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Thread started by Roadblock at 09.20.08 - 12:17 pm
so the chimp now wants BIG GOVERNMENT (read: the taxpayer) to clean up the mess created by reduced government oversight during his regime. what does this all mean? is this shit a loan that these financial types will have to repay to the govt with interest?
And all this money is being given away without checks and balances, without hearings, without approval from the congress. It is being given away by unelected flankies who used to work for these same firms or their affiliates and they'll go back working for them in a few months.
They are completely cleaning out the country before leaving office. These people should be tried and hung for treason.
I've been resisting the urge to respond to these political post, The reason, I have learned from past experience on this site. Most people just want to vent, nobody really listens to each other. Most importantly, only a handful would even attempt to do anything about anything. The best you have at this site is just stating the problem with out offering any solution, or course of action on what to do.
With that being said.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT?
I already know the answer,
NOTHING
(unless rolling over, just allowing it to happen with a little bit of bitching is something,)
I'm going to have a bike ride, where we go back in time and convince the SEC to reign in all the risk obfuscation mechanisms that allowed this mess to come into being in the first place. I have all the news clippings I need to convince them. Now all I need is a time machine. Anybody have one? Remember, I'm talking about going to the past here, not The Future...
Also, a friend of mine recently made the argument that allowing AIG to go under would have engendered as much international ill will as the Iraq war. It was a surprisingly convincing hyperbole.
Dave,
I'll tell you what I'm going to do about it.
I'll make sure all my friends vote in November. I know it doesn't sound as sexy as shooting the motherfuckers but that's what I plan to do. Vote for Obama. Now go ahead and give us the 1500 word speech how the two parties are the same. I used to give that speech myself. I don't care if they are the same.
The Republicans are raping us every day, the Democrats promised not to rape us on the weekends. They are lying. They are probably going to rape us every other weekend. Fine. My butthole needs that break.
I was going to say this is unbelievable, but then i realized im not that really suprised. Just saddened and almost ashamed. I'm only 18 and I can't help but think what the nation will be like when im 28. Will the dollar even be worth anything?
This all started because of the sub-prime lending fiasco. People were getting mortgages they couldn't afford and banks were lending to people who could never pay them back. Everything would have been fine if the housing market had kept on an upswing, but with the crash people couldn't pay back the banks. The banks then stopped lending to the consumers and eventually each other. Our market depends on the flow of capital. Remember that "economic stimulus package" nonsense? Yea, that's what that was all about.
The administration definitely has had some boneheaded policies here, but at least some of the blame rests on those who bought homes they couldn't afford. We're now literally picking up the tab.
Good grief, I just heard about the 700 billion thing. This is absurd. Things like funding public transit are labeled socialist while epic bail outs of corporations that have made bad business choices is a "free market". Also as part of this bail out, the legal limit to our national debt would have to be raised since this would exceed our current limit by adding the cost of the entire Iraq war in one fell swoop. That new debt cap would be 11.3 trillion dollars, which looks like $11,300,000,000,000.
Putting that $700 billion in perspective relative to the high speed train I've been promoting in the coming CA election, that would be enough to pay for the entire project with no private partnerships (which would pay the majority of the CA project) 17.5 times over. Which would be enough to connect our entire country with coast to coast all electric high speed trains with branching nodes to major cities.
Decapitation by light saber is more like it. or better yet. sear off their arms and legs and make them useless stumps. even better thrust the tip of the lightsaber blade into their frontal lobes and labotomize them all and institutionalize them as mentals. YESSSSSSSSS!
I haven't been following this thread topic, but either way I'm definitely upset about the situation that currently exists, so what am i doing about it?
"hmm, i wonder what else we can pull off while we are still in office. offshore drilling? hey, that sounds profitable. corporate bailout? damn, how easy to rape the country! and we'll do it quick so it looks like we are finding a solution, but its really pointless because we are voting this week! yipee for us"
they should all be tried for murder and fraud.
The important thing as individual citizens is to keep talking about it in forums like this and to act as a group and to influence and inspire those around us. to educate others and promote awareness of all kinds of topics. art, literature, current events, politics, consciousness, and so forth. if we truly want to be enlightened individuals we can expand our knowledge to our community, because the mass media and entertainment news TV only presents us the drivel they want to keep us in a system of bare necessity and ignorance. we must seek the truth, and when we find it, enlighten others.
So, shop locally, buy organic when you can, write to your senator or congressman, share wisdom and community, and remember that one person can make a difference, i.e. martin luther king, bob marley, and yourself.
This article by Jason Linkins points out that the $700,000,000,000 bailout that Treasury Secretery Paulson proposes will be conducted in a manner unchallengeable by courts and ungovernable by the People's duly sworn representatives.
Don't drive when the zombies come. Be happy if you're on a plane. As long as the outbreak doesn't happen on the plane. Hey, let's take this topic somewhere else.
I NEED TO ASK YOU TO SUPPORT AN URGENT SECRET BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP
WITH A TRANSFER OF FUNDS OF GREAT MAGNITUDE.
I AM MINISTRY OF THE TREASURY OF THE REPUBLIC OF AMERICA. MY COUNTRY
HAS HAD CRISIS THAT HAS CAUSED THE NEED FOR LARGE TRANSFER OF FUNDS OF
800 BILLION DOLLARS US. IF YOU WOULD ASSIST ME IN THIS TRANSFER, IT
WOULD BE MOST PROFITABLE TO YOU.
I AM WORKING WITH MR. PHIL GRAM, LOBBYIST FOR UBS, WHO WILL BE MY
REPLACEMENT AS MINISTRY OF THE TREASURY IN JANUARY. AS A SENATOR, YOU
MAY KNOW HIM AS THE LEADER OF THE AMERICAN BANKING DEREGULATION
MOVEMENT IN THE 1990S. THIS TRANSACTIN IS 100% SAFE.
THIS IS A MATTER OF GREAT URGENCY. WE NEED A BLANK CHECK. WE NEED THE
FUNDS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. WE CANNOT DIRECTLY TRANSFER THESE FUNDS
IN THE NAMES OF OUR CLOSE FRIENDS BECAUSE WE ARE CONSTANTLY UNDER
SURVEILLANCE. MY FAMILY LAWYER ADVISED ME THAT I SHOULD LOOK FOR A
RELIABLE AND TRUSTWORTHY PERSON WHO WILL ACT AS A NEXT OF KIN SO THE
FUNDS CAN BE TRANSFERRED.
PLEASE REPLY WITH ALL OF YOUR BANK ACCOUNT, IRA AND COLLEGE FUND
ACCOUNT NUMBERS AND THOSE OF YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN TO
WALLSTREETBAILOUT@TREASURY.GOV SO THAT WE MAY TRANSFER YOUR COMMISSION
FOR THIS TRANSACTION. AFTER I RECEIVE THAT INFORMATION, I WILL RESPOND
WITH DETAILED INFORMATION ABOUT SAFEGUARDS THAT WILL BE USED TO
PROTECT THE FUNDS.
So I guess Mc Lame is now going to show up to the debate. What a small minded child. Wimping out when things looked crazy. Then givng in because of public opinion. He should have let Palin stand in for him tonight. Biden can EASILY stand in for Obama. Palin is in over her head. She couldn't win a debate with such seasoned and intelectual people.
The debate was fuckin depressing. The Democrats had a chance to kick the Republicans in the nuts with this 700 billion bailout and what do they do? They knock themselves out rushing to help George Bush's White House .
700 fuckin billion and McCain is talkin about 3 million for some bear study? And Obama has no comeback?
yeah man.... OBAMA fucked up. he could have really stuck it to McLame.... really there should be rioting in the streets because of this 700 billion. fuck me. I'm supposed to pay taxes for THIS shit?
most of the people who are losing their homes? they are people who were riding the real estate game fipping houses and got caught when the bubble burst. these aren't people who were in it for the long haul. they should review each purchase and rescue only if it's a family's only house and simply restructure their mortgage to be fixed rate for a longer term. the rest of the system can collapse for all I care.
BTW this $700 Billion Bail out is cover for this $634 Billion corporate spending spree: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5injFfO8MlwJfFFF_n29IR630N94AD93F7NSG0
The house will be voting on this tomorrow, the Senate on Wednesday. Plus, Bush could still veto the bill, but here is what it says:
"The plan would let Congress block half the money and force the president to jump through some hoops before using it all. The government could get at $250 billion immediately, $100 billion more if the president certified it was necessary, and the last $350 billion with a separate certification — and subject to a congressional resolution of disapproval." (taken from msnbc.com)
Sounds a lot better than handing $700 billion no questions asked like they wanted in the beginning, but it's still bullshit.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The fate of the Bush administration's $700 billion financial bailout plan was abruptly thrown in doubt Monday as a House vote turned against the controversial measure....
I called my Congressman Xavier Becerra (Northeast LA) this morning and he voted against it. Yeahy!
They will vote again. Please call and tell them to wait till we have a new President at least.
This is super easy to fill out and will send mail to Senators Boxer and Feinstein if you live in California.
http://www.votenobailout.org/
But the House votes first. Please tell your Congressman too.
http://www.house.gov/writerep/ The website seems to be out right now. It's been going in and out all morning. We are bringing the congress servers DOWN yo!
"I guarantee it was rejected because there were too many restrictions on wall street. they will re-write it with loopholes and then pass it."
Now that I think about it, you're absolutely right. I was sort of surprised it didn't pass the way Pelosi was supporting it. It must not have been the dems who defeated it
"Ample no votes came from both the Democratic and Republican sides of the aisle. More than two-thirds of Republicans and 40 percent of Democrats opposed the bill." (msnbc.com)
Why aren't people talking about how the MAJORITY of DEMS voted YES on this bill?
I can only see a few reasons. The bill was actually a good one after all, and that the Democrats created a bill that was acceptable, but not perfect. OR, the Republicans didn't get what they wanted, therefore shooting down the bill, so a "better" one will pass behind closed doors, away from the public eye.
Why aren't people talking about how the MAJORITY of DEMS voted YES on this bill?
@dak - Perhaps because the Dems have received big $$$ from finance corporations. No, it is not a good bill - bailing out banks, lenders and investors who are in trouble because of their greed and shady practices.
@Dak It's true a lot of Democrats voted for it and a lot of them didn't.
Basically the left wing of the Democratic party and the right wing of the Republican party voted against it.
But you are right it's obscene that the Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi is pushing for it but the Democratic party has strong ties to Wall Street just like the Republicans are tied to oil and military. Each party represents different areas of interest in the corporate world.
I don't think that every single member of congress is crook but even if they are there has been such an overwhelming opposition to this that some of them at least need to keep up the pretenses and oppose it.
Congressional Democrats have less to worry about this election than Republicans. Most of the people voting "yes" were from safe districts without a hotly-contested election this year. Everyone realizes that the bailout is massively unpopular, so they'll only vote for it if they think it won't come back to bite them later on. The Democratic base doesn't like it because it's a handout to the fat cats, and the Republican base doesn't like it because it basically socializes the banking industry.
So why did anyone in Congress vote for the bailout? On the one hand, you could say that they're all in the pocket of big business (thank you, Captain Obvious!), but on the other, it may actually be necessary. I don't claim to know the depth of the problem, but it's obvious that the longer we go without anyone willing to loan money, the more banks will fail, and the closer we'll get to a proper Depression. Does it take a $700B bailout to keep that from happening? I suspect not, but we'd better come up with something quick.
fuck it. bring on a depression. you think I'm joking? this country needs a good ass whooping to wake the fuck up.
here is an idea
END THE IRAQ and AFGHANI WARS
then, take that 2 trillion in savings and nationalize the home mortgae industry. then once the market stabalizes and housing prices drop back to affordability let the govt sell that shit back.
“The Federal Reserve Banks should be seized by Congress under Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution. The FED banks could survive as clearinghouse banks, but the Federal Reserve that has robbed the American people for 100 years would cease to exist. The debt owed by the American people to the FED banks would be discharged in bankruptcy. Congress would take monetary policy from the FED and would simply stand in place of the FED through a monetary board. The FED credit computers would be transferred to Congress who would issue new credit (money), because under our present system 97% of all money originates as credit. This new credit would keep the system going and prevent collapse. It could all be done without interest and without debt. The backs of the international banking cartel would be broken forever, and the American people through their elected representatives would control monetary policy; i.e. money in circulation, interest rates, and credit availability.”
Darrell Castle, candidate for vice-president of the Constitution Party.
Pearlstein, Bush, Paulson, Pelosi, et.al., along with Obama and McCain, should also read the U.S. Constitution. Then they would see that the problem stems from the fact that in 1913 Congress privatized our money supply by turning it over to the private banks that own the Federal Reserve System. This is also why we have lived under the mass delusion that a healthy financial sector leads to a healthy producing economy.
Actually it’s the other way around. The financial sector should support the producing economy, not bleed it dry through interest, fees, commissions, and the destruction that arises from financial profit-seeking.
I love Ralph Nader.... but he just doesn't have a voice in this system from the MEDIA. why does the collective media only allow 2 voices (dems and repubs) into debates? imagine if nader and all parties were allowed to be part of the debates? just because an opinion is not popular or a candidate is not beyond a poularity thresh-hold doesnt mena we should be allowed to hear what they are saying. there is a cloud of stupidity in the framework that the media is selling us. it's not a conspiracy it's right there in front of our faces.
Obama... I know... he's an insider....but he is 5 times as intelligent as Mc Cain and Palin combined.
All of this is just making me sick. Its us that will pay for all of this in the future: higher taxes, fucked economy, more homelessness, higher unemployment, and more crime... wow, what a future.
Remember Oregon Congressman Earl Blumenauer's long-sought $20 per month tax credit for bike commuters, intended to extend a benefit to cyclists that motorists have received for decades? The measure ridiculed by North Carolina Rep. Patrick "Give Me Fossil Fuels or Give Me Death" McHenry? It didn't make it into law last year, but it seems the bike commuting credit has found its way into the latest version of the financial bailout package.
Section 211 of the "Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008" allows for a "qualified bicycle commuting reimbursement" for "reasonable expenses incurred by the employee during such calendar year for the purchase of a bicycle and bicycle improvements, repair, and storage, if such bicycle is regularly used for travel between the employee’s residence and place of employment."
Other transpo-related items in the bill include credits for biofuels and other "alternative" mixtures, plug-in electric vehicles, and what looks like a few goodies for oil and natural gas producers. Another section includes incentives for green construction and renewable energy production.
The full text of the 451-page bill, expected to be taken up by the House of Representatives on Friday, is available here. Tell us if you find other items of interest.
I know, this is all bullshit. These corporations are all about a free market with no government intervention until the free market stops working for them. Hypocrites!! Privatizing profits while socializing losses. Its out-fucking-rageous.
I really really really really wish upon a star mr. deeds style that the 700B would be to add a cash injunction to save shit--to keep liquidity in the market--to keep credit available.
As of now confidence in the market is equal to shit-nothing because we have indecision...and indecision costs in terms of magnitude (this is intentionally without comment as to whether this wait-and-rethink is worth it or not).
Short term cash flow shortages/fuckups are what cause businesses to fold and have fire-sales... but when everyone has this problem at the same time.... Fuckkk
I don't own shit and am a grad-student-case-in-point of life-on-borrow, but I live monastic-esq so I'm not off bad as many... yet.
Please everyone contact your house rep and tell them to vote NO tomorrow! The biggest reason the House voted against it last time was because their offices were stormed by constituents - if we get lazy they may buckle under peer pressure and fear tactics. BE VOCAL! CALL, EMAIL, GO TO THEIR OFFICES! TODAY!
Congressman Earl Blumenauer represents North Portland and all of Clackmas and he introduced this bill that was defeated before the bailout but somehow included in the bailout plan. The idea is that If you commute on your bike every day and every month, the employer of your company will recieve a tax benefit and you will earn $20 (or more) in tax credits per month.
I mean yeah it sucks it had to be bundled on this bailout bill, but better than knowing Patrick "my clean coal is cleaner than your bike" McHenry (R-NC) constantly kills it (but he's also known to support the bundling of the bill to include NASCAR exemptions).
No moral dilemna here. While $20/mo is nice, its just a bribe. The truth is that congess didn't pass the bill initially because there wasn't enough pork attached to it, not because it wasn't strict enough on bank regulation, not because it wouldnt hold people accountable or withold ceo bonuses. Its all bullshit. This government is trashed by money interests. The government is corrupted by greedy insiders.
Bailout scare talk
Politicians need to stop frightening us -- and stop giving stuff away.
Joel Stein
October 3, 2008
If I were in Congress, I'd hold out. Every representative who voted no on the bailout got something totally sweet in the bill that passed the Senate. Jim Ramstad (R-Minn.) changed his mind once he got the health insurance for mental illness he's been fighting for. The Senate is trying to bribe Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) with tax breaks for Arizona solar companies. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.), who rides a bicycle, is supposed to be tempted by a tax deduction for bike commuters, as Democrats Adam Schiff of Burbank and Brad Sherman of Sherman Oaks are by tax breaks for movie producers. If they all vote no again, the next version of the bill will include a federally funded movie about a schizophrenic guy who rides his solar-powered bike to work. Which will win 8,000 Oscars.
Apparently, the Senate doesn't do big picture. When the House rejected a $700-billion bailout that would have put our country even more precariously in debt, senators piled on $120 billion in tax cuts.
In that YouTube clip, Rep. Brad Sherman (D-CA) says some congresspeople were told in private briefings that if they did not pass the bailout bill, circumstances would soon force the federal government to "impose martial law."
There is a national presidential directive that allows the president to "declare martial law" which means the president is, at his own discretion, allowed to suspend ALL laws and essentially become a dictator in the case of "emergency". The Bush administration put it in place as part of the Homeland Security bullshit.
Furthermore, the government is fully capable of artificially creating natural disasters and the like via a nifty little machine dubbed HAARP.
oday, the House Oversight Committee discovered that, just one week after the federal government bailed out insurance giant AIG, company executives went on a retreat to a luxury resort. The executives spent nearly $500,000 on manicures, facials, pedicures, and massages, among other things. During a hearing today, Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) asked, “Have you heard of anything more outrageous?”:
CUMMINGS: Let me describe for some of you the charges that the shareholders, taxpayers, had to pay. AIG spent $200,000 dollars for hotel rooms. Almost $150,000 for catered banquets. AIG spent $23,000 at the hotel spa and another $1,400 at the salon. They were getting manicures, facials, pedicures and massages while American people were footing the bill. And they spent another $10,000 dollars for I don’t know what this is, leisure dining. Bars?
"The development of Modern Industry, therefore, cuts from under its feet the very foundation on which the bourgeoisie produces and appropriates products. What the bourgeoisie, therefore, produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable."
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