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Last night, at about 3:15 a.m., Ben and I decided to ride out from the toy ride after-party spot to the Pantry, to get some breakfast before catching the Gold Line home. We were riding single-file for no more than 20 minutes, when a car suddenly swerved and came to a halt at the curb in front of me. All four doors of the car flew open, and two guys came charging at me while yelling “Give us your fucking bike!” They grabbed my bike by the front wheel, then the handle bars, and I freaked out and jumped off my bike as they yanked it away. At this point, I wasn't sure if any of the four guys had a weapon on them. I saw that Ben had thrown his bike in the road and was physically fighting with the driver and front passenger in front of the car. I started to look for my phone in my backpack to call the cops. The two guys in the back were shoving my bike in the back seat of the car and trying to get in with it. It occurred to me that no one had a weapon, so I started trying to pull my bike back away from them. The two guys fighting with Ben jumped in the front of the car, and Ben came to the back and kicked in the tail light while I continued trying to pull my bike out. They drove off with the door still partially open.
An hour later we filed a report with the police, but the car the guys were in had no license plate, just a dealer plate. They were young, Latino-looking guys, and they looked like they just came from the club, not like cholos or thugs. It seems pretty obvious that they were following us, although I have no clue from what point, because we had pulled over at the Chinatown station and no one was anywhere around us. The cops were helpful in the sense that when they finally showed up, they took down a lengthy description of the guys, their car, and my bike.
I'm mainly posting this, because I want the ridazz to know what lengths the bike thieves are willing to go to. What happened was random and incredibly scary. I'm unbelievably sad that I lost my bike, but I'm grateful neither of us were hurt and that the situation didn't end in a worse way. Thank you to ridazz Lauren and Jessica for hanging around, hounding the cops to come, and giving the cops their testimony. Thanks to Gopez and the other male ridaa (Grant?) who also stopped and then tried to chase down the car.
Here are the specifics on my bike:
Red/White LeMond
2008 ETAPE
54 frame
2 skull stickers, one on the top tube and one on the headset
tons of spoke cards
the black foam tape on the right drop was coming undone
a cat eye headlight/tail light
tons of spoke cards
a sizable paint chip on the left fork
Oh man. I have a LeMond Etape, probably the same make as yours, and I left that party riding alone. I don't know what I would've done if that happend to me. It's scary to think people would physically attack someone to get newish, cheap, low end roadbike.
That Sucks!!! I wish I was riding with you guys last night, I always carry a big can o mace with me and I love to use it on asshole/robber/thieves like that!
@ digablesoul... yea, that's probably why they went for me (the girl) and my bike, while the other two guys were trying to fight w/ and distract ben. like i said, i'm grateful we weren't hurt, but the idea that 4 guys were willing to pull this for one bike is ridiculous.
Man... i'm think were going to handcuff ourselves to the bike now. I remember seeing non looking riders (like dressed up) walking around but nothing like the ones you described. I've been jacked while on my back when I was like 12 and remember just frozen with fear.
Props to hear that you were trying to pull the bike out and all that cause this could've went really bad.
You guys are a tough couple and it sucks that it happened to you guys... or to anyone for that matter.
This is why I'll ride with either larger groups, or ride in a high-traffic area where if multiple attackers were involved, I would at least have the advantage of shoving them into traffic.
In addition, my U-Lock is right next to the shooting hand for instant slam-fest action.
Oh boy, that sucks. Brian and I rode back around the same, that could very well have been us. Sorry for your loss. I'm going to get some mace and practice some old Tae Kwon Do moves.
Let's hope the new administration does something about the economy and jobs, because otherwise we're going to see a lot more of this as more people are unemployed, angry and broke.
We need to look into a way to "chip" our bikes, so they can be tracked if they wander off.
One of these fuckers would have been near death if he had jacked my ass. Sorry, but unless these thieves realize they will pay a high price for jacking a bike, they will continue to do it.
I would have slammed my U-Lock into the back windshield as well.
srsly.... we should have a ride to go and get mace. everyone should carry this on their person, along with their ulock, patch kit and tubes. this could have been so much worse and it could have happened to anyone.
come on guys... arm yourselves. even if it's just mace. i know imma be investing in some.
i'm so sorry you had to go through that ordeal. i'll keep my eyes peeled as well.
I hope the cops get these guys! I talked more to the security guard after you guys left (who was doing nothing while the attack happened right in front of her. believe me, she got an ear full from me) and while I was doing so I noticed there was a security camera pointing at the street outside (exactly where this all happened) and I got information for you to get the video tape of the attack or to get the cops to get the tape. Call Lt. Morgan or Sgt. Lujan at (213) 237-4475 on Monday, any time after 8am and tell them what happened. Unfortunately the security guard would not give me her name because she didn't want to be involved (which was apparent when she wouldn't even call the cops for us!) When the cops came I told them about the security camera so hopefully they are already looking into it, but I think it would be best for you to get the ball rolling on that.
PS- I still have one of the guys hats that they dropped haha. Good luck and I'm so glad you guys are safe.
Also, thanks Gavin for trying to find the car right after it happened.
I want a description of the security guard. "She wouldn't get involved." That's BS. I want her to lose her job. I want the security company that contracts with that building to lose their contract.
What's the address of the building with the security guard and the camera? They should definitely hand out the footage.
Dude, how awesome would it be if they pulled the tape and caught those guys and their car on camera?
(Admittedly a slim chance, since a lot of those cameras are just dummies meant to deter graffiti, etc.)
Since this was a violent assault/battery/robbery instead of your garden variety cable lock cutting bike theft, the police will hopefully take this a little more seriously.
If this business can afford to hire guard(s), you can bet they have working cameras. I'm with Marino, what's the address of this business the guards were guarding? I would like to talk to the business and see what they have to say about their actions. That's complete bullshit that they would not want to get involved when they see an assault on the streets. If they don't dump this company, then we'll make sure their patrons know about their practices.
I would talk to that business tomorrow if possible to see about saving the footage too.
it wasn't an suv guys, it was a 4 door sedan. a silver nissan. ben kicked in the driver door and the driver side tail light. that's why the guys took off w/ the car door still open, because they were pulling the bike into the back over themselves/laps. i know it sounds ridiculous, and so much happened, but it literally all happened in a matter of seconds, a minute at the most. oh yea, and the car did not have plates. just a manufacturer's plate, blue and white. lauren, thanks so much, i am so grateful for your help. i will call the detectives and mention the sec. cam on monday.
you know what, earlier that night we had an incident with a silver car by the liquor store down the street from the BBQ HOUSE.
It was Ryan, Darwin, a couple others and myself and this car stopped at the light. there were four dudes in it... and one kept calling us !@#$?s this and !@#$?s that cus we ride bikes and it seemed like they were just looking for trouble.
i remember one of the kids... very light skinned. with a white t-shirt... looked like one of those tees that ultimate fighters walk into the ring with and put on after the fight (come on, yall know the ones, ed hardy types) no hat on. not sure if these are the same people.
Gawd that's terrible. So much worse than just finding that your bike has "disappeared" at the end of the night.
Bike thieves are such pathetic scum. By the sound of it, the damage you did to the car might have been more than the value of the bike. I hope these idiots get caught.
Hate to burst anybody's bubble, but security guards are there to observe and report, not to "get involved." Heaven knows they don't get paid enough to do any more than that. Let it go.
Major super fucking props to Ben for fucking up the thieves' vehicle. I guarantee you, it will cost the douchebag owner more to fix that damage (even if it's just in increased insurance premiums) than they will get for the bike. Anybody think that the other three fucktards in the car are going to pitch in to pay for the taillight and drivers' door sheet metal repair? Yeah...probably not. So much for that visceral moment of bromance. Take delight in that, and let the rest be a lesson: THIS IS THE BIG CITY. BE CAREFUL. Please.
whoa. it scares me that happened while you were with someone. as a single lady who rides everywhere alone at night...it makes me realize i'm not invincible.
but unfortunately, the cops have probably all forgotten about the whole thing. even if they have the tape...
If it's a licensed bike, the cops can put it into their database and if you find it, they will cross-check it an if it's yours, they'll cut through the locks to give it to you.
bike licenses aren't just to harass cyclists.
i'm glad you're o-k and i think you and the man you were with acted very bravely
This sucks big time. Im always sorry to hear that another bike gets stolen, and this is even worst when they attack us. We need to do something about this.
PC -
"Hate to burst anybody's bubble, but security guards are there to observe and report, not to "get involved." Heaven knows they don't get paid enough to do any more than that. Let it go."
Me -
I wasn't talking about the guards getting in there to mix it up with these evil doers, but when they can't even call police when they see an assault happening, then that's just plain wrong! And you bet the businesses would get real concerned in the area if word gets around that security would act this way. Patrons will think twice about patronizing this area if they can't count on security to call the police if there's an assault happening.
I'm curious, was this a pretty new car or was it a beater?
+1 User1
The security guard should be calling the police, her guard supervisors & testifying. Parker center, the police headquarters are only a block away.
220 N. Spring is the City Hall but I believe we are talking about 220 S. Spring which I think is the LA Times employees garage. They may have an interest in the story...
i thought pepper spray was a weapon as well as mace. i remember when it came out. there was this whole thing about having to have a licence or a cert of some sort to carry it on you. i could be wrong. i'll hit the security store by my moms and check it out today.
I was walking home drunk with some friends last night from old town pasadena when we almost got mugged by four dark-skinned guys in a dark-green sedan. We were right next to the pasadena police station when this happened too.
Here's the story, I was snapping a photo of two of my friends carrying my other friend who had passed out at a bar when a car pulls up next to me. One guy told me to give him the camera, I refused. They drove off and made a couple u-turns back to harass us some more. At this point they threw something at one of my friends. I proceeded to approach them with a weapon I had on me when my other friend pulled me back and warned me that they probably had guns. They sped off.
This was all right in front of the police station so yeah, I guess the economy's really messing with the crime rates. Be careful and carry a gun where ever you go!!
anyone can carry peperspray, they changed the regulation a long time ago, you can not carry the super size police edition bottle tho, you get the mini one without a permit.
the burning would've could've question is what if I and or a group of us could have popped out from a corner (unvisible to the suspects) as they pulled their barracading manuever with their car. what if, what if, what if. I wish i had gotten there sooner guys. glad no one is hurt though. i hope we find these motherphuckers. what are we not to ride alone now? what the fuck has this come down to? are we going to have to be strapped now? shit im really considering carrying a loaded pistol now.
It's the economy, it's only going to get worse. When things are good, you may have one person in a group who is strapped for cash, and his/her friends help out on nights on the town.
Now, you have whole car loads who are un- or underemployed, strapped for cash, and all thinking the same thing when they're out partying. Let's try to make some quick cash.
These incidents are especially scary since the victims weren't out on their own.
what we need to do is go to Walmart, buy ourselves piece of shit magna mountain bikes and ride those everywhere instead of these nice expensive road bikes.
Won't get jacked if you don't have shit worth jacking.
omg i'm so glad you're not hurt and i'm so sorry about your bike. this another reason why i don't like riding alone at night on my new bike. it's not a super nice bike, but with people like that rolling around you can never be safe. so sad what people will do to others.
which ben was it? ipso or hardy?
anyway i'm glad you're okay and i hope the cops find these guys.
It was ipso Ben... Yeah... I hear you about riding alone. I rode home alone on the bike path and had a flat near the goodwill near the 110 and was always watching my back. It's soooo nice to ride with others.... even when it's just two of you.
JazzyPhatNastee mentioned that earlier in the night the group ran into some beef with a silver Nissan. Nexo/Ben, did any of them fit this description:
"i remember one of the kids... very light skinned. with a white t-shirt... looked like one of those tees that ultimate fighters walk into the ring with and put on after the fight"
the guy that i remember the most, was the one that came charging/yelling at me. he was my height (5'7), medium/dark skinned, had a faded haircut (faded sideburns) with spikes on the top. he was wearing a wife beater and i think grey pants. the other 3 guys were bald, and it seemed that they were all around the same height (5'7). one of the 2 that were fighting w/ ben, had facial hair, a stache and goatee, but honestly i can't remember if he was lighter/darker than the main guy that took my bike. mostly because they were in front of the car while i was behind the car. i can't remember what any of the other 3 were wearing.
dude this majorly sucks. my friend kiwi also just mugged and jumped riding his bike in oakland this past week by 5 guys who just jumped in front him at the crosswalk. luckily he's still allive and they didnt want his bike, just his money.
this could have have happened to any of us. me and my girl rode back home along spring from the party as well. my u locks were in my bag. i dont want to even think about what could have happened.
perhaps i should make a u lock holster for easy access....
i think the surplus store on 4th, in between broadway and spring may also have some pepper spray if people live in the area...
damn, so sorry to hear about this. i'm glad you guys are okay. honestly, this is scary. i bike home alot at 3am or later and have always feared getting hit by a drunk driver or just a plain asshole. i would never have assumed people are willing to go this far just for a bike. humans are assholes.
i wouldn't recommend it, but i carry a small pocket knife on me at all times. not a siwss army knife, but something that would actually do damage. i would never want to use it on someone, but shit...
A shaped charge that could stick to anything would be perfect for these piles of shit, but just powerful enough to blow the car over on its side.
If there's a scuffle, just let 'em take your shit and throw the explosive onto the car.
Drives away, you hit the detonator, and depending on where you threw it, the car will land on its roof.
Go to the car, kick the fuckers in the head a few times, and take your shit back.
What's their excuse to the cops going to be?
"Oh, we tried to jack some guys bike and then we crashed and rolled trying to get away from him!!!"
The shitty economy's no fucking excuse to go out and make everyone's life more miserable than it already is.
If you're that miserable and miss not having what everyone else has got, instead of stealing shit, do the world a favor, and walk into the path of a freight train.
the detective called me first thing this morning to get my info and go over my case. says he is going to retrieve the tape from the scene of the crime. gave him the serial number for my bike, since i bought it at pasadena cyclery earlier this year.
@ jazzyphatnastee... could you please get @ me so we can discuss your incident that happened earlier in the night and see if it's related? my email is nesoxochi@gmail.com. aim = nesoxochi.
keep us updated. i'm sure we're all keeping an eye out for a late 90s early 00s nissan with dealer plate and a broken tail light. complete with door dent i believe?
Looks like Broadway is the better street to take than Spring. I always take Spring too. Looks like it's Broadway now on. Better lit and more peds on it.
Good luck with the detective. I hope something good comes from the tape.
i am trying my best to hold my anger in... i want to do something about these idiots taking peoples bikes... Police reports obviously dont do anything. FUCK when someones only transport home are two wheels u dont fuck around. I feel like snapping someones neck, excuse me if im a little violent :).
We got jumped on Sunset Blvd between Benton Way and Coronado St.
It was around 1:30am after the Toy Ride. i was leading with 3 other riders. we passed Coronado and I saw 2 guys on bikes just waiting on the corner. I didnt think nothing of it. As we got close to Benton Way. 2 individuals crossed the street to get on our side of the street. As I got closer, one dude shouts out Give me your F*in bike!!. and tried to stop me. I dodged him and continued. The 2nd and 3rd rider avoids him as well. But our 4th rider was punched in the face and knocked off his bike. The thugs tried to take his bike but failed when a mini cooper made a uturn to help us out. And they bolted off.
Our friend was ok. Just got startled abit.
I think the first 2 goons on the bike was a lookout to let the other 2 goons know we were coming down.
be safe all when riding out there.
FYI,
Coronado St., North of Sunset and the immediate surrounding area is a place you generally want to avoid and be vigilant when passing, during the day and especially late night. former bangers and people that i know who grew up in Echo Park knew that area to be "the snake pit". cause all of the gangs that used to run that street in particular. it's better now, but can still be sketch. I'm glad you guys are ok.
mace group buy didn't happen. i dropped the ball. i still want some though. Anyone want to take over on it? they make great ones that are small batons that fit on your keychain.
who here has been maced? will someone mace me and videotape it so i can see how bad it really is? i want to know if this shit will work or if it's really a waste of time. i'm more concerned with accuracy and someone getting more fucked if they can't properly mace the person.
yes, silver nissan, late 90s early 00s. kicked in driver door and busted driver tail light. no plates. blue & white dealer plate.
shoulda, woulda, coulda, hindsight is 20-20. but when you're in the middle of something crazy unexpected like that , you'll never do exactly what you wish you could do. it wasn't taking candy from a baby, but thanks for that eddie. if you ever hit some misfortune, i'll be sure to show you the same sympathy.
I've seen a comparison done between pepper spray, tazer and a .38 pistol (volunteer wore a vest of course).
Pepper spray incapacitated him for the longest time and had the longest residual effects.
The videos I've seen of mace/pepper spray look kinda like a squirt gun (a stream you kinda have to aim precisely). I wish it was more like roach/ant spray (a powerful fog)
that's what worries me eric. i think it's really easy to miss the target with mace. i also feel more comfortable macing someone if i actually know how it will affect the person.
Let's plan a sting op, where we hide and have a couple fancy bikes out as bait. Have cameras, mace, and zipties ready for a hog tie hoedown and then we can citizens arrest them and call the cops.
Are you referring to neso/ipso? Cmon man. They were outnumbered... plain and simple and did what they could. Ben taking on two fuckers and Sarah taking on the other two... I can't give them enough props for what they did.
I am dubious of the chemical weapons solution. Even when they used this stuff in WWI, it would blow back on them or blow sideways into some French village. I was at a local bar once and some guys were rolling on the ground fighting, the bouncers came out and sprayed them with pepper spray but the shit filled the air and people standing in line all got it in their eyes and lungs.
The taser needs to be applied to a person for a long time to be effective. Who wants to be that up close and personal with an assailant.
A U-Lock pulled out of your belt and held up like a hammer can strike fear into the eyes of any would-be thief. You don't even have to get close to them or even hit them with it. The sight of it alone is enough to show them you are ready to seriously hurt them. Also it is capable of doing a lot more damage than mace, pepper spray or a tazer. I am willing to bet that any thief would rather run than get the business end of a U-Lock.
Yeah they don't want any u lock action as long as they they can't out number you or have a badder weapon than you!
I like the idea of Mace. It takes on more than one person, and if applied properly, would be minimal danger to the user. The cops still use it and that's good enough for me.
snap some fuckin necks... period... u kick a bullys ass one time and you will never be bullied. The reason why these "thieves" keep takin peoples shit is because no one ever really gives them anything to be scared of. You need some lessons on self defense i will be more than willing to teach anyone who wants to learn. I hate when people take things that are not theirs. Even worse i cant stand fuckin bullys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@brass & eddie
i think that would be the most effective, the spray off. you want to know that when the time comes the dude aint just gonna stand there. 2 people shooting at eachother and trying to avoid the others stream would be a close comparison
If you can get the name of the bike thief, and get the person with their bike stolen to identify him, get that person to take the thief to small claims court.
If he shows up, then he gets tried. You can't get sent to jail in small claims, but you can get cash, and it can help the criminal trial (althoug it's usually done the other way round) If he doesn't show up, then you get a default judgment, which would be sweet.
Maybe you guys could call the LAPD and do some "ride alongs" in that precinct. That way you could get to see what a day in the life of a cop is like, as well as spread the word about where the thieves are and what they might do to get some easy busts (that we would be HAPPY to publicize and give them some good press for).
""A U-Lock pulled out of your belt and held up like a hammer can strike fear into the eyes of any would-be thief. "
When the thief has a gun?
toweliesbong
12.15.08 - 5:41 pm
-------SO YOU WERE THERE AND YOU SAW A GUN???"
NO WASi NOT THERE, I DIDN'T SAY I WAS THERE, I WAS MERELY POINTING OUT THAT THERE ARE THESE THINGS CALLED GUNS, BACK WHEN I WAS IN A GANG WE SOLVED EVERYTHING WITH OUR FISTS, THAT WAS BACK IN THE DAYS WHEN NO ONE NEEDED A U-LOCK, YOU ONLY NEEDED TO TIE YOUR BIKE TO A POLE WITH YOUR FAVORITE PIECE OF STRING, THAT WORKED UNTIL I WAS 12, THEN WE STARTED FIGURING OUT HOW TO BREAK THE STRING SO WE STARTED USING SPEAKER WIRE, THAT DIDN'T LAST TOO LONG SO WE STARTED USING MOTORCYCLE CHAINS, THAT WORKED FOR QUITE SOMETIME BUT THEN PEOPLE STARTED CARRYING CHAIN TOOLS AND THAT WAS THE END OF THAT I'M JUST SAYING I'VE BEEN LAUGHED AT WHEN I PULLED OUT A DONG AND THE OTHER GUY WHIPPED OUT HIS GLOCK, SO NOT FUN.
Or we could lie and say they have guns, and the cops would be on them like flies on shit. But I really have an issue getting cops involved. Maybe that's just me.
If he shows up, then he gets tried. You can't get sent to jail in small claims, but you can get cash, and it can help the criminal trial (althoug it's usually done the other way round) If he doesn't show up, then you get a default judgment, which would be sweet.
Think about this, if these people had money for which you could sue them, why the fuck would they be stealing bikes?
a little breeze and pepper spray can backfire, right into the eyes of the one spraying the shit. Anything can be a weapon when used efficiently. You dont have to pull your u lock out and foam at the mouth. Dont always count on scaring someone off, most of the time you will have to get your hands dirty.
Hey you said the car had no plates! Do you recall what the plate said like where the car might have been bought?If its a small dealer you might be able to obtain info! Maybe check out local dealers and see who just bought a car of your discription!
we all ride our bikes and have taken some falls. Pedaled home at 5 in the morning with nothing but a t-shirt. Played foot down and scrapped some knees and elbows. Drank until u have thrown up etc...
Most of you have more balls than you think you do...get your hands dirty and protect what is rightfully YOURS!!!
i already said i would. I am willing to offer anything i know about protecting one self against these wanna be flooks for hunters... Or even become predator but that is a different story. HA! an elbow to the chin will let ANYONE know no matter how small u are that u mean business.
Big Ridazz. Roadblock Borfo Knuckle Myself, and anyone else.
We need to make sure that everyone gets home safe from these rides. The theives are only going to get more aggressive. I for one will offer my servicies of riding with people home who want an escort. I feel fairly safe on my own but will ride with others if they offer a place to crash or I will just ride home from there.
Please help with this if you can. If riders are riding home along tag along with others going in the same direction.
Stay in groups, crash on couches and ride home in the morning.
NOHO riders seem o roll out in 5-10 at a time, please take note and start departure ride just like we post pre-ride.
"most of the time you will have to get your hands dirty."
Sounds like ben did get his hands dirty. Also sounds like I'm fucked, if this sort of thing were to happen to me. I ride home alone at night as well. I am not ready to get attacked by some asshole.
"Think about this, if these people had money for which you could sue them, why the fuck would they be stealing bikes? You could do this, but good luck collecting."
You have TEN YEARS or so to collect, so it might be worth it just to have the judgment entered.
That way, instead of wondering when your bike is going to get stolen again, the thief is going to have to wonder when he's going to get another call about paying up.
Ask for people to ride with you Chynna. I know many people should be willing to ride later to provide saftey to our freinds who don't grow big like us animals who play polo.
@ parlorbikes --> Thanks for offering and suggesting that we continue to look out for each other. I've never come in the way of harm, but I'm darn stubborn and I would've ridden alone back from several rides if some ridazz didn't make sure to look out for me & get me back safe. This is huge. Apparently, even when you aren't alone bad shit can happen, but you won't be alone and you'll be all the much safer.
And then there's plain gettin' around, where we aren't always with another rida to begin with, what then? This is a concern.
As for mace - I have some, never used it, but it shoots a stream...and I have terrible aim. I'm afraid it would be useful and provoke hostility. Better solution? Ride faster?
I hate to hear about this incident, but really glad neither of you were hurt.
I'm looking into purchasing a big strong rider who has nothing to do all day who will be at my beck and call to escort me everywhere I need to go. Where can I find one of these?
strict ass/cash/grass payment, each of which has its own qualifications. Ass, of course, has the highest of standards which most men will be unwilling/unable to attain. It requires not only 24/7 escort services, but cooking, cleaning, and errand running as well. Other standards apply, but the likelihood of any man meeting them is so low there's no point discussing them.
So for our purposes:
Cash if you do not like grass.
Grass & Cash if I'm feeling generous and a lot of miles are involved.
Grass for all other purposes.
Also, if you keep me alive for the next 3 years, you will receive free legal services for up to 5 hours/wk for up to 3 years, or however long you remain my beck and call boy.
Disclaimer: This is simply an invitation to deal and shall not be construed as a binding offer or contract by any means.
believe me, mace can definitely subdue someone. i know from experience. that shit not only burns your eyes, but you choke and anything that comes in contact with the mist or liquid burns. it doesn't really blind you, but it makes it so hard to open your eyes. like having salt poured on them. my eyes, cheeks, and hands were burning for a good 3 hours.
Your in the big city. At night make sure to take along a friend that thugs respect. Sam Colt, Pietro Beretta, and mr Smith. Its doubful anyone would question there athority. Pepper spray is useless in wind, and stun guns require close contact. Just make sure your friend is registered to you, otherwise its a felony to carry conceled. I was charged with a felony when I used pepper spray on a bike thief. They also through in attempted murder, and a $50,000.00 bail. Should of used my 1911, Dead men tell no tails.
iTunes, you make it sound easy. But not everyone is as BAD-ASS as you.
In fact, EDDIEBOY is right. You have to have the right attitude.
You have to aware of your surrounding, and you have to pay attention and be ready for the worst. Especially if you are alone, or in a small group.
I've never been mugged, or jumped, but I've been in MANY MANY fucking sketchy areas and situations. I avoid it. Go with your guts, and don't pretend, don't be naive. If you're in a bad neighborhood, think about it. Pull out your U-Lock, put your keys in your knuckles, take the safety off your pepper spray. Do what ever it takes to get ready to defend yourself. Don't ride through skid row alone, don't go through the Snake-Pit alone - ride around these places, you're not a pussy for trying to be safe.
This fucking world we live in is driving the worst out of people, and people are getting desperate for entertainment and to fulfill whatever holes are in their hearts. The easiest thing to do is steal from the weak. That's what they do.
We're being preyed upon. And it sucks. I fucking fume whenever I think about it.
Ben & Sarah did the best they could. They defended themselves (the assholes could have had guns.) They fucked up their shit, and now they're using the system, because that's all we got - for now.
Ditto to what eddie has been saying. I got jacked this past Friday night, and I keep trying to think of how I could have avoided having my money taken - because I was such a push over.
The problem was, I was out numbered and caught off guard because I was in the wrong mindset. My first thought when I saw two guys jump out of the car was worrying if they were going to just jump me fore no reason or if I was going to get shot.
If I had my eyes open the whole time, I would have been able to swerve around the car and it would have changed the whole situation.
You have to be aware, and willing to stare a bitch with "scary" tatoos in the face and tell them how it is. Their stupid mind is likely reeling with the risks of attacking someone at random too. Make them think about the risks they're taking, the fuckers.
I GUESS THE IMPORTANT FACTOR IS THAT I'M ALWAYZ READY TO GET MY ASS KICKED. WHITCH IS ALWAYZ A STRONG POSSIBILITY, WHEN YOUR 46 YEARS OLD.
SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOU GETTING JACKED, SERIOUSLY.
TIMES ARE TOUGH RIGHT NOW, DUE TO THE ECONOMY, AND OTHER FACTORS, WE MUST ALWAYZ BE ON GUARD.
A LITTLE SIDE NOTE:
UBRAY IS NOT A 'WIMPY' LOOKING KINDA GUY, HE HAS THE PHYSIC OF SOMEONE THAT CAN DO A LOT OF DAMAGE.
I RIDE HOME EVERY TIME BY MY SELF, AND I TEND TO LET WOULD BE ATTACKERS KNOW THAT I'M READY TO DO SOME DAMAGE. (I'VE BEEN APPROCHED SEVERAL TIMES SENCE MOVING TO PASADENA)
WHO KNOWS, MAYBE I'LL COME OUT THE 'WINNER' AND MY FRIENDS THAT IS WHAT REALLY WILL ALLOW YOU NOT TO GET ROBBED, GRANTED I HAVE THIS BAD HABIT OF 'SNAPPING' QUICK.
(WHICH ALSO HELPS)
The more I'm consistently reminded of this shit, the more I'm eager to move my ass to a state with "Make-My-Day/Castle" laws.
Someone poses an immediate threat to you or your property, you could shoot/beat/stab the perpetrator with no recourse of criminal prosecution against yourself.
Whichever politician decided it was worthwhile to give an invading criminal a fighting chance must be surrounded by multi-million dollar, security systems and a Blackwater-esque security detail.
Invading criminals and "dumb-as-a-fucking-whore politicians" should all be shot in the shins and nutsack, then thrown down a mine-shaft in Death Valley.
Once again, I'm just trying to remind all of you that California has gone soft on the "wrong" types of criminals.
Eric Hair...I LOVE LOVE The pug video..super cute.
I am very sorry to hear about your lost. That really sucks.
Its hard to avoid situations like that because you never know when it will happen.Plus when things are spinning so fast you can't react the way you would like to. That said I suggest be prepared know your surroundings and be strong:D
My grandfather before passing away gave me a really cool vintage swiss army knife (very Fucking Sharp, I make sure of it).He told me "always keep it on you, it will save your life as it has mine." it fits perfect in my pocket and is always at reach. I also carry pepper spray on my keychain.....and a first aid kit....and extra sucks..really.
I may be small and sweet but don't fuck with me:D especially with the love of my life..my bike:D
Ok, seriously? If I use a baton on a would-be jacker, would they really run to the cops & say I hurt them? C'mon..."I was trying to steal her bike and she hit me." I expect they'd just run & hide & cry cuz they're cowards in the first place. Maybe it's because I'm a girl I think this way? Or no?
Danny Zuko has this amazing story about Joanna and her recovery of her stolen wheel from some douche bag on the subway. It's really a refreshing story to hear. I am requesting that Danny please post it!
I have been reading up on the law about pepper spray and mace.
Apparently it can only be used in very narrow circumstances. "Self-defense." Now does that include, protecting property? A call to my local LAPD station says...NO. I was told if personal property is being stolen, the LAPD should be called. If you are being physically (meaning your actual body, not your bike) attacked, injured or assaulted, than you can pull out the pepper spray or mace. If your bike is being ripped from your possession, it is not an assault. How crazy is that? Now, misuse of pepper spray, mace or tear gas is a FELONY. Three years in jail and $1000 fine.
All pepper spray, mace and tear gas canisters carry a warning.
"WARNING: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a crime under the law. The contents are dangerous--use with care."
And you must sign a form stating you understand that warning.
So does this mean pepper spray, mace and tear gas is out of the question to protect our bikes? La duderina? Any thoughts?
Also if you are a felon, on probation, a convicted drug user, or deemed mentally challenged by the state, you are prohibited from purchasing pepper spray.
Also, I believe that in CA we can only legally carry 2.5 oz of pepper spray. Anything more than that is illegal.
In my experience the difference between self denfese and assault is who threw the first punch.
I think it's just time we go to the surplus store and see what wares they have for this matter. I personally liked the stabby cat. It was this big pink cat with pointy ears. Your fingers go through the eyes and the ears stick out between your fingers. Pretty fierce but it's for close combat.
Field trip to Major Surplus in Gardena anyone?
Oh Oh!! Why not fling a wrench or something to startle them like an air horn or screaming that you have aids. I'm sure that would scare the poop outta anyone in close proximity. Especially when they're not expecting it.
CA does not justify the use of force to protect PROPERTY.
Basically, you can do whatever you need to do to protect yourself, or others, as far as your BODY goes. But as far as your property, CA wants you to just let it go.
But think about it skd, who's going to go to the cops and say, "Hey I was just trying to steal this person's bike and they fucking sprayed me with mace!"
yeah.. that seems like a stupidly easy thing to get around.
Thug wanted my bike > I wanted my bike > Thug wanted to hurt me for my bike > I feel threatened and hurt thug. The end.
thanks la duderina. I figured you could clarify the law for us.
Legal: Use of force to protect yourself.
Illegal: Use of force to protect property.
Sucks, but we need to be aware of the law so that we can decide how we want to approach this.
"Officer, he was hitting me and saying, give me your bike...I whacked him upside the head with my U-Lock in self-defense...I didn't care about the bike."
you could even say I had no idea he wanted my bike I thought he was going to assault/murder/rape me. and then force is justified (as long as it is necessary and proportional)
LoL and thanks for testing me on criminal law, but right now I need questions about property law!! lol
exactly eddie, but you can't feel threatened BECAUSE the criminal wanted your bike.
you have to make it sound like you thought the criminal was trying to assault YOU and that that assault had nothing to do with your bike.
Ladies - we have it easy with this one, because it is always reasonable for us to suspect that guys we don't know running up to us and grabbing at us are going to rape us, you know?
Basically you have to make it sound like you thought (reasonably) that the criminal's goal was to hurt YOU, not steal your bike.
But this stuff only is necessary if the cops get involved after the fact. I mean if you crack a would-be bike thief on the head with your ulock and ride off, its not likely he's going to call the cops on you, ya know?
I dunno duderina... that doesn't sound quite right. California requires you to just hand over anything anyone asks for as long as they agree to only hurt you if you don't. That's retarded. People don't have a right to protect their property? Only their body? What's the point in owning anything if it's only rightfully yours unless someone takes it?
your exactly right canadienne, it is stupid. But that's CA for you. Not all states have laws like that. Texas is one example. You can shoot someone for looking at you weird over there! lol
revolutionary - I will email you right now, but keep in mind I;ve only had one semester of property and my answer should not be taken as real legal advice!!!!
But I would love to hear your question it helps me practice for my exam
gnarls... I wonder what the Ontario law is... probably somewhere between those two.
Either way, I guess my conclusion from all of this would be: don't kill a bike thief, but if you rough em up a bit, or spray them with pepper spray, they've got to be pretty stupid to tell on you to the cops... so even if it's not quite legal to defend your bike... it might be a good idea?
Canadienne - the property is still rightfully yours, CA just doesn't like vigilante justice. They prefer you go through the justice system to get your stuff back.
But we all know that doesn't work. So if someone tries jacking my shit they're STILL get 1,500,000 volts to the fucking neck.
@skano
ahh you're right. my bad all. i was thinking coronado, north of temple, not sunset. don't know why i wrote that.
north of sunset is mariela's and a nice neighborhood.
amazing how streets can change dramatically once you cross a major street.
Yeah no shit! That chance of some thief being an outstanding citizen and charging you in court is pretty freakin slim. I'll take my chances carrying mace or pepper spray any day over some thug not issues with the law himself.
hmm this is still bothering me though. Maybe your law skills can help me figure out this hypothetical situation:
Thug: "Give me you fucking bike"
Me: "No"
Thug: kicks me off bike (or some act of violence against me in order to take the bicycle out of my hands).
Me: breaks out the pepper spray or u-lock and does some damage using mighty fists of rage... and afterwards reclaims bike.
now, the thief never said "give me your bike OR i'll hurt you" he asked for the bike, and I said no. Then he attacked my person. Then I defended myself. Wouldn't that be alright? Like, unless they get all technical and make it known that they will hurt me if I don't give them the bike BEFORE they actually hurt me... couldn't I just defend myself as if I were just being assaulted? Because you're allowed to say "no" to somebody who asks you for something that's rightfully yours. AND you're allowed to defend yourself from being assaulted. As two separate situations. I never did anything wrong, right?
Thug: "Give me you fucking bike"
Me: "No"
Thug: kicks me off bike (or some act of violence against me in order to take the bicycle out of my hands).
Me: breaks out the pepper spray or u-lock and does some damage using mighty fists of rage... and afterwards reclaims bike.
now, the thief never said "give me your bike OR i'll hurt you"
BUT WHEN YOU TALK TO THE POLICE YOU STILL SAY THAT THE THUG SAID "I AM GOING TO KILL YOU."
"AND THATS ALL HE SAID OFFICER, SO I CLOCKED HIM."
I also agree with everything this budding legal scholar says.
@skd
It's not that a u-lock is a "deadly weapon" in and of itself or according to any specific statute. I did a quick search for caselaw on this and came up with nothing. (sidenote: apparently swinging a chain with a heavy masterlock on the end at someone can be a deadly weapon)
It's not like a firearm, explosive or sword. It has a very specific function which is not related to the use of a weapon. The key word is INTENT. If you swing it at someone's head, it is likely to cause death or great bodily injury, just like any heavy blunt object...even a bike!
BUT if you swing it a u-lock at someone's arm or hand as they are grabbing your bike while you are still on it...well, that's not going to kill them, but it may likely break a bone. In that specific case...I'd say you'd be justified in using the u-lock to defend your property.
Don't get me wrong, it's a bit of a close call. As it's been noted all ready...courts frown upon vigilante justice.
I think this is where wearing a helmet really pays off. If they hit you in the noggin you're protected!! and it doubles as a weapon too!! battering ram!!
dont they teach us in self defense classes to utilize everything we have on our person to defend ourselves?
I wonder who I can talk to about organizing a ridazz self dense class. Would there be any takers in attending?
Now that I think about it more, the CA law is really about the use of DEADLY force to protect property. I think you are allowed to protect your property to the best of ability, you just can't KILL someone over it, or else you could face charges from the DA
BUT criminals can still sue you if you use excessive force. PROPORTIONAL force is key. as long as you feel your life is threatened.
Like with so-called 'citizens arrest'. If you catch someone committing a crime and you detain them and lets say you break their arm while holding them down, they can sue you for that even though they were doing something wrong. that's what a cop told me anyway
vigilante justice. = A vigilante is a person who ignores due process of law and enacts their own form of justice in response to a perception of insufficient response by the authorities.
The problem is that these criminals, once caught and incarcerated, tend to come back at you. Claiming you shot them with mace or pepper spray, which is a felony, while they were trying to steal your bike. They can bring you up on charges and sue you in civil court.
Which is why we have to walk these fine lines between what is legal and what could be a Felony.
Imagine a thief suing you and winning, then getting your bike in the settlement. Wouldn't that suck.
Being born and raised in the general downtown/echo park/glassell park area...I also agree with Eddie.
"I dunno officer, the guy was crazy, I was scared for my life, no one else was around to help me, I saw him reaching for something, he was threatening to eff me up."
All of that..use it.
disclaimer: that was not legal advice, just street advice.
duderina, wait till you take legal profession/ethics!
What I would like is for people who know LA well to post a list of areas to avoid. I just moved here in August and I know I've inadvertently turned down some streets I wish I had not turned onto!
So we have the snake pit which is north of sunset and coronado?
And remember everyone none of this is actual legal advice. It is just general discussions. If you really need a lawyer you should seek a licensed California attorney for a one-on-one consultation.
In CA you're allowed to use "reasonable" force in defense of property, and are allowed to use deadly force in on order to prevent death or serious bodily harm.
It's still a lot easier to avoid the problem to begin with. Pepper spray is cheap, it's legal as long as it's 2.5oz or less, and it's pretty darn effective.
That and a little common sense (ride in groups, be aware of your surroundings (helmet mirrors help), don't get wasted while riding, lock your bikes with U-locks / keep an eye on them, de-escalate confrontations when possible, keep your cell phone handy, etc., etc.) can really help keep the unpleasantness to a minimum.
That's the trick. "reasonable force". If someone is yanking your bike away, and it is slipping out of your hands...can you shoot him in the face with pepper spray? With all the surveillance cameras around the city, this guy or the cops could pull that footage and prove you used "disproportionate force" and committed a felony.
It's just a hypothetical, but it could happen.
What about a air horn blast in their face. Is that considered disproportionate force?
Don't worry too much about a thwarted thief suing you in civil court. The cops, the judge, the jury....they won't have sympathy for him.
As JB pointed out...it's about "reasonableness." Unfortunately, it's not always clear what "reasonable" exactly means. Prosecutors and Defense attorneys fight about it all the time.
Ultimately, it comes down to what 12 people in a jury box think is reasonable. It's always a question of fact for the jury. With some particular sets of facts, some attorneys are just not willing to gamble on what 12 strangers are going to think. That's why you see a lot of guilty pleas/dismissals in the criminal context...and a TON of settlements in the civil context.
Rule of thumb: Just don't kill anyone and try not to break any bones (or any other serious injury) if you don't have to.
@duderina
You don't need "disclaimers" every time you talk on the boards. I was just being facetious...kinda.
LOL. i grew up on coronado in between sunset and temple. never knew it as the snake pit. funny thing is, i still ride through there and have never had problems. but i think it's the fact that i feel comfortable there and don't really stick out. that and i don't really dress like a hipster. i honestly feel safer and more at home there than in glendale, burbank, or pasadena.
All this worrying about the thief coming after you with evidence of security cameras and what not is really really far fetched. Sure it could happen is some alternate universe with a warp in time parabola, but shit, what's the chances of anyone helping this dirt bag? I know! .......... None!
Just having your bike jacked it's hard to get copies of video tape from the looks of it.
WAKE UP ! pepper spray will get you in more trouble than it's worth. This is not the best for self defence. Law inforcement uses on people allready in custody. A asailant on angel dust or meth won't even be affected. It's a good way to get shot or beat down when you miss or the canistar fails you. Anything can be used as a weapon. but you can also be charged with ADW using anything, including U locks. I would rather take my chances with having a registared pistol concelled, a misdomeaner. Remember if you pull it out be prepared to use it. Your best weapon is your mind. be aware
ok, can I get specifics on this "Snake Pit" location. I tried to map quest this but nothing. Is it east/west of Alvarado? I wanna try to avoid the area.
seriously, no disrespect to anyone's hood. but my filipino and salvi friends who grew up in the rampart/echo park/temple corridor area said it was historically here and that it was pretty bad in the 90s:
Over at the Bus Bench blog, which covers a lot of transit issues did a small write up on this story and ubray's story of being drive by robbed. In the comments another person came forward and said that men also in a nissan sedan unarmed tried to rob him and his friend the same night but they fought back and made some noise and they gave up and drove off. It seems plausible this could potentially all be a string of related events.
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Ridazz Roulette!
Last night, at about 3:15 a.m., Ben and I decided to ride out from the toy ride after-party spot to the Pantry, to get some breakfast before catching the Gold Line home. We were riding single-file for no more than 20 minutes, when a car suddenly swerved and came to a halt at the curb in front of me. All four doors of the car flew open, and two guys came charging at me while yelling “Give us your fucking bike!” They grabbed my bike by the front wheel, then the handle bars, and I freaked out and jumped off my bike as they yanked it away. At this point, I wasn't sure if any of the four guys had a weapon on them. I saw that Ben had thrown his bike in the road and was physically fighting with the driver and front passenger in front of the car. I started to look for my phone in my backpack to call the cops. The two guys in the back were shoving my bike in the back seat of the car and trying to get in with it. It occurred to me that no one had a weapon, so I started trying to pull my bike back away from them. The two guys fighting with Ben jumped in the front of the car, and Ben came to the back and kicked in the tail light while I continued trying to pull my bike out. They drove off with the door still partially open.
yes. on spring st.
DO YOU REALIZE THAT BOTH BIKES THAT WERE STOLEN THIS WEEKEND ARE PREDOMINATELY 'RED' IN COLOR.
I dunno... somehow I think that if I held up my U-lock with fury, all I would get is some giggly thugs jacking my bike.
Natalie Portman is five inches shorter than Canadienne.