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Thread started by MikeyWalsh at 03.28.08 - 9:37 pm
At approximately 8:30pm on Friday 28 March 2008 at the intersection of Hollywood Boulevard and Highland Avenue in Hollywood, California, during the Los Angeles Critical Mass ride, the driver of a white Sterling truck consciously and deliberately drove into the intersection and attempted to run down a group of approximately 5 bicyclists. The driver appeared Caucasian or Hispanic with short dark hair. The truck and trailer were white with no markings or logos. The trailer being pulled by the cab was a California license plate #4MD2735. The cab plate is unknown.
I'm the one who chased his ass up Highland to memorize his plate and immediately pulled over and wrote it down.
Feel free to file a police report regarding the incident if you witnessed it. You can also report him to the DMV at:
Great.
Just more shit to give my other profession a bad name.
Was this truck a day-cab like the one pictured, or did it appear to be extended?
If my ass get's pricked for a rollover, this guy will most likely lose his license for what he tried to do at the very least.
With enough witnesses, we could have this jackass removed from the CDL-pool immediately.
@ruinedbyidiots
No. Thank goodness. But one beared dude almost got his fixie crushed under the front wheels when he jumped off the bike and confronted the driver and the driver just revved his engine and plowed past us.
@bentstrider
Not an extended-cab. By my recollection, it was identical to the image shown. I searched all over Google until I found a picture something as close as possible. Right after it happened, I quickly began to scan the truck for distinctive markings or numbers or logos and saw nothing. So, I focused on the style of truck and noted the "STERLING" on the cab before he pulled away and made sure to memorize the plate as I chased him up the street.
I came home early. The ride is still going on. Hopefully the rest of the evening is fun and happy for everyone.
With a day-cab like that, this guy's most likely some local, P & D jackass who get's paid by the hour.
If anything, he's probably connected with any number of companies that do local/short-hauls in the basin area.
Since there were no markings, he could've been doing a run to a local set of market chains.
did anyone get the usdot number on the side of the truck?
with that number you can track who that truck belongs to online and contact the company and insurance carrier as well as file a complaint with the USDOT
@dannyzuko
Unfortunately, no one chased the truck except me, so I doubt anyone got the USDOT. Would be great if someone did. I tried to find the USDOT or any other unique markings or a trucking company name or anything else identifiable. The plate was the best I could muster. I rode up the street right behind him and kept on his tail from Hollywood to just before LaBrea before he was going too fast for me to keep up. There simply wasn't enough time for me to get a better look at anything but the plate.
ok I would never ever suggest anyone do this but there are two hoses and one cable that connect the trailer's electricity and air brake system, completely dangerous but if you reach on the side of the trailer and disconnect the hoses by pulling up, you lock the trailer brakes :P until the hoses are reconnected, just sayin
Yeah, I'm the bearded guy. It was a bold move, but I thought corking the bastard might stop him after he almost ran the pack down, he accelerated right at me. I dropped my bike and ran, Mikey just behind me on his bike. I made eye contact with the pos. He looked to be philipino. There were no markings on the cab or trailer, sadly I didn't catch the usdot number. I strongly suggest everybody does file a complaint with local pd. Thanks to all those checking that was intact <3
@lbRida
Ah. The driver was Asian? My mistake. You definitely got a better look at him than I did. While you confronted him, I was too busy trying to find distinctive markings on the truck.
Yeah, it's good you moved your bike. As much of an ass as the guy was, I don't think he would have been stupid enough to deliberatley run down a human being with 150 witnesses in their cars and on the sidewalk. But I have no doubt he would have crushed your bike without hesitation.
Glad you were okay. He came REAL close to hitting you.
-Not trying to sound malicious here, but it's cool a few of us know how to commandeer such a vehicle if shit got more out of hand.
Not to mention the trailer brake lock-up would've stopped the guy in his tracks long enough for all necessary info to be compiled.
this thread title is a little misleading I was seriously scared to read it. so glad to see that no one was actually run over. wow. sounds fucking scary as hell regardless. give more details. was the mass just getting through the light? heading east to west on hollywood blvd?
Ha,ha.
Pinch-flat by trailer drop onto the drive-tires!!!
That shit almost happened to me after my locking lever froze up in
-5 degree weather up at the Swift terminal in SLC.
Luckily, I stopped quick enough to prevent any damage.
I'm with canadienne and Roadblock ... the title of this thread made me nauseous. I'm very glad to hear no one was hurt. I'm angry that the driver thought he could just muscle through. I'm also angered that the cops brought out 5 cop cars, a helicopter, and motorcycle cops for this.
I heard rumors of gang initiations this weekend in downtown LA. Gang initiations that involve guns and cars. And the cops are spending their time monitoring Critical Mass? That's ridiculous.
ahh the ole circle of death.... almost proved to live up to it's name... a guaranteed inspiration for road rage and retaliation and for the cops to come out....
it's one thing to be riding en mass and getting through intersections as a cohesive group asking traffic to wait a few extra minutes, quite another to appear to purposely stall traffic for a few lights. just be careful out there everyone. people in traffic dont usually think straight and are never happy to be where they are at. and when they see a bunch of happy people keeping them from getting home to the laker game or dinner after a long arduous work day well.... it definitely inspires road rage. hopefully it doesnt spill over onto MR rides or even to the more vulnerable individual cyclist.
on another note be cautious in the Echo Park / Elysian Park area. a cyclist was recently shot with a bb gun rifle 3 times (once to the leg twcie hitting the bike) bywhat was described by the victim as two bald headed latino males in a white toyota corolla.
-That seems to be me about 90% of the given time.
Aside from the consideration of packing, I already carry a bat on my handlebars when going to most places by myself.
You never know when the four-wheeled knucklehead wants to stop and play five-on-one.
I recorded the white truck and It's uploading to youtube. The side of the truck doors and the mud flaps have TCI written on it. I'm pretty sure this is the website based on the pictures of their trucks for sale on there. Looks to be the same logo.
-Yes.
Then the concentrated fumes of emanating methane will cause the car to asplode when the driver tries to start it up.
High energy sparks+400ppb(f/m-.30)=run away!!!
you got to ask yourself though if we we're just walking and blocking traffic would he do that? or if we were in cars would he knudge us? would that truck charge at a car?
Hollywood Blvd was gridlocked last night anyway.
On some portions of the stretch, cars were stuck in the middle of intersections.
The East-West direction of the Hollywood Blvd at Highland, which was suffering from gridlock, was really not affected by the COD. The North-South direction was a little better, but not by much. The truck entered the intersection Northbound. The COD was over by then and some riders were just trying to cross the intersection, westbound.
It probably was not good a good idea to do a COD last night with the drivers frustrated from the gridlock and heavy congestion. The Critical Mass has a mind of it's own sometimes. With the energy and excitement, it just happened. Kind of like unprotected sex. You regret it the next day, but you can't do anything now...except try and prevent it in the future.
correction.....the circle of death hadn't started yet. That portion above is the very beginning of a 3 minute video with the COD on the remainder of it.
Your right barleye. I wasn't there to see the truck. I heard the story at Pan Pacific Park. So the version I got was backwards. It happened before the COD. Not after.
Yes. To further confirm what everyone else is saying, - the "truck incident" was well BEFORE the Circle Of Death. It had not started. Only about 10-20 bicycles had gone through the intersection when the truck charged into the line. Not ONE bike was doing the Circle Of Death yet. The truck was NOT impeded or held up for even an extra second by any bicycles. The light changed, and he immediately gunned into the line of bikes.
After I chased the truck up Highland and returned to the Hollywood intersection, that's when I saw the Circle happening.
Circles Of Death are fun, but they do seem quite detrimental to encouraging a positive and supportive attitude among motorists. Should motorists lighten up and appreciate the notion of people having a spontaneous good time? Yes! Absolutely! However, it's more likely that they will simply curse, call the police on their cellphones, and raise the blood pressure in their out-of-shape asses.
First of all I would like to voice an approval for the Circle Of Death. I love doing it with the CM ride and it one of the things that define the CM. People will never get the COD much like they'll never get CM. You just accept their decision and move on. Yeah you can say it stops traffic for less then a minute and it may piss some drivers off. I saw one driver at the first car that was cheering us on! It can also be argued that mass of bikes slows down drivers for FAR more time, and where's the outrage in that? And yes it can be argued that cars slow down stop cars. And hey, it beats causing property damage, yeah?
I had a good view of what went down at the intersection cause I was helping cork the traffic going Eastbound on Hollywood. I didn't see Mikey's incident that well, but I did see lbRida's incident quite well. For reasons I don't know, lbRida was trying to stop this truck AFTER it was going through the intersection. When a vehicle is crossing an intersection, it has to go through two crosswalks. lbRida was trying to cork this guy at the SECOND crosswalk. Why, I'm not sure. What that would have meant was this truck stuck in the middle of the intersection. And like the others, I didn't see any markings on this truck at all. I thought it was some Hollywood shooting crews truck since very few of those have any marking on them either.
So is anyone filing a report or just venting in the thread? I wasn't there when this happened and I don't feel like lying to Die Polizei by filing a fraudulent complaint.
I was not among the group that the truck drove into. I was directly behind them and witnessed the whole thing. I sent the DMV report. I'm sure it won't make any difference and won't do a bit of good and won't change anything at all. But on principal, I felt it should be done.
I've seen plenty of jackass drivers on almost EVERY ride. People cut us off and drive around us all the time. I just ignore them. Let them be angry and venomous little jerkwads. Who cares? But, that was the first time I ever saw anyone gun their engine and deliberately charge INTO a line of moving bikes. That is the distinction here. That's why I felt taking action to get him busted is important - even knowing those actions are futile. Again, I simply figured it was essential to make the effort on principal.
The whole reason I began this thread was merely to provide those DMV links to encourage any other witnesses to send in the report too. If anyone does, cool. If not, that's fine too.
Just remember to be careful out there and continue to look out for each other. It's like that line in that one movie - "It's not a matter of knowing your friends have got your back. It's knowing you have theirs."
Hi All. I changed the title of this thread to be a bit more accurate exchanging the word Ridazz for "Critical Massers".... PLEASE use utmost care taken to separate Critical Mass from Midnight Ridazz as much as possible. Things like the Circle of Death and the tendency or even encouragement of being antagonistic toward traffic etc are what make Critical Mass completely distinct from Midnight Ridazz and I'd hate for people to get these two ride concepts -both having their own merits and faults- confused.
sure, a lot of the same people ride on both rides this is true, but again two very different attitudes and concepts are being encouraged.
personally I dont want to see everything positive that Midnight Ridazz has done for friendly relations and the growth of LA bicycle culture to get tangled with what CM does which I feel is negative and stagnant at best. that means that I think CM does not serve to grow the constituency nor has it proven to do so in the past. said it before will say it again. I dont believe that the general net value of CM is a plus for bicycle advocacy or for bicycle culture SPECIFICALLY in Los Angeles -(other cities may report different results). Personally I will likely continue to avoid riding on critical mass rides.
Thanks, Roadblock. You're absolutely right. I agree with you 1000% on everything you said. I should have made the distinction in the thread title myself. Sorry I didn't. Thanks for changing it and making the clarification.
RB -
"even encouragement of being antagonistic toward traffic etc are what make Critical Mass completely distinct from Midnight Ridazz"
Me -
Do you have any info of this ever happening? Can you give any details on this?
RB -
"that means that I think CM does not serve to grow the constituency nor has it proven to do so in the past."
Me -
What constituency are you referring to?
All the rest is subjective. It seems you have made quite a few judgments on ride I've never seen you on. How and where did you get all your info to base your opinion on, if you don't mind me asking?
Short of the circle of death, which I agree is counter productive to everything that is bicycle, LACM is no different than MR. In fact, LACM is more inclusive in that it is a social/group ride that I would consider a 'gateway' ride. I see more kids, moms, first timers on LACM than MR. I also, later, see these riders go on to become Ridazz.
I do not believe, nor have I seen evidence to suggest, that LACM fosters hostility towards cars or motorists. Bad judgement on a few people's part is not a trait exclusive to LACM, MR has had its share of similar threads. There is certainly a 'take back the road' vibe, but when all is said and done LACM gives up the lane for passing cars, is generally pleasant to pleasant motorists and is a very positive ride with good energy.
@ Roadblock
(I appreciate that you're trying to keep the MR image as clean as possible; I know that you play a different role as both rider, poster AND mod, cheers to that, it can't be easy)
I think those are some unfair judgements and irrational conclusions you came up with. I too cringe when I think of people trying to solve their road conflicts by upending their bikes on people's car hoods, but I don't get on the message board and bash the entire ride; instead I go to the rides and try to be a positive influence. Come ride LACM next month, it's rad.
haven't read the whole thread however I would like to add to it.
Many of us ride bicycles, motorcycles and cars or vehicles of some sort. I believe and hope that when driving a car I am more aware and allowing of bicycles and indeed motorcycles.
HOWEVER
Although I think it is important, fun and good for the enviornment of Los Angeles to spread the bicycle culture, I don't think it is furthered by confrontaions with cars or the police.
If I was driving along a 2 or 3 lane road and came across many or indeed hundreds of cyclists who where fairly orderly and sharing of the road I think I would be more inclined to appreciate what these cyclists where doing. Hmm maybe I'd want to join in the fun!!
This is not about US and THEM. We won't win any wars by shoving it down others throats, God knows we've found that out overseas!
How about a huge ride where we try to maintain one lane, stop at llights and SHARE yes SHARE the roads and not be so inebriated that we are a danger not only to ourselves but cars and other cyclists!!! We'll win more people over than the alternative. I've witnessed what that accomplishes - NOT A LOT.
Maybe everyone should take a Freudian approach to the issue.
The best thing for bicycle advocacy in LA is getting more hot women riding bicycles and more obese type 2 women sitting in suv's.
The early Ridazz seemed to bring out the fine ladies. Nowadays both MR and CM are just giant sausage fests. Alll this skidding and aggressive protesting just alienates women from our common cause.
The truck nearly ran over the riders because they were attempting to cork an intersection at a red light. They were not engaged in a circle of death.
The Midnight Ridazz and LA Critical Mass regularly cork intersections and run red lights during their rides.
So therein lies the problem. Is corking intersections and running red lights causing aggravation between the drivers and CM riders as well as Ridazz?
Here is an example of mistaken identity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg5FsEcJ3YI
This guy was stuck in traffic on Beverly and Vermont, August 10th, 2007 at 10:30pm. He shot a grainy video from his car, showing traffic being corked by bicycle riders. He said they were stuck there for 10 minutes. He thought it was Critical Mass...but instead it was the Midnight Ridazz Clown Ride.
So it seems everyone is blaming Critical Mass for all the problems with bicyclists simply because a large group of bike riders automatically is labeled "Critical Mass."
We need to decide whether these bike rides will adhere to the laws, ie stop at red lights, stay in the right lane, etc. Or are we going to only require one or two high profile rides to obey the laws? There has to be some consistency and fair play.
to someone in a car, a few hundred cyclists in the road is still just a few hundred cyclists in the road so it desn't matter what they are called. i've been on CM rides and passerby's have asked if this is Midnight Ridazz and i've been on MR rides and heard people ask if this is Critical Mass. it's all the same shit to them... just a bunch of losers getting in their way.
Here are some things that generally can make CM (or any mass ride- I see no reason to differentiate) go more smoothly:
1. When a light is about to turn red (either countdown or blinking hand) it's best for the front group to slow down and get caught at the light. Everyone re-groups and gets through the light quicker when it turns green. This past CM the front group would actually speed up to make a light which makes corking harder and strings out the ride.
2. Stop at red lights when turning right. So often people in the front blast around the corners without a cork and leave those behind them to deal with the cars they just cut off.
3. Turn often. Then the motorists who are 'stuck' behind will be different on each road.
4. Sometimes taking all the lanes is just inevitable due to the number of riders, pace, etc. Probably best to leave one lane open when: going uphill or if there are three lanes of traffic.
This is only my experience. Lots can be added or taken away.
Apparently LACM and Hollywood Ridazz wasn't the only rides on Friday night to experience problems with law enforcement.
Here is a the Honolulu Critical Mass video from Friday night. They got in deep trouble too.
It seems that Waikiki was their destination, the cash cow for their city, and the police were out to stop them. I think we can see some parallels between what happened to LACM and the Ridazz in Hollywood on Friday night and what happened to these guys in Hawaii.
really it all comes down to being courteous on the road and asking yourself if what you are doing is courteous to others that share the road....
COD=absolutely not courteous and it will never be viewed as anything other than a purposeful attempt to cause traffic. you wont get any sympathy for it from cops and you will very very rarely get it from car drivers waiting for it to end. quintuple-y so during rush hour.
riding in large groups of more than 200 (one lights worth) = not courteous but you can also blunt the rudeness of an extra large ride by being uber inclusive and inviting to all people. wave at cars rather than yell or antagonize them as was always the tradition with MR. which is why MR grew this whole party scene to begin with and CM had remained small and stagnant until recent years. drivers saw the Ridazz fun and came on out because when they saw us they were in party mode not traffic mode. they saw themselves amongst us. they didnt see us as the opposition.
an argument you will never never never win regardless is that group rides have a right to run reds. that is a PRIVILEDGE that some cops have instructed us to do and others have forbidden. it's always going to be THEIR call on the spot and it will depend soley on whether the cop feels like it. and really there is nothing wrong with that. we can lobby them with love or we can lobby them with hate (guess which works better). but the always always always default is that no, you can not expect to run reds to stay together. consider: if bicycles are to be treated as vehicles on the road then you might as well ask if cars and other vehicles have the right to "group up" and run reds together. they dont, unless they have a funeral permit or parade permit. I dont think anyone wants to get into asking for a permit.
in the end it's all about the attitude and understanding that we specifically DON'T have the right to break traffic laws and that when we do we do it with utmost love and courtesy. again, there is no possible way that the COD is helping the cause and no possible way that yelling at drivers to abandon their SUV's or taking up the left lane is going to foster good relations with said drivers. the only answer is to love them out of their cars. love them out with fun.
the biggest issue I see with CM is the time of day it is held. that is actually the number one factor IMHO. clogging up traffic (and yelling at cars / COD) at 6:30 when people are cranky and dieing to get home is percieved as insanely RUDE. on the other hand clogging up traffic on a friday night at 10pm+ when people are out cruising and partying is less so rude (also depending on the attitude of the riders) than it is a specatacle to watch or an alternative form of entertainment to participate in. drivers are more likely to say "hey look at these people having a different kind of fun I wonder if I can join them!"
RB -
"even encouragement of being antagonistic toward traffic etc are what make Critical Mass completely distinct from Midnight Ridazz"
Me -
Do you have any info of this ever happening? Can you give any details on this?
RB -
"that means that I think CM does not serve to grow the constituency nor has it proven to do so in the past."
Me -
What constituency are you referring to?
All the rest is subjective. It seems you have made quite a few judgments on ride I've never seen you on. How and where did you get all your info to base your opinion on, if you don't mind me asking?
"Do you have any info of this ever happening? Can you give any details on this? "
the COD.
constituency equals constituency of bicycle riders. in other words the amount of people who choose to ride bicycles or are sympathetic to bicycle riders.
It's so crazy it just might work. Also, please visit the 'Vaginatesticles' thread. Your opinion of skidding and its relation to 'masculinity' or 'machismo' would be a good addition to the current dialogue.
'really it all comes down to being courteous on the road and asking yourself if what you are doing is courteous to others that share the road.... ' -rb-
@ Roadblock
Triple werd, thunder terd.
The Polite Ride - Make it every ride.
For a long time I avoided critical mass until I happened upon it.
Actually before I happened upon it I came to terms with the fact that I was judging CM based on the media telling of CM and since CM is who shows up I was looking forward to doing CM and experincing it first hand when I found it by accident one day after a long brutal ride back from the west side (the bike route sign on olympic doesn't mean shit on friday at 5).
Historically CM was much more like Ridazz in spirt. I think that accounts for its rapid growth in SF and around the world. I think however the media portrayal of CM has actually turned it into what it is. ie. by the media focusing on conflict with cars is has attracted some people who enjoy conflicts with cars. With a higher percentage of people (relative to other rides) that show up, empowered by the mass, ready to give attitude to drivers, or cause some shit.
This has been my experience on a few of the CM rides I have attended. Not a huge difference, and maybe also affected by the fact that the ride itself will cause more annoyance at 6pm than at 10 pm. But yeah, I did hear more people being confrontational with drivers. And while every LA CM I have ever done (very few) seems to feature somebody [glances over to USER1] calling for a COD. I have never ever heard it suggested, let alone accepted, at any MR ride.
Its obvious that many of us take the approach of getting "more bees with honey" which is why, in LA MR simply dwarfs CM, even though there is quite a bit of overlap.
I think the large MR presence in CM also explains why LACM is more apt to spend an hour throwing back beers in PP park than standing in an intersection holding up their bikes.
So how do you arrive at the conclusion that CMers are being antagonistic toward traffic and MRers are not? How do you arrive at the conclusion that this behavior is encouraged in one camp and not the other? How do you arrive at the conclusion that CM is negative and stagnant at best? How do you arrive at the conclusion that CM does not grow a constituency of riders nor has it proven to do so in the past? How do you arrive at the belief that the general net value of CM is a negative for bicycle advocacy or for bicycle culture? How do you arrive at the conclusion that CM is about hate and MR is about love?
All these differences are attributed to one simple act? The COD??????
You are going to completely ignore a strung out group of 600+ ridazz as being less disruptive than a COD that takes less than a minute to complete? Corking traffic for this 600+ ridazz is not purposeful? How does this differ from and is any better than doing a COD with 100 ridazz?
How can you make the assumption that CM antagonizes the drivers and MR ridazz give a friendly wave? Doesn't that sound comedic to you? Do you really think drivers know the difference between MR ridazz and CM ridazz? You yourself said that often these are the same ridazz. So you really think these drivers, with an exception of maybe one or two drivers, know the difference?
You said, "again, there is no possible way that the COD is helping the cause and no possible way that yelling at drivers to abandon their SUV's or taking up the left lane is going to foster good relations with said drivers." So are you saying this yelling doesn't happen on MR rides?
You mentioned that time of day has a big effect on the preception of the drivers and ridazz on the road. We've never left at 6:30 in all the time we've started at Wilshire & Western. We've always left somewhere around 7:30, sometimes later. But you wouldn't know that. Regardless, we are entitled to legally be on the road anytime of the day. CM is out there in part to show drivers that there is a better way. One affective way of doing that is to show how one can get around the city at rush hour. Personally I like the 7:30 start time. It gets more ridazz out.
In conclusion I really feel you are making quite a number of generalized statements that doesn't represent CM or MR ridazz accurately. In all your statements, you can find ridazz doing these things in each other's camp. For someone that has never been on a LACM ride, you are sounding like some of the drivers we always hear that complain about street ridazz.
What I read out of the argument is that 100 riders doing COD is good and 600 ridazz going through an intersection is bad. Does this mean that for future MR rides, we stop at 100 ridazz so when ridazz #101 shows up, they need to go home because that's too many peeps going through an intersection? I hope not because I really have fun on the rides.
Chances are.. some if not all of the people who are needlessly being antagonistic to drivers are not reading the MR threads. They may not even be aware that a lot of riders disagree with their response to an admittedly aggravating set of circumstances.
Maybe the best course of action is for the veteran riders to be more vocal during rides when they see things that can be easily remedied.
Such as politely asking riders who constantly pass far left of the center divider to move right and take.. at the most 1 1/2 lanes of traffic so that cars, many of which are very patient and considerate... can escape our route just long enough to get onto another street.
You can be vocal without being a jerk. No-one wants to be the hall monitor, however a polite nudge as to the proper etiquette when riding in congested areas will go a long way to ensure the cops don't start writing superfluous tickets to teach us a lesson.
Lets set an example for all the drivers out there that Bicycle traffic is something that can be dealt with politely and effieciently.
Be vocal and be nice.... Lets adapt and learn to ride in high traffic areas .
Of course this does not apply to that truck driver who purposely drove through riders at LACM the other night. He was way out of line and should be found and prosecuted.
It all comes down to using common sense and being polite.
People are going to do what they want to do. So there's no use arguing about it. It doesn't mean we cant try to encourage the behavior of the group. It doesn't mean we are being dictatorial, we're just leading by example.
Hopefully we can promote an attitude of sharing the road, rather Us Vs. Them. It's all up to the group as to what happens. To me, reacting to a drivers hostility with equal hostility ends up usually bad.
It may feel cheesy to some, but saying "Thank you for waiting" and "We're almost through" makes a big difference for some drivers.
If everybody continues to look out for each other and leave no Rida behind, then Ride on!
user1 I cant remember the last time we even had "600+ ridazz" on a ride. I think the most I've seen lately is about 3-400.... but yes I attribitute the main differences to:
1 The COD. there's no reason for it other than selfish and it specifically makes already beleaguered drivers irate.
2 time of day held. rush hour in LA, contrary to popular belief does not actually end at 7pm it ends around 8/8:30 pm most of the time but sometimes even 9-p-fucking-m and I wish the MTA would acknowledge as much when planning their subway schedule.
3 verbally being antagonistic towards drivers or verbal abuse towards drivers. I've seen it for myself on both MR and CM. MR specifically discourages that behaviour whereas I have not seen an official policy for CM that does same.
4 CM did not start the bicycle revolution / party ride phenomenon in LA. MR did in fact do this. there is no dispute about that. CM had been around for YEARS and did nothing to grow the constiuency outside of the at most 50 or so riders that participated on a regular basis.
5 refer to trickmilla's post a few replies back. he pretty much articulated everything perfectly. not much more I can offer you buddy.
theres also a thing on midnight ridazz called a spoke card, a route slip, or a mutually agreed destination. So, even if the group gets split up by red lights, they can re-converge at the next break point or end destination.
In regular sized MR groups - corking at intersections helps.
In the summer, when we get to the over 1000 Ridazz numbers, it's a challenge to stay all together. We just try our best and govern ourselves as to when to break it off and let the traffic go through. Unless you really don't give a shit, and the drivers can tell if you don't.
Be Vocal - O.Y.M. "Open yer Mouf!" - Communicate with other Ridazz and drivers. Expect there to be antagonized drivers and deal with them gracefully. (Slamming Bikes on hoods doesn't help in the long run). But, I understand when there are exceptions... I'm just trying to say is help everybody else think about what they are doing.
COD seems like a lot of fun, but you have to expect there will be some who get pissed off easily, and there can be bad outcomes. I've almost been run down in these situations and it made me change my mind on COD. It works in San Diego, or at least where I first experienced it, but some LA drivers are "ready to pop"...
third party word ..... on bikes or in cars when people behave like jackasses and that is how they will appear to others.
if we the cyclists are always right does that make us self-righteous? or just pompous and arrogant?
just human
R3
Everything trickmilla stated above is far more accurate than what you had portrayed when comparing the two. I attribute his accurate observation to the fact that he's actually been on some of the LACM rides. I have no problems with his comparison. The only thing I find is inaccurate is that MR has not done CODs before. I don't remember which one it was but it has been done. Hell it was even done last Friday as I've already pointed out.
A few things that both of you have failed to point out and is appealing to me is that there's no leaders, there's no planned route, and everyone is considered equal. All the CM rides have a large unknown factor that I find appealing too. BTW, there has been LACM rides with more than 100 ridazz even before it started meeting at Wilshire and Western. And yes it was a party ride, and not some confrontational happening between bikes and cars as you like to portray.
I know you weren't asking my opinion. But I support critical mass. I am glad that LA has been growing recently in regards to this ride.
Roadblock recognizes differences about the style of Critical Mass vs. that of Midnight Ridazz, and I think he doesn't want to get that mixed with the style of what he upholds Ridazz to represent.
The prime difference in CM is Politics, Protest, and Confrontation (starts during rush hour). Otherwise, they are BIKE RIDES, no doubt.
I am not saying that CM is bad. It just has some differences.
I don't have a problem with everything you are saying Borfo. I just had a problem when he states the LACM ride is, antagonistic toward traffic, yeah there's a small element of it on the ride. Just like there's a small element of this on some of the MR rides. I have a problem when he saids it's negative and stagnant, that the ride is filled with hate, and the ride is filled with ridazz yelling at motorist. He makes all of these characterizations when he's never been on a LACM. At least not ones that I've been on. Both you and trickmilla have been far more accurate that he has been. Certainly you see what I'm referring to, don't you?
Roadblocks comments in bold - excerpted from post above.
user1 I cant remember the last time we even had "600+ ridazz" on a ride.
Halloween Ride was 600
1 The COD. there's no reason for it other than selfish and it specifically makes already beleaguered drivers irate.
How many things does MR do in the name of FUN or spectacle which antagonize people. I've been in a few CODs and I don't remember people rejoicing in ecstasy over selfishness and making people irate.
You may feel that these are outcomes from a COD, but let's have basic respect for rider intent. In this town the people that do CM are the same people that do MR, and yet for some reason you're implicitly assuming ill intent when they participate in CM?
3 verbally being antagonistic towards drivers or verbal abuse towards drivers. I've seen it for myself on both MR and CM. MR specifically discourages that behaviour whereas I have not seen an official policy for CM that does same.
What the fuck? CM doesn't have official policies because it's not an organization. This is just semantic nonsense. The fact is MR doesn't have official policy either. I mean you could say that on the website and call that "Official MR Policy" but that does not make it so. MR also says to obey all the rules of the road, but does WP or any other MR ride even attempt to do that.
4 CM did not start the bicycle revolution / party ride phenomenon in LA. MR did in fact do this. there is no dispute about that. CM had been around for YEARS and did nothing to grow the constiuency outside of the at most 50 or so riders that participated on a regular basis.
LACM did start the bike revolution in LA. BikeBoom, CICLE, and LACBC all were aided and partly emerged from the 2000 era LACM and the community it created. And those orgs helped to push the bike revolution forward, until the Kitchen finally provided the kernel around which MR initially formed.
Do you remember when there was no MR.com, and the ride was announced on paper fliers, and it's biggest presence on the internet was through BikeBoom.
MR is huge, it pushed the revolution forward a long way, but you do a disservice to MR when you slough over the details of how it came about.
Of course there are stated policies for midnight ridazz. The first of which is "no rider left behind"
The stated policy for cm is, "there is no leader" and the implied policy is "start after work during rush hour"
I'm not totally dissing CM but I am saying that in this town "specifically" cm does a disservice in a few ways. One of which is the cod. which I'm guessing because I said its bad will inspire it to occur more judging by allan's obsession. The other is once again, the start time. The final issue is perhaps as trickmilla said it best. That because of negative media portrayal it attracted some angry types. But having ridden on midnight ridazz since day one, I'm telling you the policy has always been love and it wasn't till the rides got to be 150 200 deep, that some bad apples started to show.
I'm not discrediting any of the other organizations you mention alex. But midnight ridazz is what got people excited about riding bikes because it got the formula right. Party, love have fun, that's why it grew. Cm had years and years to do the same and obviously it wasn't doing the job otherwise we would be promoting cm style rides.
Lastly just because a cod may have happened on an mr ride doesn't mean its condoned. A lot of bad shit has happened on mr rides. People throwing trash, people throwing bikes on hoods, fights guns being pulled cops swarming with cruisers and helicoptors. So? Does that mean we can't learn from our mistakes?
Keep hanging on to the cod and pretend like it doesn't come off as rude to drivers. Its not what mr is.
The bike kitchen hs done tons for the bike community but there was a time when it was being fueled by mr before it was even an official location and there was definitely a time when there was intentional seperation from MR. I'm glad its all solved and all love. Now lets get back to loving people out of there cars instead of being so arrogantly rude to them. More love = more fun = more people on bikes.
Btw wp is not an mr ride neither is cm. They are promoted on mr but are distinct from mr policies. Like I said before, not just any ride can be an mr ride. I'll use the same example, if a group of nazi skinheads decided to make a ride about bashing gays they could not call that shit midnight ridazz and their ride in fact would get deleted.
There are specific policies to midnight ridazz. Having mostly to do with peaceful coexistance with cars, the neighborhoods, no rida left behind, spoke cards, themes and love. VERY distinct from CM.
Really my only issues are the start time and the cod. I'm probably buying in to the hype about the antagonism to car drivers, though the opne cm in LA I went on there was quite a bit of heckling and the cod was where I stayed on the side and saw how pissed many drivers got.... its not a net plus for the bicycle community and that is my belief.... regardless of intent or how fun it is, it is seen as rude and antagonistic by drivers.
Yeah Harry, English is a tough language. I still haven't mastered it completely myself and I have been using it all my life.
Origin of Hear Hear Hear hear is an expression that originated as hear ye, or hear him, usually repeated. This imperative was used to call attention to a speaker's words, and naturally developed the sense of a broad expression of favour. This is how it is still used today, although one can always vary one's tone to express different sentiments; the Oxford English Dictionary noted around the turn of the century that the phrase is now the regular form of cheering in the House of Commons, and expresses, according to intonation, admiration, acquiescence, indignation, derision, etc.
As a parliamentary cheer, hear him, hear him! is first recorded in the late 17th century and continued into the 19th; the reduction to hear! or hear, hear! occurred by the late 18th century. However, the use of the verb hear as an imperative meaning listen! is older: a notable example is the parliamentary-sounding Then cried a wise woman out of the city, Hear, hear (2 Samuel 20, verse 16) in the King James Bible, first published in 1611.
Aside from the interjection, a number of other grammatical forms are found, such as a hear, hear (originally, of course, a hear him or hear ye), meaning 'a cheer'; to hear-hear, meaning 'to shout "hear, hear!"'; and hear-hearer, meaning 'a person who shouts "hear, hear!"'.
btw Alex where is your timeline coming from any way? 2000?? C.I.C.L.E. started up around summer of 06 and bike boom first went online feb 05. from what I know the bike kitchen was literally a kitchen at the eco village until they got the momentum (from so much new interest in bicycle riding) in early 05 to get their location on Heliotrope... I and many many others would not have heard of the bike kitchen were it not for MR. dont get me wrong all these organizations are awesome and helped grow the movement but lets get the facts straight. and the LABC? didnt you just write a blog about how much bicycle advocy orgs are ineffectual and that party rides are what really get people out on the road? jeepers creepers bud.
there were never any physical flyers made for Midnight Ridazz it was all word of mouth and email lists maintained by Skull and MaBell and the guiding principals and policy was love and respect for each other, cars, and neighborhoods and that is POLICY. so what you and allen are missing in my statements is that the formula that MR came up with had nothing to do with the formula of CM and was never inspired by it, MR had nothing to do with protest and had everything to do with FUN and THAT is why the format became popular and increased the constituency of bicycle riders here in LA. actually drawing people out of their cars with fun and love rather than scolding them or trying to shame them as CM may or may not do. I'm typical convert I used to drive up sunset to the start point. about 3 miles. ha.
also, to answer trickmill about the negative media coverage. maybe there is something to be said for that. for some reason the media coverage of MR that I've seen has been very positive andI have a good feeling of why. I dont doubt that the media exaggerates the negative aspect of CM but then again there is something to be said about how each ride is perceived by the media. the media of course being the average unenlightend people who should be riding bikes themselves.
Ok, you're wrong on CICLE. CICLE was definitely around in October 2004 when I first started riding in LA, but it was totally different. Then they didn't update their website for a long time, until Early 2006. So I guess what you're calling CICLE is the "revamped" CICLE. Go check the old internet archives if you don't believe me.
Ok - just checked it out at the WayBack Machine. CICLE was around as early as April 19th, 2003.
You are right about BikeBoom. The important point is that Lars was supporting the multiple ride culture more than a year before MR.com existed. Sure, MR was pushing the party edge harder, but BikeBoom was supporting the idea that there should be many rides, and at the time that was a revolutionary idea.
Kitchen moved into the storefront in January or February 05. But they were force from the EcoVillage for years before that. I built my first high functioning ten speed in the EcoVillage Bike Kitchen in 05, so they at least had the impact of bringing me further in, which I think probably counts for something.
LACBC is an old old org (by bike standards.) LACBC was founded in 1998. It came out of LACM partly and Ron Milam was the main organizer at first. Jimmy Lizama was reportedly also part of that charter group. Anyhow, I seem to recall hearing that their first major campaign was to get a bike lane put on Sunset in Silverlake. You guys know if there is a bike lane there? Right - it has ALWAYS been there to most of us . . . which just gives you a feeling for how old it was.
They actually used LACM to do some of the lobbying for that bike lane. That, and a few discussions I've had with people from that time indicates to me that they were a much more militant/radical and effective org at that time. So I kind of dig what I've heard about old skool LACBC.
I don't really like new school LACBC, as you know. That was not the main focus of that article though. The main focus was on Bike Activists using a richer array of tactics, partly derived from the skills of ride organizers and bike repair collective volunteers. The LACBC bit was more an example and a foil.
MIDNIGHTRIDAZZ.COM vs CRITICAL MASSES (ALL OF THEM)
Sunday morning race to church to repent for their respective bicycle sins. One hail mary per Circle of Death in their history. Winner gets into bicycle heaven.
ALEX THOMPSON vs ROADBLOCK
Not a race of Length, but of Height. Tallest time wins. Hair doesn't count towards height, but Sharecut is automatic win (for Roadblock only).
BICYCLE KITCHEN vs PIONEER CHICKEN
Nothing says "Bike Scene" like a grease. Chain grease on shirt vs. lard(?) grease on paper-towel. Start with an official weigh-in. Most gross net additional weight loses.
Well now you say height. Does that mean I can ride up a hill and if my head is higher I win? I could get behind this race. Start at USC and you have 30 minutes to get as high as possible. I think I would get physically higher, but RB my just straight up get high . . . hmmm, that might be easier than riding up hill. Race to Highest, the "you can't overdose on THC" ride.
There is a strong foundation that MR is built upon, which includes everything Alex mentions above. When MR started it was twice a month, the 2nd/4th Friday; people often went from CM to MR (630 and 930 start times, respectively). At the time MR was opposing the more militant line of CM and was focusing on fun. And indeed the rides are.
BikeSummer came along in 2005 and proposed the idea of anyone organizing rides under one banner, which is what this version MR, the one most of you are familiar with, is based on. Anyway, no one wants a history lesson, but it is important to understand the background. When MR got huge many people (most?) drove to the star t(it was hilarious to watch the scramble for parking) and the feel of the ride, obviously, was different.
So it comes down to this: Which rides are best at convincing people to replace car trips with bike trips? The easy answer is 'variety'. The harder answer is probably beyond what would be useful to discuss on the interweb.
Dude I never ever was trying to compare mr.com to anything. I'm talking about ride formats.
Mr.com simply moved forward with the idea of breaking up a very fun but also very rude 1500 ridazz into smaller localized groups. You see? When things became antagonistic towards others that share the road we moved to change it. So I'm advocating that things like timing and attitude and the cod be changed to adjust for a better relationship with the drivers of cars in this city. Lets keep loving them out of cars and have some introspection about how the public perceives this bicycle riding frenzy. Lets keep it moving.
As far as replacing car trips with bike trips, that should be heavily emphasized for those within 20 miles of the epicenter.
Those of us that live on the outer-fringe zones should probably think up carpools or other group-travel arrangements to kill the miles of nothingness that separates MR hotbeds, and four-wheeled strongholds.
I'm not trying to settle some score about who was the most important. I just want the facts straight, know what I mean.
Like Bike Punk said, I think it's very important to remember all the different things that led to the current culture. I think most people on this site have no idea about the back story at all. So this is like an educational moment. The old heads argue about what's what and we all learn something.
Bike punk was right on the money IMHO stating that mr was about fun and cm was more "militant" and that hell yes it was funny to see people scrambling for parking in the early days of mr. Because..... a great lot of the early participants we people who were drivers I being one of them - who decided to join in the FUN because they felt comfortable doing so. Why?? Because we never ever ever advocated to be rude to drivers or antagonize them or ridicule them.... we waved at them and invited them to join us. This is EXACTLY the revolution I'm talking about that mr started plain and simple. Now I know I'm not alone... I'm a damn near completely converted from driving to public transportation and cycling as my mode of getting around. All because I felt comfortable as a driver, in the very beginning, to join in. I actually hate my car. Srysly. I get tix and gas and traffic.
Now ask yourself which format is going to keep on converting? Ask yourself which attitude is going to invite drivers to try it and maybe even possibly convert...... put yourself at the intersection at the time of day and ask yourself what a driver is thinking when there is a cod..... its all very important to the bicycle movement in los angeles flourishing or capping off at an us vs them attitude.... we can't covert all... but will will attract more by being the sexy honey bees that we are!
I'm on the fence about the Circle of Death, but I'll tell you one thing: All of the tourists whooping and hollering and snapping photos are pretty stoked on it. The times I've had flyers (general bike stuff, not CM specific) I was mobbed.
Since Alex called me an 'Old-head' I have a trivia question:
How and why did the Circle of Death start? Can anyone date it?
Last year a bunch of us went to San Diego for the Electric Warriors Ride. They introduced a bunch of us to circle of death. It then carried on to a certain ride and in a certain location in LA. (I'm not saying). And it just caught on because it is so obnoxious and exciting, but it's also dumb. And thats the whole story.
I noticed it was also passed onto San Francisco for their anniversary CM by certain LA individuals
It's not a unrepeatable idea. I suspect that people have been doing CODs since the early days of CM, if not before. I am sure they;ve done them in SF, I vaguely remember reading something about such somewhere.
Here is a draft of the Wikipedia entry....any additions?
Circle of Death abbrev COD: A practice whereas a large number of bicyclists commandeer an intersection and ride in a circle, blocking traffic in all directions. Especially utilized by the Los Angeles Critical Mass bicycle activists at the busy Hollywood Blvd and Highland Ave intersection.
History : The true origin of the Circle of Death is unknown. Though it was purportedly first witnessed in San Diego.
Political/Social Statement: There are many different reasons given for the Circle of Death. To stop traffic in honor of the bicyclists who have been killed over the years by cars, or to just give an in-your-face flip off to the polluting cars and the arrogant drivers.
Controversy: There are some in the bicycle community who view the Circle of Death with disdain and contempt. An act that only aggravates and infuriates an already frustrated driving public. Supporters of the COD contend that cars always block intersections anyway, during gridlock, etc, and that bicycle rides often cork intersections to run red lights and keep the group together and cohesive.
Occult: There is a small group that believes the Circle of Death is part of a Satanic Cult or the Occult. Though few adherents to this notion can be located.
Echoing what Bike Punk said, I really don't think MR has been the same since a ride a few years back when the group I was riding with to the ride was buzzed by some idiots in a Chevy Avalanche along Sunset.
When we got to the start and saw these same idiots hoisting their bikes out of the truck bed, we were too disappointed to even laugh about it.
In 2004 LACM was heading down Hollywood Blvd. It reached Highland and the road was closed to through traffic because of the Academy Awards. LACM thought it could ride through, but the Po Po said no no. In the time it took for this to be figured out people rode in circles awaiting direction. It was fun.
The following month an unknown 'Masser' said, 'Remember when we did that circle thing? It sure was fun. Let's do it again even though the road is not closed.'
History: According to some sources, in 2004 a Los Angeles Critical Mass bicycle group approached the busy Hollywood Blvd. and Highland Ave intersection. Due to the impeding Academy Awards show at the Kodak Theater, Hollywood Blvd was closed to traffic. As members of the bicycle group attempted to negotiate a passage through the closed road with local police, the remaining bicyclists circled the intersection awaiting permission. They were eventually denied passage. The circling of the intersection has now become a time-honored tradition.
I like this story, whether it is the true origin of the Circle of Death or not, it sounds good.
Man if you guys are going to use that as the orgins of the COD, at least make it sound better than this! Say some UFO came down and the next thing we knew, we were riding around in circles and the UFO was gone.
I suggest asking the ridazz up in SF if and when they started doing there's. Here in LA it was being done and called the COD when the ride started at Sunset & Parkman. You can maybe find a reference to it happening if you look at the yahoo CM group. The yahoo CM group is a whole nother thread, so ain't even getting started down that path.
So can you tell me more about this one time you went on a LACM ride? Where and when? Where was this COD done at? You think that maybe, just maybe, the dynamics of the group has changed since you been on it once?
Joe Lipton is the moderator and basically tossed everyone off that gave a shit about the CM ride. The guy's the moderator even though he hasn't been on the ride in years. Go figure..........
suspect key reason why the LAPD keep their hands off MR rides: they shelled out many thousands of $$ to Critical Massers who were arrested detained and degraded during the DNC in 2000.
(ps: any sane person unsubscribed from the yahoo group after allen spammed it to death.)
I spent over an hour writing my reply and for whatever reason it posted as blank, I'm a little frustrated. Pardon any typos or holes in facts.
1. Why does LACM have a route.
2. Why did the route include a stop at hollywood and highland
3. It was this stop that would have cause the same havoc as the COD
4. I had alread crossed highland and pulled off to the side and turned around to see a few almost run over
5. I went to cork as hundreds watched these people almost killed. I could care less where the truck was or is.
6. CODs are great. The idea of a circle in itself, then one filled with laughing happy people, i love COD's, a lot. As far as the location, that needs a little tweaking
7. I'm 99% of the time smiling waving and thanking the people who I cork.
8. my first mr ride (pillow fight) had a COD in it. again, location.
9. Whatever time-out this site has while you're writing your forum replies sucks. .,..
Still really ticked off about my login time out. I never left my computer and was typing the whole time. Next time, I'll just ride lbcm.
Firstly, tell your stories of love, happiness, and cycling to the many who have been run -over -off and -into, while riding solo. I didn't realize MR was such a cuddle fest, next time I'll wear my cutsie happy happy love love face.
I did happen to cut this one part of what I wrote and paste it elsewhere...all that remains of my rantings.
back when the rides were put on by a tight knit group of women and there were only 25-50 ridazz it was a total lovefest. that became harder and harder to maintain as new people arrived especially when the rides averaged more than 1000. The first signs of trouble came around 100-150 ridazz... people leaving trash or using the power of the mass to have more cojones than they ever would by themselves.
for those not in the know Skull MaBell and Muff really really took a lot of care and love and put them into the experience of Midnight Ridazz rides. we all owe them a lot of love in return. It's inevitable that as more and more people attended it was not possible to coordinate such intimate experiences and eventually it became so much of a burden that they decided to step down and the solution of giving the ride to everyone - essentially franchising the ride concept to anyone who would use it for the greater good and love of bicycle culture was made. the idea was to use the website to split the unruly mass back into localized mini versions of what once was. it worked out in really cool ways and the love fest has repeated itself in new ways. look at cub camp and crank mob or tren way or cruz with us. these groups have so much good times together. it's so important to remember that love is what created this whole thing and that love is what will keep it the same fun experience. sure there are always bad apples there are always selfish people there are always the extremists who want to destroy what others built. it all may well die.... but enough people I think are hoping the love cuddlefest can weather the storm and survive for a few more years. it has really helped improve things for bicycle culture and smacks in the face of the many haters who want to tear it all down.
lets try to love all people be they drivers, walkers or riders.... draw them into our love fest and into the fun. that's what keeps things moving. the alternative is what we are living everyday, rivalries, war, jealously, fighting.... love disarms all of that. it really does.
and no, the LAPD is not keeping their hands off Ridazz because of DNC. the obviously still buzz around and ticket people. if they were weary about that then macarthur park would not have happend either. They are keeping hands off (for the most part) because of the love we show them.
"the idea was to use the website to split the unruly mass back into localized mini versions of what once was. it worked out in really cool ways and the love fest has repeated itself in new ways. look at cub camp and crank mob or tren way or cruz with us. these groups have so much good times together."
Well said, RB.
Cool thing is the fact that I tend to be loosely affiliated with all these collectives.
I gain valuable experience, knowledge and general tips on how to lead the wild bunch.
It's still in development, but this well-roundedness will pay off well up here in the desert, and when I get back over the road .
Next time, I'll even invest in a higher-powered CB, spread the word amongst the 18wheeled brethren that could use a little exercise and fresh-air nonetheless.
I'm not questioning what MR is all about or how it evolved. I'm just questioning your characterizations of LACM. You've been on the ride one time, more than 3 years ago. Things change over time, you know that.
The only things different from MR and the current LAMC is no leader, no route, CM doesn't do spoke cards, and we do the COD.
The ride leaves at 7:30. Wiki states rush hour is between 6-10am and 3-7pm. I go by what is on Wiki. Nobody is verbally antagonistic or abusive towards drivers on the CM ride. They are no different than MR and pretty much the same ridazz. There was even someone on the mic last ride asking people to leave a lane open and to be cordial to others on the road. If anything, MR has more of a problem of not leaving a lane open cause of the greater number of ridazz.
For the record, MR was influenced by the LACM ride. That's why the main and first MR ride started on the second Friday. Prefect night to start another ride and that's what you did.
In regards to when MR started. I was under the impression that you guys started advertising your rides via The Kitchen's email list. I happened to learn about the ride when a friend and I were hanging around at a art gallery down in the art district downtown. We luckily had our bikes with us, so we just joined you. I think it was the river ride. You guys came through an alley by Gary and 3rd street. The ride kind of finished at Santa Fe.
I kind of like doing the COD at Hollywood and Highland. It's my fav spot for it. A Beverly Hills spot just may steal my heart away from Hollywood though.
BTW, try opening more than one tab on your browser. Use this other tab to see if you're still logged in on MR. This should save you from losing your stuff that you typed. Just encase, as a back up, select all and copy everything before you hit post.
Santa Monica Critical Mass started their next ride with a "Circle of Death?"
How would the police stop everybody?
What law, would participants be citied for?
What would BOX tell you is the legitimate reason why you did what you did, to fight your ticket?
(don't laugh, I bet you he could come up with a legitimate defense)
"In regards to when MR started. I was under the impression that you guys started advertising your rides via The Kitchen's email list. I happened to learn about the ride when a friend and I were hanging around at a art gallery down in the art district downtown. We luckily had our bikes with us, so we just joined you. I think it was the river ride. You guys came through an alley by Gary and 3rd street. The ride kind of finished at Santa Fe. "
nah the kitchen list didnt exist at the time. Skull had her own personal list then someone along the way took over and eventually it became associated with the Bicycle Kitchen list or something. The Bicycle Kitchen eventually came to disassociate itself for legal reasons and even came to frown on Midnight Ridazz as a bunch of party people but that thankfully has been resolved. we're all one big happy fambam of bicycle lovefests
and yeah bud you know who invited you? that's right buddy that was me! I remember you and your companion. we were on the bone ride and you guys happened to be up on the ledge behind the railing by that cafe watching us. we were viewing the powell peralta skull done by a graffiti artist on the next building over. you asked what it was and I told you Midnight Ridazz join us. you were hesitant at first but I assured you we were friendly told you to hurry and grab your bike and wanted all to join. dont think I'm not knowing. I didnt think you would turn out to be the antagonistic obsessive nit picker type that you turned out to be... had I known.... ha. I would still have invited your ass.. well maybe not (kidding)... but I digress.
as for CM influencing Ridazz it just aint the case. the ride format is completely different. planned route, friendly to drivers, themed rides. it's not like CM was the first ever group ride. as your nitpickymedia entry states the LA Wheelmen (among many many other unlisted group rides before them) have been riding since 1945... but I digress. once it was decided to make Ridazz a biweekly then eventually monthly ride, yes it was scheduled on an alternate friday... regardless, this ride format prevailed in grabbing drivers and converting them to Ridazz and now Ridazz has infected CM to make it less "militant" thank god because miltant bikers is like militant straightedgers... it creates an us vs. them mentality. the proof is in the pudding. FUN is better than vinegar.
keep on doing the COD and rolling out during rush hour... it wont help the cause... but some people just cant see the big picture. that's what make life interesting I guess.
Dude we weren't hesitant, we were just wondering what we wanted to do. We were going to some other galleries and we both decided on joining you guys. Man was that a mistake huh? LOL If I or even my buddy would have know you were such a CM hater, we would have told you we both have flats! hahahaha
And I'm sure we can find organized rides even before 1945. It's not like bikes were discovered in 1944 after all.
You have got to stop saying that the Kitchen didn't exist before MR. It's not just wrong, it's really wrong, and it's going to piss some people off. It was founded in 2002, so says
"You have got to stop saying that the Kitchen didn't exist before MR. It's not just wrong, it's really wrong, and it's going to piss some people off. It was founded in 2002, so says "
huh? I acknowledged as much go back and read about 500 posts ago. I know it started in the eco village before mr. what I said was that the growing interest in cycling generated in large part by mr made it possible for the kitchen to be established where it is today.
When has LACM ever been militant? Or super militant? Back when it started at 5th/Flower and was mostly messengers? Nah, actually then it was super chill cause people had been dealing with asshole drivers all day.
Sometimes you get the Type-A, usually male, confrontational asshole. It happens on both rides. Does it statistically happen more often on CM? That's a hard judgement to make. I would say the P-value is definitely not less than .05.
Actually there have been spoke cards at LACM for the past three months...a limited supply but they were there.
and there has been routes, (which totally blows the ride) advocated by some around here.
I want Critical Mass back like it once was. You go to the front and lead it. It was so much fun that way.
No, you want to go west on Wilshire (because the road is so nice) and right at Rossmore, and stop at Boogies, because they are not a chain store, and appreciate our business. So spontaneous!
BOOO f----g BOOOO!
please.....let have a spontaneous ride, and go down roads we never gone down before. See parts of the city we don't ride on regularly, that was the fun and beauty of CM (for me).
WHAT????? WTF???? What's with the routes? I saw that there was a posted suggested route, but where's the fun in that? Let's keep the ride spontaneous, yeah? You'll be surprised how fun that can be.
The liquor store stop was at the start of the ride, so it didn't cramp the style this ride is suppose to have. Plus it was agreed to by a few.
The ride deviated from the proposed posted route, so there was some spontaneity in the route. The Bogies Liquor stop replaces the old 7-11 stop that LACM used to make. The group feels more comfortable patronizing an independently-run business instead of a franchise corporate operation.
There are other rides (Sins and Sprockets for example) that go through downtown, East LA, Highland Park, etc. Few rides that scour the Central LA, Hollywood, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills area.
Allen and a few others wanted to go through Beverly Hills last Friday, but other riders wanted to join up with the Hollywood Ridazz, so the ride turned east after the Swarming of the Grove and the Pan Pacific Park rest stop. Nothing was planned, everything was just done by a caucus.
I would say that the next LACM should include a "spontaneous" ride through BH, though again it all depends on what the group decides.
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Ridazz Roulette!
At approximately 8:30pm on Friday 28 March 2008 at the intersection of Hollywood Boulevard and Highland Avenue in Hollywood, California, during the Los Angeles Critical Mass ride, the driver of a white Sterling truck consciously and deliberately drove into the intersection and attempted to run down a group of approximately 5 bicyclists. The driver appeared Caucasian or Hispanic with short dark hair. The truck and trailer were white with no markings or logos. The trailer being pulled by the cab was a California license plate #4MD2735. The cab plate is unknown.
I'm kind of bored of Circle of Death lately.
i like bikes.
is that a little cubbie talkin? awww cute. pet the cubbie. pee on him.
@ RB