The Prius Paradox
Thread started by
GarySe7en at 03.6.08 - 9:56 am
One might think that with the supposed eco consciousness of driving a Pruis, that Prius drivers might have a greater affinity for cyclists on the road than typical drivers. My observations from bike commuting suggest that not only is this not the case, but that they may be even more antagonistic toward cyclists then other drivers.
The latest example of this for me, was today I got cursed at for making a legal move to the left lane to make a turn while properly signaling. I have not been yelled at for this on my commute in quite some time, and who other then the Prius driver to break my not getting yelled at streak.
Has any one else made similar observations?
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Are there any other kinds of cars besides Priuses in Santa Monica? I thought I saw a biodiesel Mercedes once, but it turned out I was in Venice already.
stevestevesteve03.6.08 - 10:16 am
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A lot of Prius owners use to own BMW's, Mercedes, Lexus or SUV's. They are only buying a Prius to save money on gas and because it is now "chic" to drive a hybrid. Actually a bare-bones Toyota Camry or a Honda Civic is more efficient in the long term....but definitely not more "hip".
Just because someone is driving a Prius doesn't mean they are courtesy or environmentally friendly. They may be the assholes who use to drive a BMW.
skd03.6.08 - 10:20 am
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Prius owners tend to be snobby conservative pricks, IMO.
I drive a Honda Civic CNG (natural gas powered) - I'm not snobby and very bicycle conscious.
I don't get the whole Hydrogen bullshit. CNG burns clean, is abundant, and cheap. They could even hybrid with CNG, but The whole car industry is fucked. They never push for CNG. Natural Gas is the best environmental atlternative next to bio-diesel and they will never admit it. But, I'm trying to ride my bike more for regular means as much as possible.
Joe Borfo03.6.08 - 10:32 am
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this is a interesting bulletin because I have been telling people that the number one car that almost hits me are prius hybrids. never been hit by one but I have had literally 50 close calls with prius drivers driving reckless. I started thinking about the psychology behind a prius driver to see if I could better understand their brainwaves. I have my theories.
here are some interesting statistics
americans constitute five percent of the world's population but consume 25 percent of the world's energy. On average, one American consumes as much energy as 2 Japanese, 6 Mexicans, 13 Chinese, 31 Indians, 128 Bangladeshis, 307 Tanzanians, or 370 Ethiopians.
studiodrome03.6.08 - 10:59 am
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I realize it's purely anecdotal, but the guy who ran a stop sign and hit me in January was driving a Prius.
I'd say that most of my close calls though are with SUVs and trucks. There's just not enough room on the road for those things and I think half the people driving them don't realize how big they are.
mr rollers03.6.08 - 11:30 am
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i've never driven one, but the Prius is a weird shape. it looks like it would be harder for the driver to see outward at normal angles. Maybe the Prius' geometry has something to do with it.
Or they are all jerks. I dont know, one of the two.
SKIDMARCUS03.6.08 - 11:37 am
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"americans constitute five percent of the world's population but consume 25 percent of the world's energy."
How much of that global population is even capable of energy consumption?
Eric Hair03.6.08 - 11:42 am
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How about this.
The Prius is a popular car!
Eric Hair03.6.08 - 11:43 am
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Or maybe they're too busy watching that video screen that tells you the MPG and battery charge status.
It's true that the rear visilbilty is bad on a Prius; they now come with a video camera mounted over the license plate so you can see when you're backing up.
mr rollers03.6.08 - 11:47 am
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I've consumed Mexican, Japanese, and Chinese but Tanzanian is pretty gross.
Joe Borfo03.6.08 - 11:49 am
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How much of that global population is even capable of energy consumption?
I have no idea.
but if we did know what could we determine?
studiodrome03.6.08 - 11:51 am
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One theory from my observation, is that perhaps the car driver to jerk ass ratio is similar across makes and models, but that I expect more understanding from an "eco" car, and thus notice their jerk assness more acutely. One unsettling thing about reckless Prius drivers however, is that unlike other cars, they are harder to hear coming up behind you, especially on streets with a lot of competing noise.
If anything SUV's are probably the worst, since they tend to be so damn wide, in addition to the potential for jerk ass behind the wheel. Although I'm not sure if I've been yelled at by SUV's anymore then other types of vehicles on the road.
GarySe7en03.6.08 - 11:52 am
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I think Marcus has a point.... to a point.
I can't speak to the typical attitudes of Prius drivers, but I know from having driven one and in one that the view planes are a bit different than some other cars. Now clearly they aren't the only cars with blind spots, but I believe it could be one factor.
@Borfo
I agree with you that if we all switched to cng from gasoline tomorrow, we would likely reduce some of the smog causing particulates and improve air quality generally. But cng is by no means a viable long term answer since it is still fossil fuel and will cause similar results long term. And of course it will run out.
The Hydrogen model is pretty good over all. The problem is that the current administration is focussed on generating Hydrogen from fossil fuels, which is a net nothing; so why bother.
If we could ramp up Hydrogen generation from wind and solar sources, then we would have something. Not holding my breathe of course.
We as a country, myself included, are dodging the hard choices and our politicians are happy to let us; as long as we re-elect them.
Drew03.6.08 - 11:57 am
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Going north on Gower, my friend and I got informed by a passenger in a Pious that "you are not a car."
The Pious tends to be quieter and nearly silent with the gas engine off and you just don't hear them. That has been shown to contribute to accidents.
While it is a much more responsible choice than a huge SUV, the Pious still consumes gas.
When I last checked, you still can't get something for nothing.
cabhauler03.6.08 - 12:03 pm
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Hey Borfo, can you refuel at home right off the natural gas feed to the house? I'm guessing the car would need a compressor on board, but is it otherwise the same fuel?
and no shit a bicycle isn't a car. I'd have responded to the pious passenger that my vehicle is infinitely cleaner than a car to operate. What was his/her point, exactly? That only cars are allowed on taxpayer funded roads?
ideasculptor03.6.08 - 12:12 pm
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The comment left me so crestfallen that I didn't say anything.
cabhauler03.6.08 - 12:25 pm
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Sam - A home connection kit costs $ 1,900 - but you would save tons from having to pump from the fueling stations.
Drew- "And of course it will run out." - Nope. Natural Gas will never stop coming out of my ass...
Joe Borfo03.6.08 - 12:50 pm
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"How much of that global population is even capable of energy consumption?
I have no idea.
but if we did know what could we determine?
studiodrome"
>> It exagerates the numbers in such a way as to make the US population look as small as possible.
I'm not saying that any of the facts are incorrect, just that I'm warry of any arguement that puts the agenda above a clean, fact driven argument; not something riddled with fallacies.
Eric Hair03.6.08 - 1:03 pm
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I'd like to have t-shirts made that say "I am not a car".
Even when I am driving or riding in a car I like to remind myself that I am still first and foremost a human being.
mr rollers03.6.08 - 1:09 pm
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the US population is actually smaller than 5 percent of the world population. so what is the exaggeration?
these studies are conducted by none other than the United States of America. If we want our economy to be strong we have to consume a lot of resources. Is there embarrassment in this? I suppose thats for every individual to determine for themselves.
studiodrome03.6.08 - 1:15 pm
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"I'd like to have t-shirts made that say "I am not a car". "
I AM TRAFFIC
BUT I AM NOT A CAR.
toweliesbong03.6.08 - 1:16 pm
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With all due respect, no, the hydrogen model is NOT good overall. The idea that there's promise in making hydrogen from renewable energy is a myth that needs to die once and for all. I'm a magazine editor for wind industry's trade magazine, and have covered all renewable energy (RE) technologies full time since 2003.
The RE industries are not in favor of their technologies being used to create hydrogen because the whole process involves too many conversions and therefore is way too inefficient and expensive to be practical.
Energy from renewables should be put straight into the existing electric grid where it can be provided at its lowest cost. Plug-in hybrids show real promise as long as the proportion of renewables in a system's energy portfolio continues to rise (which it is). That way we're charging up with some percentage of power coming from renewables while also using those technologies in the most efficient manner.
These points have pretty widely been embraced in energy circles where hydrogen is basically dead. No one's talking hydrogen anymore and the venture capitol funding has all but dried up. Good riddance.
By the way....on the Prius tip.....I'll skew the curve by mentioning that a prius yesterday did the unthinkable in this city: even though they passed me while approaching an intersection, where they were going to take a right, they slowed down to deliberately let me pass on the right before they took their turn. Most Europeans do this by habit but I've never seen it or expected it in the US. Oh, and of course, some ass-hat behind the prius had to lay on the horn because they didn't understand the Prius was letting a biker through.
But all this is just really anecdotal. The more Priuses on the road, the more they will behave just like every other shit-head driver on the road.
0gravity03.6.08 - 1:24 pm
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Good points on the hydrogen, I didn't have time to write a whole explanation, but I agree hydrogen conversion is a dead end plan. The most efficient thing is to have it go directly into the energy grid.
GarySe7en03.6.08 - 1:33 pm
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I am not a car! I am a human being! I...am...a man!
toweliesbong03.6.08 - 1:38 pm
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owning a brand or owning a certain type of vehicle does not make one or the other a "better" person or a "safer" driver or a more "aware" person...
you can't cover people with a blanket statement...
Are all SUV owners such and such?... No
Are all Prius owners such and such... No
I know some SUV owners who are very conscious drivers, and very bicycle friendly...but that doesn't make them environmentally friendly...
but just because one has an "evironmental friendly" vehicle certainly does not make one a good driver...
this is not a cogent argument...you can't lump one topic with the other
a bad driver is a bad driver no matter what they drive
and you should have said, "I'm not a car, but you're not a bicycle"...
adrian03.6.08 - 1:40 pm
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@ adrian:
I basically agree with that sentiment. The comment started because of my bad experience with a Pruis this morning, which wasn't the first time. The MR forum makes a great place to vent though.
About the not a car thing, one of my favorite moments rollerblading with the Friday Night Skate crew was having a cop shout at us with his intercom, 'You are not a car." Then he drove off.
GarySe7en03.6.08 - 1:56 pm
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've never driven one, but the Prius is a weird shape. it looks like it would be harder for the driver to see outward at normal angles. Maybe the Prius' geometry has something to do with it.
Or they are all jerks. I dont know, one of the two.
SKIDMARCUS
03.6.08 - 2:37 pm
You know what would be super weird to drive? A bus. Buses would be way hard to drive, mostly because I would be tempted to reenact the 90's classic: SPEED.
Alex Thompson03.6.08 - 2:24 pm
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this one time on Wolfpack (band camp) a guy in a car was harassing a small group of riders. when they caught up with the main group at Famina the dude in the car rolled up and called us all a bunch of hipser !@#$?s with v-neck and fidoras. that's when someone yelled back "you're the one driving a fuckin PRIUS!" laughter and to which he responded "Hey this is my mom's car!" more laughter
Roadblock03.6.08 - 2:27 pm
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My local bike shop guy, who is also my LABAC representative, was doing an early morning ride through Palos Verdes this last Saturday with some Serious Business roadies when a car came up on them, deliberately cut them off and slammed on his brakes. Then the driver followed them for a while, honking and yelling, got in front ot them around a blind curve and slammed on his brakes again. Then he peeled out to a local surf spot, stopped in front of the cyclists
again, opened his door in their path, got out, and started threatening people.
Guess what kind of environmentally conscious automobile he was driving?
PC03.6.08 - 2:51 pm
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"Guess what kind of environmentally conscious automobile he was driving?"
One that should have ended up with a bunch of dents?
turrican03.6.08 - 2:53 pm
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Or paint stripper Ă la Eric Hair.
Peachy Cyclist,
Which LBSes are worthy down there?
toweliesbong03.6.08 - 3:17 pm
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Adrian: as much as I wish I could be as rational and fair as you are... but I have to admit I've got some HUGE vehicular prejudices.
I am going to be hit and killed by a white pickup truck. I'm convinced. I've lost count how many times I've almost been run down by a white freaking pickup truck. Maybe that's because every other goddamn car in this city is a white pickup truck... but either way. I can safely say that I hate them, and the douchebags who drive them.
Also I've noticed that California is full of large cars in general. I see more SUVs and trucks on the road than I do cars. Visiting friends from Toronto always notice the exact same thing... (well that, and the crazy people on the streets are way louder and ill mannered. ?)
Anyways, Burbank is especially bad. 95% of the time I'm harassed by a driver it's here. I tend to ride my bike with my right hand steering, and my left hand flipping off.
canadienne03.6.08 - 3:17 pm
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Borfo, of course you can quote me...
And Canadienne....yeah it's dangerous out here...
as Sergeant Esterhaus used to say on Hill Street Blues after roll call...
"Hey, let's be careful out there"
adrian03.6.08 - 3:29 pm
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I notice that cars give me more space when I have long hair or wearing a white button-up shirt.
Look like a woman or a Mormon missionary and you'll be a bit safer.
cabhauler03.6.08 - 3:34 pm
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"On average, one American consumes as much energy as 2 Japanese, 6 Mexicans, 13 Chinese, 31 Indians, 128 Bangladeshis, 307 Tanzanians, or 370 Ethiopians."
Me -
This is one of the main reasons I've chosen to not to breed.
"How much of that global population is even capable of energy consumption?"
Me -
These figures are per capita. You would be hard pressed to find anyone that doesn't rely on any fossil fuel in some why. Even some villagers in the remote regions of Africa rely on goods in some form that were derived in part from fossil fuels.
@0gravity
Your membership is invaluable here. It's amazing how extensive and far reaching the hydrogen scam is. What they don't tell you is that hydrogen powered vehicles have been around for 200 years. If this thing was such a awesome platform for our energy needs, you would think they would have gotten it out of the lab stage by now wouldn't you? The only ones supporting the hydrogen economy is big oil and the government. I happen to think that this is just to keep the current power structure in place.
EVs aren't the solution either. If everyone in LA County had EVs, we have our freeways jammed packed with EVs.
For the record all my harassment on the road has been from SUVs and a couple of econ cars. Never had a bad experience with a Prius. The Prius drivers I know are responsible adults.
User103.6.08 - 3:35 pm
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I was at Crenshaw eastbound on Washington stopped at a red on my night commute home. There was a Prius to my right in the RIGHT TURN ONLY lane who unbeknownst to me decided he wanted to go straight on Washington rather than south on Crenshaw and when the light turned green he jetted out into the intersection as I started pedaling. As he gunned it to get past me the college-aged driver looked right at me and called me a motherfucker.
I just laughed that this guy was breaking the law but to him (for unknown reasons) I was the asshole.
Agent Orange03.6.08 - 4:38 pm
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yeah and a ridiculous one at that! :P
Joe Borfo03.6.08 - 4:48 pm
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So annoying, the illegal change your mind in the middle of the intersection from a right turn lane. I've had this happen to me several times, and likewise, they look at me like I'm in their way, when they aren't even supposed to be there at all.
I encountered something worse though. The closest I've come to being seriously hit by a car, I was going straight at 20+ through an intersection, when a dude from the LEFT turn lane peels a hard right, and floors it to make a RIGHT turn from the LEFT turn lane, across multiple lanes. I slammed my brakes and twisted the bike perpendicular to come to a T-stop, less then a foot from the car. He made eye contact briefly, then floored his car speeding away, obviously above the speed limit. I don't think my heart rate has ever been higher, I was in total shock.
GarySe7en03.6.08 - 5:08 pm
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Late last week, I was riding west on sunset, having just passed the fork to Hollywood when some shithead in a black luxury sedan got into my lane behind me (the parking lane, since it wasn't rush hour) and leaned on his horn for about 20 seconds before moving halfway into the next lane and passing me as physically close to me as he possibly could, just as I was swerving around yet another bloody great pothole in the middle of the 'bike lane.' My elbow just barely contacted his mirror, but the fucker had pissed me off, so I chased him down long enough to get his plate (5XTX237) and then called in a hit and run on his ass. I explained the exact circumstances and lack of physical damage to the cops, but they promised he'd get an earful from a detective. I hope it happened.
The LAPD officers who responded, incidentally, were super polite and helpful, and repeatedly disavowed the notion that I was wasting their time.
I'm actually sort of thankful I wasn't able to catch entirely up to him, as I'm not sure I would have been able to restrain myself from doing some significant damage to the bodywork of his car.
ideasculptor03.6.08 - 5:17 pm
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when drivers come up like that behind me while I'm in my legal lane and start honking or doing inane things...I always politely wave them by...regardless if there's room for them to do so or not...
the simple acknowledgment that I know that they are there, and I'm trying to wave them to go past me, befuddles them...and they back off
of course, you can always try solvents, but that's some risky business if you ask me...the last thing you want to do is cause someone to snap, and actually mow down some cyclists who were not involved in your confrontation....
that's my opinion as a pacifist
adrian03.6.08 - 5:35 pm
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U-lock Justice.
Don't be afraid to hit em, they'll never fuck with cyclists again without thinking of....."that one time."
kyber03.6.08 - 5:44 pm
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Everybody in their irrelevant rush to get nowhere fast.
I feel bothered by these same pricks all the time.
But, instead of chase after them, I like to think about how much fun I could have with them when I'm rolling up on them in an 40ton, Detroit-powered, 550HP, 1000 FT-LB torque, Diesel-sucking food-hauler!!!
Just rest-assured that there's a food-chain out there on the road.
And four-wheelers are usually the more, abundant species for the munching.
bentstrider03.6.08 - 6:09 pm
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Prius drivers are quickly becoming as bad as Hummer drivers.
A couple months ago I reamed a guy in a Prius after he tossed his cigarette butt out the window. Really? WTF?
Then just a couple weeks ago, I was on my bike behind a couple of cars waiting to make a left when I started to go, a car that I didn't know was behind me started laying on the horn.
Turned around and saw a dude in a Prius. When we got to the next stoplight at the same time, I gave him a pleasant reminder that a) his car is silent a lot of the time and b) just because I'm better than him for being on a bike instead of a car doesn't mean it's OK for him to take his jealous rage out on me.
chunk03.6.08 - 6:19 pm
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maybe its cause they're quieter than a dead kitten
priuses, the bane of blind people everywhere
hartwick, youre a pussy03.7.08 - 12:58 pm
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Maybe it's because we threaten their self-righteousness. Not that we're self-righteous -- hoo no, of course not. But they have less of a reason to be, if we're all not using any gas at all and shit.
Once I saw a Prius with the "r" pried off. Pius. Greener-than-thou.
katiepoche03.7.08 - 4:02 pm
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that Pius-ness does NOT make me "green" with envy...
adrian03.8.08 - 10:15 am
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Last night at the Windward circle in Venice during SMCM the only overly aggressive honker slash engine-revver was a Prius driver. I've never seen somebody so frustrated with cyclists before (maybe i have, but for the purpose of this thread i'm going to say that i haven't). i think it may have just come down to the fact that this particular driver knew they looked like a total douche bag in an ugly Minority Report looking car engulfed in a sea of happy cyclists.
junkboat03.8.08 - 10:37 am
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if the la bike scene ever makes a dvd ala mash, can we please do a part reenacting the movie DUEL with bikes and a prius instead of that red car and a semi?
ruinedbyidiots03.8.08 - 10:42 am
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Prius drivers have lost their sense of joy. No joy! Where is the joy?
And now I'm going to misquote Emma Goldman again, if that's quite alright: "If I can't dance to it, I don't want your revolution." There's debate as to whether she ever even said that, but fuckit.
Joy joyo Uojoyonoyojoyjoyojoyj.
Hybrids won't take off until they learn to design them for people who love cars, the shapes of cars, the speed of cars, the fun in cars, not design them for the joyless. Hybrids all look like tennis shoes to me. Put some damned thought into it, hybrid car designers! Jesus.
Or, get a bike.
katiepoche03.8.08 - 12:54 pm
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@rbi.
-You handle the Prius vs. Peugeot, and I'll handle the "red-car vs. semi" version.
I'm still amazed at how oblivious some drivers act around bigrigs.
They all know they could get around them quicker, yet want to hang around them like sucker-fish on a Whale-Shark.
The parasite-effect I tell you.
bentstrider03.8.08 - 5:25 pm
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Damn I thought I was the only one... Some Prius drivers are really rude but you can't hate on all of them, just like BMW and Mercedes drivers. Last time I got hit (felony hit and run) it was a New Beetle, thank God for plastic bumpers!
Toyota Prius: The Silent Killer...
Velocipede03.8.08 - 9:10 pm
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without joy joy joy....
- the Duke Spirit
adrian03.9.08 - 9:57 pm
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Prius sighting of the day.
Today at Fast and Easy I saw a Prius parked at the handicap space and no they had no handicap tags.
The funny(sad?) thing is that Fast and Easy does have parking spots up front reserved for hybrid/alternative fuel vehicles but no they parked in the handicapped space.
marino03.9.08 - 10:31 pm
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