gasoline powered generator, ay?
don't let paul see it, he might cut your cables.
jonnyboy09.27.11 - 2:13 am
reply
In response to "why are you using a generator?"
I wrote a lot of detail about the reasoning for the trailer at the bottom but I'll share it again...
I wanted the lower frequencies of music (read: bass) to be reproduced so that I could supply a FULL RANGE of sound. What's the point of playing
sexy DEEP house music if you can't hear the DEEP bass line?
I love certain genres of EDM and I am way too elitist of a techno head after going to warehouse parties for years with Turbosound or Funktion-1 sound systems to just have a rig that can only have mid to high range sounds.
Anyway, a subwoofer generates the bass by moving a lot of movement of air and that requires a lot more power than any of the other frequencies. Powering it by a car battery would barely get an hour of playtime before it's drained with this kind of setup (trust me I did the math, researching multiple battery sizes/amp-hours as well). I wanted it to not only have great sound but be able to go loud as well so that's why the generator was there. And I could blast this shit all night long.
As far as "Paul" cutting my cables upon seeing a generator... The generator is a Honda EU1000i, the smallest, quietest, you could buy and it is very efficient.
Recharging a lead acid car battery requires energy as well. Just because you're disconnected from the process of the energy being delivered to your house doesn't mean it's clean either. About 45% of the power comes from COAL, 20% from natural gas, 20% from nuclear and the rest from renewable sources. Eventually after a few hundred discharge/charge cycles the toxic battery will have to be thrown away.
So anyway, fuck yea it bumps.
Antranik responding to a
comment by jonnyboy
09.27.11 - 6:32 pm
reply
Batteries are easily capable of powering your/any sub, are you using car/home audio amps? My guess is it's probably a class AB amp... loss of 30-40% of power to heat! Very inefficient (60-70% eff).
Check out a Class D amplifier (anywhere up to 95% eff) and you can run that sub all night on a battery that is smaller than your generator.
The best amp of all is the tripath amp (search for ta2020 and ta3020). It's based off of class D but improved slightly and audiophile quality. A little harder to manage though.
Dunno where you are located in the city but this friday I'm doing a soundbike ride ->>>
Would love it if you brought your setup on the ride! We hook all of our soundbikes up together at the stops to DJ, and I have no doubt yours would be a huge addition to the low frequencies!
The trailer looks great and I am stoked to hear the sub in person, just get rid of that gasoline! You SO don't need it!
jonnyboy09.28.11 - 3:12 pm
reply
I bet you paul doesn't mind driving his ass around town though, does he? Seems a bit of a hypocrite if you ask me. And the idea of using a generator to power the sub is good idea. He isn't loading himself up with batteries. He probably uses one as a "capacitor". And that battery is good all night.
I like that generator too. It burns clean, quite, and efficient.
DArK ENERgY responding to a
comment by jonnyboy
09.28.11 - 3:27 pm
reply
I was a big contributor to the growing bike scene when I was w/o job from 2007 to 2010!
Creative Thing09.28.11 - 8:02 pm
reply
DArK ENERgy says:
"I like that generator too. It burns clean, quite, and efficient. "
There is no such thing as clean burning, unless it's veggie oil powered. And good luck finding a quiet diesel generator that has the same footprint. It doesn't exist
@static age
I either use two 20Ah 12v SLA's for the mundo (40Ah, 28lbs of battery, 10+ hrs runtime). For the bigger soundbikes that have the 1000W 18" sub on it I use two 35Ah 12v SLA's (70Ah, 50lbs battery, 12 hrs runtime)
I could still use only one battery and have enough juice for at least 5 hours at optimal speaker volume. I always choose to bring more juice than I need, because I always end up needing it.
Another huge advantage to batteries is it's 12V! you can run el wire, headlights, taillights, ipod car chargers, laptop car chargers, a whole shitload of stuff with no loss of efficiency from AC.
FUCK AC!!!
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by DArK ENERgY
09.28.11 - 8:14 pm
reply
jonnyboy, I love your rig!
Especially when you park and hook up the sub.
I have to say I was pretty blow away at the toy ride to see you rocking so long and so loud on bike-able battery power.
On the other hand the ++ sounds great too.
I think its silly for people to poo poo the gas thing.
It burns like a gallon every 3 hours.
lots of people use more than that to get to a ride.
(or power their home appliances).
Hopefully, some day we can get a splitter cable and have both soundsystems rocking!
All City Toy Ride is right around the corner!
Ride on!
trickmilla responding to a
comment by jonnyboy
09.28.11 - 9:07 pm
reply
If it's 1gal per 3 hrs for ++, I would spend $40 in one night on GAS
-$$$$$$$ + poop in the air = not gonna do it
When you use batteries, you can charge them a number of green ways: cycle, solar, wind, water, heart, captain planet.... you get the picture.
Where the fuck is ravedad? He's the true mobile audio aficionado / lesson giver. I am merely his apprentice.
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by trickmilla
09.29.11 - 8:02 am
reply
When I said $40 I meant $20, carry on. My point still stands.
jonnyboy09.29.11 - 8:04 am
reply
"There is no such thing as clean burning, unless it's veggie oil powered"
Oh yes there is such a thing as clean burning gas power. There are cars that filter the intake air and the exhaust air is cleaner than the intake air. Making it cleaner than the intake air. Doesn't mean everyone should be a lazy ass and drive themselves around town, Paul, but doesn't disqualify the facts. And yes this generator is clean quite and efficient. The EUs are clean, it's a Honda! These things were running next to us at festivals and we never smelled them. And yes quite, "Honda's EU Series generators operate at 49 to 59 dBA." 50 dBA is a private office, 60 dBA is a normal conversation. And yes efficient, we've run one for over 8 hours and it burned a little more than a 1/2 a gallon!
The generator system is much better system. It's lighter, and has more power. You're not dragging dead batteries around at the end of the night and the system is about half as heavy!
╭∩╮（︶︿︶）╭∩╮
FUCK dc power!
Go against this system you'll get smoked!!!
DArK ENERgY responding to a
comment by jonnyboy
09.29.11 - 3:26 pm
reply
╭∩╮（︶︿︶）╭∩╮
FUCK AC/DC
If you are not running it off of pedal power you're doing it wrong!
Lazy hipsters
sack or crack you choose responding to a
comment by DArK ENERgY
09.29.11 - 4:20 pm
reply
You'll never convince me that a gasoline generator is a better power source for a bicycle audio system than batteries.
Since you are talking shit on Paul and you have no idea who you are talking about, I'm going to break this down for you.
Here are reasons why that generator is not the best solution (not that it's BAD though)
• it's 30+lbs filled- that's the same as my usual battery rig
• it costs 4X as much
• emissions (can't use it inside!) <– ouch
• maintenance
• dependency on oil
Here are the reasons why batteries are best
• electrical efficiency at any load
• several battery technologies to choose from
• stores energy from any source including bicycle generators (which we use)
• vastly cheaper to acquire and reuse
• no maintenance
• no moving parts
• did I mention they work indoors?
And if you are so worried about weight, they have a battery for that: lithium phosphate! Half the weight of sealed lead acid. Best technology out there and it's still less expensive than that generator.
DArK ENERgY says:
"FUCK dc power! "
Audio equipment runs on DC power so you're shooting yourself in the foot saying "FUCK dc power". Wonderfully done!
"Go against this system you'll get smoked!!!"
Well luckily louisave is holding a sound bike competition very soon, I guess you'll have to enter it in the comp! :) Also I can say now the only thing smoking is going to be your lungs from all that carbon monoxide. Have fun with that.
When you compare battery to gasoline power, electricity wins hands down.
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by DArK ENERgY
09.29.11 - 10:16 pm
reply
Jonnyboy, I understand you love batteries, because that's the setup you have chosen, but you're being a little extreme with the battery-fanaticism and I want to reply to some of your points.
"Batteries are easily capable of powering your/any sub, are you using car/home audio amps? My guess is it's probably a class AB amp... loss of 30-40% of power to heat! Very inefficient (60-70% eff). Check out a Class D amplifier (anywhere up to 95% eff) and you can run that sub all night on a battery that is smaller than your generator. "
---Sorry, your guess is wrong. If you read the details in my original link about the trailer at the top of this thread, you'll see it's a QSX PLX 3102, a $1,200 amp, and that's not a Class AB or a class D but even better efficiency with Class H circuity. It can produce up to 3,100watts @ 4ohms and it weighs 21 pounds.
"You'll never convince me that a gasoline generator is a better power source for a bicycle audio system than batteries. "
---Your statement reminds me of a quote:
'It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.'
---I might not convince you of anything, but I'll continue with my clarifications.
"Another huge advantage to batteries is it's 12V! you can run el wire, headlights, taillights, ipod car chargers, laptop car chargers, a whole shitload of stuff with no loss of efficiency from AC."
---Right, except you're wrong and I can and do have both a 12v DC output and a 120v AC output on the generator.
---The generator isn't producing DC power to convert to AC if that's what you mean by "no loss off efficiency from ac." The inverter onboard the generator is radically different (and SUPER efficient) and incomparable to the modified-sine-wave-inverters you plugin to your cigarette socket that converts DC to AC (20% efficiency).
"Here are reasons why that generator is not the best solution (not that it's BAD though)
• it's 30+lbs filled- that's the same as my usual battery rig
• it costs 4X as much
• emissions (can't use it inside!) <– ouch
• maintenance
• dependency on oil "
--- I don't care about any of those above points because
a) At 30lbs, it's still more powerful than a car battery of that weight and provides consistent power of 900watts for as long as i have gas.
b) i don't care it costs more because it's actually been SO useful for tons of other applications, like when I go camping, which I do very often and could have clean power.
c) Yes I can't use a generator inside, but why would I give a fuck to run a generator indoors? I could just plug my power plug straight into the wall if I wanted it to work indoors, lols
d) maintenance & dependency on oil? maintenance is nil and dependency on oil doesn't bother me cause i drive something called a CAR that requires way more maintenance and fuel ALL DAY.
"Here are the reasons why batteries are best
• electrical efficiency at any load
• several battery technologies to choose from
• stores energy from any source including bicycle generators (which we use)
• vastly cheaper to acquire and reuse
• no maintenance
• no moving parts
• did I mention they work indoors? "
---Electrical efficiency at any load? I'm not really sure what that means, but I know SLA batteries well and they drop their voltage linearly. At 50% discharge, you'd have 50% of the power while my generator can generate 100% of its power consistently until it runs out of fuel.
---Yes I could choose several battery technologies... but let's get real, there's only SLA (cheap and super heavy) and Lithium-variants (lighter but very expensive). I have used several LiFePO4 batteries retrofitted to electric-bicycles so I know how expensive they are.
---No maintenance or moving parts... means nothing to me.
---"did I mention they work indoors?" Did I mention I could plug the amps power plug into a wall socket if I wanted it to work indoors? Yeah.
"Audio equipment runs on DC power so you're shooting yourself in the foot saying 'FUCK dc power'. Wonderfully done!"
---Yes, wonderfully done, except my amp isn't a 12v DC amplifier, it runs off AC power.
---Let's just break it down to the math if you want to actually understand how radically different our systems are:
"For the bigger soundbikes that have the 1000W 18" sub on it I use two 35Ah 12v SLA's (70Ah, 50lbs battery, 12 hrs runtime)"
---I highly doubt your 18" sub is *actually receiving* anything remotely close to 1000 watts of power from your setup AND running at 12 hours of run time.
---Let's do the math, shall we? When I'm running my generator, I have about 900watts of continuous power at my disposable for the sound system.
---For YOUR SYSTEM to generate 900 watts of power, at 12v, would require about 75 amps of power (calc: 900w/12v=amps). Your two-SLA batteries that total to 70amp-hours of power, would be completely drained to zero by the end of the first hour if you had an amp generating and demanding 900 watts of power to the speakers like mine is doing. Does this help you understand a little bit more about how different our setups are?
"When you compare battery to gasoline power, electricity wins hands down."
---This statement makes me *wish* you're trolling but I have a feeling you're not. Please, review what I said in this message and refrain from using absolutist statements that just make an ass out of yourself. They are both making electricity in different ways, so get your head out of your ass about how the battery-power MUST be the best option and open your mind up a little.
If it's the environment you are SO worried about, batteries don't last forever either and are very toxic (especially the lithium batteries). Lead acid batteries are completely DONE for and cannot hold a proper charge after 200-300 cycles and the battery needs to be disposed of and you have to buy another battery. Everything is a compromise in this world.
Also, to clarify on the generators efficiency, the generator has a 1/2 gallon tank that lasts about 6 hours with the music cranked up.
I've burned more gas in a week using my car than I'll burn through this generator for the next several years.
Antranik
Antranik responding to a
comment by jonnyboy
09.30.11 - 1:26 am
reply
"it's actually been SO useful for tons of other applications, like when I go camping, which I do very often"
Yeah because you want to be that guy who takes a fucking generator camping......
sack or crack you choose responding to a
comment by Antranik
09.30.11 - 9:58 am
reply
If your sound system only last 6 hours on half a tank of gas you're doing it wrong.
You can justify it anyway you want, yeah your class H amp is expensive and generates a lot of watts, but the reality is that no one wants ride behind or dance around a bike that generates emissions.
newarkhouse09.30.11 - 11:19 am
reply
I propose a soundbike showdown Saturday at City Hall!
vigilAnthony responding to a
comment by newarkhouse
09.30.11 - 11:46 am
reply
i don't want a bunch of hippies occupying my rave.
slowrighthand responding to a
comment by vigilAnthony
09.30.11 - 12:21 pm
reply
I'm confused which is worse, hippies or raves?
vigilAnthony responding to a
comment by slowrighthand
09.30.11 - 12:32 pm
reply
Antranik says:
"Please, review what I said in this message and refrain from using absolutist statements that just make an ass out of yourself."
After reviewing what you said in your post, I can gather this:
• you've not yet had to take your bike indoors w/ no power outlets on a ride (inexperience)
• you spent thousands of dollars on bloated home audio equipment to put on a bike (inexperience)
• you rationalize using gasoline by exclaiming how you drive a car and burn gas "ALL DAY". you say this on a bicycle forum, hahahahaha (crazy person)
• your pussy hurts because you dropped $1000 on a part that someone is naysaying on a public forum (child-like)
But my favorite part of your post by far:
"...dependency on oil doesn't bother me cause i drive something called a CAR that requires way more maintenance and fuel ALL DAY"
Well, I don't even really know what to say other than HAHAHAHAHA!! oh ok, sorry I guess you like added maintenance, giving money to oil companies and proclaiming your love of cars on a bike forum! My bad...
"get your head out of your ass about how the battery-power MUST be the best option and open your mind up a little. "
Right back at ya, bro.
To every point I listed you responded "a) don't care" "b) don't care" "c) don't care" "d) don't care". You remind me of the stereotypical hummer SUV driver with your reasoning. ...someone tells you that you're wasting tons energy and it smells like shit! "DON'T CARE"
Ignoring the truth will not make it go away, you wanna tell me something different? Go for it, hopefully it will be just as entertaining as the last time. But my guess is you guys are running out of juice by now.
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by Antranik
09.30.11 - 12:57 pm
reply
Nice job on avoiding the questions and the issues with batteries Jonny! I'll have to remember this thread when you drag out your system. Just make sure the competition is wrapped up in less than 4 hours and you'll probably have no problems. You'll just be dragging home a dead and lifeless system. NO FUN THERE!
Your biggest liability I see is that gas guzzling friend of yours Paul!
Oh and for the record I don't even own a car or a truck or a motorcycle.
DArK ENERgY09.30.11 - 2:35 pm
reply
neither do I or a lot of people here, do you want a cookie?
dark energy you could fill a gas tank with the amount of shit you don't know and then use it to power your computer so you can talk more shit about people and sound bikes you know nothing about.
newarkhouse responding to a
comment by DArK ENERgY
09.30.11 - 3:07 pm
reply
LOL
Oh DArK ENERgY! Thank you for saying it like you think it is and for your generous image contribution! Even though your buddy Antranik didn't ask me any questions about batteries, it still probably wouldn't be worth answering them because you're afraid to face the cold hard facts or you just "don't care". The facts go much deeper than the surface level which we have just barely skimmed. (ravedad could come in here at any moment and school all of our asses in terms of efficiency)
Truth is, I could sit around here all day putting a lot of energy into posts or try to explain it to you from the path of the entire audio signal- but all you'd have to do is use the internet to find it all out for yourself.
So what are you waiting for? You've obviously got a lot of learning to do! On with it now!
the future of mobile audio
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by DArK ENERgY
09.30.11 - 3:20 pm
reply
yeah, way to take a line out of context
...dependency on oil [FOR A GENERATOR] doesn't bother me cause i drive something called a CAR that requires way more maintenance and fuel ALL DAY
and good job on pretending cyclists cannot also be motorists at the same time.
anyway,
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument. -William G. McAdoo
Antranik responding to a
comment by jonnyboy
09.30.11 - 3:22 pm
reply
I would say using ignorant here is a poor choice of words. Clearly people don't lack the knowledge but put forth educated arguments.
Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them ignorant - ME
sack or crack you choose responding to a
comment by Antranik
09.30.11 - 3:27 pm
reply
"It's possibly very easy to defend oneself when the shit talker knows not what he argues about"
-me
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by Antranik
09.30.11 - 3:28 pm
reply
"If your sound system only last 6 hours on half a tank of gas you're doing it wrong."
How could you make such an assertion if you don't know how much power is being demanded from the system, how much the capacity for power generation is and how large the tank is? :rolls eyes:
"You can justify it anyway you want, yeah your class H amp is expensive and generates a lot of watts, but the reality is that no one wants ride behind or dance around a bike that generates emissions. "
So don't. No one is forcing you to do that.
God, this forum is fucking whack. I regret posting on here.
Antranik responding to a
comment by newarkhouse
09.30.11 - 3:31 pm
reply
aHahaha welcome to Midnight Ridazz forums, where the regrettable come to be regretted
This forum is right on, generators are whack dude! Fo realz! ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU TAKE IT CAMPING!
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by Antranik
09.30.11 - 3:34 pm
reply
"It's possibly very easy to defend oneself when the shit talker knows not what he argues about" -jonnyboy
WTF are you talking about? From the beginning of this thread you just started talking shit on my system as if I insulted you for not doing exactly as you would have done.
I replied to your posts with actual #'s to show how different our systems are in terms of power generation and capacity. But I guess you don't give a FUCK about that.
So anyway, good luck being 12 for the rest of your life.
Antranik responding to a
comment by jonnyboy
09.30.11 - 3:35 pm
reply
Chilllll out bro! I actually didn't shit talk your system at all, I simply disagreed with the generator (still do) and even invited you to my ride tonight but then you started talking shit on my gear for some reason which has been
tested for almost 2 years and is nearly flawless for what I or any angelope needs. You don't even know anything about my setup... But why should I have told you? You didn't even ask! You have only yourself to thank for escalating it to where it is now. Go read back, maybe you will be surprised.
Still, get your ass on my ride tonight, we are going far up the beach to a new destination. The more sound bikes the better. At the very least lets get you in on this sound bike competition?
And dude I am not going to take any of this personally- as I hope you wouldn't either when we inevitably cross paths around LA. I love it when people build sound bikes, just not too stoked that it needs a generator. Shit goes crazy on the forums, always does. Nothing new there.
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by Antranik
09.30.11 - 3:49 pm
reply
"Shit goes crazy on the forums, always does. Nothing new there."
No thanks to your fictitious friends you readily try to use to support your weak argument!
There's no sign of your gas guzzling friend Paul and there's NO ONE listed as raverDAD on this forum. Got anymore you'd like to introduce? hahahhahahahahahahaa!!!!!!!
Get back to what the OP introduced to you and pointed out what was weak on a battery powered system if you're lost! Leave your make believe friends out of this!
DArK ENERgY responding to a
comment by jonnyboy
09.30.11 - 4:22 pm
reply
I gotta say you had a pretty good run here DArK ENERgY, great trolling overall. I'm sure you had a good time, too bad it was at Antranik's expense. But now you must go, because you soiled yourself and never cleaned it up.
Unless Antranik has anything to say, I think we can lay this to rest now. Run along, silly troll. Shew shew! Nobody else is gonna feed you.
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by DArK ENERgY
09.30.11 - 4:36 pm
reply
man what a sad individual. :( How can you say you're doing a ride with an attitude like that? You never once tried to address questions aimed at you. Yet you spew forth all this crap with these fictitious people who are suppose to back you up? WTF?
Looks like that's about as much as we're expected to hear from you and your system. Just be careful and tailor any competition to fit your system. Don't let ANYONE dictate the competition.
DArK ENERgY responding to a
comment by jonnyboy
09.30.11 - 5:07 pm
reply
"No thanks to your fictitious friends you readily try to use to support your weak argument!
There's no sign of your gas guzzling friend Paul and there's NO ONE listed as raverDAD on this forum."
You've got a lot to learn young padawan. SHM.
Now let's RAAAAGGGGE! I mean, Rave.
Bikekowski responding to a
comment by DArK ENERgY
09.30.11 - 5:08 pm
reply
^^^ those dudes have their moms drive them around NYC. seriously.
dark energy how many sound bikes have you built? has any of them spent a week pushing air on a high desert in Nevada? have they been through the miles of tunnels beneath our feet? have you been ticketed by LAPD/CCPD because its too loud? have you lead rides across the city with it? Used it to power a dance party till past sunrise? stay out of it.
I'm all about more sound bikes (although I probably don't like your taste in techno Antranik) and the debate here has been educational, but the main reason this thread has become so emotional is because GAS POWERED GENERATORS ARE OFFENSIVE.
The smell is offensive, the sound is offensive and the prospect of their presence on a ride goes against one of Midnight Ridazz most fundamental tenants - PEDAL POWER OVER PETROLEUM. True the electricity that powers batteries can come from a number of unclean sources and they have lots of nasty stuff in them, but they can and are being powered by renewable energies, and can be recycled responsibly as well.
We all have to breath in an obnoxious amount of emissions every day, why would you add to that? Take responsibility for how your actions affect the community.
Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.
newarkhouse09.30.11 - 6:01 pm
reply
yo Antarik! you should add another generator and make that shit louder! we'll discuss this "techno" thing later
vigilAnthony responding to a
comment by newarkhouse
09.30.11 - 6:12 pm
reply
this thread is all kinds of WIN
FUCK SOLDERING IRONS!!! TWIST THEM WIRES!
Roadblock09.30.11 - 11:44 pm
reply
The type of shit MR forums should be filled with!!!!
Alfredo responding to a
comment by Roadblock
10.1.11 - 1:58 pm
reply
dark energy how many sound bikes have you built? Been a part of helping to build 3 bikes. We used a generator to recharge the batteries on the last build and it was the best build!
has any of them spent a week pushing air on a high desert in Nevada? Nope
have they been through the miles of tunnels beneath our feet? Nope
have you been ticketed by LAPD/CCPD because its too loud? Nope
have you lead rides across the city with it? Nope
Used it to power a dance party till past sunrise? Yep
stay out of it. Nope, does not compute!
Have you had over 500 RAVING DANCERS wanting to party till sunrise and able to accommodate them cause your system didn't peter out 4 hours into the party?
Have peeps able to find you 3 miles away cause they can hear you?
You guys are awful as a whole to new peeps here!
And you guys are with the rep of being easy to be plied with P&J sandwiches. You do know that's all over the net right? That's first thing peeps say about you guys!
hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!!!!!
Antranik, these guys are sad :(
DArK ENERgY responding to a
comment by newarkhouse
10.1.11 - 4:03 pm
reply
seriously, newarkhouse
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
Just don't respond to DArK ENERgY any further, Antranik does not care at this point (his lazepuss hurts enough). Hopefully for the sake of the inner sanctums of Midnight Ridazz it's enough that at the very least Antranik reconsiders using petroleum as part of a bike ride...
NUFF SAID
point has already been proven and digested
MOVE ALONG FOLKS
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by DArK ENERgY
10.2.11 - 3:44 am
reply
seriously, newarkhouse
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
All this troll is doing is making stuff up to make him look better (good luck with that!).
He makes up people around him that don't even exist! and all your doing is feeding the trolls newarkhouse. Work at becoming a better P&J sandwich maker! Have I told you about this dood that is
blogging about P&J ?!?!?!?!?
Lets work at becoming the P&J gang of the westcoast?????
Lets work at stuff thats meaningful and forget about this troll's so called "friends". How the hell cares about that gas guzzling Paul dood anyways???? And that make believe RaverDad???? paallezzz!!!!!
MOVE ALONG FOLKS
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
P&J party at my house!!!!
We'll figure out how to become a bad ass P&J gang!
Bring ur ideas!!!!
DArK ENERgY10.2.11 - 5:43 pm
reply
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Ridazz Roulette!
