Guilty thoughts
Thread started by
deesimple at 07.28.08 - 12:10 am
Your opinions?
Please, your thoughts...
There was a ride today coming thru Silver Lake around 5:30 pm.
Im driving, coming out the street and I see a bunch of riders on Silver Lake blvd.Good pace..Really mix crowd,age wise, gender wise.Young-old, even saw a lasy that could have been my mom..
I was looking at them feeling grand and thinking "Fuck Yeah,there goes my peeps"
I continue driving on Silver Lake (next to reservoir) and see Mr. Rollers waiting to make a left into Silver Lake (like good citizen) and I continue past him still with a big smile on my face cause it looked like a good ride.
Good pace, all riders just chilling on the bike lane and cars driving slow and cautious.I was even making sure to slow down the cars behind my vehicle.All of the sudden a rider jumps out of bike lane in front of me.She gets on only lane open to traffic in front of me.Im thinking she would get back in the bike lane to be courteous to drivers and to get some buy in from drivers that we want to share the road.
Anyways , she keeps riding till front of group and was riding like she gets to set the pace on the road..
GUILTY THOUGHST- I wanted to g o around , pull up on her side , roll my window down and flip her off or say"Fucken dumb ass" "Everyone else is sharing the road yet you want to ride on only available lane for no reason" "Stupid ass, its because you that drivers get ticked at us"
I caught myself and just concentrated on the positive.Whom ever was leading that ride was doing a good job with the pace taking into account that I saw some that looked like as if it was their first.
Anyways, I felt bad thinking although made me I understand why a situation like that one is not an excuse for road rage but can see why driver would get triggered to be pissed..Would we like it if a car is riding in from of bike lane when left lane is open???
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Yeah, but you are ignoring the unwritten rule of urban cycling, which is that bikes are not held to the same standards as cars. It's perfectly acceptable to block vehicular traffic, even when not necessary for safety or throughput, just because bikes are morally superior to cars.
ideasculptor07.28.08 - 12:17 am
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And yes we have right to ride in non bike lanes, not disputing that. Im not referring to any legality or rule.Althoug it makes a stronger case since I know do now of our rights cause im a Rida but dont think many drivers are aware of it..
My feud was on the selfishness of the act..All were on bike lane but her..there was no need to jump in front of me and ride slow to hold off traffic..
By all means let it happen when necessary or makes a safer ride..
deesimple07.28.08 - 12:24 am
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And YES..I did not use spell check before I posted as you can see..I usually type as fast as I can think and hit post..
deesimple07.28.08 - 12:35 am
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Anyways , she keeps riding till front of group and was riding like she gets to set the pace on the road..
Are you saying she passed all the slower moving traffic on the right, by riding faster in the lane left to the slower bike traffic?
If so, it sounds as if she was passing slower moving vehicles (bicycles)
.
sexy07.28.08 - 12:59 am
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Silver Lake(next to reservoir) is a one way,one lane street with a bikelane on it..
She got out of bike lane where group was to pass other riders to move right into car lane .Right in in front of me(i was going slow to slow down vehicles behind me).Once she got in fromt of me ..traffic behind me started accumulating.
deesimple07.28.08 - 1:07 am
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I just read me own last comment and it does not make sense..damm it sexy..here it goes
She got out of bike lane and group to ride and hold up traffic by herself..There was no need for it..I was already slowing other vehicles down..Obviously she and group dont know who i am,she just thought of me as another driver on the road.
deesimple07.28.08 - 1:11 am
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lol..Alex..wouldnt your comment amount to the same thing you are commenting against..
You are right???
deesimple07.28.08 - 1:16 am
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ahh shit, i fell into the trap..I should expect a articulate,well written and soewhat long reply from you...
damm it
deesimple07.28.08 - 1:18 am
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I had similar thoughts myself one day when I was driving south on vermont about to make a left on to hollywood heading east. The light was stale green and a break was coming up that would allow me to make the turn but then a cyclist just rides from my right side and plops himself in front of me. I had to break for him too. I wanted to yell at this guy for endangering himself. but kept quiet because he was a "cyclist" but he damn near got hit by me unintentionally.
If a car is already out in the intersection preparing for a left. fall in behind the car rather than ride in front of it! If the light is red you can get in front of the car in the crosswalk safe zone and then pull yourself out into the intersection when it goes green.
I see a few bike riders who lack common sense out there in traffic.
Roadblock07.28.08 - 1:27 am
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Common case of "giving us a bad name."
But, hey, "We are the cyclists." and "My one is red."
imachynna07.28.08 - 1:30 am
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thank god alex thompson. said it for me, cause i wouldnt. I just DO WHAT I WANT ! and was the jailbait reference directed to me ? i'm single.
HANDBONE07.28.08 - 1:32 am
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don't do it TEX. please. look at it a different way. I only use my car when it's damn necessary. i used to love the reagan era, i was pro-military. i was to be one of the finest pilots the airforce or navy has ever seen but i had a change of heart and a change in views. please step outside and beside yourself and understand that we must find a balance of coexistence here and we have to earn the respect patience and sympathy, and empathy of these drivers and this is not a way. Dee is like me. i am like dee. and many of us although we hate to admit it are like Dee. (i went to high school w/ dee and was 2 years ahead of him - im c o 91 he's 93 - right?) we still have necessities for the gas powered vehicle. because (at least i) can't afford an alternate more efficient / greener 4 wheeled motored vehicle. i'll give him shit right now for owning a big ass gass gussling luxiurious fucking s.u.fucking.v. but that's his wrong (yes dee that's wrong )i personally would love a completely electric toyota rav4 from the late 90's or early 2000's (i drive a 2001 toyota corolla). I have an 80 pound dog. i need to take him places and bring 40 & 30 pound bags of kibble for both my dog and cat. i like road trips, camping, and charity rides up north. (Like: "THE WAVES TO WINE MS150 20008 - SEP. 13&14" for example). I use it now as a freelance courier because 9 out of 10 calls are for non local filings... always some filing in a distant county or city courthouse.
bottom line is he, in this case has a valid point. get up to the goddamn front if that is your intention, your true intention. im always a strong supporter and enforcer of taking up one fucking lane of traffic or limit 2 in a 3 lane road but taking up more than we need in space for the fuck of it and just to piss drivers off is what i myself try and prevent and would do this and have don this when i've throwen rides, and in future rides i will throw i will enforce the proper use of lane spaces wether you guise like it or not.
Eddie GOpez07.28.08 - 1:45 am
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Eddie, yes , im working on it..your guilt trip is causing me to change my ways..Ive been riding alot more and leaving my vehicle at home..seriously.
deesimple07.28.08 - 1:52 am
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Alex Thompson wrote:
Who else is sick to death of the old man attitude here on Ridazz? When did this become a navel gazing community which self criticizes ad nauseum??????? Can we give the "I do it right but you others do it wrong" posts a rest for 5 damn minutes?
Yeah, everybody, stop cramming your opinions down other people's throats. That's Alex Thompson's job.
PC07.28.08 - 1:55 am
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deesimple wrote:
Silver Lake(next to reservoir) is a one way,one lane street with a bikelane on it..
She got out of bike lane where group was to pass other riders to move right into car lane .Right in in front of me(i was going slow to slow down vehicles behind me).Once she got in fromt of me ..traffic behind me started accumulating.
So what was she supposed to do, if she was going faster than other riders? Plow right through them? Did she really hold you up for that long? Leave the house a little earlier next time.
PC07.28.08 - 1:57 am
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PC
Nah, she was not in danger of plowing into anyone.Clearly did it for own reasons..
You missed the part in which I said I chose to go slow in order to slow those cars behind me and make it safer for the riders..
I was actually way early on route to pick up some beers.....
I was only saying we should be considerate to drivers if we want the same and want to co-exist on road.
Your "Hey im back" thread was awasome, made me fucken laugh(in a good way,compliment)..
deesimple07.28.08 - 2:04 am
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Roadblock wrote:
If a car is already out in the intersection preparing for a left. fall in behind the car rather than ride in front of it!
Horsepuckey. I have never once in my life encountered a left-turn situation with cross traffic where a car would have been able to shoot through a break but I wouldn't have. It just doesn't happen. Left turns with cross traffic are one of those rare situations where the bike has the advantage every time. We're just as fast as they are for the twenty or thirty feet it takes to make the turn, but we're a whole lot shorter. I always get in front of the car, because chances are I'll be able to make the turn before he is.
PC07.28.08 - 2:08 am
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Deesimple, at first you said she was passing the other cyclists and that she went up to the front of the group. Was she passing them or not? If the former, how do you propose she should have done it without leaving the bike lane? If the latter...um, what the fuck? We're using Newtonian physics here, right?
PC07.28.08 - 2:13 am
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Also: you were deliberately slowing traffic with your car, and now you're all hosed off at this girl for...holding up (potential) traffic with her bike?
PC07.28.08 - 2:20 am
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deesimple,
I'm only doing angry off the cuff posts tonight!!! You are saved.
Alex Thompson07.28.08 - 2:26 am
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Well except that now it seems like PC is in a foul mood . . . man, PC, did you eat some bad veganaisse?
Alex Thompson07.28.08 - 2:27 am
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"I was driving through Silverlake today at about 5:30 to get my nails done, when all of a sudden I came up on a group of bicyclists riding in the bike lane. Some of them were really hot! Those calves! Whooooh! I was checking out their pulsating asses when I realized I was running late for my appointment. I tried to speed up, but wouldn't you know it, some peapicker in a car had the gall to step on his brakes and box me in! I was so frustrated that I wanted to pull up next to him and yell 'HEY, SUGAR BRITCHES, EVERYONE ELSE IS SHARING THE ROAD (OR AT LEAST HAS GORGEOUS ROCK HARD GLUTES) AND YOU'RE PLANTING YOUR OLDSMOBILE RIGHT IN FRONT OF TRAFFIC! YOU'RE THE REASON EVERYBODY HATES GUYS WHO DRIVE CHEVY SUBURBANS!' But I couldn't, so I just pulled out my cell phone and wrote a really inflammatory Twitter about it and I felt better right away. Sincerely, A. Motorist"
PC07.28.08 - 2:28 am
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I got your bad veganaise right here, buddy...
PC07.28.08 - 2:29 am
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I slowed it down to a safe speed(30ishmph) since its a narrow road and drivers dont expect a pack of riders around the turn.Ive seen some pretty bad accidents on that spot.
Im not arguing about her slowing me down, I had beef with lack consideration which causes tention(road rage)...I have the advantage of having the rider perspective . If I was simply a driver and had not been exposed to riding, i would probably been honking cause I did not know better.
deesimple07.28.08 - 2:29 am
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Only hipsters use one "s" . . . didn't you read the latest Unpretentious Bulletin?
Alex Thompson07.28.08 - 2:30 am
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Basically, you're mad at some girl for taking advantage of a situation that you (with all good intentions) created.
PC07.28.08 - 2:33 am
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No problem. I'm having an identity crisis. I don't even know who I am anymore . . . I feel like a smurf who used to be the hulk. I need to take my vitamins I guess.
Alex Thompson07.28.08 - 2:33 am
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Going to sleep now..
See ya Alex
PC- Glad you're back..careful with your Tweeter withdrawal.
deesimple07.28.08 - 2:43 am
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Yeah, that was me, of course. I won't comment on the specifics of the incident, mostly because I didn't see it. There were riders of many levels of ability on that ride; certainly some who weren't used to riding in traffic so that may account for part of what happened. When I'm on those types of rides I just try to set a good example and hope that others might follow it.
I think that the more experience a cyclist gets, the more they have a sense of when its appropriate or necessaryto take a lane, when and how to be assertive and when to get your ass out of the way both for your own safety and out of consideration for others. I'm all about standing u for my rights, but I also don't see the sense in annoying motorists for no good reason. I don't think it helps our cause, which ultimately is to gain our rightful place on the road.
Lately I've been struck by the concept of "modal bias": basically the idea that whatever mode of transport you're using is the predominant one. Maybe it's just a fancy way of saying "people are selfish".
Like a great number of people here, I drive a car, but I like to think that the time I spend on a bike makes me a far more considerate driver. As I've said before, if the average motorist spent just a few hours a year on a bike in traffic , they might start to see the world in a different way. But it still takes a certain willingness to see things from outside ones narrow perspective.
mr rollers07.28.08 - 9:08 am
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I'm thinking maybe she was the ride leader who somehow got stuck back in the pack...you slowed traffic and she took advantage of her chance to move up to the front again??
It's possible...;o)
alicestrong07.28.08 - 9:20 am
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One more thing - can someone close this bold tag?
mr rollers07.28.08 - 9:26 am
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Geezee Thompson, Whats up with you and these excessive tags. You got a point to prove?
The important thing is, that nobody gets hurt.
sexy07.28.08 - 10:16 am
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When driving in a car, I try to be as cognizant and accommodating to cyclist as I can. But I do not take it to the extent where I drive my car like I am on a bike. I give them space but I do not block or slow traffic down for them. All that does is confuse the cyclists and drivers.
As for cyclist who ride mindlessly, they will learn in time. Or if they don't, an accident will thin the herd. Sad but true.
sc_nomad07.28.08 - 11:38 am
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we can police ourselves or others will do it for us.... its up to us
stevestevesteve07.28.08 - 12:00 pm
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It seems like what Dee is describing was a rider who decided to block traffic for no reason. Dee understands what a necessary and unnecessary use of a lane is. It only takes a few seconds to pass a small group, if she passed the group and had made room for the auto-traffic I don't think Dee would even be mentioning this.
I have seen many times on rides when people get so caught up in the power and freedom of riding in a group that they simply take over the road because they can.
I saw in the ABC ride as we were taking up all 4 the lanes on Santa Monica (+ bike lane) a rider get clipped and taken down because he was riding in the far left lane, with no lights, and a car who was trying to wiz past us, saw him too late and he got hit and went down.
This was that drivers fault, with out a doubt, but if that rider would have died or been permanently injured, it wouldn't really have mattered.
I guess what I am saying is that when we occupy more of the road than necessary, we contribute to a situation that causes frustration for drivers and they will occasionally be apt to drive more recklessly.
On a huge ride is is often necessary to take up more than one lane when bombing a hill. But when we take the whole road for extended periods of time and flaunt the law, exercising what Roller's aptly calls
modal bias how can we expect the average diver to act any less modally biased than us?
Most people by nature are selfish assholes, it doesn't matter if they are in/on a hummer, prius, moped, or bike.
However, in the interest of the larger movement to gain respect for a bike in the road I think it helps our cause to suspend our inner assholes, act righteously, and do what we can to convince the other 98% that we are doing something that benefits the city as a whole (and its fucking fun!).
trickmilla07.28.08 - 12:06 pm
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Riding west on Silverlake Blvd, I always leave the bike lane and take a full lane of traffic around the dog park, just before the downhill starts.
The reason?
I know I'll be going pretty fast downhill and I don't want to be boxed in the bike lane, when a door opens, a trash can is right in the middle of it or a car pulls out of a driveway.
I may be doing 25-30mph and if you want to do 35-40mph...well... tough.
marino07.28.08 - 12:17 pm
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Why is it bad for some of us to be sensitive about the future & survival of Midnight Ridazz? This is what we do. Midnight Ridazz, or the LA Bike Scene, or the Bike Culture. Whatever you want to call it. For a lot of us, it's who we are, it's true. It's a community made up of us. So why are the "old men" getting flack for trying, the best way they can, to defend what they love. Criticism and debate, that's fine. Misunderstanding and the frustration that goes with it, that's all understandable too. That's fine. But to throw out a blanket statement like that, which is designed to do one thing - divide - is unfair. Everyone has a different and personal view of what Midnight Ridazz is about. Fortunately there is over-lap in those beliefs, and I tend to stick with the folks that "get it". And "getting it" is clearly subjective these days. With a gravely voice I have to say, "Back in the day it wasn't." Because it wasn't. Everyone knew that Midnight Ridazz was about riding with friends. We rode with our friends because we're safer, at night, on the streets, while riding bikes. The drinking & partying was incidental, but it was natural. I mean, we were celebrating! We felt safe, we had fun, and we were happy. So, when the "old codgers" stop feeling safe, stop having fun, they're no longer happy. You "I do what I wantzz" have got to understand that! You folks have latched on to what the original "8" created, and what the rest of the "old folks" have kept going for the last two & a half years! You can't expect them to shut up, they have as much right to complain and criticize as the rest of you. Midnight Ridazz isn't just made up of individuals - doing what they want. It's made up of old and new, doing what it takes to keep the ride alive and fun. That's what I want, I want the ride to thrive. So if I see bullshit happening that jeopardizes OUR RIDE, I'm going to call it out. It's that simple. And I know people agree with me.
People, more than ever, are fucking with the ride. That's not cool with me.
the reverend dak07.28.08 - 12:21 pm
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be careful; the slope can be quite slippery..
asparagus07.28.08 - 12:27 pm
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Reverend Dak wrote:
With a gravely voice I have to say, "Back in the day it wasn't." Because it wasn't. Everyone knew that Midnight Ridazz was about riding with friends. We rode with our friends because we're safer, at night, on the streets, while riding bikes.
Absolutely not true.
Alex Thompson07.28.08 - 12:34 pm
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@ Trickmilla - yes, exactly what I'm saying!
@ Marino - yes, I do the same thing there, too. I've hit 30+ mph down that hill on many occasions. As most of here know, it's important to recognize that bicycles are not required to stay in the bike lane just because it exists. Among the reasons for leaving the bike lane: obstacles in the lane (grates, trash cans) and passing other cyclists.
@ Dak - very well put! You could cross-post this to several different threads.This pretty much expresses perfectly the state of things in my mind these days. I don't want to come off like the old guy giving anyone a lecture, but this pretty much sums it up for me. Everything changes and goes through transitions; we are certainly going through it now. Make of it what you will, but it's real.
mr rollers07.28.08 - 12:37 pm
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Yeah, everybody, stop cramming your opinions down other people's throats. That's Alex Thompson's job.
PC, wise up, it's his self-appointed job to be the pontificator.
mk452407.28.08 - 12:41 pm
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MR is constantly evolving, how many of the Original 8 still ride MR regularly? Maybe the time has come for us to pass it on to the newcomers and make of it as they will?
As a cyclist I am not defined by MR, it is just another facet of cycling. While I might not agree with the direction MR is going, there is no way I can stop it. MR will be the victim of it's own success. It was a good thing while it lasted.
Yes, I am officially old.
sc_nomad07.28.08 - 12:53 pm
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Alex Thompson is the only one pontificating in this thread.
Anyone who is criticizing an anonymous rider, let's call her Straw Woman, drawing broader conclusions, and then writing "this is bad, we've got to do something" - that's called
sharing your opinion. IT IS NOT PONTIFICATING!
Now where do I go to get a license for this, so I won't be self appointed anymore?
Alex Thompson07.28.08 - 12:54 pm
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trickmilla wrote:
It seems like what Dee is describing was a rider who decided to block traffic for no reason.
Well, no. Dee blocked the traffic with his car, in a misguided attempt to be the four-wheeled white knight for the riders. There was no traffic for her to block, which was probably why she felt like it was OK to ride in the middle of the lane.
Having impeded traffic and created an artificial car-free zone in front of his car, he then proceeded to get pissed off at a cyclist who took advantage of the situation he created. It's like stopping traffic to help an old lady cross the street and then getting mad at the old lady for walking in the middle of the street.
The moral of this thread: human beings can be amazingly, hilariously irrational sometimes.
PC07.28.08 - 1:03 pm
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Trickmilla-- yes, you explained it correctly.
+3
@ Trickmilla - yes, exactly what I'm saying!
@ Marino - yes, I do the same thing there, too. I've hit 30+ mph down that hill on many occasions. As most of here know, it's important to recognize that bicycles are not required to stay in the bike lane just because it exists. Among the reasons for leaving the bike lane: obstacles in the lane (grates, trash cans) and passing other cyclists.
@ Dak - very well put! You could cross-post this to several different threads.This pretty much expresses perfectly the state of things in my mind these days. I don't want to come off like the old guy giving anyone a lecture, but this pretty much sums it up for me. Everything changes and goes through transitions; we are certainly going through it now. Make of it what you will, but it's real.
mr rollers
07.28.08 - 3:37 pm
deesimple07.28.08 - 2:25 pm
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+ 1 mr rollers
Simple really............ while being out there on those crazy roads of LA we need to be more aware of whats around us. I mean I can tell when a car is approaching and try and pull over so they can pass ( while I'm on a single lane road). It's not that hard to do. I also scan around while riding in these groups for people swerving and not holding a line. I know there are a lot of new riders coming out on these rides and some of them don't understand how to ride in a huge group of riders but it's up to us to advise them for everybody's safety. It takes but a second to let them know how it is, and you can make a new friend too.
Freeekeone07.28.08 - 4:10 pm
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I just realized that Alex Thompson posted a picture of me on this thread. Three times.
ohnoitschlo07.28.08 - 4:56 pm
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@Alex Thompson. You said,"Absolutely not true." Being a self-proclaimed math person, you have to have dabbled in a some forms of logic and philosophy. What I said is absolutely what I believe, it may not be "true", it may not be even "right'. But it's what I believe, and you missed the point of what I was trying to say. And what I said is what I believe a lot of us "old guys" believed was the purpose of Midnight Ridazz. I mean, come on! It's #1 and #2 on the list of what Midnight Ridazz is about: 1. Fun 2. Friendship. And people are impeding on the fun, and these people aren't my friends. How is that not Absolutely True? Anyone can be contrary. Anyone can pick apart my choice of words, and argue semantic. But you have to understand what I'm trying to say? People have to understand what I'm trying to defend. What I'm trying to stand up for. That's all I'm asking for, people to be more understanding. Anyone can throw our irreverent pictures of talking cats, but investing time in understanding what people have to say, and why? Come on! Take a fucking moment for once.
the reverend dak07.28.08 - 5:08 pm
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ohnoitschlo and reverend dak,
Alex Does What He Wants!!
Right now what he wants is to write a lengthy post about this topic. Past and present Dak will be quoted. Alex understands where Dak is coming from, but Alex notes that Dak is forgetting some things. That's the point - old man syndrome doesn't stem from having experienced the past, but from features of selective memory.
Where is positive Dak? Where is CRANK Dak? Where is "stick it to the man" Dak? Is it only in thread #48, or is "stick it to the man" Dak buried somewhere in thread #4053?
Alex Thompson07.28.08 - 5:21 pm
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Dak cares less than you probably think.
DAK cares even less about C.R.A.N.K.
The DAK cares even lesser about blind followers, scensters, hanger ons, and poseurs that are fucking up the foundations of what DAK has helped maintain for a few years now.
The Reverend Dak isn't buried, he's on top.
the reverend dak07.28.08 - 5:44 pm
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Dak sounds pretentious and non-inclusive. What kind of person draws people in negative stereotypes such as the ones Dak is playing to? Alex is confused by that. Isn't Mikey Wally a dirty scenester hipster? Isn't he also one of the best newcomers to Dak's life?
Alex Thompson07.28.08 - 5:47 pm
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Chynna, what am i about to say? .....
Joe Borfo07.28.08 - 5:51 pm
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I hate to disagree but I have met Dak several times and he is certainly neither pretentious nor is he non-inclusive. I find it amusing that you use the word stereotype. I've never met you nor do I apparently care to meet you because you seem to embody that stereotype of what one has of a mathematician, i.e., arrogant and lacking in basic human skills. To this, I would add your need to be in control as in
Alex Does What He Wants!! . I only formed my opinions from reading what you've posted. Who knows, maybe away from the internet you might be OK.
mk452407.28.08 - 7:57 pm
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Guise, guise,
no need to argue with AT.
AT doesn't exist.
AT is someone KNITTENS made up to pretend he is one of us.
marino07.28.08 - 8:21 pm
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Thanks Marino. I just found his characterization of Reverend Dak to be untrue. Dak's really a nice person. Ditto for PC. I hate to see guise who have been decent human beings towards me and guise who honestly try to promote the cause being slandered around.
mk452407.28.08 - 8:43 pm
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mk4524,
If you are the person pictured in the center of your profile photo then you have met me - at either the 1st or 2nd Ridazz Bus meeting.
I think that Dak's comments above are exclusionary and pretentious sounding. I feel comfortable saying it because I know it's not in his character to be so, and I think of him as a friend. I think Dak was being intentionally that way, and probably would cop to it.
But hey, I'm unpopular on Marino's side of town, so what the fuck - I'm lacking in social skills and arrogant. I love your characterization of a whole profession. Good job buddy. It's not as if mathematicians are also educators who spend their lives doing things for students when they likely could get paid a lot better doing engineering work.
Alex Thompson07.28.08 - 9:27 pm
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Alex Thompson wrote:
Dak sounds pretentious and non-inclusive.
Alex Thompson sounds like someone who is so hung up on an abstraction on a website--"inclusiveness"--that he is willing to let it destroy what makes these urban social bike rides worth having in the first place.
To you MR may be part of some Grand Redemptive Sociopolitical Movement, but to a lot of people MR is a part of their social life. And the thing about social lives, Alex, is that folks usually choose to conduct them with people whom they find pleasant, and to shun the company of people whom they find unpleasant. Whether you believe it or not, whether you like it nor not, whether it suits your political agenda or not--that's the way it is.
Am I making this clear enough to you? MR is not church. It's not the Green Party. It's not something that people do because they feel obliged to go out there and save souls and change the world. It's just something people do because they have to spend all week doing stuff they don't really enjoy with people they may not like very much, and now they have a chance to do something fun with people they like. Go ahead, jump up and down and flap your arms and tell me that this isn't really the truth. I'm listening. Really. Are you done? Good, because hey, guess what? It really is the truth.
And you want to know what else really truly is the truth? Here it is:
people don't want to spend their Friday and Saturday nights hanging around with predatory, reckless assholes. They're dealing with it as best they can, so you're just going to have to deal with that.
PC07.29.08 - 5:31 am
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Boy Russell, I guess you are back...with a vengence. "Da-Daaa". Maybe some good did come out of your Twitter experience!!! Hmmmm.
:-)
stevo407.29.08 - 5:39 am
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someone needs a cup of hot chocolate and a warm binky
ephemerae07.29.08 - 8:10 am
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Amen PC.
Biking around town with hundreds of other cyclists for evenings of mellow happy fun is awesome.
Feeling like we have to lock up our bikes at every stop and keep everything not bolted on to it in a backpack because otherwise it will end up disappearing, and then being accused of being judgmental because we'd just as soon not see theft and tagging on the rides is more than a little lame.
It's like the cycling version of Gresham's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_Law). Just as bad money drives out good, the handful of unpleasant riders that is using the group as a cover for their own stupidity is likely to start driving more considerate riders to stay home.
JB07.29.08 - 8:18 am
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@ PC: I love you, man!
Thank you for setting it straight in your own inimitable style.
@ JB: you too.
mr rollers07.29.08 - 8:37 am
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Phew, It's just PC, gaise, it's not like we were expecting the Spanish Inquisition...
Joe Borfo07.29.08 - 9:16 am
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Nobody expects a Spanish inquisition!
ephemerae07.29.08 - 9:16 am
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can we not all simply agree to these bits of OBVIOUS TRUTH:
1. what ever form of transportation that I, indigis, am using at that moment is the only appropriate method of transportation.
2. what ever speed that I, indigis, am traveling is the correct speed.
3. whom ever interferes with my unrestrained forward progression is in the wrong and has no rights to the roadway.
i believe we should start here, and then move on to other rules we can apply to others regarding their behavior.
indigis07.29.08 - 10:27 am
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Irony not appreciated:
PC wrote:
Alex Thompson sounds like someone who is so hung up on an abstraction on a website--"inclusiveness"--that he is willing to let it destroy what makes these urban social bike rides worth having in the first place.
Except, that I want these rides to continue to grow and thrive. Everyone who is paying attention knows that - how many of you post 3 rides a month? How many of you ride the world's shittiest mountain bike just to carry 40 lbs of chalk, jump rope, frisbees and soccer balls?
I see a lot of howling at the moon. How many of you have stood up at CRANK MOB and asked people to be safe? How many at SMCM? How many of you Kieron's CRANKmobments on the back of your spokecards? How many of you have then soberly asked people, as you handed out those spokecards, to be safe?
I have. I approach people personally and directly at every ride.
Addressing these issues in person is hard - it has real social consequences and it takes a lot of time. People think I'm a jerk because I yell at people to slow down or ask people to be safe. Mihai thinks I'm angry because I hassle him for not holding his line on Cub Camp. People think I'm a nerd because I ask them to be safe. They think I'm no fun, or they used to, because I criticize someone for not attending to customer at BRW.
By contrast,
joining the gang bang of complaining on this message board is not hard. It's the easiest thing in the world to get on a message board and express your outrage. It takes little to no time, and you don't have to look the person you criticize in the face. Afterward all the "reasonable" people will agree with you and you can all nod vigorously, confident that you spoke out.
Preaching to the choir is what you're doing. And there has been far too much of it lately. The pessimist would say we've positively reinforced online criticism to such an extent that we now have a culture of "complain, but don't act."
PC wrote:
To you MR may be part of some Grand Redemptive Sociopolitical Movement . . .
PC, I don't know where you're coming from here.
You can have no idea what I think of MR, as I've never shared my point of view with you. Nor would I, given your propensity to criticize before understanding. Moreover, it's not pertinent - I didn't raise it, it's not part of the discussion.
Instead of leaping so fearlessly to Dak's defense, ask yourself what kind of environment is bringing out the worst in all of us. I'm bitching out other posters, Dak is decrying the new crowd, and PC's rants are crazy and irrelevant. Borfo's spam is boring and Marino can't even muster a decent troll. PC might even make a spelling mistake!
I know, when the board is full of negative posts, so much so we have to make positive threads, something ain't right. We're missing more than just FUNDERSTORM . . .
Alex Thompson07.29.08 - 1:43 pm
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Yeah...gee, I don't know how I could ever have thought that I could divine your point of view, seeing as how you've never "shared" it with me. Because it's not like you do a lot of writing or anything, right? Silly me. I blame Twitter.
As for all the yelling and the safety lecturing you do at rides: please enjoy this cookie, compliments of me, in honor of your years of service. I even pre-digested it for you. Now quit trying to imply that anybody who isn't as extroverted as you are doesn't get to have an opinion, because it's fucking risible and embarrassing.
And as for folks joining the "gang bang of complaining on this message board," and as for people acting like crabby old men, I commend to your attention the following golden oldie from MR.com, in which a certain Alex Thompson gets sand in his vulva because people are posting too many rides on the board:
STOP THE EVENT SPAM Aaah, you can't beat the classics.
There. I think I've covered all of the irrelevant things that you've introduced into the conversation. Now can we get back to the question of whether the abstract ideal of "inclusiveness" is so important that it's worth preserving at all costs, even at the cost of having to include selfish and stupid and aggressive people who make the rides unpleasant? That's sort of what I wanted to talk about, you know.
PC07.29.08 - 3:44 pm
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P.S. In response to your email: I got yer "academic rigor" right here.
PC07.29.08 - 3:45 pm
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Well, I've never shared my big picture thinking in my writing either - you're drawing inferences that are unwarranted. It would be hard to write about. So there you go - you think you know, but you don't.
Alex Thompson is almost done. 44 topics, 916 replies. Inspired by imachynna, I will not exceed a cumulative total of 1000 replies + posts.
Alex Thompson07.29.08 - 3:59 pm
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I got yer "big picture thinking" right here. Do you want to talk about the actual subject of inclusiveness and whether it trumps every other consideration in an urban social bike ride, or would you prefer to keep complaining about how I don't understand you?
PC07.29.08 - 4:05 pm
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Spam musubi are best. Portuguese sausage, fried eggs and garlic fried rice.
sc_nomad07.29.08 - 4:18 pm
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For all you newbies and ramdoms reading theses post.Dont get scare.
They really respect and like each other and wanna share something like???????????
Ice cream cone??
deesimple07.29.08 - 7:02 pm
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I still consider Alex Thompson a friend, it's Absolutely True. Placido Consuelo and Mike too.
the reverend dak07.30.08 - 2:56 am
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Ridazz Roulette!
