Thread started by indigis at 11.29.08 - 11:12 am



My car lease is up in 30 days. Now I have to consider actually living up to the diatribe that I spout about living car free.

Who else does it without a car?



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I do. I've never had a car nor do I know how to drive.....



random hero
11.29.08 - 11:15 am

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i have a car. But haven't used it in about 6 months. (she doesn't run anymore anyways)

But i have a Scooter now! RED ROCKET!!!



richtotheie
11.29.08 - 11:19 am

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i'll still keep my scooter. you'll have to pry that from my dying hands.



indigis
11.29.08 - 11:43 am

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im in the same boat as richie have a car but it hasnt run in a couple months.soon ill fix it, sell it and buy a scooter (hopefully like the one posted above) + road bike.



larsenf
11.29.08 - 12:05 pm

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Nice beemer!

I've been carless since Aug 30 this year. So far managing quite well. Part of the reason is that I've limited work and life to pretty much LB and LA. Blue Line running on my street works well for me too.





User1
11.29.08 - 12:12 pm

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i don't have a car. i haven't had a car for 2 years. i ride my bike everywhere. and sometimes i take the bus.

just recently, i took a friend to the airport and borrowed his car while he was gone - used it one time for a meeting in downtown - the only thing i missed was freeway driving like a racecar - but that isn't good enough.. the confined space - being caught in traffic - all i kept on thinking was if i was riding my bike, i'd be home by now.



bondink
11.29.08 - 12:14 pm

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Riding in cars makes me feel dirty.



la duderina
11.29.08 - 1:03 pm

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no car for about seven months now.



infiniteawesome
11.29.08 - 1:07 pm

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I've been repeatedly told I should own one again, but I see them as pain-in-the-ass to fix, insure, and register all the fuckin' time.

That's why the company rig usually acts as the ferry between the "Basin" and the "Bowl".

And, I already rent a nice, good working vehicle for whenever I don't feel like having to deal with a loaded container on the way back.





bentstrider
11.29.08 - 1:15 pm

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I was carless for about 6 months and it was no problem. I'm gonna be a father so I kind of need a car....imagine my girl riding handlebars to the hospital right after her water breaks...slippery!!!



horse sense
11.29.08 - 2:14 pm

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I would only get one if you really need it. I been in a car for the past two years (after being without one for seven years) although it is a necessity at this time of my life, I think if you are healthy and physically able to transport yourself on a bike it is kinda silly to have one.. I can see myself purchasing a pickup in the future to move heavy items. Unless you keep one for emergency (hospital drop offs or emergency pick up for loved ones, or you have to get out of town because you know the air is going to kill you (or some type of emergency akin)), If you can afford to pay the insurance and have a place to park it, I wouldn't suggest a need for one. You can always rent a truck or car when needed, or get a cab (not great for emergencies). I did for seven years with only a few inconveniences.

Do whatever works for you!



sexy
11.29.08 - 2:24 pm

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Renting a car when I need one actually makes sense. That's only about 30 bucks a day. Right now I piss away 900 a month on lease and insuance. That's not even counting gas. And that's taking my car out perhaps 7 days a month. Good point sexy. Would you like to bet whether or not I buy a car. : p



indigis
11.29.08 - 4:31 pm

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Cars are handy if you have to cover longer distances quickly, wamt to commute without getting sweaty and having to change, need to run multiple errands, need to carry cargo or passengers, want to have lunch with a friend on the other side of town without planning the day around it, etc., etc.

If you buy a Civic/Corolla/something else cheap and reliable, you can pay it off in a couple of years and have a decade plus of fairly reliable transportation without a car payment.

There's a lot to be said for bikes as a means of transportation, but there's a lot to be said for cars as well.

It's a good thing it doesn't have to be an either/or situation, but rather a both/and situation.

Now we just have to make L.A. as bicycle friendly as it is car friendly. Turning the aqueducts into a series of bike/pedestrian paths, and adding sharrows to cross-town streets to make L.A. a more comfortable place to travel by bike would be an awesome start.




JB
11.29.08 - 5:25 pm

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That would not be a wager of chance!

It could be $30-$50 per day, if you factor in full insurance coverage. About $20 per day for insurance. When I was younger, I always went without. Now that I'm older I always get the full coverage. The choice is yours.

The best deals for auto rentals are usually found on the internet, although I have not found anyway of getting around finding a good deal on car rentals through the travel sites that do not have you pick it up at LAX.

You can always buy/lease a car if you decide you need one in the future.




sexy
11.29.08 - 5:53 pm

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JB:
"Cars are handy if you have to cover longer distances quickly, wamt to commute without getting sweaty and having to change, need to run multiple errands, need to carry cargo or passengers, want to have lunch with a friend"

Let's see:
Longer distances quickly, how long of a distance are we talking right here?

commute without getting sweaty: I smell like sweat anyway, as long as you bathe regularly you don't stink (sweat doesnt stink, it's bacteria buildup in your sweat tht does). Humans SHOULD smell like humans anyway, not flowers, and your clothes dry in a few minutes, if you're that concerned, commute in lycra and change, what's the big problem with changing?

Multiple errands: Messenger bag you can cram small people into.

Cargo: see the previous one, I can carry two minis and a full size frame or a full sized bike, plus all the other crap I wanna put in my messenger bag, I think it carries cargo pretty well, if you need more get a trailer.

Passenger: have a spare bike, or get a tandem, with a child, they make child seats for bikes, they have for decades they also make trailers, which cn double as your cargo trailer. My first memory on a bike would be in one of those plastic rear rack type child seats, way, way back in the 1980's.

Lunch with a friend across town...

I can get across town faster than most people can in their cars for most of the day. (SM-DTLA in less than an hr, my record is 43 minutes), just do the miles, after a while pretty much any mileage gets easy.

I dunno, I get around town pretty easily and do everything I need to do without a car (have for 2 1/2 years). Much of the world does pretty well without em (as they always have), especially with the bicycle considering it's the most numerous form of transportation ever. Cars are a "first world", "western" luxury.





FuzzBeast
11.29.08 - 6:35 pm

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"Cars are a "first world", "western" luxury. "

Amen.

And as a first-world westerner, I like a little luxury.

As do all those "Easterners" in China/Vietname/India/etc. that are abandoning their bikes for cars as soon as they can afford to do so. It's funny how their enviable modes of simple living disappear when given other choices and a little disposable income.

Bikes are awesome. Cars are pretty awesome too.

They're both going to be on the streets of L.A. for the foreseeable future, so the issue is how to allow both to get across town as quickly and safely and happily as possible.



JB
11.29.08 - 6:56 pm

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I own a car. I drive it a whole lot less than I used to. Jb is unfirtunately right. You have to have one in LA. Especially if you have a kid. Its just reality. You cant deny the city is designed around car transpo. However aside from having a child, I think if you don't already own a car outright then just rent cars and take cabs with walking public transpo and bicycle as alternate modes. Much cheaper. You can save $10,000 a year if you skip the new car.



Roadblock
11.29.08 - 7:12 pm

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My parents just recently got back from Italy. They said the city where my mom and I are from, people are using the car to get around a whole lot more. The city is also seeing the problems of this. Very congested streets, lack of parking, and health problems with the population. In the olden days there was congestion and problems parking, but it was manageable. Health problems from a sedentary lifestyle was nonexistent. People walked everywhere and used buses too.



User1
11.29.08 - 7:19 pm

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Roadblock, I am still contending the position of HAVING or NEEDING to have a car in LA.
I havent for quite some time, and havent noticed any problems. People have lived for most of human history without cars, and seemed to do just fine, and often were much more spread out than we are in LA. People did just fine walking and riding horses (and for about 50 years before the invention of the automobile, riding bikes).
I was transported on a bicycle as much if not more than I was in a car as a child, and I lived somewhere even MORE car unfriendly than LA (rural area full of hills that make echo park's look tiny, with high speed limits, shitty weather, and narrow roads).
I see the idea of HAVING to have a car in LA as a cop out. There is nothing that makes is a requirement. I live further from downtown (for the next 2 days) than almost everyone, in an area even more spread out, as far as services go, yet I seem to have no problem doing EVERYTHING I need to do on a bicycle or walking.



FuzzBeast
11.29.08 - 7:43 pm

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having a chauffeur drive you everywhere is really really convenient. having someone bring everything to you is really really convenient too. driving a car is convenient and easy. so is sitting at home watching tv and ordering in pizza. i know not having a sexy sportscar or any car for that matter is not going to make my life easier. but it will put my feet where my words are. i'm with fuzz on many points. especially with getting around town more quickly by bike and using a messenger bag for moderate loads. there is also the benefit of showing LA by example that bikes are a REAL option for transportation. And if WE don't do that, NO ONE will.



indigis
11.29.08 - 9:08 pm

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good point jb, but werent you supose to be working on the time you posted that

ed



Long Beach Ridda
11.29.08 - 9:30 pm

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You have to have one in LA. Especially if you have a kid.

another reason not to reproduce...kids are bad for the environment! stupid kids.



la duderina
11.29.08 - 9:57 pm

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Jb is unfirtunately right. You have to have one in LA. Especially if you have a kid. Its just reality. You cant deny the city is designed around car transpo. However aside from having a child

That whay UBray02 is always telling me. I wish he would shut up about needing a car and get one, instead of taking that kid of his everywhere on his Bakfiet. WHAT BLOW HARD!






sexy
11.29.08 - 10:20 pm

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i dont own a car and havent since ive been in la and you know what, its been wonderful. i love being able to ride everywhere, infact i was just talking about it last night, i havent even taken a bus in la. enjoy it.



theshues
11.29.08 - 10:39 pm

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It's been over 3 years since i've owned a car. It's not a problem at all, although i generally have access to cars i can borrow when needed and i do use them for certain errands. I still don't really have a need to own one, but a utility vehicle would be nice for certain occasions and camping trips.



brassknuckle
11.30.08 - 10:11 am

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It's all well and good talking about not needing a car when you have no job and responsibilities. It's very different when you've got kids, pets, a job that may keep you in the office for 10-12 hours on occasion or forces you to travel late at night or when tired. What works for one person may well not work for another. You may think people should smell like people, but if you share a small office space with 3 other folks who aren't inclined to agree, and societal norms dictate the same, then you aren't going to keep your job for long if you insist on stinking up the office and don't have a shower available. Life's a compromise, and until everyone agrees that bikes are the only mode of transport worth bothering with, you may well find that a compromise you have to make is owning a car. It's an admirable goal to be as car-free as possible, but not realistic for many folks in LA, where viable alternatives don't always exist.

I've been pretty successful at ditching all forms of internal combustion - until I got dogs. That's almost the only thing I use the car for, but it gets used for grocery shopping and other errands that require the ability to carry a load, too. Sure, I could go shopping 3 times as frequently and only buy enough to carry on my bike, but its a whole lot more convenient to get it done in a single trip. I've got better things to do with my time than go shopping.

If you don't have a daily requirement for transport, you should look into something like zipcar, which allows you access to a car for much cheaper than renting and, depending upon where you live, may be much more convenient, too.

And for what it is worth, you can own or lease car for a whole lot less than $900/month (my lease+insurance is exactly half of that). You can get a lot of car for about $5K if you shop used - something that should be reasonably reliable and still have lots of miles left in it. mid-90's toyota 4runner or similar, if you need utility. A japanese econobox from the mid to late-90s can be even cheaper. It doesn't take a lot of $30/day car rentals over the course of a year to offset the price of a cheap used car, and you can sell the car when you are done with it and recover a lot of your expenses.



ideasculptor
11.30.08 - 12:01 pm

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If this city was bike friendly like the netherlands for example I would have no problems transporting the childrens by bike.... don't get me wrong, I have hope that maybe at some point LA might be a somewhat of an inkling of a bike friendly city.... however, for the fore-see-able future I do not trust car drivers here like I would in other bike friendly cities/countries.... sure I would ferry my childrens around a small neighborhood if I lived in burbank or some quaint neighborhoods with local parks but I wouldn't ride down say hollywood blvd or even franklin for that matter and sometimes you'd have to take the childrens to the doctor cross town.... I just don't trust drivers in this town yet. Too many accidents and hit and runs with bikes. Etc.



Roadblock
11.30.08 - 3:39 pm

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So my (soon to be) baby momma and love of my life and I have decided to consolidate. She is going to give up her leased new car and drive my Toyata battlewagon, while I continue to ride my bike everywhere.... until we relocate to utopia, and can hitch rides to the free organic food co-op on the backs of wild unicorns, that is.



horse sense
11.30.08 - 3:52 pm

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I dunno, for me most of these reasons to have a car still sound like excuses, there are easy and affordable ways around all of these without a car.
I was raised close to car free, maybe that's why I don't see the need for one. All my car ever did was make me fat.
For working conditions: I was commuting 30 miles round trip a day at one point, on my bike, and doing it HARD, I sat shoulder to shoulder with a whole pile of people, and never had complaints about smell. A small wipedown in the bathroom can cover that if you feel the need. If you're clean and eat healthy, sweat doesnt really smell anyway. As to time of day or whatever, I have ridden across this town more late at night and half asleep than most other times of the day.
If you have dogs, a trailer or sidecar can transport them nicely (as well as groceries and things, if you can't cram enough into a messenger bag or something, I can cram more than a weeks worth into mine). I've seen people towing large dogs on their bikes before, and the dogs friggin love it. While in portland I saw a woman with an Airedale wearing goggles in her sidecar, and the dog couldn't have been happier.
As to kids, I dunno, numbers wise there are more fatal car accidents every year than there are bike fatalities, and they make helmets for toddlers and things, and like the photo above, Bakfiets work well for small children, as do rear seats. I wouldn't have qualms about putting a small child on a bicycle. It's safe enough for me, both now, and it was safe enough as a child, it's safe enough. I was raised this way. The only side effect is the kids are probably going to be gung ho about bikes when they get older.



FuzzBeast
11.30.08 - 4:37 pm

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Back when I worked for the police department, I used to commute to work on the fixed gear everyday. I would work 5-16 hour shifts (any time of the day), and would sometimes find myself going home very tired. I could take a shower if I got sweaty because the PD is pretty much a 2nd home that has everything you may need for a couple of days at a time.

The only huge negative was safety (considering the line of work). Going to work and going home after work involved different routes, different time-tables (sometimes I would stay over at the station for up to 3 hours after my shift), and making sure no one was following you home or plotting to kill you.

I had one incident where a driver was stalking me and attempted to run me over. After that I drove my car for a few days, and then got back on the bike.

So I can see both sides of the argument. A lot of the reasons we list for using cars are excuses. But sometimes, you do need a car. And a gun.



el_spaniard
11.30.08 - 5:03 pm

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Some of us just aren't that into using bikes as our main means of transportation, and we don't have to justify that choice, anymore than those who do use bikes as their main means of transportation have to justify getting around at a top speed of 25mph on a vehicle that has a fatality rate multiple times higher per mile traveled than a car does.

If you like your bike, or your car, or both your bike AND your car, that's your choice.

You don't get any prizes for choosing one over the other, it's just a matter of personal preference.

The real issue is how we can make all these transportation options work harmoniously and efficiently to let us all get around town as safely and happily and quickly as possible.



JB
11.30.08 - 5:42 pm

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"The real issue is how we can make all these transportation options work harmoniously and efficiently to let us all get around town as safely and happily and quickly as possible."

Yeah, the fewer cars the more harmonious things will be. It's a simple idea. You're just being an apologist for the shitty planning of this region and ignoring all the great cities around the world where people don't need cars.



toweliesbong
11.30.08 - 5:48 pm

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Depending on how the work situation for me will look in the next, few weeks, I may look into getting me a K5 for shits'n'giggles.



bentstrider
11.30.08 - 6:20 pm

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JB, you DO have to justify that choice. Every gallon of gas you pump into your car is in need of justification. Those wars all over the other parts of the world created by the US in need of oil need justification. The obesity problem in this country is in need of justification. The illogical, wasteful system we have created around the ICE (both for the transportation of people as well as goods) is in need of justification.
The less people driving, the less these things will need to be even issues.
People did JUST FINE for thousands of thousands of years before the internal combustion engine, and they will do fine afterward.


PS- WHO says 25 mph is my top speed?



FuzzBeast
11.30.08 - 6:29 pm

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Oh and how much of that "multiple times the fatality rate" (please provide statistics), is due to CARS? Probably 99% of it. Without a car it's hard to kill yourself on a bicycle.



FuzzBeast
11.30.08 - 6:31 pm

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Living without a car in LA is doable. It is a matter of overcoming our addiction to ease, to conformity, to status and ego gratification. Granted this statement is over simplification. You may work many dangerous miles away from your job and need to show up in a suit (yea, that sounds like a lot of MR riders). But I suspect that most people are simply resistant to change.



indigis
11.30.08 - 6:55 pm

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And most times I do take the bus in downtown, it's mainly to avoid dealing with shit-drivers along Whittier and Venice.

I mean, why risk a gunfight, when you could save all that energy for a nice, brisk ride with the peeps near the ocean??



bentstrider
11.30.08 - 7:00 pm

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"You may work many dangerous miles away from your job and need to show up in a suit".

We shouldn't be working many miles away from our jobs.



toweliesbong
11.30.08 - 7:01 pm

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That's why I like my job.

Despite the current company being shit, I'm at least able to park my office in front of my hive.



bentstrider
11.30.08 - 7:03 pm

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Fuzzbeast, I truly appreciate your conviction that a car is not needed in L.A.

I just rode in to work today from my new home. I drove my car last night to move the rest of my stuff, and then put it into hibernation indefinitely. I started riding with MR 3 months ago, and knew I needed to make some lifestyle changes. It wasn't just MR, also my inclination to make more environmentally smart choices that gave me motivation. It's not my first time commuting and traveling by bike, but it's been a few years. I started doing work that involved a lot of traveling. Bouncing all over L.A. in a day. I put 50K miles on my car in two years. Then I got tired of it. I evaulated my priorities. I wanted to be healthy, live simpler, be a better environmentalist. And have a greater connection to my surroundings. I'm happier now.

I love being on my bike. I love running into other riders all over the place. I love being able to weave through cars in the thick of morning traffic. I love the adrenaline rush. I love not needing a car to get around. I used to always sit in traffic, staring out at the sea of cars, wondering, "why do we waste so many hours of our lives doing THIS?" I do not miss that.

Two wheels good!



kryxtanicole
12.1.08 - 9:43 am

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i have never "needed" a car, never owned, leased, but rented on very few times. You dont need a car in la meng, suck it up



pretti*ugli
12.1.08 - 2:10 pm

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I've lived in LA since August and have not had a car the entire time. I used a car to move out here, but from that learned that if I were to drive in this city, I'd probably end up in jail for second degree murder. I have a road rage problem. lol and so I sold my car and bought a really nice laptop :)

Recently, my parents visited and I took them in their car on a little tour around the streets of LA, showing them the cool things MR has showed me. Biking LA has definitely made me even MORE impatient in a car I realized, because the whole time I'm thinking GOD if I were on a bike I'd BE THERE BY NOW!! Especially going up vermont! I was just trying to show my dad the bicycle kitchen and I had to wait for the light to turn like three times. my god I almost popped a blood vessel in my brain.

I don't have the patience to drive in this city. There are times when it would be way more convenient though.



la duderina
12.1.08 - 2:39 pm

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I went car free several months ago and haven't missed it one bit. I had already reduced my trips to such a low number it didn't make sense to own anymore. When I need to extend my range or are feeling tired, I combine public transit and cycling. If I really need a car, I'll just rent one, it will be much cheaper and then I can pick the car according to the needs of the particular trip.

Going car free was quite liberating for me when I finally took the leap. No more parking tickets, no more repairs, no more oil change, no more insurance payments, no more cleaning bird crap. Having a spot to live close to work greatly helped in making the choice as my daily commuting is very minimal.

This weekend Meghan and I took the red line to union station, hopped on Amtrak to San Luis Obispo and rode our loaded bikes winding around down to Santa Barbara camping along the way. We then took the train from Santa Barbara back to LA. It was one of the greatest vacations I've ever had, and no car required.

For my blog posts on deciding to go car free click here for posts tagged car free.



GarySe7en
12.1.08 - 2:39 pm

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Oh man that SLO trip sounds FUN!!! Was it a total blast or what??



la duderina
12.1.08 - 2:43 pm

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It was awesome. I really wish I had the time off to have stretched it out longer. I'll be writing up a detailed post for my blog on the whole thing later after I go through the pics and the notes we took.



GarySe7en
12.1.08 - 2:51 pm

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Oh and for some great material on making the choice to go car free in LA, check out green LA girl's ongoing series of blog posts with interviews of car free ladies in LA. Our very own Enci is one of the woman featured in an interview.

It really gets into the details of it, the ups and downs, and how each woman makes it work and why.



GarySe7en
12.1.08 - 2:55 pm

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I went carless for my first ten months in LA. I rented a couple times and checked out FlexCar, but the flexcars were always parked in downtown and thus totally useless to me in the valley. They got taken over by zipcar, and the cars are still only around UCLA and USC campuses.

I gave up and bought a car mainly because I wanted the freedom to go anywhere, anytime, and because I could not bike to the mountain with my snowboard. I also gave up because I was getting more and more sketched out by the metro. A guy was flipping out one night on the subway and acting like he was about to kill some random riders, and the asshole driving the train yelled at us when we got on the intercom and asked for help. That was the last straw for me, and I've only used the metro a handful of times since then when I absolutely had to.

I did the opposite when I lived in pdx, I went so long without using my car there that I sold it and went 100% bike until I moved to socal. Having friends with cars who go everywhere you're going helps a lot.



mullingitover
12.1.08 - 3:00 pm

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that was a cool blog!

"Also, as far as dating goes, I figure if they aren’t willing to pick me up, they aren’t really worth the time." - hahaha...I've decided that if they're not going to show up at my door on a bike then they're not worth the time.



la duderina
12.1.08 - 3:09 pm

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I agree duderina.



FuzzBeast
12.1.08 - 3:22 pm

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