Attacked While Riding
Thread started by
el_spaniard at 07.3.08 - 3:10 pm
I'm new to this forum, but have been frequenting the site for some time now. You all seem like a cool group of folks and look forward to riding with all of you in the future. I was eavesdropping on the "MACE" thread started by brassknuckle and thought I would start my own thread regarding the subject of being attacked while riding. I have extensive hands on and academic experience in law enforcement. I AM NOT a Law Enforcement Officer or a Lawyer...I work as a civilian for a law enforcement agency...
I, like many of you, ride late at night. My neighborhood is particularly dangerous. I may ride anywhere between 10PM-6AM by myself. Getting jumped at those hours of the day can be bad for your health. Lack of bystanders and the fact that most cops are either busy with calls, or they are at the station booking suspects or finishing up paperwork is a disadvantage to you if attacked.
Your cell phone alone will not save your life. When most people dial 911 on a cellie, they are directed to CHP. CHP is a deathwish. Depending on the day of the week, or time of day, CHP can take forever. Not to mention that some CHP dispatchers will not just transfer you to the department you ask for...they will want you to explain the situation to them AND THEN TRANSFER YOU. Waste of time. The best thing you can do if you want police to respond on time, is to find out what cities you will pass through (or divisions). For example, if your riding in Whittier, then get Whittier PD's Dipatch Phone number. This number will patch you directly to Whittiers dispatch from your cellie. DO NOT COUNT ON 911 FROM YOUR CELL...IT TAKES TOO LONG. One minute of getting your ass beat is a VERY VERY LONG TIME. Five mins on hold for a CHP dispatcher will get you killed.
Mace is OK. The restrictions on mace are pretty much limited to age and misuse. Using Mace when in fear for your life is also less frowned upon by LEO's than throwing punches. BUT...Mace is prone to causing cross-contamination and is useless if the person is crazy or on drugs. You'll spray the attacker, they'll lick their face, and say, "Hmmm...taco sauce".
Using an object to strike is sketchy. You have to meet the attack with a REASONABLE AMOUNT OF FORCE. If the attacker is swinging a baseball bat at your face, then strike them over the head with your U-Lock. If they are punching, then punch back. If they pull out a gun, and you have one too, then shoot them. Just remember, you will have to JUSTIFY your actions. Once the threat is non-existent...THEN STOP and RUN AWAY and Call Police ASAP. When they arrive, you say you were in fear for your life and you'd like to speak to your lawyer (keep your mouth shut until you see your lawyer). You WILL go to jail. But remember, you are not guilty until the jury says you are. At this point, you will most likely be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder, or if the suspect died...murder. If its justified, then you have nothing to worry about.
Using pepper spray will probably not get you arrested, but you better be prepared to press charges and go to court to testify against the defendant when they're charged with Assault & Battery.
Batons, brass knuckles, bruce lee chucks, throwing stars, are HUGE NO-NO's.
Tasers are expensive and fall under the same restrictions and pitfalls as the mace. It is a bit more effective.
If you have a handgun and a concealed weapons permit in LA county, then you must be the mayor. If so, carry your handgun. If you are like most people, and do not have a CCW, then you CAN...I repeat you CAN, OPENLY CARRY (in PLAIN SIGHT), an UNLOADED handgun (that you legally possess), IN A INCORPORATED CITY AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT AT THE POST OFFICE, CITY HALL, WELFARE BUILDING, OR WITHIN 1,000 FEET OF A SCHOOL. Just remember that this is Los Angeles County. Most people have not seen someone open carry since the 1800's. You may be contacted by police. You better know your laws. You better know the consequences of using a firearm for self-defense. Its an option. For more info you can visit opencarry.org and enquire about the subject on their forum.
My best advice would be to avoid area's you KNOW are dangerous. If you have to ride through the area, then haul ass. You see shady people, avoid them. You get attacked, try to get away. If you can't get away, THEN FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE. BETTER TO BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6.
HAVE FUN. RIDE SAFE.
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My whole take on a tweaker getting killed in self-defense is....
WHO'S GOING TO MISS THIS GUY ANYWAY?
I hear of many bodies being found in the desert that are ID'd and matched up against missing persons reports.
Most of the time, these were just scum-shits that did something wrong and had no one left around to care that they even existed.
So, if I ever found myself in the position where I had to push an attacker out into traffic to get hit by a truck, I would take those facts into consideration.
bentstrider07.3.08 - 3:22 pm
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el_spaniard, thank you. that was very informative.
indigis07.3.08 - 3:32 pm
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also in the city of LA, dial 311, will get you the city operator (after a message from Tony) tell them you need the police for a non-emergency police situation. They will ask for your zip code, and then put you through to Police Service Representative aka city of LA 911. If you say it an emergency, they may tell you to hang up and dial 911, then you get the CHP. It might be longer then dialing 911 to get a LA police service Rep, but probably quicker then going through CHP.
Stay Safe
sexy07.3.08 - 3:45 pm
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"mmmm... taco sauce."
(Smiling) Who is this guy?
Joe Borfo07.3.08 - 3:48 pm
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for Long Beach the non emergency number is 562 435 6711, they actually pick up and you can get to dispatch right away.
dannyzuko07.3.08 - 3:59 pm
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If for some reason you have a hard time getting the number you can always ask one of the local cops, deputies, highway patrolman, or non-sworn personnel. They always have a direct number to dispatch. I doubt they would deny you access to the number...I give it out on demand when people ask...
el_spaniard07.3.08 - 4:12 pm
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I also forgot to mention that if you have one departments dispatch number...you can call them and they'll transfer you to another department a lot faster than CHP will.
For Example, if you have Whittier Dispatch on speed-dial, but you need emergency assistance in Downey, all you have to do is call Whittier Dispatch and tell the dispatcher to transfer you to Downey Dispatch.
Departments in charge of smaller cities (i.e. Downey, Maywood-Cudahy, Bell Gardents, Huntington Park, South Gate, Arcadia, Azusa) tend to respond to your phonecall faster and transfer you faster than CHP, Sheriffs, LAPD, Long Beach, etc. because of less calls for service (less population and area of responsibility).
el_spaniard07.3.08 - 4:23 pm
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Good Advice el_spaniard.
Except for that bit about open carry.
See California Dangerous Weapons Control Law
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/12020.php
12031. (a)(1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.
You're welcome to test the law, but I think it's pretty straightforward.
JB07.3.08 - 5:05 pm
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My bad, el_spaniard, I missed the UNLOADED bit.
Still,Iwould imagine carrying an unloaded handgun around in plain sightwould cause more problems than it would resolve.
JB07.3.08 - 5:18 pm
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As a CCW holder in a good number of states and someone who has worked directly on trying to fix things in CA I can tell you that carrying an UNLOADED gun in plain site in any city in CA with a population grater than 200,000 (cities with populations under that allow open carry of loaded guns) *might* be legal, but any police officer who sees you will assume it's loaded and arrest you, if not shoot you. You *might* be able to get out of it later, but this will happen every single time you see a police officer, and people will call 911 about you a lot.
I really, really wouldn't advise anyone to try that.
seanbonner07.3.08 - 6:17 pm
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thank you! well scribed spaniard!
ingipet07.3.08 - 6:40 pm
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Open carry is a VERY CONTROVERSIAL issue in California. It is an option. I also advised that anyone wanting to open carry, should know their laws and understand the responsibility involved in using a firearm for self-defense. I have heard many different viewpoints on the subject. I am NOT here to debate whether its a good or bad idea or whether the 2nd amendment is an individual right....yadayadayada....
I just cited open carry as an OPTION. I work for a law enforcement agency and I understand quite well the risks one takes with law enforcement when open carrying in California. But I am also VERY WELL AWARE of what happens to people when they don't have the proper tools to defend themselves. If someone decides they want to open carry in LA, then that is there OWN PERSONAL CHOICE.
I, personally, would not open carry in LA...BUT IT IS AN OPTION. I cannot speak for everyone.
el_spaniard07.3.08 - 7:51 pm
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when i used to carry, i never considered carrying in the open... except when it accidentally peaked over my belt buckle.
indigis07.3.08 - 9:33 pm
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very good informative read el_spaniard. plz introduce urself to me when you decide to ride. I would love to pick your brain on this open catty issue.
Any1 wanna ride to the shooting range with me this weekend? i've got about 500 target shots i want to run thru my ppk.
jchungerford07.3.08 - 11:12 pm
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JC,
I've been wanting to go for a while. I've been oiling mine for several years and haven't had anyone to go with. This weekend may be tough, but let's talk.
stevo407.3.08 - 11:36 pm
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The IAAL/MAF (Armed Librarians) isn't a name only, we started off as a buncha friends who went to the gun range all the time, then bought bikes. The LA Gun Club is closed right now because of LA's ban on AMMO sales around the forth of july, but will be open again next week. We should totally organize a ride to the range!
seanbonner07.4.08 - 12:28 am
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and an unloaded gun is ever so useful in a life threatening situation, too.
ideasculptor07.4.08 - 1:42 am
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Ya srsly. "Hey, bro, can you stand by for a minute while I slam a magazine into the frame and rack a round into the chamber? Wait...hold on...keys...cell phone...gum...shit, just hold on..."
PC07.4.08 - 2:43 am
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What about throwing a sack over the attackers head and punching them in the face?
I also wonder what the restrictions are on carrying around bullwhips?
I swear, no matter how they try to change things, it seems as though the PTB is thinking that everyone, but victims deserve a second chance.
I still say if anything, just let the crazy motherfucker that's about to attack you "have it".
Then just make an anonymous call to the cops and say "there's been an boo-boo."
Just another Johnnie Doughboy in an unmarked grave.
Mommy and daddy gave up on that kid a long, time ago.
bentstrider07.4.08 - 4:42 am
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jchung, sean, i've been wanting to head over to the range for awhile. when la gun club opens again, lets ride over and pop off a few hundred.
indigis07.4.08 - 7:10 am
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Agent Orange and i were discussing this at the last Ride-Arc. He was waiting to hear when the next A. L. group was going to head over.
I just haven't figured out how to transport my locked container in my "trunk" when i'm riding my bike to the range.
stevo407.4.08 - 7:50 am
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Wow, and I thought the Armed Librarians was a bridge club.
Drew07.4.08 - 10:24 am
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it looks like i'm still the only IAAL*MAFer to not have made it to the gun range yet!!
bang bang!!!!
bang!
crack crack!
i'm in. when's the next spinvitational gun club ride?
ingipet07.4.08 - 10:39 am
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word - The 2nd Amendment Ride!
we can all have a contest with different calibers.
jchungerford07.4.08 - 12:15 pm
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steveo, i believe a messenger bag counts as a locked trunk when it comes to transporting a loaded weapon. i could be wrong tho.
indigis07.4.08 - 2:49 pm
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If you will be TRANSPORTING the handgun from Range-Home or Home-Range, then it must be UNLOADED and LOCKED in a container.
That container can be a frame bag, messenger bag, pannier, etc that is locked.
You cannot have funky deviations from your Home-Range/Range-Home route. That means Point A to Point B or Vice Versa. You can't Point A to Point Z and then backtrack to Point A so you can get to Point D and meet up with the guys at Point H so you guys can ride to the bar at Point T and then take the scenic route to Point B.
el_spaniard07.4.08 - 4:06 pm
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I do have a lockable Pelican type case that was designed for transporting handguns. And i was aware of the a-b-a requirements. Glad to know i could use a Pannier or messenger bag.
stevo407.4.08 - 11:47 pm
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THANK YOU. I live in a shitty neighborhood but when riding at night I usually try to convince myself I am too fast to be a target. This is a good wakeup call.
seahz07.5.08 - 7:45 pm
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Ridazz Roulette!
hee hee.