VOTE on one of these...
Thread started by
Roadblock at 06.12.09 - 12:32 am
which of these posters do you like most? please VOTE....
(imagine you are driving by on the street)
reply
Poster B is very in your face, which is good, but Poster A has love. It's a close call.
imachynna06.12.09 - 12:35 am
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I like A cuz Love is a good way to start a message. But that is my Buddha ass just talking.
Foldie06.12.09 - 12:37 am
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I like A because I am a hippie, so kill me.
Maybe you should put my ass in it? :)
Joe Borfo06.12.09 - 12:41 am
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i concur.
i'm leaning more towards poster A since it's got love.
coldcut responding to a
comment by imachynna
06.12.09 - 12:47 am
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Poster A.
C'mon RB, we're a bunch of hippies, what do you expect?
imachynna06.12.09 - 12:54 am
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I hope you all are ready to take this love ALL CITY...
Roadblock06.12.09 - 1:03 am
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I'm not crazy about the "CAUTION" part on either one. It sort of muddies up the message. What are we, a pothole? Other than that I have no preference.
PC06.12.09 - 1:25 am
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I guess I just didnt feel like "share the road" was a strong enough message... like it or not, to most drivers we are a pothole....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by PC
06.12.09 - 1:29 am
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any alternate word suggestions that would better grab the attention of drivers that would spare the indignity of being likened to potholes?
Roadblock responding to a
comment by PC
06.12.09 - 1:32 am
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Oh, I don't really care about the indignity. It's just like...it's trying to send two messages at once ("Watch out!" "Be nice!"). Not good in a sign. Sorry, I'm a communications geek.
PC06.12.09 - 1:36 am
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being a pothole is way better than being german...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.12.09 - 1:36 am
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At least finish the job and put a dong in my mouth.
PC responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.12.09 - 1:37 am
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ahhh I got ya.... hmmm what is more important.. the "watch out" or the "be nice?"
Roadblock responding to a
comment by PC
06.12.09 - 1:41 am
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You know, I find that drivers misinterpret the signs that say share the road to mean Cyclists need to get over to the right when a car passes. I've had arguments about this with drivers while riding several times.
Joe Borfo06.12.09 - 1:41 am
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However, I like that you are putting the sharrow sign on there.
Drivers need to get familliar with that because captain sharrow is going to get busy pretty soon...
Joe Borfo06.12.09 - 1:42 am
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How about this, Don. -
BE AWARE
SHARE THE ROAD
WITH CYCLISTS
you douchebags
Joe Borfo06.12.09 - 1:45 am
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ha!
cauttion!
cyclists on the streets
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.12.09 - 1:46 am
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I would say technically, that version would make drivers act more safely.
Our rights to the road education is important but not in this instance. The message is to tell drivers to get ready to avoid PC because he is out there, somewhere, and they just have to live with it.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 1:54 am
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poster A cuz it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
and its that fucken wow...
andres84 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 8:40 am
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Poster A (but you know that).
Was starting to wonder about about the "caution" wording also. Maybe something like "slow down" or "be considerate" or just "grow up"?
mr rollers06.12.09 - 8:59 am
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A looks good on the streets... B would look good on the back of a shirt...
Gizzard06.12.09 - 9:01 am
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was trying to thing of wording that would create urgency... but not too wordy and not too aggro. something that is read-able to drivers flying by at 40mph. something that appeals to the driver's empathy. something that says we're vulnerable, we love you. love us back, please watch out...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by mr rollers
06.12.09 - 9:08 am
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When postering, a slurry of nonfat dry milk works best and will be weatherproof. So down for the cause.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by Gizzard
06.12.09 - 9:12 am
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I say poster B.
it looks like an actual city sign.
if asshole drivers see poster A, they may think
"fucking kooky ass bike advocates, fuck that."
Poster B might imply,
"fuck, don't want another ticket."
KiMS106.12.09 - 9:19 am
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the question is definitely, how do you win over the asshole drivers..... is there wording that would win them over?
Roadblock responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 9:23 am
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This is a good point. Maybe trying both and seeing which gets a better response.
Gizzard responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 9:31 am
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yeah, when the typical asshole gets stuck behind a bus or a bike, a heart isnt going to change his mind, but the more official-looking poster would. these are the guys who, when you try to talk to them scream that they're going to kill you if you make them late.
I go with poster B, but take PC's suggestion and change the text at the top to "ITS THE LAW" Make it look official.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by Gizzard
06.12.09 - 9:46 am
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How about something similar to this - http://www.3feet2pass.com/
JB06.12.09 - 9:56 am
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we may never win over the asshole driver... we may just have to accept that fact. however if enough moderate drivers who dont hate cyclists but just dont think about us get the message it may turn the tide against the asshole drivers
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 10:02 am
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I agree that the copy needs work. I also agree with Kims about using version B... cuz the heart is kinda hokey, and it takes the viewer (who will be moving really fast) longer to register what the hell is going on. Signage like that should be clear and concise
How about something more along the lines of:
BIKE ROUTE
SHARE THE ROAD
or
CYCLISTS AGHEAD
DRIVE WITH CAUTION
eh?
canadienne06.12.09 - 10:08 am
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i just remember how shocked i was when i first started riding with MR and i saw all those patches that said "bikes may use full lane." i think we really need to push that message. perhaps we can do an alternative poster specifically for narrow roads.
here are my suggestions
"bikes use full lane / on narrow road"
"bikes in the street / its the law"
"bike route / change lanes to pass"
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by canadienne
06.12.09 - 10:14 am
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"bike route" wont really work because these posters could show up everywhere and in random places...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by canadienne
06.12.09 - 10:16 am
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?
the wording and poster is by no means locked in... I think we are getting somewhere though. seems like we all agree that the symbol should be a sharrow... lets keep the discussion going...
when this is ready I want EVERYONE to be racing for our lives.... so lets keep working.
Roadblock06.12.09 - 10:17 am
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youre probably right about that, but i think it should really point to a law and make drivers question their suppositions that bikes belong on the sidewalk.
remember, when someone yells "get on the sidewalk," they usually believe that. a lot of times, theyre primarily thinking of your safety, but just dont know any better.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 10:20 am
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bikes in the street / its the law
caution / change lanes to pass
where the hell is the word master PC? he's like the Noam Chomsky of guerilla bike signage.... criticizing but leaving the solution up to the people....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 10:22 am
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I know what you are saying, but a bike route is an officially sanctioned piece of infrastructure. it might hasten the clean up if the LADOT determines that it ads to the confusion....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by canadienne
06.12.09 - 10:27 am
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3 ft to pass is great. i think we should have a VARIETY, so that people look FOR them, not AT them. we'll also be able to get more information into their heads. if we can make specific posters for narrow roads, i'd love to be able to put "may use full lane" in those locations--it's what i feel is most needed.
so what are we trying to communicate?
common sense passing distance
may use full lane
cyclists are people too
watch for bikes
am i missing anything?
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 10:28 am
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we can start getting specific to roads and so forth when this whole shebang is up and running. for now it's baby steps. one screen, one design, all city coverage. The All City Wheate Paste Team Race is coming soon... stay tuned for the details. for now lets concentrate on getting the wording right so that this poster can work in a general watch out for bikes please kind of way....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 10:32 am
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I starting to lean towards poster c.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 10:32 am
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i prefer the 3ft one
66606.12.09 - 10:36 am
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I dont support the milk industry.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 10:36 am
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I seriously like this one. Thats my final vote.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 10:37 am
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so far that one and the 3ft to pass get my vote....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.12.09 - 10:38 am
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scratch what I said a minute ago... we can definitely make more screens... but this is going to take some donation power to make it happen... and all of the designs should be non specific to the placement in a general, watch out for bikes kind of way.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.12.09 - 10:42 am
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Dammit. 3 feet to pass is a lot simpler though. Almost a command.
Joe Borfo06.12.09 - 10:42 am
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yeah, and it leads into that 3feet to pass campaign. maybe they could help with funding this.....
so check it. I bought a roll of 500' butcher paper for $26. it will make 300 posters. a screen will cost about $80 and the ink is $15 per quart. Ashira and Skramble have volunteered their equipment and Teddy is my co-conspirator.... if we can get the funds to bang out 4000 of these posters, and start the race at each of the bike co-ops east central and west plus a location in the valley and one in the south and perhaps long beach... we get bike shops to offer prizes to the most prolific wheat paste teams.... we got ourselves some bicycle awareness.....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.12.09 - 10:47 am
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I wouldnt mind posting those up :)
Avis_One06.12.09 - 10:51 am
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I like the "change lanes to pass"... It sounds like a demand. Your not asking the driver to sit and ponder on what would be morally correct. It seems like it would subconsciously stick better by having the least ammount of words to get the point across is the best to get it ingrained in a motorists head. Remember that unless they're at a stop they only get about a second to see, read and process the poster.
Gizzard06.12.09 - 10:55 am
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poster B!
et responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 10:56 am
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3 feet to pass would be the one for me, also, red -lettering would add to the overall effectiveness.
bentstrider06.12.09 - 10:58 am
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I agree. However just thought of something,
What about one lane street situations...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Gizzard
06.12.09 - 11:02 am
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RT @wolfpackhustle get funds, posters, ALL CITY Race, prizes to the prolific wheat paste teams = bicycle awareness. http://trunc.it/ezg6
Joe Borfo06.12.09 - 11:03 am
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"3 feet"? I guess... Or "keep your distance"
Or both but that's a lot of words
Gizzard responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 11:13 am
reply
How about "Be a Friendly Driver! 3 Feet to Pass" ? Make it a little more upbeat.
JB06.12.09 - 11:15 am
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Appreciated but This is a whole separate race. Has nothing to do with wolfpack hustle....
3ft to pass.... I'm liking it.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.12.09 - 11:23 am
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Good one, but kind of wordy... The heart was orignally there to get the message of friendship across... but maybe all that is not needed.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by JB
06.12.09 - 11:32 am
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BE AWARE !
OF CYCLIST
OR?
LOOK THE FUCK OUT
CYCLIST ON ROAD !
Dedicated818 responding to a
comment by JB
06.12.09 - 11:33 am
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I like that one a lot.... but what if its posted on a one lane street....?
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 11:37 am
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i work over here at LA county public works and our road maintenance division manufacture and post up all city signs like big ol red stop signs, no parking signs, street signs, merge here signs etc.
with all manufacturing procedures, there's always a batch of metal signs that get fucked up.
i dont know if they trash these signs or if they strip off all the lamination and the paint and reuse the metal.
but if i can get a stack of these old debunked signs,
we might be able to paste the poster on these signs and zip tie onto the posts that hold up no parking signs and such.
the posts/poles that hold up parking signs have holes up and down it where signs are bolted on.
if we were to paste the posters on the metal signs, then drill a couple small holes, we can easily loop a zip tie through and then attach to parking posts/poles.
ya smell me?
KiMS106.12.09 - 11:38 am
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also, if were to make it that legit, we can just have the bike and sharrow on the poster, no words, and it may look official enough to pass.
like those signs that just have arrows on them and such
KiMS106.12.09 - 11:39 am
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I like how you think KiMS.
Wouldn't it be awesome just to have a crap load of reflective sharrow signs around the city?
canadienne responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 11:41 am
reply
if we have fucked up city signs, we could just paint the image directly on the metal and attach them with bolts like the city does!
of course, this would have to be on private property. it's illegal to post signs on public property.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 11:45 am
reply
ill email some our road maintenance crews today and see if they reuse the signs or not.
im not sure but i dont think they do.
its a steel sign and the laminate is like ON THERE. i cant imagine how u can peel it off. and i dont know if they just melt it off.
if anything, i think they may just send it off to a recycling plant or something.
usually trash gets thrown into these metal bins outside of the work yards and we may be able to just dumpster dive and dig those things out
KiMS1 responding to a
comment by canadienne
06.12.09 - 11:45 am
reply
well if we are wheat pasting posters onto city electrical boxes, might as well make some more legit looking and bolt it onto the poles, no?
or would those electrical boxes be property of edison or something?
KiMS1 responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 11:48 am
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Wow. Very awesome. Make it happen. The more the better!!
Roadblock responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 11:49 am
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I love it! Feels so project mayhem-ish!
@roadblock: duuuude I love the "change lanes" one I don't think anything sounds cooler than that or is as impactful. Maybe 3ft to pass but if I were a motorists that didn't know shit about cycling (or traffic laws, like the majority of la), I dunno if the point would get across. Seems like something that they'll read but not necessarily care to follow. Shit! The speed limit is official and how many times do people follow that? I personally think the numbers will turn people off...
Gizzard responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 11:52 am
reply
also,
the city puts up temporary signs all the time for part time maintenance and road work projects,
example,
around sunset junction time, they zip tie these plastic layer no parking signs, or if a production company is filming on a certain street, they use big old signs to explain when to park and how long,
those signs are sturdy and PLENTY around the city and we just gotta look for road projects
if i cant secure the metal signs then maybe we should just lift those.
still not legal but whats legal nowadays anyway
KiMS1 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 11:54 am
reply
how big are the posters so i know what size the signs should be?
it looks about 2'x3.5'
KiMS1 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 11:58 am
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Great idea. Sign me up.
I don't like the heart.
The more basic the better
my $0.02
Mook06.12.09 - 11:59 am
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also,
since these signs are going to be a bitch to produce and post up,
maybe we should take a poll on which streets really need them.
im not too familiar with the dtla/silverlake/echo park/ktown area but i remember people kept mentioning glendale blvd or something like that
KiMS106.12.09 - 12:00 pm
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Homeslice. Don't use the word illegal when talking about this shit.
I can't even get the city to convict with a god damned hit and run driver. The city aint gonna do shit about this.
Ever heard of Robbie Conal? Look him up. The man has done missions like this for decades. This is part of our civil liberty freedom of speech.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 12:05 pm
reply
that would probably be something for different areas to get together and discuss. on my list would be washington blvd in culver city and palms blvd in mar vista.
ESPECIALLY that little strip on Palms between motor and hughes where the road narrows and where drivers throw starbucks. signage would be key.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 12:07 pm
reply
okay i just talked to a couple of my road folks
so,
these sheet is manufactured with the reflective layer already on it,
then decals are heat transfered on top of the reflective layer.
if they fuck up a batch, they usually dont try to peel the decals off, it goes into a bin that gets sent back to the sheet metal company for them to try and reuse.
i have to wait till monday for their supervisors to get back because they don't know if they can just hand out the fucked up batches,
its not really money issues but its more of the fact that our county public works logos are on the sheet,
thats the only issue of them giving it to me to take home. it costs money for them to get rid of the signs so itd be cheaper to give them away.
im building a "dog house" and a "tool shed"
KiMS106.12.09 - 12:12 pm
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posters are one thing, and i've been straight-up ignored by cops while putting up posters.
bolting signs on city property is another matter. it's also very likely a good idea. will some cops probably care that we're putting up signs? yeah. im sure they will. they will probably also assume we stole the signs from somewhere else.
that said i have faith that the goodness and necessity of our endeavor outweighs all of that. im also sure that we could explain ourselves and justify our actions and be allowed to go on our way.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 12:17 pm
reply
on that same note, i dont know if any of you have seen the "bike crossing" signs someone put up on the 4th street bike route crossing highland and vine. they're obviously DIY but theyve been there for a long long time.
tortuga_veloce06.12.09 - 12:19 pm
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if we were to get ahold of these sheets, its going to be amazing bc they already have the reflective layer on it.
we just have to black out the parts for the bike and sharrow signs and what not.
it would look so muthafuckin official.
also, if we were to post up, i think it should posted up far away from certain bike savvy locations such as near the bike kitchen and crank mob park or something.
cops seem to be very uninformed about city ordinances involving bikes but to see a bunch of these signs pop up right next to crank mob park or wherever, i feel like its gonna look suspicious
KiMS106.12.09 - 12:22 pm
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Hey guys, not to be a dick but this thread is about wording for signs that I'm looking for you, the public to help me with. I love the city signs and the zip ties idea and will help you with graphics for that should you need it. But start another thread for that. Leave this one for discussion on sign wording. Thanks
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 12:26 pm
reply
I like the one with the heart.
But the one with out might be easier to see from long distance.
I SAY ALL OF THE ABOVE AND MORE!
Seriously,
with a similar aesthetic/ branding we could put out all kinds of messages that would be really useful.
ie:
- LQQK B4 U OPEN YOUR DOOR
- PASS WITH AMPLE ROOM (3-5 feet)
- USE YOUR SIGNALS
ETC.
I think the posters are great
but just like advertisers we should perhaps think about it like a campaign with a variety of ads that expand / specify / reenforce the message and keep people interested.
my 2¢ ...
and you know I am 100% down to help get these out.
trickmilla06.12.09 - 12:27 pm
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FUCKING DICK!
jk
i think we should keep the poster look as close as to city signs we have now,
i really like poster B
i think just the sharrow sign, the bike, and the wording
"share the road!"
would be perfect.
KiMS106.12.09 - 12:28 pm
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That is... sign wording for this wheate paste campaign I'm working on. You guys can do whatever you want for your plan which will occur on another thread thanks in advance for your courtesy.
Roadblock06.12.09 - 12:28 pm
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I think the "share the road" message is best, it clarifies/reiforces the meaning of the sharrows. I prefer poster B, and think the top part should say "ATTENTION!" instead.
kryxtanicole06.12.09 - 12:33 pm
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indeed. im actually working on a project to put educational posters INSIDE police precincts. if you guys are interested in working on that project, hit me up at project21202(a,t)gmail(do;t)com
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 12:34 pm
reply
I know you got my back brotha.... and I agree. A campaign with different slogans will be most effective.
The issue is budget. Screens cost money so just remember the more screens the more money.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by trickmilla
06.12.09 - 12:36 pm
reply
Me lady like the one with the heart ... also said she would love to have one as a tee-shirt or a tote bag.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 12:37 pm
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Borfo did bring up a valid point about the wording being taken in the wrong way....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 12:39 pm
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fo sho ... but to reclaim and re-burn a screen is about $20-$40 with film.
once we print a buttload of the first design and get that shot out there we could switch it up for the next round.
not saying all in one day
but maybe every month or two.
and seriously ... tees and totes could make us some capital to pay for the screens/ paper.
..............
thats all future talk tho.
the right move is deff to pick one and proliferate
that will get the ball rolling
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 12:44 pm
reply
i think "share the road" has a different meaning from us than it does for drivers. for a driver, i think "share the road" means "ride next to the cars" or "get out of my way." i think if we're going to do something outside of the city bureaucracy, we should be advocating for a more pointed explanation of the law.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by kryxtanicole
06.12.09 - 12:48 pm
reply
lmfao, poster c!
is that an invitation to choadblock?
spiraldemon responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.12.09 - 12:53 pm
reply
Reclaiming the screens can def save money. Love your thinking. but think about this. I want to build a collection of these and share them with others around the city. This is not a one time campaign, this is for the forsee-able future.... LA is NOT going to do a damn thing about bikes for years.... this is for the long haul. Lets build a library of screens and build a campaign of infrastructure and build it on a budget of pennies and sweat... make it easy for everyone involved. Keep it sustain-able.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by trickmilla
06.12.09 - 12:55 pm
reply
Well I'm definitely glad I got all y'all to put input on this.... lots of valid points. I think its heading in a good direction.
So far I like change lanes to pass the most.... even if its on a one lane street it still means something.
It means "don't pass"
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 1:00 pm
reply
I came to this thing a bit late ...
So Looking over the whole thing
for starters I think the heart logo is nice and it has a soft edge to it.
It is asking people to be kind and considerate.
Some assholes will never listen
but I think the heart logo will appeal to people that want to be kind to cyclists
but maybe aren't always thinking about it.
what can i say it's CUTE
its not a city sign
its not supposed to be
the more straight forward design this shit will clearly be a guerilla effort
i think that the heart kinda signifies that this a project of love.
speaking of love ... i always though there should be a billboard that says
"my mom is asking you to slow down"
but i digress..
I think SHARE THE ROAD is good. it gets points for brevity, but it is so generic that it sort of goes over peoples heads.
I think PASS WITH CAUTION would work.
or PLEASE PASS SAFELY
but really I don't have a problem with any of them.
we should take some out the the Desert to help Bentstrider deal with all the yahoos out there it could read PLEASE BE COURTEOUS - CYCLIST MAY BE ARMED
jay kay
trickmilla06.12.09 - 1:03 pm
reply
I like:
Please
3 feet to pass
worked with the sharrow and bike somehow
alicestrong06.12.09 - 1:06 pm
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these are great, but i've two comments:
1. the heart reduces the seriousness of the message
2. "3 FT TO PASS" is perhaps clear to cyclists, but i don't think people understand what this means. who needs three feet to pass? a cyclist? me in my car? pass what? and 3ft to some people is a close shave.
just some things to consider. i think your audience (drivers) hasn't been considered as much as the cyclists.
meandmybluebike06.12.09 - 1:07 pm
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In many states, 3 feet to pass is already a law.
3 feet to pass
picture of bike
alicestrong responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.12.09 - 1:10 pm
reply
"caution... Pass with ample room"
That's awesome! Direct and too the point. The "friendlier" the poster is, the less impact it will have, primarily due to the extra wording. Maybe all the sweet things, like the heart and the please and stuff should be saved for a tshirt/bag fundraiser. That way when it's worn by a person the friendliness is better transcended because it has a face. You don't necessarily need that warmth/friendliness on a poster. Ya know what I'm sayin? Just sayin....
Gizzard responding to a
comment by trickmilla
06.12.09 - 1:20 pm
reply
"Borfo did bring up a valid point about the wording being taken in the wrong way...."
Yeah, Share The Road, doesn't mean much to some drivers, but on my way to work today I see many big yellow Signs on bike route streets that say SHARE THE ROAD and a big Bicycle. So, this has been going on for some time. Perhaps we should just keep up with it? Get more of the same all over LA. Or, should we reinvent the wheel?
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 1:22 pm
reply
i think your audience (drivers) hasn't been considered as much as the cyclists.
Exactly.
Y'all have to decide if this is a poster for us or them.
The more official these posters look (depite being WP), the more clout you are borrowing from preestablished sources of authority. The visual language of these posters needs to be the same language that motorists are used to seeing/reading. Otherwise it's just more urban art-fodder.
Eric Hair responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.12.09 - 1:22 pm
reply
If you guys want sign material (the exact same yellow, reflective, adhesive-backed stuff that the city uses) to use in high-traffic areas, I'd be more than happy to donate some. Gimme a call RB if you wanna pick some up.
Eric Hair06.12.09 - 1:26 pm
reply
Roadblock I think you have some good ideas, and remember, ultimately, any message is a good message.
imachynna06.12.09 - 1:32 pm
reply
3 feet to pass, it's the law
i like
steph responding to a
comment by imachynna
06.12.09 - 1:41 pm
reply
My favorite share the road...the zen version
But yeah basically anything more put out there is good...
Depends on if it will eventually dovetail into a real 3 feet law being passed here
alicestrong responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.12.09 - 1:46 pm
reply
"any message is a good message."
BUT is it an EFFECTIVE message?! it appears that the GOAL here is to create an effective IMPACT in driver behavior, not just have the driver or pedestrian see it and write it off as 'street art' or superfluous hippie jive.
borfo's comment about 'familar language' is spot on.
eric hair's eye for graphic design and general design is superb.
meandmybluebike responding to a
comment by imachynna
06.12.09 - 1:52 pm
reply
That's true.
I'd just like for some drivers to maybe even put the
thought of a bicycle in their head, whether it's street art or not, you know? You know those drivers.
imachynna responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.12.09 - 1:55 pm
reply
the yin and yang can appear as oppositional. there is a clear barrier between the car and bike. i don't like that the car is in the brightly color yang, while the bicycle is in the dark yin.
i don't like it.
sorry, alice.
meandmybluebike responding to a
comment by alicestrong
06.12.09 - 1:56 pm
reply
that's not quite the law. if it said explicitly "3 feet," that would be great. it says "safe distance." that can be interpreted as 3 feet, but it can be reasonably argued that 2 1/2 feet or 2 feet are safe. hell, some idiot cop and idiot judge can even gang up and decide that 3 inches is a safe distance. and they will.
but i digress. we have to change peoples attitudes: this includes police and judges. the first step isnt the city council or the mayor's office--its our neighbors.
21750. The driver of a vehicle overtaking another vehicle or a bicycle proceeding in the same direction shall pass to the left at a safe distance without interfering with the safe operation of the overtaken vehicle or bicycle, subject to the limitations and exceptions hereinafter stated.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by steph
06.12.09 - 1:58 pm
reply
amended:
3 feet to pass, it should be the law
steph responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 2:00 pm
reply
once the wording is finally settled on, we are moving forward with phase 2 next week which is printing. this is where you ridazz can help out by donating as much as you can.
the total budget for this endeavor is going to be about $500 for ink, screen, and 13 rolls of butcher paper.
Roadblock06.12.09 - 2:07 pm
reply
i'm with you on this one
steph responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 2:09 pm
reply
once the printing is done... about 4000 posters... the next step will be getting the bike kitchen, bike oven, bikerowave and valley bikery to host the start of the race.
we will also need prize donations. each location will be linked via stickcam.com from which the race will be started.
ridazz will get out there and cover the electric boxes, photograph them and come back and upload to the website, or flicker. the first team back with legit hits will be declared the regional winners.
I forgot, we will need to figure out the wheatepaste / glue situation. I dont know the expenses... will find out soon.
Roadblock06.12.09 - 2:10 pm
reply
"But I'm not being a dick. I'm just riding my bicycle in the streets..."
meandmybluebike responding to a
comment by KiMS1
06.12.09 - 2:11 pm
reply
LOL
"it should be the law"
According to traffic laws, numbers don't mean shit. It's basically what is safe for the situation. For example, a cop can pull you over if your following the speed limit in a situation that would be hazerdous to the people/other motorists around them.
I like roadblocks last poster... Though I'm gonna be an asshole and say I'm not a fan of the please.
Gizzard responding to a
comment by steph
06.12.09 - 2:11 pm
reply
Ha ha...Annie I wasn't suggesting it, it's a little too "out there", but it's my personal fave anyway...You know I'm "out there" myself
For the general public I like "3 feet to pass please"
Share the road is OK...just been done lots
Caution please pass with care...very gentle...leaves room to work up to the 3 feet please
alicestrong responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.12.09 - 2:38 pm
reply
Sharrows are coming
"douchebag!! dont kill a cyclist!!"
said a sign i passed
tortuga_veloce06.12.09 - 2:52 pm
reply
is everyone on board with the Caution Please Pass With Care sign?
respond now or forever hold your peace.
Roadblock06.12.09 - 2:57 pm
reply
I am. What does Percival Cornelius think?
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 3:14 pm
reply
i still feel it's not strong enough. i'd prefer it say "leave room / when passing" or something like that
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 3:14 pm
reply
it's a little stronger, but still appeals to one's common sense.
tortuga_veloce06.12.09 - 3:15 pm
reply
I think "CAUTION!" is a pretty strong appeal....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 3:18 pm
reply
yeah where did he disappear to...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.12.09 - 3:19 pm
reply
"Pass bikes with care" makes me think of a van passing a cyclist one foot away but slowly and with care. Id rather emphasize passing wide than carefully.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 3:45 pm
reply
we can spend all day coming up with the perfect slogan... so, lets keep throwing ideas out there. maybe one will stick.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 3:55 pm
reply
I'm with PC on this. We need the hipsters ta represent to. So we added a litl to ur imag.
k by!
User106.12.09 - 4:31 pm
reply
ahh, now it's read-able... I was having trouble understanding the symbol with the two circles...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by User1
06.12.09 - 4:41 pm
reply
stickers would be dope... also looking for you and PC to weigh in on the latest version.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Eric Hair
06.12.09 - 5:04 pm
reply
Not that anyone asked me, but if it's down to these two, I'd go with the "pass with care" one, simple because "change lane to pass" isn't always safe/possible, especially if it's a single lane road.
Also, I would change the bottom copy to
HAVE INFORMATION ABOUT A HIT AND RUN?
rather than "witness a hit and run?" because really... witnesses should be calling 911, not emailing some random person.
canadienne responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 5:27 pm
reply
I think "Change Lanes To Pass" is the most effective because it gives a specific instruction rather than a fuzzy warning that's open to interpretation.
angle responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 5:30 pm
reply
I'm asking everyone... so thanks for the comments. it's NOT necessarily down to those two, just that the active responders on this thread appear to agree to this phrasing.
and I will change to "have info about a hit and run?"
perhaps a spanish language version as well..
Roadblock responding to a
comment by canadienne
06.12.09 - 5:31 pm
reply
I like "change lanes" but its true that it may not make sense in some situations. What pisses me off the most is when im at the far right of a wide lane and some jerk comes barreling down right next to me.
How about
"Keep distance
When passing"
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by GodLovesUgly
06.12.09 - 6:00 pm
reply
Absolutely Brilliant!
I like both versions, each has an appropriate environment. "Change Lanes" works on some streets and "With Care" works on the others.
I like the specific directive but most of all, I like that the imagery of the Sharrow will get seared into the consciousness of the public and that WE will give it meaning. (The city's plan is diluted and does nothing to push the message)
I think this is such a great idea and I think it is doable. Really doable!
We're in to hang posters and we're in with $!
Department of DIY!
SoapBoxLA06.12.09 - 6:11 pm
reply
Possible alternate lines:
ATTENTION
SHARE THE ROAD
HEY THERE, PAL
SHARE THE ROAD
PARDON ME, BUT
I NEED YOU TO SHARE THE FUCKING ROAD
I LOVE YOU
GIMME SOME ROOM
katiepoche responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.12.09 - 6:53 pm
reply
HEY THERE, DUDERONOMY
KEEP DISTANCE WHEN PASSING
BIKERS, LIKE EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE
EXCEPT FOR BLACK HOLES AND DARK MATTER,
HAVE MASS AND OCCUPY VOLUME
THANKS
I feel like the top two lines should be big.
Then the "Bikers, like everything in the universe ... " could be smaller, for pedestrians to see.
Then a big THANKS at the end.
katiepoche responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
06.12.09 - 7:00 pm
reply
how about changing "CAUTION" to say "BIKES IN THE STREET"?
tortuga_veloce06.12.09 - 7:04 pm
reply
thanks for the critique BOX and everyone else that weighed in on this...
well it looks like it comes down to these two...
really, as long as we get the ball rolling and get out these out there.... we can make more slogans in the future....
Department of DIY!
Roadblock responding to a
comment by SoapBoxLA
06.12.09 - 8:18 pm
reply
next week is when we are planning to print. Ashira and Skramble have graciously volunteered their facilities to make it happen. I'm hoping we can slam out about 4000 of these..... but we'll see what happens. anyone who wants to be involved with the printing effort please hit me up. roadblock at midnightridazz dot calm
I feel like this is going to be a step in the right direction... hopefully....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by SoapBoxLA
06.12.09 - 8:23 pm
reply
I like both, but my vote is for "pass with care" because "change lanes to pass" isn't possible or practical in all situations. I do feel that "change lanes to pass" will be more effective if the location is right.
If you are willing to print and roll out both signs, I will fund the second screen.
For those of us with cars, we need to also be setting an example when we drive. Make it really obvious to other drivers when you pass a cyclist, and pass with an exaggerated distance (care).
jxjx06.13.09 - 10:18 am
reply
were cerius we want thes sinz at less ware therz lotz of hipsters or we go on strik!
thatz rite, no barspins no skidz no NOTYHINg on NE rides!
sinz or strik!
User106.13.09 - 12:12 pm
reply
I like this version with
PLEASE PASS WITH CARE.
Why the ♥ ?
Why the Please ?
I understand the desire of other cyclists for this to have some AUTHORITY
"I'm not asking, I'm TELLING you - give me some fucking room"
It's a sentiment we all feel out there.
This project is happening because the city/ state has failed to provide us with the authoritative signage and infrastructure needed to keep us safe out there.
But, these signs, by there nature will not be authoritative.
They are clearly grass-roots/ underground/ punk/ diy / community-based
I am therefore, strongly appealing to the "get more bees with honey" approach.
These signs will not be respected on any authoritative level no mater what we do.
So I really think it is more effective to be polite in the messaging.
This is not a message from the state, it is a message from your fellow travelers asking you out of human decency to be cautious and polite on the road. Our beating hearts are at stake.
If these signs were being printed on wood or metal and posted as art-official city signs I would feel much differently.
recap:
I VOTE FOR KIND, FRIENDLY, POLITE AND CUTE
OVER PSEUDO-AUTHORITATIVE MESSAGE.
trickmilla06.13.09 - 1:22 pm
reply
I'm right there with you trickmill. I thought of the heart symbol for all of those well srticulated reasons... but after all the debate I've lost my love for the heart symbol only because it tends to obscure the sharrow a bit as a symbol.... but what would you say about putting "please" back in... "please pass with care"
"Please change lane to pass"
??
Roadblock responding to a
comment by trickmilla
06.13.09 - 2:24 pm
reply
I agree with trickmilla. and okay roadblock. we'll be on midnight ridazz more often. heard you loud and clear today on the radio. :) i'm very into this whole project. nice work.
gohomedorothy06.13.09 - 5:24 pm
reply
so I don't know how website coding works...but it looks like this is the 10,000 thread?
Hair06.13.09 - 8:39 pm
reply
I like the caution 3 feet / caution change lane to pass ones that you guys have done, but I'm also a big fan of the hearts and the friendly messages.
JB responding to a
comment by Hair
06.13.09 - 9:23 pm
reply
I've been picking my boy Branded Bunny's brain about this mission.... He has been absolutely helpful and intrigued...
this is the approximate budget I'm looking at so far:
4000 20"x30" pre cut butcher paper sheets $400
5 Gallons waterbase black silkscreen ink $125
2 x 5-Gallon Ultra Clear Wallpaper Adhesive $75
3 gallons wood glue $50
2 30 x 40 screens $160
screen hardener $20
emulsion ??
200 2.5 gallon ziplock bags (carry the glue in your chromebag/backpak) cost ??
total donations needed $850
you bring:
4" paint brushes (for glue)
backpack
still thinking of convenient ways to carry the posters via bicycle
Hubs for poster distribution:
Bike Oven
Hel Mel/Bike Kitchen
Bikerowave
Echo Park Cycles
Need 2 valley locations
need 3 south side locations
Korea Town Location
Long Beach
People are saying it's insane. That it would be the most massive one night wheat paste campaign ever done....
well...
We gonna do what they say can't be done.
Roadblock06.13.09 - 9:25 pm
reply
It's time to move this conversation from thinking and rethinking about the content and it's time to shift into the funding discussion.
Enci & I am in for a $100 and we'd like to help with the screen printing. Let's roll!
SoapBoxLA06.13.09 - 10:46 pm
reply
Awesome.
The discussion was interesting, but,
I like JB's the best.
Trouble with these signs is that, even when I know where they are, I never notice them when I'm driving because they're not in a spot where I would be looking for signage that might affect my driving. But plastered all over the city would certainly make a publicity statement. And I could just imagine how the city might complain about the cost of having to remove these "eyesores" from public places. Bunch of useless f...uh...public servants.
dave responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.13.09 - 11:01 pm
reply
My remix to add to the library.
My $0.02:
* Speaks directly to the drivers. Ridazz already know
* Biggest word (Allowed) explains the graphic
* As clear as I can make it
* Cites the CVC section. Drivers won't know it but that doesn't matter -- everyone knows a CVC citation on a traffic sign says LEGAL CITATION = PENALTY FOR VIOLATION
OverTheHill06.13.09 - 11:11 pm
reply
I also agree with Kims1. Definitely B.
As for the "Bikes Allowed" I think that might confuse drivers. If the sign is not on a street, does that mean no bikes allowed?
Coe coe buttaa responding to a
comment by OverTheHill
06.13.09 - 11:22 pm
reply
I got 50$ on this.
Why not?
I could blow it all on beer in a week...
oh shit.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by SoapBoxLA
06.14.09 - 12:00 am
reply
from http://velovogue.blogspot.com/
dave responding to a
comment by Coe coe buttaa
06.14.09 - 9:55 am
reply
I'm wondering if it might be cheaper and easier to just have these printed rather than screen printed.... gonna check some prices.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by dave
06.14.09 - 11:21 am
reply
I've got 20 bucks on this easily.
I just now read this thread and I don't even know exact dates when the actual posting up would be happening but this seems like a great idea.
We can easily point out negative things about why this won't have enough impact but instead of sitting around and bitching about this, Roadblock and others look like they're ready to take action.
If we can manage to pull together and raise the $850 or whatever is needed for this, it will show a lot about our ability as a bike community to raise funding and actually throw our collective weight around. Not to mention the shot to the collective consciousness of Los Angeles to see all these bike sharrow pictures show up over night.
I think this could hopefully turn into something greater than the sum of its parts, if successful
hybrid rida responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.14.09 - 11:51 am
reply
my vote is for this one
the heart design can eat it -- save cutesy for something when your life isn't on the line -- and the CVC vehicle code needs to be on there--good idea
hitsthepoles_ow responding to a
comment by OverTheHill
06.14.09 - 1:04 pm
reply
I have no monies, but I definitely have experience pasting.
Will MAKE IT HAPPEN!
RB, collect names of "autonomous" team leads, off-list, go from there.
the reverend dak responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.14.09 - 1:19 pm
reply
I'll put $50 toward it. Pay Pal button por favor?
OverTheHill responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.14.09 - 1:27 pm
reply
i have an idea on how to cut the cost in half.............. i'lll try to make it out to Wolfpack and share my idea Roadblock
AIDS6606.14.09 - 1:45 pm
reply
I like a version with "Pass with Care" - it's applicable to all situations and I like to think that it appeals to a driver's sense of humanity. All too often a car is a de-humanizing machine, so drivers need to be constantly reminded that all of us, whether traveling by car, bike or on foot are still part of the human race. Call it bleeding heart, but I think what we're after here is an attitude adjustment - it's the only way things are gonna change.
And of course I'm in to help, printing or whatever.
mr rollers06.14.09 - 2:14 pm
reply
I've been thinking about this ALOT as I ride the streets.
Locations to paste
how it will be seen/ read
We will not be able to match the prominence or authority of official road signs.
We are actually competing lots of visual information: Advertisements, Graffiti, Wheat-Paste Artists, etc.
WE NEED SIGNAGE THAT WILL BE VISUALLY ENGAGING AND ENTICE PEOPLE TO
WANT TO LOOK at our message an not ignore as they might be inclined to do faced with teh glut of information that is out there.
I understand the desire of some for this to have a more official look, but once this is slapped to a utility box or on some plywood in front of a construction site. Thats not how this thing will be read.
We must seduce and entice people to look at this.
Our only weapons are visual enticement and proliferation.
I am making one more appeal for a version that incorporates the heart.
If its the version that we would rather wear as a tee shirt or a patch ... then it's the version/ direction we should consider for this project.
trickmilla06.15.09 - 11:54 am
reply
That was my initial pick... maybe I should trust that intuition?
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by trickmilla
06.15.09 - 11:56 am
reply
I'd also like to add that I am not married to the sharrow on the poster.
I love sharrows I think they are great we NEED them.
But think about where these will be.
The picture above is a BEST case scenario.
We are going to be scrapping for lots of unideal locations for these just to get a few more eyes.
Sharrows don't really function unless they're on the ground.
Most people will have no Idea what they mean.
They won't be getting that the sharrow represents the proper road position of a bike
in a place that is away from the gutter and away of the door zone.
Think about it.
It just does not function in this context.
We do need sharrows on the road.
We do need to demand them.
But in this instance I think having the sharrow in the design does nothing to communicate to drivers that we need them to be conscientious of us on the road and respect that we have the right to be there as well.
Forget about the sharrow as a symbol of bike empowerment and any love we have for the sharrow on that basis.
What does it do for us in the context of this poster?
trickmilla06.15.09 - 12:08 pm
reply
in the context of the poster it gets the icon into the psyche....
are there other cheap alternatives for having these printed cheaply besides screenprinting? that way maybe can have several designs. as it is getting the screens done adds a lot of expense... anyone know?
Roadblock responding to a
comment by trickmilla
06.15.09 - 12:16 pm
reply
How much does each screen cost? $40? $50?
perhaps we can build screens then just pay to get them burned.
I'm pretty sure we can hook up a community deal on film + burning if we look around.
If we are planning on printing 1000s of these maybe an extra $150 pr $200 doesn't seem so much especially as it would allow us to possibly print more than one (or at more than one location) at a time.
what if we print some on nice paper and sell them for $5 or $10 as posters for the ridazz to hang in their bedrooms, offices, studios and punk houses. That could pay for some extra screens with little extra expense pretty quick.
nothing like a little premium to help people part with their $$$$s
..................
not sure what other methods can print on such cheap paper.
we could try to pay somebody to print them cheap but probably wont look as good.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.15.09 - 12:34 pm
reply
I think that is the 1 thing that the sharrow does in the poster.
Its an important thing ... but I think it should be weighed against the function and intent of the poster as safety propaganda.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.15.09 - 12:36 pm
reply
Copy shops charge 8-15 cents for 11x17 copies.
That might be the cheapest way to go.
JB06.15.09 - 12:43 pm
reply
I'm going to ask around. the prints are 20"x30" one color. any info on pricing from people in the know out there would be helpful. exact pricing on quanties of 2000 posters and 4000 posters would be appreciated.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by JB
06.15.09 - 12:45 pm
reply
couple of quick looks online
offset printing (4 color only) 100lb paper (only)
18x24 x 1000 = $450
18x24 x 4000 = $1050
if we can find a printer that will do 1 color and cheaper paper could be cheaper.
one of the reasons this standardized printing is so cheap is that they have massive machines that gang a bunch of jobs together and save a lot of time/ resources.
one good thing about this lab is that they soy based inks.
http://www.losangelesprintingservice.com/print/Offset-Posters.html
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.15.09 - 1:16 pm
reply
Lots of great feedback on design and content, if I may try to wrap it up a bit:
We have an opportunity to drive an image into the consciousness of the public and the leadership of the city.
The HEART is a great image and if we get the support of Hallmark, we're on our way to a long term campaign but it won't register or resonate with the City and that would be a missed opportunity to kick start the SHARROWS Campaign.
To mix the HEART and the SHARROW reduces the size of the SHARROW significantly and the motorists who will see the posters need simplicity if the imagery is to sink in and become recognizable.
The SHARROW image with supporting message may have greater benefit on the road but it will start on posters, move to the press, then to the City's leadership and to the Department of No!, eventually fueled by the political will that we produce and will become a reality on the streets, all because we got behind the campaign and put SHARROWS all over the City of Los Angeles.
I love it all but cast my vote for the "Change Lanes" and "Caution" versions of the SHARROW posters.
SoapBoxLA06.15.09 - 3:38 pm
reply
Paypal link and I'm in to donate.
I would suggest raising as much as you can quicky and deciding how many screens/designs you can afford based on that. If you can get a variety of messages (even just 2-3) with the same basic design it works the best.
It draws the eye when you see a new sign... the onlooker is checking it out looking for variation (but has enough similar elements to know it is part of the same line). It can also look better when you're filling a larger space.
brinton06.15.09 - 4:20 pm
reply
ok everyone.... I want to move forward with this. Ashira is waiting to help me burn the screen... is everyone going to be aight with PLEASE PASS WITH CARE
Roadblock responding to a
comment by brinton
06.16.09 - 5:15 pm
reply
interesting... when I first saw these I was totally sold on the hearts (of course!).. but now I'm totally sold on the 3 ft to pass one... anyways I'm down for anything that gets the message out...
redridinghood06.16.09 - 5:43 pm
reply
screen is bring made today. pick up is tomorrow.... then phase 2: operation print millennium.....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by aksendz
09.15.09 - 4:37 pm
reply
'mmmmmmmmmmmmmonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.15.09 - 4:46 pm
reply
-->
Ridazz Roulette!
POSTER A
POSTER B
.... Love is winning so far... 
I've herd that too.
kind of like this one....
ok I lied. - This one.
how about
how about this one?
visualize bicycle infrastructure.
@Eric @ PC
or this one?