NOTE: All timestamps are in the future because WE are in the future. The care takers of Midnight Ridazz.com reserves the right to remove, edit, move or delete anything for any reason. None of the opinions expressed on these boards represent the Midnight Ridazz nor can anyone purport to speak on behalf of Midnight Ridazz.
is there some copyright infringement going on with this garbage? would you have to contact roadblock to use the likeness and name of midnight ridazz? i mean, at the bottom of this page it even says
yeah... but if you look at the "behind the scenes" section, there's a crap load of "MIDNIGHT RIDAZZ" photos, including the one Gary Se7en took of an ALC Midnight Ridazz jersey... which I'm assuming he didn't consent to? Maybe he did? Gary?
My internet connection is too slow to watch any video, but this can only be a blessing.
So did they film the thing during an actual MR ride? If so, I must assume that all the "extras" will be getting their checks in the mail any day now. Unless they got everyone to sign releases and whatnot?
Eh, I dunno. I'm just being snarky for the hell of it. Since I can't watch the video, the only thing I have a right to be offended about is the sponsorship by Banana Republic. Banana Republic offends me on principle.
I can't tell if it was an actual MR ride. Didn't seem like enough riders to make up an actual MR ride...
I just think it's fucked up to use the Midnight Ridazz name and then make the riders look like dicks. This video makes me fucken depressed when dude says no to that poor kid. like damn that is fucked up. Then he's all riding alone, no one stops to help him with his flat. poor guy. No one I've met on MR would be like that. No one.
I'm sorry, but how does that film, regardless of the fact that it was sponsored by a company that you dislike (I'm not a BR fan either) kill Midnight Ridazz? You may not like it or who its sponsored by, but I don't think it's got THAT much power.
sinaphile responding to a comment by ruinedbyidiots
08.16.09 - 10:42 pm
Yeah, and I thought about it for a bit, watched it again, and did think that was a bit off, so you're right on that. HOWEVER, there are a bunch of shots of him riding with the rest of the folks and seeming to be having a good time, and they did make a point of saying that those people were just one group amongst a larger one. But point taken for sure.
sinaphile responding to a comment by larsenf
08.16.09 - 11:12 pm
its dead because its blatant commercialization of an anti-commercial subculture. the nike ride was different. yes, it was posted on the site, but it wasnt a "midnight ridazz" ride like the one in the above video was.
Some lonely hipster rolls up to the start of a group bike ride that looks an awful lot like MR. Instead of just riding with the big group like anybody with a brain would, he inexplicably asks permission from some alleged cool kid, who refuses him this permission. Dejected, he turns away, but not before noticing an allegedly hot chick with the alleged cool kid. You can tell that they're cool / hot because they have Chrome bags and are rocking Banana Republic threads.
Cut to the 2nd Street tunnel, I guess, where the lonely hipster gets a flat and, like any prudent cyclist, stops immediately in the middle of a large group of rolling riders. While trying to fix the flat, he is assisted by the hot chick. They listen to music together, thus cementing their bond as people who enjoy music and ensuring years and years of emotional satisfaction and wet sticky sex to come.
Cut to a split screen of several hundred apartment bedrooms in Los Angeles, where everybody who was an extra in this thing comes home from whatever he or she was doing today, checks the forum, sees this video, and commits suicide.
PC responding to a comment by Shade
08.16.09 - 11:38 pm
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ok I need to watch this pronto. I'm all for cycling culture blowing up through viral video exposure, if it gets more people on bikes.. more power to em. But when the companies and media dip their hands in it, like always..... generates really shitty stereotypes about the people. That makes me a very sad panda... Not to be off subject but I'm going with my girlfriend to San Fran Tomorrow, any places I should check out to get my cycle fix?
Shade responding to a comment by PC
08.16.09 - 11:44 pm
The link has a bad word so when you post it its fucked up.
Just go to the google and type vanity fair agenda. the first link should take you to the site. click on the site where it says. Banana republic & vanity fair CITY STORIES.
the one with the bikes is the short to watch.
Foldie responding to a comment by sinaphile
08.16.09 - 11:45 pm
The URL contains the word "fag," which is filtered out by the forum software. You can bypass the filter by breaking up the offending word with empty html tags, which would create a cut-n-paste link like this:
In the actual video the only place the MR name appears is in the thank yous in the credits. On the website, however, to the left of the video, it says straight up "boy meets girl at Midnight Ridazz Los Angeles."
I'm glad I was right in thinking you wouldn't approve the use of the MR name for some bullshit like that.
what i ment by this is that it represents moreso the burningman /salton sea/ community of friends aspect of MR.. which obv this short isnt really portraying.
So, "edgy" and "alternative" actually means being really cliquish and exclusive and riding around with big enclosed headphones?
MR has never been about saving the cancers and certainly has its excesses, but come on, it's just about the LEAST exclusive thing around. And heck, it's even fun sometimes.
Any mentions of MR and Roadblock should be excised, too, it makes it look like it's somehow approved or endorsed by MR, which is totally plausible to an outsider who may not realize that Roadblock is not the Dear Leader and MR is not a real organization.
by golly...could you imagine some one refusing another to join a ride. At least, they could have had him join the ride then get a flat and have the hot chick help him... And her skull candy things are just not practical she must have been trailing a phonograph.
Anyone notice the amazingly consistent locations too?
Kid gets a flat in somewhere that looks like it's on riverside drive or at least in the area near the river or out east/northeast of dtla (the "start" looks like it was filmed at hollenbeck or something) the flat fix scene is on the back side of california plaza's parking garage, on Under Grand, then suddenly they're walking away in the middle of the square at Chinatown Plaza.... with the shot between the two being the bridge on mission by lincoln park. After he rides out of chinatown he then meets up with the ride about 200 feet south of hollenbeck where the road goes up the hill, then final shot is back down in chinatown..
yay for continuity, and I mean it's not like they had to film the scripted scenes at stops on the ride, but they could have at least not made them so blatantly, visually, dissonant.
this movie is so kewl. it speaks to me. but seriously i wouldn't want that guy to ride with me either. and when he was turned down the guy was pretty nice. "no you can't ride. okay see you later." or something like that. haha... what? no ridazz left behind!
okay so the part where the cool guy says "no" to the newcomer is completely lame and pretty unrealistic. that just kills the entire short film right there within the first 20 seconds.
i know Banana Republic is a corporation of evil --BUT-- i think that they were just one of the financial backers on this film. the whole program seems to be about giving young, aspiring film-makers a chance to produce their own projects and hopefully get their names out there. they are probably given almost carte blanche with the form and content of the films so long as they sport Banana Republic threads.
watch the video blogs with writer/director Kuang Lee. he made this film using Midnight Ridazz as the backdrop because it's one of the first things he did after moving to Echo Park. he also makes the obligatory "i love Banana Republic" statements which is only the first of MANY acts of selling out that he will make during his forthcoming Hollywood career.
file your script complaints with the film makers. as for Banana Republic and Vanity Fair, i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and saying kudos for supporting young artists and giving these people a chance to make it.
i know Banana Republic is a corporation of evil --BUT-- i think that they were just one of the financial backers on this film. the whole program seems to be about giving young, aspiring film-makers a chance to produce their own projects and hopefully get their names out there. they are probably given almost carte blanche with the form and content of the films so long as they sport Banana Republic threads.
creative marketing is still marketing. personally, i feel Midnight Ridazz should not have their name associated with consumerism. In this case, it's on the synopsis, which is way out of line. you shouldnt be able to buy Midnight Ridazz in a store.
that was pretty bad.... mostly because of the "you can't ride with us" line and the fact that I clearly told them not to use the Midnight Ridazz name or likeness...
they seemed pretty harmless and I assume they weren't intentionally trying to defame Midnight Ridazz with that lousy script line.... but it does make us look like dicks....
so what can be done? can they be sued to take the name down?
this was the tail end of the correspondence I had with Melissa it's pretty clear I think:
"Hi Melissa,
Thanks for explaining everything.
I doubled check with some of the ridazz that be and came to similar conclusions. Please do NOT use the Midnight Ridazz midnight riders, name, likeness, logo, or slogan in your film. Ridazz, Midnight Ridazz, Rida and "No Rida left behind." No rider left behind.
When you guys film please would appreciate if you could be be discrete and refrain from asking people to pose or act for the film or asking them to sign releases.
Please do not attempt to follow the mass in a car or motorized vehicle. A camera crew from abc tried that once and the results were not good mixing the two types of traffic.
Thanks
-roadblock
On Thu, 7 May 2009 12:30 pm, Melissa Lee wrote:
Hi
I appreciate your taking the time to communicate with me on this. I don't have anything to hide about this project so I hope I can be as detailed as possible.
I am an independent producer. I finished film grad school at USC in 2007 and have been working as an independent producer since. The first feature I produced is premiering this June at the Los Angeles Film Festival (you can see the trailer at the link below if you're curious, it's a low-budget comedy set in high school about a young half Alaskan native girl growing up in Alaska).
My relationship with Film Independent is that myself and the director are both fellows in Film Independent's talent development program, Project:Involve. Project:Involve is Film Independent's diversity program that fosters the careers of filmmakers from
communities traditionally underrepresented in the film industry. Each year, the filmmakers are selected through a competitive process and receive one-on-one film industry mentors, access to production-based master workshops taught by film professionals, career development training, and industry networking opportunities.
As part of the fellowship program, we are asked to create 3-minute short films (see attached letter of verification). Through a creative partnership with Banana Republic and Vanity Fair, Film Independent is providing us with a small cash stipend to cover feeding people, clothing, camera/sound equipment rental, props, post production. As I mentioned, Banana Republic donated clothing to clothe our lead actor. Vanity Fair's involvement is that the films will be available online for public viewing at v!@#$?enda.com. Other than that, we the filmmakers have not had any interaction with Banana Republic or Vanity Fair at all. We as filmmakers retain the rights to the finished film, so we would love to submit the finished film to festivals after. There are a few bicycle film festivals that I think would be great to show the short at.
We are not being paid to do these shorts, nor are our actors. The cash stipend they provide barely covers hard costs. We are doing this in our free time as an opportunity to collaborate and create a film that celebrates one of the great things about living in LA. Both the director and I were avid cyclists before this opportunity came about and he wanted to do a film based on his own first experience on the ride.
As for the crowd release, we will be careful not to have anyone in the film that hasn't agreed to be in it, so I don't want to bother you about posting it (I've pasted at the bottom of my email what it would have been, fyi). We're shooting all the dialogue scenes between the actors on another night. We were just hoping to film on the ride to capture and convey the magnitude of riders riding through the night.
I hope this information is helpful. Please let me know what other questions I can answer.
i never said it isn't marketing. obviously Banana Republic gets their product placed in cool indie short films. of course their is a trade-off as to why BR is giving away money to young film-makers. all i'm saying is -- as is confirmed by the letter RB posted -- the content is the film makers' doing.
anyway, the name Midnight Ridazz is trademarked so i believe you could legally ask them to pull it from the film.
bottom line is what's the worst that could happen? kids see this film and decide not to attend an MR ride because of that one line? or will we see a bunch of new kids show up sporting Banana Republic gear? who cares if they are out on their bikes anyway? this film is just one person's take on Midnight Ridazz. there's a Midnight Ridazz team on ALC and ALC has a bunch of corporate sponsors. that's basically the same thing.
AIDS Life Cycle = a project to help fund AIDS research produced by non-profit organization San Francisco AIDS Foundation and Gay & Lesbian Center. sponsors include FedEx, Gilead and Shopoff. a team of people (who are avid cyclists) in AIDS Life Cycle decided to name their team after Midnight Ridazz.
Project: Involved = a project to help fund aspiring indepent film makers produced by non-profit organization Film Independent. sponsors include Banana Republic and Vanity Fair. a team of people (who, as stated in the letter RB posted, are "avid cyclists") in Project: Involved decided to make their film an ode to Midnight Ridazz.
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"AIDS Life Cycle = a project to help fund AIDS research produced by non-profit organization San Francisco AIDS Foundation and Gay & Lesbian Center. sponsors include FedEx, Gilead and Shopoff. a team of people (who are avid cyclists) in AIDS Life Cycle decided to name their team after Midnight Ridazz.
Project: Involved = a project to help fund aspiring indepent film makers produced by non-profit organization Film Independent. sponsors include Banana Republic and Vanity Fair. a team of people (who, as stated in the letter RB posted, are "avid cyclists") in Project: Involved decided to make their film an ode to Midnight Ridazz. "
Hahahahaha, nice spin on the second part. Are you a corporate publicist? I find it amusing that you compare AIDS research to sponsoring pretentious young twats who want to make corporate films.
"The cash stipend they provide barely covers hard costs."
Either they're corporate whores and stupid because they didn't get any money out of it. Or they did get get enough cash and they're just lying.
Either way, welcome to your corporate overlords you young naive film maker consumerist sell outs.
toweliesbong
08.17.09 - 2:42 pm
ha ha. yeah, when i was watching the guy talk about how much Banana Republic clothing helped the feel of his movie i was wondering how much of him was dying on the inside at that moment.
Hahahahaha, nice spin on the second part. Are you a corporate publicist? I find it amusing that you compare AIDS research to sponsoring pretentious young twats who want to make corporate films.
toweliesbong
08.17.09 - 2:44 pm
if you don't like it, you're living the wrong city.
This looks like some USC film student bullshit. I feel like I am going to barf. It just made my period cramps WORSE. I can't believe I wasted like, five minutes of my life on this. So trite, so shallow, so lame.
Don't feel bad if you were roped into this. That whole industry is built on deceit.
Although I do kinda like how the chick fixed the flat ; p
It is not an independent film. It's an advertorial. It's a commercial disguised as a short film. Click n the video blog links and listen to the director gushing shamelessly about his sponsors and why the clothes fit his main character cause he is an "outsider"
The fact that the creators didn't get paid much doesn't make it art.
The ONLY reason they made this film was to gain exposure and get more work in TV & internet commercials.
In the process they trampled on the ideas Midnight Ridazz is based on.
It's such a selfish piece of crap.
Boy joins group.
Finds girl.
Gets the hell out of the group.
Which is how the creators are thinking.
"filmmakers" join cool group
exploit cool group for a quickie 3 min advertorial
get the hell out of cool group.
you work in the film industry. you know how it goes.
however just because they have corporate sponsors and/or product placement doesn't make it not art.
i wouldn't say this particular example is good art by any means. but this is the collaborative work of a few mildly creative minds and the product of a few very ambitious hearts. i'm not going to piss on it just because Banana Republic paid the bills. i'm going to piss on it because it sucks.
a team of people (who are avid cyclists) in AIDS Life Cycle decided to name their team after Midnight Ridazz.
I am one of these people. So is Roadblock. I am one of the designers of the team jersey... which before the team was even associated with MR, we had RB's blessing, and permission to use the logo on the jersey. So let's get THAT out of the way...
As for the rest of what your post implies... how dare you compare this shitty advertising competition to AIDS LifeCycle. Seriously. What the hell is wrong with you? Do you have any idea how hard each individual works to not only train and prepare for this public awareness event, but raise $3000 each to help people living with HIV and AIDS??? And your saying, that because a few corporations donate a shit ton of money and free support for the riders in the name of good PR it's the same fucking thing as this abomination of an independent film, which has no ambition other than to squeeze its way onto a resume? How did you manage to get your head that far up your ass anyway?
canadienne responding to a comment by onethirtynine
08.17.09 - 12:26 pm
"i'm not going to piss on it just because Banana Republic paid the bills. i'm going to piss on it because it sucks. "
If BR had paid for it and it was a good film I probably wouldn't have a problem with it. But it's a crappy film.
You can't sue someone or send them a cease and desist letter because their film sucks. You can sue them or send them a cease and desist letter for using your identity, trademark or copyrighted material for commercial purposes without permission.
marino responding to a comment by onethirtynine
08.17.09 - 12:47 pm
this is a contest for young film-makers to show off how well they can create advertisments for The Man. As well-intentioned as the film-maker may have been, this is an advertisment using Midnight Ridazz as a backdrop to sell BR. In effect, they are trying to associate bike culture with some shitty mall clothing store. That is not what Midnight Ridazz is about.
ALC is about raising money for charity--not quite the same thing.
What is Midnight Ridazz about? Happyland talking about her vag! Try marketing that shit!
are "midnight ridazz" and the skull registered trademarks or are you just going by first use? i'm not seeing them in the uspto database.
i'm far from an expert or lawyer, but i did deal with trademark registrations and a couple disputes for the law firm i used to work for. i'd contact melissa and hopefully get her to see your side of things and let her contact them to take it down. failing that, this is probably obvious, but the first step is usually just a cease and desist letter letting them know the use is unauthorized and that you'll take legal action if it's not removed. i'd direct it towards the legal people at whatever corporation is behind the website, along with a cc to the producer, and whatever higher-ups you can track down relating to the movie scheme.
an actual lawsuit would probably end up costing you some money and it's pretty unlikely you'd get anything out of it besides the use of the trademark removed from their website, so hopefully it doesn't come to that.
Just watched it - fuck, depressing & bad! I feel used, which I suppose was inevitable.
The fact of it being a badly written advertorial is almost beside the point here. The real offense to me is that they were asked to adhere to certain conditions in exchange for our cooperation and they did not adhere to those conditions. Essentially, they are fucking opportunistic liars, which comes as no surprise to me - I have been dealing with film students for the last 29 years.
I'll leave it to some of the bright minds here to come up with a suitable form of revenge. I think at the very least we can ask for the term "Midnight Ridazz" and any logos that appear to be removed form the film and the site.
yes i know that you rode ALC and i know that Roadblock was also on the team and gave the blessing to use the logo. i don't mean any offense and i'm not trying to belittle anyone's participation with ALC. i'm merely pointing out that both situations are non-profit organizations backed by coporate sponsors in which participants decided to reflect upon their own personal experiences with Midnight Ridazz. obviously the intentions are way different.
what exactly is your gripe? are you angry at Banana Republic for sponsoring a fellowship program that helps young film makers kickstart their career in the wonderful world of advertising or at the writer/director Kuang Lee for having no other ambition but to polish up his resume? is that different from one of our fine photographers using shots from a ride in his or her portfolio? how about the Bicycle Film Festival featuring independent bicycle-related films ...presented by 42 Below Vodka?
where do you draw the line as far as corporate sponsors or career-minded people go? just because someone doesn't post on this internet forum regularly doesn't mean they that they aren't a rida. there's about 50 people or less who post on Midnight Ridazz but each ride turns out 500 or more. could Kuang Lee be one of them?
like i said above, the Midnight Ridazz name is trademarked and there shouldn't be a problem telling them to remove the name from their film seeing as how Roadblock told the makers not to use it before production even began.
trouble is the stench of marketing is messy, it's sticky and it's everywhere especially here in Los Angeles. remember when RBI and i did the Jonesy's Jukebox thing with Roadblock and Annie? do we support Clear Channel or any of their advertisers? no, but we still came down to the station and helped to create brainless radio fodder for the masses. why? i guess we just thought that it would do more good than harm.
am i being the devil's advocate? yes. am i giving them the benefit of the doubt? yes. i don't know him but i'd like the writer of this film to read this thread and hear what he has to say. srsly.
Sorry for the freak out. I just took offense to the comparison... because when you do ALC, the last thing you're thinking about is FedEx and Powerade, etc... This, on the other hand is clearly an advertising campaign, trying to claim itself as being altruistic because of its support for student films or whatever. Which is kinda bull... since they're probably saving money by having students make these ads for them, (and tapping directly into their target market in doing so), rather than paying a legit advertising agency to make something decent.
But for the record, I wasn't so much turned off by the corporate association of the film... just the fact that it's bloody awful, and a disgrace to the Midnight Ridazz community, image, and philosophy. The fact that it's a Banana Republic ad is just the cherry on top.
canadienne responding to a comment by onethirtynine
08.17.09 - 2:40 pm
Whats the difference between Banana Republic and most of the Bicycle gear we ride? I dont most are affording independent frame companies that buy their steel from organic free-range steel farms. Why pick and choose?
What if it was on the GT website, and what if you ride a GT? I dont think you should be offended outside of MR being used to make such a crappy short...
I like going to a thrift store and finding a nice pair of Banana Republic pants that once cost $90, for $6.99.
I still dont understand a few things, and maybe the film maker can clear them up:
1. The guy breaks down while he is near the end of the pack. But the girl shows up later... was she even further behind (this kind of takes away from the Rosie the riveter angle by changing the tube)?
2. As they """"WALK"""" through China Town (i thought it was about riding bikes), she ditches the boy, after she apparently affirmed her independence. However the film makers thought it good to enforce the notion that if a male is forceful/jealous enough in tone, the girl will listen...(and not say, "who the fuck are you talking to like that?")
3. Is the friend her boyfriend? Maybe just a cock-blocker? Then why is he acting that way for the short? Couldnt the short have been like a car commercial.
"Hey can I ride?"
-"sure"
And then you get a thousand angles of shots of the BR gear they are wearing while riding... and then the boy and girl skip into a motel, because cool clothes get you laid.
Fucking Film students... if only they had a bigger budget, right?
md2 responding to a comment by canadienne
08.17.09 - 4:01 pm
"Hey can I ride?"
-"sure"
And then you get a thousand angles of shots of the BR gear they are wearing while riding... and then the boy and girl skip into a motel, because cool clothes get you laid.
--i guess your right... ridazz should just fuck in public or at home... or where ever... probably in little corners of the Bicycle Kitchen... while ordering ice cream at scoops (that will always get you laid)... or $2 margs at Barragans... see pushing the cool meter!!!
Someone has to chop up the clip where she says "you dont know me". Nice post for every time someone offends another on this site.
4. Did you notice he said the Eliott Smith mural was the FIRST thing he saw when he god to LA (and it was amazing)? How the fuck did he get to Sunset and Fountain without seeing anything else?
5. She claims friends are overrated. That all she needs is Eliot Smith to depress her while she rides... and then her friends show up and she totally goes against what she JUST said.
This video used as many references it could to push the this film maker is "cool" meter its so pathetic... like product placement.
md2 responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.17.09 - 4:22 pm
4. Did you notice he said the Eliott Smith mural was the FIRST thing he saw when he god to LA (and it was amazing)? How the fuck did he get to Sunset and Fountain without seeing anything else?
this is the only part of the film that appears to make any sense... you see, that Elliot Smith Mural is right across the street from Tang's Donut. and dude very likely bolted from the greyhound station straight to Tang's to be at the epicenter of cycling ferociousness in LA and to have a donut and a sandwich.
There hearts were in the right place when they thought about making a short film that included the midnight ridazz, as the community has obviously impacted their lives in one way or another. Blame the poor writing and overall direction of the film. I've seen some of the footage fellow riders capture on their snap and shoot digital cameras and it captures the midnight ridazz essence more accurately so budget has nothing to do with this project being such a failure.
--The actors just werent too cooperative
--they had to direct, write, and take care of craft service, so... if they had less responsibilities they could have got the shots they wanted.
--The script was written on the inside lining of a messenger bag, which they did real quick because they had to borrow camera gear from school... but the script wasnt the driving force, it was the point of exhibiting the connection bettween urban culture and the struggles of social expectations to look and be part of something cool, which they wanted to both edify and demolish. You see, the boy was not cool, he was not in... he only had his Banana Republic gear, an old 10-speed, and potential girl who likes to be alone listening to Eliot Smith (yikes). Banana Republic is saying: dont worry about fitting in, because when you buy Banana Republic, depressed girls who can barely crack a smile will cling to you, esp when they are being talked down to and pushed around by other men.
--oh and they pocketed about half the budget to pay for the wrap party
md2 responding to a comment by GodLovesUgly
08.17.09 - 5:08 pm
i didnt want to mention it, but ive said a lot already.. but did you notice he was using like three tire levers all attached to each other?
She isnt that dope at changing a tire anyhow... I only need one lever, if any... fuck that chick, she aint dope... using CO2 cartridges for a 27" wheel? Thats like a 1/4 of the wheels worth. Im so never ridding with MR again, since they sponsor such non-sense...
Shame on Midnight Rides.
Oh, and just for the record-- why does the black guy have to be the dick? Bullshit...
md2 responding to a comment by la duderina
08.17.09 - 5:45 pm
>>>She isnt that dope at changing a tire anyhow... I only need one lever, if any... fuck that chick, she aint dope... using CO2 cartridges for a 27" wheel? Thats like a 1/4 of the wheels worth. Im so never ridding with MR again, since they sponsor such non-sense... <<<
"all your critique caused me to go back and watch this short again... I hate to think this is typically what "outsiders" think of MR.... "
It has nothing to do with MR.
They just borrowed the oldest storyline in the world.
Outsider comes to a party. Steals girl from the insiders. Conflict follows.
See Iliad, Romeo & Juliet, West side Story etc
This could have been shot in a nightclub.
It has nothing to do with bicycles.
It helps that bicycles are considered cool and that midnight rides provide a range of locations and a large group of young free extras.
The filming that Hartwick organized at 20th century Fox was a billion times better. People got paid for showing up and their contribution to their story line was that their mere appearance (just cruisin down the road) changed the character's worldview.
marino responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.17.09 - 6:58 pm
I know the ALC usage of MR was talked a bit about already but I want to throw my 2 cents into that as one of the folks who that got that ball rolling 2 years ago as Team Midnight Ridazz captain during ALC 7.
First off you said:
"a team of people (who are avid cyclists) in AIDS Life Cycle decided to name their team after Midnight Ridazz. "
Um no, a group of ridazz (who became avid cyclists) decided to try ALC and start their own ALC team, named after Midnight Ridazz, which was how the teammates met and got passionate in bikes in the first place. Of the core group that did the first ALC training ride, Danny was the only one who had done ALC previously, so I would not say this was a group of people in ALC who decided to adopt the MR name as you put it. We were ridazz who wanted to take on the challenge of AIDS LifeCycle and raise money for a worthy cause and that energy came from within MR. We were proud to be part of Midnight Ridazz and wanted to sport the jerseys to show the positivity MR can produce to a larger community of cyclists that either are clueless to what MR is, or had preconceived notions of what Midnight Ridazz was, often negative and based on hear say.
I could go on more about this but I don't have heaps of time right now. But the MR logo as part ALC, though it may be attached to an organization with some corporate sponsors is fundamentally different from this usage. First off we explicitly asked for permission to use the MR logo and name and kept Roadblock in the loop about everything we were up to, realizing the sensitivity and significance of the logo. And of course all the money raised in the name of our team has gone to supporting people living with aids, and funding prevention and research programs. This movie is basically an advertisement for a product in the guise of supporting independent film making when in fact it is really just a cost cutting measure by which a corporation can hire cheap labor in the guise of "supporting" the arts. Not the same thing at all.
GarySe7en responding to a comment by onethirtynine
08.17.09 - 7:06 pm
Hello "TIMESARECHANGING". Excuse my ignorance, but I don't know you. Could you please post a photo of yourself so that we may judge your relative attractiveness?
If you are found wanting we may choose to disregard everything that you say.
Also be aware that you have already drawn the attention of the grammar police for too many commas.
mr rollers responding to a comment by TIMESARECHANGING
08.17.09 - 7:16 pm
Wow, Anton, how did you find this in the first place? I remember when they were filming this. Dude couldn't hold his line. Shouldn't that girl be listening to Good Charlotte anyway?
Alright, I'm done.
It's sad that they felt the need to impose that bogus story arc.
If you show Ridazz for what it is: fun, inclusive, etc. then apparently that's not enough of a good story.
I'm guessing they thought the woman's actions would "balance out" the jerk who said no. The only problem is that this dichotomy doesn't really exist in the first place.
cabhauler responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.17.09 - 7:24 pm
There's a 1,000 story lines that the guy could have picked. I would have just came on the boards and told you guys what I wanted to do. Then ask for a story line. If you guys didn't response, then you wouldn't have had any room to bitch about the story line! But I would bet that there would have been responses and more openness. This would have resulted into possibly making a better product.
User1 responding to a comment by cabhauler
08.17.09 - 7:29 pm
"Four to eight weeks out. I guess I never finished my answer about my writer/producer role. Practically, it was a nightmare for me because, you know, eight weeks out, six weeks out, probably even four weeks out or two weeks out, we were still adjusting the script... writing is a really difficult thing for me and it doesn't come to me naturally. So it was difficult for me to deal with the practical, logistical side of producing while I was still embroiled in trying to finalize the script."
"it's not a piece that's supposed to go into great depth about anything. It's a fun, up-lifting, inspirational piece that I hope is visually striking but also just kind of celebrates Woman, and all the different layers of it... Often times I got pulled by advice to try to add more depth to the characters, more depth to the narrative... But this was never supposed to be that and finally after like three or four rounds of going from great concept, to OK, to really bad, to worse, I basically said, "I can't do any of this. This is not what I set out to do," and Eugene [Yang, director] was 100% on the same page as I. And we just said, "We're going to go back to the first concept and we're going to develop it from there." And that's what we did and it taught me that basically, it's really great getting other feedback but at the end of the day you have to stick to what your original intention was. "
--Melissa Lee (from Vanity Fair site "the interview")
I feel like a psychic considering my previous joke. She was producer and writer and on short notice... best thing to do is exploit someone else's scene/culture, since you dont have time to create something better... "you dont know me"
worst thing is supposedly Godard inspired this short.... thats worse than what she did to MR
because indie103 is now off the air, the podcasts are gone, which is a shame really. however, here is a picture of all of us after the show. i had such a great time during that whole thing.
..... so why does everyone hate commecialism? Eventually MR is going to be something of the past. I mean I love MR and all but slowly commercialism is going to find its way to some riders.
"Our fall campaign was inspired by the mood, freedom and style of the French New Wave. We set out to capture modern city stories that celebrate city living & a life of style. All anchored in our five key essentials for fall: the white shirt, the chino, the trench, the suit and denim."
- Simon Kneen, EVP of Design & Creative Director,
Banana Republic
I'm thinkin' : "Midnight Ridazz: The Epic Chino Ride"
angle responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.17.09 - 7:57 pm
"so why does everyone hate commecialism?"
It's not about hating commercialism. In a capitalist society we all have to sell out to buy food and pay our rent. Commercialism is about exchanging goods and services for a price.
When they use your name, intellectual property without permission and without compensation, it's not an exchange, it's stealing.
Commercialism would have been if they had come to Roadblock and said; "We want to use the Midnight Ridazz name and logo for a bike riding short that will plug banana republic and we'll pay you 5K to use any way you want (fix the website, throw a party, publish a book, midget whores and blow, whatever)"
marino responding to a comment by palucha66
08.17.09 - 8:32 pm
Mind you that this is exactly the type of thing you'll find in the pockets of civilization that exist between Victorville and Vegas.
Towns/Unincorporated areas like Lucerne Valley, Newberry Springs and Daggett come to mind.
Going back to the editing, I'm guessing that generic shots of an actual MR-ride were interloped with whomever all decided to show up and support this piss-poor operation.
Kind of reminds me of those war-movies that use stock footage of hundreds of attack-choppers filling the skies, then in another scene, there only seems to be a fraction of that.
WITH, the exception of big budget movies that could actually cover the fuel and maintenance reimbursements to whichever branch of the armed forces they happen to be getting technical assistance from.
1:30 check your facts before you spout. TMR has NO corporate sponsors... Unless you consider unemployed hipsters who buy our tee shirts and cookies our Corp sponsors.
This is a clear example of trademark infringement done by some people who basically said fuck you to RB. Pursued, I'm sure VF would pull it from their site.
indigis responding to a comment by onethirtynine
08.17.09 - 11:18 pm
Also if rb says hey I'll call our Corp lawyers and see if a cease and desist letter is appropriate here. It's the gall of the producers who in replying to rb's letter completely ignored his request not to use his brands and only talked up their pathetic qualifications.
I also noticed they were quite accurate with that movie in regards to OH-6 "little birds" flying scout for the Hueys.
Not to mention good 'ole, R.Lee as one of the "little-bird" pilots.
Um no, a group of ridazz (who became avid cyclists) decided to try ALC and start their own ALC team,
Gary, i know all about the origins of the ALC team and i'm not trying to compare your contribution to society with Mr. Kuang Lee's little piece of work. i was just comparing the structure of the organizations and the background of the participants.
yes the film sucked. no they should not have mentioned Midnight Ridazz by name especially since Roadblock e-mailed them saying so.
but you guys are here talking like the film-makers are complete outsiders. why? just because they don't post on the forum? in the interview, the director talks about Midnight Ridazz being one of the first things he did after moving to Echo Park. here's a quote from the producer's letter to Roadblock: "Both the director and I were avid cyclists before this opportunity came about and he wanted to do a film based on his own first experience on the ride."
so how many rides do you have to attend before you are considered one of the Midnight Ridazz? how many forum posts do you need?
"They don't fuckin deserve us. That's all."
are you fuckin kidding me? you sound exactly like the d-bag in the video who told the kid to go fuck off.
fuck all you naysayers who think that this little smear of commercialism is bringing on the end of Midnight Ridazz. that's fucking weak. where the fuck is your heart at? i know that Midnight Ridazz will continue to thrive and grow with or without Banana Republic's totally bitchin' threads. don't get your panties all in a bunch and fucking ride.
"This movie is basically an advertisement for a product in the guise of supporting independent film making when in fact it is really just a cost cutting measure by which a corporation can hire cheap labor in the guise of "supporting" the arts."
yes that's true but this isn't a fraction as bad as the exploitation of cheap labor from other countries.
1:30 check your facts before you spout. TMR has NO corporate sponsors... Unless you consider unemployed hipsters who buy our tee shirts and cookies our Corp sponsors.
This is a clear example of trademark infringement done by some people who basically said fuck you to RB. Pursued, I'm sure VF would pull it from their site.
indigis
08.18.09 - 2:18 am
Ingrid, check your facts before you spout. my name is 1:39, not 1:30.
i didn't say TMR has corporate sponsors, i said that ALC has corporate sponsors.
so we should hate on this film for that reason instead of hating on it for leeching off a culture they don't understand or truly appreciate enough to portray in a more honest light?
coldcut responding to a comment by onethirtynine
08.18.09 - 1:23 am
I just wanted to say that while this video is indeed lame (a classic case of poor writing), Project Involve is actually an alright program. Film Independent is making a concerted effort to help get minorities inside the entertainment industry. The mentorship part of the program really kicks ass. It's unfortunate that they have to rely on corporate sponsored contests/challenges to help get their fellows' work "out there", but it is what it is.
While I totally understand people's anger at the filmmakers for connecting this piece to the MR name and its public image, I don't think it should be viewed as a malicious attack upon the group. I actually worked on another one of these videos and the goals of the assignment seemed pretty clear: 1.) Come up with a clever commercial for Banana Republic and 2.) Incorporate themes of diversity or representation of marginalized voices in the community.
After watching the video what stands out most to me is a blatant lack of creativity and laziness. I'm guessing that the director and producer tried to think of some "young and hip" context for their incredibly vague storyline, and then decided that the ‘underground’ cycling scene in Los Angeles sounded like a perfect storm of cool, edgy, and fringe. Do I think they performed a disservice by not trying harder to understand MR and what it’s really all about: YES. Do I think they purposely set out to give MR a bad rep: NO.
As for concerns about monetary reparations, let me assure that the provided budget was indeed a joke. Banana Republic may be loaded but they didn't give these kids much. The money didn't even cover the entire equipment rental for the video I worked on (Production had to cover the difference out of their own pockets). The idea of the filmmakers paying five grand to MR is a little ridiculous. Remember: none of them are gonna get fat paychecks from Banana Republic for these spots. At best, maybe the exposure from this will land one or two of them a paying gig in the future. The real winner here is Banana Republic. GarySe7en is totally correct in pointing out that not only did they get a cheap advertisement; they got it in the guise of supporting the arts.
In the end though, I feel mostly disappointed. If the filmmakers had tried harder they might have come up with something that benefited MR and BR equally--exposing both a community and a product to new people in such a way that *neither* group would be ashamed to be affiliated with the finished piece.
I sent a letter explaining basically the point made above. No one hates then personally. But we were offended at the negative portrayal and that it was the exact opposite. I asked if perhaps they could re-edit the material to show a positive message that we work for (despite what the forums betray)
Well, it does seem to me that the filmmakers have a right to make whatever kind of film they want, even if I (or anyone else) happen to think it's a clichéd hack job, or thinly disguised Banana Republic propaganda, or whatever.
The problem is that they use the Midnight Ridazz name explicitly in the promo copy on the Banana Republic site, which implies that MR in some way endorsed the film, or at least that MR is in some way connected with the production. It should be made more clear that this film is a complete work of fiction created by the filmmakers, not a document of what Midnight Ridazz as an event is about. I think just making a change to the copy, using "a nighttime social bike ride" instead of "the infamous Midnight Ridazz bike ride" (as well as not using the name or MR logo anywhere else on the BR site) would go a long way towards fixing the issue.
Also, there's a big pic of a "Midnight Ridazz" graffiti tag in the production stills section, which, besides using the MR name, also seems like really bad PR for MR. It would be great if that could come down.
angle responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.18.09 - 5:56 am
The problem is that they use the Midnight Ridazz name explicitly in the promo copy on the Banana Republic site, which implies that MR in some way endorsed the film, or at least that MR is in some way connected with the production.
i think this is the real issue. anyone can say that they are Ridazz. As a matter of fact, i feel like a few people even believe they have more "Ridazz Cred" than others. The beautiful thing about Ridazz is that is is about everyone who ever has been, is and will be a part of the scene.
If this movie didn't explicitly mention "Midnight Ridazz" in the synopsis, I would support it. It still wouldnt be very good, but I'd support it.
I think that is over stepping the line... its their movie. I think your creative input would only be valid if they kept the MR logos, name and pics. If they remove it, then they can make whatever stupid bike short they want for whomever they want however they want.
Not to push the issue, but i do think there is a difference between the actual rides and forums. The latter is (at least in my mind) to be taken less seriously (by default?). Whereas the rides themselves display the attitude (in general) that MR promotes. There is a line being drawn here, but its not a crucial one... I just think the forums can be serious, silly, and offensive (to a degree), while not diminishing the MR name. If this were a newsletter, with some of the opinions expressed it would be different. Forum posts dont come with a MR stamp of approval so to speak
md2 responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.18.09 - 10:00 am
Something tells me that we would not have had all this broo hah hah if the short were sponsored by Old Navy.
Dude: " Can I ride with you?"
Cool Dude: "Wearing that bourgeois Banana Republic shit? Hell Naw."
Dude: " But I listen to Elliot Smith..."
Cool Dude: "Lower your thread count and then talk to me. Midnight Ridazz shop at Old Navy son."
* Dude looks directly at camera confused, shrugs shoulders, palms up and sighs*
* Play corny music- wah wah wah wahhhhh.*
* Play Old Navy theme song: OLD NAVY- OLD NAVY!*
Reel2Wheel thanks for taking the time. While I agree with almost everything you write, I'll take exception with the following:
"The idea of the filmmakers paying five grand to MR is a little ridiculous."
I've worked on TV commercials for the past 20 years. Not ridiculous at all. Anywhere between $1,500 and $10,000 would be fair depending on usage (internet only, TV, what markets etc)
The fact that they didn't have the $$$ is not an excuse to use it for free especially when they are told explicitly not to. Would they steal the camera gear if they couldn't afford to rent it? The film could easily be done without any mention of MR.
Let's say "Urban Outfitters" approaches MR tomorrow and offers a truckload of $$$ to license the name and image for their bikes and clothing. If they discover that the name and image has already been used by Banana Republic they would back off and the deal would fall thru.
The fact that this was done by broke aspiring filmmakers is irrelevant. The final placement of their work is within Banana Republic's ad campaign.
marino responding to a comment by Reel2Wheel
08.18.09 - 11:07 am
Thats what happens when people think they "know", pick up a camera and utilize some basic editing skills.
They called it los angeles "underground" (which maybe some of you loved)... it just shows how "outside" they are/were.
The problem is that they didnt understand MR, but the ride bikes a lot, so they figured... hey bikes, i rode with some cool people that night.... now I'll make a movie about everything i didnt experience.
I think MR owes them a big "Thank you". Thank you for not giving a bit of shit at pretending you had a part in the overall MR... Thank you for plastering something all over your entry page, that was not yours, and thus pissing people (rightly) off.
Sorry 139, but its not that anyone thinks their outsiders, but rather their film shows how little they considered MR community, rather than their own ambitions.
Maybe they were showing love, but showing love is respecting something enough not to use it as if its been yours, is yours, or being careless with something that is not yours.
md2 responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
08.18.09 - 11:27 am
I should have clarified a bit more. My comment regarding the filmmakers paying five grand to MR, had to do with *these* particular filmmakers (Project Involve Fellows) and *this* particular project (an outreach showcase).
IF we were talking a *commercial* production or even a little (for-profit) independent film then I would agree with you, that's a totally different story. Hell yes, you should insist that they make it rain hundred dollar bills for you--you'd be a fool not to.
I can certainly see your point regarding the possibility of potential MR sponsors being impacted by this. You're also right that they could have made this video without any mention of MR. I am curious why Melissa has not complied (or at least replied) to RB's request. I've met her before and she seemed like a pretty on-the-ball girl.
If the people in charge of MR wish to pursue legal action against the filmmakers then that is their prerogative. I certainly believe that removing one's name from a product that one does not endorse is a just cause. However, if RB cannot get Melissa to return his calls, then I think it might not be a bad idea to contact Project Involve directly. In fact, I would definitely recommend contacting them before filing any kind of lawsuit as they would probably be able to apply the proper "heat" to the filmmakers' asses.
Heck I would be sending a cease and desist letter out to Project Involve, Banana Republic and the film makers. Let the courts figure out how much each is responsible. That is unless they remove all the references to MR in 24 hours.
Once Bikesnob gets it, it has already gone international. The cat's out of the bag, sorta speak. That's alot of damage.
Once Bikesnob gets it, it has already gone international. The cat's out of the bag, sorta speak. That's alot of damage.
Yeah, but BikeSnob only mentions MR in passing. I think most people will see it as he did, just an example of piss poor writing. I mean the story line is sooo OLD ("boy meets girl story"? come on!). Considering BSNYC's take, I think people will focus more on how bad the video is rather than how rude MR is.
People, this issue is about THEFT. It's not about bad PR or flawed art. Artists can say or do virtually anything under the protection of free speech. This film was produced as a commercial enterprise with funding and distribution from BR and VF for advertising and goodwill purposes. They, without permission, TRADED on the MR brand value without compensation and against the explicit demands made by RB.
Ask yourself how patient BR would be if we used Banana Republic logos on some knocked off shit we sold and profited from. This is the comparison that you need to use to understand trademark infringement. RB knows that the only monetary value of MR is in it's intellectual property. I hope he knows that if he lets go his rights it is the first step to MR fully entering into the public domain.
Just be glad that people are inspired enough by MR to actually think of doing such a project... as shitty as the writing and acting was.
Lord knows I've had some ideas of my own that include the MR community (but never demeaning it or lowering it to these standards) and it's all because of everyone here.
Everyone can ride on, while laughing, and while suggesting RB take action, and, well, you can do a lot while you ride on.
If I (like Roadblock) had years invested in MR to the degree he has, I would take it more serious than...egh, ride on... i have other things to do...
Of course its nothing overall... of course its amusing for a number of reasons... of course it will not hinder the MR "cause"... of course it will bring some attention to MR that isnt correct... everyone knows its not a big deal (in caparison to things that are big deals--whatever that means). I think the posts on this thread are good, especially if the filmakers read them... so that they'll think twice before doing something similar again... and it will give other pause, esp if action is taken... if not, Im bootlegging MR Evolution t-shirts... $12 if you buy from me/ $10 pre order
But Roadblock should take it serious... that was not cool... people get beat downs for that kind of stuff... (as noted)
md2 responding to a comment by onethirtynine
08.18.09 - 2:45 pm
totally. i agree with most of the points on this entire blown-out-of-proportion thread. but calling it the end of Midnight Ridazz is just a little bit dramatic... even for the internet.
note in my first post that i said they are in the wrong for using the name given Roadblock's prior stipulations.
I know ( so don't bother telling me) I should shut up about this subject already but I want to point out one more thing to consider... No advertising is bad advertising. The more heat this infantile film generates the more the filmmakers and sponsors benefit. If I were them (and I have been many times) I'd not only sit back and watch the issue blow up, I'd be spreading and flaming the fire. If you hadn't noticed that film is involved in a competition.
I know you were kidding, but I just want to clarify that the shirts for burning man ridazz camping trip have been cleared with Roadblock. Also, they will be benefiting the needs of 50 plus ridazz (hopefully more) to be able to make it a great experience and represent Midnight Ridazz to a larger like-minded community.
come on... you're smart enough to know its a joke... no one believes that... Its exaggerated for a reason...
The fuss about being on BSNYC gives more weight to BSNYC than MR.
Like I said, Its really just funny... but should be taken serious in regard to the misuse of the MR stuff... everything else is just a joke (as far as ive seen)...unless you really want someones ass kicked
md2 responding to a comment by onethirtynine
08.18.09 - 3:00 pm
I don't really think this is blown out of proportion... this is kinda serious.
Bitch lied, and then attached the MR name to piece of garbage that's getting national attention.
If someone stole a logo I designed and attached it to something when I specifically instructed them not to, I would flip.
It's not a matter of speculating how little damage was done... because you don't know.
Yeah, gross....and regardless of cinematic worth, the use of MR intellectual property is troubling. My photos are about as public as you can get but having them collected on that site, apparently without RBs express permission, connected to that drivel - MR logo removed - makes me wanna go take a shower. Ugh! Our shots are mixed in with pseudo-cameos of the pricks!
+1:
"if i saw a group of assholes and i asked to ride with them and they denied me, i'd be like, no fucker, FUCK YOU!"
supersano responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.18.09 - 3:24 pm
As I said before, if RB wants to sue that is his right to exercise.
However, those folks in the forums who are trying to push this into the courts in the hopes of MR collecting a fat paycheck from Banana Republic are sadly mistaken.
1.) Lawyers aren't cheap, even drafting a cease and desist is gonna cost money. And while you could draw one up yourself (with some help from the internet), it won't carry the same 'bang' if it's not printed on a law firm's letterhead. This is why I advocate contacting Project Involve directly, they will probably be able to solve the problem, and they can do it for free.
2.) All these corporate-sponsored contests have contracts with tons of fine print that directors and producers must sign in order to enter. I have no doubt that the writing in these documents completely shields both Banana Republic and Vanity Fair from any wrongdoing on the Fellows' part. These are big companies and it seems fair to assume that they know how to cover their ass. If push comes to shove, you can be certain that BR and VF will gladly let the filmmakers take the fall, alone.
Did they use your photos on their site without your consent?
Legally speaking, they can NOT do that, and they would have to give you a photo credit even if you granted your permission. I did not see any photo credits in the "production stills" section - I assumed the filmmakers took them.
The last job I had was in the art department at a weekly newspaper, and we spent a great deal of time procuring photo rights to all the pictures we used so that we didn't get sued - it's a very, very big deal.
At the very least they need to give you a photo credit; and if you want, they will have to take your photos down if you ask them to.
angle responding to a comment by supersano
08.18.09 - 3:53 pm
and no, I reckon gave up some, if not all rights away when they went up on MR and were branded as such. i just hope they don't help sell a single shirt, speshully fugly blue stripey ones.
It's funny because they could not emulate their visual reference doc to film. This was so lame, I would go into hiding if I directed this piece of crap.
Foldie responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
08.18.09 - 4:07 pm
And yes it's typical for commercial directors to rip off a bunch of pictures off the internet to create a visual reference of what their proposed "treatment" is going to look like. These treatments are distributed internally from the director to the adverting agency, they are not meant for public consumption.
What we have here is that they put all our shit on a public website associated with Banana Republic with whom we have no desire to be associated with.
I just emailed a photographer friend of mine for the contact info of a copyright infringement lawyer.
marino responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
08.18.09 - 4:29 pm
this is getting ridiculous. how long does it take to get that shit off the net. hahaha at least the Bike Snob didnt roast on Midnight Ridazz personally hahah oh man. this banana republic shit is DEFAMATION!
send a certified letter giving them final notice to remove all MR content. tell them they have 24 hours from receipt before you take legal action. they'll take it down quick.
Pitching a new reality program to FOX tomorrow called Midnight Rydazz. Shouldn't be much infringement there.
it will be about a gang of outlaw teenagers with brakeless fixies who when they're not hanging out at banana republic, they go to CRANK MOB to smoke meth, drink, steal and shoot cops--then return to their middle class suburban lives and drink starbucks.
I googled BRs in LA, and there are a ton of locations... but I saw an interesting similarity between the locations and Roadblocks ride today (as mentioned in the There is only ONE!!!) thread.
see below
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3109362
Hmmmmm.... maybe Roadblock is getting a kick back of some sort...
this is getting really interesting... no wonder the site is still up...
md2 responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
08.18.09 - 5:02 pm
Can we make the remake where he decides to go on a Wolfpack ride the following Monday and everyone thinks his BR clothes are going to get all sweaty and tattered but he turns out to me faster than Rich or any one else. That would be funny.
He is the only person who contacted the film crew
He is credited on the short
He supposedly told them to take the MR references off, but hasnt happened.
BSNYC gets an email of the link (more promotion)
Still the video is up (waiting for more views/hits?? huh??)
Roadblock makes a secret run around L.A. (since things are heating up fast).
Kuang Lee is coincidentally traveling the globe--see twitter (no money, huh? Yeah right!)
Melissa Lee is no where to be found
The main actress just developed a spontaneous heroine addiction (forgot everything)
And the boy star was found dead in the Orange 20 dumpster.
I dont like where this is going
md2 responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
08.18.09 - 5:18 pm
Looks like he is pulling a tube at 2:36. I think someone should do the mystery science theatre voice over to make this thing right. add bong gurgling at 2:36 for sure though.
it will be about a gang of outlaw teenagers with brakeless fixies who when they're not hanging out at banana republic, they go to CRANK MOB to smoke meth, drink, steal and shoot cops--then return to their middle class suburban lives and drink starbucks.
Which will also spurn the series, "Cookin' with the 'Strider".
It will cover the day-to-day escapades of an extremely hungry dude and his quest for the perfect burger.
It will also cover butchering techniques, marination styles, and serving suggestions for once you've processed the raw product straight from its denim packaging.
bentstrider responding to a comment by tortuga_veloce
08.18.09 - 5:45 pm
Marino, I've already offered our corporate IP attorney to draft a Cease and Desist letter. This is RB's call or that of the particular photog. I know I recognize a very important image from Gary from TMR and he's no slouch about giving up his rights.
indigis responding to a comment by marino
08.18.09 - 5:52 pm
You did not give up the copyrights to your photos when you uploaded them to this site. Just because you voluntarily post your photos for viewing here does not mean that Banana Republic or any other entity can take them and use them for commercial or public purposes. At the very least, they must contact you to ask your permission FOR EVERY SINGLE, SEPARATE USAGE of your photo, AND your photo credit must accompany your pictures.
Honestly, this is a pretty heinous violation of copyright.
Unfortunately, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't help you with a course of action - although I think you should at least send a personal note, and ask that you get a photo credit or possibly a small fee for your work.
angle responding to a comment by supersano
08.18.09 - 5:56 pm
i'd cry louder if a) i wanted my name anywhere near this or b) there were any money or clothes to be had without a prolonged court battle.
we do inspiration boards in my business all the time, using all kinds of pilfered images from everywhere. but those are for internal meetings and rarely published.
No, I understand that you, personally, may not want to bother with pursuing this stuff on principle if you're not a professional photographer. I just wanted to point out that you do have rights to your work, and what BR or these filmmakers did blatantly violated them.
Still, you might want to send a congenial note asking for a photo credit on your pics, only because you never know who might see them and want to hire you to document a film shoot sometime in the future. With employment as it is, it can't hurt to get your name out there. Again, they violated your copyright, didn't ask for your permission to use your photo... I would be very surprised if they didn't bend over backwards to accommodate you.
The inspiration board is fine - the problem is it was released publicly and connected with the promotion of the film. Looks to me that there's a few professional photos in there, and I imagine one of those photographers would take some legal action if they find out their work was used, perhaps without their permission.
angle responding to a comment by supersano
08.18.09 - 7:46 pm
So we're all worked up and all, but just remember: The public image of cyclists is smug, pampered little bitches who can't take a joke. Another lawsuit isn't going to help things.
The filmmakers didn't kill any babies and it's my belief that they had good intentions. We are not curing cancer here. The core message here is that riding bikes is fun and that everyone is welcome. Don't forget that.
And while I'm here, and I mean not to harp on how bad this film is, but have you ever seen anyone riding around with headphones like that? It was almost the end of the film before I realized she wasn't the sound person . . .
I didn't read every post. I would be really surprised if copyright laws (and ethics) are not taught/mentioned at USC film school. Also, they should get their $$$$$$$$$ back from USC.
Don, here is everything you need to get this shit pulled immediately. Essentially, don't worry about the "film makers", it is Vanity Fair in the guise of vf@genda.com that is fully liable for the trademark infringement (DMCA) if they ignore your demand to "Take Down" your Trademarks, etc. This they take VERY seriously. Our General Counsel found this on their site:
A. Service Provider respects the intellectual property of others, and we ask our users to do the same. Service Provider may, in appropriate circumstances and at its discretion, suspend or terminate the access of and take other action against users, subscribers, registrants and account holders who infringe the copyright rights of others.
B. If you believe that your work has been copied and is accessible on the Website in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, or that the Website contains links or other references to another online location that contains material or activity that infringes your copyright rights, you may notify Service Provider by providing the following information (as required by the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. sec. 512) to our copyright agent set forth below:
(i) A physical or electronic signature of person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed;
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Here are the urls of the offending Copyright and Trademark abuses:
The actual content of the film doesn't look like any infringement occurred... only that to our sense of dignity. If anyone can recognize their face in the film and did not sign a release, they can follow up with their own complaints.
Hope this helps.
indigis responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.19.09 - 11:11 am
does Roadblock need to end the complaint? couldnt anyone simply "notify" about the issue being raised? BR will react based on that alone (the potential for things getting worse).
md2 responding to a comment by indigis
08.19.09 - 11:21 am
RB would be the proper one to send it. It's an easy enough process. I can have our law firm do it on their letterhead but that is going to cost $$$. I'm more than happy to offer that but I think a straight letter, followed up by a phone call, will achieve the right effect. If it doesn't (I'd be amazed) then definitely a C&D letter needs to be drafted and sent certified letter.
RB, if you don't get satisfaction following their suggested guidelines, let me know and we'll sick the dogs on em.
indigis responding to a comment by md2
08.19.09 - 11:37 am
i understand that... i guess i meant in general... when something like this occurs, does it matter who notifies? I was more or less thinking, if I got the heads up that my company is doing something illegal (unknowingly) then that would be enough.
I wasnt suggesting some 16yr old rider send an email, with bears fucking as an attachment.
md2 responding to a comment by indigis
08.19.09 - 11:43 am
Yeah, I could see how Ollie's character's dialouge could be seen as being abrasive in that scene. I can see how it could be construed as cliquish and not welcoming. However, in my own numerous times doing the Ride, I've always encountered nothing but positive vibes and total tolerance, just like you were saying.
I think the main thing here is that the film is a relationship story set in the Ride environment. Ollie is a single character in the love-triangle story, and NOT a representation of Midnight Ridazz as a whole. I would hate to think that the film gives this impression. Maybe if your'e comfortable with it, we could meet face to face and talk throught this -- have an Obama beer summit or something.
best,
kuang
PS: Also, it was my OG buddies Seth Ecklund and Andrew Middleton who set up the French Directors' ride a few years back who encouraged me to do the film. They actually like the movie a lot."
"Dear roadblock,
Please tell me specifically which images on the V!@#$?enda site
are taken from the Midnight Ridazz site, please provide links to those
photos on the Midnight Ridazz site, and please confirm that you are the
copyright owner of the photos.
Jerry"
I agree with everything you said. and Banana Republic won. Now we have all this discussion, video viewing and keyword/linking to their site. They got what they wanted... there is no such thing as bad publicity right?
Roadblock responding to a comment by onethirtynine
08.19.09 - 12:19 pm
hey all, I need to locate the photos on the site and who took them to send to this lawyer. help me out. I recognize Mr. ijunes face but where is that photo?
Sounds to me like they still just don't "get it", which isn't surprising based on how lame the film is. And when I say it's bad, I'm primarily talking about the writing and directing. It's not a bad looking film - the cinematographer has some obvious ability.
The sad truth is that there are thousands of aspiring film makers out there, but very few of them have anything close to what it takes to really make it.
I think our outrage is fully justified based on the copy-write infringement issues and blatant misunderstanding of what our rides are about, but realistically this thing will probably sink like the lead dirigible that it is.
Now we have all this discussion, video viewing and keyword/linking to their site. They got what they wanted... there is no such thing as bad publicity right?
I don't agree with that. One reason that big companies like GAP (parent of Banana Republic) fund these little pseudoindependent advertorials by young filmmakers is to get street cred and influence young people. It's not just about saving money. They fear that the 40-50-60 year old established commercial directors may not be as much in touch with "youth culture". They put these film contests to recruit fresh young talent. Also young people are more likely to watch a video on a website than on TV.
What we have accomplished on this and other blogs and forums is to associate this film and Banana Republic with extreme lameness. All the links pointing to it are accompanied with Banana Republic blabla phony blabla lame, Banana Republic gayest video ever etc.
NOBODY is going to watch this video except people associated / enamored / attracted to the bike community and the bike community has associated this film with turds. How's looking at Banana Republic turds going to make you buy Banana Republic clothes?????
Hmmm???
Well.... It could be ironic... See???
Hipsters will start buying Banana Republic clothes cause they are such a lame company so it's funny.... Get it?
Aw God ! We are doomed!
I didn't realize their evil plans until I wrote "Hmmm???" above.
What was I saying?
marino responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.19.09 - 1:06 pm
I'm curious, if the film didn't have a "thanks" message in it would people be complaining that nobody gave Midnight Ridazz thanks?
I'm on record as not liking the results, but I really do think the filmmakers had good intentions. Perhaps they don't understand the marketing machine and the intentions of their sponsors the same way some of you do, but I do believe they set out to portray Midnight Ridazz in a positive light.
Where they do fail is that they didn't consider that a ride and community whose ethos are grounded in anarchism and anticonsumerism may not be into being portrayed in a film that's part of a marketing campaign.
As far as the production stills materials, I do think making those "inspiration" photos public was not a good move. They should have at least cleared that Roadblock explicitly and even better asked for permission for each photo. Even if it wasn't legally required it would have been the right thing to do.
Anyway, there's many other films and stories about MR, this isn't the only one. The one I like best for info is the Web-only stuff on the KCET site. The various films by Studiodrome and Wise capture the fun of riding really well too. The danger with making more noise is that this film and the ire it provokes drowns out all the others.
I personally like the way BikeSnobNYC and Trackosaurus handled this: check this out, make up your own mind.
Even if it wasn't legally required it would have been the right thing to do.
But they are legally responsible for getting the OK to use someone's likeness, and any of their photos or other intellectual property. That's what this thread is addressing.
Welcome to the thread.
User1 responding to a comment by cabhauler
08.19.09 - 4:35 pm
But if and when the MR references are removed... there wont be much to worry about... people can watch his vid and wonder what all the fuss is about (i.e. i thought there was a bunch of MR shit on here?)...
No one really said they had bad intentions, but just because you have good intentions, lets say to start promoting a group's healthcare plan, and you not only misrepresent the plan, but take their designs, images, name and plaster it on your promotional tool (in this case it wasnt really to push the MR name, but to win a contest), then I think you have to take a step back and say, "good intentions are not enough".
Its strange, but understandable (to an extent), that people think good intentions validate or nullify wrong-doing (or mistakes or whatever you want to call it).
Think about this:
The email RB recently posted, the director seemed more interested in defending the piece, rather than admitting he was in error. "Lets talk about it", well what is there to talk about? He even mentioned the vid wasnt anything like the rides he went on... then why portray it as such?
This is a classic case of jacking, stealing, robbing... the director obviously wants to validate his "cool" via eliot smith, los angeles, MR... trying to represent what he thinks is an "underground" scene.
Good intentions?
Id put money on that this was more ego driven than anything...
Not into psychology, but I doubt his mind set was about what he could do for MR, than for himself---
and look at the result(s).
I honestly dont buy the good intentions theory... Hollywood films and good intentions dont mix. Plus fuck USC.
md2 responding to a comment by cabhauler
08.19.09 - 4:50 pm
Hey RB, seems as though my two photos were taken from Flickr. I never did post those particular ones up on the MR site. Both are from the Toy Ride this past December...links are here:
'I honestly dont buy the good intentions theory... Hollywood films and good intentions dont mix. Plus fuck USC.'
'This is a classic case of jacking, stealing, robbing... the director obviously wants to validate his "cool" via eliot smith, los angeles, MR... trying to represent what he thinks is an "underground" scene.'
I'm not saying Kumbaya and good intentions are everything. Good intentions don't guarantee good art. But the fact that someone thought the rides would make for a good material on screen and wanting to portray them in a positive manner counts for something in my opinion.
As far as "Jacking, stealing ..." I don't know. Are we so weak that a three-minute film has "stolen" something from us? Nobody owns MR. You and I define it. How can you steal something that belongs to all of us? It's not a commodity that someone can be deprived of.
"How can you steal something that belongs to all of us?"
If i steal it, then dont I steal from everyone?
Oh it belongs to me too? Then I dont need anyones permission, right?
"Are we so weak that a three-minute film has "stolen" something from us?"
No, you're right, in fact they have given us so much more... my script for the parody has got me through the day so far... amongst yelling at co-workers for not making me coffee
md2 responding to a comment by cabhauler
08.20.09 - 4:00 pm
"Are we so weak that a three-minute film has "stolen" something from us? Nobody owns MR. You and I define it."
Yes you and I and everybody here define it,
But Roadblock owns the name and this website. And he has sacrificed his career and relationships standing behind it 24/7 for no personal gain.
If one day he gets sick of it and decides to cash in the name, I'll say "more power to you".
When Mr Kwang Lee puts his crappy film within a commercial context without permission he is diminishing the value of the Midnight Ridazz name thus stealing from Roadblock future gains.
I'd rather stand behind Roadblock whom I've known and respected for the past three years than Mr Kwang Lee who reminds me of every opportunistic fillmaker I've met in Hollywood for the past 20 years.
marino responding to a comment by cabhauler
08.20.09 - 4:12 pm
I don't think it's a matter of choosing sides. I'm just trying to put the whole thing in perspective and playing some devil's advocate. I'm not sure about who owns what, but there's more to "owning" something than what a court or the cops or corporate thugs try to define for us.
The notion of Roadblock selling out is funny, someone should make a film about that!
This movie brings back painful memories. Of watching it the first time.
I did however, notice one new detail. The dude who gets a flat is GUILTY of having a kickstand!!! Could be easy to miss, but he clearly look down and his body language gives away to kicking the kickstand gesture. Utterly disgusted.
-->
Ridazz Roulette!
its dead because its blatant commercialization of an anti-commercial subculture. the nike ride was different. yes, it was posted on the site, but it wasnt a "midnight ridazz" ride like the one in the above video was.
Roadblock you are rich!
this is a contest for young film-makers to show off how well they can create advertisments for The Man. As well-intentioned as the film-maker may have been, this is an advertisment using Midnight Ridazz as a backdrop to sell BR. In effect, they are trying to associate bike culture with some shitty mall clothing store. That is not what Midnight Ridazz is about.
Pictures or it ant true.
because indie103 is now off the air, the podcasts are gone, which is a shame really. however, here is a picture of all of us after the show. i had such a great time during that whole thing.
I thought it was fucking hilarious when the dude told that guy he could not ride with them. HAHAHAHA!!!
It's all over the fucking place. My friend in Toronto just emailed me the link and WTF??!!!
"midnight ridazz is officially dead." -ruinedbyidiots
I know you were kidding, but I just want to clarify that the shirts for burning man ridazz camping trip have been cleared with Roadblock. Also, they will be benefiting the needs of 50 plus ridazz (hopefully more) to be able to make it a great experience and represent Midnight Ridazz to a larger like-minded community.
"I suggest a Banana Republic ride... lets all meet at one store, try on a bunch of clothes, unfold the merchandise, and not buy anything..."
HAHA! Coincidence? I think not!
I going to fucking call up Chuck.
Sho Nuff!
RIP thread...
Bring it on, Essay.
so.... should i count out the new Ridazz Yacht???