DONATION!?
Thread started by
sexy at 03.26.08 - 6:28 pm
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yeah why not. helps pay for the cost of hosting.... thanks for the donation Gary!
Roadblock03.26.08 - 6:38 pm
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That buttons is harshing on my design senses maan.
franz03.26.08 - 6:40 pm
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ahh for fucks sake.... I will change it. gimme a second stupid default paypal button
Roadblock03.26.08 - 6:42 pm
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geez its just a freakin button!!! who cares how it looks.
funanu03.26.08 - 7:05 pm
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Finally man, been wondering when you would do this.
Drew03.26.08 - 8:04 pm
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thanks Ideasculptor!
thanks barleye!
Roadblock03.26.08 - 10:35 pm
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"Oh, noooo! Thank YOU!!!!"
My thoughts exactly. MR is priceless.
toweliesbong03.27.08 - 12:16 am
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donations for.....? please clarify...
tomato03.27.08 - 9:51 am
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"help support this website" and put roadblock's kids through college!
neverclever03.27.08 - 10:29 am
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I'm not exactly sure how to answer that question other than that the money goes straight to me. I would use it first and foremost to pay for hosting and maintaining the site... and I would like to raise enough to guarantee that it will be hosted for the foresee-able future as the traffic starts to grow and the gallery requires more storage space and the database begins to incurr costs etc. but then there obviously questions like how much is needed and how would I compensate people like Ephemerae who is volunteering his time to improve the site. on that note I seriously doubt that enough money would ever be raised to pay him legitimately but it would probably make his day if some of the money was used to buy the man beers and food for his time. If his improvements work out well that would mean long requested things like multiple photo uploads would be a reality however that would also mean increased bandwidth and storage costs.... shit doesnt run for free but right now the expenses are not outrageous.
obviously Sexy (and presume-ably others) is uncomfortable with it as he is uncomfortable with me running the site itself... so I put it out there.... does it make people uncomfortable? should I find a different way to fund the site moving forward? I'm not crazy about getting all formal and becoming a 501c but it has been brought up... and so far dismissed.... and I and others I've talked to have felt that the informal nature of this community is what makes it thrive.
to tell the truth I did it on a whim having seen similar buttons on other sites but it also makes me feel uncomfortable because the money does go straight to me personally and thus more responsible as the owner and operator of the site. I have considered alternatives such as selling all the bootleg ridazz gear through a community consignment shared profit store (which may still happen) or having shop sponsors. I never want to see straight banner ads go up on this site even though orgininally when I made the site I did see that as a way to support costs and my time spent managing the site. but I've found that I just enjoy it even though it takes up time. but the costs so far have not been too bad probably in the range of $500 in terms of hosting costs. again, as this grows and improvements are made it's going to cost money and I think its good to start addressing it now rather than come out of pocket later.
PS thanks Marino!
Roadblock03.27.08 - 11:13 am
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Yes to keeping it ad free if possible. Thanks for all the work that goes into this RB.
And I'll be glad to personally thank ephemerae with hugs & beerz.
canadienne03.27.08 - 11:23 am
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Roadblock I am so with you on this topic! I don't care what you do with the money just don't put banner ads on this site. Do you know how whack that would be after all that MR has accomplished? Do people that visit this site all day long (like myself even tho I dont sign in every time) think this shit is for free? Do people know how lame programming can be? Have a ride called 'Stingy Ridazz' and make sure they post a photo gallery...
I am so donating right now, and I personally hope you do something like drink, smoke, or eat with what I send.
How much do you people spend on your bikes?
tallcans4tallbikes03.27.08 - 11:25 am
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thanks Skidmarcus!
thanks Daniel!
thanks Stephanie!
Roadblock03.27.08 - 11:36 am
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I'm on a couple of sites that are user-supported and it works very well. I would suggest that you generate some kind of quarterly report so that folks can see where their money is going (but not where it is coming from. Donations should be voluntary and anonymous). Posting said report tends to generate enough donations to pay for the upcoming quarter, too. Definitely don't be shy about asking for funds to run this place. If every person who posts regularly on this site gives up $5, you'll have more than enough to cover hosting costs for the next year if they stay in line with what you've spent so far. And I'm betting some will give more than that.
ideasculptor03.27.08 - 11:38 am
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CAN WE INTEREST YOU IN SOME MUTUAL FUN?
SKIDMARCUS03.27.08 - 11:58 am
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that buttons is harshing on my design senses maan.
franz
03.26.08 - 9:40 pm
lolz!
I guess you put up a new button which is fucking great! my own little skull icon is reminding me to donate. The new button is classy!
Man RB, maximum props for finally taking this step.
Anybody who has helped put on an MR scale ride knows how much work and money goes into such an endeavor, and very few people appreciate that somebody payed for that spokecard out of their own pocket. Sure 25¢ isn't much but multiply that by 400 ridazz and that is serious dough that people throw down so you can remember your ride. Of course the website is no different.
The only other real fundraising that I know of was the money raised from tee-shirts from the last two years of Noche De Las Meurtes. That worked super well, because everything got dumped right into the Toy Rides 1&2. Which made for some awesome partying and of course helped to get toyz out to the needy kidz.
Anyway. The button is great, it totally does the job. And its way classier that 99.9% of every other plea for funds that i have ever seen.
I think it would be rad to have more tee-shirts, stickers, and patches for sale from time to time. Just so people could represent the Ridazz.
I think banner ads would suck. And the only underwriting I would want to see would maybe be at the bottom of the "about the ridazz" page. For now I am pretty happy that it would read.
This Site is Paid for by Ridazz Like You.
Thanks for keepin' the site rollin' RB I'm sure there will be no shortage for good uses for the money once you have reooped some of your out-a-pockets.
trickmilla03.27.08 - 12:25 pm
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more BIKES ON THE STREET patches! i would take the KARP patch off my bag for one.
ruinedbyidiots03.27.08 - 12:34 pm
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I agree
I really like the idea of shirts and assorted forms of output
I know e-rock and some others are workin on a zine, which is incredibly exciting
from what i've gathered so far we have a massively creative community on our hands, LETS MAKE SHIT!!! woo!!
hartwick, youre a pussy03.27.08 - 12:36 pm
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great ideas sculptor... initial thought is that yes donations should be anonymous... I will stop posting a thanks on this thread since it can be seen as tantamount to begging and people should feel equal part of the community whether they donate to this site or not. the fact is that everyone who posts rides and creates a fun vibe and experience is donating to the FUN cause with their time and that is enough in and of itself. instead I will write a personal note of thanks to the contributors.
posting quarterly reports is something to consider if this turns into a 501c but other than that I'm going to be accountable for taxes on the money so it would be hard to report what the actual amount raised is until the tax man cometh and taketh away at the end of the year... it also implies that there is some sort of funding goal which gets into telethon territory which sucks... there is no goal to be reached there is simply money that will be available for hosting and managing this site into the for-see-able future and to keep the site ad free.... make some stickers too.
also I will NOT accept cash or money in person so dont even try it. I will stop coming to the rides if that becomes the case.
Roadblock03.27.08 - 12:38 pm
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I call dibs on bending frames for fixed jesus!
neverclever03.27.08 - 12:50 pm
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No 501c3
thankxforglowybuttonitsblowinmimind.
franz03.27.08 - 1:02 pm
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spiral will you please fix your damn email address? for the last two years everytime I've mailed you it have been returned undeliver-able. tell your host to unblock MR for chrissake!
Roadblock03.27.08 - 1:06 pm
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hahaha my email provider is down right now its coming!
come here big guy!
Roadblock03.27.08 - 1:13 pm
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kinda, dak set it up to forward to his real address, hahaha
neverclever03.27.08 - 1:16 pm
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try my gmail account if you need to send anything. I'm slowly getting rid of my excite account
spiraldemon03.27.08 - 1:26 pm
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Roadlblock, I'm taking a cue from my sister who's worked for non-profits for years, both abroad and in the states. Some of them were very informal, grass-roots organizations, and she came up against the question of where the money goes pretty much on a daily basis.
Even if it never becomes an official non-profit, it would be good to have transparency -- have the information about where the money goes available. (You're spot on on the "not where it comes from" point, though -- not good, and not even helpful.) Maybe there could be a page in the About the Ridazz section that's updated quarterly/yearly/whenever you fucking feel like it that has a brief rundown of the operating costs and how much money came in (so we know when we need to step up). If the information's always available, then anyone who gives you hassle can be calmly directed to the page. Open bookkeeping is my favorite kind of bookkeeping.
"Bookkeeping." Three double letters in a row. Look at that.
As for the televangelism ride, I call dibs on speaking in tongues.
katiepoche03.27.08 - 1:32 pm
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okay great thanks for all you do! i contributed.
tomato03.27.08 - 2:19 pm
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I'll be hand delivering my donation.
See ya this weekend.
User103.27.08 - 2:24 pm
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I think the best thing is to post, probably on a monthly basis, what money was pulled in, and where exactly it is spent. Transparency is the word, I'm sure, people want.
I have NO problem donating to this site. I have no problem giving Roadblock, et al., a beer or two, or a hit of smoke. Some people clearly do, but that's how grassroots organizations work, on trust. Roadblock has put more work, time & money into this site than anyone has asked for. And based on the time we all spend on here, it's clear that we haven't really carried our share of the real costs. Yes, we contribute to the site & the rides with our presence, our energies, etc. But the reality is, this shit's not free.
If someone thinks patches, tshirts, & other swag, for sale, to benefit the site & the rides, etc. will work. Then MAKE IT HAPPEN. You don't need Roadblock's permission. That's the nature of this type of community. If you have a good idea, that will benefit the community, DO IT! Make it happen.
I've organized rides, events, parties, and all kinds of other shit. It's almost always out of my pocket, or the pockets of my co-conspirators. But we never ask for money, you will never pay admission. But we will, and have, asked for donations. Sometimes these donations are in the form of time & sometimes money.
I challenge YOU ALL, to come up with ways to support Midnight Ridazz, the site & the rides.
the reverend dak03.27.08 - 2:37 pm
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You guys are WRONG WRONG WRONG!
The button should not be attractive and in harmony with the design of the site. It should be ugly and stand out like a sore thumb, so that cheap personfriends cannot claim that they didn't see it! Ha, ha, ha!
PAM03.27.08 - 2:41 pm
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"If someone thinks patches, tshirts, & other swag, for sale, to benefit the site & the rides, etc. will work. Then MAKE IT HAPPEN. You don't need Roadblock's permission."
actually that's not quite true. the logo mark and the name are trademarked specifically to prevent someone from unauthorized and especially rampant commercial use. its trademarked precisely to prevent a situation where by if someone were to try to take the name and manufacture a shirt that sold a hundred thousand units... who then would get paid? what would that do for our experience? as it is now people make bootleg self manufactured patches and shirts in low quantities but they do it discretely and generally not for profit and that tends to be ok. I hope it never gets out of hand. thats when the joy goes away.
as for the site, I was simply looking for a way for it to be sustain-able on it's own and for it to become bigger WITHOUT advertising or sponsorship. some new changes are in the pipeline that will likely increase costs and I would be faced with a bigger internet bill and a bigger management burden. It's likely that I will still have to come out of pocket at the end of the day as the donations would decline (because I dont want to see it turn into a telethon) and I'm fine with that. but I dont care to start becoming scrutinized or have people wonder why the site isnt improving at a faster rate etc... so maybe I should change the button to say "beer money" so that the lowest of expectations are had. the money that comes in is personally tax-able and it's taxed at a rate based on my personal income in general so there is no telling what the true value of it is until the end of the year and even then its personal information and then people will want to verify it and.... it just starts down a path that frankly I'm starting to regret... and sadly didnt give enough thought to begin with.
and NO I will not be accepting any money in person. so forget about that option. SERIOUSLY.
Roadblock03.27.08 - 3:57 pm
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I thinks you should change the button to say......................................
"hookers and blow fund"
On a serious note, how is the "Wolfpack Hustle Enterprise" fairing out.
You haven't had to issue "cease and desist" letter to bootleggers?
sexy03.27.08 - 4:10 pm
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so far we havent made dick squat. but my body has transformed completely.
Roadblock03.27.08 - 4:14 pm
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with all those strong guys riding every week like that. I ' m sure you could get some "dick squat" if you road in the right neighborhoods.
sexy03.27.08 - 4:30 pm
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badum bump!
hahaha dont forget we have strong girls too. ;)
Roadblock03.27.08 - 4:32 pm
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"the logo mark and the name are trademarked specifically to prevent someone from unauthorized and especially rampant commercial use."
I forgot about this. I totally understand why it was done. Midnight Ridazz isn't the only organization that has come to this. That other organization is Burning Man. That organization has become an LLC, and the purpose of the LLC & the copyright protection of the name Burning Man, was for the EXACT SAME REASONS. To protect the name & identity (trademark, etc.) from being abused, stolen, or profited from without the say of the community. I understand this, I get it. And I see both sides of the argument. I believe this is one of Sexy's biggest beefs with Roadblock. But in this day and age, in this capitalist society, that we live in, we have to follow the rules. And the rules are that we have to use the SYSTEM to "protect" what is ours, and those rules state that these protections are done via registering copyrights, trademarks, etc. blah blah, I can go on and on...
So, roadblock. Let's say that I want to design some button, patches or t-shirts, for Midnight Ridazz, and all the money will proceed future rides and the site. How should we go about this? How do reserve the rights, so to speak?
As far as I know, no one has actively tried to profit from the Midnight Ridazz. No one better. Or they would have a whole community on their ass. Am I right? This is Sexy's argument, which I personally believe in. We don't need the SYSTEM to protect what is ours. Because, whether Roadblock legally owns the trademark or not, Midnight Ridazz belongs to US. We're fortunate that is IS roadblock that owns the trademark, and the site, etc. Because I DO trust him, and that the decisions he makes for the site, or the rides, or the brand, will only benefit the community.
So, yeah. What's my point?
I think it's fine that Roadblock is asking for some dollars to help support the site.
I think it's OK that Roadblock currently owns the MR trademarks.
I think we should pick up some slack and do even more to benefit the Ridazz Community as a whole.
the reverend dak03.27.08 - 4:35 pm
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That's my website above. I think It's the equivelant to old school skateboarding / z-boys / Dogtown, etc. as what MR is to modern day cyclists. It's always been ad and corporate free since its inception and It always will be. Donations are good and shouldn't be frowned upon. When I had a message board on the z-boys.com site, people donated and it went straight to the site. I could easily set up a store and make a ton of dough...but that's not what it's all about....at least for me. Most of the photos are borrowed with a link or credit to the photographer. Ads make a site look cheap.
that's my $.02
Now go check out z-boys.com
barleye
03.27.08 - 4:39 pm
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I like it when it said beer money better.
I never got to start a thread with that one.
sexy03.27.08 - 7:12 pm
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ok so I'm not that savvy, how do I make a do nation
Limeyfly03.27.08 - 7:38 pm
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I fucking love MR, and couldn't imagine a better group of people to spend my nights with !!!!!
I love the idea of fellow ridazz contributing "homemade" grassroots style swag (t-shirts, stickers, spoke cards...) to sell for the benefit of the community (such as hosting costs).
I have a vinyl cutter and would be willing to make MR skulls in all sizes and colors for you (Roadblock) to sell.....and I know there are other talented people out there with even better ideas.
I also have a 4 color t-shirt thingy (but no idea how to use it)...maybe I'll plan a "Teach LizardQueen How to use the Damn T-shirt thing" RIDE.
LizardQueen03.27.08 - 7:38 pm
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I don't need to know what RB does with the money. (All $300 of it) I don't want to see receipts and spreadsheets. He is the listmom. He is responsible for this site 24/7/365. How much is that worth? As someone who has a 24/7/365 job, I tell you at least 100K / year.
Since he is not making anything near that, he doesn't owe us anything.
Of course when someone starts making a couple of dollars others get jealous and start nitpicking. Well... if you think RB doesn't deserve anything don't send anything if you think it's worth something, send something but don't put rules and conditions, it's not worth it.
There are many ways to make money in this country but trying to please a few hundred assorted individuals is not one of them.
marino03.27.08 - 7:39 pm
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how do I send dosh????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Limeyfly03.27.08 - 7:42 pm
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Harry look in the top left corner right above your name.
marino03.27.08 - 7:44 pm
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@ rev dak,
no, mr does not belong to "US". it belongs to rb. as it should. if he profits from it, how much he profits from it, why he doesn't profit from it, if he ever sells it, what he eventually does about it, is his business alone. you and i and the rest of US are guests in his house (website). my donation was no different than when i bring a bottle of wine to a party. a way of saying thank you. and i don't follow up the gift with asking how much they paid for the food.
indigis03.27.08 - 8:36 pm
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indigis wrote:
no, mr does not belong to "US". it belongs to rb. as it should.
Um, no.
PC03.28.08 - 4:00 am
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I agree with Marino,
I don't care how he, or anyone who work on MR in the future, spends the money. Hell the extra work to be "transparent", is really just another job he doesn't need. This is not the IRS and you don't have to give.
If you believe it is worth supporting, give. If not, then what's any different really than a week or two ago for you.
Actually the experience should improve anyway, since the proposed upgrades will make it work better.
As far as who owns what, I'm glad RB controls/governs the logo, name , ya ya ya. WE ALL OWN THE FUNNNNN!!!! We all help to make it work.
I'm just glad to have an avenue to take a little pressure off RB's back her and there.
Drew03.28.08 - 6:11 am
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@pc
enlighten me. how am i mistaken? really.
indigis03.28.08 - 6:50 am
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thanks indigis but PC is right. Midnight Ridazz belongs to the community. Everyone who creates rides and enjoys the FUN is a part of what Midnight Ridazz is. Does that mean anyone can profit off the name? hell no. and that the community would defend the name is true. does that mean that shirts can't be made? good question.
Dak thanks for your trust. I intend to keep that trust forever.
Do people "need" to do more? need is a strong word... so... in that case no. They should "want" to do more if it so pleases them and hopefully we can all continue to steer this thing so that more people are wanting to do more. If not, then not. It's organic, it could very well die.... but it's currently ALIVE. and as it is I think everything is going great I LOVE MARCUS's RIDAZZ BUS. I LOVE JOE BORFO's ROAD TRIPS, I LOVE the folks from other cities who let us crash and defile them. I love that the ride calendar is PACKED. There are rides happening all week and we can all feel like kids and bums and freaks and hang out with people from every living generation. the rides are free for everyone to join and people can do as little as post a ride and people will gather or they can make it all elaborate and spend a lot of time and if they promote it right more people will gather. That's it. that's all this is about.
When someone throws a ride they pay for the spoke cards and their time spent creating them. Sometimes ride leaders take up a collection amongst themselves and sometimes they just pay for it themselves. so that button up there is simply taking up a global collection should you feel the urge to help ME out with costs. if no-one donates, then nothing against anyone who doesnt. The money will be used to pay for hosting costs as the traffic is growing and the demand for new features is there and it will be used for buying people that work on the site beers and food here and there. I dread the day we would see ads put in place to support the costs so for now it's there as an experiment and I bet it will work. Do I want to be subject to financial scrutiny? No. Do I want people to make Ridazz schwag to help pay for the rides or the site? No. Is it cool that people self manufacture Ridazz patches and t-shirts? sometimes yes sometimes no. it depends on how much of it is being made, the design of it, the profit margin and the motives behind it. I'm a huge fan of Fugazi so lets just say that's where I see this resting.... I think we all would frown if this thing becomes commercialized and thus the threat of that frown seems to be what keeps it where it's at.......
Roadblock03.28.08 - 1:56 pm
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