I must be the only Sierra Club member on these boards, huh?
:-(
User102.26.09 - 11:35 am
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fuck those evil fuckers. they hate bikes. this is just a ruse.
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 11:41 am
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lots of good info there, thanks for posting!
SKIDMARCUS02.26.09 - 12:20 pm
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I'm down with the Sierra Club...my dad hates them though because they bitch about people riding motorcycles in the desert.
la duderina02.26.09 - 12:22 pm
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I wish far more people were Sierra Club members. I've been one since '92.
For those that like their news a little more MTV style, there's RAW from Sierra Club.
RAW: Uncooked Truth, Beyond Belief
Really, it does help politically when you have a block of voters like the SC.
User102.26.09 - 1:11 pm
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I bitch about them because they support turning urban areas into wilderness.
The proposed Magic Mountain (not Six Flags) wilderness area in the San Gabriels has an asphalt road and former Nike site within it's borders. Fuck that. Enough is enough. Soon enough only hikers and equestrians will be able to enjoy our forests. This area so does not meet the criteria of the Wilderness Act of 1964 that it's absurd.
Talk about elitism. User1's support of the Sierra Club is the only reason I hate the dude. hahahahahah
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 1:30 pm
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Greg, wtf? You hate the wilderness or something? I support keeping it wild. That's fighting to keep it for all the creatures that live there. Not for your fucking chainsaws and your red neck 4 wheel drive truck!
User102.26.09 - 2:17 pm
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I guess you guys don't ride mountain bikes, nor have disabled friends.
The Wilderness Act of 1964:
"an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain."
This hardly applies to a small mountain in the San Gabriels where you see nothing but the suburban sprawl of the Santa Clarita Valley, and that includes a Nike Site and an asphalt road, now does it?
I wholeheartedly support the Wilderness Act as it applies to areas that have been relatively untrammeled by man. But, WTF, should we designate the Sepulveda Basin as a Wilderness Area, or the Hollywood Hills? Just so we can keep the miners and 4-wheelers out? There has to be another solution.
So, yeah,
FUCK THE SIERRA CLUB, THEY'RE ELITIST ASSHOLES WHO SHOULD KEEP THEIR FOCUS ON THE SIERRAS.
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 2:49 pm
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"That's fighting to keep it for all the creatures that live there."
You should have fought against development in the Santa Clarita valley and the building of Hwy 14. That would have done more to help the creatures than preventing a few 4 wheelers from a small mountain. It's a land grab for elitist assholes, simple as that.
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 2:51 pm
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Fucking redneck, I knew there was something I hated about you.
NewsFlash, there isn't a square foot of land in the US that hasn't seen any presence of man. Give back to the creatures what we've been taking from them. Take up knife throwing or something instead of cutting down trees.
User102.26.09 - 2:56 pm
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I just wrote Boxer, Feinstein, and my rep Brad Sherman to turn the Salton Sea into a wilderness area. Next year we're going to have to hike in from Palm Springs! And we won't be able to bring our bikes!
Fucking treehugger!
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 3:00 pm
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Magic Mountain isn't a fucking urban area. Put down the bong.
PC02.26.09 - 3:03 pm
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I'm not a member. I get the magazine through work.
Joe Borfo02.26.09 - 3:04 pm
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"The former Nike missile site"...I know its not whats meant but Nike Missiles would be really cool.
PIZZAWOLF02.26.09 - 3:06 pm
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Oh boo hoo, I won't be able to enjoy a small patch of the outdoors with air conditioning and XM radio anymore. This is a human rights violation.
PC02.26.09 - 3:12 pm
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"Magic Mountain isn't a fucking urban area."
It doesn't meet the criteria of the Wilderness Act. There needs to be a balance, areas on the edge of suburbia with several manmade structures are not wilderness.
Where would you stop designating wilderness? Downtown LA?
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 3:21 pm
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"Oh boo hoo, I won't be able to enjoy a small patch of the outdoors with air conditioning and XM radio anymore. This is a human rights violation."
I can't enjoy it on a bicycle even though there's a fucking road right through the middle of that. Irony, pure and simple.
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 3:22 pm
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It's plain and simple. We give the land back to the creatures we took it from. There's no one living on the land, yeah? So we keep it wild.
Keep your red neck ass in LA and enjoy the weirdness.
User102.26.09 - 3:27 pm
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My Rep Brad Sherman just sent me this in reply to my email to him:
"I just added Slab City to the S22 Omnibus Lands Bill cuz you're such a dick. Good luck getting there for Midnight Ridazz Salton Sea 2010."
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 3:29 pm
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NO FUCKING WAY!
SEE! IT'S ALL BRAD'S FAULT!
Joe Borfo02.26.09 - 3:31 pm
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"We give the land back to the creatures we took it from. There's no one living on the land, yeah? So we keep it wild."
So, User1, you think we shouldn't be able to ride bikes anywhere but in the city? That's pretty fucked up.
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 3:32 pm
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"SEE! IT'S ALL BRAD'S FAULT! "
Brad Sherman is a good Brad, just like the various Brads in Midnight Ridazz.
Brad Baron is a dick, though.
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 3:34 pm
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Not at all, that's what it sounds like User1 and PC are saying. Give the land back to the creatures by designating it as wilderness thereby excluding bicycles. As I said before there has to be a balance.
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 3:37 pm
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This shouldn't reflect on Sierra Club overall, but Sierra's So-cal chapters were among the major environmental opposition forces to the building of new transmission lines outside San Diego that genuinely are needed for big commercial wind and solar power plants. The only way to get a lot of affordable renewable energy is through big projects that require new transmission lines to access the best wind and best solar resources. Environmentalists don't like seeing transmission lines anywhere, and instead think we can do it all with solar PV on our houses here in LA. No way. Nothing is perfect and at some point you've got to stand for something.
0gravity02.26.09 - 3:40 pm
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towliesbong wrote:
So, User1, you think we shouldn't be able to ride bikes anywhere but in the city?
Fallacy of the false dilemma. Saying that we shouldn't be able to ride bikes in wilderness area X is not saying that we shouldn't be able to ride bikes anywhere but in the city.
Where would you stop designating wilderness? Downtown LA?
Certainly not...but if I did, it would be no more hilariously inappropriate than claiming with a straight face that Magic Mountain is an urban area.
PC02.26.09 - 3:47 pm
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^^^^IT'S A TRAP^^^^
PC02.26.09 - 3:48 pm
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towliesbong,
Ur just a big fat red neck! Go play with ur cow size gf!
User102.26.09 - 4:17 pm
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Aw, man, that was low, Allan. She just dumped him.
Joe Borfo02.26.09 - 4:18 pm
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towliesbong,
Ur just a big fat red neck! Go find urself a cow size gf to play with!
User102.26.09 - 4:22 pm
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Sierra Club
PETA
VPC
Brady Campaign against Gun Violence
Million Mom March
Cindy Sheehan
Politicians
^^^All give me the heeby jeebies.
el_spaniard02.26.09 - 4:22 pm
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Do you know, Allen, that the Sierra Club and Earth First! are at odds? You probably do...two different points on a continuum.
tern02.26.09 - 4:27 pm
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Everyone is at odds with Earth First! Tern. Sierra Club gets stuff done. I don't have a problem supporting both.
User102.26.09 - 4:38 pm
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"So, User1, you think we shouldn't be able to ride bikes anywhere but in the city?"
Fallacy of the false dilemma. Saying that we shouldn't be able to ride bikes in wilderness area X is not saying that we shouldn't be able to ride bikes anywhere but in the city.
User1 one wants to return the wild to the creatures, he wants to accomplish this by designating them wilderness, bicycles are not allowed in wilderness. Hardly a fallacy of the false dilemma.
"Where would you stop designating wilderness? Downtown LA?"
Certainly not...but if I did, it would be no more hilariously inappropriate than claiming with a straight face that Magic Mountain is an urban area.
It's urban to me, it has manmade infrastructure, is in view of the city, it might be wild to someone from the inner city but it's not even close to wild to me. I've ridden my bicycle there from the valley many times so I know what the area is like. Have you or User1 ever done so?
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 4:57 pm
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Usr1,
Ur just a big fat tree hugger! Go find urself a cow size tree to play with!
toweliesbong02.26.09 - 4:58 pm
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towliesbong, with all due respect...don't try to intimidate people, even if it's Allen, your long time friend. Your opinion doesn't jibe with all others on this forum....so If you have some points to make, please make them.
tern02.26.09 - 5:06 pm
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"I've ridden my bicycle there from the valley many times so I know what the area is like. Have you or User1 ever done so?"
Hey big fat redneck, we're going there this spring! Wana come? We ahhhh want to find out the bottom of this missile complex that's underground. Apparently there's a big drop off.
User102.26.09 - 5:10 pm
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Tern, that big fat redneck is making his point. I don't see a problem.
User102.26.09 - 5:13 pm
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What I said to towlie has the same focus on you, Alllen.
Why don't you two exchange email addresses, which I'm sure the both of you already have....and go out on a date, or a play-date.
Whatever, you guys want to fight it out, fine. And, I'm sure all of it is gonna be about social bike rides in Los Angeles.
tern02.26.09 - 5:14 pm
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This isn't directed at you, Allan but, I wonder what the average income of an SC-member is?
Every time I see these guys on TV, or a magazine/newspaper article, the term "limousine liberal" comes to mind.
As far as keeping the wilderness wild, I think it should be limited to areas that would require gargantuan amounts of money and equipment to domesticate the area.
A good example would be if your proposed construction requires a high, percentage of implements just to remove natural obstructions.
In this case, your development permits would be rejected and all plans terminated until you could find a suitable spot elsewhere.
I hear Kansas is chock full of empty space, perhaps we'll reconsider.
bentstrider02.26.09 - 5:22 pm
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towliesdong wrote:
It's urban to me, it has manmade infrastructure, is in view of the city, it might be wild to someone from the inner city but it's not even close to wild to me.
Manmade infrastructure doesn't mean urban. In view of the city doesn't mean urban. Adjacent to the city doesn't mean urban. Are the suburbs urban? They meet all of those criteria.
If your belief is that areas near cities with manmade infrastructure, including long-dormant infrastructure, should be made available in perpetuity for conventional human land uses, be forthright about it and make your case. Trying to convince people that a friggin' mountaintop is an "urban area" in order to score points against people who want to ban some land uses there is a dead end.
I've ridden my bicycle there from the valley many times so I know what the area is like. Have you or User1 ever done so?
Can't speak for BGA, but I haven't. Is there some reason that this is relevant? Surely you weren't about to suggest anything so absurd as that a person who hasn't personally visited a place is not able to know basic information about that place. Because then I would really have to think that you were drinking that bongwater.
Listen, I'm all about cycling and UrbEx and earth art and having weird fun in unusual places, but if there's a truly compelling reason for a potential playground to be made off-limits to me, I'm all about being a fucking grownup and sucking it up. Of course, if you think that the reasons for making
this particular playground off-limits are less than compelling...well, like I said, make your case.
PC02.26.09 - 10:48 pm
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Shuddup, Borfo.
PC02.26.09 - 10:48 pm
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(He hasn't said anything yet, but I know he's going to)
PC02.26.09 - 10:49 pm
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