If you're in favor of national healthcare, you might not be in favor of Whole Foods.
Thread started by
JB at 08.13.09 - 10:46 am
http://www.americablog.com/2009/08/whole-foods-comes-out-against-health.html
Thursday, August 13, 2009
Whole Foods comes out against health care reform, calls it "socialism"
by John Aravosis (DC) on 8/13/2009 08:40:00 AM
The CEO of Whole Foods, John Mackey, just penned an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal. It sounds like something written by Dick Armey with the help of Sarah Palin and the teabag brigade. I am absolutely shocked. Joe, an avid Whole Foods shopper, up until this morning, is absolutely devastated.
Read this opinion piece. It's not just someone who disagrees with President Obama about the details of health care reform. It reads like someone who is a conservative Republican activist. I'd highly suggest you share this article with your progressive friends who, like Joe and me, have for far too long been under the mistaken assumption that Whole Foods was a "good" company. Apparently they're one of the worst out there. Not just agnostic on doing good, but affirmatively trying to stop good from happening.
When you go to Whole Foods you are bankrolling the conservative Republican effort to kill health care reform and to label Democratic presidents and Democratic values "socialist." The CEO of Whole Foods thinks you're a socialist. It's time to stop giving him your money.
Whole Foods' co-founder and CEO opens the piece by quoting Margaret Thatcher, in an effort, apparently, to label President Obama's health care plan as "socialism:
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
Then, Mackey implicitly criticizes the stimulus bill (by harping on the deficit), calls health care reform "an entitlement," and suggests that health care reform would be some kind of "government takeover" - all GOP talking points:
With a projected $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009, several trillions more in deficits projected over the next decade, and with both Medicare and Social Security entitlement spending about to ratchet up several notches over the next 15 years as Baby Boomers become eligible for both, we are rapidly running out of other people's money. These deficits are simply not sustainable. They are either going to result in unprecedented new taxes and inflation, or they will bankrupt us.
While we clearly need health-care reform, the last thing our country needs is a massive new health-care entitlement that will create hundreds of billions of dollars of new unfunded deficits and move us much closer to a government takeover of our health-care system. Instead, we should be trying to achieve reforms by moving in the opposite direction—toward less government control and more individual empowerment. Here are eight reforms that would greatly lower the cost of health care for everyone...
Like a good teabagger, he's accusing Canada and the UK, and I guess France and every other "socialized" country of "rationing":
Even in countries like Canada and the U.K., there is no intrinsic right to health care. Rather, citizens in these countries are told by government bureaucrats what health-care treatments they are eligible to receive and when they can receive them. All countries with socialized medicine ration health care by forcing their citizens to wait in lines to receive scarce treatments.
Oh dear God. He's actually arguing that most diseases and health care problems wouldn't happen if we all simply ate our vegetables:
Recent scientific and medical evidence shows that a diet consisting of foods that are plant-based, nutrient dense and low-fat will help prevent and often reverse most degenerative diseases that kill us and are expensive to treat. We should be able to live largely disease-free lives until we are well into our 90s and even past 100 years of age.
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I'm already not in favor of Whole Foods with their over priced yuppie food.
Food 4 Less FTW
All countries with socialized medicine ration health care by forcing their citizens to wait in lines to receive scarce treatments.
LIIIIEEESSS!!!!!!!!!!!
la duderina08.13.09 - 10:57 am
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I'm on the fence with this issue, but I squarely place the blame of poor medical care in our country on all the legality involved and all the complicated steps to getting people into medical school nowadays.
When you look at the mountains of paperwork required for doctors and then all the shit one must prepare for to get their foot in the door of medical education, it's all enough to just make one say, "fuck it."
First steps towards improved healthcare in our country should include letting doctors do their jobs without legal recourse, and also ensuring a healthy ratio of doctors to patients.
My two Lincolns.
bentstrider08.13.09 - 10:58 am
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Doctors have plenty of legal protections from frivolous lawsuits nowadays. The fault lies with those who saw dollar signs in the eyes of sick people.
la duderina responding to a
comment by bentstrider
08.13.09 - 11:00 am
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You talking about those lawyers who preyed on patients that were too vulnerable for their own good?
Or doctors who ditch general practicioning and decide to go into research or shit like plastic surgery?
bentstrider responding to a
comment by la duderina
08.13.09 - 1:08 pm
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I agree with you. Doctors need to just be allowed to do their job. They whole medical system actually needs to be blown up and restarted from scratch basically.
hybrid rida responding to a
comment by bentstrider
08.13.09 - 1:24 pm
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of course whole foods is against public healthcare. they're a non-union supermarket. their earth-friendly, fair trade marketing is all carefully weighed and balanced against the winds of public opinion. like every company, theyre in the business of image management.
i did a little research on the history of canada's (socialist) healthcare system. it's amazing how similar the canadian debate of the 1950's was to the one we're having today. first, sascatchuan introduced single payer, and a bunch of doctors flipped out. some even left the province, but most stayed because staying in their communities was more important than money. when the nation adopted single payer, some doctors left for the US, but most stayed.
now the argument is that american doctors will leave the country, but where else do they have to go? are you really telling me that american doctors are going to flee to mexico so that they can avoid a public OPTION? give me a break.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by la duderina
08.13.09 - 1:29 pm
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Whatever happened to the "country doctor"?
Obviously, the lack of doctors will always affect us and it doesn't really help matters much when you factor our education system into the mix.
Seems like all the major medical schools are far out of reach for most people located in the neglected "flyover states" and when selectees have to travel out of the area to be educated, they gradually lose interest in ever wanting to return.
But I don't want to turn this into an urban vs. rural scenario, so I'll stop right there.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by hybrid rida
08.13.09 - 1:30 pm
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sounds like a job for federal incentives! how about a federal program to give doctors financial assistance with student loans in exchange for practising in rural areas?
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by bentstrider
08.13.09 - 1:31 pm
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You know, an "On-The-Job" training thing where an apprentice stays on with a practicing doctor for 10-15 years would also do the trick.
I'll probably get alot of heat for this, but whenever I read college degree requirements, it seems more and more emphasis is being placed on classes outside your regular course of study.
Being rounded is one thing, but being required to be versed in every single subject is overkill.
Henceforth the reason why my college years have been partially non-existent.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
08.13.09 - 1:40 pm
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i'm sure there will be nurse practitioners that will step to the plate when doctors won't want to do family practice. i wouldn't mind at all as i've have great experiences with NPs. they look and treat their patients as a whole rather just than treating symptoms.
sciencefriction08.13.09 - 1:45 pm
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Maybe we'll all get lucky and they'll just create medical drones.
That pie-in-the-sky of an idea will teach those MD's that punk out to research and trivial shit like boob, nose and genitalia enhancements.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by sciencefriction
08.13.09 - 7:35 pm
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FUCK WHOLE FOODS.....haven't shopped there in about 3-4 months. Won't give those A-holes my money.....stop shopping there when they came out as lead organizers against the employee free choice act along with , COSTCO and STARBUCKS
BOO WHOLE FOODS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will eating a good plant base diet help me if I get hit by a whole foods delivery truck delivery organic vegetables?
sexy08.13.09 - 7:49 pm
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Stick to the farmers market, they deliver the goods from the Fat of the Land.
To think if I had enough land I could make some good preserves off of.
Smokehouse, cannery, tannery and all!!!
bentstrider responding to a
comment by sexy
08.13.09 - 8:40 pm
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fuck people that think health care reform is socialism.
monovsstereo08.14.09 - 8:53 am
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neither. I'm talking about the people who own all of the for-profit health insurance companies.
la duderina responding to a
comment by bentstrider
08.14.09 - 10:42 am
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the current health care system in the us is shit, but universal health care will be just as bad. there is no way we could afford to treat everyone's health problems. it's just not possible to come up with an ideal health care system. especially with the shitty doctors of this country. we not only need to start from scratch with the health care system, but we need to rethink the process of becoming a doctor.
snowcone08.14.09 - 10:50 am
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if we stop pouring money into Iraq and our military, every single person in this country could have the best medical care in the world. Don't fall for the anti-universal health care propaganda. It works. We can afford it. Medicare works just fine.
Besides it wouldn't be universal health care...it's a "public option"...people who want to pay companies who make a profit off of their sicknesses can still do so.
It's amazing how little people understand...my favorite was a person who stood up in a meeting about the public option and said something along the lines of "I don't want government-run health care and don't you touch my medicare." Moron.
Congresspeople have the best healthcare coverage out of everyone in the US, besides the P of course, and it is government run. So why should we be paying to give our elected officials top notch health care while we get nada? Fuck that. I'm a fucking human being, too. I can accept large amounts of money from corporations and have already broke citizens pay my salary, too!
la duderina responding to a
comment by snowcone
08.14.09 - 11:02 am
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Mackey's right! Fat people are killing our health care system.
Unfortunately many of our health-care problems are self-inflicted: two-thirds of Americans are now overweight and one-third are obese. Most of the diseases that kill us and account for about 70% of all health-care spending—heart disease, cancer, stroke, diabetes and obesity—are mostly preventable through proper diet, exercise, not smoking, minimal alcohol consumption and other healthy lifestyle choices.
This needs to be emphasized when we argue for more bike infrastructure. I hardly ever hear anyone make this point. They just say "it's healthier than driving a car", or something like that.
User108.14.09 - 11:37 am
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I've said it a thousand times... but I'll say it again...
Canada's got it right. I lived there for 23 years, and received incredible and thorough health care. It was FREE in the sense that my taxes went towards the SOCIAL SECURITY (in the literal sense) of me and every other resident of Ontario, rather than going to... whatever the hell the shitload of taxes I'm paying here go to...
And I still don't understand all this talk about "long waiting lines". I've never waited for medical attention in Canada, and I've had my fair share of it (broken arms, head trauma, infections, torn ligaments, therapy for scoliosis... etc. etc.) In a non emergency situation, you may have to wait a month to get an appointment with the specialist you want to see... but you have to do that here too... so...
The thing I hate most about living in the U.S. is living with the realization that if things take a turn for the worse, if you're broke, lose your job, or whatever... and you get hurt, you're fucked. Unless you have somebody to personally take care of you when things go wrong, you're fucked. Your government will not take care of you. One big accident can send you into debt for the rest of your life.
And what if you or a family member needs to be hospitalized? You have enough to worry about. Worrying about how much it's costing... that just seems completely fucked up.
I never paid a cent for a doctor until I moved here... now any time I need so much as a check-up it's $40 out of my pocket (EVEN WITH INSURANCE!), plus any "lab fees", regardless of the $1500 of taxes I pay each month. Seriously. WTF?!
I've also never experience an incorrect diagnosis and wrong prescription until I moved here... but that's a whole other tangent...
canadienne08.14.09 - 11:45 am
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...damn... sorry to get so riled up.
Maybe I should just go back... It's not like I enjoy my field of work anyway...
canadienne08.14.09 - 11:52 am
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+million billion
the people who cry that Obama Care is introducing euthanasia for elderly and infirm, or that it's socialism, are ignorant, to be sure, but they are right about one thing; americans are about to be screwed on health care reform by the president and the democratic congress, just as they've been screwed by them on financial system "reform."
asparagus responding to a
comment by canadienne
08.14.09 - 11:57 am
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Well, see this is the other thing that I like about Canada: They TAX THE SHIT OUT OF CIGARETTES. I know that 3 years ago, a pack of cigarettes cost $10... it's probably more now. It makes sense. If you're going to live a particularly unhealthy lifestyle, and strain the public health care system with your cancer treatments, you can chip in along the way.
In my opinion, fast food should have a similar tax on it.
canadienne responding to a
comment by User1
08.14.09 - 11:59 am
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Canada's health care system is about 50 years old... that's a little over half the life of a single person. You can't use such a relatively young system to decide what works and what doesn't.
When canada's health care system is 500 years old and still operating effectively, then i will agree with you.
people need motivation to live healthy when it's up to them.
smoking, excessive drinking, excessive eating, drugs, etc.... so self inflicted health problems maybe shouldn't be covered. but anyway.... finding a good health care system is going to be a LONG and painful process. i will probably be dead before we get anything decent.
snowcone08.14.09 - 12:20 pm
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@duderina
exactly. it's a public option. this is still free-market. in fact, Obama's proposed plan is little more than free market regulation and increased competition.
@user1
in canada, issues such as obesity and smoking are viewed from the perspective that the poor choices of citizens raise our taxes. in the US, industry lobbyists from fast food, sugar and tobacco industries win every time and at the expense of our collective health.
@canadienne
canada does have it right. they have a vibrant economy, and are able to attract all the businesses that the US is losing. so much for that argument.
im starting Midnight Ridazz Vancouver, so now you have one more reason to move back.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by la duderina
08.14.09 - 12:35 pm
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I've been sayin it for years, but I'll give it one more turn o' the stern:
eff wholefoods
Eric Hair08.14.09 - 12:40 pm
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in canada, issues such as obesity and smoking are viewed from the perspective that the poor choices of citizens raise our taxes. in the US, industry lobbyists from fast food, sugar and tobacco industries win every time and at the expense of our collective health.
Poodle, don't you mean the corn industry?
User1 responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
08.14.09 - 12:42 pm
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i'm a big fan of the farmers markets. the farmers keep more of the money, the food is cheaper and fresher and you get a better connection with where your food is coming from.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by Eric Hair
08.14.09 - 12:43 pm
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you're absolutely correct, although when i think of "sugar" the first thing i usually think of is "high fructose corn syrup." now if you want to talk about lobbying contributing to obesity, look no further than america's favorite food additive!
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by User1
08.14.09 - 12:48 pm
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...damn... sorry to get so riled up.
Maybe I should just go back... It's not like I enjoy my field of work anyway...
canadienne
Don't be sorry......I love the first hand account of your experience.....and yes you have a say around here. Your paying USA taxes, so why shouldn't you!
No don't go, we love and you'll probably end up taking that polite hippy troll back with you if you do, and we can't have that.
Regarding overtaxing cigs.......the increase in taxes caused a huge black market problem up in Canada (I don't know if you where knowledgeable of that situation or not. I'm surprise we are not seeing it more black market action in the states....or maybe we don't hear about it...........I know a cigarette stores where getting burglarized heavily after Meathead Rob Reiner's tax initiatives passed in California years back)
sexy responding to a
comment by canadienne
08.14.09 - 12:54 pm
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nothing's ever going to be perfect. but it can at least be better.
the Environmental Protection Agency was formed in 1972.
Is it perfect? Of course not.
But can we imagine life drinking hexavalent chromium, spraying our backyards wtih DDT, and painting our homes with lead based paint,?
of course not, because these are benefits most of us have had all our lives. most people from other industrialized countries can say the same thing about healthcare.
sciencefriction responding to a
comment by snowcone
08.14.09 - 12:54 pm
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awww sexy... you are so sweet.
In reality, I can't go back... because of I'm way too in love with all of you. It's true. If it weren't for all the amazing people I've met here, I'd be long gone.
I was unaware of the black market cigs. But then again, though I've known many many smokers, they weren't really the black market type... I'm not ashamed of my somewhat sheltered suburban upbringing.
I know that black market guns are popular there... since they're hard to attain otherwise. But even so, I don't know anyone personally who had a gun. (minus my friend's dad who was a hunter).
canadienne responding to a
comment by sexy
08.14.09 - 1:06 pm
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fuck you, plain and simple
you are a dumb piece of shit... just because you agree with people doesn't mean you know shit... you all are just in a circle jerk, not really concerned with any of the issues, just about pumping up each others' egos
snowcone responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
08.14.09 - 1:49 pm
reply
snowcone,
going back to your last post, you stated that you couldnt judge canada's healthcare system by its first 50 years, which have been extremely successful. then you stated that the US system will not provide decent healthcare within your lifetime (roughly 50 years).
why won't the US system work as well as the canadian system? you're using two different standards of comparison.
(and i'm sorry for calling you names.)
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by snowcone
08.14.09 - 1:53 pm
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i said that we won't have a decent system put into place before i die because there is so much bullshit involved with health care in this country which will impede progress including powerful lobbyists among a host of other challenges
that has nothing to do with determining if a system is successful or not. it just has to do with how difficult it is for any good change to come about in this country.
snowcone responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
08.14.09 - 2:02 pm
reply
Well, I guess they got us both backed into the corner on this one.
However, I'll definitely agree with you on the education process as far as becoming a doctor.
The main reason why I see this plan as being unfeasible at the moment is due to the low numbers of doctors currently available.
In case someone didn't know, the length of time to process a medical school app alone could take months, or years with the numbers they have to deal with.
Couple that with the fact that the amount of medical schools in this country is relatively low and out-of-place for those living in rural areas and you're looking at a serious bottleneck when it comes to meeting the supply requirements.
Then there were the degree requirement problems I mentioned in the other post, but I'll keep it from going any further off the track.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by snowcone
08.14.09 - 2:03 pm
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the difficulty of becoming a doctor is part of the reason why the cost is so high, however, this difficulty doesn't result in better doctors.
snowcone responding to a
comment by bentstrider
08.14.09 - 2:45 pm
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Becoming a better doctor takes time and experience.
Get the student the initial training done in the alotted timeframe(it should be max, 5-7 years of preselected courses for a basic MD) and OJT the rest of the training as continuing education.
If anything, they should do like the trucking companies and offer tuition-free training to low-income students with good scores.
As part of the agreement, the newly graduated doctor will serve the typical residency in areas where the need is the highest, pretty much everywhere.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by snowcone
08.14.09 - 2:57 pm
reply
Healthcare? Read between the lines people. The money is in the treatment and the medication that follows that treatment.
Look around you, we're controlled by the healthcare system in ways you don't even know. Every ailment has a prescription, Can't see straight, take this, can't walk straight, take that, can't fuck for longer than 30 seconds, take one of these. That's 98% of your healthcare right there. Oh and don't forget all those yummy vitamins you take that are created by the same companies that make? Yep, the medicine.
Now here's something even deeper than that. Cure cancer, arguably one of the top medical issues in the world and you will have in essence done the following:
Closed hospital wings, put millions out of work, shut down countless medicine companies, delivery companies, pharmacists', doctors, nurses, my goodness I could go on.
Can anyone see beyond the Health care reform smoke screen with all the Hollywood special effects? I sure as hell can't.
ridetime08.14.09 - 4:19 pm
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On another issue, I could see shit healthcare being a front for the proliferation of slow-acting, population control.
As grim as it sounds, the lack of doctors, medications that don't do jack, and the concept of "hurry-up and wait" all result in poor treatment.
This poor treatment eventually leading to death and/or permanent bed-riddence for some.
If anything, there's definitely one industry that will always be benefiting from this foot-dragging, the mortuary industry.
Again, not trying to incite a flame, but that's just another way I'm seeing things.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by ridetime
08.14.09 - 4:32 pm
reply
Canada's health care system is about 50 years old... that's a little over half the life of a single person. You can't use such a relatively young system to decide what works and what doesn't.
Well our own health care system is relatively the same age as Canada's and it is falling apart while Canada's is not. So hmmm, I wonder which one works?
la duderina responding to a
comment by snowcone
08.14.09 - 4:49 pm
reply
We'll never have a proper health care system until it is entirely non-profit. Things are never going to change because people make way too much money off of keeping us sick..
la duderina responding to a
comment by ridetime
08.14.09 - 4:50 pm
reply
Oh man, we've managed to make way too much sense. I sure hope the feds don't knock on my door at 3 in the morning.
ridetime responding to a
comment by la duderina
08.14.09 - 5:51 pm
reply
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