DIY Bike Lanes
Thread started by
chunk at 06.18.07 - 10:09 am
Check this out the Other Urban Repair Squad in Toronto has taken to making their own bike lanes...
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/226454
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very similar to what the LADOaT is doing here in Los Angeles.
brassknuckle06.18.07 - 10:34 am
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sounds like a good idea! i seem to remember thinking about this before.... :)
4SBB
remember Cap't Sharrowzz....4SBB has been freshly repaved and stands ready as ever....
i even had a conversation with Councilman Tom LaBonge just the other day. I ran into him at a bike shop...by the way.
We discussed arranging one of those typical LA political photo-ops, but for a good cause.....
a symbolic "laying down of the SHARROW" ceremony on the 4sbb.
LaBonge is actually really into biking and has taken up 4SBB as a pet cause. Despite the fact that the advocacy movement in LA is not AT ALL UNIFIED, and also despite the fact that I resigned as a bike advocate, i can't help but bring this up.
There is energy, momentum and political will on our side. If we don't get out there and lay down some paint, we have only ourselves to blame.
If we want change we need to get over some of our own BULLSHIT and move forward.
I am deeply under-inspired by the work we have collectively managed to do here in LA... LACBC is as much of a joke as the BAC. Blame the bureacrats, blame capitalism, hell, blame Villaragosa, I don't f'n care.
The city will paint over and remove guerilla infrastructure in any case, even in Canada. Seems they have enough time and energy for that. So let's just roll over and give up, whaddya say? :) that's what i'm doing!!!!
WEEEEEEE!!!
HMPF.
ingipet06.18.07 - 11:11 am
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wasssup with the LADOaT?!
hard hats - $10
reflective vests - $10
cajones - priceless
permanent paint?!
Roadblock06.18.07 - 12:04 pm
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LADOAT -
*reflective paint?
*new stencil? something with harder edges? 2 or more stencils? faster to lay down?
*paint rollers from the 99 cent store
*2-4 people per stencil should with paint rollers, no more than 2 minutes per stencil....lay them down every 50 feet. should be 15 per half hour.
*perhaps use a color other than white for the stencils, like YELLOW - get them to stand out more. ?
*lay them down faster than they can scrape them away
*do it for the kidzz!!
ingipet06.18.07 - 12:15 pm
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Any glorious espionage and citizenry fueled subterfuge should be well planned and amply documented - en COSTUME.
It's LA folks, we have to make it a glamorous thing to do..
I'm so down, glitter spraypaint and ninga-tabbies, costumes, wiiiiiiiiiiiigs...
thundercourage06.18.07 - 12:18 pm
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spray rig works much better than rollers. small air compressor from home depot is under $100 and can be plugged into car cigarette lighter. it will lay the paint much more evenly in a thinner coat and goes much quicker. biggest problem is the paint doesn't dry very quickly, so the thinner the coat, the better chance there is of it drying before a car drives over it.
brassknuckle06.18.07 - 12:32 pm
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if the goal is for this to be taken seriously by motorists then I'm of the opinion that it has to be as close to what would be completely seemless integration with the existing road infrastructure. otherwise it wont fool anyone and may end up hurting real chances for improvement or to be taken as a serious cycling movement. the fact that this city is slow to accommodate bicycle traffic is as serious as rain. if the guerilla infrastructure is viewed by the uninitiated as an "art project" rather than a bonafide effort to create change, it will very likely be dismissed as work done by what neighbors and motorists would deem "hippy bike freek vandals" and considered a nuissance at best.... do what you will but I say make it look official and it will be treated as official. that LADOaT built to official spec sharrow stencil is a beautiful thing....
Roadblock06.18.07 - 12:39 pm
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brass I'm down to put in on a spray rig. how about a heat blower to quicken the dry time? this thread should prolly dissappear before it fall into the wrong eyes.
Roadblock06.18.07 - 12:41 pm
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I'm in. How about we rig the fan and spray rig to the bottom of my fiero and we can drive, paint, and dry all at once! YEEE HAW!!!
richtotheie06.18.07 - 1:08 pm
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i don't know.
i think we should have the COURAGE to stand up for our convictions.
Those cats up in Canada did that in BROAD DAY LIGHT.
I agree with RB that we should do something so seamless and tight that it actually brings beauty and usefulness to the space.
However, I don't think we should HIDE.
Let them see exactly what we are doing, ask for their help and support. Show that we are not the "hippie bike freaks" that we sometimes act like.
Tom LaBonge for instance, is already sold on the idea of Sharrows.
Lets be honest and put ourselves out there in broad daylight.
Leave the thread up. Send it to the wrong eyes.
Challenge the problems and seek creative solutions.
ingipet06.18.07 - 1:12 pm
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I think the enthusiasm is great. I support the planning and execution of this. However, I encourage that we watch out for each other and maintain a level of security and prevention of interference from 'daylight crawlerz'.
Joe Borfo06.18.07 - 1:21 pm
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Ingipet the courage comes from our public displays of riding bicycles together everywhere and anywhere and exercising our legal rights to the road. but when it comes to illegal activities courage wont help for shit when the cops have you handcuffed and you are in need of a lawyer to get you out of harms way. sure, you can fight it and maybe even win, but will you have the courage to continue on with a prior on your record? covert is the only way to go with this in my humble opinion.... the powers that be are way too powerful to confront face to face with what is very define-able as felony vandalism. and until I see something concrete, LaBonge is just another puppet politician making empty promises.
Roadblock06.18.07 - 1:27 pm
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Maybe the best tactic is to do both OVERT and COVERT actions.
Either way, I stepped out of this for a reason and I think i will again.
So frustrating. We can't even have an open dialogue without self-censorship, bickering and fear.
I want to organize a public meeting somewhere so that we can have a true debate about this.
Or maybe we would all be scared to voice our opinions in front of each other?
Bah humbug.
Bah.
ingipet06.18.07 - 1:29 pm
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i even agree COMPLETELY with you RB.
Covert is a better way to avoid the arrest + lawyer aspect, but not really a better way to begin an open dialogue.
Politicians may be puppets, but we should learn how to pull the strings!!
all i ever tried to do was inject a positive voice into this whole mess. get us to take ourselves a bit less seriously and laugh.
i still love the spirit of midnight ridazz rides.
keeping that up the the best part of it all...
so thank you RB!!!
ingipet06.18.07 - 1:33 pm
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I think that we just need to be careful Ingi. We're on the same page. But the officials aren't. Ye,s let's discuss this and plan and execute. I'm willing to work with all of you.
Joe Borfo06.18.07 - 1:34 pm
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Is there a ride happening tomorrow night (tuesday) ? If not, the LaDoAT should get together for some planning. I for 1 get out of work (in DTLA) at 5:00.
RB, my vote is to give this thread another day before scrapping it.
420LaHaRR06.18.07 - 1:36 pm
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"all i ever tried to do was inject a positive voice into this whole mess. get us to take ourselves a bit less seriously and laugh. "
the ride is fun and people laugh and enjoy themselves..... I just awarded the world's smallest spoke card for the winner of the world's slowest race..... not sure how less seriously we can take this.... I believe there's a time and place for laughs and for seriousness..... when it comes to civil infrastructure I get real serious minded because that is life and death, that is more than just for the Ridazz it is for the public at large and whether or not all cyclists of all attitudes and tastes can enjoy safe roads. VERY serious to me.
and what better place than a public forum to discuss issues so that people get their turn to write what they think and be able to chime in without being interupted.....
hey Richie, I think you are on to something with your idea....... wonder if it's possible to weld a pipe to your muffler and drill air holes across it laying it parallel to your bumper?? spray and dry baby.
Roadblock06.18.07 - 1:41 pm
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hey you know we have some incredible resources at hand here...... what up with Chopercobbras and their welding/building/ Mr. T would envy them brilliance.... can we get a design togethr that makes this proicess more automated and quick??
Roadblock06.18.07 - 1:47 pm
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A low rider van with an open floor?...
Joe Borfo06.18.07 - 1:51 pm
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RB -
i was trying to inject a positive voice into the *ADVOCACY* debate...which is distinct from Midnight Ridazz.
what i was saying was that we are RIGHT ON with Ridazz and our spirit of playful laughing at ourselves-ness.
That is what should continue, so I thank you for it.
I agree, the city level stuff is SERIOUS and should be handled differently than a midnight ridazz ride.
let's have a meeting tomorrow/Tuesday and discuss....we are all on the same page here...
ingipet06.18.07 - 1:54 pm
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(at Borfo) LOL! THAT would be siiiiick. ^^^
Roadblock06.18.07 - 1:54 pm
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oop. i actually can't meet tomorrow...but i support the efforts of the LADOaT!!!
and just for the record -
can we please NOT consider 4SBB for guerilla style sharrowzz? there is already enough attention on the 4sbb and we could save it for the puppet politicians and photo-op bullshit?
not that i think i would go down or anything... :)
i could just as easily say that a gang of wild beer drinking hippie freaks thought 4SBB was a good place to start with their wild and radical painted blow-drier bicycles.....
hahahahhahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
HA!
ingipet06.18.07 - 2:05 pm
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My 2 cents:
Find someone with access to a white commercial van or pickup truck.
Everyone would need to dress in appropriate attire: work boots, hard hats and reflective vests.
Have the appropriate tools and do a professional looking job.
If we look like we are a painting subcontractor doing a job for the city, no one will ever question it or even think to remove it.
Repeat the following unitl you start believing it:
"We are the Roadblock Construction Company."
"We are the Roadblock Construction Company."
"We are the Roadblock Construction Company."
The best way to hide is in plain site.
BillyB06.18.07 - 2:17 pm
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Hiding in plain sight doesn't always work as well as you would think.
Haywood06.18.07 - 2:23 pm
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Good Point Billy B. This has been attempted before as you've described. We just need to fine tune things just a bit. LADO@T is currently underway.
Joe Borfo06.18.07 - 2:25 pm
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one of the best things about this site is the ability to search threads, by the title and most importantly who posted what and when. It can give you a history of who posted what and when, on a particular thread. Everybody should try it. I checked out "chunk" and saw that he started about ten threads, and then never posted on it again. Those thread seem to cause some comotion amongst those who got involved in it. Although if you read his writing, he is a voice of reason, and talks of experience as true cyclist. This is just my observation.
Reguarding censorship. History is important, If you don't know about Sherman Austin and raise the fist. I suggest you do a little research and understand the repercussion that can happen to a webmaster, if the powers that be decide, to come down on somebody. If something happens and they hold the webmaster of this site liable, ain't none of you going to come to his aid with lawyer fees, or much less take up the slack of this project we all get to use, if that person gets banned from using the internet, as what happened with Mr. Austin. You sure as hell ain't going to be the one doing the time. As much as I hate censorship, people have to protect themselve. Until you put your name on this account and are willing to suffer the consequences of somebody mouthing off on it, don't be so quick to cry Big Brother.
I would also sugguest that those that want to take on such a endevour such as this. Talk to those that have done such a thing, and find out what happen when they did, and how they feel about it now. That person is readily available and will gladly tell you about the experience. I think you all know who I am talking about. This person has not shy away from being a bicycle advocate, this person is just going on to things that they found may work or are trying different avenues.
sexy06.18.07 - 2:30 pm
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wow, never knew about Sherman Austin thanks for that sexy..... what a bizarre website that raisethefist is..... almost seems like some agent provacatuer shit by the way it's written and the stance it takes on Iran....
Roadblock06.18.07 - 2:42 pm
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As with any act of civil disopediance, there is a law here (actually a numer of them) that we would break. Not only would we jeopardize the midnight ridazz website, as sexy so graciously poinited out, but I've actually worked for the justice department (true story) in DC and can tell you, you post it, they'll find you (if they want to, which I dont' think THEY would about something like this).
Yes, ever since Bush slayed democracy we have more fear, but we are still free, and I have a mind for change, but we are also missing something here too. As passionate as we all are, we could organize rides specifically to promote awareness about this issue.
It's cool to e a ninja but it's cooler to be a wookie. Wookies are more effective and they don't say much.. They just fix it.
A solution that creates more drama is not a very good solution.
But I'm always down for public art projects. I vote we stage a gnarly accident as we're painting the bike lane, film the whole thing and plaster it all over the internet. Like those "truth" ads about not smoking, but with like en mass cyclists.
thundercourage06.18.07 - 2:50 pm
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I don't know who is running Raisethefist.com now. I just looked at it and couldn't go to any of the links, it said forbidden. I wasn't able to read the article on Iran and Israle
I do know they came after him, for a link some white kid in O.C. posted about how to build an explosive devise. I do believe they have the whole history of his case on la.indymedia.org. (do a search, for all the aritcle and story about his case)
All he did was manage a website that allowed peole to post messages an links on, amongst things that he posted himself
sexy06.18.07 - 2:58 pm
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this is a great debate!!
okay, i just learned something important.
I have too much love for what Roadblock is doing taking the risk to keep this site up.
From now on, i'm a class act, grade A, law abiding citizen.
ain't nobody gonna come after me cause i love the unicorns right?
@thundercourage-
i LOVE the stage spectacle idea. that is totally how we can walk the line on this issue!!! TO THE STREETS!
ingipet06.18.07 - 4:39 pm
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OK so. Roadblock. You are my new anti-hero.
If anyone is down to seriously discuss how this could be done, email me at:
thundercourage@gmail.com
From there I will send you an invite to a private discussion group. It wont be as purty as the midnight ridazz website, but we can damn sure talk about whatever the hell we want to without fear of the man.
Make google bear the weight of privacy.
Thunderlove Ya'll
RIDE ON!
thundercourage06.18.07 - 4:59 pm
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guys guys..... we're talking about bicycles not fucking blowing up cars. I always promote good relations with the police. there's really no reason to worry. the only censorship I was advocating for is bleeping out racist/sexist words. this thread isnt really all that bad... but in the interest of remaining covert it might be good to delete it at some point.... maybe tomorrow once the cia and fbi computers have archived it. LOL
now about the spectacle? it will be essentially a flash in the pan I think. a puff of smoke and then gone because it takes a lot of energy to get creative and have showmanship when this is really about coverage of area. what the best that will happne? someone films it and it gets on youtube? then what.... or it might get airplay on abc and they twist you up to look like commie hippees oin bikes not safety advocates for the public interest. I'm more for something that promises longevity.... I just really think we need to see this from a motorists point of view. the average joe upperclass Los Angeles Motorist..... they are the ones that have sway in our system. you sell them the idea and it's a go. sad but true in my opinion.
I'm always curious to look at issues from the exact opposite view as my own and assess it like this.... if I were of a certain view and had certain values what would it take to convince me TRULY of switching sides to the opposite? I'm talking TRULY. I get pretty frustrated when I see both sides of an issue just simply hope to out shout each other. that's more often the case and when it comes to the positions that I take, I would have to out shout the billion dollar major news media outlets combined and that aint gonna happen.... my lungs are not that strong. so I'm looking for the sales pitch.... what would sell my position to the other side. you have to speak to the values that the other side carries.... kinks in the armor. every now and then I get a chance to hear major/ rightwing media outlets I listen to AM garbage sometimes, rush limbaugh bill o'reilly. you have to study their position and understand it before you can defeat it. of course most of the time you just want to puch em in the face! haha
what I'm saying is just imagine how motorists will react if they are firstly confronted with unbeknownst to them a "fake accident" and secondly once they find out it was a hoax what they will think.... I dont know, I tend to think the reaction would be unfavor-able just like I tend to think that drivers confronted with unofficial looking signage may not have a favor-able impression of the movement.
I could totally be wrong but I just think that if the motorists had no idea that the signage is guerilla because it looks like it fits in with everything else that they would just go along with it and accept it. I coudl totally be wrong though.
Roadblock06.18.07 - 5:20 pm
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No roadblock, you are exactly right about the signage.
Think about how flooded your sensory perceptions are while driving a car through a metro area. You have only a certain amount of time to 'take in' your surroundings so anything that looks official enough, will be taken as such. I mean, just look at advertising. These billboards are designed to catch your attention and sway you to buy shit in mere seconds.
If we want them to acknowledge us, our infrastructure must be nearly impossible to spot as guerilla. And when you think about it, all we really need for this to become reality is the same confidence (almost arrogance), authority, and self-righteousness that *they* have. As long as the job is done in professional matter, no one (not even cops, city workers, etc) will think twice about what we are doing.
But, most of all. We need to PHYSICALLY meet to discuss this. Because the internet is not always the best means of communication for security reasons and not to mention it often clouds the lines of communication.
When are we meeting?
kyber06.18.07 - 5:44 pm
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kinda off topic but since we want to trip the fbi computers a little more with keywords I have a lil story about a march I saw when I was in Spain that speaks in part to the two approaches we are discussing...
. specifically I was in Bilbao and my understanding of the situation over there is that Bilbao is in the Basque region - a very well off rich area of Spain. They have their own terrorist group however. This group the so called Basque Seperatists wish to cecede from spain and create their own Basque nation. basically they are rich terrorists. Well, I saw this march walking through the streets and I tripped because the people looked to be normal everyday looking citizens. No one was wearing masks and funnny parody costumes they just looked like everyone else and they didnt even say anything they just marched with banners and what I assume to be pictures of the deceased invovled with that movement or victims of it. I'm not sure, I couldnt translate the signs..... it hit me that this type of march was one that ordinary people would be attracted to walking in because what appeared to be common everyday people walked in it. I thought it was pretty effective in maybe reaching out to a new market share... versus an angry and flambouyant crowd of "artists" or "liberals" who might well offend your ordninary (yet important) citizen who is maybe a little shy about taking a stand in public.. believe it or not There are quite a few conservatives out there for example who are against bush but wouldnt be seen dead amongst a crowd of hippees. so the opportunity for their numbers and for erosion and conversion is gone... lets get past the personal showmanship and get down to business is what I'm saying lets rally everybody behind the cause by taking care to sell them the idea in a way they can see themselves taking up the cause.
it's difficult and many times their just isnt a compromise but I'm not sure what else is going to gain market share in our protest against shoddy bicycle infrastructue
Roadblock06.18.07 - 5:53 pm
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can anyone translate this shit? watch, it's wasnt evena protest but rather some sort of sports rally HAHAH
Roadblock06.18.07 - 5:55 pm
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"Think about how flooded your sensory perceptions are while driving a car through a metro.....billboards are designed to catch your attention and sway you to buy shit in mere seconds. "
EXACTLY. These billion dollar companies that advertise didnt become billion dollar companies by chance. they literally study consumer habits like they are in college. they have focus groups and elaborate testing. there are companies that make millions by testing people for the billion dollar companies.... trend forcasting, focus groups, target audience, test market all this bullshit going on basically behind the scenes so that they can make a product or idea appealing to you. why shouldnt we fight fire with fire?
your average joe schmoe is a consumer of goods in our system. how will you get them to consume YOUR idea? disrupting their lives or alienating them ? or sneaking it in.... it's got to be a jedi mind trick.... a wave of the hand a smile on the lips. :) <
Roadblock06.18.07 - 7:11 pm
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HAHAHAHAHA!...quote of the year:
-guys guys..... we're talking about bicycles not fucking blowing up cars.
classic
420LaHaRR06.18.07 - 8:33 pm
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While I agree that any signage should be as close as possible to existing signage for the purpose of being effective, I also think that there is room to stage "performance art" type messages as well.
I actually work for one of those fortune 500 companies developing branding and messaging to infect young consumerist minds and train them to buy. Which is what I love so much about the ridazz, thier DIY ethic. DIY needn't be shoddy or ineffective, but I agree that we should meet and talk about it.
Either way, if no one is interested in "performance art" around this, you all can do it your way and I'm still inspired to affect change in my way.
There is also the idea of rides along specific streets that NEED bike lanes, which does not seem to be a popular idea, but with the right political backing and media coverage could be very effective. Riding the green wave and getting current tv coverage and exposure on media outlets is fairly easy if you brand your message right.
So what is the message?
I interpret it as: Citizens need bike lanes NOW.. not in 7 years.
There are several major companies that are struggling right now to adopt green programs like carpooling and incentive$$ for employees biking to work. It certianly wouldn't hurt to see if they would be interested in partnering to step up their efforts. Lets make the money makers, the industry tycoons pony up and put thier money where thier Pr mouths are.
thunderthighs06.18.07 - 11:18 pm
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You know, the thing is-- setting up things like media coverage etc etc sounds great in an ideal 'fluffy bunny' world. However, we all know that there are tons of companies out there who are riding the 'green wave' just because they believe it's a fad that they can capitalize off of riding. Most of them really could care less about the environment or the people, it's all about how to make a buck. As a result, it will probably be very difficult to get major media outlets to cover the idea of bicycle lanes/blvds/whatever mostly because this is an example of a story that simply DOES NOT SELL. Remember, they are running these programs and advertisers spend tons of cash for ads created by psychologists who understand how to quickly and effectively create a desired behavioral result (in this case it would be consumption [preferably conspicuous]).
What's my point, you ask? The DIY ethic has worked (to an extent) and will continue to work for us. Provided that we are able to band together and put all the weird internal factions aside for a while. No matter where we think we stand, the obvious fact that we are all on bicycles is often so easily forgotten.
kyber06.18.07 - 11:51 pm
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Yes roadblock, you are on to something here.
It's like you said earlier about talk radio, and how you must study the 'other' in order to fully understand their perspective so that you can intelligently take away all opposition.
In other words, perhaps we need to look more into what exactly is offensive to the motorist about our dream of truly shared roadways. Is it merely an issue of pre-conventional morality (ie: what's in it for me?) or are we dealing with something more along the lines of authority and social order orientation that can easily be combated by a well constructed DIY campaign? We won't know until we study the other....
I'll stop here, for fear that the google spiders will index this page, and promptly flag it for processing by the neat NSA network known as Echelon.
I suppose the motto "Don't be evil." was mere collegian irony. Man would it be nice if we had a more secure medium to discuss these things.
kyber06.19.07 - 12:02 am
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Roadblock, there can be no meaningful comparison between an ethnic separatist movement like that of the Basques and a purely political (and very, very small) movement like militant bicycle advocacy. The Basque separatists don't have to "reach out" to the sensibly-dressed, non-hippie "mainstream" Basque people to get them to attend marches; those same mainstream people are the heart and soul of the movement, and always have been. Why? Because it's their ethnic pride that binds them together, not their views on some specific political issue like globalization or the Iraq war or whether bike riders should have equal rights with car drivers on the street. It's in the nature of ethnic and nationalist movements to attract socially conservative Average Joe types.
My point is that the Basque separatists don't have to wring their hands and bite their knuckles trying to think of ways to avoid alienating the common folk; they
are the common folk. I was about to say that it's apples and oranges, but it's not even that. It's more like apples and DVD players. So if your thing is to go as far out of your way as possible to make sure you don't scare off the Middle American types, that's fine (I guess...actually that's a lie; I think it's ineffective and pointless), but please don't use an ethnic movement like Basque separatism as an exemplar. Those people face a lot of challenges, but trying to push an extremely unpopular agenda to the mainstream of their community isn't one of them.
PC06.19.07 - 12:16 am
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Wow really great comments all really good points
PC I think people are definitely bound by ethnic ties and very strongly so as you say, but I also believe people can be bound as strongly by other common causes...
Money being almost if not the same strength of bond.
My belief is that everyone has basically the same core values. That is, to live a comfortable and fullfilling life. I don't believe in the concept of good and evil. So, I'm always kind of scheming as to how to explain an issue with these basic values made clear in the issue.
Roadblock06.19.07 - 3:13 am
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Two thoughts:
Generally speaking, Americans don't consider bicycles to be legitimate, "adult" transportation, so trying to convince the Average Joe to support bicycle-specific projects is going to be an uphill battle. I think bicycling needs to be sold as an element in a complete strategy for improving the quality of life for everyone, and could work alongside traffic calming, pedestrian infrastructure, and smarter zoning to reduce commute times and encourage people to use their local businesses. If this idea could take root at the neighborhood level in a few places around the city, it might have a shot at influencing citywide policy.
Any unauthorized street markings are going to be considered vandalism and removed at taxpayer expense - the more visible they are, the faster they'll go. It's possible that enough people will get the point to make the act worth it, or it might be that people will just see it as graffiti, and it'll be gone too fast to make an impact.
angle06.19.07 - 3:45 am
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BTW - serious writing aside - I'm down for any kind of "performance art" stuff, as long as it's fun.
Fun is infectious.
angle06.19.07 - 3:55 am
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Not to stray to far off the discussion, but I'd like to say a bit about sharrows and bicycle lanes. I was on Lake Ave in Pasadena last night, and I noticed that most of the entire streach starting from Colorado Blvd to California Blvd was completely loaded up with Sharrows. These sharrows were half the size that LADOaT had put together, which I thought were regulation size. Nevertheless, Lake ave. was full of them, including road signs which read Share the Road.
Anyhow, I was impressed by this. It wasn't very expensive looking at all. Actually, the paint they used for the Sharrows was not very thick or reflective at all. And the size of the sharrows were dissapointingly small. I guess what I am trying to say is, it seems like Pasadena have gone to some efforts to put out sharrows, why has'nt Los Angeles?
As far as this discussion between whether we should do covert sharrows or performance art attention getting; Perhaps we could have two different parties? One, such as the current LADOaT, who can cover a lot of ground and do it well planned in properly assigned sharrow needed locations. And then, there can be a group who wants to arrange a demonstration of some sort on a certain day and location should go ahead and organize such. You guys decide whether or not you will dress as old basque villagers or your normal freak selves, it don't matter to Jesus.
Now for an even longer commentary by Sexy.
OH YEAH!
Joe Borfo06.19.07 - 9:35 am
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Not sexy here (that's a matter of opinion), but Pasadena has been moving pretty quickly on this bike infrastructure thing because they've got a Mayor who's committed to making it happen. Maybe the fact that they're a smaller burg helps, too, I don't know.
By the way, check the upper left of that pic above and notice the guy riding on the sidewalk, even though there's a sharrow in the street! The other part of equation is educating cyclists as to their rights, how to ride safely and to use the streets!
mr rollers06.19.07 - 10:29 am
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Ok, I've been debating whether or not to comment on this issue, as it is something I have given a LOT of thought to. And done a little experimentation of my own, albeit not controlled double blind, but still, I've done some research into this topic, long before now.
I've been working within the methods of what could be considered DIY public space art for quite some time now, and the conclusion I have come to is that quite often DIY actually sends a message quite well. We are surrounded by signage, advertising, and all that other slickly made stuff, having something that is hand made actually makes a people notice it. It kind of does several things, one is that it breaks the pattern of visual clutter in an urban space, it doesn't look manufactured, therefore its rough edges or hand painted lines DO stand out, it has to do with the way the human brain recognizes patterns.
Secondly, it allows a person of in-extravagant means to attempt to make a statement, manufacturing stuff can cost a LOT of money, more than most people with something to say can throw at a project.
Sure it may not stay up as long, or it just might.
I know of a certain hand made, guerrilla sign that hung at one of the busiest intersections on hollywood blvd for 2 1/2 months, on a street that averages 250000 people a day traveling.
From my own experiences, people recognize hand made stuff a well, if not better than corporate, or state manufactured stuff.
Anyway, what does it matter, if people want to try to make a statement, let them do their thing, and don't get down on them. At least they're out there doing something, and not just bitching about what others are doing.
FuzzBeast06.19.07 - 12:03 pm
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right on fuzz! i'm glad you posted after our conversation about this thread.
i'm still simmering with the idea and appreciating the range of the debate.
i sincerely believe that a live public debate style forum is a better venue for a conversation of this nature.
let's stage a big debate! bring some bicycle voices together, write some interesting questions and get a moderator.....video tape it, edit that shit down and send it off to current TV and everywhere else.
i don't think we need to frame ourselves as being "at-odds" with people who are stuck in car culture. we are not at odds! cars are not the enemy, neither are the people who drive them.
debates, performances, discussion and of course RIDING your bicycle can all be used in positive ways to influence attitudes.
are we so far past the point of UBER-CYNICAL that we cannot believe that there really are beautiful and effective ways to engage wtih this issue?
ingipet06.19.07 - 1:11 pm
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Fuzz thats a pretty good point. I have noticed your signs around town. I actually like them a lot to be honest. Maybe it's because they emulate actual civic design and have the hand crafted catch your eye look to them. Though I think it's the message of each sign that really speaks to me. The messages are so easy to understand and fun.
I like the idea of performance art stuff so long as it doesnt inconvenience the very people we are trying to win to the cause. your average person in this country is so short sited that they judge you by how your big picture statement is affecting their personal schedule. it's one of the problems of MR especially when it was 1500 deep and it's still an issue now, car drivers still get pissed off - because they dont see the fun in it like we do.... so maybe the performance art could occur on the steps of city hall or some place out of traffic?
how about smaller sharrow stencils? seems easier to manage.
Roadblock06.19.07 - 3:19 pm
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how about if we host a monthly "DIY BIKE LANE" event and make sure to change up the organizers every time to present as many creative, legal, effective and damn near beautiful perspectives as possible.
if we were sustaining it though as a monthly thang, it could have a chance to grow and adapt.
we could also continue to outreach to find more and more legitimate, inspiring and effective ways to affect the attitudes of motorists, city officials and even of other riders.
ingipet06.19.07 - 4:59 pm
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Ingacorn
You already know my feelings on this. Anyone down to make art around this my email is:
thundercourage@gmail.com
Peace Im so outta this discussion.
thunderthighs06.20.07 - 1:16 pm
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Fast drying paint, midday, on a quiet street.
Keep the numbers of sharrows per painting low (2 or 3 max).
The next hurdle is keeping the person who wants rat you out to the authorities to keep quiet. Figueroa Blvd. had some bomb sharrows until someone told the authorities about them. No one was the wiser.
ubrayj0206.20.07 - 1:33 pm
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I've read on this forum before where people wanted to try to put up flyers/posters/signs, etc. extolling the virtues of riding a bicycle vs. driving a car.
There has been some good discussion on this thread of how take this message "Main Stream" to the more conservative masses without making ourselves look like a bunch of crazies spewing off at the mouth.
As someone who was in the military for 9 years (Including Desert Storm and Guantanamo Bay) and worked for a bank for 5 years, I think I'm one of the more "Main Stream" people lurking on these boards, so for what it's worth here's the type of billboard messages that would work for me were I not already a bike enthusiast.
"No Blood for Oil. Ride a bike instead"
"Ever wonder how much of the gasoline you buy comes from countries that hate the US? Ride a bike instead"
"Piss on OPEC. Ride a Bike"
There are of course plenty of other good reasons such as the environment, health benefits and economic benefits, but most of those people already agree with us.
Make it about oil and how the US is exporting our wealth to the very same people that want to kill us, and you'll get conservative America's support.
BillyB06.22.07 - 4:23 pm
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nice one BillyB. if it really actually is about increasing ridership and increasing a constituency of voters that will pressure for more bicycle infrastructure than we have to meet people in the middle and play up the commonalities. I'm not saying to lie or mis-represent your ideals, just find common points we can all agree on and build on that. though I dont believe in the concept of a terrorist per se - (one mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter et al. ) I do believe that the energy companys' influence on US foreign policy (state sponsored terrorism) is one major reason that oppressed people are inspired to hit back.... so in light of this I'm really comfortable with those slogans. here's one I found on bikeforums:
"Starve a terrorist, ride a bike."
To me the energy companies are the terrorists....
Roadblock06.25.07 - 2:57 pm
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