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This is very unfortunate, but I have to say that it was just a matter of time before it happened. If you're going to participate in an event like this, you're assuming the risk of getting seriously injured or killed. And what will happen if a rider in one of these alleycats hits a pedestrian in a crosswalk at speed, god forbid a child or pregnant woman?
While I certainly would agree that our laws unfairly favor car traffic over bicycles, I just can't condone these races, and I don't see them as being in any way related to the fight for cyclists' rights to use public streets.
that style of allycat is really dangerous too. They weren't doing it as a scavanger hunt with checkpoints, but as a point-to-point where there was a pack and people had to take extra risks to gain an advantage. from what people on other forums were saying, he was leading, the pack slowed down at the light and he ran it at full speed.
checkpoint allycats are actually kinda chill; you barely see the other racers because everyone takes their own route.
what happens when a cyclist hits a pedestrian? i can tell you i've seen a pretty good run down at about 20mph. not going to name names. but a dude walking with a Super Big Gulp was run down in a crosswalk a few months back.
what happened?
his Big Gulp flew 20 feet and and he was leveled to his ass. the cyclist crashed pretty good as well. both were okay.
I didn't want to be the first to say it. But if you take the risk in order to win these races, you take the risk of injury or death. I have participated in a couple, they are fun, accelerating and dangerous as hell, if you take the risk to be first.. Everybody who participates in them, know dam well, that you are taking some possible risk to be first. Thats the way it goes. To Argue, that this ain't his own fault is pretty silly, and unrealistic. He knew, as well everybody racing knew what the risk where. As ubrayo2 always said, "lets do it for the glory" and that is exactly what these races are about. The Glory.
My condolence to the Racer's family and friends.
To all Alleycat participants, may good will, skill, and luck be with you.
studiodrome:
i was going to mention that incident. it was actually pretty hilarious how his plastic big gulp cup flew into the air, but not so cool that the cyclist who hit him (who was at fault) didn't apologize. that really made me feel pretty bad.
it sucks that someone died, but the guy who was quoted as saying "bikes don't kill people, cars kill people" is an idiot. when you run a red light you know exactly what risks you're taking. and if you're an experienced cyclist you know exactly where you should be looking for danger at every intersection, especially if you're breaking laws (which i do all the time).
in this case, i actually feel worse for the suv driver. that poor guy/girl is going to have to live with the fact that he/she killed someone just because they took a stupid risk. that sucks. if you don't think so, imagine if it was your own mom/dad/sister/brother who hit someone who ran a red light.
rudy1 --- hell with the family, imagine if you hit someone like that.
the non-sense feelings you would go through. I drive too much these days, and the thought has gone through my head more then once. I think I sub-consciously do that, with the hope it keeps me more aware and cautious.
Dingo --- that is exactly what I was thinking when you I read your post.
i completely agree with that. it sucks when someone dies, but that dude ran the light. drivers need to be responsible for their vehicles, but they also need to be responsible for their actions. you run the red.... its your fault
I just got a hunch. Sometimes when producers are editing newsclips a certain way, and sliced sound bites and videos with other related topic, but not the exact same story, they can create a false reality. They can make it look like someone is talking about a certain incident, but they are actually talking in generalizations. It can create a false impression on what is being said.
This broadcast make it sound like this guy, Alex Wilson is blaming the driver of the SUV for being at fault. I bet you that they where talking to him about laws in general, and most possibly not talking about what happen to the guy who got killed. It looks and sound like, they sliced it in to make it sound like he was talking about this incident in particular. They might have even interviewed this guy, before the death occurred, and had stored footage (highly unlikely in this situation).
Watch it again.
I think we might have been fooled.
Chuck Goudie, first claims that "those who defend Alley cats say, it is car drivers who need to be more careful". They are not saying that when you are in a Alley Cat, that car drivers need to be more careful. Many of us have participated in Alleycats, and I don't think any one of us would say that cars need to be more careful when we are breaking laws during races. We would all say that car drivers need to be more careful while we are on the road with them, in general, especially when we are riding on the road with cars. It is two different things.
The broadcast then talks about all the illegal and dangerous aspects of Alleycat races, they then talk about how the race approached the intersection where Matt Lynch runs the light and is hit by the SUV.
Then they introduce Alex Wilson as a friend of Matt Lynch, Alex says "to blame a victim for dieing such a tragic death is an injustice" he says more, this is followed by a sense from Grey Antomny shows a near accident with a ped in Seattle.
Alex never specifically refers to this incident in particular, in what he is sayingt. Sounds like he is talking about this incident, but it is not specific.
I'm going to try to find some Chicago websites, and I bet you they are saying the same thing that I'am saying, on bike forums in Chicago. I would think you who frequent lafixed.com might have some better sources for links to Chicago site.
That's a good analysis sexy, but what if the SUV driver saw the pack but thought to himself "fuck it, I have the right of way, those guys better not enter the intersection or they're dead".
Or, what if the driver was like the typical LA driver completely fucking unaware of anything going on around because once they're in their car they think they are the center of the universe? Or they're distracted to no end by all the personal electronic devices they have in their car?
I may be overly cautious these days in my car or on my bike but I always look both ways at every intersection I enter whether I have green or not. So many cars are running reds to catch signals that I don't feel safe trusting the lights. If I see a car or bike running a light I sure as hell am going to stop. Obviously.
I think that is what Alex is saying. That could have been another car running the light and then the SUV driver would have been just as fucked as the other car. In this case, the SUV driver either didn't see the rider, or the SUV driver didn't care. It's about awareness.
I think it's true to say that everything we do has risks, but think about it: not all risks are equal. Riding a bicycle carries a risk by itself, but that risk is greatly increased by the presence of cars. Even if you're riding safely and legally, you run the riskof being hit by inattentive or careless drivers. I'm sure we've all run red lights at one time or another, either individually or in groups, but it should be apparent that doing that is a HIGH RISK activity.
On another note, I've often felt that if every driver out there had to get on a bicycle at least one day a month, it would completely change their perspective on driving a car. It's easy for drivers to forget that they are operating a potentially lethal piece of machinery.
even IF it wasnt edited into a lie or un-intended meaning by the quoted person.... the fact that they put his opinion in the piece smacks of bias. why does that guy's opinion need to be amplified? i thought his comment in the context of the story comes off as absurd and irresponsible. I run lights all the time and I woul dnever expect a driver to be blamed if I get hit.
"On another note, I've often felt that if every driver out there had to get on a bicycle at least one day a month, it would completely change their perspective on driving a car. It's easy for drivers to forget that they are operating a potentially lethal piece of machinery."
I agree with this 100%. Once someone is subjected to the challenges, we have as cyclists, their perspective will change.
towelie brings up a good point. sooo many drivers and cyclists alike trust the lights completely, which isn't a good habit to get into.
Another example I can give is railroad crossings. My father worked for Southern Pacific as an engineer and brakeman for almost 30 years. The first thing he taught me about trains, is NOT to trust the crossing rails; ALWAYS look both ways.
It's all about accountability. Danger is intrinsic to cycling, we all know this. We put ourselves at risk every time we hop on that bike. Accidents will occur but it is up to us to lessen that risk. By accidents, I mean something that was unavoidable; drunk cyclists running into each other is not an accident. As much as we try, we cannot regulate safety.
"On another note, I've often felt that if every driver out there had to get on a bicycle at least one day a month, it would completely change their perspective on driving a car."
This is so incredibly true. Just yesterday someone opened their door into the bike lane while I was riding in a buddies' car. I pretty much jumped across the center console. Maybe I'm ultra sensitive because someone opened their door into my bike about a week ago. But it's defnitely true that riding a bike makes you more aware when you're in an automobile.
I think it's pretty clear that anytime anyone runs a red light, bad things can happen. If you're doing it while attempting to get to a certain location as fast as possible, odds are even higher that said bad things will happen. I hate running reds and really only don't mind doing it when theres a blocker or it's dead on the roads and I've already slowed and checked the intersection. Even then, if I got smacked, I wouldn't blame the driver at all. My bike, my life, my choice to risk it by doing overly dangerous activities in it.
My condolences and sympathy go out to all those affected.
The guy talking about accountability for your vehicle has a semi-valid point but in regards to this situation, sadly the guy riding the bike should be the one accountable for his own actions. He ran the red, not the other way around. It's a moot point in regards to the events and bringing it up only makes it seem like it's us against the vehicle drivers.
Although this is a typically sensationalized TV news report (like I should be surprised, right?), watching this does at least put a human face on it.
It would be foolish to think that something similar couldn't happen here. I don't read LA Fixed, but I suspect there's a lively discussion about this going on over there.
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