21801(A) CVC
Thread started by
braydon at 08.15.10 - 3:32 pm
So this happens to me rather frequently and it's infuriating, a driver turns left right in front of me, causing me to evade collision. I've been cited for violating 21801(a) CVC riding by bicycle before, which I am not guilty of. However, what can I do to make sure drivers get the same ticket, because it is life threatening!
This is the common scenario, I'm on my bicycle riding obeying all traffic laws, lights blinking, and traveling usually 20 to 30 miles an hour. A car going in the opposite direction turns left in front of me, causing me to evade collision. I have yet to collide with them, but one of these days there will be nothing I can do to avoid slamming into them, and seriously injuring myself and no harm to them but maybe a broken window and some dents in their one ton moving metal machine. They usually see me at the last minute, and sometimes they look like they don't give a damn, and other times they look really surprised. My usually reaction is to just ride on, after screaming at them.
Can I take their license plate and report it? If possible should I catch up to them and confront them? What to do?
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Carry a gun and and shoot at them, or slash their tires. Eventually they will learn they can only get us from behind.
revolution08.15.10 - 4:05 pm
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21801. (a) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left or to complete a U-turn upon a highway, or to turn left into public or private property, or an alley, shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles approaching from the opposite direction which are close enough to constitute a hazard at any time during the turning movement, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to the approaching vehicles until the left turn or U-turn can be made with reasonable safety.
Seems to me that CVC 21801(a) applies to the vehicle making the turn, not the vehicle proceeding through the intersection... I don't understand why this was cited.
angle08.15.10 - 4:05 pm
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Hi Braydon,
Unfortuately many motorists simply do not recognise cyclists as traffic and as a result do not look for them when they make their turns. The LAPD has instructed its officers to take action against any motorist that endangers cyclists.
An officer needs to observe the violation. While I can appreciate that a motorist turning in front of a cyclist is more dangerous than if it had been another car, no report can be taken for a traffic infraction after the fact.
I would discourage you from confronting the drivers as it would not be productive and could potentially escalate things.
I will be happy to answer any additional questions you may have.
I attempted to attach a copy of the instruction provided to our officers (twice) but my posting did not appear.
Sgt. David Krumer08.15.10 - 4:14 pm
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That accomplishes nothing. Where is the training? Or is the training to be more mindful?
revolution responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
08.15.10 - 4:41 pm
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The officers know the elements of the violation and no additional training is necessary. Issuing citations is discreationary...the order was intended to direct officers to actually take action rather than just drive by when they see a violation committed against a cyclist.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by revolution
08.15.10 - 4:44 pm
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Yeah I am not sure what this accomplishes for this in particular, unless there more officers as cyclists riding around on open streets at night, because otherwise they are likely never going to see this behavior from motorists, an infraction against 21801(A) V.C. to a cyclist.
braydon08.15.10 - 4:46 pm
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The LAPD is also working on a campaign with the Los Angeles County Bicycle Coalition, the Mayor's office, and Roadblock of Midnight Ridazz...designed to make motorists more aware of cyclists on the road. Additionally, we have some public service announcements in the works as well that are intended to educate motorists on their duty to share the road and be mindful of cyclists.
Unfortunately there will always be irresponcible users of the roadway that endager others.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by braydon
08.15.10 - 4:56 pm
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That all sounds like good public relations, however what is really going to bring "mindfulness of cyclists" is an increased number of cyclists on the streets. So we are not an anomaly that drivers do not pay attention to.
braydon responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
08.15.10 - 5:03 pm
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traveling usually 20 to 30 miles an hour
My Unsolicited advice.........slow down at intersections. You might be successful at getting them a traffic citation(not very likely), but that one time you actually collide (God willing it never happens) your world is going to be rocked something fierce. Better to avoid it at all cost. You go up against a car on a bicycle, on a physics scale you don't have much of a chance. I learned this the hard way, actually only collusions I ever had was because I was traveling to fast to avoid the collisions or stop in time to avoid them.
I'm actually lucky to be swiped by a cars back tire. The driver didn't even know and still thinks she didn't come in contact with me. That swipe at low speed taco'd my back wheel.
Ever since then I stay away from cars, I don't care how wrong their actions are, it can possibly end up in a nasty mess that I don't want any part of.
sexy08.15.10 - 9:19 pm
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Yeah you're right best to be totally defensive because we'll always loose to physics.
It's mostly at non major intersections, so slowing isn't so much an option, and open streets where you can gain speed, or down hill. It's happened to me on Sunset (in a bike lane), Venice (in a bike lane), Virgil, and Hoover. You can usually tell what they are doing, slowing down to turn, and I always think to myself, they had better not turn, and I try to look at them to see where the are looking if I can. I usually always preparing myself to be able to turn with them if I have to, and there is time.
braydon responding to a
comment by sexy
08.15.10 - 9:58 pm
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Sgt. David Krumer. I am curious what the vehicle codes listed in "Distribution "B"' are, can you post them?
braydon responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
08.15.10 - 10:57 pm
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Sure Braydon...you will note that 21801(a) VC is specifically mentioned.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by braydon
08.15.10 - 11:36 pm
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we can ride in a highway? :D
godmode responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
08.15.10 - 11:47 pm
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Since a car is making a left turn in front of you, I assume that there aren't any other cars in the street to your left (if you're in the bike lane). In this case, if it is safe to do so, I would move over into the middle of the right lane while you cross the intersection. You'll be a lot more visible, as, unfortunately, most motorists are simply not going to be paying attention to anything in the bike line. They're looking for cars. If you're in the travel lane and you've got a white headlight blazing day and night (sounds like you do), you will likely appear car-like enough to trigger the motorist's lizard-brain, "Don't go yet" response.
When I ride alone, I also often move into the right lane when I come to a red light, lining up with cars if there's traffic. I can easily keep up with cars in this situation, and I know that I won't get right hooked at the intersection.
angle responding to a
comment by braydon
08.16.10 - 12:08 am
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Those are very useful—thanks for keeping up with this thread, Sgt. Krumer.
Is it possible we could get a downloadable PDF file of those codes somewhere?
angle responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
08.16.10 - 12:15 am
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I had no idea that cyclists had rights to ride on sidewalks (due care exercised) or in crosswalks.
petr0lb0mb responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
08.16.10 - 1:37 am
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22517 - dont open your car doors if it is unsafe
nice
@ petro: first time I ever saw that too
nolikedrive responding to a
comment by petr0lb0mb
08.16.10 - 2:11 am
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Some drivers are just jerks and some are unattentive.
But having a front light that blasts at least 100 lumens helps sort out the assholes from those who can't see you or aren't paying much attention.
trickmilla08.16.10 - 7:01 am
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With the exception of a few specific areas you can ride on the sidewak in Los Angeles...other cities may restrict you. Also, in LA you do not have to dismount your bike in a crosswalk and CAN ride through.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by braydon
08.16.10 - 3:00 pm
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Be careful when referring to "Los Angeles" vis-a-vis sidewalk riding without any further clarification. LA City should be distinguished from LA County. The latter has many cities, and the laws are different. It's actually a pretty crazy patchwork as it applies to sidewalk riding.
LADOT's bike blog (yes, there is one--it's relatively new--and it's administered by a cool guy who I've met on rides, which is somewhat surprising given LADOT's past history re bikes) just did a three-part posting on sidewalk riding in this neck of the wood and the surrounding cities.
Here's a link to part two, which covers some of the neighboring areas. http://ladotbikeblog.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/la-county-sidewalk-riding-part1/
Part 1 was "City of LA" and Part 3 was the Valley and other municipalities.
dudeonabike responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
08.16.10 - 3:42 pm
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Yeah I totally agree with having a BRIGHT LIGHT. My flashlight I have mounted on my bike blasts at least 600Lumens and I'm often mistaken for a car or motorcycle by almost everyone.
I have yet to have problems turning on me, I tend to strobe my headlight by covering and uncovering it with my hand coming up to intersections so people notice me.
AestheticMynd08.18.10 - 5:02 am
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^--"problems with cars turning left on me." typo....
AestheticMynd08.18.10 - 5:03 am
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Saw someone with their car door open, they left it open "just for fun", right in a bike lane on Sunset a bit ago. So wack.
braydon responding to a
comment by nolikedrive
08.18.10 - 9:22 am
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Being Obnoxious really gets you noticed. Same concept in Advertising...
Also the Bike Lane issue, Did you know in Copenhagen the Bike lane and the Parking Lane is swapped?
So Riders ride between the parked car and side walks...
Lets see what will happen with this one. Since there's more cars on the road all drivers have to slow down while driving and watch for car doors opening on them. Also drivers need to pay attention before opening their car door. Otherwise they get their door smashed in by another car. I think that sounds a little more like fair game to me. LOL
However in all seriousness Isn't something like that viable here? Simple SWITCHING the Bike Lane and the Parking Lane? Also I've already checked (They also have Leftside Driver) not like other Euro countries.
AestheticMynd08.18.10 - 10:25 pm
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I saw a *cyclist* police officer that pulled over a *motorist* in downtown yesterday. First time I have seen, or at least noticed that, here in LA.
braydon08.19.10 - 6:52 pm
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*cyclist personnel in action
braydon08.19.10 - 6:53 pm
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