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A NEW RIDE PUT TOGETHER BY THE VENICE BEACH GONDOS! MELLOW PACE, SICK TERRAIN, COOL PEEPS. BYOB.. CHECK OUT STREETFIENDS.COM FOR RIDE UPDATES AND MUCH MORE. PICTURES COMING SOON!
i sure hope whoever's ride this is is just super naive and ignorant about this term.
just in case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetback_(slur)
i'm not the PC police, but the light use of historically hateful words as ride names, without any empowering educational spin, or insightful context is pretty distasteful and ignorant.
And though I have no issue in general with the "word", I do think promoting a ride with such a title really diminishes the integrity that this site aims for....
Clearly there are many who will take offense and for right reason.
I encourage using your imagination... There are many alternates... of which Im sure people here would gladly help creating.
md2 responding to a comment by sciencefriction
08.6.09 - 12:36 pm
i think some people might not want to come to your ride just because they're offended by the name. ultimately, i think you'll be more successful and your ride will be more popular if you choose a ride name that everyone can appreciate.
Wetback Wednesday is the shit! All you haters hate! Don't get offended by our name! We are about the ride and that's it! Come check us out and see what we are all about! Wetbacks out! Gondos
erock responding to a comment by tortuga_veloce
08.6.09 - 12:47 pm
OK OK OK!!! CALM DOWN... EVERYONE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT THIS RIDE IS NOT MEANT TO RACIALLY OFFEND ANYONE!! IF YOU KNEW ANY OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO STARTED THE RIDE YOU WOULD KNOW THIS.. IM GLAD TO KNOW THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE INTERESTED IN KEEPING RACIAL INTEGRITY, HOWEVER THIS RIDE IS NOT FOR THE CONSERVATIVE SOUL. IF YOURE OFFENDED, DONT COME.. THATS THAT. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO CAN HANG, ITS A SICK RIDE.
I WILL POST A MAP OF NEXT WEDNESDAYS RIDE WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS.
___ DO NOT REPLY TO STREETFIENDS.COM! THIS WEBSITE IS ONLY HELPING TO PROMOTE THIS RIDE, OTHER RIDES, AND ALL OTHER TYPES OF BULLSHIT. IF YOU HAVE ANY RIDES OR ART WORK YOU WOULD LIKE TO SUBMIT, GET AT ME!
RIDE ON~
YES. erock is part of the wetback weds!! he,s got enough credentials to where people will think its cool.. jump in the wagon before its too late hippies!
I'm not offended. But is that the best you could come up with?
How does it work?
Take a word that "can" be very offensive and sensitive to people. Find a day of the week that corresponds somehow to that word, hmmmmmmmmmmm? Oh, they both start with a "w".
Cool. Ignore any potential offense on a site that aims for better goals? I understand the sentiments that some might have toward the word... it doesnt bother me. Maybe some take it as a term of endearment, a joke, a fuck you to those who use it offensively (as if we're beyond it). Fine, I'll about it.
But MR can do without it. Its pretty simple. I dont thin Wetback Wednesday is doing more good than bad.
md2 responding to a comment by erock
08.6.09 - 1:02 pm
i think some people might not want to come to your ride just because they're offended by the name. ultimately, i think you'll be more successful and your ride will be more popular if you choose a ride name that everyone can appreciate.
tortuga_veloce
08.6.09 - 3:41 pm
AND TO YOU T_V.. DEFINITELY APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS FOR SOME AND NOT FOR OTHERS. THE PEOPLE THAT CAN HANG CAN HANG, AS FOR THE OTHERS........MAYBE NOT! NO WORRIES
Hang with what? Are you saying, "if you can cope with joining a ride called Wetback Wednesdays, then ride with us"?
i think a ride calander would look very different if:
!@#$? Fridays
The !@#$? Ride
Crackers Crank Mob Ride
Maybe I'm wrong, but posting rides on the site with those titles is not a matter of being able to hang, as if you're just being philosophical about language (at the end of the day they're are symbols and sounds, that we call words), but its a matter of respect.
If MR (the original organizers) gave Los Angeles and beyond, something special like MR... why turn it into something they would never have wanted it to be.... (maybe Im speaking for them). But it seems disrespectful...
And Im not saying any of the members of WW are bad people... I just think the culture has way more to offer than the term "wetback"... this isnt a Chicano studies course, its about riding bikes and having fun...
md2 responding to a comment by streetfiends.com
08.6.09 - 1:15 pm
Im sure that those of you who are planning the ride have the best intentions, but understand that this doesnt come across. As much as racist words enter the common lexicon, they still remind us of police roundups and illegal deportations (operation wetback)
Sure, there is the argument that its better to claim these words for the people they are meant to offend, but the use itself then becomes limited to the race described.
"Wetback wednesdays" or "Beaner Pride" still remind us that our racist society believes that one people is less than another. Some may agree, others will disagree, but youve essentially excluded anyone who has a problem with the word, regardless of the intention.
I hope you give that some thought and ask yourself who would have come to your ride if your choice in naming had been a little wiser--and you can count me among them.
The StreetFiends website looks more about graffiti than anything else. More offensive to some than the name of this ride would be if this ride is all about painting the town. There's a fine line between street art and defacing property. Just better not be any ugly tagging on the ride.
Ok, so what you are saying is that by taking an old offensive racial term and turning it into a fun all inclusive event for people who just want to have fun, you are thereby removing the power of the epithet and turning it into a harmless and meaningless word?
Is that the intention?
If so I do agree that taking the word "wetback" and removing the offensiveness of the original meaning and turning it into something else more constructive and fun, you may be doing everyone a favor.
some people think its degrading. those people won't show up. as a white person, i feel like i'm not going to be welcome on this ride, even if the organizers didnt intend it.
PEOPLE OF ALL RACES ARE WELCOME. JUST BECAUSE STREETFIENDS.COM IS HELPING TO PROMOTE THIS RIDE, AND ALSO CONTAINS GRAFFITI CONTENT DOES NOT MEAN THE TWO COINCIDE. ITS A BLOG SPACE... CHILL OUT GUYS!
While we're cleaning house, let's get rid of all the other words on this site that some may find offensive.
Start with all the cuss words. All refrences to excessive alcohol consumption, drug use, photos of bare chested women and illeagal bike activity.
While we're at it, let's change the name to P.C. Ridazz.
Actually, "ridazz" is misspelled and may teach our younger members to spell words wrong. Better make it "riders".
There. I fell better now.
As a white person I can't possibly even be seen on this ride, based on the possibility that someone will associate me with a ride utilizing that epithet. It's not the best branding I've ever encountered, and the ambiguous hype "this is so cool - this is about more than bike" is just sorta "blah, hype."
Have you considered that the name is getting in the way of your ride?
what you're seeing is people reacting to the name. you can explain your intentions all you want, but you've already given people a reason to make assumptions about what you are doing. if you want to have a successful venice ride, call it something that isnt going to offend people. if you want to be divisive at the expense of the ride itself, by all means...keep calling it WW.
You don't have to be a fucking moron think that language and meaning doesn't exist in a vacuum, and this includes terms like bitch, cunt, and queer. Some extremely fucking smart people believe that, actually. Look at the context. Personally, the only borderline racism I see in this thread is Tomato's comment.
why not? Doesnt bother me one fucking bit... plus MR already has a filter, so I cant type words like !@#$?
Im not about censorship (it has its purpose in certain areas), but if MR said okay to your suggestions (outside of changing the name, that is just not problem at all), I'm curious what your objection would be?
md2 responding to a comment by Creative Thing
08.6.09 - 2:14 pm
I don't think my first comment was super clear...just in case my point did not get accross, let me elucidate: If I start a ride called the Cunt Club, it means one thing. The term cunt is used in a particular context. If some misogynist runs around calling women cunts, it means something completely different. This is the exact same situation. You people getting all morally outraged should really get off your high horses.
Aha - but this language is fairly vacuous, and there is a vacuum of context as well. What's the context? We still don't know. "This ride is gonna be cool" is about all I know now. Contrast this with the heaps of context you've provided for Ladies Night.
Moreover, as we ride around the city, we're not carrying that context with us. When a motorist leans out the window and asks "what ride is this?" because they want to come along, it's gonna be an awkward moment at best when a Rida says "Wetback Wednesdays." Or howabout when I go on the ride, and I recite the name to mexican man who sees us riding down the boardwalk. He'd be in the right to knock me on my ass.
At the very least the ride will be perceived as racist, and received as racist, and it will upset people. Unless that is the purpose of the name - to aggravate - then it's poorly chosen AT BEST.
Its not a high horse at all. AT ALL. And I think you're analytical enough to see it.
1. How do you even know the context of Wetback Weds? What if it was a ride that rode round town beating up mexicans? The context changes, but you would never know unless you RODE THE RIDE (point taken).
2. If I join WW, how would the context arise? That claim is so weird for a bike ride. You have a ride called cunt club, but nothing about it puts the term "cunt" into context. So what is the context?
md2 responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
08.6.09 - 2:25 pm
Actually - I used the term racist, in the post above you.
The context argument is double fail anyway, since this is Los Angeles, which is the poster boy for white privilege abusing mexican labor. Anywhere you go outside this tiny bike club that's the dominant context.
You're arguing how it should be, but this is how it is - people will be pissed by it, someone will get yelled at, someone will likely get their ass kicked, someone's feelings will be hurt, and nothing positive will come of it.
I understand what you're saying. I don't mind barrelling into situations like that headfirst, though. I feel like if I don't, then the racists (or mysogynists, or whomever, depending on the context) have complete control over certain categories of language...and it's not like it's going to go away any time soon, because those jackoffs aren't going away anytime soon. So I think it's completely valid to use it more widely - in different, not hateful contexts - to diffuse (change, play with) meaning.
Well tough - not every ride is an evangelistic approach to reclaiming bigoted language. Unless you're gonna stop and put the time in to explain when you use that kind of language, then you're not exactly accomplishing your goal. In fact, since it will be perceived as racist, you're amplifying the bigoted use of the language.
IM AFRAID TO SAY THAT ALL THIS COMMOTION WILL ONLY FURTHER ENCOURAGE THE FOUNDERS OF THIS RIDE TO PUSH IT EVEN HARDER.. TAKE A LOOK AT HOW MUCH RESPONSE ITS GOTTEN WITHIN A FEW HOURS. THEN TAKE A LOOK AT THE "VALLEY GIRLS JUST WANNA HAVE FUN" THREAD. BEEN UP FOR A COUPLE WEEKS AND BARELY ANY ATTENTION. EVEN NEGATIVE PUBLICITY IS STILL PUBLICITY. ALL YOU TRUE HATERS (MD2) WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF JUST IGNORING THE THREAD ALL TOGETHER..
yes, you can use it more widely to diffuse the meaning, but by doing so you are reinforcing the use of racist terms along racial lines.
white people arent allowed to use the word "wetback"
white people arent allowed to use the word "N****A"
trying to diffuse the word doesnt remove the original meaning or erase its history. when you say "wetback," you're diluting the word. if you're going to dilute a bad thing, it's still a bad thing that has been diluted.
and if you think you're going to reclaim a word from racist people, do you think the word "wetback" means anything other than "subhuman" when someone really means it?
Classic example. There is now an entire focus of study in higher institutions known as queer theory. Nonetheless, if I was in a bar and a group of people were making anti-gay comments and used the term queer in that context, I would consider that hateful.
sitting behind my desk in my office aint al that bad when i have intersting stuff like this to read.some of my coworkers walked into my office and i showed them the thread and they dont find it offensive at all.they are anglo-saxophones .man, 2 more hours till i get outta this suit and off i go for a ride ..
hey AT when you gonna invite a dingo over to the LAB?
mandingo responding to a comment by Alex Thompson
08.6.09 - 2:53 pm
Your response to MD2 said that you don't mind entering such situations because you FEEL that language should not be owned by bigots.
1) YOU don't mind. Most everyone else who is out for ride may mind. Particularly since riding a bike in LA is already putting yourself on the line in a big way, maybe others don't want any additional liability.
2) In a broad context, how you FEEL is irrelevant to how you attack issues of bigotry. I FEEL very angry about how LA treats cyclists, but if I reacted the way my emotions dictated I should I'd do more harm than good. Effective activism, for me, is an exercise in patience and emotional control.
3) You still haven't addressed how bigoted language is received. If you are using bigoted language and then rolling on by - for the viewer what differentiates the language from typical racist use? If there is no differentiation you are now amplifying hate speech.
4) Have you considered that you are more inclined to barrel into such situations because you are far less likely to get your ass kicked than a man? That's a truth - I will get punched the fuck out if I say some of these things. We can go on the ride together, brazenly announce the name of the ride to strangers, and see who loses more teeth. Afterward you can ruminate on the feminism aspects of Wetback Wednesdays.
@tortuga_veloce I would never say that men aren't allowed to use the words cunt or bitch or trick or ho, and that only women are allowed to use them to diffuse meaning. Again, it depends on context.
ok, now tell the whole world so that nobody gets a bad first impression.
tortuga_veloce
responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
08.6.09 - 5:53 pm
@t_v I don't even know what that means.
@AlexThompson I have to get back to work and I'll respond later...although I'm getting a little bored with this argument because you and I are never going to see eye to eye.
im not saying you shouldnt do your ride. i hope i didnt give you hat impression. im just saying you'll have more fun if fewer people are discouraged by the ride name. words mean different things to different people. it's just something to keep in mind.
anyway, i'm at work and have nothing better to do, so keep that in mind as well.
Also, this discussion is stupid. If you don't like it don't go to the ride, there's plenty of other things other people do on MR I don't agree with. So don't participate.
steph responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
08.6.09 - 3:03 pm
I dont think racist have control of categorizes of language. I think language is more complex than giving a group of people control (unless you've read the PSA thread)... there are hierarchies in grammar lovers, but racists cant control language...fuck they can just find a new word.
Certain words die off. Sure people kick around the "N" word (cant write it), but how often do you hear people saying "coon"? rarely does that word come up. Why? Why dont we advocate the diversification of implementing that word?
Should we take all words which once had (or had their origins in, or had an impact with a) hateful stint in this world, and blow them up to the point of absurdity? Well, maybe, but it seems like we're giving more love to the past, rather than just letting it die.
Timesarechanging constantly reminds me how much i suck balls, which I dont see as offensive, I mean, what if he said, "MD2 you suck major tits"?
Insults are meaningless to some, but its not fair to assume they are meaningless to everyone. Suppose someone who just loved sucking balls read TAC's comment and asked, "why would sucking balls be way of offending someone?" Some love sucking balls...according to TAC im one of them... okay, I guess its better than sucking non-major balls.
I dont get it...
Maybe Im wrong but MR leans toward something better than "Wetback Wednesdays"
Its fine... whatever, Im with Borfo... do what the fuck you want... its your community... in all honesty I think MR is great, but not because its so progressive because it can "hang" with WW.
md2 responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
08.6.09 - 3:07 pm
@AlexThompson I have to get back to work and I'll respond later...although I'm getting a little bored with this argument because you and I are never going to see eye to eye.
Ms. Stephanie
You're right - as long as you say "it depends on context", provide no context, ignore the existing context that dominates Los Angeles, and fail to dispense with the issue that this will be perceived as racist, we're not going anywhere. As long as you advocate evangelistic behavior for the general participant, when the ride appears to have no such purpose, we don't have a discussion.
Jeez, you guys really got your panties in a bunch about this. It's fucking 2009, in Los Angeles - why would anyone think this was meant as a derogatory statement?
Have any of you ever heard of the notion of removing the power of a term by making fun?
I'm actually very surprised about all the fuss. I didn't blink twice when I saw the name. What's with all this P.C. fussing? Just get over it already. It's not such a big deal as your making it.
I think it's pretty obvious that this ride is targeting the Latino bike community. I think the organizer is obviously not being racist in context, but rather making levity of such a title. (e.g. The Self Hating Jew Ride)
Get over it. And don't rccomend you go on the ride because you might get you poor kitty teeth knocked out. And we here at MR don't want that to happen.
IYM.com
Joe Borfo responding to a comment by Alex Thompson
08.6.09 - 3:15 pm
if someone wants to reclaim the word, then he/she should be conscious that they are reclaiming it. as long as its intentional and meaningful, then by all means call yourself what you want.
i for one would not be proud exclaiming i'm a dogeater in front of my mom and dad knowing that they were spit on and called that when they first immigrated here, unless i was willing to sit down and explain to them how i am redefining the word.
if you're not gonna be conscious about it, and not willing to own it 100% , then you're just gonna make your mom cry.
Im Mexican, but if we we're really as progressive as everyone is trying to claim, then lets see some white kids start the "wetback ride" or the "ni**ga ride".
Make t-shirts and fuck Venice, ride through Highland Park, East Los, and....
In fact, I want to see how much this has progressed. I want to see group of kids who are only white, do this ride, chanting, "When I say Wednesday, you say wetbacks".
Thats where we are, right? Right? Or is that where we need to be? Will all the organizers of WW be just as okay with the ride? Honestly??? I hang with enough people to know... there will be cause for whoa, wait... you cant do THAT. Equally, Im with the organizers in that I dont see anything wrong with the ride title, except that it doesnt belong on MR (fine line? maybe, but if that what MR wants, then so be it).
Mexicans starting a wetback ride is not progressive... I would ride it, but as I said... I dont think its worth putting on MR...(yet?).
md2 responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
08.6.09 - 3:24 pm
You guys make me wanna go to the ride just cuz you're hating.
Just realize this - everyone has the choice to decide whether or not to be offended. And if a person gets offended, it's because they choose to be offended by it.
I'm assuming the organizer is Latino. If so, then it's not that inappropriate because, to me, it rings a sort of political social message. Ever hear of dark humor? Also, it's not that big a deal to me.
Otherwise, it's a stupid idea. I'm not Latino, even though half of my family is. And, I would not feel comfortable riding this because of the name - But then that's just my problem.
this isnt about racism... its about ego.i bet all the people offended have never swam across the border therefor not fitting the term. its your ego thats feelings get hurt... loose ur ego and the world would be a better place
j4ybo responding to a comment by kryxtanicole
08.6.09 - 3:35 pm
Im fact... Make a t-shirt, wear it for a few weeks throughout Los Angeles... Go grab a t-shirt of Nas' "the Ni** tape" and roll through stocker and Crenshaw.. fuck it just walk along Adams... tell me Im hating.
Its definitely not hating... I'm mexican, and I understand what it means (experienced) being called a "wetback", "beaner" and the like... worse is being called it in white neighborhoods, by young white kids. As a kid I would spend summers in West Covina, and I was one of the few brown kids chilling at the park. White kids would just say shit to be mean.... but when I chased them down, they ran chanting "beaner" and such... when you catch up, damn, the apologizes flow easy... seems like they knew what they meant. Think they're parents were mad at them for getting beat up? No sir, I was just a punk brown boy beating up their kid that would never use such language
Dont call it hating... I know why the organizers are doing the Wetback Ride. I think its good in that sense. My arguing has really only been about posting it on MR
More power to them... I think the ride should occur within the latino context... but I honeslty dont think its good for MR's calendar.
md2 responding to a comment by kryxtanicole
08.6.09 - 3:39 pm
OKAY. I've rethought this, and I do think that there may be a level of ignorance involved with the use of that title. However, I had first taken it to possibly be a statement / dark humor thing and was cool with it. Either way, it's the person's choice who created it and he/she is just going to have to deal with whatever comes of it. bye.
WE SHOULD LET THE ADMIN FOR MR DECIDE WHETHER THEY ARE OKAY WITH THIS ON THEIR SITE. IF THEY AREN'T, THEN THEY HAVE MY BLESSING TO DISMISS THE THREAD AND WE'LL PROMOTE THE RIDE ELSEWHERE. REGARDLESS, THERE WILL BE AN "ALL RACES WELCOME" RIDE EVERY WEDNESDAY NIGHT MEETING AT THE IN&OUT ON WASHINGTON AND GLENCOE AT 7:30PM
Everybody has a sacred cow. Even these kids. The fun part is finding out what it is. Then inventing a ride around it. Tha being said I love the name! Elmeromero.com taco tuesdays bc 4life!!!!
MR is one the most diverse, most welcoming/inclusive events in Los Angeles. Racism, has never presented itself on any ride I have been on. We should strive to promote the core values of MR, and while I never for one minute, assumed that WW was a stab at racism, bigotry, or offense; I do believe, and it is only my opinion, that naming weekly rides that can SO EASILY be perceived as racist, offensive (culturally insensitive), should be kept from the ride calander. Because the fact is, it is more important to have fun and encourage others to ride, rather than defend the facts from fiction.
Doesnt MR have enough to deal with in regard to police, cars, rider safety, so that as ride organizers you can promote the fun and diversity of MR, without bringing more to the table to be explained?
Im leaving work early...
Kenter Trails... whoops... peace and may we all keep discussing and taking serious the complexities of race and promoting diversity and understanding at the same time.
md2 responding to a comment by streetfiends.com
08.6.09 - 4:21 pm
All I have to say is that unless you're Mexican (or latino), you really don't have a place in criticizing the usage of the term Wetback. It's like telling a black guy not to use the N-Word, or telling me that it's wrong to say Ching-Chong-Wing-Wong when I order Orange Chicken.
I personally don't see a problem with the name, especially knowing that the organizers are Mexican. That should tell you something, i.e. context. You guys are smarter than that, but then again, some people have to open their fucking moufs as if they are entitled to it. Well, you're not.
If I were a wetback, I would definitely NOT go on this ride for fear of the Migra, INS, ICE or Homeland Security throwing me in an unmarked van and sending me back to south of the border.
In fact, as an attorney, I'm going to offer some free legal advice to ALL undocumented residents and recommend not attending this ride.
Ok, let's start from the top. I never said that they are representatives of the Mexican Community, I didn't even imply it. What I did imply, was that they're Mexicans, and they very well know and understand the implications of using that term. So if they choose to use it, that's their prerogative. I also implied that it's not our place to criticize that kind of thing, especially knowing those facts. Whether they're being ignorant, stupid or progressive, it's not our call.
It was YOU, user1, who implied that they're representatives of the Mexican Community as a Whole. I returned by saying that, No, they're NOT, BUT, they're at-least more of a representative than YOUR Italian ass. That's what I said.
But, then you took it as me saying you're doo doo and they're not. I don't even know where that comes from.
Regardless, part of it is true! You are DOO DOO! I don't know about those guys, and that's not the point. So that's not what I was saying, but if you want me to confirm it, I just did.
Not only are you doo doo, but you're also a dum dum.
A couple years ago, a friend of mine proposed a ride where we would wear white shirts and ties a la LDS. He was a member of LDS and thought it would really be funny. He was also riding in LA long before MR became a phenomenon, old CM guy. We proposed the ride to Don, since this was post Skull but still the only ride was 2nd Friday. He turned it down saying it would offend a lot of people.
They are making decisions that reflect on their race, are they not? With that comes responsibility, like it or not. So I made the assumption that they must be spokespersons for their community. Sounds to me like they are. :-) But this reflects on them, probably negatively by their own people would be my guess. Of course it would matter who you're polling. And as was pointed out on this thread, not everyone is going to see the debate on the merits of this being posted as is. Someone just scanning the page sees just "Wetback Wednesday" and thinks MR tolerates racism. Then it becomes everyone's business. Furthermore people that find it objectionable aim their objections, and or hatred towards us. Again, then it becomes our business. And I never argued that they shouldn't use this derogatory term or not. I am questioning if we should tolerate it here or not.
And fuck you questioning me about my Italian roots and whether I'm a proper representative of the Italian culture or not! At least I'm not going around degrading my heritage. Which is the only thing you know about this people! Speaking of which, how come I never see you wearing a lei? Why aren't YOU being a proper representative of your culture? How come YOU aren't insulting it? Afraid you might get a beat down?
You don't know where the childish name "doo doo head" came from? It's in response to your stupid reply, I'll post it in full,
"Well, THEY are more than YOU are. That's for sure."
You go insult me and call me less than these guys. These guys that the only thing you know about them is that they insult their own race! Basically all you is avoid answering the criticism about your post and just calling me names instead. And to that I said FUCK YOU TOO!!!!! And thanks for making late for a ride shithead!!!
User1 responding to a comment by the reverend dak
08.6.09 - 6:50 pm
Allen, did you even read what I wrote? I thought I elaborated it for you. Did I question YOUR Italian heritage, no. I pointed out that you're Italian, NOT Mexican, which was my point, that THEY are more MEXICAN, than YOU are. That's what I said. Geezus christ. Sorry if I offended you. Sorry if you're late for your ride, that's your fault not mine. You didn't have to reply to this stupid thread. You called yourself a doo doo head, not me. But I agreed with you.
okay fine WW name will be discussed tonight with the originators!
it was our intention to creat a mass of possitivity but oviously the name alone atracts negativity (wich was never the intention) it was just something clever and silly. the name will remain till we discus this tonight. and yess we did want to be like taco tuesdays ...... a RIDE just like all the other rides. our full intention for the WW was to bring people that love L.A and love rideing their bikes together in a event where both are celebrated!!
thanks for the feed back both positive and negative!! we will work on this
by the way happy birthday kile!! and thanks to streetfiends for the suport
I'm in Portland. So I'm not gonna read this whole thread but someone please tell me that this ride name changed. No matter what the reason behind th name it's not going in the calendar. Change the name or it's deleted. I don't care what your intention is. It not a good look.
Roadblock responding to a comment by ruinedbyidiots
08.7.09 - 10:02 am
@Roadblock I really, really, really, really disagree with you. Really really really. REALLY. Please allow the name on the calendar. To not allow the ride name in the calendar would be the most paternalistic and patronizing move you could possibly make. The white majority brands people with the term, and then the white majority tells the same people that they can't use it? THAT is offensive.
"To not allow the ride name in the calendar would be the most paternalistic and patronizing move you could possibly make"
Wow... you're worse than me...
Is that really the "most" paternalistic patronizing move Roadblock could make?
No one is saying "they" (thank you Stephanie) cant use the word... "they" can. The issue is whether a ride with such a title is appropriate and or even worth putting on MR
md2 responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
08.7.09 - 10:59 am
imagine someone who is checking out the website for the first time. is this really the image you want to put forward? people dont understand the context until its explained to them and why would a new person stick around for the explanation?
It sounds to me like people are saying "they" can't use it - not allowing it on the calendar is paramount to that.
I actually tried hard not to say "they" in my post, but I'm not sure how I could have written it differently. I'm not being told I can't post Wetback Wenesday, someone else is.
I think you're missing a larger point... but maybe I am...
Lets just start with a pretty obvious example:
Your child's kindergarten teacher sends a flier home, it states, "join your kids for a day at the beach--we're calling it--wetback Wednesday"
1. What does going to the beach have to do with Wetbacks?
2. Is the above the appropriate place to diversify the "word"?
Also, I would be interested in knowing if you think we should dig up all words that share similarities to the term "wetback" and make a ride out of it... just to exemplify a kind of freedom (or whatever you're suggesting is so powerful in posting a ride titled Wetback Wednesdays).
md2 responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
08.7.09 - 11:28 am
Whoa, I thought Roadblock just ran a website about bike rides out of the kindness of his heart. I didn't realize he was making far-reaching decisions on behalf of the white majority now too.
DJwheels responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
08.7.09 - 11:35 am
@md2 I don't think your example is instructive. A child's kindergarten teacher is not the same the ride organizers and a kindergarten class is not the same as a forum for similarly-minded people.
And I'm not saying we should dig anything up - I'm saying I support the people who chose that name and I support them putting it on the calendar.
Back to my cunt club example - If Roadblock removed a ride I called Cunt Club from the calendar because he and tortuga veloce and Alex Thompson and you thought using the term cunt would give the wrong impression, I would be extremely offended. Men have historically used the term disparagingly toward women, and to have men tell me I can't use it the way I want to use it would truly offend me. I'm looking at it from that perspective.
@md2 I wouldn't mind continuing this conversation in person if we're on a ride together. If Roadblock has made up his mind, there's nothing I can do about it I suppose, and really no reason for me to keep trying. But I have enjoyed my exchanges with you in this thread.
i think there is a larger issue of whether it's ok for one group or another to use a word, but that's really immaterial when we're discussing whether that word should be used for a ride post on a website that claims to be:
-Non Confrontational
AND NOT:
-Mean Spirited
-Political
-Non-inclusive
-Abrasive -Protest
At work, I cant post a ride titled Wetback Wednesdays. I dont feel less empowered.
The overall question is this:
Is this website "the place" for a ride titled "Wetback Wednesday"?
Maybe streetfiends (is that the name?) website is "the place".
I honestly think Stephanie is smart enough to understand that though the former question is the debate, and it is not about some kind of white supremacy issue.
Let the MR community decide...
we should have one of those thumbs up, thumbs down option to vote on... and you can only vote once (per username).
If MR is pro Wetback Weds... then so be it.
If not, then... take it elsewhere, no one is saying you cant...
Plus Im still waiting for the Cunt Club ride
md2 responding to a comment by snowcone
08.7.09 - 11:45 am
i think that the usage of derogatory terms by the group at which they are directed is a way of saying: "oh really? big fucking deal. look i'll use it too! it's just a fucking word!"
maybe we should keep the name as a way of showing our devotion to freedom
snowcone responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
08.7.09 - 11:45 am
the example is supposed to illustrate an extreme, but highlight the fact that in some areas, the title is inappropriate.
That is the question here. The analogy is not intended (just as all analogies dont) to be an apples to apples comparison.
Why not just tell us this:
Why do you think the Midnight Ridazz website is the place to promote a ride titled "WW"?
Maybe your reason(s) will change our minds. But positing some obscure notion of white superiority.... I mean, fuck, Im Mexican, brown,,, whatever.... and I dont want MR site to post the ride... I guess we're in a little pickle...
md2 responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
08.7.09 - 11:50 am
Like I said in an earlier post... if some of you are so progressive... then like some other rides, make a t-shirt, and ride around with it.
But please, dont just hit West LA. Ride through other areas.
Make a "Ni**er ride" t-shirt and ride down Crenshaw, make a left on Stocker, and just start hanging out... explain your context, explain how its just a word, explain, explain, explain...
Because the first person you run into who wants you to explain why the fuck youre wearing that shirt.... sorry dude, I know people who wont have it.
Plus, if youre not Mexican, maybe Im just completely missing it... why would you want to join Wetback Wednesdays? Would you feel comfortable shouting (like other rides) the ride name?
"When I say Wednesday, you say, Wetbacks"... trust me... it wont go over well, buddy
md2 responding to a comment by snowcone
08.7.09 - 12:00 pm
Plato's the Republic presents a critical view of democracy through the narration of Socrates: "Democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequaled alike."[71] In his work, Plato lists 5 forms of government from best to worst. Assuming that the Republic was intended to be a serious critique of the political thought in Athens, Plato argues that only Kallipolis, an aristocracy lead by the unwilling philosopher-kings (the wisest men) is a just form of government. The other forms of government place too much focus on lesser virtues, and degenerate into each other from best to worst, starting with Timocracy, which overvalues honour. Then comes Oligarchy, overvaluing wealth, which is followed by Democracy. In Democracy, the oligarchs, or merchant, are unable to wield their power effectively and the people take over, electing someone who plays on their wishes, by throwing lavish festivals etc. However, the government grants the people too much freedom, and the state degenerates into the fourth form, Tyranny/mob rule.
The Founding Fathers of the United States intended to address this criticism by combining democracy with republicanism. A constitution would limit the powers of what a simple majority can accomplish.[72]
would anyone even care if we were to lose current members of the n!gger thursdays ride?
this is an extreme example, but what if somehow this spiraled out of control into the KKK ride?
or the kristallnacht ride?
you keep talking about our freedom's being attack.
but what if you thought of it, not as our freedom getting attacked but more like,
"dude this just in fucking pure bad taste"
when it comes down to it, the name is offensive to latinos who find it offensive.
so you talk about all this freedom jazz but what about our latino friends out there who have been called a wetback before and find it fucking offensive?
idk,
growing up, i've been called a chink before. and it fucking sucks.
and if someone started chink wednesdays, i'd be fucking pissed.
fist fight pissed.
KiMS1 responding to a comment by snowcone
08.7.09 - 12:04 pm
I doubt Roadblock went through the rigors of qualifying to be philosopher king. Plus he would be too young.
Everyone should read the Republic, its really fun and interesting. Plus some of you guys will enjoy being able to wrestle naked with other men. Sorry, women, Plato really isnt sure if its a good thing to let you wrestling with men (naked)...
Thats my main objection to Platonism.
md2 responding to a comment by tortuga_veloce
08.7.09 - 12:17 pm
let's be honest here:
the majority of ridazz aren't going to understand or care about all this intellectual masturbation.
if some non-mexican hipster kids wanted to start calling themselves wetbacks because they said midnight ridazz said it was ok and cool, and then ride through echo, huntington or highland park i say go ahead and let them.
Yeah, it took something RETARDED from you to dig out my worst. I'm with KiMS1 and md2 on this one now, at least they know what they're talking about. You, on the other hand, can only spew out 4th grade arguments and irrelevant quotes. What are you, 12?
Don't bother replying, I'm not going to read this thread any longer.
YEY - I'm gonna liberate Mexicans by telling them what they can call themselves.
That's brilliant.
I'm sure glad you social liberators wern't around to tell Dave Chappelle when it was and wasn't OK to lampoon ridiculous racial stereotypes.
On the other hand ... what a bunch a fakers. We know they aren't "wetbacks" because that slur hasn't been used in ernest since the 80's. Now its just ridiculous. I guess thats the point.
I think thats why they are using it.
Besides we arn't even a minority anymore.
What Midnight Ridazz Isn't: the name your ride puhleese.
this is not a road to go down. MR is for the public and regardless of whether its a joke or not, the word is offensive to many people. it's not a good look.
You of course are welcome to promote your ride if you find another name for it, and if you choose not to change the name there are other websites available to promote the ride.
you could always change the name to "Mojado Monday's"
most of the people offended by WW's don't know what mojado means so you could roll on with your same spirt and even keep the catchy alliteration if you change the day.
If people give you stress just tell em you like your burritos enchilada style.
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Ridazz Roulette!
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YES. erock is part of the wetback weds!! he,s got enough credentials to where people will think its cool.. jump in the wagon before its too late hippies!
oh good... another ride i can ignore.
this is not CHIDO CHIDO!!!
I don't see why all of this is necessary.
ima start a ride called Zapatasos... we gonna go around throwing shoes at people... hahahahahahah...troll
Strays always have a way of slipping back in here. 
or you could call it VeniceWeds and use the Volkswagen logo. of course, that might offend holocaust survivors. 
this would be an interesting conversation to have in person, and not online at work, although i'd really love to continue this some time. 
eat a dong.
flyin the flag
crack'in wednesday's
Oh, so you are on "Ze Master Side"? I see.
ill take "reasons to stay east of the 405" for $200, alex.
THIS IS GONE FAR ENOUGH 
Not on this planet.
awwww...
HAHA!
you could always change the name to "Mojado Monday's"