BE CAREFUL - DON'T SAY TOO MUCH
Thread started by
barleye at 10.21.09 - 9:44 am
quoting a sentence from the mandeville court case thread:
"Swarth is grilling him on stuff he posted about the incident to his cycling club's email list on Yahoo Groups."
I think we've all done it at one time or another....We say too much about something that can be used against us. Maybe re: drinking and riding, weed and riding, breaking bike laws, etc. ....the mandeville case is showing that attorney's will dig into web sites and forums for inconsistencies.
I keep telling people that the police are on top of it....they HAVE TO have someone on the force reading every thread here....we have HUGE bike rides in every part of town weekly causing havoc with traffic...if you think they're not looking here, you're out of your mind....
just be careful not to divulge too much info that could come back to bite you in the ass.....use common sense...
reply
Security culture is necessary in some proportions.
tivu10.21.09 - 10:00 am
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+1 million
I can say this, the prosecutor on this case is aware of the MR forums and even quoted a posting from the Mandeville court case thread during the arguments for pretrial motions. It was actually a favorable comment about the MR forum, but the judge moved on quickly to the bigger issue on the motion and the defense did not even have time to address it.
I'd also say avoid saying things that are inconsistent with statements you give to the authorities or testimony in court. Also avoid saying things are just obviously biased and inflammatory.
DJwheels10.21.09 - 10:03 am
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I do doubt the police are looking pro-actively at this site. I don't think they have the resources. Maybe after the fact if there was an investigation to a crime.
On the other hand, an attorney billing $350 an hour looking for an out for his client is another situation entirely. The defense very well could read through this site to uses something as you stated above in regards to saying the victim was in a state of mind that caused or provoked the defendant.
We do have plenty of experts on the many forums of bicycling and the differences in the types of rides that belong to this community that the DA could call as a witness. Riding with a cycling team up Mandaville Canyon is well known to everybody in the cycling community is a serious training ride not a party ride.
Anybody who knows anything about these rides know very well that a ride up Mandaville canyon could in no way involve any drinking or smoking. A ride of that magnitude requires a serious mindset, and extreme physical extrusion that involves a high level of stamina. Safety will be on the on the fore-front of the mind of any bicycle rider while on a road such as Mandaville Canyon.
sexy10.21.09 - 10:11 am
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it's takes 5 seconds to run a google query on the site by anyone at any time.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by sexy
10.21.09 - 10:35 am
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couldn't you get it thrown out as hearsay?
la duderina responding to a
comment by DJwheels
10.21.09 - 10:51 am
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i dont recall ever typing anything under this username... must have been someone else... even if they track my IP... it must be someone else here... Who is md2 anyway, that fool is wack, fuck him!
Nathan? Nathan who? I dont know nathan....
md210.21.09 - 11:00 am
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Yes the Internet is serious business. Every word you read holds the weight of the constitution of the united states and should be treated like the golden eagle. Words written here will be used against you in the NWO that snowcode is starting.
Foldie responding to a
comment by neverclever
10.21.09 - 11:31 am
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It depends. (...of course)
Hearsay is an out of court statement offered for the truth of the matter asserted. There are also a ton of exemptions and codified exceptions.
The first exemption is that the statement is NOT offered for the truth of the matter asserted. For example, you post something on this board that says, "John Doe is a douche bag." The statement cannot be admitted to show that Mr. Doe really is a douche-bag, but it can be admitted to explain your state of mind, that you're pissed off at Mr. Doe about something.
and why is the witness' state of mind relevant? Because it may show that the witnessed is biased, has a reason to lie, and essentially you can discredit a witness this way.
That's what the defense attempted yesterday in the Mandeville case with Patrick Watson. Of course the prosecution objected as hearsay, but the judge allowed the email to come in and gave the jury an instruction that they can ONLY use that evidence to explain his state of mind.
DJwheels responding to a
comment by la duderina
10.21.09 - 11:33 am
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a few examples:
a guy gets stabbed on crank mob and people know who it is or where he resides/rides/hangs out....they post it here re: attempted murder and not notify the police....that's serious shit.
some post about how fucked up they got and how they rode their bike. or pics of drinking in public or riding holding a beer, or the videos we post doing the same things...or asking advice about how to lie to have a citation dismissed....there are a lot of things we say "to each other" here on m.r. that could be used against us. luckily nobody's ever died or serious charges filed against anyone. but if something big goes down, you bet your ass what we have said about stuff will be used against us.
like i said, use common sense.
barleye responding to a
comment by Foldie
10.21.09 - 11:53 am
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yes, a DELETE POST option would make snowcone my hero.
la duderina10.21.09 - 11:56 am
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delete post is unnecessary. people should not post anything that incriminates anyone. if you post something self-incriminating, then you will be responsible for your words, and if you post something that incriminates someone else, and administrator can delete it (currently that's roadblock).
we need to remember this site is public and get in the habit of only saying things we feel comfortable saying in front of anyone.
snowcone responding to a
comment by la duderina
10.21.09 - 12:02 pm
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did you just reply to your own post? you are now my hero
vigilAnthony responding to a
comment by la duderina
10.21.09 - 12:03 pm
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I think a delete post is a good idea. wanting to delete a post doesn't always mean that it is automatically something incriminating that you want to remove. Typos, misinformation, improper punctuation (can't be having any of that now) are some examples.
vigilAnthony responding to a
comment by snowcone
10.21.09 - 12:09 pm
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damn prety soon this whole bike ride thng is goin to be burn hahaha to many lil kids doin dumb shet...
chunkylover0910.21.09 - 12:09 pm
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"Also avoid saying things are just obviously biased and inflammatory."
Uh, so we should shut down this forum?
Creative Thing responding to a
comment by DJwheels
10.21.09 - 12:10 pm
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think of posting to the forum like speaking
you can't go back in time and take back something you said or correct your grammar
just think BEFORE you post and don't rely on the ability to modify it later
snowcone responding to a
comment by vigilAnthony
10.21.09 - 12:12 pm
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oh yeah I forgot. why would you care? you just break the threads you don't like.
la duderina responding to a
comment by snowcone
10.21.09 - 12:13 pm
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this is the only forum I have ever participated in that doesn't allow you to at LEAST edit your posts so I hardly think something like that is "unnecessary".
la duderina10.21.09 - 12:15 pm
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back in the day... this was largely the reason many of the original organizers stepped down and brought this website to the world
I recall then... there was a lot of debate about responsibility. The cops were hassling the organizers by threatening to go after them for shit that goes down on the rides.
A lot of people talk as if these problems of MR as recent... but they have been going on since the shit got big. Now that there is a site to post pics of all the darling things we do... we'll fuck it...
its better than not letting the world (as RB would say), come here to see all the fun.
Even if something crazy goes down... they can try to corner the group as whole and twist this shit. But really, if some drunk kid does something stupid.... would they really be wrong to highlight the party on wheels? Seriously... IM just not sure what we're arguing about here.
Either way I'll still ride my bike with ya'll.... who ever I am
md2 responding to a
comment by barleye
10.21.09 - 12:15 pm
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No you can't go back in time, but words you speak also aren't recorded in a searchable database for anyone to go back and find if they want.
la duderina responding to a
comment by snowcone
10.21.09 - 12:16 pm
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As RBI would say, Irony Explosion here.
md2 responding to a
comment by snowcone
10.21.09 - 12:17 pm
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I think what snowcone is saying is, "I don't know how to do that."
la duderina10.21.09 - 12:17 pm
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I just say... dont run for office, CEO of a Fortune 500, or just dont try to do anything that will put you in the spotlight.
Just die happy and unknown... it wont make a difference when they pour 40oz in your memory.
md2 responding to a
comment by la duderina
10.21.09 - 12:19 pm
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HA! I guess you got me on that one.
Seriously though, if you're gonna post something about an incident that may end up somehow in the courts...you gotta be careful.
DJwheels responding to a
comment by Creative Thing
10.21.09 - 12:23 pm
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I agree. This is the only website I've encountered where you are unable to do so. I don't think it's asking too much. It might actually even help things. Giving people who post stupid shit the option to remove can be a good thing.
vigilAnthony responding to a
comment by la duderina
10.21.09 - 12:25 pm
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I think what he is saying. Is if u find your self to be a witness or somebody that needs to offer critical testimony in a bike vs. Car case. don't go around. Facebooking and emailblasting that you "hate cagers, motorheads, and dickead drivers". It may give the impression that u are against all drivers so your perception of the actions of a driver may be called into question.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Creative Thing
10.21.09 - 12:27 pm
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how can they prove that the username is actually you?
i mean anyone can make an aksendz account with no verification of who you are.
aksendz10.21.09 - 12:30 pm
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they could look at your IP address, see if you login from your computer and whatnot. find info you might have posted about yourself to link it to you like the fact that you work at that pinkberry or whatever..you know...
la duderina responding to a
comment by aksendz
10.21.09 - 12:35 pm
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and I get shit for anonymity.... I say... Im just a little ahead of the times.
It depends though...
shit its boring today... Im gonna eat some WTO burgers.
md2 responding to a
comment by la duderina
10.21.09 - 12:38 pm
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Chuckylvr53@yahoo.com
Apparently thats Homer Simpsons email address. :D
Oh and Bump!
Tarmonster.10.21.09 - 12:44 pm
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None of the cops up here read anything, much less the entire population here as well, so I could yammer all day and not face any repercussions.
bentstrider10.21.09 - 2:40 pm
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Wow... why exactly do you have access to the codebase, if you really believe this?
A vast majority of internet forums have delete and edit options for a reason: BECAUSE THEY'RE USEFUL. Considering such features unnecessary is both stubborn and foolish.
bananaphone responding to a
comment by snowcone
10.21.09 - 5:32 pm
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The problem with allowing deleting is that it can render replies meaningless.
marino responding to a
comment by bananaphone
10.21.09 - 6:17 pm
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because they're all asshole teachers who ride too fast?
coldcut responding to a
comment by bentstrider
10.21.09 - 6:40 pm
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I agree with marino.....
on another forum i used to post on, you were allowed to delete only until someone posted a reply after you.....after a reply, it's there for good.
barleye10.21.09 - 6:41 pm
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... because none of the replies here are ever meaningless.
at the very least, an edit option would be very nice to have when posting links or pictures goes awry.
vigilAnthony responding to a
comment by marino
10.21.09 - 6:43 pm
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most forums have a temporary period for editing posts like brad mentioned
they are usually based on a length of time from 30 seconds to 1 hour, however, this can ruin the continuity of the comments.
i'm thinking about some sort of preview feature, but it's going to take more time to figure out what will work best.
snowcone responding to a
comment by vigilAnthony
10.21.09 - 8:18 pm
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Yeah, Brad's right. Be careful about what you post. The US Attorney had a copy of
this thread in their evidence against me for holding an event on BLM land without a permit. I knew the instant I hit send that it would probably come back and bite me, and I was going to ask RB to delete the one post by me about the weekend but I never got around to it.
toweliesbong10.21.09 - 8:31 pm
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But regarding the bigger picture I would prefer no delete functionality here unless there is a very very very short time limit.
toweliesbong10.21.09 - 8:32 pm
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Count me as a +1 for a delete function. I don't believe that this forum exists to teach us to think before we speak. Just because I regret something I said for whatever reason (posted something too personal about myself, posted something too personal about someone else, posted something incriminating about the group) doesn't mean that I, anyone else, or the group should have to suffer the consequences . . . especially not so that I can learn a lesson. I think that even if the forum would get a little more complicated, a delete/edit function would be in everyone's best interest.
Team Creanberry responding to a
comment by toweliesbong
10.21.09 - 11:39 pm
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Yeah, but now I just do everything in my power to stay away from them.
I worked my work schedule to wear I'm working nights and such.
I also had myself relocated to the upper-campus of the high school I pull guard duty at, nothing but the district office and the maintenance yard up that way.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by coldcut
10.22.09 - 1:15 am
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life exists to teach us to think before we speak, and modifying or deleting a post will not allow you to take back something you have said. honestly, what is so bad about being responsible for what one says?
this is setting aside the challenges introduced by edit and delete options. almost all sites that support them employ either a temporary editing period or are heavily moderated and enforce a code of ethics.
snowcone responding to a
comment by Team Creanberry
10.22.09 - 3:16 am
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yeah, but what about all the good times we have making fun of peoples half-baked posts? where's the accountability, snowcone? where's the accountability? this isnt LA Fixed and there's no crying in baseball.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by snowcone
10.22.09 - 4:30 am
reply
although, i do agree with being able to easily delete posts for security reasons. plus, it would be one less thing or RB to occasionally have to do.
tortuga_veloce10.22.09 - 4:31 am
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You have got to be kidding. Tell me you are kidding? How would the BLM even
know about this site let alone what your handle is and your post?
Roadblock responding to a
comment by toweliesbong
10.22.09 - 5:10 am
reply
Right, LIFE exists to teach us to think before we speak, not this forum. It's the fact that the posts never go away that really bothers me. I'd be perfectly happy if there was an expiration date on all threads, like if there are no new posts after 6 months, that thread disappears. Things can come back to bite you in the butt in REALLY unexpected ways. In other words, just because I think before I write something doesn't mean that it won't end up hurting me or someone else, months or years later, in a way that I never could have predicted.
What's so bad about being responsible for what one says?
Well, shoot, what's so bad about a delete function? Or posts that don't last for decades? I would like to be able to post without having to think about how something might be used against me or someone else, well into the future. This is exactly the reason why I don't participate in social networking sites, but I sure would like to be able to post on this forum without concern that everything I say will be searchable by anyone at any time for all eternity.
Team Creanberry responding to a
comment by snowcone
10.22.09 - 8:57 am
reply
They must have searched for the r2rrrr poker ride, the don't know I'm toweliesbong but they pointed to that post as proving it was an "event". They also had some emails that were archived from an OpenBSD list that I rarely posted to where I had forgotten to remove the 2nd Ann Poker Ride from my signature. They pointed to that as promotion.
They even subpoenaed my rental truck agreement!!! Ridiculous waste of resources. The ranger said he probably wouldn't have stopped if he hadn't seen the Ryder truck. To them rental truck means rave or something. If I'd just rented a motorhome instead I think I would have been fine.
toweliesbong responding to a
comment by Roadblock
10.22.09 - 11:23 am
reply
shit... all this time I thought Life didnt exist...
Life exists?
If it has taught me anything... its that some have a lot on their mind but dont have the freedoms, means, or tools to get their message across. That in real life, the best message is drowned out by balloon boy and hot chicks.
Which reminds me.... *google image search*...
Ill be back
md2 responding to a
comment by Team Creanberry
10.22.09 - 11:36 am
reply
even if you have a delete function, the original post could be preserved on google, the internet archive, or other places. a good investigator can can find that stuff. and then it's even worse.
and it's not like MR is hard to find, if you google "los angeles bike rides" MR is the #2 link.
stevestevesteve10.22.09 - 1:28 pm
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Having a delete function is dum. Like my gf Marino said, it screws up the whole thread and you'll lose coherencies in the thread. And you really think the delete button would just be used for protecting someone's privacy? ppallezzz, that thing would be so missed used and abused that it would render the threads useless.
I would just like to see a preview window so we can see how our posts would look before posting. I can live with what I post.
User1 responding to a
comment by stevestevesteve
10.22.09 - 1:38 pm
reply
adding a preview function is a great way of solving some problems without introducing new ones. i'm all for previews.
snowcone responding to a
comment by User1
10.22.09 - 1:48 pm
reply
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/10/exclusive-us-spies-buy-stake-in-twitter-blog-monitoring-firm/ [www.wired.com] »
U.S. Spies Buy Stake in Firm That Monitors Blogs, Tweets
In-Q-Tel, the investment arm of the CIA and the wider intelligence community, is putting cash into Visible Technologies, a software firm that specializes in monitoring social media. It’s part of a larger movement within the spy services to get better at using ”open source intelligence” — information that’s publicly available, but often hidden in the flood of TV shows, newspaper articles, blog posts, online videos and radio reports generated every day.
Visible crawls over half a million web 2.0 sites a day, scraping more than a million posts and conversations taking place on blogs, online forums, Flickr, YouTube, Twitter and Amazon. (It doesn’t touch closed social networks, like Facebook, at the moment.) Customers get customized, real-time feeds of what’s being said on these sites, based on a series of keywords.
“That’s kind of the basic step — get in and monitor,” says company senior vice president Blake Cahill.
ruinedbyidiots10.22.09 - 2:08 pm
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_1256245803.jpg)
you should always assume that all electronic communication is being monitored.
spiraldemon responding to a
comment by ruinedbyidiots
10.22.09 - 2:10 pm
reply
your preview window is the box i'm writing in at this moment...read what you are writing then hit "post reply". no need for anything else.
barleye responding to a
comment by ruinedbyidiots
10.22.09 - 2:11 pm
reply
preview is useful for formatting or embedding videos or images
it's not necessary for plain text
snowcone responding to a
comment by barleye
10.22.09 - 2:17 pm
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Im still trying to understand how the "delete" option threatens coherency.
Is the claim that without a delete option, the threads and posts make sense?
md210.22.09 - 2:22 pm
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imagine if everyone deleted the posts before yours right now... yours would make no sense
imagine if you quoted another poster and then that person deleted the post... the quote would still be there
none of these issues are new, and that's why many forums do not allow people to delete or edit posts, and the ones that do either have a time limit or have moderators making sure the privilege is not abused.
snowcone responding to a
comment by md2
10.22.09 - 2:28 pm
reply
are you being serious?
threads get off topic by a single post sometimes...if that one post is deleted, each reply following it will have no reference point...
barleye responding to a
comment by md2
10.22.09 - 2:30 pm
reply
um, yeah, it was a joke...
as in the threads/posts dont make sense anyway.
never mind.... just delete my post
md2 responding to a
comment by barleye
10.22.09 - 2:51 pm
reply
having the option to delete a post doesn't mean that everyone is going to be using it after every post and i highly doubt that anyone will be losing any sleep over a thread with a missing post in it.
vigilAnthony10.22.09 - 3:08 pm
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agreed and agreed
User1 responding to a
comment by vigilAnthony
10.22.09 - 3:15 pm
reply
Preview would be awesome. I used to log in to my LA Fixed acct to preview shit.
I still say no to delete.
toweliesbong responding to a
comment by snowcone
10.22.09 - 3:18 pm
reply
HA..i skimmed it...i didn't see the second line of your post.
barleye responding to a
comment by md2
10.22.09 - 4:08 pm
reply
The point is is that people will post even more inflammatory stuff then now, wait a couple of minutes waiting for their target to see it, then they delete their shit, and their target ends up looking like a fool. It happens all the time on unmoderated forums where people are allowed to delete.
toweliesbong responding to a
comment by vigilAnthony
10.22.09 - 4:19 pm
reply
how about a "sorry" button then
md2 responding to a
comment by toweliesbong
10.22.09 - 4:21 pm
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IF WE GET A SORRY BUTTON, THEN WE NEED A BLOW ME BUTTON.
barleye responding to a
comment by md2
10.22.09 - 4:25 pm
reply
maybe its a stretch, but how about a threesome button
md2 responding to a
comment by barleye
10.22.09 - 4:28 pm
reply
ECHELON is watching you.
2074u32lewjfwore9u12jerfwjwru320pqoirjfew.auf3pwlfsd
la duderina10.22.09 - 4:32 pm
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BUTT CRACK SMACK YOUR BACK THIS IS WHACK JACK
la duderina10.22.09 - 4:36 pm
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I think you're giving some people too much credit
vigilAnthony responding to a
comment by toweliesbong
10.22.09 - 5:29 pm
reply
Yes to preview, no to delete. Preview gives you another chance to think about what you're saying and to make sure your HTML is OK.
While there rare circumstances under which posts should be deleted, I don't believe in making it easy to do so. In extraordinary cases, one could contact the site administrator and make a case for deleting a post.
While I'm sure I've said stupid, embarrassing or regrettable things here, I try to operate on the principle of not writing anything I wouldn't say to someones face and not hiding behind a secret identity.
mr rollers responding to a
comment by toweliesbong
10.22.09 - 6:18 pm
reply
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