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Thread started by mr rollers at 02.10.08 - 10:52 pm
I've been thinking this over for a few days, since Friday night's ride, trying to figure out the best way to try to say and explore what I'm thinking & feeling. I speak only for myself (to the best of my limited ability); so you can dismiss this as the rantings of a grumpy middle-aged dude if you choose to. I know that we’ve been over some of this ground before, but I want to get this off my chest, so here goes:
The obvious question is, “why do I go on these rides?” For fun, of course. I love riding a bike anytime, but a group ride is something else, something special, because it is a GROUP ride. We all know the sense of bicycle empowerment and camaraderie, the exhilaration that occurs on these rides. I could go on about what Midnight Ridazz means to me, but I think most of us have essentially the same story.
But (you knew I was getting at something here), "what's buggin' you, Rollers?" In a nutshell, anything that breaks up the rides or detracts from the group nature of the ride. This includes:
1.Seeing Ridazz being scraped off the pavement or getting hit by cars. I also don’t particularly enjoy unnecessary confrontations, littering or other forms of disrespect to the neighborhoods we pass through.
2.Ridazz that endanger themselves and their fellow Ridazz. I won't go on and on about the drunken thing here, that's already being covered on some other threads, I’ll just say that I know none of us are perfect, just please think twice before endangering yourself or others around you.
3.What’s the hurry? Speaking of dangerous, what’s the point of riding on the other side of the road, riding on the sidewalk, cutting through Ridazz traffic with inches to spare, all like you’re in a big hurry to get somewhere. It’s GROUP ride, people! And we’re gonna stop anyway!
4.Speaking of which, what’s with these interminable stops? I enjoy a little “stop, party & drink”, but it doesn’t have to take five hours to ride 20 miles. I know a good number of friends on the rides and I enjoy talking to them, as well as meeting new people, but perhaps we need to remember that Midnight Ridazz is a rolling party, not just a roll to a party. I had several opportunities to bail on last Friday’s ride, but I don’t feel right without seeing a ride through to its conclusion. Maybe I’m just funny that way - I had to stop and count, Friday’s Midnight Ridazz was my 30th, and I’ve finished them all.
None of this is meant in any way as a slam in any way against the organizers of Friday’s ride (or any ride for that matter). I’ve been involved in numerous rides on different levels over the past few years and I know that leading these things can be like herding cats (insert kittens joke here) and that certain standards of behavior can’t be enforced.
Call me an old hippie, but I’d like to see us all work together to make these rides better for everyone, the old timers and the newcomers. I want to see this thing continue to flourish and grow. I want to enjoy Midnight Ridazz for a long time to come.
I really respect what you said. I think we all need to acknowledge the points he made and try to keep Midnight Ridazz a cohesive group ride, look out for each other, and have a good awareness of safety.
The stops were long in part because of the theme, I think. I agree that they should get back to being normal length "break points" rather than dragging as long as they have been.
I think we should continue to remind each other the points Stephen has stressed. It's hard to say how well people will respect these suggested guidelines, but I will continue to support them and remind people about them as long as I keep riding. Mr Rollers has been doing these rides consistently since the beginning of Ridazz. He should know well what we need to be doing. Ride On!
1 and 2 are perfect. I cringe every time I see carnage or hear carnage behind me. I think the Art Ride from the Brewery was the one where I witnessed the most carnage.
3. Not only riding fast but stopping fast, too. Remember, unless you're the last rida there is going to be someone behind you. Don't suddenly stop in the middle of the road. There may not be cars but there is more than likely a bunch of people right behind you.
Yeah I agree with everything above. I really would like to see a little slower of pace and less stops. Stopping to buy beer is no big deal, but I think we should roll shortly after the last rida is out of the store. Littering still seems to be a problem too.
Nelson's crash bothers me since this never should have happened. Flat road with no cars, well lighted street, and everyone just cruising. Accidents are not suppose to happen in that situation.
I also agree with Stephen's comments however, i really believe that the majority of the violators probably aren't the ones reading this thread.
In general, i'd say its a small community of ridazz who actually post on the boards regularly. I'm also sure there are many lurkers who never post but whenever i see someone riding on the opposite side of the yellow line or doing stunts with their mountain bike on sidewalks, its not a familiar face. Often, same goes for newer riders who can't keep their line while riding. That's why i've stopped wearing clips. I've been taken down once already and the other rider is always fine and not always apologetic.
all-in-all friday's ride seemed pretty mellow (compared to others) --- the stops were so long ..................... though -- what happened to nelson not withstanding, people seemed pretty mellow.
Yes, crossing the double yellow puts everyone at risk. And, personally, i'm done with corking intersection for 20 minutes.
If anything, I'm sometimes the "Bret Maverick" riding on the sidewalk, or opposite side of yellow.
Although this is only for a brief period, as I must add to my scrapbooks for later sharing.
Different vantage points offer a wider picture of what goes down, or up, or side-to-side.
riss, I wanted to add that I know you put a lot of work into this ride and your efforts are greatly appreciated. Planning an MR is a big responsibility, but finally there's only so much one or two organizers can do. That's why I'm saying it's up to all of us posting and reading here to keep the rides on track. We as a group decide and influence the overall shape of Midnight Ridazz. Some of these issues are due to new riders coming in - I don't see that as a bad thing (we were all new at one time), but there's a process of awareness and learning that needs to take place.
On another note, I really enjoyed Friday night's route, I was just sorry that we couldn't finish it as a larger group.
It scares me to see peeps on the other side of the yellow line, I imagine all kinds of nasty stuff happening that I don't want to see.
Do we have flyers at rides for newbies, or more of this info posted on here. Everyone I bring to the rides is told nicely how they should ride. You bring someone, you are responsible for them to know the few rules.
Rollers is right. We experienced the same situation Saturday night at the Unemployed ride too. Some people are just hustling hard. While the new people and the beach cruisers are left in the dust.
The object of these rides is to remain a cohesive group. Our impact is greater and the massive show of force awe-inspiring.
Also thanks Rollers for using words that I haven't seen since college...."interminable" definition:having or seeming to have no end, wearily protracted.
hustling at an MR is pretty dumb, theres like 10 rides a week all with different paces, keep the hustling to the right ride. it takes the magic away if you haul ass. Maybe not disclosing the route is beneficial? but that definitely requires people to stay focused and following the leader... so who knows...
Thank you Rollers, I appreciate it. It was alot more than I could handle. I wont say what kids decide they want to book it on rides but it's seriously irritating. Just because you dont have the stamina for a real hustle, they feel the need to do it on a slow ride like MR. Its lame.
I agree with the "if you bring someone, school them" idea, and I think it's much better than flyers. Flyers seem didactic and preachy. I never read flyers, ever. They'll just wind up on the ground, anyway.
If it looks like they're on the ride alone, and they're doing ill-considered tricks or fwizzzzing past or otherwise biking like an asshole, then maybe a friendlily (?) worded warning is in order. "Hey, man, you can't see it because it's behind you, but your tricks are fucking up the line of bikers in your wake." "Hey, man, you can't see it because you're a fucking idiot, but you're in a lane that's going in the opposite direction, and it's the fast lane." Etc.
i agree its definitely a real problem. I appreciate and sympathize with your efforts Riss, et al..
On one hand, route slips alows everyone to meet up, no matter there pace. On the other hand, they allow ppl to hustle to the spot ahead of everyone.
On the Los Angelopes ride I announced to everyone that "this is the only ride that SHOULD be slow." But it didnt matter, people rode however fast they felt like going, regardless. Then I announced that "if you're fast enough to be at the front, you're bike isn't fucked up enough." That didnt matter either, and I dont have a real solution.
I am going to say this once, in all seriousness:
I WILL SLASH YOUR TIRES ON A LOS ANGELOPES RIDE.
if there is one ride to be FUCKING SLOW, Los Angelopes is it. People work really hard to make fucked up pieces of metal and rubber ride-able, and this is the ride for them. If you feel the need, start another group that goes ahead. No problem.
Hey Riss... I had alot of fun and you and those that helped did a great job and had an awesome route. Problems and accidents will happen and it's just something you could prepare so much for.
Understanding that the Valentines ride was a dance/ride... it is going to be a longer ride with a longer stop to get our groove on. I agree with you Rollers and totally feel what you're saying. As far as keeping the group together on other rides, that's always going to be a tough one but it's possible. If there is someway that we can call in to lets say a pace setter up front... then the group starts to separate... maybe we can pull into a lot... for the sole purpose of regrouping. Then proceed to the scheduled stop to reload and stuff.
The quickest MR ride I remember was the one that started at the old K-Mart on Fletcher and San Fernando Rd. I couldn't believe the ride was over. But It was different... like weird that we didn't stand around.
Like mentioned earlier... unlike two years back... there was pretty only MR. But now there are so many ride and different vibes that most us know what to expect.
The rides and the people on the ride... pretty amazing combination. Good times...
if only a select few know the route, no one can go faster than those people. tthe only problem with this is that if someone has a mechanical problem along the way, they run the risk of getting seperated and lost.
btw, thank you everyone for picking up your trash at the stops friday night. it was really nice to see how clean the start, and the other stops on friday were when everyone left. keep it up.
Out of curiosity, How many people work the Sins & Sprocket rides? If you are trying to put on the ride with just a few people, it obviously becomes harder to keep everything on track. On the S&S rides, there are always several up front some spread out in the middle and some in the back. I don't know how many total actually volunteer but it seems well managed.
I'm starting to work on a couple of music based rides and i can handle the spoke card design and the playlists. I even created a sheet listing the last trains out from all the stops to aid people in scheduling. But its on the actual ride where i really want the added to support to make the ride enjoyable for all.
i'll give you help if you need it. I rode cleanup on Fri night to make sure the stops were clean when we left and help people with flats and stuff along the way. I don't want to do it every time but i don't mind doing it on occasion. It worked well friday night. I found one person stranded by himself fairly far behind and struggling with a flat, and it only took me 5 minutes to pick up the leftover bottles and trash at the stops. B-RAD hung back with me to help so I wasn't bored riding the whole thing by myself.
SteveO, there's usually a good number of people that have experience and will help out on rides if you put the word out.
Just for the record, when I refer to people going to fast on rides, I don't have a specific stereotype of bike or rider in mind. It's a behavior that occurs with all types of bikes and riders, but it's generally the ridazz that appear to have less experience in riding with a large group. Just keep your eyes open and go with the flow.
If you think you're seriously fast, show up at Tang's on Monday at 10pm. You just might learn something . . . really.
That would be cool Brassknuckles. I'd appreciate some help (not necessarily as clean up crew). If you remember, i was the 'leave no trace' guy at the Culver City Gazebo on the last Los Angelopes ride. Got pitch in when we can.
Rllrz, I appreciate you starting such a thoughtful dialog.
I have been in the position of trying to reign in the fasties and it's a difficult to thing to do.
Ridazz look at the ridaa in front not the ridaa behind them. This is a very big part of it. It is VERY easy for somebody on a road-bike or fixie to totally dust somebody on a cruiser or a double suspension mountain bike, Without even thinking about it. Those bikes want to go fast. Also, many ridazz have a chase reflex similar to certain dogs. I say let the fast people go off into the sunset and pay attention to the people in the middle and the back.
My solution as when I have lead rides is to let the fast ridazz just ride off the front and try and get the middle group to keep pace with the slower riders. You can't yell after some fast riders and get then to stop as easily as you can convince those around you to mellow the pace and wait for for those behind.
It is imperative that more
people take on some responsibility.
It is impossible for one person (except maybe RB) to control such a mass!
We really need more and more people to step up to the plate and help control the ride. The more people we have keeping things cool the less we will have to rely on a few angry people yelling: SLOW DOWN THIS IS A RIDE NOT A HUSTLE !!!!
It is imperative that we have people committed to leading the ride in the front and others who will ride clean up. For a 500+ person ride there should probably be at least 10 informed/ commited people though out the ride who will act as stewards.
It is LOTS of work to put on a ride of this scale. I think most people take for it granted. We really need people to start stepping up to the plate and helping out in an organized way: leading, middling, caboosing, first aide, crisis management, etc.
I think this will be a combination between people asking for help and of ridazz being willing to step up to the plate.
****
As far as grouping together I have been starting to think that it is not always the best thing for us to be one gigantic uninterupted mass.
Drivers should not have to wait more than 2 light cycles, that is usually when they get crabby and dangerous and may try to navigate the thinning mass.
I think we should start thinking about the mass in terms of clusters that travel at their own pace and reconvene at certain points.
Smaller groups don't overwhelm the right lane(s) and don't make for long waits at a light.
****
As always I thin our #1 priority is to make this as fun as possible for all so we will attract new ridazz, charm the carzz, and so our faithful don't suffer burn out.
"I think we should start thinking about the mass in terms of clusters that travel at their own pace and reconvene at certain points.
Smaller groups don't overwhelm the right lane(s) and don't make for long waits at a light."
Hmmmmmmmm let me give you my professional opinion on this,
Yeah, I think if we can try to keep the ride as together as possible without it being a huge hassle for any individual ridaa, that'd be preferable. For everyone.
If this were a government, it should be as much of a hands-off type of government as possible without chucking ridazz by the wayside when they get flats and the like. Let's not over-regulate.
I didnt get to ride the last two MR fridays and one of the things I've heard is tht the stops are too long.... maybe for march we can get back to riding more and keeping the group togethr better... 4 years and counting......
I would suggest to buy your shit before the ride like the old days. stopping at 7-11 and waiting for everyone of 3-400 ridazz to get their refills is too long of a wait
"Hey man, you can't see it because you're showing off, but the inexperienced person you brought to the ride on a clunky bike is struggling to keep up."
"Hey man, you can't see it because you're trying to mack on the girl next to you, but my bike and I are right in front of AAAAAAAAARRGHGH!!!@@(*CRASH*)"
Thanks for "the rantings of a grumpy middle-aged dude." It's an important dialogue for everyone to have. I like the idea of multiple people working a ride - keeping it together, etc. - although it should be working, of course, not policing.
On that note - Steveo I would be happy to help as well.
You know what was one of my biggest "yuck" moments ever in a group ride.
Seeing a grown man completely lose his shit, eyes puffy and tears on his face and run out in an intersection and start trying to tackle riders. Literally begging somebody to attack him, to beat him up because, in his words that would would be better than having to sit in the car with his 15 year old dying cat that was being taken to the vet to be put to sleep. That put a little bit of a pall on the SFCM15 for me that was otherwise a very beautiful ride.
Corking has its time and place. But there are worse things in this world then stopping for an occasional red light, even if you beer buddy is on the other side of it.
That's why it's best to keep the pack together, to get through the light. So people can get on with their business. But I don't advocate to hold someone up for 2 or more light cycles. If the ride is packed and moving at a leisurely pace, it can get through an intersection with in one light cycle.
I don't have a yuck moment to neutralize your yuck moment, so you got me there.
There's something that everyone's tiptoeing around, so I'm going to say it.
There seems to be a fairly new contingent of fixed gear riders who are just not getting the spirit of MR. They are aggressive, confrontational, intolerant and frankly I'm not thrilled that they're riding with us.
I hear them talking shit about Ridazz who "act weird". Acting weird is half the reason I come to these rides. I'm trying to escape the macho, too cool for school bullshit that you can find anywhere else. Annie screams, Franz gets half-naked, and these guys are snickering and muttering shit to each other. I hate the vibe that creates.
Ironically, I ride a fixie. These guys make me want to get a freewheel. Or at least secede from this new fixie nation. Our bikes are the only thing we have in common.
Stay with the group or don't ride with us. It's that simple.
There's a difference between "Hang out- Break points" and "regrouping". When I began going to Midnight Ridazz in mid 2005, I noticed that there were intermittent stops so that most stragglers could regroup. It seemed to be helpful and not annoying as they were not for more than a few minutes each. Corking was a lot more prevalent too at needed times.
Also, there's usually one or two longer 15min "Break Spots" - (e.g. sixth street bridge, or a park, etc. )
Ultimately, regarding running red lights and sudden stopping, people need to be responsible for themselves and not be stupid.
I'm as late to this dance I was early in leaving Friday's.I bailed after 30 minutes of winding my balls and scratching my watch at MacArthur Park and grumped the fuck up to Tommy's to console myself with a doublechees before grumping the rest of the way home. I hung around a bit longer with the pillow fight ride, last month but also took off home from the Caltrans building after standing around counting my chest hairs while people swung fluffy stuff at their heads with no sign of it ever stopping.
Needless to say, I totally agree with Rollers.
I heartily heart heart heart Midnight Ridazz. When it's good 'n simple it's uplifting and life-affirming, like so during a more mobile portion of the evening:
But if the next one tries to be too many things to too few people, I'm out. Let's just ride!
I liked the long stops on the last two rides. I'm sure you would have had more fun if you participated in the themed festivities: dancing and pillow fighting. If you only want to ride, then it'll be clearly stated in the ride's description (check out CubCamp and WolfPack). If you wanna play in the streets and parks of Los Angeles, then you'll know which events to attend.
There are some times when we want to experiment. Sometimes it will fail. Hopefully we learn and improve.
Everyone has the ability to help. Meaning: You can complain about it, or you can change it by helping to cork, remind people to stay on the right lane, help others with flats, remind people to slow down the pace, and keep your eyes on the time when we reach a break point so it doesn't take forever. It's hard for one person to do it alone. Everyone can be working together. I think it's needed when there's large scale summer rides. It doesn't mean you hijack the leaders ride, but rather, be a motivator to help keep things together. Wouldn't you agree that it requires some of that?
Perhaps some of the people who are always doing it get tired and wish others could step up. "Where's the fun in that", you say? I think every aspect of doing a ride can be fun.
Anyways, I agree with Agent Orangel - "Keep it simple" is a great point to remember for future organizers.
Oh and one more... I haven't heard this.. maybe cause of alot of new people... but remember the "Midnight Ridazz!! Ride On!!" thing? I haven't heard a good "Ride On!" for a long time. I tried yelling it a couple times... I miss that.
Hmm.. I remember doing the SMCM when the news vans came out and boogalooShrimp was sweeping the end and he was using a walkie talkie. He was relaying everything from being seperated and everything. I'd be down to bring mine out and we all transmit on the same channel. Or use cell phones. Then we've got to watch out for the FCC...
Fixed gear riders have shitty attitudes, they should be banned.
Right now I'm searching for a sweet-ass Murray 18spd Mountain Bike. I'm pretty sure that this simple change in equipment will lead to an instant change in my own attitude.
I'm telling my friends (you know, those guys to do the same.
It's also important to note that even with my "shitty attitude" (mostly caused by the bike I ride) I chased a car with another guy (also riding fixed) after it hit a rider and then basically decided that hitting a human being with a vehicle wasn't enough to warrant pulling over.
We gave chase for about 1/4 of a mile, but the van dusted us after turning off onto another street.
Then we had to sprint all the way back from Silverlake to vermont/beverly just so we didn't get lost.
Case in point, generalizations are lame. If you don't like the kids in the schoolyard, just ignore em'.
Not that anyone will read post #63 of topic #2170 but here is my 2 cents
- Always start at a Market like the Pioneer Chicken in Echo Park or the Vons on Hollywood and Vermont. That way we don't have to stop 20 min later to buy stuff. Yes it would be great if everybody would arrive prepared but it doesn't happen.
- Keep the rides a bit zig zaggy. This may require maps to be drawn. Whenever we have long straight stretches of road the gap between front and back becomes longer. Otherwise prepare to move in 2-3 clusters as suggested above.
- Start Earlier. Meet at 9:30 leave at 10 becomes leave at 10:45-11:00. That's too late. Many people need to be done by 1 or 2am cause they have another hour to get home. Otherwise it becomes an allnighter and screws up their whole week. If we meet at 8:30 and leave at 9:00 hopefully we'll be gone by 10.
- For a 20 mile ride, 3 stops every 5 miles should be sufficient. At least one of them should be next to a market. If the front stops at red lights it allows the back to catch up. Unfortunately often the reverse happens. The massive front blows red lights while the thinning back gets stuck on them.
- Even the best planned rides can get sidetracked by mechanical problems, police interference and/or random morons.
- GASP. I agree with Jeff. If you come to a pillow fight ride or a dance ride don't complain that people take too long pillow fighting or dancing. It was part of the plan.
- We can use more rides that are more riding less partying. I think weekend afternoons would be a good time. In the morning you have people who like to go too fast, at night people who go too slow. A noonish ride would be something in the middle and it could cover things like the FLWright tour that Agent Orange is putting together.
aarrggh . . . I had a big, long, and now somewhat irrelevant post going, took too long revising it, got interrupted and finally got logged out . . . fuck!
But I will ask this: how many ridazz actually finished Friday's route? And how many of those really finished it only to get back to their cars? By the way, it was a very cool route, I thought. I rode the entire thing, then rode back to Echo Park and returned home at 3am.
Marino, lots of good suggestions. I remember when the rides actually did start at 10pm, maybe 10:05.
I left when we got to east los. most of the time i ride home alone after a midnight ride. but i always try and finish all the rides. think ive only left a ride early like 3 times.
Spiraldemon and Marino are absolutely right: If there's a plan for long-ass stops and I dare elect to go expecting to actually RIDE somewhere than my bad and I'll just STFU. This new rule will come especially handy for future events like "The Watching Paint Dry Ride" or "The 9,999 Bottles Of Beer On The Wall Ride" or "The Grow A Bonsai Tree Ride" or "The Let's Go Someplace And Just Hangout and Not Ride Ride." Good to know.
Great idea, or maybe "999 Bottles". We get 999 Ridazz in a long ass pace line and as each rida gets to the front they do one refrain and then drop back!
kyber:
anonymous coward made an generalized observation which i agree with. i observed it on the unemployment ride and i've seen it on other rides. but i've also seen cyclists on other bikes who can't ride in a straight line, or don't even realize that it's dangerous to ride in a crooked fashion while they're bobbing their bodies up and down to the music. that can be just as annoying but so is a screaming mimi.
and the part about annie screaming is an erroneous statement.
public apology now! please show some respect.
she should be playing the drum set in the background instead.
ladies and gentlemen,
i can understand how easy is it to misinterpret internet talkingz, but i personally did not interpret anonymous coward's post as a 'fixie bashing' post, but rather an opinion that he has garnered from his observation(s). 'regular' fixie riders with bashful chihuahuas tend to keep things cool.
i'm pretty sure Anonymous is talking about a group of bozos who happenned to be riding fixies. i think it was a coincidence more so than a generalization.
The problem is never that there are too many of the things you don't want. The problem is always that there aren't enough of the things you do want.
If one of the things you want is medium-paced bike rides that don't include a lot of stops or programmed activities, the solution is not to lobby for fewer slow theme-filled rides, it's to lobby for (or create) more medium-paced non-themey non-drinky rides.
Then there will be more rides that suit you, but maybe more importantly you will be a happier Rida in general, and perhaps a tad bit less impatient when you occasionally find yourself at a ride that isn't really doing it for you.
MR no longer belongs to any one group or any one way of doing things. When the first set of organizers stepped down, it was with an attitude of "let a hundred flowers bloom."
It took a little while, but they're blooming like motherfuckers now. You just have to know how to pick your flower.
I take your point, PC. As someone who has been doing MR for a while, I've seen it go through changes, maybe I just don't want to see it change TOO MUCH to the point where I don't recognize it as MR. Yes, it's always been drinky & themed. In fact, in some ways it used to be more themed. At least a lot more people actually dressed up for the theme.
Perhaps what bothers me most about last Friday's ride was my perception of the ride just kinda falling apart and not finishing as a group. If we had said, "OK, the ride ends at Mariachi Plaza, make your way home from there", I think I could accept that more easily.
Yes, there are other rides, they're all different, I go on many of them (as you know) and I like them and accept them for what they are. But I want MR to still be my special one.
I agree with you Mr Rollers. With all the new rides starting, why alter the original one? I miss the original format, I wish we can preserve it. I, as you, consider the 2nd Friday Ride as 'special'. I've talk to a lot of people who miss the 'good old days' of more theme. But for this to happen we will need a core of riders who are willing to help.
Midnight Ridazz is a social experiment where every ride has a theme. you'll have much more fun if you're involved with the theme than if you're just riding.
wahh, I miss the "good old days"
wahh, there's too much stopping
wahh, the ride is too slow
wahh, there's too much partying
don't like the way a ride is going? organize one yourself or find one that suits you. not too long ago, you couldn't choose because there was only a single monthly ride. now, there are multiple rides going on all the time.
how can you complain about something that costs the typical rider nothing. it's free!
Jeff relax, I was just offering an opinion . I've tolerated your drunken ass on too many rides and treated you with respect. In your drunken stupor you bumped into me a few times. I know you have a good time on these rides but some of us ride sober and we are hoping there more to it than getting shitfaced.
rules in terms of how to theme a ride or how many stops we should have or how long those stops should be?
lighten up, change is inevitable, especially in this group. the original Midnight Ridazz are not organizing things anymore.
While change is inevitable, it is not necessarily all good. I understand it is a social experiment, but in a setting a large and diverse as MR, it will be driven by the lowest common denominator which is getting shitfaced and riding.
I have not been to a lot of MR rides in a few months because too many close calls with drunken ridazz. After being bumped, curbed and ran into a few times it gets old.
have not been to a lot of MR rides in a few months because too many close calls with drunken ridazz. After being bumped, curbed and ran into a few times it gets old.
there are Rulezz to the ride. (go read them under rulezz of the ride) There is a group of organizers. Not anyone can just take the Name Midnight Ridazz and make it what they want because the name means that you can expect a certain level of incluiveness, planning and quality to the theme and ride.
for example, what if some nazi skinheads decided that they want to throw a ride that involved riding around and vandalizing churches and bashing gays? The ride WOULD NEVER be called Midnight Ridazz.
furthermore, there is still one or two of the original ride organizers left and that happens to be myself and Skull and primarily my promise to Skull was that as I continue with the organizing of this ride, that the original principals of the ride would be followed IF it is to be called a Ridazz ride. My philosophy has been to just keep it loose and generally trust people wont abuse the name if they decide to throw a MR ride.
I consider Mr. Rollers to be one of the new generation of organizers that have stepped up and participated just as many many people have, but if the rides become so abstract as to not adhear to the originl principles of all inclusiveness and to have fun etc then there needs to be push back and an effort to lobby that the rides become more s they once were.
I think Riss and Dany Zuko and Brass Knuckle Speedy Brian BORFO Fuzzbeast Alec, Alex T, Marcus, Richie ,Franz and all the other organizers of MR rides re doing GREAT. the rides are all inclusive and FUN and generally are a rolling party as they should be. so it's important hat Mr. Rollers is voicing n opinion that some things could be paid attention to. That's Midnight Ridazz. anybody that tries to chime in and say that there are no rulezz can invent their own ride and host it. Just dont call it Ridazz because Ridazz SPECIFICALLY has meaning and no one can take that away.
in terms of rules, I meant specifically what some people are having issues with: stopping and partying.
I don't feel that these are things to complain about; the organizers tried something different.
Coupla things: first, just because someone expresses opinions about how ceratin things on MR could be done a little different, I don't think it's fair to label it "complaining".
Second, if someone states that they fear for their safety because of the way others around them are riding, I think that should be taken seriously. It's bad enough to hurt yourself, but perhaps it's important to have a sense of responsibility to your fellow Ridazz. Yeah, I feel bad for Nelson, but how would it be if he had clipped someone's wheel and they had gone face down into the road? Is that the risk we are all agreeing to take when we go on a ride?
Third, I don't think most people object to a little stopping and partying (that's always been part of the MR experience), but when it gets to the point that large numbers of ridazz leave the ride and the ride basically disintegrates, I wonder if it has gone on a little too long. Don't make me drag out the "E" word . . . can you see what I'm getting at?
Maybe the problem is that MR has lost it's novelty, with so many rides why should one finish with the group. It is the same group of people I will ride with tomorrow, and the next day, and the day after that. With so many choices, one can find out within minutes if they will drop out. It does not take a lot of convincing because you can do this again tomorrow.
Even more reason to make each ride unique and establish a formula for each specific ride.
no one is suggestng that the themes werent absolutely awesome. I'm still kicking myself for missing the pillowfight AND the sadie hawkins rides. what they're saying is that people get crazy drunk and can cause harm to people, and that the stops were too long. real easy to fix, not a big deal.
IF I DROP OUT OF A RIDE, IT'S ALWAYS BECAUSE OF THE TOTAL MASS CONFUSION, OTHER THAN THAT I COULD GIVE A FUCK ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE THINKS ABOUT MY RIDING, I'VE NEVER CAUSED ANYONE TO CRASH, ON TIME I RAN INTO A "CHAIN", I JUST DID NOT SEE IT, IT WAS KINDA DRAMATIC, BUT ALAS, I'M STILL FUCKING HERE, AT LEAST IT WAS NOT A CAR! WITH THAT THOUGH IN MIND, ALWAYS CONSIDER YOUR ACTIONS AND WHO AND WHAT KIND OF DAMAGE YOU DO TO ANOTHER RIDAZZ, IF I GET HURT, I CAN DEAL WITH THAT, IF YOU GET HURT, AND I CAUSED IT, THAT IS KINDA DIFFICULT FOR ME TO SWALLOW, I REMEMBER ONE TIME I WATCHED ONE RIDER SWERVING BACK AND FORTH, AND HIS BACK TIRE HIT ANOTHER RIDERS FRONT TIRE, SO WHO'S AT FAULT??? BOTH, THE ONE FOR SWERVING BACK AND FORTH, AND THE OTHER ONE FOR NOT HANGING BACK!!! MOST OF THE TIME THERE ARE ALL ADULTS, SOMETIMES THERE ARE YOUNGSTERS RIDING WITH US, WE HAVE THE POWER TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE WITH THE YOUNGER ONES, AND WE HAVE THE POWER TO CONTROL OUR OWN ACTIONS, SOBER OR SLIGHTLY DRUNK / HIGH, IF YOUR SERIOUS ABOUT YOUR LIFE, AS I AM, THEN WAKE UP!!! QUIT POINTING THE FINGERS AT OTHERS, STICK TOGETHER, FINISH THE RIDE, AND THEN BRAG ABOUT IT AT A LATER DATE, WITH FOND MEMORIES!
My last Friday night rides were Buenos Noches, very fun but maybe too fast, and the Toy Ride, which considering the logisitics I thought went off really well. Speedybrian got us fluffas down to Olvera St in good time and then soon enough the LBC group showed up and we were off to Self Help. Soft as butta!
^^^^ Exactly but if you end up with significantly less people than you started with, then something is wrong. There are no problems with the themes but how it is executed (with inclusiveness in mind). The concepts of the Pillow Fight and Sadie Hawkins are great but still a common remark was the stops were a tad too long. I'm sure there are some who wouldn't mind a longer stop but chances are they would not leave because of a short stop.
About safety and accidents. It is not really and accident if you contributed to its occurrence. If you ride while your judgement is impaired, high or intoxicated, then you are culpable.
I rode straight home from Mariachi square instead of "finishing" the ride because:
1. It was too late. 2am
2. 90% of the ridazz had left already
3. The "official" ride was heading in the opposite direction of the starting point.
But I don't want to advocate that we stayed too long in Mariachi Square. People were still dancing, Patrick was doing his Polaroid thing. He probably blew over $100 of his own money on the Polaroid film. What shall we say; "Next time take pix with your cellphone and post them on Photobucket".?
More people would finnish the ride if we had started earlier/on time.
True more and more of the rides start later than they advertise. This is probably because of people getting there later and later; I am so guilty of this. Maybe this should be one instance of a Rida gets left behind. I like Sins and Sprockets solution of leaving extra route slips or the first stop at the very least.
2 cents= I like the idea of riding more and keeping the stops shorter. However... a HUGE reason I go on MR rides is to do exactly what has been happening. I love hanging out outside in parks, downtown, and on streetcorners that I normally wouldn't. I never mind the stops being so long. It gives me more time to dance and laugh and play.
I should note that I ride my bike everyday. 80% of the time I am riding alone. So when I go to these bigger group rides i am not as worried about getting a lot of miles in. It's so nice to be able to cruise slow (when possible) and stop for extended periods to play.
I really like Trickmilla's idea of letting the three paces of riders form their groups.
I hate saying this, over and over. But honestly, the rides are doing FINE.
They aren't perfect, that's for sure. There are incidents that we can't plan for. When you get a large amount of people in the same space, add a bit of fun & excitement. Put them on wheels, go faster than walking, you get accidents. Accidents happen, but I can almost bet that the number of bad incidences are no larger than the incidents that happen at bars, dance clubs, the tour de france, commutes to work, or crossing the street in general. Shit happens.
The problem I'm seeing right now, is that we have forgotten why we have stops to begin with.
1. To allow people to catch up.
2. To take breaks and refuel.
3. To party.
This is what I propose. Make it clear what kind of stop it is, so people will know what to do when they get there. I'd keep the Catch-up stops, short. at red-lights, for a cycle or two. I'd keep the breaks & refuel stops at markets & 7-11s, etc. We can't stay long at those areas anyway. And I'd keep the Party Stops at the END, away from residents and cops. Such as a park. But, that's just a proposal, and the way I've always done it. Just sayin'.
The rides may be fine but it is healthy to talk about it's state once in a while. If we had consensus then there'll be no problems but to hear something from Mr Rollers, who is arguably the most patient rida I know, then something is up.
The issue might be as simple as a clique has formed and they run the rides. It is usually the same people who plan and promote the rides. It could be that they are of like minds and probably have the same vision of how the ride should be. That is fine if they were the only Ridazz.
I always thought that MR (second Friday) is all inclusive but the nature of what the ride has become excludes a lot of people. I've seen people bring their children to the rides but more and more it seems like a bad idea. Mr Rollers and I, who grew up the same epoch, might also see the ride differently. Everyone takes something different from the ride, we just hope that for a majority it is positive.
There are other rides out that promote partying, Sins and Sprockets is a great example. There is nothing wrong with that because it is the nature of that ride.
"The issue might be as simple as a clique has formed and they run the rides."
If that's so it's because they're stepping in. Has anyone stepped in to lead the March ride yet???
"I always thought that MR (second Friday) is all inclusive but the nature of what the ride has become excludes a lot of people. I've seen people bring their children to the rides but more and more it seems like a bad idea. Mr Rollers and I, who grew up the same epoch, might also see the ride differently. Everyone takes something different from the ride, we just hope that for a majority it is positive."
I grew up in the same epoch, too. And I said earlier I have no opinion on the length of the stops. Variety is the spice of life, short stops on some rides, long ones on others, vive la difference! If every stop was an hour long then I would probably head home early, though.
For what it's worth, it might be easier for people to finish the ride if the ride didn't start 45 mins late as it has been lately.
That's why I cut out. By the time I left Mariachi Square it was about 2am. Not that it's particularly late, but some of us do have to work on the morning.
^^^^ My point exactly, there are differences and let's be more aware of them. At the end it is not about who is right or wrong, someone offered an opinion, that many thought was valid, so lets do something about it.
As far as backing out of an organized MR goes, I never do that myself.
I'm not going to go to the trouble of organizing an airlift and flying 100 miles down to the basin just because of mass confusion.
I simply don't have the luxury to try a different one, every other night.
So, with that said, I believe a soft, form of caretaking should be administered.
Essentially, a few, medium-fast paced riders with walkie-talkies to drift from the front-to-the-back to ensure straggling is kept to a minimum.
People(myself included) with tools should mingle with whomsoever and lightly mention the fact that you come prepared and show off a couple, glitzy gadgets.
And thirdly, as much as I don't like danMarino's idea, I must agree to a measure.
An early, 8p-9p, starting ride would encourage many, if not all, to stay together and see where we all end up next.
As far as fixed-gear pilots being jerkoff's is concerned, y'all should look up the local club here in Victimville on google.
The Victor Valley Bicycle Club=Snobs who will shoot you if you even look at their ride.
1. Everything is fine;
2. The world is going to hell in a handbasket; and
3. People who ride fixed gear bicycles are anonymous meatheads who resent being stereotyped.
If we handle this the right way, I think we can resolve this strike and get the bikes back on the road by tomorrow morning. All we have to do now is sign the paperwork. I'll sign first (to dare the British to come and get me), and the rest of you just sign next to the Xs.
1. Everything is fine;
2. The world is going to hell in a handbasket; and
3. People who ride fixed gear bicycles are anonymous meatheads who resent being stereotyped.
If we handle this the right way, I think we can resolve this strike and get the bikes back on the road by tomorrow morning. All we have to do now is sign the paperwork. I'll sign first (to dare the British to come and get me), and the rest of you just sign next to the Xs.
1. Everything is fine;
2. The world is going to hell in a handbasket; and
3. People who ride fixed gear bicycles are anonymous meatheads who resent being stereotyped.
If we handle this the right way, I think we can resolve this strike and get the bikes back on the road by tomorrow morning. All we have to do now is sign the paperwork. I'll sign first (to dare the British to come and get me), and the rest of you just sign next to the Xs.
"Driftwood is by far the most sadistic member of the Firefly family. He often considers himself to be a revolutionary and an artist; he makes sculptures out of his victims, or skins them to wear as costumes."
1. Everything is fine;
2. The world is going to hell in a handbasket; and
3. People who ride fixed gear bicycles are anonymous meatheads who resent being stereotyped.
If we handle this the right way, I think we can resolve this strike and get the bikes back on the road by tomorrow morning. All we have to do now is sign the paperwork. I'll sign first (to dare the British to come and get me), and the rest of you just sign next to the Xs.
does anybody have count of how many times this topic has been discussed and at what frequency? If we knew the recurrence of the discussion, we can predict, when the next "keeping the ride together" thread will start.
@borfo
Well, except for the skinnin' part, I'm pretty much a revolutionary when it comes to where I currently live.
If you could call riding around the flood barricades an act of revolution!!
CAST:
Mr. Rollers Concerned Citizen
Joe Borfo Captain Obvious
Agent Orange Curmudgeon
Spiraldemon Gasbag
Rev. Dak Ultimak Unlikely Voice of Reason
PC Blowhard #1
User 1 Blowhard #2
Stevo4 Unctuous Community Leader
Katiepoche Comic Relief
Knittens Not-So-Comic Relief
Trickmilla Talky Buzzkill Guy
Anonymous Coward Himself
Marino Pascal Hilarious Foreigner
LIGHTING Kyber
KEY GRIP PAM
FLUFFER Spiraldemon
UNLISTENABLE SOUNDTRACK ON RIDAZZ RECORDS
THE EVENTS AND CHARACTERS DEPICTED IN THIS THREAD
ARE FICTITIOUS AND, IN MOST CASES, SUSPICIOUSLY
FLATTERING TO THEIR AUTHORS. ANY RESEMBLANCE TO
PERSONS LIVING OR DEAD IS HIGHLY UNFORTUNATE.
-->
Ridazz Roulette!
There's a difference between "Hang out- Break points" and "regrouping". When I began going to Midnight Ridazz in mid 2005, I noticed that there were intermittent stops so that most stragglers could regroup. It seemed to be helpful and not annoying as they were not for more than a few minutes each. Corking was a lot more prevalent too at needed times.
More recommendations: (read if you feel like)
Use a mic on your sound system. That should help a little.
I rode straight home from Mariachi square instead of "finishing" the ride because:
Someone sink this thread...
yeah, cause we're really interested...
wearin' mah Cult Navi upsaad down isint propa', an' ah stil' sher up!!
"Driftwood is by far the most sadistic member of the Firefly family. He often considers himself to be a revolutionary and an artist; he makes sculptures out of his victims, or skins them to wear as costumes."
