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Thread started by
trekkie at 08.20.07 - 7:41 pm
At the risk of being shot down in flames...
From my recent experiences on rides, and after reading about the incidents that occurred on the clown ride, I can't help but think that maybe it's a good time to revisit the ideas under the "about the ridazz" section on this site, particularly under "What Midnight Ridazz is NOT":
-Mean Spirited
-Political
-Commercialized
-Non-inclusive
-Abrasive
-Protest
I just think that the general reputation of Midnight Ridazz seems to be straying from the above core ideas. Motorists are increasingly annoyed and/or pissed off, people on rides are being mean spirited, non-inclusive, and worst of all abrasive, when asked by people "what's going on?"
I'm not going to say that there's "something wrong" w/ MIdnight Ridazz...I still have a great time going out on the rides, and I think maybe the bad apples ruin it for the rest, but I also don't think it hurts to just take a moment and look at what's happening, especially the situation w/ motorist confrontations. It's been said a billion times, but the last thing we want is for there to be any bad feelings between drivers and cyclists...
I don't want to be one of those guys that cries foul and then doesn't offer up any suggestions, so...The best thing I can come up with so far is...a Midnight Ridazz "Love the Cars" ride? Maybe sort of an "awareness" focused ride with fliers for motorists.
I know that people are going to scream up and down that Ridazz aint political, ridazz should own their own actions, yadda yadda...but guess what? LIke it or not, Ridazz has become the de facto cyclist political movement in L.A. Even if that's not what it is, that's how people see the group...It has inherited the position just by the mere fact that it's the most VISIBLE and famous/infamous group in L.A.
So we might as well embrace that instead of ignoring it.
I'd like to see what everyone else thinks...and suggestions too. If I'm way off the mark here (I don't think I am), let me know.
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I completely agree with you, but I'd say the sea change took place about two and a half years ago. I've been going since ride number two. I used to really enjoy getting to talk to each and every person on the ride. As you pointed out, now it's essentially a 'bring your own drunk clique' event and from my POV, that's what it became more than two years ago. Nothing wrong with that, but that's been my experience.
Also, I'd say motorists have been rightfully pissed off and that people have been doing incredibly stupid things (littering, being confrontational with cars and other riders, etc.) for quite a while.
Yeah, I'd say eventually someone will die on this ride or there will be a gigantic wreck and that will be that. It just seems like an inevitability given how many people do the rides and how recklessly and drunkenly the group interacts with motorists.
Also, I'd say the bigger problem here is that bad behavior on a ridazz ride makes the solo cyclist out on the road without 1,000 people surrounding him/her more prone to car rage. Piss off a car and they'll get someone back at a later time and date when a brave corker isn't standing there.
TTFN, Bruce
Bruce Steel08.20.07 - 8:43 pm
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Your right, there is something wrong with Midnight Ridazz. Its me, I'm guilty,
I'm at least half of those things that ridazz is not.
The other half is open to argument.
I'll do the ride, the image, the interpretation with the motorist, and the general feel of this whole thing a favor,
I'm out. I won't cause any more bad feeling with anybody else on this board, or on the rides.
I Surrender.....
"Love The Cars" ride! I'm really out now.
If you want to see this old ex-rider around you have to go over to one of the Critical Mass rides, or that crazy "SpokeN'Dissent" ride.
Sorry, for all the problems I have caused in the past. (Roadblock, could you remove my profile from this) I don't want to bring any more shame to the Ridazz ;(
sexy08.20.07 - 8:50 pm
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First of all we were already discussing this after the clown ride. Search "Making improvements". Funny, no one suggested declawing MR. I have a better idea, instead of declawing MR how bout finding a ride or a group that more appeals to your sensibility? If you're having trouble finding them, I'm sure there's plenty here that can lead in the right direction.
I've seen declawed rides and let me tell ya, it ain't pretty!
And personally I don't know who you are and I don't know if I've met you or not. So I take what you say with a bit more caution and alot more suspicion.
Oh and I'm a bit bummed out that Critical Mass has lost its' throne as the degenerate ride. Looks like we're going to have to try harder!
User108.20.07 - 9:39 pm
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What does "declawing MR" even mean?
trekkie08.21.07 - 12:25 am
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User1 + Sexy,
Are you guys saying that it wouldn't be any fun if the rides lacked meanness, exclusion, abrasiveness, and fights with motorists?
I mean, I think the rides are super fun now - I'm still planning on showing up to as many as I can...I just don't see how they would be LESS fun if people were nice.
trekkie08.21.07 - 12:42 am
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I think they are TIRED of this topic. I know I am. We can't control the individual actions of stupid people. 99.9% of those idiots that cause the problems don't read these forums, and they sure as hell aren't people with any common sense.
Feel free to make those fliers and organize your "Motorists are people too" ride. No one will stop you. Oh, I'd also schedule it on a Monday, during the day. When there are a lot of cars on the road.
the reverend dak08.21.07 - 1:38 am
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it has been brought to my attention that you have placed a note on this bulletine board stating User1 + Sexy,
this is not true, User1 and Sexy are not a couple, we are not together.
Please refrain from posting such slander about us. For the record "Sexy" name can only be used with Enzo Gucci when making the + sign. Although, Enzo and I are not a couple either, I will not accept you putting +sign between mine and anyones name , accept Mr. Gucci.
To answer your question, YES, I mean No, I mean Yes
You really don't know what it means to 'declaw MR'? That makes two of us.
sexy08.21.07 - 1:41 am
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But, ok. All sarcasm aside. The rides are doing fine. And it's a good sign, a good thing when people come forward with their concerns. It's especially refreshing to see new faces (or user names.) But this topic has been covered, many times. I realize they are buried within this forum, but the topic has been address privately between some of the original organizers, and lots of what was learned has been passed along. It's been concluded that we can't control the idiots, and we can't control the behavior of motorists. It's up to us to police ourselves and instruct by example.
And I'm serious about the fliers. They don't exist. Someone just needs to step up and make them. Then pass them out! (I see a litter problem, personally). But if people think it will work, then do it. Do it.
the reverend dak08.21.07 - 1:46 am
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i'd think that its kind of naive to suggest that something like midnight ridazz even could be apolitical or non confrontational. We're, you know, taking over the streets, and the people used to controlling them are going see that as a confrontation, and an assault on their political sensibilities. Which is good. Thats how change happens.
Which is also why I really like the idea a leafleting during the rides - my experience in Chicago is that ye who creates the leaflet creates the message, and essentially gets to define the ride for all who get the leaflet.
It was usually a quick, 1/4 page, bound by a zip tie around the handlebars, and said "thanks for waiting, we're riding our bikes for xyz reason, visit the website for more info" with a cool graphic. its pretty easy really. who's down?
Folks with leaflets make an extra effort to do their share of corking, and pass out leaflets to waiting cars, with a smile!
-Dan
danlesh08.21.07 - 10:48 am
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Ha!
Just read the 'about the ridazz' section for the first time. I guess we are non confrontational and not political.
Sure. If we say so :-)
danlesh08.21.07 - 11:29 am
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BE the change that you want to see in the world.
Roadblock08.21.07 - 11:45 am
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Declawed means changing things as they are. Such as knocking off the drinking and partying. A big part of why people are coming to the rides is because it's fun, it's unpredictable, you meet new people, and it's a great way to spend the weekend. You take this away and the ride has been declawed.
Flyiers - Flyiers have already been created and are free to download. cicle.org has them available. I'm not sure if they have my favorite from them or not, haven't looked in awhile.
As was stated already, we've discussed ways to limit rider and driver confrontations already. This isn't anything new. Very very few want to piss off drivers and all it takes is a few bad apples to give us a bad name. It's up to us to step up and let these people know to knock that shit off. Every time I see a driver stuck in the pack I try to get them out for example. Some of the stuff we got to do our selfs. The organizers have already busted their collective asses putting the ride together.
Again, I personally don't want to see nor do I want piss off drivers, but alot of them are already on a short fuse. Why should the ridazz get the blame for pissed off drivers when they were on the verge to begin with?
User108.21.07 - 11:55 am
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the ride is non confrontational and non political.... it doesnt prevent people from hijacking the ride's intention and being jerks. there are always a few that ruin it for the whole.... facts of life. keep pushing for the good. keep influencing the ride in a positive way and maybe the idiots will become enlightened
Roadblock08.21.07 - 11:57 am
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User1,
We probably don't know each other personally and I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't met - but why would be suspicious of anything I said here? I'm just a guy with some observations. I'd like to think that I'm a pretty nice guy in general, and I'm pretty scrawny and nonthreatening.
What do you have to be suspicious about?
trekkie08.21.07 - 12:37 pm
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I think flyers are a great idea. Drivers and passengers are always curious about what we are up to, and it's hard to sum it up in 20 seconds and tell them how to spell 'm i d n i g h t r i d a z z'.
We could have multiple versions of flers and it could be as simple as "No Rida left Behind - Join us - MidnightRidazz.com'.
thinkpeace08.21.07 - 12:48 pm
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i think all of these "rules and guidelines" should be set way before one even goes on their first MR experience. Usually new people will go with someone that's been to a MR before. It is their responsibility to let their friends that are new to MR know how we operate and the way rides are "supposed" to be carried out. It all starts with the experienced ridazz and we're supposed to spread the message. We gotta let people know what we are "NOT". But then again, no one ever listens.
t.bone08.21.07 - 1:46 pm
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Trekkie,
Your post, especially "I know that people are going to scream up and down that Ridazz aint political, ridazz should own their own actions, yadda yadda...but guess what? LIke it or not, Ridazz has become the de facto cyclist political movement in L.A. Even if that's not what it is, that's how people see the group...It has inherited the position just by the mere fact that it's the most VISIBLE and famous/infamous group in L.A.
So we might as well embrace that instead of ignoring it. "
Just reeks of an outsider coming in stirring up trouble. This and along with your record of posting or being a member on this list. You've been a member since 5/2/07 with 4 topics and 9 replies raises an eyebrow with me. This and starting a new topic as opposed to just voicing your opinion on a thread that was being used to improve the rides, just sends up a red flag with me. I could be wrong, I've been wrong before, and will be wrong somewhere again. But I stand by what I said here.
User108.21.07 - 2:25 pm
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User1,
I think your being overly critical of Trekkie. Trekkie expressed his view on what he sees as problems with MR and on the political nature of MidnightRidazz and you may disagree with it, but to accuse him/her of 'stirring up trouble' is not called for. He didn't make any trolling type of statements in his posts.
Though I disagree with Trekkies conclusion about MR being a de facto cyclist political movement in L.A. there is a political aspect to MR whether those that participate think about it or not. In our world which includes many injustices and disregard for (or ignorance of) the environment, every act is a political one. This includes staying home and doing nothing, or going to the mall and buying some sneakers. Certainly hundreds of people riding bikes together in a city like Los Angeles has a significant political aspect to it.
thinkpeace08.21.07 - 2:52 pm
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User1,
All I wanted to do was start a discussion on a topic that I felt was important. I commute on my bicycle every day to and from work, and for the majority of my weekends as well, so the issue of car friendliness has been on my mind a lot as of late.
If you do a search in this forum (I tried) you'll find that the discussions of which you speak are buried deep inside other threads. I'm sorry that I didn't go through every single one of those before bringing this topic up again. I'm also sorry that instead of a place that welcomes new users and newer riders, midnightridazz.com seems to be an exclusive club of veterans who attack "outsider" posts and the credibility of their posters.
Think about it though - what possible reason would anyone have to come here and "stir things up"? But whatever...now I know the level of paranoia and snobbishness around here. I'll just keep riding my bike, you keep riding yours, we'll drop this subject forever in these forums, and life will go on as previously scheduled.
Thanks for making me *feel* like an outsider though. Good times.
trekkie08.21.07 - 3:03 pm
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c'mon guys no need to get so hostile towards each other. User1 you have some good points on these boards yet Trekkie brings up some good points as well, it's true MR is basically the defacto ambassador of the LA cycling scene to motorists et al. thats what makes it so important to be concious of how we present ourselves to motorists and the public. partying is what keeps it fun. that will never be stripped from the ride. that is the essence of the ride and it's what draws newbies to the ride.having people who care about our reputation and are willing to help spread the love is very important. the last thing we want it for people to be bickering.... there are hard headed short sighted motherfuckers out there who dont care and want to just cause havoc.... those are the ones we want to influence and hopefully bring to our side. Trekkie and User1 you guys are on the same team.... you both care about this ride!
Roadblock08.21.07 - 4:26 pm
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I've figured this one out already guys!!
First, get a super super lame release form/waiver - and INSIST that everyone signs one before the ride starts. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Then light the releases on fire in a stack and let everyone know that it is up to them to keep each other safe.
It is funny, and the hassle of signing papers makes people pay attention.
Bonus = fire.
ubrayj0208.21.07 - 5:00 pm
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