't let this happen to you ride"
On another note, the whole "riding fast to get to the front" dilemma is hardly that at all. I personally like to go real fast, a lot. So, after corking for all you fine folks, I haul balls to the front. I notice most "fixie hipsters diving in and out of the pack" doing so without much incident. What really irks me is the guy who insists on showing off his bunny hopping skills by jumping off a curb into the pack. Now that is grounds for a "too bad" when you split your face open. I'm just sorry for the poor folks who happened to be in his way.
I forgot to mention that I noticed calling out curbs, pot holes, down riders isn't the priority it once was. My first few rides all I would hear is people yelling "pot hole" and "curb." Lately, not a peep. It's contagious, both ways.
wurd...Spoke cards great...Whatever will communicate to the Crank Mob masses and other larger rides that if you become too complacent you WILL end up ON and or LOSING your face...Foresight is a hell of a thing...
nice Mr. Thompson...while we're on the subject of crashes... yeah bikes and dogs don't really mix...keep them on a leash around da bikes please...ironically both of these accidents happened during last years tour...
We should call out at the beginning of the ride to the fast fixed-gear guys, tell them to cork intersections and then ride fast to the front of the pack and do it again. This will fulfill their need for speed and also get them accolades from the group.
A lot of the veteran riders were calling out road hazards like pot holes, etc, but with 600 bicyclists communication becomes a real challenge.
On other notes.
Alex Thompson tended to a lot of the wounded last night (you might have missed your calling, Doctor Thompson?), we probably need more first aid kits and more people who can administer such aid.
Harry, K and Alex did their best to instruct the group about riding etiquette, but again with the massive turnout the megaphones and P.A. system just can't reach everyone. Maybe handouts or information on the back of the spoke card might help.
CRANK MOB is like the internet, a victim of it's own success. No one expected it to reach such massive numbers, and it will probably increase exponentially. CRANK MOB has gotten more people on bicycles. Which in this city is a victory. So kudos to K and the rest of the CRANK MOB cadres for creating a truly great ride experience.
Now let's figure out how we can have 1000 riders who drink responsibly and go home with no injuries.
Eddie - I hope you're ok... please take care and get well soon.
as for all these points.. we have discussed these things at length and I don't see much in the ways of these discussions coming off the boards and into the streets.
There is a lot of stopping on these rides.. I've said it before and I'll say it again. People have megaphones and microphones - maybe someone can be in charge of making anouncements before the restart at each stop..
ALSO:
what about making the spoke cards with specific information on the back as to what is EXPECTED while you ride with a large group.
RULE #1
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for your actions! DO NOT put other riders in danger whether by too much BUI or dangerous riding.
who else can come up with an important rule to put on the back of a spokecard?
"If you don't like what happens at huge rides, try attending smaller ones."
kyber
Please don't bail. If all the people that ride regularly and read this forum opt out, then the only people left will be the people like I overheard last night -- "I haven't ridden a bike since I was 12." You know what, I love hearing that. But there's so much to learn ... riding at night, riding in a group, riding a couple beers in, ... uh, riding. Yes, everyone's responsible for taking care of himself, or herself, to keep eyes and ears open, to know limits. But if you're that brand new to this thing, then you don't know how much you have to learn. That's where the more experienced among us come in. Regulating, and teaching how to regulate. Calling out pot holes, corking, yelling "clear," yelling "car back," yelling "don't be a fucktard," yelling "woop-wooooooop," yelling.
Lots of yelling.
Eddie, take care. The guy who kicked you is an asshole and an idiot. I suppose he disappeared after he realized he chucked someone to the ground with 400 people riding close behind him. Stuff like this makes me want to roar to the heavens. Best wishes, too, to the other downed riders. I didn't hear anything about them on the ride, a testament to how big it was and to how many new people were there. Crikey.
redridinghood, we were writing at the same time. Having rules ... or not so much rules but shit to be aware of on the back of a spoke card might do the trick.
Also, yelling. With a smile and a wave and a hot bike and a good spirit and silly string and short shorts. And a smile. Did I say that already? It's important.
I forgot to ask about the other injured riders. Not to take away from Eddie (sending good juju your way friend), but I don't hear anybody sending any wishes of get wells or feel betters to any other injured riders from last night. Why is this? I don't know who you all are, I had to miss out, but I hope you are all okay...particularly the soul who had to be taken to the hospital. Looking forward to future safe rides with everybody back on the road in one piece.
Although not realistic I though it would be funny to have a big "INJURY FREE FOR XX DAYS/MILES" thingy on the home page. I've seen 'em in hazardous work environments. I'm not suggesting we make a funny out of injured riders but anything to raise awareness.
Agreed, last night convinced me that a helmet is a good idea on any ride, no matter how slow. I noticed a guy inside a 7/11 applying Neosporin to his elbow scrape early on during the ride. I will bring a small first aid kit on future Crank Mobs, we should always have antiseptic solution, gauze pads, and xlarge bandaids for rides this big.
All the obvious stuff (holding your line, don't stop abruptly, yell out hazards, signal turns) should be something that we all try to pass on to new riders, since not everyone pays attention to the megaphone. Maybe if you invite your friends to Crank Mob, you should also give them a quick rundown of the safety tips before the ride.
these things are practically advertised as "parties on wheels," drinking and riding is encouraged, a reckless image is portrayed on this site (kids are impressionable), and you guys are wondering why there are accidents and injuries constantly happening?
srsly?
i'm with kyber - if you want a "safer" ride, go w/ the smaller ones where you know the ppl aren't douches.
I hope we hear from EDDIE soon. It would be good to know about the guy we left with LAFD, and the girl who crashed - I know nothing about her.
I bike the idea of spokecards featuring "I wish I had done it differently" gore.
Windmann2, that's not my leg, it's a Bikerowave head mechanics leg. I hurt pretty bad after this, last year on Valentine's Day, but EDDIE looked worse than me.
I also want to mention, on the topic of being more vocal AND corking. Those who are corking have some other things that they should be doing. One of these things is to keep an eye on how dense the ride is, if it's too thin, the thing they should do when they get to the front is slow down the front of the ride, not just the front row, but the front third or so, a person who is coming from the back should be working to help keep the pace of the ride reasonable. Most of the people who haul our sound systems are strong riders, and they sometimes can't tell what's going on behind them as they are trying to stay in the front of the ride to set the pace.
The other thing corkers returning to the front, or anyone riding to the front of a ride should be riding up the left edge of the second lane from the left side of the road (so there is one whole lane to their left) and call to those ridazz in front of them and to the side to move over, and let cars through. This is beneficial to us in many ways, it keeps traffic moving past us (which in turn keeps the COPS from hassling us), as well as keeps drivers from getting all agro. If someone is riding and being VOCAL, REPEATEDLY, people WILL move over. I have seen this on rides, I have done this one rides, it works, however, it needs to be done more consistently as people tend to fill in as soon as the traffic passes.
@lbRida:
I notice most "fixie hipsters diving in and out of the pack" doing so without much incident.
I hate to disagree, but without exception, every time I've witnessed a crash that was the direct result of another rider's actions, it was a "fixie hipster" riding stupid lines in a group. I've been crashed that way. My roommate has been crashed that way, and I've seen it happen to a number of others.
Personally, I've probably ridden my last social ride until the weather turns to shit again, or at least my last large social ride. The rides were way more fun in winter, when only those who really want to be riding, rather than just drinking, come out for rides. I really like the stop and party nature of CRANK Mob, and it has long been my favourite ride of the month, but after being criticized for riding too slowly by one fixie hipster shortly before watching my roommate get pretty badly crashed by another idiot riding diagonally through the pack at twice its velocity a couple of crank mobs ago, I've given up on it for the summer.
Eddie - I hope you aren't too badly damaged. Get well soon.
I have been running the Spoke(n) Art Ride for 2 years (?) now and I think I've hit on a formula that helps keep groups of experienced riders and total newbie relatively safe.
There have been several crashes on the Spoke(n) Art Ride - so now I let people know, before the ride, what the deal is.
I shout this out before we go:
- This isn't a war against cars, we're just going for a nice mellow ride around the neighborhood
-We'll take up the whole right hand lane most of the time (and all of the lane on a single lane road)
-Keep your distance from car doors
-We'll stop at just about every red light, but we'll blow through most of the stop signs on side streets
-When going downhills keep your distance and try your hardest to ride in a straight line giving yourself a buffer to avoid potholes, etc.
-If you're lost, here is my phone number:
All the crashed on the Spoke(n) Art ride have been on downhill sloping roads, and most have involved bike riders putting themselves over their own bars by braking too fast.
I agree that WE need to help other riders understand and appreicate that there actions affect the rest of us. I will be more vocal towards riders that are (in my opinion) affecting the ride in negatives ways. If vocal does not work, next level shit might happen, if not, me and Masterblaster will just have to kick the morons ass!!!!!
And I hope the MR community will back me up if or when this has to happen, but all in all I hope not, I JUST WANT TO RIDE MY BIKE AND HAVE F.U.N. WITH EVERYONE
This was my first crankmob ride, and it was awesome! I can't wait for the next one.
That said, there were some things that definitely could be encouraged to make the ride safer.
1. Call stuff out. If there are potholes, or people are slowing or stopping, yell out "Pothole!", "Slowing!" or "Stopping!"
2. If somebody's behaving like an asshole, avoid that person. Watch the crowd at the stops. Somebody who's knocking over bikes (on purpose or inadvertently), breaking stuff, bumping into people, getting too altered to exercise good judgment, etc. OFF their bike, is as likely, if not moreso, to do the same things on his bike. If they're being actively assholish (breaking stuff, stealing, etc.), call them out on it, if they're just being careless and stupid, avoid them.
3. Maintain your lines and encourage others to do so. Use a bell or a horn if you're not comfortable yelling out at other people.
4. Just like driving, maybe we should encourage slower traffic to keep right. People stopping during the riding sections should be encouraged to pull to the side instead of just stopping in the middle of the crowd.
5. Exercise common sense. There's a reason operating a vehicle under the influence is illegal, and it's not just because law enforcement loves to be a buzzkill. If you behave as though you're on the road with a couple hundred drunk cyclists with bad judgment and slowed motor control, (as well as hundreds more safe and friendly and capable cyclists) your life gets a lot easier.
Of course, unfortunately none of this affects getting KICKED OFF YOUR BIKE.
Does anybody have any details on what happened to Eddie?
Were there words exchanged prior to the accident, or was he just randomly kicked off his bike? (Not that kicking someone off their bike is EVER acceptable, but it would be nice to understand exactly what happened here to be able to prevent it next time, if possible.)
Also, would it be possible to announce the next stop (or at least make it known for the asking) at the previous stop? While surprise destinations are fun, it sucks if you get a flat or stop to help somebody to be stuck wondering where everybody went while you're fixing a bike, and it makes it harder to be altruistic if your choice is to help somebody or lose the group.
Thanks again for setting this up, it was tremendous fun!
First of all Eddie, it breaks my heart to hear of this accident. It didn't take something so disastrous to make you "core elite", you are Core Elite, have been and always will be and you don't have to get into a crash to do it.
Ubray is right. When we've planned rides Joseph has been an inspiration on how to keep a ride safe in a friendly manner. He's always gotten up, introduced himself and his ride and requested that people follow the guidelines to keep everyone safe and together.
It's a very difficult thing to get people to listen to you before, and especially during the rides. I've come home with no voice and feeling like a nerd from trying to get people to "stay to the right" or "don't stop in the middle". Most of the time you get blank idiotic looks or the usual, "I'm too cool to follow any rules" responses.
Personal responsibility is the best thing but if a friend is too juiced to ride, making idiotic moves or just being a prik, say something.
Because my own personal safety as well as the safely of my loved ones are involved I feel it my responsibility, as I think we all should, take care of each other.
I'm under the impression he is still in a hospital somewhere without access to his cellphone. I've never looked up anyone before, how do you go about it? His full name is Edward Alvarez. I think we really need to find out how he is doing.
Another thing that helps is to try to avoid downhills when planning a ride. As speed, (not the crank stuff) is one of the contributing factors in crashes.
I'm kinda getting worried here... is anyone close to his home? Peek in the windows and such just to be safe. I dont want to say this, but blood clots in the brain=not good!!!!!!! You can be ok for a bit, then....
try zabasearch.com
i think he's in pasadena. that site gives addresses and phone numbers and in some cases DOB so it can narrow it down a bit. there are a ton of edward alvarez's in california.
I'm starting to wonder if a lot of it comes down to a question of "How do you make people care?" Most of us participate in this forum because we care about the long term health and well being of this bike thing that we do, but I suspect a lot of the new riders that come out are just doing it because it looks cool and they'll be gone as soon as the Next Big Thing comes along. Or they'll get married, have kids, move to the suburbs, put their bikes away, get fat and watch TV every night. I'm not trying to come off all superior-like, but correct me if I'm wrong.
The information regarding how to ride safely in a group and act like a decent and responsible human being is readily available . . . if someone wants to read it.
I still want to believe in the better aspects of human nature, but it's a challenge at times.
THE PAIN, PELVIC ABOUT ONE INCH THICKER, CANT WALK, LEFT FACE FEELS LIKE PLASTIC, MADE IT HOME FROM SOMEWHERE IN WEST LA, REMEMBER GETTING KICKED, THEN A RED CARPET, VERY HOT DRY AIR, ASMA ACTINING UP, LEFT FOR BUS TRAIN, ANYTHING, LOOKED BACK AND REMEMBER THE BURITOO PROJECT, (RANDYS HOUSE?) DONT KNOW WHAT FUNARA TALKING ABOUT, REMEMBER SONNY NEXT TO ME (IN A CAR?) WHO EVER FUCKED UP MY RIM, DID IT CELLPHON GONEWITH MILTON YESTERDAY HE CHEAKS ME OFTEN HE WORKS, NEED PELVIC/UPER LEG LOOK AT, NO INSURENCE, ANY PRATICING NURSE OR DOC CAN COM LOOK AT MY PRIVATE AREA, PROFESSIONNNALLLLY ? PROBALLY GIVE UP RIDING IN GROUPES POR Y MUCHO GENTE QUE NE SAVES LA ONDA, ENTONCES, GRACIAS POR LAS PALABRAS DE MADES.
Sounds like Eddie needs access to a doctor who will look at him "pro bono", since he doesn't have health insurance. he probably also needs someone to take him to the doctor since he is having difficulty walking with his injuries.
THANK GUYZ FO YOUR CANCERN SOMEONE IS COMING FOR ME LATER, TONIGHT. HEAD IS MORE CLEAR NOW OUT OF VICODAN, DIG IN YOUR POCKETS, LOL THIS SUCKSTYPING WITH ONE HAND IS VERY PAINFULL SHIT, SORRY FOR RIDING ON THE SIDEWALK,
MY GOOD EYE IS FUCKED, LETTERS ARE HARD TO FOCUS ON, USING BAD EYE NOWW, FUNARO DESERVES A CYPER HUG FOR TAKING ME TO RANDYS PAD, DIDNT SEE RANDY, WHITCH MAKES ME SAD, BUT I'M STILL ALIVE, BIG JONH I OWE YOU MY LIFE, BRO. FROM THE HEART SONNY, THANKS YOU LITTLE DUDE. EVRYBODY ELSE THAMK YOU FOR YOUR CONCERN, I DID THINK I WAS A GONNER AT FIRST, NOW I JUST HERE. THANK GOD SO WEAK AND HUNGRY. "WHOLET ME GET BACK ON MY BIKE? MILTON MET ME IN PASADENA, GOT ME HOME SAFE, BUT HE WORKS MANY HOURS, HR CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH. THANK YOU MILTON,
"THIS SUCKSTYPING WITH ONE HAND" - don't we all know it!
eddie, your friends and fellow ridazz are here to help. say the word and we can make things easier for your recovery. the last thing you need is to be sitting around too weak to pull together a meal.
I hope Eddie gets the help he needs. I also want to wish the other victims well.
redridinghood had some good points:
"There is a lot of stopping on these rides.. I've said it before and I'll say it again. People have megaphones and microphones - maybe someone can be in charge of making anouncements before the restart at each stop..
what about making the spoke cards with specific information on the back as to what is EXPECTED while you ride with a large group.
RULE #1
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for your actions! DO NOT put other riders in danger whether by too much BUI or dangerous riding."
I agree. Just have the person with the megaphone remind everyone of common sense on a bike everytime we start riding. It is one solution that will help a little and is easy to do. Spoke cards with info would also be helpful and relatively easy.
Find out what Eddie needs and we will all chip in to help. If it's food, no problem. If it's a ride to the doctors, I am sure someone can step forward.
RACING TO THE FRONT TO TELL THE RACERS TO SLOW DOWN DOESNT WORK ANYMORE, I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN, I USE TO, IF ITS YOUR RIDE ROUTE, THEN YOU NEED TO STAY IN THE FRONT, PUT A HARNESS ON THE FORE=RUNNERS, RIDE LEADERS SHOULD ALWAYS BE COLOR CORDINATED, DESIGNATING WHO TO FOLLOW, MEGA PHONE ALSO, CHARGED FULLY SET ON FULL VOLUME, GIVING INSTRUCTING THE ROUTE, MAYBE SPECIAL SHIRTS PORTRAYING YOU AS A LEADER.I THINK YHAT WILL TEALLYCURB WREAKS, AND ACCIDENTS.
2) He does not have inexpensive health coverage, and therefore cannot afford to visit the doctor
Bad position to be in the US. Does anyone know what can be done here? He could easily get a nast infection and that could be it - blindness or worse. Are there free clinics that will treat him?
EDDIE!!!!! I'm SO GLAD to hear from you!!! as I'm sure we all are.. can we get a paypal link up for this guy PLEASE?? maybe Don can set it up on the site or something like that?
I think it comes down to the fact that not everyone reads this board.. we need this board to be more vocal on rides... I think it does a lot to make announcements before the ride.. sets the tone for the night - ya know?
and info on spoke cards are good too.. it shouldn't fall on any one (or few) people.. info that is readily available by way of spoke card makes peoples itt easier on peoples voices.. and makes it more official..
So here it is.... his face is puffed and feels like plastic and there is a bump below his bellly button that really concerns him because the swelling hasnt gone down. He asked if there was a doctor or nurse in our group who can come check him out. He called that queen of angels hospital but because he could dial they told him to go to county. He doesnt want to go to county cause its too far from his pad, or just plain doesnt want to go to the county hospital, I know how he feels on that, it sucks there. He is in pain and it is hard for him to talk. Does anyone have left over pain meds to donate?
Some of the alternatives are the County Hospital facilities. They will treat anyone but the wait could take days.
I believe there are private doctors willing to render aid, pro bono, though I am not familiar with any.
I jokingly made a reference to either you or Stillline at CRANK MOB that we should look into a "Riders Health Insurance Plan", to cover riders without health insurance or supplement those who have it.
if we don't self regulate, 'the man' will do it for us by shutting us down, using incidents like this as excuses. lets not give them reason to.
I have to say also - I have a major issue with publicly stating that a ride involves alcohol. It's not like people need have any problems figuring that out on their own.. I think all that does is give people room to get blitzed. I for one do not like riding with super blitzed people which is why I have been refraining from super large rides lately. I don't like to play babysitter, or be around when the cops inevitably show up because I feel like lately, more often than not, there tends to be confrontation for little or no reason rather than people trying to diffuse situations.
he can go to ceder sinai emergency room. they will bill him for a while but eventually they will eat it and he won't have to pay.. I have that on word from the head of the er..
THANKS RED RIDINGHOOD, I DONT THINK I NEED TO SEE A DOC, NOT YET, NEED TO SEE IF THIER ARE ANY COMPLICATIONS DIRST, MY PRIORITY IS ENERGY, FOOD, POWER, I CANT RUN TO MCDONALDS, (MANY RESTRAUNTS AROUD HERE) OR THE LIKE, IM TRAPED AT HOME ALONE LOUIS IS COMING OVER TONIGHT, TO ASSESS MY CONDITION, HE WILL TAKE CARE OF ME, SEE WHAT INEED, AND ACR ON IT, "NO PAY PAL" MONEY IS NEEDED, MORE LIKE A NURSE TO HELP ME RECOVER, ADVICE IS ALL AYS APPRECIATED, BUT I REALLY NEED TO SEE HW AT LOUIS SUGGESTS REGARDING MY CONDITION, I HAVE SOME MONEY FOR FOOD, BUT CAN NOT GET OUT, RANCH IS ABOUT 4 BLOCKS AWAY, I CANT MAKE IT ALONE OVER THERE, I GET A LITTLE DIZZY WHEN I RUN TO THE BATHROOM, PELVIC VERY "PUFFY" BUT SURPRIZING NO PAIN, PAIN IS VERY PAINFUL IN MY FACE AND ARMS CHEST, BOTH ARMS, RIGHT KNEE, SUN LIGHT LIGHT REALLY HURTS MY GOOD EYE, AND HEAD AREA, BRAIN STILL WORKS, LOL,
Eddie, sounds like you need medical attention - don't put it off, whatever you have to do! I'm sure County General is no picnic, but it might beat the alternative.
Eddie, definitely get to a doctor and have yourself checked out. A friend of mine was diagnosed over the weekend with having acute leukemia. the doctor said she would've been dead in 3 weeks if she hadn't gone to the doctor.
MR ROLLERS THANK YOU, I M REAAALLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHATS GOING ON BELOW THE BELT, EVERYTHING ELSE IS ABOUT "TIME" AND IRECOVERY, I DONT5 LIKE LETTING YOU GUYZ KNO MUCH ABOUT ME, BUT ME BEING A VERY DIFICULT INDIDVIDUAL CAUSES ME TO COME OFF WRONG, THAT IS NOT MY INTENTION, HAS TO DO WITH THE WAY I WAS RAISED, I SURE WAS AMAZIED HOW BIG CRANK MOB WAS THIS TIME, ANYBODY GET A BODY COUNT? I FIGURE ABOUT 300 OR MORE.
I STILL GOT MY NIPPLE, SOMEHO BEING CALLED "NIPPLES" DOESNT SUIT ME, LOL, HAVE TO STOP TYPING, GETTING DIZZY WITH THEES LETTERS ON TIS KEYBOARD, AGAIN THANKS GUYZ AND GALZ!
Eddie - please go to tthe hospital and get your lower area checked out... I'm sure you don't want anything to heal wrong there!!!!! you don't have to go to county.. you can go to ceders or a diff one.. but please just go.. if not for yourself, think of your future babies!!!!!
Eddie get your ass to the hospital. Get in touch with Sexy. He knows a lot of the ins and outs of getting medical care when you can't afford it. If you need anything give me a call and i'll head up to pasadena. i'm around all day tomorrow.
somebody asked for permission to post pics of my face, POST THEM, I WANT TO SEE WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE THAT NIGHT, I KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE NOW, FUCK I'M UGLY.
Crespin and I can also help out with bringing you some food or taking you out for whatever you need. We'll give you a call to set something up. Also...I also think you should check out an ER....so much better to be safe, man. And thats something we can drive you too as well. We love you and will be there for you.
Man, Eddie, glad to hear you made it. Like everyone is saying, get to a doctor as soon as you can.
When we were taking care of your wounds, you were absolutely determined to get that wheel fixed.
Everyone, picture this: Eddie is standing up, working on his bent wheel with the spoke key while others steady him, treat the still-bleeding wounds on his face and try to convince him to call it a night. He gives directions: "OK, now spin the wheel for me. Yeah, still bent a little... just a little right here. Can I get some more light on this? Who has a light? Shit, that hurts man! Just dab, don't wipe. Now spin it again. No, I'm not taking a bus. Is it still bleeding? OK. Good. Give me that tire..."
Eddie's not just Core Elite - he's Triple Hardcore Elite. Get well soon, man.
Would anyone object if we passed a donation jar around on the next Midnight Ridazz ride to help with any Hospital/Doctor's bills for Eddie? I know there has been talk about a PP account, but as we all know, it seems many riders aren't reading these boards and may not know about the account or Eddie. But if we could walk around with a couple of Big Jars at the beginning of the ride, it couldn't hurt, could it?
Call 211 (the United Way Help Referral Line), or (323) 653-1990 (the Los Angeles Free Clinic), or check out this link - http://www.harp.org/clinics.htm - for a list of free / low cost health clinics, as it would be best to get checked out if you can.
Fuck dudes..... ever see that movie Elephant man?!?!?!?!?!
Awww man hes in some pain, but hes doing as good as he can. Yeah, he will be going to the hospital tomorrow so we need to set up some volunteers to take and pick him up. He says he thinks someone roundhouse kicked him as he was riding up the sidewalk to catch up to the front. He says he saw these 3 mexicans up front, looked back to see if there was any ridazz behind him then just saw a foot a second before it hit his chest. Massive scabbing on his left cheeck and chin, shoulde, chest and right forearm. Hard for him to talk or eat.
What hospital?
If you have to go the county system, may I suggest something different then downtown la county. I don't know about Harbor, but I was happy about the treatment I received at Olive VIew.
If you go to a ER at a private hospital, remember, you can get the bill payed for by the 50 cent cigarette tax. You have to request, that the bill get payed that way when the bill comes.
If you go to a private ER and they refer you to a county system, you might as well go to the county to begin with.
If you go to Olive View, you might want to go to the ER at 4am. There is the least amount of people, and it quicker to get through at that time.
Eddie, i'm glad you're not worse than you are but i'm sorry that you are as bad as you are. i hope you find everything to be okay and i hope you recover quickly.
on everything else that this thread is about, i'm reading everything and definitely taking it all into account. some folks definitely need to be more respectful, towards their environment, towards the people around them and towards themselves. somehow that whole concept has to make it into their skulls. thanks for sharing ideas on how to communicate this.
oh and Ashira, C.R.A.N.K. MOB has never ever ever publicly stated anything about alcohol.
FIRST I WANT TO LET YOU GUYZ KNOW THAT LOUIS REALLY TOOK CARE OF ME, HE GOT ME FOOD FOR AT LEAST A COUPLE OF DAYZ, AND CLEANED MY WOUNDS, GAVE ME ADVICE, TOLD ME TO GOTO THE ER AT COUNTY GENERAL, IF IM NOT SEEING INPROVEMENT, THEN I WILL GUYZ, I CAN NOT BELIEVE HIS SACRAFICE HE MADE TO HELP ME OUT, HIS WIFE IS THE MOST BUETIFUL ASIAN I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE, SO YOU GUYZ RELAX AND KNOW THAT DISPAIR IS SOMETHIS NONE OF US SHOULD EVER FACE, AGAIN THANKS, I REALLY LOVE THE PHONE CALLS TO ME, WOW, I HAVE A WHOLE NEW OUTLOOK ON YOU GUYZ. AGAIN THANK FOR THE BIKE LOVE, THANKS!
Eddie - ONE OF US!! ONE OF US!! GOOBLE GOBBLE! GOOBLE GOBBLE! ONE OF US! ONE OF US! thanks for the update.. it's scary when someone you care about gets hurt.. Louis - thanks for checking on Eddie..
@K - I wasn't meaning to specifically point fingers, and I know you have never publicized it to be. But there are rides that do specifically claim to be alcohol induced, and there are many threads, this one included, where it is factually implied (does that make sense?). I think it is highly irresponsible to imply a BUI. there are photo's, reference to people's monikers along with there faces, and blatant speak about BUI.
My point is - I wish we were a little more underground in terms of spelling out certain actions. and I wish there was a bit more restraint sometimes in peoples actions too. I know this is an important place where the community communicates in important ways. I love the people I've met and I love the ride, and community promotion. And I love how public it is. I love that anyone can check it out online and find a bike community to ride with. I love the diversity here. I want to see it continue and not eat itself in the face because we self destruct because we can't take responsibility for our actions, and super BUI shit, and on top of that the way this website implicates itself.
I don't want to go on rides that end up with either cops and tickets, or busted up friends, or what seems to be more often than not these days is some kind of combination of the two. Those things put a major damper on my nights/rides.
I'm not placing blame on any one thing. Most definitely not on CRANK MOB which you know I seriously love with all of my heart - I freakin hand painted every one of those spoke cards a few months ago!(and I still have one in my bag waiting for you <3
what I am saying is that whoever is in charge of making spoke cards from now on, for hopefully any ride, also think about putting a few simple lines on the back about safe and responsible riding, and keeping each other accountable to some extent. Both on the streets and on this website.
I mean come on, we need to find constuctive ways of getting the word out to people who are either new, or not on this website, and of dealing with the current situation of too many people getting hurt.
Just catching up on all this now, glad you are OK man, hope you feel better soon and definitely get someone pro to check you out. Don't want something creeping up on you.
I know you've put some thought into this, and I respect your opinion, so please don't misconstrue any of this as antagonism.
I realize that you and others have a lot of concerns about the exposure of MR as a culture rampant with BUI. I question whether it is truly a legal risk. Forums have never been held accountable for this sort of thing, and in most cases these are not violations of the law which can be acted upon by LE unless they see them in person.
We can, as you suggest, try not to talk about drinking and riding explicitly on MR. On the other hand, not talking about drinking and riding is sort of like this administration's policy towards birth control. "Don't talk about it = no responsibilty for teen pregnancy."
The fact is people are going to drink and ride. We can insulate each other from public decry or legal action by staying mum. Then people will go on acting unsafely and call that "having a good time." Without our voices can we reasonably argue they were informed otherwise?
Or we can talk about it, and help others to delineate between drinking & riding as part of one way of having a good time, and smashing ones head on a curb because one took it to far.
Honestly, I think we would be better off pragmatically acknowledging that many riders habitually BUI on these rides, and then emphasizing that there are some who do so safely and largely without incident. (of course, this is within the context of the community, not while speaking to reporters etc)
Alex - tthere's a difference between acknowledgement and encouragement. Discussing what has turned into a clear problem with people getting hurt is a good acknowledgement and might help thing out.. clearly I have no problem with that - as here we are discussing and trying to engage in conversation about people we care about and don't want to see getting hurt or worse.
Open encouragement of drinking and biking via ride names or in threads (look to your right and youcan see 2 such examples without even having to click your mouse to find out more) is irresponsible, unnecessary and frankly very upsetting given how many people are getting hurt. Why are people being encouraged to BUI????? Does everyone need to get blitzed in order to have fun??? I think a few simple words on the back of a spokecard and more thought into what does and doesn't need to be spoken about on this PUBLIC forum. I'm not saying rate yourselves G. I am saying take some responsibility.
As for liability - think NYC and Critical Mass and Times Up. And Critical Mass is a ride with no leaders and no planning other than 'lets get together and ride'. The cops made HUGE hassles for Times Up. Kept them in court for YEARS. They had to spend A LOT of money and time dealing with that. *and* they did not have a website like tthis (which would make it way easier to pin liability). I'm not saying there's presadence for this. I'm saying why are we making it potentially easier for them to fuck with us?????
I'm not saying it's happened already. I'm saying why be stupid about tthis?? we are adults (mostly). we can take responsibility for our actions (hopefully) and not make potential problems for ourselves via stupid unnecessary childish behavior.
I'm not a fun killer here, I'm not saying never have a couple drinks on a ride (c'mon - this is me here :) - I am saying open your eyes and don't ruin the fun for yourself or for others by taking it too far.
as a somewhat new rider... i believe the inherit problem is not with the people that you see at most of the bike rides during the week, but with those that frequent one every now and then and have no concept of what it's like to be a fellow rider and look out for others, not just yourself. we should be taking responsibility... at the very least for our own actions. and if that's not good enough for some... than guidelines and leaders would alleviate some of turmoil. understand that the "usual riders" are aware and have the sense and sensibility to not be selfish and mind others. we have to build tighter connections and that's how you'll solve the problem, because no one and i mean NO ONE wants to see a friend lying on the pavement writhing in pain cus some idiot just cut him off or was being childish.
and I am also saying lets do something TANGEABLE like have our spoke cards state general safety and accountability tips for people who do not go on this forum and/or weave through these threads. It would be very very helpful in reminding people of the kind of behavior that is needed inorder to ride safely in a group. in the words of Le Tigre "GET OFF THE INTERNET!! I'LL MEET YOU IN THE STREETS!" let's ttake it from preaching to the church to spreading the gospel...
Spiral - I don't think inevitability is something to hone in on. behavior is either encouraged or not encouraged. Sometimes it's encouraged by not making the adjustments that can help direct things.
I think there are things we can do to shift mob mentality and this current irresponsibility thatt is hurting people we care about, to more responsible behavior whether by 'noobs' or 'core'. And I think something that is passed out at rides, and that people keep and cherish, like a spoke card, has more potential than a simple souveneer.
(ok - now you also all know tha I am a terrible speller and don't care when I have stuff I need to say ;)
There are always leaders. Even the anarchist during the Spanish Civil War had leaders. Let's not be naive.
Leaders are those who try to protect the group from harm. Who try to guide the group away from danger. Who have the intellectual wherewithal to ascertain certain situations using critical thinking skills. People who use cognitive reasoning instead of emotional/primal responses.
Spiral - I don't care if 'some people' are not receptive. I care that we take precautions and encourage responsibility in a tangable way tthat is not just us talking amongst ourselves when one of our friends gets hurt.
If I cared about 'some people' not being receptive to change, I would lay down right now and die because nothing would matter. and what I've found more often than not is that those 'some people' actually are receptive to more than we give them credit for when it comes down to it.
I can give you a ride to the hospital if you need it. (If you don't remember who I am, I ran in to you and your nephew riding home on California Blvd. in Pasadena at about 2:00 a.m. on a Wednesday night two weeks ago.)
Or if you want me to bring some food by your place, just post what you need and I can pick it up and drop it off for you.
I enjoy a beer or two on a ride, but don't feel the need or desire to get wasted. Maybe 'cause I'm older, I've been there, done that and it ain't gonna make me enjoy being out riding with my friends anymore than I already do. Some folks haven't gotten there yet. Plus, its good to have your wits & coordination about you when everyone else doesn't; I think it may have saved my ass a time or two.
Ashira, thanks for taking the time & trouble to put down your thoughts on this. You are obviously a respected member & leader of this community and what you say carries weight. As for the spelling, I have one recommendation: Google Toolbar has a great spellcheck function; I use it all the time.
People getting excited that they can do what they want. It's a great rush. I think the "leaders" of Crank Mob have taken rides to a new level, focusing on raising the positive "F.U.N." level. I am so damn impressed on how many excited and happy people can get together and take the streets. There isn't an angry or macho vibe about it at all which is impressive. However, let's take into consideration and acknowledge how it can become easy to lose sight of safety and common sense when you've never felt the rush of chaos before. There is a greater chance for something dangerous to happen when we are first letting the inner freak out.
(I admit, I hurt myself on Kabuki Sky out of inexperience and taking excitement past reason)
Let's not get caught up on the symantecs of "Leaders". There's going to be lots of new people coming. Those of more experience need to help others see the dangers that they might not.
This discussion is going to cause a lot of arguments but we need to keep it on and try to all get on the same page.
We are not policing others, we are just reminding people to BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEMSELVES, and to USE COMMON SENSE!
I read, write, delete, read, write, delete, and finally Mr. Rollers said it all in 1 paragraph that I have been thinking all along.....
Rollers: "I enjoy a beer or two on a ride, but don't feel the need or desire to get wasted. Maybe 'cause I'm older, I've been there, done that and it ain't gonna make me enjoy being out riding with my friends anymore than I already do. Some folks haven't gotten there yet. Plus, its good to have your wits & coordination about you when everyone else doesn't; I think it may have saved my ass a time or two."
Rollers said it: a beer or two is one thing, getting totally blitzed is another. So many times I've seen comments on this forum about people who can't even remember what they did or where they were the night before. And it is worn as a badge of honor or something. Personally, I just think it's LAME. What's the point if you can't even remember later?
hey skd - thanks for being you too! I dunno about LACM.. I did something (maybe slept funny? I dunno..) to my lower back last week and it's been killing me for days.. never had lower back pain like this before.. I have an apt with my amazing chiropractor tomorrow though (unless he can (hopefully) fit me in today) so maybe if it's better...
I'll know more in a couple days.. in general though, I always try to keep some patches in my bag... did you want specifically want something or were you suggesting?
It's unfortunate what happened to Eddie boy, and it may have been prevented if he wasn't drinking and smoking, but we live in a world of no assurances at all, where bad things happen at any moment, to anyone, for no discernible (and thus no preventable) reason. That's why we call it an accident. Nobody rides to crash. Let's not encourage heavy intoxication and accept that bicycling in L.A. is dangerous. That danger simply needs to be minimized with responsible behavior.
@ Eddieboy, i hope you're feeling better today. Again, if you need anything, please call. I'm more than happy to head up to pasadena to bring you anything you need.
@ The rest of you. Please just be careful and responsible. I wish there was a solution to make sure everyone leaves every ride happy and safe. The only one i can think of is that everyone take responsibility for their actions and put a little thought into how much alcohol/drugs they consume. This isn't a job for the "leaders", it's a job for every individual on the ride. I'm guilty of getting too fucked up on a few occasions, and as many of you know, it's lead to accidents. One of them is the sexiest photo when i crashed last year in portland and ended up with a beer bottle stuck in my arm. After that I seriously started cutting down on how fucked up I would get on the rides. Just remember, it's possible to have just as much fun on these rides without being trashed.
the main point I'm trying to make here is that it would not be so hard to have a standard list of things to be aware of on the back of spoke cards that are given out at rides.. maybe a bullet point breakdown that can be easily printed up for spokecard makers.. that way when people, 'noobs' and 'core' alike, are looking at the cool spoke card someone just gave them, they are also reminded to keep themselves and others safe with a viable list of please do's and please don't.
I gave a point/'rule' up above.. who else can add to it so we can draw something up?? I can't/don't want to do this alone. it takes community to keep something as good as CRANK MOB alive and healthy.
I want continuous and blatant and exuberant FUN on the rides we create/attend. I don't want to keep repeating myself over and over and over again trying to make the same points to people I don't know or have just met on rides. I'd rather it be part of the make up of rides in and of itself and I think spoke cards will go a long way towards doing that.
Spiral - this isn't just about Eddie, this thread was jacked (by me) long ago. There were two other people with head wounds on CRANK MOB. One of them worse than Eddies for sure, and we still haven't heard from the person and I'm worried. I will say, the ride was amazing apart from that - easily the most spectacular that I've been on - unbelievable.
One can rail against getting blitzed all one wants, it will not stop people from doing it. The trick is in knowing how to ride in that state, and when to stop, and lock up your bike.
Ashira, I believe that you are misunderstanding what happened with Time's Up. Time's Up, when slapped with the legal action by NYC could have easily argued that it was not their event and the suit was misplaced.
Instead, Time's Up took the case and fought as if Manhattan CM was their own - in order to establish legal precedent on behalf of the Mass. They won, and they won big for the 1st Amendment, and that was always the goal. They could have easily walked away from it.
Time's Up was not legally vulnerable, but they self sacrificed a little in order to accomplish a pretty damn impressive act of activism. The other aspect to consider is that they, as a coherent organization, were regularly posting Manhattan CM as paid staff. MR rides are posted by individuals with no formal association. Big legal difference, and one reason it's important not to censor these boards too much. Censorship of these boards could be construed as tacit approval of those uncensored items.
Riffing off that idea, what about a fucking obstacle course leaving each stop. If you don't make it through on your first 3 tries, we lock up your bike.
but again - there is a difference between acknowlegement and discussion, which again is what we are doing, and encouragement of irresponsible behavior and then saying sorry later. I'm not advocating censoring ourselves. I'm encouraging responsible action via words that we choose use and things tthat we choose to highlight about our rides.
and again - who can help me come up with points to put on the back of a spoke card?
Damn Eddie,
I'm really sorry to hear that kind of screwed up shit happened to you.
But it's awesome that everyone is stepping up to help out.
I'm in San Diego, but will find a way to put in to whatever collection is started. You should really have your eyes looked at too just to be safe.
Any one know of an optometrist?
Take care man, glad to hear you are on the mend.
but seriously, it would be nice if more people knew their limits and how to hold their line in their state of intoxication. I was almost swerved into more times than usual at the last crank mob. Of course, I'm sure that's related to the numbers in the turn out but it's still indicative of some sort of problem
When we left Trader Joe's I was having some trouble maintaining my line, and I thought "I haven't had that much, this is weird." Then I take a look down, and notice that my handle bars are twisted 20 degrees off straight. Whoops!
I'm thinking cardboard boxes and cones, and maybe plywood jumps!
Blame the heat. Blame the booze. Blame the idiots. Blame the sweaty, drunken idiots. Whatever the underlying reason, there must be some ways to cut down on the accidents and assholish "incidents" that have been taking place.
Some people might find it surprising that on the early Midnight Ridazz (the ones I'm thinking of were in 2005), none of the regrouping stops were at liquor stores. True, this is partly because they all started across the street from House of Spirits, so everyone who wanted to drink could get what they wanted beforehand. But there was also an implicit emphasis on "more riding, less drinking" during those times.
I'm guessing that the Whirly Girls and crew avoided liquor store stops on the oldskool rides because they would have taken time away from the actual riding. The fact that this also produced fewer drunken idiots was probably just a bonus. But it was a nice bonus. We could still drink, and we did, but it wasn't so heavily focused on drinking.
I don't mean this to be some kind of rant about "the old days," or hating on the Crank Mob M.O. Complaining about drinking while riding Crank Mob would be like complaining about waves while swimming in the ocean. I'm just trying to point out that people can have F.U.N. in ways that aren't so drinking-centric, and the structure of the ride will determine that to some extent.
Crank Mob's great strength is its ability to turn locations that might otherwise be pretty lame (like, say, a 7-11 parking lot) into nonstop superfun partytime. But in my opinion, the real highlights happen in places that are pretty cool to begin with (like, say, Crank Mob Park, Venice Circle or the jetty), and these places aren't necessarily right next to a liquor store.
So I'm wondering, would cutting down on the number of liquor store stops, shifting to some locations that are awesome in their own right, be an option? I know that bathrooms, food, etc. are also important, so I'm not talking about eliminating 7-11s from the itinerary. I'm just saying that you could play down the booze, play up the F.U.N., and see where it takes you.
If the stop locations were well known to the crowd, the people who has the sobriety to do so could make stops at liquor stores we pass without fear of being lost. That might strike a compromise between the CRANK MOB ethic and nathan's observation.
There were two other people with head wounds on CRANK MOB. One of them worse than Eddies for sure, and we still haven't heard from the person and I'm worried.
the guy who went down on via marina posted on lafixed that he woke up in the hospital and he had no idea what had happened.
LAFixed isn't working right now . . . I'll check it later. So is he cool, or is he jacked up? Now we just need a report on the woman that went down on the way back from the Marina.
Eddie, I hope all is well. Hope all is well with the other ridazz too. Please keep us posted on their recovery.
One thing that I do regards to drinkin / ridin, is that I don't start drinkin till the start of the ride. Have a beer or two before taking off. Then have a couple to a few on the ride. I could almost have a six pack in an hour before I'm legally drunk. Add that riding burns off 1-2 beers an hour, and I'm barely buzzed by the time the ride is finished.
I think if people limited their drinking somehow, there would be alot less accidents. I like the practice of not drinking till you get to the start of the ride. Obviously one could limit themselves other ways, but this one works for me.
Oh yeah I forgot. I hate the way lafixed.com makes you register before you look at the link above. You can try the combo below if you don't want to register.
Crespin, Borfo and I just took Eddie to County USC ER. It's gonna be a while before he gets seen. Borfo is still there hanging out with Eddie. Crespin and I just took off to get some food. His left eye (the good one) is blurry, he's pretty scraped up, and has has what looks like a hernia (this is coming from 3 guys who have absolutely no medical training whatsoever). He's in good spirits, but is in pain. We'll keep you posted.
the problem (as i think was earlier stated) is a lot of the people reading these threads aren't the people who really need to learn a thing or two about riding safely. bring da safety to da mob.
I hope you get better Eddie..that really sucks you have to go through all this but remember what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I wanted to pull over and help seeing I ALWAYS carry my first-aid kit. I'm glad they were able to help you out. hope to see you soon but in great health.
Here is the future of not only MR but all group rides in LA. The rides will get bigger and bigger over time and at the same time they will get more unruly and disorganized because the "leadership" ,aka guys with megaphones and bullhorns, will continue to insist that no one is really leading the ride, although de facto they are, and will continue to encourage weed smoking and drinking on the rides. This will spiral out of control until someone gets killed because they shouldn't be riding or the fixed gear and bmx 13 year olds (mentally) will drag a confused mother out of her minivan and beat her Rodney King style. Then the city, the pigs the general public will put an end to something which is in theory supercool.
daend
So either we change the ride or we all die. The powers that be don't care if it's MR, CM or the douchebag Crank Mob. They will stop all rides for everyone.
Shut the fuck up. You aren't helping anything with your whining.
If you want to make a change in the group you got to do something about it. Not be a dick.
Nobody's going to die, and we're going to make sure of that.
Update:
They have to operate on him. They told him what it in medical terms but they didn't explain it in layman's terms so he doesn't really know.
I'm at home now cause he wont be out for some time. I told him he has a right to know his condition but he says hes already pissed a lot of people off with his big mouth.
So, I don't know exactly how serious it is, but at least he is getting immediate attention.
negativity is useless. all it does it promote the current framework of 'this won't change' mentality. we are a group of many different types of people. Many of us are actively working on figuring out ways to POSITIVELY shift the current dynamic.
I've never laughed so hard! Thanks for being such a troll. Are you in such desperate need of attention that you want to take it away from a friend in need?
Your use of high school melodrama and your ability to see into the future astounds my sense of logic. I didn't think any Rida could be so childish and delusional until now. How does fixie and BMX riding in a group spiral into a Rodney King style beat-down that results in death? How does buying a $5 megaphone from Harbor Freight make one a leader?
Quit hiding behind the anonymity of the internet to troll our friendly message board, and start doing something positive in your life, like riding a bike.
okay, okay....let's get back to eddie. The post in question could have had good intentions at heart....I don't know. Bad time to be preachin'....yes. There has been a bunch of preachin' since Saturday. Let's just calm it down and digest the fact that we have a friend in trouble.
Fuuuuuuck. Is it what y'all thought was a hernia (sounded like one to me), or is it his eye? Or should I not be asking personal questions.
Moving on - lay off mlee99z a little. Yeah - he or she is hater of CRANK MOB. What mlee99z says above is a statistical certainty though. Eventually someone will get hit, fall wrong, or pull someone out of a car. Minimizing risk is important if we want to put that statistical certainty off as long as possible. It's a matter of when, not if, and acknowledging that is useful, because it sets a reasonable standard of achievement - fewer incidents per rider mile.
Wow. So is the operation on his belly area for the hernia-like injury? I was kind of surprised to hear about that, because it seemed like just the cuts and abrasions when I last saw him. Does it seem like the hernia thing might have happened from the kick or when he fell? I wish we had put more effort into finding the guys who kicked him. It's good that he got to the hospital when he did, at least.
Your sense of logic must be easily astounded seeing how you took everything I said literally. Your powers of observation are once again prompting my extrasensory abilities to kick in and let me see... You work at the Coffee Bean when you're not riding but you are a full time actor/producer/director/musician. Good luck with that.
My apologies to the hurt rida. I got caught up in the peripheral discussion. Get better so we can pin down spiral, make him wear cherry flavored chapstick and... sorry just get better.
nearly everyone knows me on this thread. nobody knows you, and your arguments are weak.
I'll write this again:
Quit hiding behind the anonymity of the internet to troll our friendly message board, and start doing something positive in your life, like riding a bike.
Eddie is in trouble. We have known that since Sat/ Sun. But, we don't know how bad the trouble is. It makes me think hard about how really important Eddie is....even if he won't believe that my name is, in fact, Drew. I think he got confused about me and the SD Drew. I tried to convince him that I am also Drew...but I think he just likes to think of me as tern. lol. I'm hoping for good news.
WE'RE BITING EDDIE'S STYLE WITH ALL CAPS! I LOVE EDDIE BECAUSE HE HELPED ME QUIT SMOKING CIGARETTES BY BEING AN ASSHOLE AT THE LAST WOLFPACK DRAG RACE. I RAN OUT OF ROLLING PAPERS AND HE WOULDN'T GIVE ME ONE TO ROLL A CIGARETTE. THE CRAVING GOT TO MY HEAD, AND I DECIDED THAT NO PERSON OR THING WOULD HAVE THAT KIND OF POWER OVER ME AGAIN.
According to his last text, he should be in surgery now. Still not sure exactly what it is, but my guess is that it has to to with a rupture in his lower intestine. Again, I don't have all the facts, but it looks like its not a major ordeal - Just something that needs to get done. I'll post as soon as he recovers. He promised to let me know as soon as he was able.
ridazz, i say the following knowing i'll likely be called a troll and shot down for my negativity. so i preface it with, i don't know shit and have never been on a crank mob ride... though i have been on crank many times and associated with mobsters in my youth.
like in fashion and movements (ie crank mob) lifecycles begin when trend setters or opinion makers create something unique. when it catches on, it grows in the shape of a pyramid. as it expands in popularity, the masses populating the bottom of the pyramid, who join late, are universes away from the thinking of those at the top. they are followers, not leaders. they are the lowest common denominator in society. Typically, before long, the original trend setters have moved on to newer things (rides) and all that is left is a mob of poseurs.
from what i've read about the evolution of the CRANK MOB, this is how i believe it will likely progress.
Anyone know if he has family or other next of kin who can legally get an update on his status. You may not get the most coherent response from Eddie when he's out.
IT SOUNDS LIKE HE'S GOING TO BE ASLEEP FOR FOUR HOURS, SO THE ACTUAL SURGERY PROBABLY TAKES LESS. THAT'S STILL NOT TRIVIAL, OBVIOUSLY, BUT NOT A NINE-HOUR ORDEAL, EITHER. THE REST OF THE TIME IS PROBABLY MONITORING AND RECOVERY.
I'm sure your kidding Nixon, but in case you were serious about the Trailer portion, that is a really bad idea. Nothing like tearing open the internal wounds that have just been sutured up on a bumpy ride home.
If he needs a ride, my car or many others are standing by to give him a lift.
Now, if we wanted to have a bike ride back to his place from the hospital, i'm sure we could have the car follow the ride or vice versa.
OF COURSE I WAS KIDDING ABOUT PUTTING EDDIE ON A TRALER. HE'S SUCH A BADASS RIDA HE'LL BE RIDING HOME FROM COUNTY.
ANYBODY KNOW IF HE WILL BE STAYING OVERNIGHT AGAIN? MAYBE THE CHILL CHINATOWN RIDE COULD SWING BY THE HOSPITAL - ITS LESS THAN 2 MILES FROM WHERE THAT RIDE STARTS
OK, Here's the lowdown - Eddie is out of the hospital.
According to Eddie, they were going to do surgery, but after the ultrasound they found nothing wrong but a build up fluid in his pelvic region. They were able to ice it down. And hes able to walk fine. So hes in good shape. He's eating a hamburger right now and insists on taking the train home even though I told him I will pick him up. He said they just took forever to do anything there, that's why he took so long. Now he just wants out. He'll be able to ride soon and he's just a little beat up is all.
So he's fine. No worries.
And remember to NEVER RIDE ON THE SIDEWALK on big group rides. That's what happened. What we need to find out is the other people who got hurt how they are doing. Anybody know?
Eddie we are going to call you from LACM and have you speak to the group through the PA system, just like Harry did when he was 40,000 ft over Greenland.
I realize that we don't know how much all of this will cost Eddie yet, but I figure we should try to get everyone on a common path if we are going to try to help him.
Do we know if he has zero insurance or is just under insured? It makes a huge difference.
Are we thinking of a ride for Eddie as a fundraiser, or is every ride a fundraiser for awhile? A few people could be designated collectors. It's easier if help flows to specific people who can pool it and keep track of it.
Some sort of online presence would be helpful.
I would put forward the idea that rather than drinking one.....or many for Eddie, you hang on to that buck or two or ten and put toward his recovery.
I'm sure others have some cool ideas for ways to help.
The Chicken Leather 24 hour radiothon? Hey it could happen! !
my friend and i were trying to drive him to the hospital after crank mob but he didnt want to go saying he will be okay. fuck i feel so bad now. we should have taken him. sorry guys and eddie.
"ICE IT DOWN" - IF I HAD A NICKEL FOR EVERYTIME I'D HEARD THAT
I'D HAVE TEN CENTS. GOOD TO HEAR EDDIE IS STABLE RIGHT NOW.
AS BORFO SAYS - WE STILL KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TOW OF THE OTHER PEOPLE. THERE'S THE GUY FROM LAFIXED WHO WOKE UP IN THE HOSPITAL WHO SEEMS TO BE FINE, ALBEIT A LITTLE RECALCITRANT. THERE'S THE GIRL WHO REPORTEDLY GASHED HER HEAD OPEN ON THE WAY HOME - DON'T KNOW NUFFIN. ****AND**** THERE IS THE GUY THAT WRECKED ON VIA MARINA, BLED A WHOLE BUNCH, AND LAFD PUT IN AN AMBULANCE - DON'T KNOW NUFFIN.
You must sign this waiver before you ride, have completed 3 of the 15 small group rides, and have passed your BUI riding test!
Eddie, I’m glad they released you. Heal!
Alex, check out bicyclemessenger.org, a non-profit that helps out messengers hurt in the line of duty with a $300 check. I can’t imagine a fund going out and dolling money to support injuries, legal fees, bail money, etc. Say what you will about bike commuting and raising awareness, there’s nothing honorable about what ills we do on Crank Mob (reckless biking crashes and the victims of reckless bikers on social rides).
In surfing, the good surfers ride the good breaks and keep out those who pose a hazard to others. One has to build up cred. I love how welcoming the LA bike community is. To stay this way, as a community, we need to get together and self-police to keep out the bad elements. That may include but is not limited to reckless bikers and those that steal from 7-Elevens.
I say if anyone notices a shoplifter on a ride let someone with a chainbreaker know about it and that shoplifter can walk his bike home with his chain in his pocket.
No confrontation needed. Just do it while hes in the store being an asshole.
eddie: phew! glad you didn't lose you dick.
R.I.C.E.= Rest ICE Compression Elevation (don't avoid the ice. it's your best friend; better than you dick).
the second most disappointing thing on this thread is that those of you who have established themselves in these forums and on the rides, are so unwelcoming to new/unknown voices that have oppositional ("negative") comments and opinions that perhaps aren't worded so carefully as to not break any eggshells. your responses to try to curb their negativity comes across just as negative (from my perspective).
and DEATH HAPPENS! even on a bicycle. yes, we'd prefer to avoid it at all costs, but it is a reality.
I think what was said to that guy was maybe a little harsh but remember he was making those very poorly worded comments in a thread that was still trying to figure out if eddie was in major surgery or not. BAD TIMING.
perhaps it was bad timing and perhaps he was the most eloquent of speakers, but i don't think that it justified the responses that he received. to say "everyone knows me and no one knows you" , or "shut the fuck up, troll', etc. reminded me of grade school. it would have been nice to see someone address the realities of some of the points he mentioned.
Annie. here is what that guy said... don't tell me you think it is accurate. WE ALL DIE? are you kidding? For a comment to be taken seriously it has to conform to some sort of logical reality. Nothing in the history of MR has or ever will lead to someone killing a motorist. thats absurd. If anything someone will be struck by a car and killed. LETS WORRY ABOUT THE REAL PROBLEMS AND NOT MAKE UP WILD SCENARIOS TO SCARE EVERYONE.
His comment posted below
Here is the future of not only MR but all group rides in LA. The rides will get bigger and bigger over time and at the same time they will get more unruly and disorganized because the "leadership" ,aka guys with megaphones and bullhorns, will continue to insist that no one is really leading the ride, although de facto they are, and will continue to encourage weed smoking and drinking on the rides. This will spiral out of control until someone gets killed because they shouldn't be riding or the fixed gear and bmx 13 year olds (mentally) will drag a confused mother out of her minivan and beat her Rodney King style. Then the city, the pigs the general public will put an end to something which is in theory supercool.
daend
So either we change the ride or we all die. The powers that be don't care if it's MR, CM or the douchebag Crank Mob. They will stop all rides for everyone.
It's unfortunate that he was a scapegoat during an uncertain time. I was sincerely worried about eddie, and I knew nothing I could do would help. So I took it out on a troll stranger.
yeah an exaggeration. When a bunch of people are waiting to hear the medical condition of their friend its a REAL bad time to tell them they are all going to die.
* "I'm all for everyone's right to ride. I think everyone who shows up is. For the sake of those of us who want to ride and not express ourselves politically I just want to know if the ride is being set up to mess with the police which I think you just confirmed. So that's all. It's not fair to the majority of people who are there to ride not help make the point for the few of you who know how the cops are out there. I guess everyone needs an issue right and if you don't have one make one up. Good luck on your life as a future has been hippie."
* "The only way to change this group is to start a new ride or help make other rides bigger and better. Obviously one can't be critical of the organizers of MR here or without getting jumped on. It's too bad something that could be so cool ends up being retarded. That is my final word. Til then you midnight ridazz keep trying to different and when everyone has a bike you can help bring walking back into the mainstream. That's what you guys are all about."
* "I admit I was a bit crass and do apologize. I think the vast majority of the people on these rides are totally cool and have good intentions. I guess my anger was directed at the fact that although the organizers gave their time and effort to set the ride up which is appreciated, they seem to ignore the inherent responsibility with setting up any organized event with such a large group of people especially when they are on bikes. The event could be so good for a long time but I think the way it seems to be going something bad is going to happen and that will be end of group rides for everyone in the city. So keep that in mind that really is my last post so you guys can have your site back for yourselves."
Hmm.... I guess the truth just hurt a little. We're so defensive, huh?
I'm sorry I told you to shut the fuck up, Mele99z.
Keep telling us how it is, however you feel like. Hopefully we will improve from your statements. This is really my last post too.
And when I say "killing me," I of course mean "causing my biological death." Because it's certainly not possible that I could just be employing a metaphor, or anything crazy like that. That's crazy talk!
His later comments are more toned down but still somewhat erroneous. For the most part Crank mob and other such party rides take a lot of care to make sure riders are safe. A lot of people do call out obstacles and if you yell at cars or antagonize the police you will be called out for it most of the time. I've been told to be nicer to security guards by other riders... and with good reason.
To simply state that we are out to get the police is absurd. We spend countless hours looking for ways to make our rides something that the police can feel safe leaving alone.
The organizers are not responsible for the actions of an individual. They have no authority to stop EVEN ONE PERSON if that person is dead set on being a fucktard.
Individuals are responsible for their own actions and can only be held accountable by the police or the overwhelming disdain of their fellow riders. rules can't stop someone that doesn't think rules matter.
Alex,
Just saying a lot of people have thrown around the idea of setting up a non-profit fund to cover under-insured cyclist getting injured in LA. Although i see it working in the messenger circle, I can't imagine it working in the Ridazz community because the rides are elective and many accidents involve alcohol. Take Zuko getting hit by someone who went the wrong way on Jedi. He was not at fault, and I can see a non-profit fund support his medical. Now if the guy hit him had no good reason to go the wrong way (saber tooth tiger?), then should Midnight Ridazz medical insurance support that down cyclist? Should we carry those who don't hold their lines? Do we help all injured cyclist or just the innocent ones?
I'm glad the collective iq in here is barely higher than the current temp outside. The word that genius was searching for is "hyperbole"
Hyperbole (pronounced /haɪˈpɝːbəli/ hye-PER-buh-lee; "HYE-per-bowl" is a mispronunciation) comes from Greek "υπερβολή"=exaggeration and is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, and is not meant to be taken literally.
Hyperbole is used to create emphasis. It is a literary device often used in poetry, and is frequently encountered in casual speech.
Some examples include:
these books weigh a ton. (weigh a great deal)
I could sleep for a year. (for a long time)
So reread the statment about we all die in this context and you may sleep better tonight. Also you can attack dissenters as much as you please but that does not change the reality of the bike rides needing to improve. Everyone on here wants them to keep going; however, blasting everyone who isn't part of your minimum wage new age grunge picked on in high school I have issues with my daddy they picked me last in gym class I think I'm an artist fraternity does not progress the cause of making collective biking better.
Peace
Glad to hear Eddie is doing better
ps demon I totally get why you attacked me so viciously so to put you at ease I use the name mlee but I'm actually not Asian, stop hating on your own people.
mlee99z, I initially defended your statement, until you came right back with the hurtful words. That's why I said it might not be a good idea to repost. Some of weren't too interested in hearing you defend yourself at that moment. Sheesh...give it a rest. You might not know it, but there are all kinds of people that make up midnight ridazz...some of us are homeless, jobless, some of us are service workers, some of us are public employees (including lapd officers), some of us are teachers and professors and doctors and couch surfers. Stop trying to pigeon hole us.
And, as for your critique of our efforts and methods, I think they fall a bit short. We have grappled with solutions to problems similar to the ones encountered today in the past. And, these rides are growing so quickly, that answers aren't so easy. But, at lest we are doing something. My impression is that your critique comes from an armchair prospective. How many rides have you planned? How many tires and mechanicals have you helped other stranded riders fix? How many people have you provided with things they need, like water, a sweater, some good advice, a slow ride to show the way home when lost? How many fights have you diffused? How many people have you provided first-aid, or a ride home? I think that some of the reaction you got today came from people who are fully invested in doing the best that they can to help these rides, and create a positive environment for bike culture in general. Singling people out will get you nowhere. Arguing is not really productive. How 'bout we give it a rest.
by the way, you are fully welcome to do any of the things I mentioned above. If you want, you can take a stab at planning a ride....or you can bring extra tubes and tools to rides...etc. There is no top down hierarchy here. That's what makes it so beautiful. Bad things sometimes happen, and bad elements sometimes attach themselves to rides and interfere, but, like someone else recently said...that seems to be the ebb and flow of the thing we have. That's the way it goes.
I guess it is the way it is. I've only gone on rides here for the past 6 months and have seen things get progressively worse. As for your attack comments it is human nature to fight back when the entire board attacks anyone who is not part of the clique. I just can't stand the lemming mentality of most of the people on here. Why can't there be any original thought without the majority screaming like a bunch of first graders? I'll do my best to publicize the fact that these rides are probably not a good idea for most real riders, something many old schoolers tried to impress upon me. I can't stand the continuous crying about personal responsibility when you all don't want to let novice riders know the truth about how shitty your rides end up. At least give them that so 18 year old girls won't have to ride home alone through MS13 territory at 1:30 in the morning. You would think this site would be used to convey important and useful information. Instead it is a glorified myspace page with every asshole yelling "troll" if you don't post something pointlessly benign. That's all. Just say hey folks our rides are completely disorganized and you will have the potential of getting arrested because we like to draw the ire of the police for the sake of being irreverent. We will leave you at our farthest point at 2 am because we want to drink and smoke weed. Get home anyway you can since you are responsible for yourself 100%. If you don't say this, the average rider who just got into town last week will assume some group will ride back safely somewhat near the starting point which is in fact a reasonable assumption.
I wasn't trying to attack you. I was trying to be nice...and trying to give an opinion on the conversation on the board today. I won't say anything more...good luck to you.
Why can't there be any original thought without the majority screaming like a bunch of first graders?
How on earth would you know? You certainly haven't expressed any original thoughts here.
Some of the points you make--once they've been carefully extracted from the reams of lazy stereotyping and deliberately provocative douchebaggery in which you wrap them, and weighed on their own merits--are actually valid, but don't flatter yourself that you are the first, or even one of the first, ever to express them. Discussion about BUI, aggression towards motorists, etc. are as old as the urban social bike riding scene. Nothing you have said about it hasn't been said before. In most cases it's been said much better.
Oh...but, wait. Did I say that you hadn't expressed any original thoughts on this forum? I'm sorry; that's wrong. You did express one: you claimed that the organizers of the Alphabet ride deliberately took the ride through Santa Monica so as to provoke a reaction from the police. That was original. And some people did react pretty negatively to that thought. Do you want to know why? Well, I'm going to tell you anyway: it's because what you said was arrantly, howlingly, breathtakingly fucking stupid, and it betrayed an utter ignorance and misunderstanding of the motivations (to say nothing of the history) of the people who organized that ride.
I've asserted and will continue to assert your right to have and express your opinion on this board, but let's get real for a minute. Holding a minority view does not make you a misunderstood genius. You're no Galileo, kid. You're not even a Gallagher. You're more like the watermelon. SPLAT. If you aspire to be something more than a stage prop that makes a mess, start thinking about the way you articulate your thoughts in public.
mlee99z, you have some valid criticisms, but most of them are already being addressed by the community. The negative response to your posts is due to the fact that you are insulting people, mischaracterizing the nature of the rides, and then acting indignant when people call you a troll.
If you want people to listen to you here, don't write anything that you wouldn't say to someone's face. And if you want to make the rides better, start acting like it. Were you at Crank Mob? Did you do anything that would help make things go more smoothly on that ride, or on any of the rides that you say turned out so shitty? This community does what it can to take care of fellow Ridazz. if you feel that it hasn't done enough, then start helping.
I've tried to stay out of the argument going on in this thread, but I must ask a question.
Mlee or whatever, what is your definition of a "real rider" something you mentioned in your last post.
I'd seriously like to know.
Many of the people you are attacking in this thread ride bicycles more than pretty much anyone I have ever met. We have people on this board that commute 60 miles a day on bicycles, we have others that haven't owned a car in years, if ever, some have never even driven a car, some work every day on their bicycles, some build their own bicycles, and still others are categorized racers (and none of these categories are exclusive to each other). Like tern said, we have people from all walks of life involved in ridazz.
Sure some rides end up far from where they start, but that is the nature of cycling, or anything transit based. It's a pretty fair assumption that no matter where a ride ends up, there will be people going back to where it started, and there have been non-loop rides going on about as long as ridazz.
The issue of personal responsibility is mentioned a lot on this board, because it is a major issue. It's a major issue in Society as a whole, not just here, however here we try to emphasize it a bit. It's part of the nature of cycling. There is no AAA for bicycles, and sure while there are many ridazz who are kind and generous enough to donate their time to help others, many do it VERY often, it is out of their own personal generosity (often at their own personal expense), and most ridazz who stop to help another rida with a flat or whatever will talk to that person, emphasizing to that person that they should carry what they need to get themselves back on the road, and not only fixing their flat for them, but TEACHING them how. However, mechanicals are not the only part of personal responsibility. If you end up somewhere on a ride, it is, in the end, your own responsibility to get yourself home. You got yourself to the furthest point on the ride, you pedaled that far, if it was too far then you weren't paying attention to your own ability. I see people cut out on rides all the time, for all kinds of reasons, and it doesn't even really matter where a ride ends up, even if it ends at the start point, you still have to get home, and being Los Angeles, that can mean many different areas lie between your home and the start/end of a ride. Don't like the neighborhood you are riding through"? Well, you pedaled in there. This city is huge, pick a different route next time.You put yourself in that situation, and as cld as this sounds, you need to be the one to deal with it.
As to riding home through ms13 "territory" or whatever, 90 percent of this city is some sort of gang "territory" or another, and if you're worried about that, then it is YOUR responsibility to find someone to ride with, or somewhere to stay, not the ride "organizers". Organizers who are basically saying "I'm going riding at this place and time, come with me if you WANT to." Sure some rides run late, however, the idea of MIDNIGHT ridazz is that we ride at night. No one is forced to ride on these rides. It's strictly voluntary. If there are issues as a whole, well, those who care about rides, and do them often, or not, but care, will attempt to solve them, however, like ANY social issue, these things take time and trial and error. I am sorry if these rides are not the utopia you were hoping for. We're human, and sure we'd like them to go of perfectly every time, sometimes they do, it's rare, but sometimes they do, most often they don't. You're talking about human interaction, and things which take time and effort to solve, things we are working on. There's no guidebook or manual to these sort of things. We, and by we I mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON who goes on a ride, is responsible to how the ride turns out.
I feel like the reasons you got the reactions you got on this thread are several, and in the end it comes back to how you yourself approached this situation. You came onto this thread, at a time when many of us were worried about the physical well being of someone who we care about, and started accusing people. This is immediately going to create an adverse reaction, tensions were high and people snapped at you, however, as most of us are human, most apologized for their actions. However; I feel that the main reason for the reaction you received was due to the fact that you came on here accusing people and attacking something we all care about (this community and what we do, something we invest a lot of time and in many cases money into), attacking, and not providing any sort of constructive anything. This is what probably got you called a troll, as this is what trolls do, and being the internet, we have had to deal with them before.
some of what msleezy's saying is true to an extent. stevestevesteve once said on the boards something to the effect of we run red lights (yet, we get pissed and cry foul when a car does the same.), we drink on rides (some even when riding, not just at stops) (yet, we would cry foul if a car driver had a beer in his / her hand, we cork (yet we would cry foul if cars ran all their red lights (without police escort), we argue about cars riding in our bike lane (yet we take up all lanes sometimes on rides, when we don't need to). What we do on group rides in a lot of cases is totally contradictory to how we live our daily lives away from bikes.
The rides are dangerous in most cases anytime alcohol or weed (assuming nobody's on coke, smack, meth, etc.) is involved which is almost every ride for certain individuals.
Someone is going to die on one of these rides in some manner and it's gonna be hard to look back in hindsight and say "we shoulda done things differently" when a lot of shit could have been done differently.....now....not later.
I don't know all the answers but one of them is to cut the drinking in 1/2 at the very least.
THIS WHOLE THREAD topic based on a FALSE premise; that something can be done to MAKE ridazz safe on rides, and MAKE rides safe themselves.
It is a Ridazz total personal responsibility to keep themselves in situations that are within their comfort and safety zone. This is true in all situations in life.
All rides have characteristics and a life of their own. They are not corporate entities with brands. They are wild unpredictable events, like riding a bronco, not disney's autopia. The moment the ride begins, very little control can be kept.
If someone comes out for a midnight ride (anytime anywhere) thinking they are going to be cradled in a bubble of softness, they will quickly learn that that is not the case. It is no one else's (ride leader) responsibility to state the obvious; "you are riding a bicycle in the black of the night in a big city with a mass of strangers who are visibly drunk and ignoring traffic laws."
Sure, ride leaders can make a safety announcement at the start of the ride that only a handful will hear and less will listen to that will assuage their guilt. No harm in that.
If a ride becomes hugely popular and attracts both idiots and newbies (a dangerous mix) then that will be the characteristic of that ride. EnjoyIt=Return, HateIt=FindAnother
Alcohol and other substances are probably involved in the vast majority of accidents on these rides. Cutting back on drinking would cut back on accidents, but how much control does an organizer really have over that?
We can set down guidelines, but people will choose to have fun however they want. It's a free country, as they say... Discouraging drinking isn't going to have much influence on those who have basically come out with getting wasted as one of their main goals for the evening. In fact, vocally discouraging drinking would probably make some people (particularly our younger, more immortal associates) drink more, just to flout authority.
I'm all for more riding and less drinking, but of course, more riding means more opportunities for accidents. The safest party ride would probably be one where we didn't ride at all*, but how lame would that be?
On the other hand, you could make the whole thing riding with no stops for drinking, but at that point, it could cease to be a party ride, which wouldn't go over very well with a lot of people. It would mean less jump rope, for sure.
On the older MR rides, there were no liquor stops, but there were afterparties. The ratio pf partying to riding was about the same, but they didn't necessarily happen at the same time.
If you want to maintain the non-stop party atmosphere while still cutting back on drinking, you could make the stops be at places that don't sell liquor. I've made this suggestion before, but I really have no idea how well it would cut back on accidents. I honestly think that the F.U.N. content of the ride would remain the same, though.
Anyway, those are just a few things to consider. So long as there are new riders, there will be growing pains. There's really only so much you can do at an organizational level to prevent accidents. But cutting down on the drinking and increasing the safety awareness of the riding population are probably the two major things that need to be done, and both of these can be influenced by ride organization. Who knows, maybe after a couple years, we'll have such a large population of experienced Ridazz that safety is just a natural part of the ride. We can dream, right? In the mean time, hold yer line, y' bastards.
*But even a no-ride party ride could end up being dangerous. The only injuries I've ever sustained on an MR ride have been from climbing around on things when I get bored during the stops, which is also a bad combination with drinking.
"I'm all for more riding and less drinking" --- this is all fine and good. there are plenty of rides like this. or, plan a sober ride.
this topic was all started because CRANK MOB was becoming increasingly dangerous because of excessive drinking and hoodlum behavior. S&S is a drinking ride but less dangerous because, I think, the downtown location keeps the teenage newbie and reckless riders from coming out.
I've never seen real problems on ANY other party ride. This is about CRANK MOB. Ride at your own delight and risk.
I don't know about everyone else, but all of this oratory and lament (including my own) has put a really bad taste in my mouth, so to speak. I"m done with this thread.
You know I agree pretty well with what both indigis and nathan said. It's people's own responsibility to maintain safety on rides, sure we can inform people a bit, but it is, in the end up to them when they put that can or bottle or whatever to their lips.
indigis, I was responding to barleye's suggestion that drinking be cut in half in order to reduce accidents. I'm not trying to advocate a teetotaling ride, just throwing out suggestions for ways to decrease drinking-related accidents. Some of these could even be put into practice on C.R.A.N.K. MOB without fundamentally altering the nature of the ride, but obviously, that is not my decision to make.
This thread is about C.R.A.N.K. MOB, but it's relevant to lots of rides. I've only been doing rides for three months since I've been back in town, but having seen accidents on the Jedi Ride and Gnarzilla in addition to C.R.A.N.K. MOB, I get the impression that safety concerns aren't limited to one ride. Sins and Sprockets may have fewer inexperienced riders, but it's also exceptionally well-organized, with easily-identifiable leaders and designated riders running sweep.
It sounds like fundamentally we're in agreement that everyone is responsible for their own safety, but I don't think that searching for ways to make rides safer is a lost cause.
This thread was started to keep people updated on Eddie's injuries. It was turned into what it is now. I like Eddie and this is gonna sound corny, but if we can learn from this crash that it can happen to any one of us, then so be it.
Personally we should have stopped Eddie's wish to continue the ride Saturday night. He was all about "it's only once a month, I gotta catch up, etc." I was the first to get to him when he slammed and I saw him slide on the ground full speed...and I saw him when he turned over all bloody barely coherent saying some dude roundhoused him. i even said a few times "sit the fuck down over there"...he was having none of that...he just wanted to ride..
He's a grown man so there's just so much you can do and he's the most stubborn mofo i've ever met.
I didn't see anyone kick him or anyone running away from the area for that matter. anyhow, this one crash opened our eyes to what can happen. Nobody has died and I hope there's never a thread about it happening on a so-called party ride.
well i've been reading the entire discussion and i definitely agree with a lot of things that everyone has been saying in terms of ideas to keep the rides/ridazz safer. just want to let you all know that i'll be taking all these ideas into account when planning the next C.MOB.
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Ridazz Roulette!
I have a few photos of Eddie after the crash,
ga
CRANK MOB style potluck den dinner
I agree that WE need to help other riders understand and appreicate that there actions affect the rest of us. I will be more vocal towards riders that are (in my opinion) affecting the ride in negatives ways. If vocal does not work, next level shit might happen, if not, me and Masterblaster will just have to kick the morons ass!!!!!
He's on his way now --->
Here's a Happy Eddie from the West LA Ride Arc ride recently. Hope to see him this happy again.
ALL GOOD THINGS TO EDDIE.
WE'RE BITING EDDIE'S STYLE WITH ALL CAPS! I LOVE EDDIE BECAUSE HE HELPED ME QUIT SMOKING CIGARETTES BY BEING AN ASSHOLE AT THE LAST WOLFPACK DRAG RACE. I RAN OUT OF ROLLING PAPERS AND HE WOULDN'T GIVE ME ONE TO ROLL A CIGARETTE. THE CRAVING GOT TO MY HEAD, AND I DECIDED THAT NO PERSON OR THING WOULD HAVE THAT KIND OF POWER OVER ME AGAIN.
pinche cabron, get well soon vato loco lots rides to conquest!!!
TELL YA WHAT EDDIE, NO MORE SPARKS AND LETS GET BACK TO BASICS, CERVEZA - TECATE LOL, CUIDATE VATO
THE EDDIE RIDE!
EDDIE SEND ME AN EMAIL SAYING IT WAS OK TO POST HIS PICS. HOPE YOU ARE OK FROM THE OPERATION AND GET WELL SOON!!!!
EDDIE IS SUCH A TROOPER THAT HE WAS STILL WORKING ON GETTING HIS BIKE IN SHAPE TO FINISH THE RIDE!!! WHAT A BADASS MUTHERF**KER!!! RIDE ON EDDIE!!!
PIC #3 LATER AT RALPHS MDR, I STILL CANNOT BELIEVE THAT HE CAUGHT UP WITH THE RIDE.
PIC #4 FULL BODY SHOT SHOWING EDDIE'S CHEST WHERE THE GUY KICKED HIM.
analbeadman: the ultimate troll!
GLAD TO SEE YOU'RE GOING TO BE WELL EDDIE. JUST STAY HOME AND SMOKE OUT FOR A WEEK OR TWO. WE'LL STILL BE AROUND.
just back from the lab today...
This is how it really happened.