NOTE: All timestamps are in the future because WE are in the future. The care takers of Midnight Ridazz.com reserves the right to remove, edit, move or delete anything for any reason. None of the opinions expressed on these boards represent the Midnight Ridazz nor can anyone purport to speak on behalf of Midnight Ridazz.
i usually ride with the santa monica cm, but have been doing the la rides as well. they're just as fun, but the last ride was significantly smaller and less organized than the smcm.
i'll be there on friday.
WEST SIDE riders: if you want to meet up and ride to western/wilshire let's meet @ the trader joe's in culver city at 6 and depart at 6:15.
BooHoo.............Let see if it can be as fun in Los Angeles, as it is in Santa Monica. Lets not remember that the Los Angeles Critical Mass is where this all started in L.A.
I hope it is more organzied this time, maybe a little bigger....... Waaannn!!!!!
Seriously, it haven't been fun til 'meandmybluebike' showed up, and I think it will finally come together when 'monovsstereo' and 'fixie701' shows up. A ride isn't a ride, without those two. Thanks in advance for making the this five year plus ride start to happen.
I clicked on this thread not realizing I was the one that made it. You'll notice this was back in september. I've been to more than one LA CM since then, and I'll probably see you tomorrow. Ride on!
I disovered CM the best possible way. By accident! I was just rolling up western to get home and all of a sudden i see a big pack of ridaaz chompin' at the bit, ready to roll. Lucky me! what a nice little ride. Made me feel alot better too since I flaked on my Valley Ninjas.
Sounds like fun. Its pretty much downhill from the 405 freeway to the beach. It would be fun to play critical mass on the hills going through Wilshire from Century City to Westwood. Oh wait. I don't know if we would be able to keep it together going through those hills, never mind.
How about we round up all the people who want to fork off and head to SM, and the rest of the people can continue rolling with the LACM if they so please?
I'm only expecting the 'usuals' to head down there anyway. You know, the rowdy folk who stay out drinking until the sun comes up...not pointing any fingers. :D
sounds like a battle. Let see who can take it where. Then thats where it ends up. "battle of the LA Critical Mass 72707" where you fight for the destination, those that lead decide. Feud for the front position.
Wear your wrestling masks.
I might come to this tomorrow, we'll see, I ate shit pretty hard yesterday, horray for crashes pic coming, and my face and right wrist are a bit sore, if it's feeling better tomorrow night, i'm down for some cm hijinks,
Fuzz,
Sorry to hear about your crash (pics, PICS!), hope you're feeling better soon. Not skinny-dipping after the ride won't be the same without you ;-(...
Hey Fuzz, I learned on TV that salt water is good for wounds. You see I watch Hard Copy every day! very educational! We'll be sure to bring plenty of "medicine" for ya too.
haha, pic is up, i've been taking care of em, seems the worst one as of right now is my wrist, i slathered it with camphor oils and wrapped it tight, so hopefully tomorrow it'll be feeling good enough to ride on again (I think riding on it half busted and porrly wrapped is what pissed it off anyway), at this rate there's a good chance i will ride.
Aye, pulled a tuck and roll, would have been good if it hadn't been for the fact that the 2 foot high cement boob sticking out of the road surface (with NO marking of any kind indicating that this gross neglect of city streets was a safety hazard) had a twin another 15 feet further down the road, I glanced off the first, managed to unclip, swing the bike around me and toss it toward the curb to avoid the car I had just passed (I was doing somewhere between 25 and 30), then start tucking and rolling only to land face first onto the side of said wonderful twin lump.
awesome ride yesterday. got my metric century in there. going down Hollywood Blvd was rad. not like we haven't done it before, but yesterday was great!
why does the la critical mass significantly lack in the number of participants compared with the ridazz rides? is it because it's difficult for many folks to get off of work in time to ride out at around 7 or 7:30, or whatever time is it we decide to leave?
do we need beautiful, witty (perhaps topless) ladies and witty, handsome gentlemen to lure folks to the ride?
we'll they'll be there! i just talked to them.
also, try to get up to sf for the 15th anniversay of cm the last friday in september!
well since there's 6 rides this friday. that could have some effect on the size of the turnout. And yes i think it's hard for folks to get home from work, possibly grab a bite to eat, gear up, and head down to K-town which is a super busy area and make it there by 7. but it's prolly easy for the folks that live right near there tho.
why yes! It does take a beautiful topless woman to get me out to the cm ride!
But I need to get one thing clear from your statement above, did you talk to the topless girls and they'll be there, or did you talk to the handsome gentlemen and they'll be there?
The whole point of the original CM was for people to go there straight from work, do the ride, and then go home. Naturally, this works better in a compact, dense city like San Francisco than in a sprawled out city like LA. And if people in LA are trying to go home, get sparkled up, and then go to the ride, that just makes it even more difficult to pull off, as the ride was never meant to work that way.
"The whole point of the original CM blah blah blah"
This is a tired refrain. The whole point of the original CM was the whole point nearly 15 years ago . . . obviously since then there have been other approaches which have also succeeded . . . hmmm - can I think of one . . . starts with M, ends with Z?
meandmyblue - here's my relatively inexpert opinion. LACM is rad - and you trace the whole movement back to it in LA. So why is the oldest ride in LA also one of the weakest?
No one takes care of the ride - no one takes responsibility to it. Some CMassers will tell you that CM is leaderless and so forth. That's plain wrong - primarily because it's imprecise. All the presently successful rides in LA have people within them who put substantial energy and forethought into the ride to make sure that it's a good time. In the old days of MRidazz it was Kim, MaBell, Monica et al, for SMCM it was Zack, Dave Benoff, Alex, Tank etc. RideArc is Alex Amerri, and for rides like Cub Camp it's Richie, Marcus, 139, etc.
Successful CM style rides usually have a handful implicit leaders - what's important is not that they are disorganized and leaderless, but that they allow everyone to participate in the decision making, and no one gives orders - the groups operate by consensus.
If one wanted to make LACM a healthier ride all one would need to do is put consistent energy into it for 6 months or so. Beyond doing that you just need to use the right combination the usual tricks - spokecards, after partys, route planning, noisemaking, getting people to come, and so forth.
and even without all that, last month's cm was one of the largest I've seen in la (as far as cm is concerned). We had a little over a hundred people, not bad for a night that has consistently had at least 3 rides going on for months, if not years.
But then again, that last ride was another of what the LACM has sort of become, it's name would be more apt if it was called "Hijack This Ride" as in many ways LACM has become a sort of Rush Hour Pre-Party for the other rides taking place that night. This is not something I have a problem with. Sure in other cities CM is the big ride, meh, whatever, that's cool. We have a large ride here in LA, well actually a BUNCH of large rides. Like was said in the last post, CM was what it began as, in SF, and it was what it began as in LA, now it's become something different, that's cool with me. I like my friday ride to start at 7 pm and not end until the sun comes up the next morning (as was the case with the last one (LACM-->309). In a city with so much going on, bike wise (17 rides/events posted between now and the end of the long weekend, plus at least 3 I can think of that arent even posted), our CM has pretty much become just another bike ride, one that happens to start a little earlier than our big ride.
SF and NY are known for their CM's, Portland for ZOOBOMB, and LA's got Midnight Ridazz, it's cool. I for one will go out to this month's RIdejack and have a blast, then have a blast when it gets rammed into some other ride, then have a blast riding around until I feel like going home... then sleep until I get up to go do another ride the next day.
Who cares, it's fun no matter how many people show up. It's Critical, it's not always a Mass, but it's fun.
well not all people bike to and from work. lotta people work far from home. so they'd have to get home and then get their bike and somehow get to K-town by either driving out there or riding out there. riding out is my favorite way, but it's hard to make it out to k-town by 7 if u don't live in the area. LA is pretty spread out. i think that's why it's hard for folks to make it out.
H'mm, 6 rides to pick from all in one night.
Well, if I'm able to get down there by tommorrow, I'm going to get a few of my non-riding friends to ride.
I'll just scope out some familiar faces and ride with them.
Not to mention this is a sort of fitness test that my group of non-riders are willing to take up.
Actually, I should try to explain myself better rather than start a cat fight.
MAMBB was wondering why LA's Critical Mass is significantly smaller than Ridazz. The answer to that question is simple: it's earlier. Why is it earlier? Because whether you like it or not and whether you care or not, CM has traditionally been an after-work ride, timed to coincide roughly with Friday night's "rush" hour.
Now, because San Francisco, Manhattan, and other such cities are geographically compact and extremely dense, they are able to have one gigantic ride every month. Los Angeles just isn't like that. It doesn't matter how many groovy, non-heirarchical non-leading leader types adopt the ride, or how many spoke cards they make, or how gently and lovingly they try to nurture the ride: Los Angeles Critical Mass will always be a small ride, relative to Midnight Ridazz and other rides that start late.
Is this a bad thing? No, it's just a thing. We are where we are. SF will have its one big Mass, and the LA Basin will have its series of smaller, regional Masses (Santa Monica, SFV, Long Beach...).
Would it be possible to make LACM into one big ride? Well, you could start at 10:30 PM. But then you might as well call it...oh, what's that thing again, the one that begins with an M and ends with a Z? Fuck with it too much and at some point you will just be, as it were, trying to turn a dog into a cat. It's possible to love something to death, after all.
Last month LACM was the first for a couple of friends. That was also the first and last time I would see Meiko too. But my friends quit the ride when it got hijacked to SM. It kinda got split in several groups. It must have been fun down in SM but I went back with the friends. Maybe there are so many choices where to hijack the ride, it may fall apart again, but I guess that is ok.
Maybe not ok for some of the new riders? Oh well
Well, not reeeeally. My main point was that Critical Mass gets its essence--its Critical Massness, if you like--from, among other things, the Friday early evening timing. Change that, and you turn it into something else. And we've already got that something else, so why bother blah blah smeckity blah lolcat Americano [insert your favorite running gag here] blah.
regarding last months ride:
i thought it was a bit bizarre that the ride stopped on santa monica blvd and someone decided to essentially say 'choose a direction now: east or to the beach!' the ride was immediately cut in half and that sucked because it was still really early. i personally like sticking together for the ride. it just gives me a better excuse to be obnoxious.
and everyone should wear their fancy-pants to work on fridays, so they won't have to go home to change just for the ride.
plus, the topless ladies will be there.
there still a group meeting at trader joe's in culver city to ride to western and wilshire? i'm lookin forward to a chill ride to start this weekend right.
I like the idea of meandmybluebike of going to Downtown to check out the TUNNEL VISION races. At least that will give the people that want to stick to the Metropolitan Area more time to enjoy the ride as a big group before it gets hijacked to some other area or ride.
You hit the proverbial nail on the head with that post a few bars up, PC. Your ass should run for office, you should be the........
LA Co.Sheriff??
Yeah, with So Cal being too spread out thanx to poor development decisions from the "not-so-Brightest, yet-Greatest-Generation", we're stuck with this "distance-between-metro-areas" clusterfuck.
Since I'm predominantly stuck up in the High Desert without any personal motor-transport to get me 100 miles on a daily basis, I guess I'll start brain-childing the High Plains Ridazz movement.
I mentioned it before to some of y'all up in PDX.
The only thing is, I'll have to work twice as hard up here to gather anyone. All we have living up here are mainly knucklehedz interested in lift kits and Flowmasters.
I've got a bit of a task on my hands.
And the Cajon Pass being somewhat of a barrier between myself and you guys.
Arggghhhh!!
I thought I was going to be there last night for sure.
Instead I was stuck on latrine duty(checking trailers for damage) and catching the 3:10 to Yuma.
Well, looks like there's still some activity on the list, but I still have to go back up to the desert to check mail and whatnot:(
"The answer is simple"? Simple answers for simple people I suppose.
Your simple answer gets an F. You argue that the lower density of LA prevents it from being a successful ride. Consider Brooklyn CM, which is a large ride in an area which is of lower density than the area surrounding the meetup at Wilshire & Western. Within 4 miles of WIlshire & Western there are easily a half million people living and working. Check out Santa Monica CM - which attracts over 300 people each month . . . Santa Monica and Venice are not substantially denser and yet there is a successful CM there.
Density is not the problem - otherwise MRidazz would not be big either - it's not as if the city suddenly becomes denser between 7 and 10pm.
You also argue that it's the start time. However, the Westside has several rides with early start times which are successful. Again, Santa Monica CM is the easiest counterexample to your "simple answer". The start time is not the problem.
Historically there have been large, successful LACMs, though they were isolated. During Bike Summer 2005 there was a very large ride, the ride and afterparty in the warehouse district for Halloween 2005 was legendary, and there was a large ride which visited the South Central Farms last year.
That gives the clue to what makes for a succesful LACM. All the above mentioned rides were rides that were planned and promoted by the people involved with Bike Summer, the Halloween party, and people supporting the South Central Farm respectively.
You can preach if you like about the historical difference between CM and MRidazz . . . but in actuality the CM rides in SoCal are effectively the same = they are large social rides. The primary difference is in the degree of planning, and in Santa Monica, where they planning for the ride is similar to that of a Ridazz event, you have a large and successful ride.
"The answer is simple"? Simple answers for simple people I suppose.
Oh, snap. Oh no he or she didn't!
You argue that the lower density of LA prevents it from being a successful ride. Consider Brooklyn CM, which is a large ride in an area which is of lower density than the area surrounding the meetup at Wilshire & Western. Within 4 miles of WIlshire & Western there are easily a half million people living and working.
Brooklyn has a larger and older bike culture, probably more bike commuters, and certainly better mass transit--including rapid transit between it and Manhattan, some of whose riders like to head to Brooklyn's CM for a respite from the ridiculous police harassment they face in Manhattan.
And even with all that (please pay attention here), Brooklyn's CM is by no means a huge ride. About 150 riders on the 7/21/07 Mass, according to this blogger. Frankly, I fail to see how the existence of Brooklyn's modest CM proves your point that large Masses can arise out of areas with sub-Manhattan or sub-SF density. It seems to suggest the opposite.
Check out Santa Monica CM - which attracts over 300 people each month . . . Santa Monica and Venice are not substantially denser and yet there is a successful CM there.
Yes, there is. Small by Midnight Ridazz standards, but successful. That was exactly my point, if you weren't paying attention: Los Angeles, being spread out, is a natural venue for separate, relatively small regional Masses, rather than one huge one as in the denser urban cores.
Should people in Santa Monica and Venice struggle to try to get to Wilshire and Western every fourth Friday by 7:00 PM in order to transform the rush-hour streetscape of Koreatown with their bikes? Or should they simply put on their own neighborhood Mass, close to home and much easier to get to, and make their own magic right where they live or work? You and I may have our own opinions on what they should do, but it would seem that many of the Westsiders have voted with their wheels on that one. They've chosen to have their own, and more power to them.
(Obviously some people do more than one Mass...I'm just saying the CM riders of the LA basin have pretty much decided on their own that they don't need a big central Mass.)
Density is not the problem - otherwise MRidazz would not be big either - it's not as if the city suddenly becomes denser between 7 and 10pm.
Speaking of density, you can't possibly be so dense as not to understand that three extra hours of lead time makes a trip of 10-30 miles for a bike rider much, much more feasible (and thus, more likely to happen).
You also argue that it's the start time. However, the Westside has several rides with early start times which are successful. Again, Santa Monica CM is the easiest counterexample to your "simple answer". The start time is not the problem.
Santa Monica CM isn't a counterexample at all. It's a regional ride, attended mostly by people who live or work in the area.
Like it or not, admit it or not, the start time is the limiting factor to the size of Critical Mass rides in this basin. Note that I didn't say "problem"--the idea that this is a problem, in need of a solution, is something that you're clinging to. It's not a problem at all; it just is.
Historically there have been large, successful LACMs, though they were isolated. During Bike Summer 2005 there was a very large ride, the ride and afterparty in the warehouse district for Halloween 2005 was legendary, and there was a large ride which visited the South Central Farms last year.
In other words, CMs that have happened to coincide with large, all-city bike events, crises, or holidays have been large. Fair enough, but I don't think that this says anything about the way this city, its infrastructure, or its bike culture work during the other 51 weeks of the year.
Look, it's a (kind of) free country, and I would never deny you your right to try to convince yourself and others that LA's Critical Mass riders will someday break free of the constraints imposed on them by physics, work schedules, and the built environment, and create One Big Mass to rule them all. It just isn't going to actually happen, that's all. And why should it? Nobody seems to want one all that badly. They're happy with their regional Masses. You are obviously an ambitious kitten, so instead of knocking yourself out trying to rearrange this particular ball of yarn, why not knit something new and awesome of your own? Give it a hilariously misspelled name and see who shows up.
By the way, I'm an actual person. Click on my profile to see what I look like. You can approach me if you see me at a ride, and we can fight about this shit over a beverage of your choice, minus the name-calling. Or with the name-calling; I don't care.
Having completely hijacked this thread, as Knittens is wont to do, this will be my last reply in our conversation.
I do know you're a person (actually I know who you are), but I'm still going to tell it like I think it is. Plus, when you write something like:
"You are obviously an ambitious kitten, so instead of knocking yourself out trying to rearrange this particular ball of yarn, why not knit something new and awesome of your own?"
I tend to feel as if you're kind of a punk - and not like punk rock - like "punk you stole my fucking taco." It's not a bad suggestion, but it's a suggestion that needn't be made and seems to be predicated on the assumption that I do not do anything to organize. I don't expect to have any credibility, but just because you don't know who I am don't assume that I shouldn't be taken seriously.
That said - I'm deliberately provocative because I enjoy it, and I've given you just us much lip.
Do you really think that discussing the ins & outs of LACM is a waste of time? I feel like, when so many people are working very hard to grow the social biking culture in LA, it is important to work smarter not harder. LACM is kind of like a piece of rancid steak in a fridge full of gourmet food - it takes up space (riders waste time on it), it stinks up the place (not always fun) - and there's a risk someone might eat it (some noob might go and be turned off by it). Plus - making it a big ride is a good way to get some practice organizing.
I have no quibble with your assertion that masses are regional rides. In fact I think that it is important to analyze, in each ride, where the participants are coming from. That said, it's been my observation that for a given MRidazz most of the riders (70-80%) live within a few miles of the start (if they're not fucking driving). True - there are a lot of people from elsewhere, but not the vast majority. Hence - you could characterize them as regional rides.
My point about their being a half million living within a few miles of the Wiltern was meant to indicate that you can have a large regional ride. Increase the mode split, and increase participation by making the ride attractive.
SMCM would be bigger, but it has had to deal with police harassment and confused leadership this year. But even with that it's bigger than most MR, but it's just not as big as the big MRs. And it is a counterexample - because it pulls 300, sometimes 400 everytime.
CM is not big in LA because it's reputations is one of abrassive confrontation and a protest. since there are very few "bike only" non car having people in this particular city it feels hypocritical for someone who both drives and rides to show up and then to protest car driving and to disrupt traffic purposefully. So it's pretty much limited to the few who dont drive at all or drive very little on principal. That's why CM in LA never made a difference to bike culture in LA outside of the hardcore everyday riders who actually could ride from work to the meet. I went on a CM for the first time about a month ago and it was fun but honestly the Circle of death/life is quite antagonistic to cars drivers I didnt participate because it goes against my values. it goes beyond the "wait a couple lights while we get through" and becomes "we are purposefully holding you up" in this city, thats a tough sell that actions like that help the cause.
CM was around much much longer, but MR by virtue of starting later and specifically not dissing drivers (I'm guessing 98% of the participants of MR own a car too) but just to have a social ride was why the MR ride was the ride that got things going in LA. no dispute over that in my mind.
Just for clarity. that circle of life/death is just something that I have only seen done on the SFV critical mass, no ever critical mass, I've been on.. I think the reason why that happens is because it could be a real boar of a ride, if little things like that didn't happen out there. It was picked up from our friends down in San Diego, they tend to use it alot in their rides.
I don't know where this thread has been going, I just glanced at some the posting and got tired, so I didn't read it. Never has I seen that move used anywhere else except SFV cm and electric warriors. I did read the last post, so I thought I would clarify, since you haven't been to a CM ride before. They are always different. I don't think I could use a broad brush stroke on any of them collectively. Sometimes great fun, sometimes broken up to quickly, or sometimes just dull, but I always enjoy coming together with other cyclist.
I missed the last ride, due to three days without sleep and the tone on this board, made me stay in. Glad you all had fun. Wish I was there for Rodeo, I know some other little spots around BH that would be a blast to ride through. Ride on!!!!!!!! sigh
one of the best lacm rides i have been on. driving through rodeo with everyone screaming, and 'gang of four' blarring was awesome! and i was thrilled and self-conscious about bigbikedan using my music.
i hope others enjoyed it.
and, regarding the poltical perspectives and philosophy of cm: i ride because i like to ride; and without protesting and/or intentionally attempting to block auto traffic. it's just another opportunity to socialize and exercise. dig it!
I think, of every ride I've been on, last night's CM was the least antagonistic towards other drivers. Granted, we were a smaller-sized group, but the dudes holding up traffic were nice and made sure everyone blasted through an intersection so we weren't keeping cars waiting too long.
The only incident we had was with those two terrible fucks when we were coming back from Beverly Hills. (First off of Wilshire and La Cienega, then La Cienega and 3rd. Or was it Beverly? I already forgot the route.) I think you guys know who I'm talking about. The dude in the convertible who looked like a mutated Phil Specter trying to explicity run bikers over. Dude was lame!
Phil Spector, eh?
I was just wondering how many people are armed with cameras on these rides.
As some of you know, you've seen my hip-pack with all the gear attached to it.
Along with my cellphone, my Casio EX-1050 is worn like a six-shooter on my hip.
I figure that with cameras at the ready, corkers would feel somewhat more protected in a potential,
"agitated-motorist stand-off."
I've got a 2 gig add-on card which ups normal video recording by 400%. With 46 min of recording on this small thing, it's worth it's weight in gold.
I just have to decide to figure out what's worth recording.
And also to affix it to a helmet, as judged by the Zoobomb footage I posted recently.
First of all it's called the circle of death by practically every cm'er out there. I've only seen it on this list called "the circle of life" and that's been by Dave. Shit what's next? Change the game Doom to Hopefulness? Do an impromptu survey on the main CM list on what to call it and we'll leave it at that. Yeah rather silly, but it's best to address the name thing now. Let Dave call it what he want.
LACM ridazz - Almost all of the ridazz on this CM ride I bet have a car. I really don't think it's much different than any of the other rides. I never thought or felt that I was an outsider because I drove a car and participated in the LACM ride. Contrary to what is written above, I really don't think this aspect plays a part in the participation in this event and have never had someone convey this to me on these rides. Where it may differ is to taking a stronger stance to asserting your rights on the road. Another think that differences this ride from others is doing the circle of death. I don't really see this as taking too much time out of someones drive. If you were to time how long a COD takes, you would find it take less than two minutes. Being that we do a COD maybe 1 out of 4 rides, the time and number of people inconvenienced is VERY minimal. And it is done at a highly visible intersection for the people's enjoyment. I happen to think it's a also a way of showing that it's really the people that are in charge and not the police force or government. But that's just my own view. It would be far more fruitful to find another part of a another ride, ie ridazz strung out in a long procession, if you want to find things that piss off the most drivers.
OK on to the ride last night. It was a collective effort that went to BH and Rodeo Dr. don't be fooled into believing it was one person. I suggested it to a few people before the ride. I know that these guys are the front at times and could help with steering the group to BH. They were down with going that direction, actually they were pretty fuckin stoked into going there. So with a short false start we managed to make a 180 degree change in direction on the road. Riding that area fuckin kicked ass! I love doing that area and we never hardly ever do it. I know alot of the people sitting outdoors are probably making it all the talk in their otherwise predictable night. It was funnier than hell riding up this walk way above! /| Hell, how was we to know it was a dead end?!?!?! After this (right) wrong way turn we rolled a little longer in the area and had a blast there! The only thing missing was Motorhead's song "Eat the Rich". Riding out of BH and heading east, what seems to be a standard these days is going through the Grove. It's like vortex or something huh? If we get within a block of it, we're there! Every time we happen to go through the Grove we always seem to have less people regrouping after the ride through than before. This was NOT the case this time. I think just about everyone made it through and didn't get lost or busted.
Other quick notes,
I think there was about 100 ridazz yesterday, not bad for a 3 day weekend and burningman and the BS they may have read on the list.
Other than Branden (sp?) destroying his frame and the asshole that fucked with us, which btw, was dealt with at the next light, the ride was a fuckin awesome ride. I hope we get out to BH more often ;-)
The people dissing the ride above need to make the ride if they're going to talk shit about it. How else are you going to know what you're talking about? You guys all do alot for the bike community, but focus on what you know about. Until you make the rides, all you're getting is secondhand info.
Big props go out to alot of the new faces I saw yesterday! The ride make it on one thing and one thing only and that's people turning out. Anything around 100 or more ridazz on the road make for a fun ass night and if other rides weren't going on, we have made our own till the wee hours of the morning!
I do know you're a person (actually I know who you are),
Well, in terms of knowing who the other person is, that makes one of us.
I tend to feel as if you're kind of a punk - and not like punk rock - like "punk you stole my fucking taco."
Coming from an anonymous person on the Internet, that's a pretty hard hitting assessment. I'm afraid I'm going to have to put this discussion on hold while I do some intense soul-searching.
(*sits and assumes attitude of thoughtful repose*)
(*several seconds elapse*)
Oh, there it is! Man, it's always in the last place you look.
(I found your taco, too. It's only partially digested, if you still want it back.)
It's not a bad suggestion, but it's a suggestion that needn't be made and seems to be predicated on the assumption that I do not do anything to organize.
Assuming strictly for the sake of argument that I care whether you organize, how the heck am I supposed to know whether you do or not, Secret Agent Man? You're asking a little too much of a guy.
Do you really think that discussing the ins & outs of LACM is a waste of time?
That's an odd question to ask of somebody who is willingly and enthusiastically discussing the ins and outs of LACM with you.
LACM is kind of like a piece of rancid steak in a fridge full of gourmet food - it takes up space (riders waste time on it), it stinks up the place (not always fun) - and there's a risk someone might eat it (some noob might go and be turned off by it).
And yet, I keep reading posts in this very thread from people who enjoy it. Words like "awesome," "fun," and "socialize" keep popping up. I get the same vibe in meatspace: of the people who have participated, more like it than don't, although everybody has a suggestion or two for improvement (which kind of reminds me of another bike ride in this town...erm, it starts with an M...).
I have no quibble with your assertion that masses are regional rides. In fact I think that it is important to analyze, in each ride, where the participants are coming from. That said, it's been my observation that for a given MRidazz most of the riders (70-80%) live within a few miles of the start (if they're not fucking driving). True - there are a lot of people from elsewhere, but not the vast majority. Hence - you could characterize them as regional rides.
Maybe it's a function of the people I know, but at almost every MR I attend, I see at least as many people from outside the immediate area as from inside. Seventy to eighty percent living a few miles from the start of the big rides? Man, I doubt it. I'm not saying I can disprove it; I'm just saying that I really do doubt it.
SMCM would be bigger, but it has had to deal with police harassment and confused leadership this year. But even with that it's bigger than most MR, but it's just not as big as the big MRs. And it is a counterexample - because it pulls 300, sometimes 400 everytime.
In a city the size of Los Angeles, three to four hundred riders is not all that large. To be sure, SMCM is a good sized regional ride. For that matter, LACM is a good sized regional ride, and people seem to enjoy it. Which brings us back full circle to the matter of your insistence on offering a solution to a "problem" that may very well not exist.
But hey, it's your energy to expend however you like.
the COD is something that happens on CM rides yes or no? regardless of whether it actually takes much of the motorists time or not is not the issue.. it is perceived to be antagonistic no matter the delay and therefore, in my opinion doesnt help the cause especially in this starfuck dreamer richie rich city in which hardly anyone considers cycling an alternative to cars. I mean if you just want to keeep ridership low and have car drivers think of bikers as a bunch of "leftwing hippie assholes" then sure lets go nuts and terrorize cars. but if you want to invite them out of their cars, and grow the constituency then my opinion is that you have to make it feel inclusive and not antagonistic.. In other cities CM is huge because they have the constituency of full time cyclists to do it. in this city the constituency is not there yet but growing.
All bike rides will piss off some motorists. An "us vs. them" mentality will engender no good will toward people on bikes. Ride for the fun, the love of the ride, the sweat, the grease, but not some abstract political idea. I don't think politics are translated well in a hoard of people on bikes, if you want to be political go be a politician, if you want to ride go ride. I like CM because it’s leaderless, egoless, non-exclusive, free for all, and fun as hell, it’s not scenster based or advantageous to social climbers, not hip, not cool, for bicycle dorks, it’s real. Friday’s CM was the best in a long time because we just RODE. We did not hijack the ride for some other event or some protest, if you want to go to those things; then go to them instead. You think that by riding a bike puts you on some higher moral plateau than everyone else, you’re dead wrong.
Just shut the fuck up and ride your bike.
Paul “I’ve forgotten more stuff about bikes than you’ll ever know” de Valera :)
RB-
the COD is something that happens on CM rides yes or no? regardless of whether it actually takes much of the motorists time or not is not the issue.. it is perceived to be antagonistic no matter the delay and therefore, in my opinion doesnt help the cause....
Me-
Yeah the COD does happen and if I'm not mistaken, the last time it happened was about 3 maybe 4 months ago on Hollywood Blvd for 2 loops. Now are you going to get all in a tizzy because of something that lasted for less than two minutes and had far more spectators amused and possibly excited, and ignore the corking of cars for multiple cycles of the light while ridazz trickle by in (sp?) onesies and twosies? Are you telling me that's not more antagonistic to the drivers as they sit there starring at the 2nd green light they have seen? This happens far far more often than a COD on a CM ride here in LA. Where's your passion to end this from happening and helping the "cause" you are claiming above? And don't get me started on the blocking of traffic during race day!
RB-
especially in this starfuck dreamer richie rich city in which hardly anyone considers cycling an alternative to cars. I mean if you just want to keeep ridership low and have car drivers think of bikers as a bunch of "leftwing hippie assholes" then sure lets go nuts and terrorize cars.
Me-
I've seen far far worst on many of the MR rides than any of the CM rides I've attended. Again, where the passion for your "cause"? These problems have been around for years now. I really don't see much fight for the "cause".
RB-
but if you want to invite them out of their cars, and grow the constituency then my opinion is that you have to make it feel inclusive and not antagonistic.
Me-
My own opinion is that this could happen with flyering and stuff, but to tell you the truth, getting 100 bicycle riders around the city is alot easier than 1000. There really isn't that much of the run in of the pissed off driver. This happens far more often with a larger group. And no I really don't think there's pissed off drivers during a COD. It happens and it's over before anyone reaches the boiling point. It's more of a shaking of the head and a look of "what a bunch of idiots". :o)
RB-
In other cities CM is huge because they have the constituency of full time cyclists to do it. in this city the constituency is not there yet but growing.
Me-
Well this constituency is always welcomed as is those silly ones in that stretchy stuff they wear. Hell their even welcomed to come and try and change a few people's minds. But I don't see CM changing to accommodate them!
let me give you the info about this thing called, "The Circle of Death" COD, as I know it. The first I heard of it, was from Rev 106's events, behind his bike store (which you should attend the event, shop and have your bike fixed at his store, if needed). He referred to the ring where he puts on the different events, as the circle of death. All of the sudden we do a circle in an intersection, and Chicken Leather, starts calling it the circle of death. I'm thinking, why are you calling it that, that is the inner ring of tires for the Choppacabra' events. He keeps on calling it that, then his girlfriend starts calling it that, then User1 and everybody else starts calling it that.
Circle of Death, where you can get injured, broke a bone or possibly die, the disclaimer (i paraphrase) says. I'm thinking, nobody wants to get hurt, or die when we take an intersect over by circling it. Bike riding is a life promoting activity. Driving a car (even though, I have been but in situation where I am forced to uses them) is not a life sustaining activity. Yes people die from accident and breathing the deadly exhaust pollution from cars. (You can argue with me about that statement) So I figure I call it, the circle of Life.
I don't know anywhere else I have heard the term Circle of Death, beside the Chopacabra' events, and Chicken Leather mis-using the term. I could be wrong.
Like I said before, I haven't seen it done much accept for in san diego, (where I first saw it) and on the SFV-CM. We might have done it at the LACM, but I don't remember for sure. It's really no big deal, you might have your usual horn blown, just like when you are corking. I like the way it is used in San Diego. They do it around the fountain at Balboa Park to get the ride started, and let everybody get warmed up, while other people our lagging along to saddle up. Its gets the ride in a good mood there. I have found it gets the ride in a happy mood at SFV-CM.
"Are you telling me that's not more antagonistic to the drivers as they sit there starring at the 2nd green light they have seen? This happens far far more often than a COD on a CM ride here in LA. Where's your passion to end this from happening and helping the "cause" you are claiming above? "
yes I am telling you that. the difference is that a COD of 100 can be seen as specifically designed to hold up traffic. where as a ride of 500 or more moving through an intersection will likely NOT be perceived as such so long as they keep it cool. as per the COD that I witnessed you were right, the reaction seemed to be as you said, anywhere from "what a bunch of idiots" to honking the horn and being pissed. or just not knowing wtf. but mainly people understood it to be a purposeful disruption of all lanes of traffic. as Muff said, people are generally on the fence about anything. If you smile at them and thank them for waiting they generally give you a good reaction, if they feel you are intentionally being a dick then they dislike you.....
"I've seen far far worst on many of the MR rides than any of the CM rides I've attended. Again, where the passion for your "cause"? These problems have been around for years now. I really don't see much fight for the "cause"."
when I designed and built this site and wrote all the copy a little more than a year ago, there was one single massive uncontrol-able MR ride and not much else going on in the city save for a couple small CM rides..... a year later I'm happy to see that most weeks it's hard to choose which ride to go on there are so many social party rides happening. that was the plan believe it or not from launch of the site. when we the organizers got together to figure out how to solve the problem of this ride... this ride that all of us agreed had become too massive and antagonistic... the idea I put out there was just simply to create more rides and make it easy for anyone to do too. I figured that if people had the ability to make their own rides and discuss them et al. It would eventually split that 1700 rida mass into smaller less antagonistic local rides.... which is what has happened to a pretty decent degree.... it aint perfect, there are still overly massive rides.... which is OK in my humble opinion there should be the occassional huge ride.... so, this "cause" is being vigorously fought for whether you realized it or not... I would say the site itself has helped people to spread the ideals of MR to different areas besides "evil hipster" silverlake. it takes some work to maintain it, a few bucks for hosting... but its a cause worth fighting for cause it's fun.
PS I've decided that this evil silverlake hipster personally gots love for the valley. the Valley's Cruz With Us MR rides are the SHIT mainly cause the girl to guy ratio is much better out there, even though they all seem to exclusively desire SpeedyBrian.....
and dont sell ya selves short... riding a bicycle DOES make one holier than a lowly motorist! riding bikes is cleaner,cheaper, it keeps one'smind agile, it makes one healthy, it makes one have regular healthy hearthy chipotle ciabatta BMs...
Not anti-car, pro bike. I own a bike shop, I have to own a car (I own 4 cars, take that hippies!) my life style means car ownership, truck ownership, van ownership. You think the bicycle fairy brings all that crap to my place, or when I do a Choppercabras events all that stuff just appears there? Get real.
The problem with this "forum" is that people can just take what you say out of context and pick it apart, it's called a straw man argument.
This banter can go on forever and never resolve.
Ride for what ever reason that makes you do it.
Ride for fun
Ride for "the cause" (I don't know what that is still)
But in the end, just ride your bike.
RB-
yes I am telling you that. the difference is that a COD of 100 can be seen as specifically designed to hold up traffic. where as a ride of 500 or more moving through an intersection will likely NOT be perceived as such so long as they keep it cool.
Me-
Hey we keep it cool! And the COD is not designed to hold up traffic. If that was the desire, then why not do it at a spot where there is a straight lane and for a longer period of time? Why not just stop in the intersection if the desire is to stop traffic? The COD is just one small part of CM rides and you're getting lost in something that hardly happens.
And I contend that there are far more pissed off drivers on ONE LARGE MR ride than there are on a years worth of LACM rides, no matter how cool you keep it! I know as I have been on both rides numerous times!
RB-
as per the COD that I witnessed you were right, the reaction seemed to be as you said, anywhere from "what a bunch of idiots" to honking the horn and being pissed. or just not knowing wtf. but mainly people understood it to be a purposeful disruption of all lanes of traffic.
Me-
You left out one of amusement. As I said before these are done in highly visible areas and there has been many people on the sidewalks and crossing the street that are whooping it up too. There are VERY few pissed off drivers as you maintain. Why? Cause we are outa there before they reach that threshold of pissed offness. And people look at bikes and bicyclist as a disruption of traffic in general. How many people still have the thought that bikes should be on the sidewalk? You think their that sophisticated that they can differentiate between a COD move and taking the lane? GIve me a fuckin break!
RB-
as Muff said, people are generally on the fence about anything. If you smile at them and thank them for waiting they generally give you a good reaction, if they feel you are intentionally being a dick then they dislike you.
Me-
True but as we've seen in other threads, they've already made up their minds. They are pissed waiting two cycles of lights and starring at a green. No amount of smiling is going to calm their nerves!
The "cause", evil hipsters, valley, etc, etc-
No one is disputing that you have not done alot with this site and done alot for the bike community. I am just saying you're getting lost in one little aspect of the LACM that frankly doesn't happen that much. And when it does, it's over in two minutes. You are spending all this energy on this little issue and ignoring the pissing off of drivers on other rides and events. I know as I've seen it. There are solutions to minimizing the pissed off drivers. So far we haven't taken the steps to do this. And this should be far more of an important issue than the COD. When and if you ever solve this, then try to change LACM from your keyboard.
Regarding the name - Circle of Death
This was done and called this during the days of CM starting at Parkman(?) and Sunset. That has been my first exposer to it.
I dont think that BBD is goin to be here this friday he may be goin up to SFcM, but maybe some one else can bring some tunes, Music please Maestro....anybody
In looking out my windows, I can't help but to notice a gray sheath of moist clouds looming over this petri dish that is Los Angeles.
Is this ride going to be a "rain or shine" deal?
I am partial to riding in the rain. I like that whole wheel spinning mud up my back so I can look all skunk-like.
"And the way the rain comes down hard, that's how I feel inside...."
Also, I think BBD (how rad is that to have an acronym/nickname?) is going up to SFCM. That's what I read. Don't know if it changed.
I have music in my head. If you put your ear really close to me, you might hear it. That or I'll bite you.
Anyone else riding over to this from the Westside? I'm coming in from Santa Monica, if peeps wanna join I might roll down Main to Venice to Crenshaw to Wilshire.
I'm coming from the W.Side but need to meet someone at work on my way to LACM so i'm driving there. Otherwise, a ride out and back would have been good.
And the forecast said only chance of drizzle this AM but cool and dry for tonights ride.
Looking forward to tonight's ride.
I haven't been on my bike in about a month due to some minor health issues and time constraints. I missed you peeps and the rides so much!!!!
I hope we have a good ride that doesn't leave anyone behind, because I think I might be bringing up the rear on this one.
Sup man... It's called DWYCK. I remember watching them on "In Living Color" Hmmm... back in the day. Good stuff.
I'm gonna pick up a newer amp cause it was jacking up on me towards the end. It kept on cutting in and out. I had a lot of fun on my first LACM and it was nice meeting all you guys. You guys doing the Fetish ride today?? It will be dope! Laters all!!
Hey Eddie and the others that led... great job. Oh and MAJOR props to those that were corking all the time... I forget your names... great job in keeping the group together. Thanks again for a great ride.
We could have been an aimless group just roaming the city in search of our way, but then Eddie shows up and grabs the reigns and Al's music kept everyone's aural pleasure centers bouncing along.
YO AL here's that song i was talking about... perfect soundtrack for CM rides....
tell me is it time to get down, on your motherfucking knees
i just posted this youtube link cos it's easier than sending a file. unfortunately this seems to be censored which kills the fun a bit, HOWEVER i do of course have the uncensored version so let me get that to you if you want it
This was my wife's and my very first Critical Mass ride, and we had a ball! We felt like real rebels, rolling through The Grove. Thanks, Al (I guess that's your name, though we never actually met) for bringing the tunes, 'cause they substantially enhanced the experience.
-->
Ridazz Roulette!
"If one wanted to make LACM a healthier ride all one would need to do is blah blah blah..."
Time 4 Jousting?
FYTS
what??!!
oooh! ooohh!! ah! ahhh!!!
I'm going as my favorite super villain and hijacking this ride to Irvine CM ride......... who's with me?
crashing the 
I knew I wuz smart sometimes
Have fun in Irvine Allen... 
You know what we do to sprawl developers in this town, right, son?
"we're waiting for YOU!"- fuzzbeast & the boobies
KITTEH LIKS FIYTS
Oops, sorry, forgot
First of all it's called the circle of death by practically every cm'er out there. I've only seen it on this list called "the circle of life" and that's been by Dave. Shit what's next? Change the game Doom to Hopefulness? Do an impromptu survey on the main CM list on what to call it and we'll leave it at that. Yeah rather silly, but it's best to address the name thing now. Let Dave call it what he want.
All bike rides will piss off some motorists. An "us vs. them" mentality will engender no good will toward people on bikes. Ride for the fun, the love of the ride, the sweat, the grease, but not some abstract political idea. I don't think politics are translated well in a hoard of people on bikes, if you want to be political go be a politician, if you want to ride go ride. I like CM because it’s leaderless, egoless, non-exclusive, free for all, and fun as hell, it’s not scenster based or advantageous to social climbers, not hip, not cool, for bicycle dorks, it’s real. Friday’s CM was the best in a long time because we just RODE. We did not hijack the ride for some other event or some protest, if you want to go to those things; then go to them instead. You think that by riding a bike puts you on some higher moral plateau than everyone else, you’re dead wrong.
Not anti-car, pro bike. I own a bike shop, I have to own a car (I own 4 cars, take that hippies!) my life style means car ownership, truck ownership, van ownership. You think the bicycle fairy brings all that crap to my place, or when I do a Choppercabras events all that stuff just appears there? Get real.
I will be promoting this mini bike event, so no CM for me this time. You'll just have to hurl insults without my help this time.
I dont think that BBD is goin to be here this friday he may be goin up to SFcM, but maybe some one else can bring some tunes, Music please Maestro....anybody
"7:30 AM ???
we has more pix