Why?
Thread started by
indigis at 09.26.12 - 10:23 am
A question posed to those of you who've been on MR for several years and have seen its arc... To what do you account MR's dramatic change in popularity and vibrancy?
indigis
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Are you saying it's more or less popular and vibrant?
barleye09.26.12 - 10:31 am
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As far as the website goes.. more discussions are happening on Facebook. Group rides have tapered off a bit... there's still a damn good group of people that come out that I'm friends with...but the numbers were almost doubled around 2008 and 2009... maybe not doubled but dropped about a third.
barleye09.26.12 - 10:40 am
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I could tell you the answer.
FBI09.26.12 - 1:20 pm
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The fear of getting ticketed or arrested probably scared off an entire lot.
However, these large turnouts spread throughout the year have reignited that hunger in some.
bentstrider09.27.12 - 3:12 am
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Everything ebbs and flows.
rev106 responding to a
comment by bentstrider
09.27.12 - 7:13 am
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The scene is still dope. You just got to know which rides to go on.
JOKER09.27.12 - 9:18 am
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ebb and flow like paul said... there was an active push on here to move ride postings to facebook and the fact that this website didnt get upgraded and the fact that facebook is really easy to get sucked into... and everyone is doing it...
Roadblock09.27.12 - 1:05 pm
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active push by a certain someone I mean...
Roadblock09.27.12 - 1:05 pm
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Nice to see so many old faces. Thanks for the insights.
Indigis
indigis09.27.12 - 8:55 pm
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haha what about Allex'x evil cousin? Skrillex Thompson?
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Allex Thompson
09.27.12 - 8:56 pm
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HAHAHAH
seriously though, I miss Skrillex Thompson's fiery bomb throwing at everything everyone. It stirred up the pot!
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.28.12 - 1:02 am
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facebook is really easy to get sucked into... and everyone is doing it...
Ha! Fucking copout. Not everyone is doing it.
PC
responding to a comment by Roadblock
09.28.12 - 1:17 am
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Ha. Fucking tags.
PC09.28.12 - 1:19 am
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I can't see any advantage to facebook over this site which is more direct to people who have a vested interest in the LA bike scene (or whatever you want to call it). My facebook hate is well known, so back to on topic I suppose.
I think there has been a larger country wide push for cycling as a way to get around and for many early on it was a political platform, thankfully these people have moved on for the most part or learned to leave the megaphones at home. I also think a lot of cycling use is tied to gas prices.
As the numbers grew, we started to see more track bikes and then the fixie explosion. Now I'd say by the number of people asking me for fixies has dropped dramatically as well as the parts winding up on my wholesalers close-out lists, many of these people have quit riding bikes so the ranks are thinning, I'd say over the years we're finding our space and just now are we sort of settling in to a more stable bike riding population. However this population will be less on the tourist/trendster/hipster level and more on the bike rider for practical/lifestyle type which will have more longevity and sustainability, you may have noticed a upswing in interest in cargo bikes in the last year or so.
anyway why am I up at 4:30 am?
rev106 responding to a
comment by PC
09.28.12 - 4:46 am
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Great points Paul, nice to have yer input here. Hi Gas Prices are here to stay so that makes me believe a lot of new cyclists will too. And I like what you wrote about the fixie trend overheating. Think they will go the way of the beach cruiser? And hell yeah, CARGO BIKES!
tallcans4tallbikes responding to a
comment by rev106
09.28.12 - 10:31 am
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I blame people's reaction to Sgt Krumer's postings. It was an almost immediate drop off in postings and comments from when Sgt Krumer began posting here. His threads got lots of responses and there were lots of threads with questions for him, but almost all other activity on the site seemed to immediately die off.
Its not like the police weren't reading the threads here before, and its not like the police aren't reading the postings on facebook, but having someone self-identify as police interacting on the site seemed to chill the discussion.
gregb09.28.12 - 12:19 pm
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I think facebook had a huge part in it, too. Not necessarily Krumer. Events are so easy to plan on FB, it makes people feel like if they don't plan it there then nobody will know about it... and that is FALSE! Depending on the industry, being on fb is like having a staff job- it's a fear based mentality to keep you there working for them. And just because you can see how many people are "Confirmed" or "Going" means nothing about the turnout.
This site is way better for promoting rides, at least right now I feel this is true. Ever since I took the mosey off of facebook and started posting it exclusively on MR numbers have grown and grown, but not in a fat gross way. More experienced / great ridazz than ever.
I think people will come back here when facebook dies its slow painful death. And they will probably be back for good after having learned their lesson like I did... Maybe the forums will never be what they used to be, but I think MR is the best and obviously most open platform to post rides regardless of the state of the forums.
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by gregb
09.28.12 - 12:51 pm
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Nonsense. Krumer didn't show up until June of 2010, by which point the decline was well underway:
All the reasons have been discussed here before: the rise of Facebook; clique-ish infighting; novelty and wonder giving way to stagnation and boredom; the whole beautiful mess collapsing under the weight of its own popularity. A thousand explanations for a thousand riders. The police presence, I'm sure, drove some away, but it was far from the only reason.
nathansnider responding to a
comment by gregb
09.28.12 - 1:06 pm
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Yeah from that data it looks like Krumer's arrival in June/the Manny's Carwash incident and police presence at CM artificially kept the traffic up for a few months and then there was a huge drop off afterwards as the numbers returned to their downward trend.
gregb responding to a
comment by nathansnider
09.28.12 - 4:31 pm
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I remember that happening actually...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by gregb
09.28.12 - 4:36 pm
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I never said anything.
FBI09.28.12 - 8:41 pm
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I can only tell you the reason I ran for the hills and didn't look back. For the years I was involved here, it was a blast. It was the one place I could find where there were other rebels and scofflaws. This is where we, quite frankly, the social outcasts, played. Where we took over the streets. Where we ran through reds. Where the helicopters lit our paths at midnight. This forum buzzed 24 hours a day. And there was NO mention of Facebook at the time I'm talking about. Then RB put out the red carpet for blue uniforms. I can only imagine that you, Don, thought that having a cop address the problems that bikers were screaming about would be a responsible thing to do. Unfortunately, you opened the gates and let in a Trojan Horse. The last thing the majority of the ridazz wanted was to let a cop crawl into bed with us, even if he brought a fluffy pillow with him. I played on this site, I biked on the freeway, i breezed through reds, left a helmet at home, because i enjoyed acting counter-culture. As soon as Kumer came by, I warned repeatedly that this was a bad thing for the community... that the cops were going to succeed in breaking up this community, not from the outside the way they were trying, but rot it out from the inside. Is it no surprise to me that Kumer now got "reassigned." This site is anemic. They achieved their goal of quashing the rebel community. Congrats to them. Thank you very much RB.
indigis09.29.12 - 9:59 pm
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I think this site intrinsically limited itself (and thus the community growth) to those with the savvy and patience to deal with its quirks. Facebook, for all its fault, is pretty easy for mainstream people to understand and use. I am not saying that it is impossible to post a ride on this site - but it is a long way from being as easy to do as it is on other platforms.
Additionally, MR does not allow the (now ubiquitous) "Sign on with X" (X being facebook, twitter, etc.).
So, that was the Web 2.0 boat that Midnight Ridazz missed.
Next, now that mobile is everything - MR is simply getting buried. Commenting, sharing, and all the rest of it face a lot of friction for the clueless mobile user.
I spent my childhood growing up with PCs and the internet. The broader the demographic gets on these rides, the less likely the community is to be made up of people with that background. Perhaps in the beginning - when a high digital literacy was required just to find out about when and where these underground rides were happening.
Now, every due and dudette has a cell phone and a ton of large media companies begging them to share their lives with their friends over a given company's servers.
What needs to happen to reverse the trend?
(1) A simple forum/ride mobile site
(2) login integration with other social media platforms - maybe, someday, an MR app for Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Pinterest, etc.; one-click sharing on those platforms of forum posts, comments, rides
(3) An archived MR.com site (old.midnightridazz.com) and a new, slightly redesigned computer-friendly site. Rides should become a special type of forum post.
I think image sharing here is not as critical as the ride listings and forums posts. That is the critical function of the site for our community. Creating new features on the site would be great, but is a distraction from the essence of the this site and its value to the LA bike community.
ubrayj0209.29.12 - 10:36 pm
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I think I agree with some sentiments. But in any case, to quote Marcus, "suggadik ."
RB is trying to work within the systems. He's got a lot of clout and is trying to legitimize way we're perceived and respected in the name of bikes in LA. Critical Mass is a time bomb, and Don did what he felt would alleviate pressure. Ridazz still maintains it's punk ethos without having to try too hard. Some of you try too hard...
Drinking a beer at a rest stop used to be unspoken and on the down-low. Now our little vices are being advertised on shirt vests and blatantly for the world to see. We used to all be stealthy adults and now we've become reckless adolescents.
Stopping at reds is common sense. That's why I do it.
Wearing a helmet is a choice. I choose to wear one.
I ain't running from nobody as long as I have got nothing wrong to show them. (never mind what's happening when they're not looking)
I think some of you don't get Midnight Ridazz. Acting counter-culture is counter-counter-culture.
None of us wanted the cops to infiltrate. Don't blame RB for doing what he did to keep things from getting even nastier. Cops are always going to be everywhere. There's nothing you can do about it but smile and wave. What the fuck do you think FBI is trying to say?
And where's Crybaby for crying out loud?
P.S. Stop lurking, loser1.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by indigis
09.29.12 - 11:45 pm
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I dunno man, I think this site is pretty damned easy to use. A hell of a lot easier and much more simple than any other web 2.0 style posting implementation / social network.
More traffic will either come back or it won't- mostly depending on how long it takes doom to set in for facebook. That is the only other main place where I know people post rides or look for ride info. Most of the ride posts are on MR as well. Anyway I feel that doom has already arrived for fb and it's ready to pop any day now... (facebook suicide party series anyone??)
Forum improvements would be great (a mobile site would see a ton of mileage), but social media networks are a waste of time and would only pull history away from this site even more than they already have.
Still blazin', even after all these years
(scroll to the bottom of the page)
jonnyboy responding to a
comment by ubrayj02
09.29.12 - 11:54 pm
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I love you Rev. Joe Borfo (but I suspect you already knew that).
mr rollers responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.30.12 - 10:00 am
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Is there a direct correlation between the number of posts here and the largeness of a given ride? I think my rides have gotten a little bit smaller perhaps, I still use paper flyers and they seem to still be a useful ride origination tool. I've never posted a ride on facebook and I'm still getting turnouts but I do use other bike forums to spread it around.
rev106 responding to a
comment by mr rollers
09.30.12 - 5:53 pm
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nah that's not user1 it's indigis a real live person... I don't know, I've always put up the "Ridazz Salute LAPD" message on the front page since the day this site went live. I dont see the cops as the enemy when it comes to riding bikes. they really dont care about us. Maybe there was an agenda to crush the rebels... but to me that was the focus of facebook - crush all the little communities out there and re-congregate them into their walmart of communities that actually isolate people from each other and give all our info to the authorities. we all fell for it. including me.... a lot of forums died when facebook got huge. people complained that MR never got updated but then they also dont know what a task that is... I tried to get it happening but I was never in the position to raise the estimated 10k-20k to actually do it right. people be all like "oh I know php it's easy just make a joomla site!" but it's not that easy to do........ or maybe it was me being difficult. I dont know. I just didnt have the money. sorry.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
10.1.12 - 12:40 pm
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another perspective
Going to a ride and not feeling that your property (or yourself) is safe take the fun at attending, being it a ride or anything. I never felt unsafe on a ride personally but have heard of many who have. As for my property. I thought it was really sad on the last few rides that I went on that I had to lock my bike in the middle of the beach. Then asking someone when we where all underground in a tunnel if I should lock my bike, the response was doubt in the voice "I hope not"
I know I'm responsible for my own possessions (and if I don't lock my bike and gets stole I have no one to blame but myself and the thief) , but having to watch and lock your bike and bag at stops has turned into a big bummer.
That just my perspective, but I'm sure plenty of people have some feelings similar. Why would most people want to be part of something like that or associate in place where you have worry about predators. .
sexy10.1.12 - 2:59 pm
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that's been happening since the ride reached 100 people man.... random people can walk up pick off your bike and be out... it's a big city and there arent enough bikes in the world...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by sexy
10.1.12 - 3:09 pm
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maybe things just change and evolve.
when i got here in 2009 crank mob was just ending and "everything was changing" and I totally "missed out on the good days"
then i left and came back in 2012 and here we are..
still changing...
still creating "the good ol' days"
crank mas was a blast.
i didn't like the facebook thing cause I wasn't a cool kid and was left out after I moved away and everyone moved to facebook....but then I just went to ONE ride that I really loved from ONE rider I kept in touch with.... Now I have been riding 30 days... have 50 new rider friends and am part of all of the groups. it's not that hard. I'm glad I don't have to worry about 17 year old wannabe gangster kids causing shit. That shit sucks. You try controlling a teenager...
when i was younger I saw so many problems with the rider community...
then I got older and realized the community was happy and thriving.
it was me with the issue.
i don't go on rides with cops. I feel like it supports their presence and gives the impression that I feel safe. I don't feel safe. I don't go on rides with cops.
I must admit after 2+ years I find it amazing we haven't come to some understanding and truce with them. Or learned how to ride in the right lane.
I don't know who else I am going to call when I get hit by an aggressive driver. forest ranger?
this thread is cute, but how about you all come on a ride? I can give you some good suggestions - I hate shady, difficult, or unspoken for rides. I'm too paranoid to go on a ride I don't know the leader
nothing is changing and everything is changing.
welcome to life.
brittany10.1.12 - 3:40 pm
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I never had any problems with this site, it served it's purpose well enough, seems to be "advanced" enough to do it's job. But then again I don't have a TV, cell phone, or a facebook page so perhaps my caveman mind is easily impressed.
Unless someone is willing to step up and do better, there's really no grounds for criticism.
rev106 responding to a
comment by brittany
10.2.12 - 7:11 am
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this site is fine... the rides are fine... you just have to find the ride you like and feel comfortable with...
when all the dust settles and this whole "trendy" cycling is done, then we'll see what we're left with...
I stopped going on group rides because there were too many dangerous riders... and too many people doing stupid things because they were in a group... but maybe it's time to revisit!
adrian10.2.12 - 10:42 am
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MR Website is fine. If yer really scared of police trolling this place, grow a pair. If yer scared of cops on rides, avoid lapdcm. Simple. The largest of the large rides are probly smaller nowadays cuz there are more rides to go on per week as opposed to per month. Even several a nite! Yes the cops crashed a few of the big ones, but they were getting big. That was bound to happen no matter what was said here; over a thousand bikes in one place is bound to attract attention from The Man! Now with all the new Ridazz, and new regular rides, those epic nites of colossal bike raves in a Costco parking lot are bound to return. Like next summer most likely.
JOKER10.2.12 - 10:38 pm
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I think someone needs to go fuck a grandma and stop considering himself part of the counterculture if he owns multiple apartment buildings.
gregb responding to a
comment by indigis
10.3.12 - 12:14 pm
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Fuck the police! No discussion!+I make my living as a landlord=Massive cognitive dissonance
gregb responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
10.3.12 - 2:44 pm
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Yes, very good. Have a cookie. Now, is there something about indigis's comments regarding the police that you disagree with and would like to rebut, or did you just want us all to see how observant you are?
PC responding to a
comment by gregb
10.3.12 - 4:48 pm
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someone call AT's mouf to get rid of the MR facebook.
EASTSIDE10.3.12 - 10:29 pm
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gregb, when I was young and a stupid kid like you, I probably would have thought the same thing about me (but not so idiotic as to publicly voice it.)
to add to the discussion regarding the usability of MR.com, though it's certainly not 2.0, it does the job it's meant to do and more cleanly than Facebook for supporting a community.
did someone actually mistake me for allan (user1). That's funny... someone who knows me doesn't remember me and someone else who I don't know, knows all about me. btw, i'm not fucking a grandmother anymore. now i'm only fucking a mother. gregb, please make note of that in your stalker journal.
indigis
indigis responding to a
comment by gregb
10.3.12 - 11:05 pm
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Yeah. I know who you are, Craig. Long time no see.
I was just talking about Rev. Yoser Whon himself... I know he's still lurking on this shit.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by indigis
10.4.12 - 12:19 am
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