Local Cyclist Killed
Thread started by
Alex Thompson at 03.9.08 - 2:00 am
I changed the title on this thread since it seems like it isn't getting through Ridazz thick skulls.
An LA Cyclist, Harvey Hetland, was killed descending La Tuna in the Valley, on WEDNESDAY. The rider lost control because he was narrowly passed on the left by a motorist, possibly hit.
Are Prius Paradoxes, Ridgeway Parties, and Aspiring Rider threads so much more important that no one wants to express their condolences, anger, or plan a memorial ride?
the story - quoted from the forwarded message:
Sadly -
Harvey Hetland, loyal LAWheelmen member, excellent cyclist, Grand Tour rider, RAGBRAI rider, and friend of many has lost his life on a bike ride on Wednesday, 03/05/08 …
He and his companion, Christie Edinger, were on their way home after riding up to Montrose with the Griffith Park group … They rode up to La Tuna - and on the way down, on a curve with Christie behind him, Harvey was in the lane and was passed on his right by an automobile … He was not hit by the car - but he lost control of his bike and he “went down” … The hospital personnel said “he didn’t make it” …..
So sudden - and so sad …
His church, Westminster Presbyterian, is planning for a memorial service for Harvey next week (626 794 7141) …
The La Tuna Canyon homeowners group (www.latunacanyon.com) would like support for their efforts to make La Tuna safer with slower speeds and a marked bicycle lane. Your help would be appreciated by Harvey and all of his bicycling friends.
Harvey will be missed.
Stay safe …..
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I don't understand the repost. But I was affected by this news. Sometimes we don't know what to say about something sad like this happens. I hope we all can use this to help us become more aware of bicycle safety, and the importance of bringing bicycle awareness to all drivers. I hope the memory of Harvey's accomplishments and legacy stays alive. He deserves a ride in honor of him, let's do it.
Joe Borfo03.9.08 - 2:08 am
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He was passed on the RIGHT! On the right. I messed that part up.
On the right.
Alex Thompson03.9.08 - 2:09 am
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So if the car passed on the right, then that means the care would have to drive onto the shoulder to pass, which is illegal. Did the driver not stop after the accident? Was the driver held accountable for his/her action? Was it a hit and run?
Joe Borfo03.9.08 - 2:22 am
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Good questions. There aren't any answers yet. My hunch is the driver didn't notice, or drove away.
Alex Thompson03.9.08 - 2:26 am
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Alex, if you are looking to put on a ride for Mr. Hetland, I'm willing to help you. I'm sure others are too. I'm still not sure why you had to make another thread when others had been making comments...
Joe Borfo03.9.08 - 2:32 am
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Alex --
You're right. It's ridiculous that people (me, I, myself, ME) feel it's more relevant to post about shit like Priuses than about a good man down. Forever. But Borfo nailed it. It's hard to express such depth of emotion on a forum -- too earnest? too real? -- and just because we don't doesn't mean we aren't profoundly touched. Sickened. So:
I was at a complete loss for words when I heard a human being on a bike was passed on the right by a car. Who the fuck would do something like that? Who the FUCK would DARE? And then NOT STOP?? It's outrageous and ridiculous and sickening and it makes me want to secede from the human race. It makes me want to punch something. Or someone. That guy/gal in the car, preferably. Over and over and over again. And I'm not prone to physical violence. (Just verbal.)
My guess is there will be a really freaking good turnout at the memorial ride. Because people were as sickened as I was when they heard the news, and they want to do something to express that when words fail. Because sometimes words fail. Badly. But actions ... actions, we're good at. We can do actions.
End rant, begin rocking in corner with blanket over head.
katiepoche03.9.08 - 2:41 am
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T REX has big emotions small brains. Like Katie said, it is hard to express. But then just say something like
I'm sorry
This makes me sad
This makes me mad
I will go to any memorial ride, anytime, day or night
T REX got passed on the right by a Prius driver when he was coming down Laurel Canyon Road. This is no lie. Scared the shit out of T REX.
T REX03.9.08 - 2:49 am
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I'm sorry.
This makes me sad.
This makes me mad.
I will go to any memorial ride, anytime, day or night.
katiepoche03.9.08 - 2:53 am
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It's always sad and tragic when a rider goes down. I feel for the people they leave behind. I don't think it's because people don't care that not everyone posted something, though. Some people are at a loss for words. Other want to avoid thinking about the risks that riding entails and just concentrate on the positive aspects of cycling. After all, it's hard enough to hear about how dangerous it is from your nonriding friends.
I've been passed on the right too and it's a scary thing because you think, "Wow, this person is allowed to drive?"
cabhauler03.9.08 - 2:54 am
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I'm assuming Harvey's own bike club will be throwing a memorial ride for him, no? If so, we could show and support. If not, then we should throw our own during the day, but soon. (I go sleep now.)
Joe Borfo03.9.08 - 3:00 am
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odd how the headline in the pasadena star news states "Longtime PCC professor Hetland dies" while another tragic story states "Funeral services set for woman killed in crash".
he didn't just "die" because he was riding his bicycle. he was killed by a hit and run driver. not just semantics, but it denies the seriousness of the crime and lessens the impact for the average reader.
so, Alex Thompson, even though to you "it seems like it isn't getting through Ridazz thick skulls", i don't post often and i don't have a blog. the thought of yet another rider being killed simply because he was riding his bicycle gives pause. i don't feel compelled to share my sadness and anger with you or anyone else i don't know.
not all emotions and opinions require a public forum in order to be deemed appropriate and relevant.
VixObs03.9.08 - 8:32 am
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I just checked the L.A. Wheelmen site, and found nothing about this tragic murder of their brother. I think the best thing we could do is join a memorial ride that the wheelmen do, but if that is not happening, do our own and invite the wheelmen and anybody else to join us.
Creative Thing03.9.08 - 9:21 am
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Is there any way we can make sure his three cats and dove will go to a proper new owner? Did he have any family?
Joe Borfo03.9.08 - 10:56 am
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I don't understand the repost either Alex.
The local paper's headline makes it seem like he died peacefully in his sleep or something. Really does nothing to show what really happened. I still am hoping to see more details about this accident.
Harvey's site showed alot about what he was all about. The story about the
dove he nursed to health and cared for was most touching. Well worth reading about.
I would like to see about putting up a
ghost bike where he had his accident. Put one up and make sure it stays there. If it gets ripped out, then put another one there. Maybe people driving will give riders a second thought about being more careful.
User103.9.08 - 11:56 am
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I understand it now. Let's not give Alex a hard time. He's the one who brought this to our attention. Thank you Alex.
Joe Borfo03.9.08 - 12:00 pm
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Katie O'Shea contacted the Wheelmen, as did I, as did Stephen Box. I agree that we should jump on a ride the Wheelmen organize. The person who replied to me said they will bring it up at their next meeting . . . which may be a ways off.
Borfo and I discussed it. If we're going to visit the crash site it has to be daytime, since it's already dangerous enough. This means it should be a Saturday or Sunday afternoon most likely to make it so people can get out. Next Sunday?
@VixObs, et al. I reposted because the thread was descending to the lost threads of Ridazz. I appended "Local" so people would realize this was one of LA's own. So many MRidazz are apt and prolific in expressing their opinions. If you're at a loss for words, can you take a moment to express the simple message: "I care, I'm sorry"? And let people know if you would attend a memorial ride. Is that inappropriate VixObs? If you feel that it is, I apologize.
Alex Thompson03.9.08 - 12:37 pm
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Next Sunday works for me. I would like to get a ghost bike up there at this time too. If everyone is cool with that.
User103.9.08 - 1:03 pm
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How do ghost bikes work? Do you use the bike that was in the accident?
katiepoche03.9.08 - 1:32 pm
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Nah, just paint a bike which is similar all white = everything - the tires, the spokes, etc. Liz & Shay of CICLE did a beautiful job for Ilia Pankin's memorial:
Alex Thompson03.9.08 - 1:35 pm
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No, I've seen them, in person and written up (but thanks). I just didn't know if you were supposed to use the accident bike or not. Some seem to be in good shape, some not so good.
GOOD Magazine did a two-page spread on ghost bikes around the world back in January. Meant to post it back then but never did.
http://www.goodmagazine.com/section/Look/ghost_rider
katiepoche03.9.08 - 1:48 pm
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User1,
When do you plan to do it? How can we help?
Joe Borfo03.9.08 - 2:07 pm
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GhostBike.org lists some good guidelines to follow, http://www.ghostbike.org/visitor/howto We can talk to Joseph at the Oven to see about a donor bike. If anyone has supplies they would like to donate, they can speak up. We'll buy the other stuff we need. I was going to use a chain and a lock, but the page above mention, "Obtain devices to lock bikes with. Lengths of metal cable with couplers is a fairly affordable way to lock the bikes." Not sure what cable couplers they are talking about, but I'll research that. We should be able to knock this project out in a day, so let's do it some time this week, possibly at the Oven. I'll call Joseph on this today.
What else?
User103.9.08 - 2:48 pm
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White spraypaint.
Plexiglass to make the stencil.
Paint for the stencil -- what color? LA-colored. Rust orange. Toothpaste green. Straight-up, unadulterated cyan. (One of these, not all of these.)
Something to stencil on -- the site recommends wood.
A way to bolt the stencilled sign to the bike -- nuts, bolts, washers ... ?
Plastic flowers. Lots of them.
Anything else?
katiepoche03.9.08 - 4:07 pm
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I'm sorry
This makes me sad
This makes me mad
I will go to any memorial ride, anytime, day or night
Alex, thank you for arguing the sense out of the dark corners of my brain.
I am now crying. And I feel like I'll be crying a lot more again. I feel like survival has forced me to ignore my sensitivity because when I don't, I just end up being overwhelmed by all the unnecessary pain we're inflicting on ourselves and the world. I feel like ridazz are some of the only people who can truly help alleviate some of this. And I get more confident every day.
I will help with the memorial ride if you need me, and I'll certainly be there, with as many people as I can spread the word to.
vspangle03.9.08 - 7:36 pm
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Judging from some replies, it's obvious some of you have never been on La Tuna Canyon. The road is actually a one-way street which twists and turns down the mountain.
I've never ridden it on a bicycle, but I've done it on a motorcycle a few times. It's a VERY steep, fast, hairy road with many hairpin turns and blind curves.
It's a shame that a cyclist was killed, but even more sad when you consider the conditions of the road. For those of you who were shocked and offended that the cyclsit was passed on the right, let me tell you, passing someone on either side of that road isn't really safe. There isn't even a double-yellow. There are no lane markers at all.
MikeyWalsh03.9.08 - 8:00 pm
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OK I just got done talking to Joseph and he has a donor bike for us. The shop time we can use to get this together will be Wednesday 7-10pm. We can use the time before that to get the bike supplies and do some of the stuff like the name plate. The howto page from ghostbike.org can be used as an outline for the stuff we need. Should be able to get it all together Wednesday. If not, we have some time to get it together.
Following list is gathered from
http://www.ghostbike.org/
* Gather a team.
* Identify locations where cyclists have been killed. Start a log of the time, place, person and other details.
* Obtain old bicycles, paint entire bike white.
*Create signs to let people know why the bike is there. Pieces of plywood make good signage and creating a stencil so you can spray the info on makes it easier to create many signs. Also keep in mind how you are going to attach the sign to the bike.
* Obtain devices to lock bikes with. Lengths of metal cable with couplers is a fairly affordable way to lock the bikes.
* Identify exact bike placement location. Keep in mind that memorials may not be technically legal, and that local authorities often overlook them if they are not presenting a problem since this kind of enforcement is usually complaint-driven. Try not to block things and keep in mind where the fire hydrants are located.
* Place bikes, preferably using bikes w/trailers and the cover of darkness.
* Take photo.
* Contact Ghostbike.org to setup a project for you.
* Enter your bikes in Ghostbike.org
PLEASE SPEAK UP TO WHAT YOU CAN BRING.
We'll check it off on the list.
User103.9.08 - 8:37 pm
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Borfo wrote:
Is there any way we can make sure his three cats and dove will go to a proper new owner? Did he have any family?
The newspaper obit in the link didn't say anything about "survived by." The forwarded message in Thompson's original post mentions a "companion" but doesn't make it clear whether she was his companion on the ride or in life.
Unless I read the story on Hetland's website wrong, Glory the mourning dove is fending for herself now. The cats will need someone to take care of them, obviously.
PC03.9.08 - 8:47 pm
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It's gonna be tough to get me anywhere at 7 pm on Wednesday. I'm still at work at that hour ... in El Segundo. But I can make the sign from home and we can attach it later in the week. (Things tend to ease up at work later in the week, so the later it is in the week, the earlier I can sneak out.) Yeah?
Alan, if you want to see what it'll look like before I make it, send me your email and I'll send you a sketch.
katiepoche03.9.08 - 10:36 pm
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I just got this news from an LA Wheelman Club member.
"His church, Westminster Presbyterian, is planning for a memorial service for Harvey on Thursday 3/13 at 11:am in Pasadena - 1757 N Lake (at York) - 626 794 7141 ...
The La Tuna Canyon homeowners group (www.latunacanyon.com) would like support for their efforts to make La Tuna safer with slower speeds and a marked bicycle lane. Your help would be appreciated by Harvey and all of his bicycling friends.
LA Wheelmen will be discussing a memorial ride at our next meeting.
There is a security video of the incident which shows a white Jeep Cherokee passing Harvey on the right just before he lost control, the police have the video.
I have forwarded your message to members who might know who has his cats."
Joe Borfo03.9.08 - 11:21 pm
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This is definitely a downer in a downed world we already have to deal with.
In the back of my head, I know what kind of risk I take whenever I deal with constant environment of "1bike vs.too-many-cars".
To keep my head, I loop the song, "take my breathe away", in my head as I crank my way through the wasteland known as the High-Desert.
A ghost-bike with permanent, illumination would also serve well.
With an accompanying web-address to a "fallen-riders" page.
bentstrider03.9.08 - 11:37 pm
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Katie/Alan/et al,
The LA Wheelmen sound like they're definitely going to organize a ride. Right now it doesn't look like it will be this coming weekend, but some later date. So, tentatively, it would seem you can slow down the process on the Ghost Bike if your plan was to place it during a memorial ride. BTW, should someone contact the church and/or family to ask for their blessing and guidance of the bike project? They may have a specific request.
Alex Thompson03.10.08 - 12:19 am
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Yeah, I got a note from a Wheelman that said same, though I'll go ahead and start in on the sign this week anyway. Ride the momentum.
katiepoche03.10.08 - 12:38 am
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Yeah I'll probably go to the Oven and see what's up with the donor anyways. Katie, you can email me at allanalessio at yahoo dot con. I'll contact someone at the church and run by them our idea for a memorial. If we can work a bird feeder in the frame, I think that would be a nice touch that Harvey would have liked.
Anyone know when the Wheelmen will be having their meeting?
User103.10.08 - 1:08 am
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Alan, the e-mail didn't say when their next meeting is, but the LA Wheelmen's website mentions business meetings are on the third Wednesday of the month. That puts it on the 19th this month, so not this Wednesday but next.
katiepoche03.10.08 - 6:29 pm
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Shoot, I didn't read very carefully. Here's what they post on their site:
A.) Their meetings are on the third Wednesday OR the third Thursday of the month. At 7 or 7:30.
B.) This month, it's on Thursday, March 20, 7:30 p.m. Meeting night directions: call 310‑391‑3978.
lawheelmen.org is their site, and the meeting information is listed in the "current ride schedule" section.
Forgive the double post. My copy-paste fingers are on a hairtrigger this afternoon.
katiepoche03.10.08 - 6:37 pm
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@MikeyWalsh "The road is actually a one-way street which twists and turns down the mountain. "
La Tuna Canyon is not a one-way street. It's two-way, and is two lane per side at the top and bottom of the steep hill portion.
I'm wondering about the 'car passing on the right' - I doubt the car passed him by going up on the shoulder; there's not much in the way of drivable shoulder on the downhill (there is a stretch with considerable asphalt to the right on the way up).
I don't know where the accident happened (I'll look for flowers on my way home today) but I'd venture to guess that the cyclists may have ended up in the left lane near the bottom, where it splits back to two lanes per side; perhaps the car was riding their asses during the single-lane portion and then accelerated (as jackasses do to other cars as well) past them where it splits back to two lanes.
Regardless - this sucks, and my condolences to everyone involved.
turrican03.10.08 - 6:42 pm
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@MikeyWalsh
I think you might be confusing La Tuna Cyn in the Verdugos with Tuna Cyn in the Malibu area. La Tuna Cyn in the Verdugos is a fast twisty 2 and 4 lane road that is full of commuters during rush hour, and is full of import racers and motorcycles at night. It's fast but not that steep.
When I lived in La Canada I saw a couple of head on collisions over the last 5 years.
toweliesbong03.10.08 - 6:42 pm
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toweliesbong said:
"I think you might be confusing La Tuna Cyn in the Verdugos with Tuna Cyn in the Malibu area. La Tuna Cyn in the Verdugos is a fast twisty 2 and 4 lane road that is full of commuters during rush hour, and is full of import racers and motorcycles at night. It's fast but not that steep."
Ohhhhhhhhh. Sorry. My bad. Yeah, you're right. I mixed them up. I didn't know about the correct road.
Oops. Everone can nevermind my earlier post.
MikeyWalsh03.10.08 - 7:54 pm
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Is anyone stepping up to help out on this or is it just Katie and I?
User103.11.08 - 11:37 am
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User1,
I can't help with the Ghost Bike, but
I will help organize satellites and so forth when a ride is scheduled. I've been talking to the Wheelmen trying to get them to pick up their leaden feet on this. So I'll be there on that part. Y'all should consider approaching CICLE about their experience with making Ilia Pankin's Ghost Bike.
Alex Thompson03.11.08 - 12:08 pm
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I can help Thurs night and I can also help place the ghost bike since I'm relatively nearby. I also have a garage and a minimal amount of tools.
toweliesbong03.11.08 - 12:17 pm
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If the Wheelmen are still having the fargo st maybe you can show your support there, just a thought,
dannyzuko03.11.08 - 12:35 pm
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Danny's got a point. The Wheel(persons) are attending this.
Joe Borfo03.11.08 - 1:02 pm
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This just in from a Wheelmen Member:
"The initial information we received (from a viewer of surveillance video) was, most likely incorrect ...
We were told that a car passed Harvey on his right, causing him to lose control, but it did not hit him ...
Then the Pasadena Star News said that he was hit by a car ...
We were then informed (by another viewer of the video) that the car first passed Christie and then Harvey, each on their left ...(on La Tuna Canyon Road) ....
Harvey then seemed to lose control of the bike on the downhill curve ...
We may never know the exact cause of the high-speed (maybe 25-30 mph) wobble and the subsequent fall ..... but he died quickly ... tragically ...
Services for Harvey Hetland will be held on Thursday at the Westminster Presbyterian Church at 11:am in Pasadena - 1757 N Lake (at New York) .....
Harvey was a wonderful friend - to many - and he will be sorely missed ........
The Los Angeles Wheelmen will, most likely, have a "Harvey Hetland" special ride this spring."
Joe Borfo03.11.08 - 5:30 pm
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Interesting.. where did the video come from - another rider, or..?
turrican03.11.08 - 5:38 pm
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supposedly a home surveillance camera...
I guess so...
Joe Borfo03.11.08 - 6:04 pm
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toweliesbong -
"I can help Thurs night and I can also help place the ghost bike since I'm relatively nearby."
Me -
Toweliesbong, one thing we could really use is for someone to research the spot where Harvey went down. The location needs to be scouted for a good spot to put the bike up at. Since you know the area and you're close to it, you want to do that?
User103.12.08 - 1:05 am
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Absolutely. I'll head up there in the morning. Does anyone have an idea of which section he was in when he went down? I've read the Ghost Bike suggestions so will be looking for a good, visible spot where his Ghost Bike can be locked up without interfering with public safety/utilities/etc.
toweliesbong03.12.08 - 1:11 am
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As far as tracking down the location. I think the easiest way to do that would be to contact someone at LAWheelmen or post up there. Let them know what we're doing and they'll be happy to help. That's my 2¢ anyways.
User103.12.08 - 1:23 am
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Why do the Wheelmen still not have anything on their site? I think I'll head up La Tuna and possibly over to the Memorial.
toweliesbong03.12.08 - 1:33 am
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I checked out La Tuna. There are already three older roadside memorials from car accidents, I believe. I don't think any of them are for Harvey.
There are many good spots for his Ghost Bike. Up towards the top there are no homes which means no distractions. The bike would really stand out as motorists descended the canyon. There is also lots of guard rail, no parking signs, and speed limit signs to lock the bike to.
toweliesbong03.12.08 - 12:46 pm
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towlies,
I think the Wheelmen are a little bit old school in their operation, and that's probably why they're taking a long time to set up a ride, and they don't have anything on their website.
Good scout work man.
Alex Thompson03.12.08 - 1:14 pm
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Ok, I just received an email from a wheelman and Harvey crashed right around
here.
As you're descending La Tuna these are the first houses.
How about we rename La Tuna the Harvey Hetland Hwy?
toweliesbong03.12.08 - 6:38 pm
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I'm free Thursday night for RAM, if you need me.
Joe Borfo03.12.08 - 9:11 pm
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What do you think guise? Do we have a bike lined up?
toweliesbong03.12.08 - 10:04 pm
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Hey toweliesbong and others,
We have a bike. I just got back from the Oven and brought the bike home to work on it. It's my first fixie!!! Dude I'm hooked! I'll have it cleaned and painted tomorrow if my day goes as planned. We really could use someone to get the locking part of the project handled. Maybe after it's painted we can finish it somewhere?
User103.12.08 - 11:29 pm
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I've got access to aircraft cable, nico-press sleeves, and a nico-press tool. We can thread the cable through all the bits and pieces, so nothing grows legs.
Not as strong as a U-lock, but should keep the delinquents at bay. And it'll be free. I just need some lead-time to get it from Orange County.
Steeve03.13.08 - 2:09 am
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I'm about 8 miles from the top of La Tuna, 3 miles from the North Hollywood station. I can host final prep or more.
toweliesbong03.13.08 - 10:17 am
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Steeve,
Thanks for doing the cable, that's awesome. I'm in LB if you want to bring it there. email me if you need to, allanalessio at yahoo dot con
toweliesbong,
We may end up doing the final prep work there. We'll know as this evolves.
Borfo,
I have the paint, I think. I have to go look. I thought I was going to be working on this today, but my day went longer than planned. If I don't have the paint, it would be great to have some primer and paint.
User103.13.08 - 5:28 pm
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Oh yeah, Katie is working on the sign.
Katie, I'll email you tonite.
User103.13.08 - 5:30 pm
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@User1
I'm a passing acquaintance of Katie's, so if I can't make the actual placing of the Bike, I can hand off the supplies and tools to Katie.
Steeve03.13.08 - 6:16 pm
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hey y'all workin on this memorial.
i just wanted to say that I'm very moved and impressed by your diligence and generosity.
i wish i was a little more technologically inclined that I could so fastidiously accomplish these movements of community, but alas, my attention is pf the erratic and wandering sort.
Anyway, thank you.
I look forward to your efforts for Harvey and to help you in admirable actions of the future.
vspangle03.14.08 - 12:05 am
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Darlin', aren't you the nicest thang.
I think you can help us out. Bring music for when we paint/bolt on the sign. Regale us with stories from your childhood (childhood is mostly funny and always sad). Or, buy us beer. Any and all (beers) will be accepted with open arms.
Your pal,
Katie
katiepoche03.14.08 - 12:44 am
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What DannyZuko said...........>
Fargo Street is this Sunday 3/16/08. I was going there anyways...It would definitely be a great show of support from the M.R. community.
for those too lazy to click over there------>
"Once a year cyclists gather from all over to match their legs and skill against Fargo Street Hill, reputably the steepest hill in Los Angeles. It's only a couple of blocks long, but at over 30% grade, it's quite a feat if you can climb it. Many just want to see if they can make it up the hill at all. Amazingly, others vie to see how many times they can make it up the hill in one day. The record is now 92. Many will try the hill. Many won’t make it. Come out to cheer them on and maybe give the hill a try yourself. It’s a thrill either way." --- LA Wheelmen website
The climb starts at the corner of Fargo St and Allesandro St, in Echo Park 90027. LA Wheelmen chapters sponser rides from Arcadia and BH to EXP, but you can just show up at the base of the hill 'round 10AM to test your mad fixie hill climbin' skillz!
barleye03.14.08 - 9:35 am
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I've got plenty of tools and stuff to help mount the sign and stuff. I also live close by to La Tuna Canyon so when you guys go to install the ghost bike I can help . Just let me know what I need to bring. I also have cable cutters and crimpers too .
What all still needs to be done for this ghost bike ?? When do we plan to put it up ??
Freeekeone03.14.08 - 2:49 pm
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I think this memorial ride will be resolved after anyone that is going to the hill ride finds out from LAWheelmen. What we still need is a good lock to lock this thing up with. I'm not sure what's there to lock up to. One way to possibly get the lock back is to use a U lock and lock it to a post. Then use this lock to lock the cable to. If city workers come by to remove this bike, they may just leave the U lock alone.
We need for people that want to decorate the bike to start getting together arificial flowers.
I'm shooting to have this bike cleaned and painted today.
User103.14.08 - 3:50 pm
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The most visible spots would mean locking it to the guard rail (but that would mean cables only) that runs along the outside of the curves. There are also many arrow and speed limit signs, too. I'm going to the hardware store tonight, should I pickup a bird feeder?
toweliesbong03.14.08 - 4:15 pm
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depending on the site, I dont know if this could work but if there is room for a post we can dig a hole and cement the post in and weld the bike to the post, I have a post and two bags of cement, incase they are needed, the post is 6 foot long and 6 inches wide.
dannyzuko03.14.08 - 4:31 pm
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It would be nice to lock this to a post. I'm not sure about putting a post there. We should be able to find a post to use. If there isn't one at the spot of the accident, then we'll just go up the road to the first post that's suitable.
I can't use the frame for the bird feeder toweliesbong, so if want to pick up a feeder, that would be awesome. You can usually find bird seed at those dollar stores too.
User103.14.08 - 4:55 pm
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I live very close by and will be there to help. Please post the final date, time, and place so everyone interested can participate. Knowing the road, we need people to help slow down car traffic so we don't get hurt.
yoyoAOyoyo03.14.08 - 5:22 pm
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@katie,
I'll be there, with the highest quality beer I can afford, at least songs to sing you, and the most entertaining stories of my childhood I can muster. I'd love to hear some of yours, too!
vspangle03.14.08 - 10:21 pm
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barleye:
At the Fargo Street Hill Climb, could you ask if they have any special requests for the sign? I was thinking I would make a general one ... maybe something that could be used again for other downed riders (it makes me sick to think about that). But maybe I can make it so that it can be customized. Have a template and then veer from it. Their input would be great.
vspangle:
CHEEP BEER. Cheap.
katiepoche03.15.08 - 12:07 pm
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So, at the last memorial like this they had black sharpies and people signed the bike . . . I forgot that detail.
Alex Thompson03.15.08 - 12:17 pm
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What if the sign were a very shallow box (shallow in the front-to-back dimension, the z-axis)? The front of the box, facing the street, would have the words cut out. ("Cyclist killed here" with the date seems to be the standard format, but maybe it should be something else.) The top of the box has a slot, and everyone's invited to drop in notes to or about Harvey.
The LA Wheelmen knew Harvey very well, and so their messages would be very personal. Some of us (like myself) are only learning about him after his death. The volume of messages visible through the letters cut out of the box, though, would get across the idea that his death affected many people.
What do you think? Yes? No? Douchey? Be honest. I can take it. If it helps, I'll comp something up to show you what the hell I'm talking about.
katiepoche03.15.08 - 4:17 pm
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I like the idea of having a note box. I'm not sure about the message on the outside. We can come up with something once we know how big sign is or if you have a pic as an example.
User103.15.08 - 4:39 pm
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How about we paing an old messenger bag white and hang it on the bike and leave your mssg in the bag?
dannyzuko03.17.08 - 2:32 pm
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Did anyone learn over the weekend about a memorial ride that the LAWheelmen will be putting on?
User103.17.08 - 8:19 pm
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They don't have their meeting until Thursday. And I'm pretty sure "we" are not going to hear about it...
Joe Borfo03.17.08 - 8:21 pm
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I thought they had a hill climbing event this past weekend? They don't talk about stuff like a memorializing one of their own during events????
User103.17.08 - 8:29 pm
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You aren't serious are you?
User103.17.08 - 8:59 pm
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dannyzuko, I don't think Harvey was a messenger bag type rider. Seems to me like he was in it for the athletic benefits. (Though someone who knew him better can correct me, and please do.) Something for the notes that doesn't reference a particular kind of cyclist makes more sense to me.
I like the idea of a messenger bag -- just not for him.
katiepoche03.17.08 - 9:00 pm
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I hope that we would talk about a downed rider. But I don't want to find out.
katiepoche03.17.08 - 9:02 pm
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we all grieve in our own way... it would be difficult for me to hold it together and ride a bike in a memorial ride even for a person i never knew... but .. i do care.. i am sorry
I think many of us will ride even if we are silent on the board (especially someone like me who rarely goes on-line). Not sure if any friends/family will be reading this but my condolences to you all.
Esther
Kakihara03.17.08 - 9:24 pm
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We will hear about it. If nothing else Stephen Box has open communication with the Wheelmen, as does one contact of mine to remain unnamed.
Borfo, of course we would. We have before. Unfortunately we probably will again.
Alex Thompson03.17.08 - 11:55 pm
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The bikes paint job is finished.
YEAH!!!
User103.18.08 - 4:52 pm
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Rad, Allan.
I gotta get all my thinking out of my head and onto pixels to show everyone. I'll get out of here at a reasonable hour tonight so I can work on it (it's been stupid since Thursday). But I think it's going to be good.
Appropriate to Harvey.
In keeping with Ghost Bike tradition.
Well-made without being fancy or precious.
These are my goals.
katiepoche03.18.08 - 5:54 pm
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How we doing on this?
I've pretty much given up on anyone getting anything together with the LAWheelmen. Does anyone else have more faith than I do?
I was thinking maybe this Sunday would be a good day to get this setup there at the site. Is there anything we still need to do?
The bike is about 12 miles away from the location.
User104.7.08 - 11:19 pm
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Heya --
I think we'd want our gang to lead a memorial ride if one of us fell. I think we should let them take the lead on the ride. Even if it's not as speedy as we'd like.
Attached is the version of the sign that I'd talked about. A shallow box with the words "Cyclist Killed Here" and the date cut out of the front. Slot at the top for people to slide in their notes. To refresh memories, the front of the box is cut out so you can see how many people his death affected, even if we didn't know him.
I figured the sign would hang from the top tube, maybe attached with the hardware used to attach brake levers to handlebars. (I don't know what those are called.)
katiepoche04.8.08 - 12:05 am
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In comping this up, though, I got to thinking about visibility from the street. If part of the idea of a ghost bike is to have it be a statement to motorists to be careful, it's going to need to be brighter than this. Which means the box idea might not work out -- the box would make the letters (which are actually holes) darker because of shadows.
So here's what it would look like if it were just a flat sign, white lettering on blue. Because the letters are no longer cut into the wood, we aren't limited to stencil lettering, so I can take another look at that, too.
katiepoche04.8.08 - 12:09 am
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They never got back to me after their meeting. I'll contact them . . . it just fell through the cracks with all the shit lately. I heard from someone on their side that they were talking about the logistics of a ride and the memorial that y'all were working on.
Alex Thompson04.8.08 - 12:10 am
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To recap:
The first image is a comp showing a three-dimensional box. It's intended to house notes from close friends, acquaintances, and total strangers -- everyone who was affected by Harvey Hetland's death.
The second image is a comp showing what the sign would look like if it were two-d. Rather than a container, the letters are legible from the road. A warning to motorists that lives can be lost with careless driving.
The two different designs have different intents. The first is more personal, the second more political. Let me know what you think. It will take less than five weeks for the next round. This is a promise.
katiepoche04.8.08 - 12:15 am
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Either seems good to me. I trust Katie's judgment. If the note box design (open) is used are you going to rain proof it at all . . . or is it more symbolic?
Alex Thompson04.8.08 - 12:22 am
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I just don't think their all that stoked about riding with us. It's not only Alex but it seems that Stephen Box also is getting the cold shoulder. Look how long we been waiting for an answer from them. I think I can take a hint. Let's just do this ourselves.
If I'm wrong, feel free to set the record straight.
User104.8.08 - 12:24 am
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I got a couple of emails from them. On the one hand I didn't specifically ask them about riding with us to place the ghost bike but on the other hand they didn't seem interested in doing this at all.
toweliesbong04.8.08 - 12:29 am
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Alex:
More symbolic. The content on the cards themselves (or whatever people write on) isn't really the point. It's the volume of people affected. This is assuming LA Wheelmen want to be involved. If the LA Wheelmen aren't behind it, then the volume will be less impressive to say the least.
But again, if it's not something people can see from the street, it's a different type of memorial. If we wind up doing our own ride without the Wheelmen, it might make more sense to go with Option 1. More personal, thoughtful, more about Harvey, less about cycling and bike lanes and rights. To balance things. If we ride WITH the Wheelmen, then perhaps we can talk to them about how political they're willing to get with it.
Allan:
I didn't realize we were getting cold-shouldered. If that's the case, should we talk to them openly about whether they even want this? Are we hijacking their good friend for our own purposes, however noble we think them to be? That would be bad. Very bad.
katiepoche04.8.08 - 12:32 am
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User1, I felt a little bit like we were getting the cold shoulder. I think there's definitely an element of that.
On the other hand this is OLD organization. They have some pretty slow moving bylaws that they adhere to with the fidelity you only find in an aging group which has a big stake in tradition. They also aren't the most technically sophisticated group = it appears that they handle most of their business on the phone or in person.
We all got sidetracked. Let's try once more to give that cold shoulder a warm - one more week - and then if they don't contact us let's discuss options for doing something independently.
How does that sound?
Alex Thompson04.8.08 - 12:36 am
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toweliesbong and my messages passed each other in the aether.
Do you mean they aren't interested in hosting a memorial ride? Aren't interested in posting a ghost bike? Aren't interested in either one?
katiepoche04.8.08 - 12:36 am
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My hunch is, and I get a similar vibe to Towlie's, is that they don't know who we think of as competence and follow through, they're viewing as too aggressive. That is - when we do email.
I wrote them again, short and to the point. Would everyone else do the same?
Alex Thompson04.8.08 - 12:39 am
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More aether! Crap.
That sounds good, Alex. I agree with trying, and trying hard, to give them the benefit of the doubt, and also keeping in mind that they just lost a friend. Compassion, and letting them do stuff at their own pace, is a good thing here. I'll write again, and with a gentle but direct hand.
Allan, thanks for bringing this back up. It wasn't forgotten, but I'm glad for the kickstart.
katiepoche04.8.08 - 12:42 am
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My email: "I learned of Harvey's passing through the Midnight Ridazz website and am helping out with placing a Ghost Bike in memoriam to Harvey. We'd like to place his Ghost Bike as close as possible to where he went down. If anybody can help me with the approximate location I would be very grateful."
This was the response: "Hi Greg ...
the accident happened near (almost in front of) the residence at
8455 La Tuna Canyon Road on a downhill curve in Sunland CA
how thoughtful of you ...
thanks ..."
I had received another response that basically said talk to so and so, but I deleted it because the so and so was the person who responded above.
toweliesbong04.8.08 - 12:46 am
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Sorry - I can't seem to write a sentence which makes sense, but I'm glad Katie was able to get the gist. Hopefully my email makes more sense.
Alex Thompson04.8.08 - 12:50 am
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Well if this isn't happening this weekend, the following weekend is not going to be good for me and others. That's the weekend of the poker ride. So we're looking at the end of the month.
User104.8.08 - 12:53 am
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I'm a little bit psychic. I'm also a little bit autistic. It balances out.
toweliesbong, that email is curt, but he's given you the information you asked for. And he said it was thoughtful. His words and his actions are telling me that they DO appreciate and want this, even if they're not effusive.
katiepoche04.8.08 - 12:56 am
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I forgot to mention something about what Katie said. Yeah the last thing I want to do is hijack this and make it our own. That's why it's a good idea to communicate, but it seems like it's going one way. I guess we'll hang tight and wait to see what they say.
Also, weren't we waiting for some club meeting or something? So when was this club meeting? It's getting close to a month we've been addressing this.
User104.8.08 - 12:58 am
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"His words and his actions are telling me that they DO appreciate and want this, even if they're not effusive."
I agree, I just don't think the club is interested in participating.
toweliesbong04.8.08 - 12:59 am
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Gotcha. I'm hearing from all three of you, who have been in more frequent contact than me, that they're not against it but they're not IN it either. Okay.
That's too bad, but it's their perogative.
katiepoche04.8.08 - 1:04 am
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Maybe the club is not interested. As my Track coach in HS would say about the prom "If you don't ask, she won't go." Let's all ask again, and then wait for the response. No sense over analyzing our limited info when we can still solicit more.
Alex Thompson04.8.08 - 1:04 am
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Invite Mr. Box for comment too. He's now an LAWheelman.
I checked when they have their monthly meeting. It's the third Wed or Thurs of the month.
User104.8.08 - 1:24 am
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I'll talk to the Boxinater - if his holiness is not already watching this thread. There's someone else I can talk to also, as a final measure.
Alex Thompson04.8.08 - 1:30 am
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here's my 2 cents. i used to ride with LAW and have done La
Tuna with them before. they are a group that can form a ride and do it quickly, if they wanted to. just this weekend i was wondering what happen to this ghost bike memorial and here it pops up again. from reading this thread i'm wondering why you're trying so hard to get THEM to participate... they should be the ones requesting our attendance. they are acting shamefully and they should be told so. plan and date the damned ride. let them know. i'll do one of their boring ass rides and pass out notices. all this "why won't they talk to us" crying about is absurd.
indigis04.8.08 - 7:31 am
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Hey, indigis. Good to know that they aren't slow-pokin' geezers. But nobody's crying. We're trying to be respectful towards a cycling group that lost one of their riders. It has nothing to do with us feeling left out.
IF a ride is to be scheduled, it's on them to schedule it, 'cause he was a Wheelman, not a Ridaa. If they don't, then we can step in. It looks like we're at that point, at that threshold, but I don't see a problem with making sure we're not stepping on their toes before we do it. It's about Harvey and his friends, not about us and our feelings.
katiepoche04.8.08 - 10:11 am
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It's on:
Hi Alex:
Memorial ride will be held May 4, starting at Griffith Park. It will be a short ride going up to Montrose and back...(with a longer leg up to the top and over La Tuna and back) and a picnic gathering in the park when you return.
Bobbi
Indigis is so cranky! Indigestion!! (just giving you shit dude)
Alex Thompson04.8.08 - 12:21 pm
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So, we place the Ghost Bike during the 5/4 ride???
That's a perfect weekend for me since the Ghost Bike is currently residing in my garage in Burbank and I'll be extremely busy until that weekend. I have a Schwinn trailer that we can put some stuff in, but it would be good to have another trailer to carry stuff.
The top of La Tuna Cyn is actually about 8.5 miles from my place. Or should we take it to Griffith Park and start from there?
Now that I know where he went down I can rescout possible spots for the bike.
toweliesbong04.8.08 - 1:51 pm
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Oh, good.
I'm glad they're hosting it. Seems right.
katiepoche04.8.08 - 2:09 pm
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Great to see they actually do take care of their own! We should be able to get another trailer if needed no problem.
Thanks for holding the bike Greg. I'll be sure to get the touch up paint.
How we doing on the other stuff? Chain? Flowers? Katie's got the sign covered.
User104.8.08 - 8:08 pm
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I'll talk to Steeve again. He had offered to get a nico cable, sleeves, and press tool. This picture is from his offer to do so, up the thread.
(Hey, Steeve, if you're reading this ... offer still good?)
I can get the flowers. I looked at the pictures from Liz & Shay's ghost bike, also up the thread. (They did such a beautiful job.) Those kinds of flowers are easy to come by in my neighborhood. Unless someone who hasn't been involved to date is interested in getting them. The more the ... well, merrier is the wrong word.
katiepoche04.8.08 - 9:26 pm
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I remember that L&S said they spent a looooooooootttt of time on that bike.
I think that doohickey that Steeeve is suggesting is ideal - Gern of BRW fame highly recommends those.
Alex Thompson04.8.08 - 10:19 pm
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Dude, this bike looks just as white and I didn't spend nearly as long on it. It was brushed on and screaming by at 50 mph in a metal box, you ain't gona know shit.
You'll see.
User104.8.08 - 10:40 pm
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FUCK YOU Alex!
hahahahahaha
User104.8.08 - 11:22 pm
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Yes, the offer is still good for the nicopress and steel cable. I may not be around that weekend, but I can certainly pass off the supplies to someone.
Steeve04.9.08 - 12:27 am
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Where do you live, Steeve? Maybe I can pick up the supplies after you get them from Orange County, or you can drop them off, or something.
Oh wait hey, you're my cousin. And my roommate. And you're right next to me right now. Hey!
(We'll figure it out. SOMEHOW.)
katiepoche04.9.08 - 1:42 am
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it's true. too cranky in the a.m.
indigis04.9.08 - 8:00 am
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I'll send out a press release for this once times are confirmed.
indigis04.9.08 - 8:03 am
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WheelMen and Ridazz.
It's cool to see two, totally different sects cross their flags.
bentstrider04.9.08 - 8:18 am
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Cool being a relative word that can mean a cold shoulder, yes?
We'll see what kind of reception we get when we roll. I plan on doing the longer ride. The picnic should be fun. They bring the eats, we bring the suds.
User104.9.08 - 1:00 pm
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Left this alone for a while, not out of apathy but out of busy-ness. Obviously, with the ride happening early next month, I'll pick up the pace.
This is the flat-sign idea (not a box). I'm planning on modifying the letters so they're not so old-timey, not so feminine. (He was a dude, after all.)
katiepoche04.21.08 - 1:46 am
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Whoah, I hope the colors don't look so neon on your computer as they do on mine. The color I chose is a straight-up cyan.
I was thinking I'd get some plastic lilies (traditional funeral flowers) and spray-paint them white, then go back in with the blue paint for the leaves and some elements of the flowers.
Here it is comped on a bike. Real quick-style, so I just used an image of a bike I had lying around. It's a fixed, and I don't think Harvey rode fixed ... but you get the gist.
katiepoche04.21.08 - 1:49 am
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Simpler, bolder, no reference to what type of bike he was riding.
Darker, more somber blue.
katiepoche04.21.08 - 2:10 am
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Katie,
The bike that was painted for this memorial was stripped bare of anything of no use. That means the cables, brakes, levers, derailer, and tape. It still looks like a bike, just bare to the bones. Other than maybe some, this looks like a ghost bike. My idea is that a ghost bike should be a bit different than your regular street bike. Kinda like in heaven there's no need for brakes or gears. That was my I idea anyways.
The sign design you posted first posted doesn't look feminine to me IMO. I like the first one, but color could be a better choice. I saw a memorial over the weekend that I thought had a good design. It had those office clips that people could clip their messages to. I hope we can do something like that. Also I was thinking that everyone could bring their own flowers and we just tie them on the bike.
User104.21.08 - 1:40 pm
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when this ghost bike is finished are you guys going to organize a ride to see it?
I think we should ride that canyon with a nice big group and make it safe for a memorial ride.
stillline04.21.08 - 2:08 pm
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Well, there's still the box idea, where people write messages and drop them into the box. Are you into that? My plan was to adapt one (or both) designs to the box idea tonight, post it here, and suggest we all come to a decision.
What type of office clips did you see? Like these? >>
Or what if people tied their notes on with string? It could look pretty amazing, to see all the notes fluttering in the wind.
I like the first lettering better, too. Color -- I went with that color because it's bold and will stand out against a dusty hill, and it reminds me of Los Angeles. But I can look at other colors.
stilline -- There's a memorial ride scheduled for May 4th (Sunday) with the LA Wheelmen. We were planning on taking the ghost bike up in a trailer and installing it during the ride.
katiepoche04.21.08 - 2:33 pm
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Hey, folks.
I changed the color. A stately purple-grey.
I'm going to paint the sign, not make a box. Attaching the notes to the bike itself achieves the same goal but in a simpler way. I'm thinking we should tie the notes on with string -- that could be really beautiful. Also has the association with remembering, which is part of the idea of the ride. A memorial. I've got string, and I'll bring paper and pens.
katiepoche04.27.08 - 1:34 pm
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As far as the ride goes the bike is currently in my garage right now, I have a Schwinn trailer to help tow parts of it or all of it. But I don't know about going over to the start of the ride in Griffith Park if it's 8:30am.
Is anybody interested in skipping the beginning of the LA Wheelmen ride and riding directly to the resting location of the ghost bike from my place in Burbank? And then heading over to Griffith Park after?
Also, I will be out of town on Friday, and most of Saturday.
toweliesbong04.27.08 - 1:44 pm
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Katie,
Sorry I didn't see your post regarding the clips. Yes those are the type I saw there in the desert. It worked well since someone didn't have to bring a piece of string to leave a note. If you need any help with this, let me know.
Greg,
I'm not familiar with the area so I don't know what would be the most logical way to do this. You think it might be better to put this up a few days earlier? I can meet you when it's convent.
Is there anything we still need? We have the cable and lock? Flowers? What else?
User104.28.08 - 12:33 am
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Steeve's on cable and lock -- he's been working Coachella this weekend (brag), but I'll confirm with him that he'll be able to get the cables/pinch tool thing before the weekend.
I'm on flowers. Tons of places in my neighborhood.
I'm on sign.
I can be on clips, too, or string. I'm kinda leaning towards string. Not sure if those binder clips would be big enough to fit around a bike frame. I was thinking if I just brought a big ol' ball of string and some scissors, we'd be set.
katiepoche04.28.08 - 1:44 am
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that's some good work you're doing there, everyone...
let me know if you need a hand
adrian04.28.08 - 11:13 am
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Hey Katie,
I was thinking that the clips could be put on the edge of the sign. Holes can be drilled around the edge and have the clips put on with a little nut and screw. The cooks at the bicrowave should be able to do this for you, or maybe someone else can.
BTW, I like the font and the layout on the sign, looks great.
User104.28.08 - 12:39 pm
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Thanks, Allan. I've made the stencil and am getting the paint later today.
I have to be honest, I'm not so into the drilling-holes-into-the-sign bit. If we're trying to keep this thing as simple and clean as possible, then drilling a bunch of holes and screwing hardware into it is against that.
I still vote for trying notes on with string. I have all the materials we'd need to do that -- tons of white paper, a shitload of string, and a hole punch. You could even put your note around the frame and wrap the string around the frame, if you're worried it'll look weird with all those bits of paper hanging off it.
katiepoche04.30.08 - 1:09 pm
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Naw Katie,
We'll go with your idea, no biggy. I'm still concerned about how we're going to do this. I don't know the area so I don't what would be the best way to get this bike to the site.
User104.30.08 - 1:55 pm
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towliesbong, where is your place? (Do you still have the ghost bike?) I was thinking I could show up with the completed sign and flowers and we could assemble it all at your place whenever you get back to town on Saturday. Did I read right that you also have the trailer?
Then, whether you go on the ride at 8:30 or show up later on with the bike, we can all convene at the installation site and pay our respects.
Make sense?
If we need to do any or all of this before you leave town, lemmee know. I can hustle on getting the sign and flowers done sooner if need be.
katiepoche04.30.08 - 4:00 pm
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Allan -- sorry if I seemed stern or pushy. We just need to figure this all out soon ... so much going on this week and this weekend.
SO MUCH.
Times like this, I wish I didn't have a job that was full-time-plus-some-extra. But I'm gonna skip out early today. Don't tell nobody.
katiepoche04.30.08 - 4:04 pm
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Ok, I'm heading out of town Thursday night from work. I will be back on Saturday, hopefully early Saturday afternoon.
The bike is still at my house in the middle of Burbank, email lodesprotosites aaaattttt gmail.
My place is approximately 8 miles from the location for the bike.
I have a cheap Schwinn trailer, I think with the wheels off of the ghost bike it would be manageable in the trailer.
toweliesbong04.30.08 - 4:41 pm
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Unfortunately due to me being out of town and my car cell phone charger dying while I was away I wasn't very organized today.
But, huge thanks to User1 and katiepoche for putting Harvey's ghost bike together. IT'S BEAUTIFUL!!! Katie and I put it in place an hour ago.
toweliesbong05.3.08 - 7:49 pm
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We put it up in a place that's not on anyone's personal property. It's very near to the estimated location of the accident. It's on a slight curve in the road, so it's pretty visible as you come around the bend.
The landscape up near there is really beautiful, and it smells like eucalyptus. Accidental wow: The blue-purple-grey color on the sign is almost the same color as some nearby thistles.
katiepoche05.3.08 - 8:22 pm
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sending deepest condolences to his friends +family.
Coe05.4.08 - 2:01 am
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-->
Ridazz Roulette!
His name is Harvey Hetland...
Better for color? Let's hope.
Dammitt!!
On a bike, on the road.