New Bus Fares are approved
Thread started by
feelingrandy at 05.25.07 - 11:52 am
I think we will be seeing a lot more bikes on the road thanks to the new fare hikes approved today.
Starting July the MTA Day pass will go from $3 to $5.
reply
That sucks ass. I hope the money will at least pay the drivers better.
Theres nothing we can do?...
Joe Borfo05.25.07 - 12:00 pm
reply
Nope from what I know it's been set in stone.
http://mta.net/news_info/press/metro_092.htm
feelingrandy05.25.07 - 12:13 pm
reply
fucking dumb idiots. they used the criteria that NY SF and CHI charge comparable rates but.... the fledgling transit system here is not even close to the high quality high reach transit systems those other cities have.
the subway and transit system here should be subsidized by GAS taxes if anyone had a fucking brain in the city council or whom ever is supposed to make these decisions. I bet you could raise gas by 10 cents a gallon and subsidize a huge transit system. which would lessen the amount of traffic which would save people money in the long run. I know I know furious resistance from motorists and the oil and gas lobby....
oh yeah, and abandon the idea that each station needs to be its own art project and make it functional and economical rather than with a bunch of fake ass low rider art or whatever crap they choose to decorate the shit with and whom ever artist got paid bank to use expensive custom materials blah blah...
I bet they could have built 3 or 4 additional regular boring yet incredibly functional submay terminals for the price of the materials and artist costs that these retards used for one of those architectural non wonders like the santa monica vermont, vine hollywood and beverly vermont stations. does anyone appreciate that fake ass low rider art at the vine station?
Roadblock05.25.07 - 12:14 pm
reply
so, they only raised the price on the day passes? or on all fares?
cured105.25.07 - 12:28 pm
reply
I think the price of the art is negliable to the cost of digging the hole and everything that it includes.
Art is subjective to everyones taste. I think people really get a kick outta of the film reels in the other part of the station.
The art work might of come from a different fund, or it could be mandiated, I don't know, I some how doubt you do either.
I like the art, but agree they MTA should uses their funds differently
I would much rather have the money spent for functional art piece that bring water in and out of seperate rooms for men and women.
The art that flushes, I think they call it "Toilet".
I am very much liking the recent Rants of Roadblock. I just hope you don't decide to apologize to some artist or low rider in the future.
Speak your mind, Tell em Roadblock.
sexy05.25.07 - 12:30 pm
reply
"oh yeah, and abandon the idea that each station needs to be its own art project and make it functional and economical"
I agree. Get rid of it, and use the money for something else. One thing I hate is waiting for the metro and I don't know when the next one is coming, they need to adopt the line alerts like that of SF.
My hate of waiting for the bus in LA is what got me into riding my bicycle. So yay for the lousy service.
The one way rides are staying at $1.25 and will stay that way till 2009.
feelingrandy05.25.07 - 12:32 pm
reply
I think it went to $5 in July for day pass and $6 the next year
monthly passes are to go up to $62 next year, and $75 the following.
I think, I think
The Bus riders union have been doing a good bad at fighting the fare increases.
I heard 1200 people showed up at the meeting yesterday.
three overflow rooms full a concerned riders (Transit that is)
sexy05.25.07 - 12:36 pm
reply
Hey Sexy.
All the fare hikes are in the link I posted above.
:)
feelingrandy05.25.07 - 12:42 pm
reply
the transit system is dieing for money. DIEING. so any funds that could go to building an actual functional piece of civic infrastructure would be greatly appreciated. sure... people might get a kick out of seeing film reels and all the nifty homogenized lowrider decorations but at the end of the day that shit is expensive and the funds that went into design, planning, execution, materials manufacture the cost of the process to choose an artist et al could have been spent putting in even 1/8 or 1/4 mile of additional track. THEN later, once the actual functional part is laid out and done and all areas of LA are united by rail and transit and the budget is HEALTHY then maybe they could talk about putting some art on it. I'm an artist but seriously fuck art. form follows function. art has it's place with the people. I dont know maybe each station could be dressed up by the locals of the community AFTER it's built and functioning for a few years. not by some bullshit city council art committee. to me, real art is in the streets and in the garages and apartments and homes of the locals of the neighborhoods.
go to new york and see that their sophisticated and highly functional subway has little to do with decorations and much to do with moving people around. that should be the defining principal of our transit system here. otherwise it's pretty much a joke or a tourist mover.
if the city was flush with transit dollars than sure spend some on an artist - a local of the people artist- to put up some art but until then lets use the desperately needed funds to actually make something functional.
Roadblock05.25.07 - 12:44 pm
reply
"agree. Get rid of it, and use the money for something else. One thing I hate is waiting for the metro and I don't know when the next one is coming, they need to adopt the line alerts like that of SF."
AMEN
Roadblock05.25.07 - 12:48 pm
reply
The Metro demonstrated their ability to plan ahead by scheduling the fare increase hearings in a room that held 300 people.
The crowd that showed up resulted in the building being closed until they could implement crowd control measures. (They opened the cafeteria, a meeting room and two conference rooms and still had to hold people in the lobby and then still more outside!)
The Fire Department showed up, the Sheriff's Department deployed their top Metro Dog, The Transit Police were woken from much desired naps and deployed throughout the building!
There were several cyclists in attendance, speaking on an array of perspectives, through it all, pointing out that this is the time for a demonstration of POLITICAL WILL, not fare increases or service reductions.
The money exists, it's just going to the wrong projects!
SoapBoxLA05.25.07 - 1:21 pm
reply
Seriously, the city needs to stop adding lanes to freeways and stop giving taxpayer money to developers who are getting rich building mcmansions in the desert. And did you see snoble's description of our "great" public transport system. The guy's oblivious. Wanna save some funds, don't give that asshole a golden parahchute when he leaves next year.
420LaHaRR05.25.07 - 1:30 pm
reply
how about putting a subway underneath every freeway in LA? then you wont have anymore outcry from homeowners threatened by constrution woes. and someone spank that numbnut Waxman (the guy who passed a law essentially blocking the complettion of the wilshire redline ) for making any decisions concerning public transit.
Roadblock05.25.07 - 1:39 pm
reply
soapbox man you are really on top of shit! bravo
Roadblock05.25.07 - 1:45 pm
reply
Thank God fares have increased by a little. To run any great transit system you depend on some fare box recovery. The knee jerk reaction here in LA is to be unduly cynical regarding the MTA missing out on whom should really be to blame. The car and oil lobby! You know the lobby that funds the BRU??? Yeah, they fund the BRU and recruit a bunch of poor ignorant souls to shout "1,000 busses"! Oh yeah, I'm forgetting the bus driver and mechanics as well. You know the ones who get paid about 4 times the amount of an average bus rider and who went on strike in 2003 and the BRU supported while Maria who needed to still get to BeHi lost her job. Really good, fighting for the poor.......??? Busses run on what?? Trains run on what?? Busses run almost always at-grade fighting w/ traffic and cars and traffic and cars and traffic and cars but never winning. Subways and grade seperated rail doesn't do that. The last thing the asshole car and oil (and tire manufactures too) want is LA to become awash w/ grade seperated trains (subway or elevated) and for people to re-think buying that, yes, even that Prius much less that Hummer. Also busses seem to carry a stigma to them in this city, so it works out fine!!! Poor stay on busses believing that more and more busses will get them some place faster.....It's all a lie! As in Paris, NYC, London and even earthquake prone Tokyo...grade seperated rail is the only way to go. None of these cities have a bus dominant system. And please don't throw that "LA is so spread out bullshit" because so is Tokyo and London covers over 700 sq miles and still uses commuter rail that goes out even further. A rail system is do-able here but we all need to suck it up and understand that this could have been done many decades ago but the racist Westside particularly Hancock Park and Beverly Hills opposed it, so it didn't happen. Also once again the car and oil lobby reared their ugly heads too. Remember at one time LA had the most EXTENSIVE LIGHT RAIL/STREETCAR SYSTEM IN THE WORLD!! What happened??? Torn up and dismantled for busses. Yes, the tire and oil and auto manufacturers thought it would be great if this entire region became their slaves.........And you just don't have your facts straight about what cities have good transit and which don't. The only US city worth mentioning w/ good transit is NYC! Chicago and SF are greatly overrated. LA has more track miles + more stations than SF and their commuter rail compared to our nascent Metrolink really sucks>>>> I personally like the art in the metro stations, sets it apart, makes it more interesting. Besides the MTA only reserves something like 1% of the rail building budget to the art. And believe me none of the artists are buying up condos downtown. Busses and trains can work togther. Rail is the only long lasting solution for LA. Oh yeah, the bus drivers like the idea of more busses because purchasing "1,000" new busses means hiring another 1, 000 drivers!!! Buying 1,000 new rail cars to be placed on a 6 car heavy rail train would require only 166.6 new drivers, much less expensive overtime but not necessarily upfront. But yet yesterday the car and oil lobby covertly under the guise of the BRU gathered 1500 poor souls and huddled them together at the MTA headquarters chanting the insane "1,000 more busses" chant! Oh yeah, the MTA is racist......is that why the Blue Line goes through the white neighborhoods of Compton and Watts. and is that why they are building as we speak a rail line that goes through the lily white staunchly conservative and republican almost Orange County neighborhood of East LA?? Don't get caught up in the matrix! Trains level the playing field. Remember, "rail will prevail".....it has to or we are all fucked!
tmaxx605.25.07 - 1:47 pm
reply
the oil and car lobbies fund the Bus Rider's Union!?!?! ?!?!!
Roadblock05.25.07 - 1:54 pm
reply
well said tmaxx6, however, I must say that Boston has a well developed rail/subway system (2nd oldest in the world only to London) hell it even goes into other states. But yes, I've been saying pretty much the same thing. The only way to help this city is to stop adding to the freeways, and move that money to light rail/subways, hell, fuck heavy rail. Heavy rail is run on diesel, and in all actuality is slower in an urban setting. When the gold line is finially completed (and I don't mean just the east side extension, I mean the foothill extension which may eventually include the ontario airport making it the longest light rail in the world) I have a feeling that a large number of metrolink riders will switch over to metro, due to the fact that metrolink bases their prices of gas costs/distance, which currently is something like 13.50 for a round trip from montclair to LA while the silver streak bus is 4 dollars, and even a metro day pass with the hike will be cheaper than that. Grade seperated light rail is what this city needs, it's cheaper than subways (and harder to come up w. bullshit excuses to stop) and the fact that this city is already crisscrossed with currently vacant railway right of ways (like what they're building the expo line through) could help a bit too.
FuzzBeast05.25.07 - 1:59 pm
reply
This doesn't discount anything anybody says,
I always find it interesting to see a new person on the board and look when they been a member since.
I wonder where they came from and why, do they ride a bike?
sexy05.25.07 - 2:00 pm
reply
Roadblock said:
"and someone spank that numbnut Waxman (the guy who passed a law essentially blocking the complettion of the wilshire redline ) for making any decisions concerning public transit"
A-friggin-men to that. That shiny headed little turd is responsible for more of LA's traffic mess than any other person alive. America will be a better place when he is no longer in Congress.
NixonTwin05.25.07 - 2:11 pm
reply
I believe a Rail/Bike solution is better than a Bus/Bike one.
I believe the art at metro stops give riders a sense of ownership, in turn they will take care of the station, vs. some boring utililarian or industrial looking boring stop. [then again, those boring blank walls can become a canvas to some true local street art... 50mm...]
I believe good music is art and anyone can do it, make it, because real art is expression, not skill based.
I believe that god is in each and everyone one of us, and not some fabricated omnipresent entity.
I believe the Tacos de Papas at El Atacor #11 are the best I've ever tasted.
Do I have a witness?
the reverend dak05.25.07 - 2:20 pm
reply
"the oil and car lobbies fund the Bus Rider's Union!?!?! ?!?!!"
I'm not sure about that, but there was an article in one of the weekly papers a couple of months ago about how the BRU is run. As I recall the article, the guy who founded it pays himself and his girlfriend hefty salaries (in the six figures each) - it sounded like a nice little scam.
NixonTwin05.25.07 - 2:20 pm
reply
the artist's didn't make a lot of money...the budgets were low, and obviously the art couldn't be hard-edge, as it is intended for the "mass public"...
personally, the art isn't super hot stuff, but it is more interesting to look at than most other cities' subway systems
I know one of the artists that made some art for one of the stations, and he didn't make any bank, that's for sure...
here's a link to the metro page about how much was allocated for artwork... it was 0.5 % http://www.mta.net/about_us/metroart/default.htm
I think it's a case of trying to modernize and to keep up with other cities' transit system, and if you look at the other transit systems, the acreage they cover is not nearly as large as the metropolitan los angeles space...
san fran is about 47 sq miles, new york and the other boroughs are about 300 something sq miles, and los angeles tops out around 400 something sq. miles... if you live in the outskirts of these other cities, transit is not so hot either... yes, the other cities have good rail... and that's what they're trying to put in here also...
adrian05.25.07 - 2:20 pm
reply
Roadblock wrote:
I bet they could have built 3 or 4 additional regular boring yet incredibly functional submay terminals for the price of the materials and artist costs that these retards used for one of those architectural non wonders like the santa monica vermont, vine hollywood and beverly vermont stations.
I'll take that bet.
The money "saved" by not doing anything to make the subway stations non-dreary wouldn't even pay for the cost of digging the hole for one new station.
PC05.25.07 - 2:26 pm
reply
"the artist's didn't make a lot of money...the budgets were low, and obviously the art couldn't be hard-edge, as it is intended for the "mass public"... "
does that budget include all the artist support or the architect's fee to integrate the art into the functional design of the station and the materials costs, intsallation costs, planning etc I mean look at the santamonica and vermont station..... that big ass wing thing whatever...... how much did that cost to design and implement? 2 million? I bet more.... it might sounds like a little, but this stuff adds up and we're talking about something that is essential to the workings of a city not the LACMA. seriously, it looks like our subway was made to be attractive to tourists. I mean fine, snazz em up a little bit.... just, for the future, how about they address all the functional aspects city wide first and then come back and re-design the entrances when the city is gushing with money at some future point. it could be like a celebration of achievement type of reward or something.
Roadblock05.25.07 - 2:32 pm
reply
do they make these budgets public? it would be interesting to get the dirt I'm not convinced about the art part costing next to nothing.
Roadblock05.25.07 - 2:49 pm
reply
While we are on the budget. The one thing that ercks me about the MTA, is all the money they spend on promotion. Every print publication in Los angeles county has an ad about what Metro is doing. Who gives a F*%@ng Rats A#@s. I don't even know what they hope to accomplish with those ads. Oh yeah, they did this and that project, now I'm going to ride the Metro. No, I ride the Metro either because I need to or I took the concious choice not add to the perils of person auto traffic. I don't think "Metro Honors Employers for Rideshare Programs During 9th Annual Rideshare Diamond Awards Luncheon"
is going to get someone out of there car to take metro.
Or "Go Metro to Lummis Day Festival June 3 for Less Than the Cost of a Gallon of Gas" is get me not to take my family of five in my car for the price of $15.00 to the festival. That is unless it is overhelmingly easier to do so.
That is a waste of money. A waste of paper and a waste of resources.
Yes we got reasons to be upset about the MTA. I for one don't know enough about there budget, to truly give an educated critism.
I should, we should,and maybe we will in the future.
I mean really educated. Knowing the budget, how it came about, and why people have opposing view on certain issues.
sexy05.25.07 - 2:53 pm
reply
if every city that had a functional subway system decorated their terminals with art and exotic architecture then maybe I would see more logic in it... as it is now the subway seems more theme park than civic service.
advertising can be an effective tool. I can understand the use of advertising/marketing to get people to ride. I assume their idea is to get a new crowd involved in public transit. or at least that should be the idea..... more people using the system can only be good in terms of traffic and revenue etc. But yeah I sometimes wonder about the marketing that they do use. and in that sense the artist terminals are a form of marketing as well.......... however some words of wisdom in advertising world, the best advertising is by word of mouth. in this case if we had a functional high performance rail/transit system, they wouldnt need to market it to the public. it would simply serve the people and the people would use it.
Roadblock05.25.07 - 3:01 pm
reply
Roadblock wrote:
does that budget include all the artist support or the architect's fee to integrate the art into the functional design of the station and the materials costs, intsallation costs, planning etc
Admittedly I'm pulling this out of my ass, but I would have to guess that the costs of incorporating the art into the architecture of the stations would be minimal. Most of the art in the underground Metro stations is structurally superficial--tiles, flashing lights, and that sort of thing.
Sorry, but blaming public art for transportation budget shortfalls is a dead end. Ask instead why billions--with a "b"--of transpo dollars are being devoted to road widenings and freeway construction.
PC05.25.07 - 3:03 pm
reply
Does anybody remember when the metro/subway system was originally being built, the scandal of the contractor/city 'misplacing' millions of dollars (maybe in the order of 10's or 100's of millions of $).
Also, I recall that the original companies bidding for the construction of the rail/subway project were also wrapped in scandal as it seemed to defy logic that the contractor selected had scant expertise in mass transit development and was accused of having organized crime connections.
There was a Japanese contractor that not only had extensive experience developing mass trans systems but also proposed a magnetic driven technology that was more efficient and something like a billion dollars less expensive to build. "Nope. Don't choose them."
My point being; 'decorative art' surely is superfluous spending especially when taking the history of inadequacies in the MTA /City of LA in building our mass trans system from the beginning. Let's make the working class and lower income commuters pay for deficits in the system that were spurred on from lousy decisions (maybe even criminal) a decade ago.
Bootlegger05.25.07 - 3:09 pm
reply
from what I can tell, a lot of the art was also helped and paid for from private company donations...
I'm thinking they accounted for everything in the building process, and went through many rounds of budget allocation before deciding on doing the art and architecture thing...
If you do some searching on the MTA site, they are doing the same thing for a rail project going to Culver City...and the art allocation is not very large, compared to the overall project... and they are taking submissions!
I think it's a tough balance, if you already have a budget to build something, and if you can do it within the budget to design something cool and nice and user friendly, and not stale and boring, wouldn't you do it?
And actually, if it's a "public" entity, there should be a way to find the "public" budgets...
I also know someone who works at the metro and does the planning for the "future", and it's not an easy job, he has to look at population growth, and hypothetical situations and try to plan for something that might not happen...I haven't talked to him in a while though...
I think it's tough when things go overbudget...and budgets aren't kept...I recall when they were building the redline that things went way overbudget...
Of course, this could just all go back to mismanagement... And maybe that's why they're trying to balance it out by the fare hikes...
I mean, is it actually possible to maintain and keep this system going with $1.25 fares?
I don't think there's a simple answer, that's for sure
adrian05.25.07 - 3:10 pm
reply
"Sorry, but blaming public art for transportation budget shortfalls is a dead end. Ask instead why billions--with a "b"--of transpo dollars are being devoted to road widenings and freeway construction."
I'm not blaming the whole deal on art.... it's one of a plethora of issues that cost money in cash strapped system. the first thing and most important thing I mentioned was the car and gas lobby and with that goes all the things you mention. my side note was about the art. but the art thing is also a question of attitude that bogs down a lot about civilian infrstructure in many areas......
I'm totally influenced and in love with the civilian infrastructure in the netherlands........ it's very functional, consistent and logical. that to me says something about their society as a whole. they get that certain things are not for artistic interpretation and some things are.
Roadblock05.25.07 - 3:15 pm
reply
yeah, and I don't think the cities in Netherlands have all that crazy advertising and billboards like we do on our streets....
maybe, just maybe our subway stations can be a refuge from that...
just a thought...
let's go ride our bikes!!!
adrian05.25.07 - 3:21 pm
reply
something cool and nice and user friendly, and not stale and boring, wouldn't you do it? "
yes of course, that's what makes cities beutiful.... I just think they went to far on something that already has budget issues from get go.
simple answer in an idealistic world:
Los Angeles County Gas tax to fund public transit. 10 cents a gallon.
simple answer in a the real world:
we're fucked
Roadblock05.25.07 - 3:21 pm
reply
nope the netherlands dont have much advertising that I can remember anywhere.... I hate how ads are plastered everywhere and especially the TV's on the busses.... it's like being part of a captive audience.
Roadblock05.25.07 - 3:24 pm
reply
Are you sure you really where totally influenced and in love with the civilian infrastructure in the netherlands? It wasn't something at there cafe shops that made it very functional, consistent and logical. What really was it about their society as a whole that said something to you ?
sexy05.25.07 - 4:05 pm
reply
it was partly the fact that I COULD go into the cafe and handle it then ride across country that added to my belief that that society is far more open, progressive and functional than what we have here.......
Roadblock05.25.07 - 4:16 pm
reply
*Fart noise!* whatever Roadblock, if we like, went to war, we would kick the Netherlands' ass, so that means our society is like, better. just like how the Stalin proved Russian society was better than Finland when they kicked thier asses.
Read a history book dude, it's all about kickin ass.
City Hobgoblin05.25.07 - 6:31 pm
reply
When the bottom completely falls out of oil supplies and not enough has been done to create an alternative transportation infrastructure, the shit is really going to hit the fan. When it does, those with the legs and lungs to get around on two non-motorized wheels will rule these streets like no others ever have. It's going to get interesting to say the least.
Jeronimo05.25.07 - 6:36 pm
reply
"When the bottom completely falls out of oil supplies and not enough has been done to create an alternative transportation infrastructure, the shit is really going to hit the fan. When it does, those with the legs and lungs to get around on two non-motorized wheels will rule these streets like no others ever have. It's going to get interesting to say the least."
I kind of doubt that scenario. People will figure out alternative sources of energy, and, while we won't be seeing many H2s, I don't think we're going Chinese peasant-style anytime soon (barring some freak natural disaster.) Oil companies know what they're doing: they know they got some time to milk the oil fields and rake in the profits that way. As soon as other means are more profitable, they'll be switching gears. Those motherfuckers are smart, they're all about their $$$, they employ the top geologists in the world, so I don't think they'll get caught with their asses flapping in the breeze when the last well dries up.
Public transit will increase, bikes will increase, cars will get smaller, etc. My position is that it would be nice if people got their asses in gear and started making those changes BEFORE we wreck the environment/start too many more wars/build too much more infrastructure (economic and physical) around the cheap-oil paradigm.
City Hobgoblin05.25.07 - 7:06 pm
reply
They should look to Mexico City's system:
Mexico City's extensive subway system is a lattice work of trains is built on a swamp on top of a volcano ... no fucking excuses there.
- Last time i was there it was 16¢ to ride on as many trains as you need until you exit the station.
- There is a virtual mall at every station. some stations are connected by underground walkways and you can just walk between some stations insead of taking the train or facing the rain.
- The subway's reach is extensive serving just about every part of one of the largest most spread-out cities in the world.
- the subway is supported by several levels of public and simi public transportation systems including: busses, mini busses, taxi-busses, and tons of taxies run by all sorts of private and simi private agancies. The longest bus wait i ever had was maybe 20 or 30 minutes. During the day in crowded areas, a bus passes every few minutes at the least.
oh yeah ...
if the bus is too crowded you pass your money up front through a chian of people ... if you dont have exact chainge ... no problem they will pass the change back to you... and this is with the bus costing like 21¢ or 22¢ ...
------------------
oh to dream to dream...
some times i wonder how many of those fucks at the MTA actually depend on the system to get to work or live their lives. You know they all get free passes. I would not be least bit surpised if it was well under 5%
and the fucking nerve of spending our money on billboards to tell us how great it is to ride the bus ... just make a fucking functional system that works and we will ride it. You don't need to advertise public transportation. Goddamn.
Now a 40% faire hike?
That is so fucking stupid.
....
But hey, think of the homeless people that pull the day passes out of the trash and sell them for $2, they will make a killing!
trickmilla05.25.07 - 8:59 pm
reply
i love tokyos public transportation....theres a subway, railway taht goes around the city, and bus system..BUT people can't take their bikes on the subway, trains or buses...
superfish05.25.07 - 9:56 pm
reply
Some random thoughts...
* Hope: I believe the guy who managed construction of the San Diego Trolley is now managing construction of LA's light rail lines. True? Dunno, but it gives me hope anyway because the SD Trolley is well regarded and I think was built within budget. But having ridden it I can say it is so popular there isn't always room for bikes!!!
* Paying the Piper: Taxes pay for public infrastructure. My 12 year old son thinks "tax" is a bad word; this distresses me. Public infrastructure cannot be built and maintained without taxes, hello. I believe we the LA county voters approved a sales tax to pay for public transit improvements a long time ago. Now it's borrow, borrow, borrow rather than pay as you go. Not good for my son's future.
* Dream #1: While I think the concept of subways under freeways very cool (works well with where commuters go now, real estate already is public property), consider putting overhead power wires above the carpool lanes then share the carpool lanes with electric bus/trolley vehicles having batteries (or kick the cars off altogether, haha). Having a battery allows a bus/trolley to "leave the wire" (trolley mode) long enough to make lane changes and get off the freeway without the overhead wire (bus mode) to get to a surface station. That'd be a whole lot less $$$ than going underground I think, tho not as cool, granted. Why electric? While it ain't pollution or CO-2 free (the power has to come from a plant of some kind), it's a lot less polluting than diesel, yuk.
* Gripe: All public conveyances and stations should accommodate more than 2 bikes per vehicle, be they trains, buses, trolleys or whatnot. Me and my FOLDING bike were refused admission to a Metrolink train one cold workday morning in January 2006 because "it was full of bikes". Huh, 3 or 4 train cars in JANUARY and it's full of BIKES??? I doubted it but couldn't prove it (conductor wouldn't let me on the train), so I told him I'm writing a letter (did that), and with a co-worker who rode the same route, secured a bike locker at our destination stop THAT SAME AFTERNOON. Turned out the bike locker WORKED VERY WELL. I miss that commute -- it was car+train+bike, and there are a lot of interesting people to talk to on the commuter trains.
* Here and now: Foldies are s'posed to be allowed on all MTA subways with no rush hour blackout times, in theory. Anyone confirmed that? I can tell you Metrolink has no such special policy for foldies (I wrote a second letter that day asking 'bout that, and the answer was a respectful no).
* Dream #2: Another future concept instead of subways -- elevated enclosed bikeways above the freeways. The general public might ask rhetorically "who would ride a bike 1 to 2 hours each way"? Some of us would, and those who sit in traffic for 2 hours might see the bikes up there going faster than the cars, for less $$$, staying fit rather than getting fat and frustrated, and join us. It seems fair the beneficiaries should pay for it, but we would not be the only beneficiaries. Every bike on the road (or bikeway) is ONE LESS CAR.
* Reflection from experience: All "modes" of transit have to accommodate the other "modes" to be successful, and BIKES ARE A FLEXIBLE MODE TOO!!!
OK, I'll wake up and get back to reality now... thanks for listening...
OverTheHill05.26.07 - 12:21 am
reply
I worked on graphics & layout for a story, published in late 2005, entitled "The Subway Mayor" when I was at the LA Weekly. It discusses some of the politics behind the Metro rail & the Bus Rider's Union. Unfortunately, the version that is online is much shorter than the print version, but is still a worthwhile read:
http://www.laweekly.com/general/features/the-subway-mayor/349/
There's also some readers' responses to the story here:
http://www.laweekly.com/news/la-sniper/gross-political-negligence/14861/
I also found some scathing comments about the BSU in this column by Alan Mittelstaedt. Alan and I were both ousted from the Weekly last year as a result of the New Times takeover, but that's another story.
http://www.laweekly.com/news/la-sniper/gross-political-negligence/14861/
angle05.26.07 - 3:15 am
reply
Part I
The history of transit in The City Of Angels is one fit for a movie. From racist and classist neighborhood organizations to car/oil/tire lobbys blocking subways to the nascent BRU who fight ANY rail construction and who like the aforementioned all surprisingly believe in one thing: busses, busses and more busses. I've been living in LA for 3 1/2 years an expatriate of NYC where their are a gaggle of rail lines EVERYWHERE. I'd never seen so many busses in my life. I was also equally surprised to find out that the busses were actually trying to compensate for the lack of an extensive rail network. So I started to wonder why weren't their subways everywhere here. Could it be the potential of earthquakes? Well, Tokyo has many more tremors than SoCal and they have subways. Could it be the popular belief that LA is spread out? No, London, Mexico City, Tokyo all have very extensive heavy rail/light rail service covering an area comparable if not larger in most cases than even Los Angeles. So I started to do a little research and what I found was both enchanting and saddening and on top of that most people in LA don't even realize the stranger than fiction story of transit in this city! Most people in this city have been programmed to believe that transit sucks here, has always sucked here and always will suck here.......something that the car and oil industry is very happy that you believe.
tmaxx605.26.07 - 12:18 pm
reply
Part II
At one time LA had the largest and most extensive rail system IN THE WORLD, that is until cities started to rip up and abandon their rail lines in leiu of busses but here in LA the car/oil/tire industries found a particular jewel. Not only did they play a part in the dismanteling of the amazing rail system here but they also pushed the idea that it was beneath the average working person to ride a bus, better to buy a car. Now their have been attempts to start to reconstruct rail as a true network here but their are some obvious forces keeping that from happening.......know whose side you are on.
1) Waxman's Law-In the 80's the MTA decided to start on the dream of subways that would criss-cross the city. One would go south following Vermont, East into East LA, north along the entire floor of the Valley and the crown jewel, west to the ocean-the subway to the sea. In 1985 a Ross Dress For Less exploded inthe Wilshire area prompting Waxman to place a CONGRESSIONAL ban on any subway building through that area. Today the Purple Line stops less than a mile from Hancock Park, the wealthy enclave that Waxman represents and who have a history of fighting any transit coming through their area, particularly a subway!
2)The BRU-The BRU helped construct the idea that the MTA is a racist organization because they build trains for "white people". In the early '90s they were able to force an injunction upon the MTA through a federal judge that said the MTA had to buy billions of dollars of busses to alieviate overcrowding on their existing ones but remember the MTA at the time was ambitiously trying to build a network of subways ......yet another blow.
3)Zev Yaroslovsky(county supervisor)-Zev's law passed in 1998 by the PEOPLE OF LA COUNTY says that by law their can be no tunneling ONLY FOR SUBWAYS anywhere in LA County. On top of that it took away the local funding for building subways that the MTA was relying on to finish its projects. The final blow!
tmaxx605.26.07 - 12:31 pm
reply
Part III
Did you know that the Eastside Goldline Light Rail extension was to be a subway? But had to be downgraded because of lack of funds especially since the MTA can no longer tunnel for subways or use local tax for subways!!
So this brings me to the 1,500 or so people screaming in the lobby of the MTA for GUESS WHAT.........1,000 more busses!! The auto manufactures who build the busses must be happy to hear that, so is the oil people (including the Bushies) as well as are the bus drivers. Because 1,000 new busses literally would equate to 1,000 new drivers right? I mean 1,000 new train cars would only mean 166.6 new train drivers using the Red Line as an analogy of 6 car trains, right?
What the BRU is trying to do is make sure that the MTA never ever tries to bring a real heavy rail or even light rail system to LA county. Why? Because the BRU, the racist and classist neighborhood councils and the car/oil/bus driver lobbys are all the same! Everyone knows that busses feed rail, this is the system in London, NYC, Paris, Tokyo and everywhere else w/ a respectable system. Why wouldn't they be fighting for just A BETTER OVERALL TRANSIT SYSTEM NO MATTER THE MODE TO ENSURE THAT WE CAN ALL GET TO WHERE WE NEED TO GO?? Because they are all part of the matrix folks. Every agency needs some sort of fare box recovery, so does LA. The city already has the lowest fares for a system its size in the country............ The idea is to never allow LA to become like a NYC where a car is looked at as an afterthought to a train. This would hurt the car and oil industries, the bus drivers and of course their 30,000 strong covert organization called the BRU whom they fund. Question? Why doesn't Eric Mann the head of the BRU ride the bus......all the time! And why would the BRU support a transit strike that only ended up hurting the very people that they say they are fighting for? Why? Because they back the Bus Mechanics lobby not the poor people.
tmaxx605.26.07 - 12:42 pm
reply
Part IV
Wake up people! I will gladly pay $2 more if that means the subway to the sea can be built. I'm actually surprised that against all of those odds the MTA still could build 73 miles of light and heavy rail throughout the county w/ 2 more under construction. Yet some sit around talking about how they don't like the "art" in metro stations when it's a fucking miracle that any of those stations are even in existence! Did you know that the BRU opposes the Blue Line as a racist/classist train eventhough it passes through some of the poorest and minority dominated areas in the country!
Wake up people! If I can come from somewhere else and get the game that is being played, why can't you? Keep the poor down at all costs! (Example: 2 hours to get from Compton to Santa Monica on a bus when a train would take 45 minutes, tops).Organize the poor to fight against their own greater good.(Example: The BRU ONLY promotes more bus use absolutely no rail, EVER! And never envisions the two working together).
Read more:
Waxman's Law:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LACMTA_Purple_Line
Why LA is not like NYC or Tokyo or Mexico City or Paris even. The history of transit in LA:http://www.laweekly.com/general/features/the-subway-mayor/349/
BRU and the truth:http://boards.eesite.com/board.cgi?boardset=ExpoLine&boardid=bru&spec=6278179
Join us who believe that all modes of transit be it gas powered or electric will work in LA as does the rest of the world!
The future: www.getmovingla.com
And yes I own and ride a bike.
Rail will prevail!
tmaxx605.26.07 - 12:56 pm
reply
Sorry forgot one:
Zev's law:http://www.lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=3187&IssueNum=137
tmaxx605.26.07 - 1:01 pm
reply
"Dream #2: Another future concept instead of subways -- elevated enclosed bikeways above the freeways."
I kind of like that, but I'd prefer if the bicycle movement just grew and we took to the streets on a regular basis influencing more and more drivers to do the same. RIDE YOUR BIKE!
And as far as Rail goes:
Keep Vizzualizing!
Bike and Rail get together!
Joe Borfo05.26.07 - 1:10 pm
reply
what a great read.... so once again something that would seem to serve one interest is actually alleged to be a covert operation for another interest. after reading your thread, reading the BRU site is a trip they really DONT want rail. They just want it gone not re-routed. it really does seem to be a sham........ so WTF then? whats the real steps here... this message is not getting out there to the regular non-news caring people. how does one market this information and ideas to the regular apolitical joes out there. how do you get them involved and informed is what I'm saying.
Roadblock05.26.07 - 3:39 pm
reply
Why do people who support the fare increase always chant "fare box recovery, fare box recovery" as though it were something written by Moses on a great Transit Tablet somewhere?
Really, is it an immutable law of physics that a certain percentage of transit funds have to come from fares, or else the Republic will crumble and the sky will fall and Eric Mann will bring the BRU to your house to rape your kittens?
PC05.26.07 - 4:09 pm
reply
"Wake up people! I will gladly pay $2 more if that means the subway to the sea can be built."
a fare hike is by no means guaranteed to build the entire system let alone a route to the sea. it IS guaranteed to discourage some car bound people from opting to use the transit system, especially for your typical short range trips. and it does put more burden on the poor and working class who currently depend on the system in its current rickety hodgepodge of route options. my pov is that a good transit system is beneficial to ALL commuters especially above and beyond to those in cars which is why car drivers need to pay for this I believe MORE SO than those who are currently putting in work schlubbing along on a crappy system. LA COUNTY GAS TAX and SALES TAX. make it happen. go metro.
also, sheesh dont get all worked up about the art criticism. it wasnt meant to be the end all be all focus of my rant . my point is valid. and that is simply that your average joe who consequently doesnt appreciate art looks at those stations and sees decadence and miss-use of public money (whatever the reality) which turns them off to the idea of paying higher taxes to support said systems. they have a point. most average joes schmoes could give a fuck about art, instead what they see is wasteful govt spending and all that stuff gets exploited in the right wing and mainstream media to no end! guess what I actually agree with the schmoes. from a "marketing of ideas" standpoint I'm advocating that we dont give any excuses by re-directing what is seen as "frivolous spending" and cutting it or putting it towards additional construction. again, as an artist myself, it might be out of character for me to say this but frankly I've seen some of these art committee decisions go down over the years there's a lot of BS involved so why bother with it. just get a good architect with experience in transit systems and make it look clean and dope. but dont go overboard with the artsy fartsy homogenized public art extras and attract the ire of the mainstream/rightwing media. it cost much more in terms of reputation than it's worth.
Roadblock05.26.07 - 4:41 pm
reply
You may have a point about the art "roadblock" but you have to understand......everyone knows that LA is well overdue for a world class transit system. Back in the 80's I can only imagine the giddiness of the planners thinking about finally constructing real subways here and saying to themselves, "fuck I want this system to be the best in the world. I want our stations to make Moscow's look like they were planned by the dudes who come up w/ the designs for Jack in the box".....or something like that. So yes, they might have went overboard but I quite frankly coming from a city w/ endless little boring cut out holes in the ground, I thought Hollywood/Vine station should win an award. I mean, film reels covering every inch of the ceiling!!! And the Universal Station where you get a history of LA both in English and Spanish!!! Perhaps these will serve as our historical stations and the subsequent stations in the future will much more practical.
Listen all I'm saying is that this our future now. We are the generation with the gavel, now! IF we want something done, let's do it! Their is no reason why we can't have heavy and light rail and bike lanes on every major street in place and being used before we die. Our time is now!
And as a sidenote: Yes, fare recovery is not the end all. But where do we get the money from when we have so much opposition.........On a state and federal level. So we have to start this grassroots so that in 5 years when the bond goes up for a vote or an increase in gas tax even.....the majority will come down on our side. We could even push for a rail/bus/bike initiative altogether! After Villaraigosa, pray that it will be Garcetti!
tmaxx605.26.07 - 6:43 pm
reply
Did you know that the BRU even opposes the Orange Line....a bus! Why? Because higher capacity busses means one less driver. They are for the smaller more frequent bus service....why? I'm sure you can answer this by now if you've been reading my posts......Smaller busses mean more drivers per people. Also which uses more gas and oil, even if it's "clean burning natural gas"? More frequent smaller busses. Therefore, the Orange Line becomes racist and classist......Why wouldn't they be promoting bike lanes along w/ bus service? The "racist" MTA does......Believe me I'm not trying to convince you that the MTA is some angelic organization sent down from above.....if they really wanted to save money Roger Snoble could cut his own 6 figure salary.......let's not be duped by any of these self-serving organizations. Start demanding a better transit system that includes all modes, heavy rail/light rail/busses/bike lanes!! This is our future! NOW!!
tmaxx605.26.07 - 7:06 pm
reply
ok so your saying we can make this happen.... lets get a step by step happening.... the federal funding and all that shit.
what does the solution moving forward look like?
Roadblock05.26.07 - 7:17 pm
reply
A bittersweet story about our Blue Line. Our first modern rail line in the county, w/ over 80,000 unlinked rides per day, the #1 light rail line in ridership in the country. Should have been a subway......but why spend that kind of money on the poor??
http://thetransitcoalition.us/BlueLine.htm
tmaxx605.26.07 - 7:17 pm
reply
Frankly the federal funding doesn't look good because of the oil entrenched Bushies. They just aren't into funding transit much...besides they are spending half a trillion on the Iraq war. That kind of money could have put a decent rapid transit system in every major city in the US. On the state level Ahnold is taking money away from transit out of the spillover fund. But he certainly is funding highways!! So the prognosis doesn't look good if we are relying on the gov't. We still are fucked because Zev's law bans any local taxes going towards subway building and the Senate is just getting around to repealing the Waxman ban on any subway down Wilshire after Antonio did some back office deals w/ him. This has to be grassroots. Just start talking about our city, a world city unfortunately w/ a below world class transit system needs trains, busses and bikes everywhere. All 3 play off of each other. The more people you get riding transit the more pedestrian activity you get. Pedestrian activity is naturally traffic calming making the bicycle a real alternative because as more pedestrians are out on the street we can start pushing for wider sidewalks and bike lanes. I live in Silver Lake. I feel like I'm living in NYC w/ better weather and slightly more interesting/whacky people, take your pick. Echo Park is next door, so is the lovely Los Feliz, Hollywood then Weho then it kinda stops.....until Santa Monica. Well the other way is the fantastic Echo Park then Angeleno Heights then our sorely misunderstood downtown. Anyway, what we all are pushing for is a more urban friendly city. It's time for LA to "grow up". The density is here. The population is here. And frankly, this is an interesting time in LA history. The city is turning a corner now and we need to be involved so that our ideas get heard and implemented.
tmaxx605.26.07 - 7:39 pm
reply
okay,
I started this post, and all I said was that there was going to be a possibility of more riders out there.
YAY, more of us less of them!
:)
Peace
feelingrandy05.27.07 - 12:41 am
reply
Well I think this thread did a good job of talking how and why this is a happening,but is anyones eles conserned with what we are going to do about this?This is'nt the war or something to huge to really fight this is right here in our faces on our streets and we can do something about this.Rather then talk about the past and how the MTA has fucked up over the years we should descuss what WE CAN DO.When these MTA workers feel that geeting paid only 50 thousand a year to sit on there asses all day just was'nt eough they went on skike ,they made there voices heard.HOW it's our turn
blackout_blacklung07.5.07 - 4:52 pm
reply
Yeah, the
nerve of those MTA workers, asking to be paid a living wage! What's the matter with them, anyway?
(Yes, yes, I know that some of them drive like shit. Here is a picture of an unnamed, totally handsome and charming Rida confronting one of those drivers.)
PC07.6.07 - 12:25 am
reply
hmm, it must be something of a requirement for the rapid drivers, especially the 720 to drive like pissed off crackheads with a mouthfull of roofing nails, because riding that home from the 4th, I though we seriously were going to die... and hearing the bus driver calling the pasengers morons out loud because they didnt happen to realize his erratic stop half a block before the posted stop was the stop they wanted... that was the pure making of my morning... wish I'd been awake enough to get his badge number.
FuzzBeast07.6.07 - 1:47 am
reply
-->
Ridazz Roulette!
AWESOME! Kickin some ass!
LAME!! Not kickin anyone's ass!