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Your totally right, my neighborhood has many illegals from former Soviet block
Eastern Europe, who have come up thru Mexico and acquired false ID's
I know this to be fact.
But some people like to play the role of the victim and pull the race card.
I never said it was racist if someone complained. The Raza movement from my knowledge is not claiming they are superior over any one unlike white supremacist groups. Either way my opinion on this whole commercial is that they are blaming other people for California's Economic crisis. Kind of sounds like something that happened back in the 1930's.
john.13 responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.23.10 - 10:01 pm
IF YOU DON'T SEE THE FINGER POINTING AT THE MEXICAN BORDER, AND REALIZE THE SIGNIFICANCE, RELATING TO MEXICANS, OR" WETBACKS" OR "BORDER BROTHERS" THEN I CAN NOT EXPECT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE POLITICS OF Steve Poizner STATEMENTS,
THE REALITY IS THAT ENFORCEMENT OF MIGRATION FROM MEXICO, TO THE US of A, TRULY AFFECTS THE "MEXICANS", NOT MIDDLE EASTERN COMMON NON-TERRORISTS. --OR TERRORIST EITHER. AND OF COURSE THEY ( AMERICAN LAW ENFORCEMENT ) ARE ALL HOLLERING ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY.
WHEN IN FACT THE "COMMISSION" HAS DOCUMENTED THE INEPT ABILITY OF THE US GOVERNMENT TO PREVENT A 'MAN' FROM ENTERING AN AIR PLANE WITH A DIRTY BOMB IN HIS PANTYS, SHIT.
they never said, or implied, southern brown people.
cali economy is suffering. i dont think the "mexicans" are responsible for that - and you dont have to be good at math to be "informed enough" to agree. YOU LIVE HERE
who then is this ad referring to by saying "illegals"( really? who the fuck are illegals? where can i find this on a map). yes there are many people who are here illegally but the most of the attention is turned on one group of people.
mechazawa responding to a comment by nolikedrive
03.24.10 - 2:00 am
you guys are all racist for assuming that this ad is targeting just one specific race of people, instead of EVERYONE who comes to this country/state illegally.
i cant tell if youre being facetious or if you're just a moron in a suburban bubble. but assuming you're just writing this to be a prick, why don't you support your idiotic statements with some facts, instead of an episode of south park? you wont.
and the reason you can't type my name because you abused my right to privacy. i consider it the same thing as publicly posting your home address, which i had no problem finding with just your name.
doesnt matter if your white, black, yellow or brown... AMERICANS have to watch out for their OWN!!!!!!! The only true AMERICANS are the gabriellinos and tongva... mexicans are also aliens just not the white man. From ventura to oceanside there were only 500-2000 real natives leaving in this basin depending on the season.
many california natives actually assimilated into the mexican community. up until the 1960s there were native americans living in the san fernando valley and trading with the farmers who lived there.
How can this happen when a large segment of the population does not
consider the South West to be part of the United States, but feel entitled
to all the services that the States offer ?
Our corporate appointed President born in another country
Dedicated818 responding to a comment by pauly-winkerstinkle
03.24.10 - 10:56 am
Because the SouthWest(and Texas) only bow into the pressure due to the threat of 10-15 Ohio Class SSBN's sitting off the coast, loaded down with MIRV's.
The way I see it, the true PTB wouldn't hesitate to turn a domestic area that doesn't agree with them into a cordoned-off deathzone.
Exploiting the fear of difference and stoking prejudice is a time honored tradition in American politics.
This particular ad is straight out of the 90s. If he had a time machine to take to a whiter and more ignorant time in california history he might actually have a chance on winning.
Went through this Poizner guys list of plans.
Just like every other state politician, he's not going to be going anywhere near the CALPERS system.
This is probably one of the biggest things contributing to the bankruptcy of many municipalities throughout the country, letting public employees retire with a great chunk of the last salary they made.
You could only scoop from the same pot for so long until that pot is out of stew.
Exploiting the fear of difference and stoking prejudice is a time honored tradition in American politics.
This particular ad is straight out of the 90s. If he had a time machine to take to a whiter and more ignorant time in california history he might actually have a chance on winning.
i wish it were that simple. immigrants get blamed every time the economy takes a dip. it's happened all throughout our history. prop 197 was only 15 years ago. there will be another.
Cool info do you have any more?
The original Baskin Robbins was located at the intersection of Chevy Chase and Adams in the city of Glendale.
Bullshit !
My social security # was used by someone who was working,
and claiming a 1099 status / no tax deductions from a paycheck.
I was then left with the tax debt and the problem of resolving it.
i know at least a dozen immigrants who pay taxes. i used to work at a restaurant. my employer would not have allowed them to file as 1099 because they don't want the trouble. im sure whatever business they were working for had hell to pay.
1. I dont get this commercial how is he going to save cali from liberal failure? scharza!@#$?s a republican and hes ran this shit into the ground
2. If an unskilled worker from Mexico can come here and your worried about them taking your job then you an idiot and you need to go back to school to get a better job
yeah, try to find an american citizen to wash dishes and scoop feces and rotten food out of a grease trap once a week making minimum wage. i knew a guy who did that for 3 years, paid all his taxes and then moved back to mexico and bought a house in jalisco.
he worked his ass off and made way less then i got paid to sit on my ass making phone calls and writing invoices.
Isn't this tread about illegal immigration ?
Not immigrant's who get documented and pay taxes ?
But it is really the fault of the government for giving services
and allowing employers to take advantage of these people.
My Grandfather immigrated from Italy in the early 1900s
He was a coal miner for 20 years and then shoveled coal
in the furnaces at Ford motor co. for 30 years, hard labor.
But he learned the language and became a citizen.
He was proud to be an American.
you guys are all racist for assuming that this ad is targeting just one specific race of people, instead of EVERYONE who comes to this country/state illegally.
EXACTLY!
coldcut responding to a comment by ruinedbyidiots
03.25.10 - 12:22 am
#2 already answered
are you trying to show how smart you think you are by asking for absolutes ?
a definite maybe
What are your opinions on illegal immigration and the effect on our states economy ?
Should those who have no interest in becoming a citizen be given benefits ?
Hum ?
got me wondering if your a sex offender since you thought of an alibi
You are great at debating. Did you have any rational arguments against anything I said? No you implied I'm a sex sex offender. Have you ever thought about becoming a fox commentator? You would be perfect. Oh... and my name is David Mcgahan if you want to look me up. For your own Piece of mind.
buckchin responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.25.10 - 1:51 am
You did bring up the subject with a scenario after all."
And you did did bring up the subject of people stealing SS#s, with a scenario? Using your logic, you might be responsible for steeling peoples SS#'s then right?
buckchin responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.25.10 - 2:28 am
isn't this tread about illegal immigration ?
Not immigrant's who get documented and pay taxes ?
i am speaking of illegal immigrants who use a fake social security number or all zeros, and pay taxes. the guys i used to work with all had at least two jobs, sometimes three, and often slept 2-to-a-bed so that they could send more of their hard-earned money back to their families.
they are undocumented and do not apply for unemployment when they get laid off. do they not have a right to wait for shitty medical care for 6 hours at the county hospital if they get sick?
Well, as much as I don't agree with it, the anonymity pretty much saves their ass.
At least they know how to use their heads and slip between the cracks as needed.
bentstrider responding to a comment by tortuga_veloce
03.25.10 - 10:05 am
Yes it's agreed that the undocumented worker has it rough and are taken
advantage of by employers, but ?
As you say the money earned goes back to Mexico.
They do not take unemployment because they would not qualify.
Several Hospitals in the L.A. area have been forced to close due to the
Emergency room health care issue, affecting the prompt care needed by citizens.
The fact is only a small percentage of undocumented workers pay taxes.
The majority are paid under the table.
What about the issue of Operating a motor vehicle with no licence and no insurance ?
Should legal drivers have to pay more to offset the cost ?
Yes, as long as there's a large uninsured population in LA, hospitals with emergency rooms will keep going further into the red. It's good that you recognize that. So are we to infer from this that you think illegal immigrants should have been covered under the "universal coverage" mandate of those health insurance reforms? You know, in order to keep our hospitals open and stuff?
"Isn't the argument that this area was stolen therefore illegal does not apply ?"
---Yes, thats part of the argument.
"So Native Citizens should pay taxes and newcomers should get a free ride?"
---Ummmm, no, because as you noted the land was stolen, thus why would taxation and most other systems apply, when the Native did not develop them? I think you need to take it a few steps further.
Suppose someone steals your car, lowers it, adds a kit, adds a dual-exhaust, and puts dice on the rear-view mirror. The thief thinks, "hey I made this car "better"!!!
In time you retrieve your stolen car.
Do you HAVE TO maintain the modifications or should you be free to return your car to it's original state (if you wanted)? I suppose since it is your car again, it is open as to whether you can charge passenger for a ride, or find it in your heart to just help someone out.
markd responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.25.10 - 12:30 pm
Actually that's not my argument that the area was stolen.
Mexico fought the U.S. and lost.
and at that time the land here was owned by Californio's, Spanish families
who had established Ranch's.
Not the Mexicans who where trying to grab land from them.
It's a lost cause trying to rationalize the negative affects of Illegal immigrants
Because of the demographics involved, people get emotional and feel victimized.
The reality of it is that Big Corporate promotes undocumented workers for
a cheap labor force.
1. In regard to my previous post, you made the conclusion, that if land is stolen, then natives should pay taxes and non-natives should not. I addressed that idea, but you simply replied -- well i dont agree with the argument that land is stolen. Well, do you still hold to your previous claim that if it were stolen, the natives would have to pay taxes?
2. Id like to see your response to nathan; i think he made a nice little point.
markd responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.25.10 - 4:47 pm
The fact is only a small percentage of undocumented workers pay taxes.
The majority are paid under the table.
do you have any statistics to back up this fact? in my own experience, i have met a great number of illegal immigrants that work their asses off and pay their taxes.
What about the issue of Operating a motor vehicle with no licence and no insurance ?
Should legal drivers have to pay more to offset the cost ?
most illegal immigrants would like to have licenses. the status quo is that they are forced to buy "throwaway" cars, then if they get pulled over for a broken tail light, the car gets impounded and they have to pay a $500 fine.
if you don't believe me, go to the van nuys traffic court any day of the week. you'll see about 50 undocumented immigrants paying fine money that goes to CHP officers, courts, DMV offices and repaving our roads.
The views expressed by those with usernames containing the numerals 8, 1, and 8, DO NOT represent the opinions of San Fernando Valley denizens as a whole or in any notable proportion for that matter.
there are lots of problems with illegal immigration, including licensing, fraud and drug smuggling. there is also more than one way to solve these problems, and im concerned with finding a solution that is most fair. i am not a communist. i am trying to have an honest debate with you--something that i think is critically lacking in this country.
i believe in giving a fair shake to people who try to contribute to society and respect others, even if they came into this country illegally. im not talking about people who steal identities or take advantage of social services, im talking about people who spend all their time working for American-owned businesses and doing what they're told. i think we can both agree on that.
-40% of the 10 million workers in L.A. county are working for cash
and not paying taxes.
-95% of warrants for murder in L.A.county are for illegal aliens.
-FBI reports over half of gang members in L.A. county are illegal aliens.
-35% of inmates in L.A. county jail are illegal aliens
-75% of people on most wanted list are illegal aliens.
-over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles county are living in garages.
-60% of people living in HUD housing are illegal aliens
-over 2/3 of births in L.A. county are by illegal aliens on Medi Cal who's
births are paid by taxpayers.
-2% of illegal aliens are picking crops
-29% of illegal aliens are on welfare
-29% of federal inmates are illegal aliens
You must agree these stats are alarming, making the honest working folk look bad.
But if your here illegally isn't that like cutting in line before the legal immigrants ?
As big an issue as unchecked immigration is, I think we should all agree that outsourced goods production has turned everything on its collective ass.
Whether it was attractive tax-breaks offered by a long-gone administration, or a business model of higher profits by making goods more affordable to a less fortunate demographic, producing goods in cheaper countries has made a joke out of the American worker.
Like I've mentioned in other posts offhandedly, we should make private-industry a more attractive source of long-term, enjoyable employment, and government positions a suckers paradise like it used to be.
if you couldnt pay for your kids to go to school without illegally immigrating, would you sit around waiting to "win the lottery?" if your argument is that illegal immigration is wrong because it's illegal, then i think you're missing the point.
this is a very large issue, and so i dont want to get into the drug trade or the mexican mafia because we'd never be done talking about it. i could also contest some of your statistics, but we'd just end up going back and forth. (2% of food stamps benefits go to children of illegal immigrants http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?HEHS-98-30)
every time you eat at a restaurant, chances are you're benefitting from illegal immigration. they're an important part of our economy, and if they were gone tomorrow, LA would be fucked. that being said, can we agree that the honest, hard-working immigrants deserve to be left alone, maybe even given some basic healthcare?
i mean, if 35% of inmates in LA county are immigrants, then 65% are US citizens. do you want to do something to stop all US citizens from enjoying the benefits of our advanced society?
If you really really really want to solve this issue then you have to stop talking about immigration and start talking about enforcing labor laws on private businesses. Human beings will do whatever it takes to make a living. And businesses in the US exploit that fact. The truth is that our government is weak on enforcing labor laws and private businesses want to spend the least amount of money and resources to make the most profit. So if these assholes can take advantage of poor people just trying to make a better life for themselves they will. They hire undocumented workers, pay them shit, and put them in hazzardous situations because it's cheaper to do that then to provide a decent wage and a safe working environment. Why? Because gluttonous fat lazy Americans want to buy cheap goods at walmart instead of paying what the real cost should be.
If you REALLY want the immigration issue to be solved don't focus on the laborers looking for a better life - all of us given the same circumstances would do the same - focus on removing the incentive for non citizen human beings to come here. That means punishing businesses that hire under the table and skirt labor laws. Once that is done the issue melts away.
i dont think any of that is realistic. the history of mexican immigration in this country goes back 150 years, and in that time the only real change has been the official legal status of those immigrants.
even if you punished the american businesses that take advantage of cheap immigrant labor, you still have the problem of poverty in mexico, which is largely a product of NAFTA, which killed industrial manufacturing in central mexico. around the turn of the last century (when the US was giving passes to immigrants who worked unskilled industrial jobs?) you'll find that it was US businesses that actually built Mexico's rail network for the purpose of facilitating the North-South movement of cheap labor.
this isnt a problem of lax enforcement, its a calculated move on the part of business to ensure a cheap, flexible labor force. and throughout history, every time the job market sags, mexicans get blamed and forced out of the country. and if they didnt leave, their houses got bulldozed. you know the 110/10 interchange? that was a mexican neighborhood that got plowed under during an economic downturn. so was the land that SMC was built on.
american businesses have always used mexican labor when it was convenient for them, and then discarded them when it suited them. the fact that this behavior was termed "illegal" did nothing to actually stop the flow of immigration, it only served as a means of marginalizing and criminalizing a vulnerable population.
Yes, turning attention to businesses that operate illegally as opposed to focusing solely on the immigrants themselves, is one part of the equation.
But really what's needed is reform of NAFTA, North American Labor Standards, and Global Labor Standards and Fair Trade economic development.
Cracking down businesses is necessary and difficult (those people pay big campaign donations, immigrants don't).
But that won't solve the demand to come here.
We have a thriving underground economy here and frankly, lots of people make their living off of the table scraps of the US.
Ever seen people driving around with a truckload of cardboard, pulling cans out of the trash? Not to mention pulling out a BBQ or a shopping cart, up on the corner to sell tacos, or tamales.
Even in economic downturn, the US is oozing with money by the standards of most of the rest of the world.
If we truly want a balanced immigration policy we need to be serious about economic development in North America that will help elevate the the workers, not the typical trickle down bullshit that we always come up with.
But, Personally, If it was up to me, i'd just tear the fucking walls down.
They serve no purpose. We are people, not cattle.
Wikipedia (yes take it with a grain of salt) has some interesting information and quotes several studies. I am not sure there is one solution to this Polycephalic problem, but we all have a personal perspective that may be unique.
We all want a better country and no doubt the influx of different cultures has made America great, the question is how can we make it better?
In agreement with Roadblock and Veloce
except for the Walmart statement which is a out sourcing issue.
But ?
Should the State give benefits to non citizens ?
Isn't giving benefits one of the incentives to come here ?
If a woman can make it across the border and have a child on U.S. soil
she is entitled to all benefits, known as a anchor baby. The more children
she has the more benefits she receives. This has created a segment of the
society that is dependent on the state. As the children grow up in poverty with
poor education they become easily indoctrinated into a criminal life style, gangs.
Once in this lifestyle of state sponsored entitlement it is hard for these people to
break the cycle. As many of the young teen girls get pregnant to receive benefits.
I would of rather our country put it's focus on stabilizing Mexico and developing
there economy than being in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I'm calling BULLSHIT on your stats.
just saying "source: LA times doesn't cut it."
at the very least these stats are designed to deceive and create fear.
for instance everybody i know, takes a cash job when they can get one.
95% of murder warrants are for illegal aliens?
really? does that mean 95% of the murders are committed by illegal aliens? or that they are so smart they arr the only ones that don't get caught, hence the standing warrants.
here's a factoid you left out.
who was the first person to die in the iraq war?
Yup an illegal immigrant: Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez
Your wack ass stats bring me back to the the start of this thread.
In desperation the first tactic is to scapegoat the weak and powerless.
Its easy to create a big scary boogieman out of "illegal immigrants" and play on people's racist fears.
Steve Douchener doesn't stand a chance in this election, so he's pulling out the Pete Wilson playbook.
How many illegal immigrants do you know that fit the profile?
All the people I know that fought their way here work hard as fuck and take care of their friends and family. Thats more than I can say for a lot of people I know who were "born here".
trickmilla responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.26.10 - 11:50 am
if you ask me, the real problem in this country isnt the economy or healthcare or immigration, bur the breakdown in communication between people of different viewpoints.
liberals and conservatives in congress and in everyday life have a lot of commonsense viewpoints in common, but when they spend all their time arguing about who is crazy we never get there.
if we can solve the immigration debate and stop drug smuggling by promoting industrial manufacturing and creating jobs in central mexico--and we can all agree on that? why don't we form a coalition of liberals and conservatives and take it to congress?
we're too busy beating each other up about gun rights/control and immigrant rights/control to find that common ground and take back our government from the big corporations that are robbing us on both sides of the aisle.
you'll never change everyones minds, but you can find things you both agree with.
That's if you believe that web site. Just because they dispute it does not
make it fact. In fact disputing is what validates them whether there giving
you accurate facts or not.
yes, but he entered the country illegally and benefitted from the state-run education which you are saying he shouldn't have received.
He made the 2,000-mile journey from his Guatemala City neighborhood without entry papers. He hopped 14 freight trains to get through Mexico. U.S. immigration authorities detained him.
Fernando Castillo, Guatemala’s consul general in Los Angeles, says the United States doesn’t deport Guatemalan minors who arrive without family. Gutierrez was made a ward of Los Angeles Juvenile Court. He was placed in a series of group homes and foster families. He learned English and finished high school.
walmart IS a huge part of the problem. and when I say "walmart" I'm generalizing all the money interests that benefit from cheap labor. this includes agribusiness, manufacturers, restaurants, service companies. These interests NEED to be checked hard. instead these money interests form lobbying groups and trade groups that work tooth and nail to contribute to the destruction of unions and the erosion of labor laws and the erosion of government enforcement of labor laws. not only that they buy products that are outsourced to countries that provide cheap labor in inhumane working conditions. the money interests do not give a damn about the consequences of their actions so long as americans remain ignorant and consuming.
enforce labor laws. back unions. that's a big part of the solution.
immigration works on both sides of the border. for every pull in this country, there is a push factor in mexico. if every illegal immigrant in los angeles lost their job today, half of them would go back to their home country and the other half would join the underground economy, either standing in front of home depot or becoming a common criminal.
you need to solve the economic situation in mexico--which the US helped create!
no man is an island. if you don't help your neighbor (whomever they are wherever they are from) get an education and stay healthy then you will find yourself in increasingly hostile conditions. people who dont have education are less likely to be able to support themselves through legal means and will just plain rob your ass. have a cup of enlightened self interest and understand that you need to surround yourself with as many educated healthy people as possible.
however arguing about things like whether people around you should receive benefits and education is unnecessary once you address the root of the problem: lack of enforcement of tough labor laws.
Nonono, it's all true! He read it in an email once, you see...
Seriously, though, I think this is one of those issues where people on all sides tend to pick and choose which "facts" they want to believe. Well, all political issues tend to be that way, but this one especially so because there's not much reliable data. Because underground economies are, by their nature, difficult to measure accurately, people have to rely on anecdotes, personal observations and whatever made up bullshit their grandma sends them on the internets. When faced with two sets of loosely-sourced "facts," people choose the one that supports their existing preconceptions.
The fact that Mr. 818 can say something so patently ridiculous as "disputing is what validates them whether there [sic] giving you accurate facts or not" just highlights this.
So you have a shinning example of a someone who was brought up
through the system and was KIA for the corporate bankers,
What about the masses who do not consider California to be part of the U.S.
Do not want to be citizens, Do not want to learn English, are Racist against
White people, but want all the benefits that go along with being here ?
enforce labor laws. back unions. that's a big part of the solution.
I agree with you that labor standards and unions for private industry are necessary and such, but what about the likes of government oversight committees like AFL-CIO and various Department of Labor boards who could now pull the plug one operations that are deemed "out-of-line".
To me, more funding towards government operations like these and education, as opposed to the public funding of public employee unions like the "Correctional Peace Officers Association", would go a long way in enforcing many of these laws and made sure they were followed to the tee.
Alright the whole racist thing you have to learn something about history first. One of the main reasons why old school and new school mexicans hate "white people" is because of what happened during the Mexican American War or like Mexico likes to call it "The U.S Invasion" Just to add this war all started out because of the river that ran up texas and had access to the gulf of mexico. Any ways when the US shot its cannons *first* in order to get mexico to do something so they can march in and start a war with mexico. After this little skirmish when the US Army would marched in to reach the Mexican Capital when they would conquer towns they would rape the women and play target practice with the young kids and old folks. [Sounds kind of familiar dont it] So excuse some mexicans for still holding a grudge i mean its only been a 100yrs.
john.13 responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.26.10 - 1:15 pm
unfortunately tearing the walls down doesnt work either. at least in the sense that the walls are torn down quickly.... case in point: it leads to ethnic cleansing of the weaker group. basically, when one powerful cohesive group of human beings moves into an area and drives another group out through violence, political or economic means.... it causes a lot of bloodshed. it probably will never end. over and over it has happened throughout history like the european settlers did to the Native Americans, like the US did to the Mexicans, like the arabs did to the kurds, like the germans did to the polish, like the jewish settlers are doing right now to arab palestinians....... there is no simple answer. it's nature to battle over resources and to battle over which group gets access to said resources.
Roadblock responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
03.26.10 - 1:19 pm
I say those that want it to be part of Mexico again grow some balls and just say it, instead of lurk around in the darkness and pass of subtle messages about wanting it to be that way.
But, just like Texas has been reluctant to split off, there's still that little issue of those Ohio-class SSBN's that lurk off the coastlines with their 4,000 mile range payloads.
Staying on point,
If everyone desires to come together and work as one, some assimilation is the key.
Learn the language fluently and observe the way your newfound coworkers do things.
Immigrants from Asian and European countries take the time to get some of the cultural traits down before they ever get here, it shouldn't be hard for those "right next door" to do the same.
you can whine all day about public employee unions but the fact is that they have maintained their jobs and benefits than anyone in the private sector. all the private sector employees like to bitch about public workers because their own private jobs have gone overseas or gone to shit. these private employees need to pull up their boot straps and start unionizing and supporting government enforcement of labor laws on private industry or GTFO. or at least quit whining like little bitches and do something about their own situation rather than hating on others who've put in the time and energy to maintain their status quo.
Roadblock responding to a comment by bentstrider
03.26.10 - 1:24 pm
Actually, 160 years, but the whole thing that would've really turned the tide of the battle is....
How much different this part of the country would've looked if neighboring colonial powers such as France, Russia and UK(Louisiana, British Columbia, and Alaskan territories at the time) backed Mexico in their fight.
Now THAT would've been an embarrassing bloodbath for the US at the time.
I imagine alternate history would've had the present-day US split along territorial lines along the likes of real-time South America.
Yeah, firefighters, cops, and simple janitors crying about not being paid enough and subtly getting others to fund it.
That's okay, I'd much rather take my chances fighting off home-invaders or climbing out of a wreck myself than call those blowhards.
I feel I make enough money as it is, but then there are those that have this prima-donna, "I'm entitled to the fuckin' world" attitude.
Yeah, keep it up until you bankrupt everyone else to the point of creating more enemies than you can zap an X-26 tazer at.
Since the tax-allotments are set in stone, I guess my hard-earned cash will continue going towards their right to have benefits and retirement while speeding down the street in a patrol car like a jackass.
You've also got the various, indigenous tribes still living traditionally on the island section of Malaysia located on Borneo.
Compared to the Mainland section of Malaysia, when you cross over into this section, this is where you tend to notice the varying control differences.
different thread topic but if you can get past your brainwashing
there will be an interesting interview on Freedomizer Radio which is on
blogtalkradio.com of pastor Manning he has uncovered some interesting
information about your President. oh by the way he is African American
for all of you who like to pull the race card.
good job.
you should have introduced yourself.
But as I am not running in the popularity contest it's understandable.
To the rest of you
at least give me some credit for speaking my mind and saying it how
I see it even though it's not politically correct or is not in line with your views.
I'm done, nice chatting with all you
Hispanic Racist, and bitch ass Communist
I used to have this sense of self entitlement when it came to this issue like America was more rightfully mine than people born somewhere else. Now I feel like if someone is born into a shitty life and they put their ass on the line and work hard as hell just to get the opportunity that i just handed to me... then they deserve to be an seen as an American as much as I do. Even though working your ass off isn't exactly the American way...My fiend was pissed because he said some "illegal" got the job instead of him and I told him that the other guy deserved it more because he probably came 100 miles hidden under a hey bail to make it that interview...dedication...
That Iphone app video is hilarious... I love how his hand has like stucco or paint or cocaine on it hahaha or whatever it is
You are entitled to your own views and personally I am delighted you have this forum to express them.
However, as they say, your are not entitled to your own facts.
You say all those stats are via the LA Times, but you offer no references, or talk about their sources, and you discount anybody who challenges the reliability of the information.
Seriously, what masses are you talking about?
Are there polls or data to back this up?
Don't be so fast Glue sniffer
The disputed stats are in the OPINION section
as it states opinion journalism.
and they are combining illegal and legal stats together.
who needs stats anyway ?
Anybody with half a brain can see the decline thats been happening in the area.
I bet the Native Americans felt the same way when they saw the all that moonglow wash up on the east coast shores. I say fuck it. Give me a taste of your own medicine.
And aren't we crashing parties and people's houses in Afghanistan telling them how to run their country?
Some people know how to live everyone's life but they own.
And which benefits are these guys talking about? Don't hospitals take personal information before admitting a patient? Don't you think that these people would be a tad paranoid filling out such info?
NEXT!!!!
Destro1er responding to a comment by pauly-winkerstinkle
03.27.10 - 10:14 am
Don't get Dedicated H818 all bogged down with factoids and information.
Everybody knows L.A. is goin' down the tubes and if things are worse than they were yesterday and there are more undocumented immigrants than there were yesterday then clearly they are the cause of all of our problems. Right?
It pretty sad that California would get financially raped by Enron, the economy would be ravaged by 8 years of bush-o-cracy. That the bible thumping flag flappers would run this country into the ground in the name of Reagan and jesus.
That our economy could be utterly ravaged in an ugly class war that saw trillions of dollars get piped to the top 1% while the rest of us have suffered.
And DH1818 wants to blame the people who come here risking life and limb to survive off of the scraps of America.
Wake up bro.
You are gettin' played like a fiddle.
read a little history, this story is 100 years old.
every time shit gets bad ... the real criminals divert everybody's attention to the poor, the weak, and the under-represented. And the criminals keep on, keepin' on.
Funny how you Communist twist things around like your the good guys.
when in fact your the problem.
Getting back to the point,
If the state is in financial crisis should it be giving benefits to illegal aliens ?
Where not talking about poor documented immigrants, but undocumented
nationals from other countries.
There are many other issues that are hurting the states economy,
but illegal immigration and the benefits given is one of them.
Isn't it part of your Marxist agenda to bring every one down to a poverty
level to become dependent on the state.
You think you cool with your Global citizen everybody deserves the same
agenda when in fact you are the ones being played by the elites.
Everyone's wages are brought down when the base pay rate is low.
Do we really need to promote a influx of uneducated unskilled workers into
a state that has a employment crises ?
Besides with the upcoming financial collapse there will be plenty of Americans
trying to survive of the scraps.
Your a fool if you think it's the Republican George Bush administration that
has put us in this crises. The people started being taken advantage of long
before by both parties. There is no left right paradigm both parties have the
same agenda to support the rich elite.
Pretty much every piece of data you have presented to support your anti-alien views has been de-bunked, so all we are left with is broad generalizations and name calling.
You are welcome to your views, but calling people stupid names kind of deflates your arguments worse than your made up statistics.
Anybody who knows me here knows that I am an artist, I value free expression, I value hard work, and I cherish my record collection. Ideals that are not exactly in line with communism.
Silly labels don't really address the problem.
But I will cede you a few points.
Yes both parties/ the entire american political machine serve the interest of big business. It is the nature of our system at the moment.
i would blame that to a certain degree on ideological conservatives that believe that the market solves all problems. Clearly a market based approach to election financing isn't really doing the job.
Yes when factories exploit workers its does have negative ripple effects on the economy. You can blame this on the victims of exploitation or on the perpetrators but i have a feeling if you asked the people being exploited, they would prefer to be making fair wages.
I know you hate all mainstream politicians equally, but I do think its useful to exercise a little nuance when assessing their actions.
Its is undeniable the the republicans held control of all 3 branches of government for most of the last decade, in that time we saw 2 phony wars get started, banks be deregulated, civil rights protections gutted, businesses run amok. I'm not saying plenty of Dems didn't contribute but Republicans were at the helm.
Before the Enron house of cards collapsed and it became clear to anybody who was paying attention Enron created a fake energy crisis, and basically had California over the barrel. Our governor begged Bush's federal govt. to step in and and do something about this exploitation. But he refused. Gray Davis relented payed the ransom to Enron and California's Budget surplus was gone in a puff of smoke. Less then 2 years later Enron collapsed and all that wealth just magically disappeared. Madoff before madoff got caught.
I have actually heard conservative complain that the problem with th enron energy scandal is that we didn't deregulate enough!?!?!?!
So yes. Blowing Billions on wars, shuffling billions to the banks and corps, before and after the bailout, encouraging the big 3 to make big ass gass guzzelers (remeber the SUV write-off?) exacerbating the problems with mexico's economy/drug war with heightened border restrictions. I put those things on the so-called conservatives who's policies have hightened all of these problems we are dealing with now.
In a few more years. it will have been the Dem's who have been running things and we will have a chance to blame them for their failures.
Sincerely Comrade,
trickmilla
trickmilla responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.27.10 - 2:55 pm
Dedicated you are so fucking ignorant. Please shut the fuck up for your own sake.
The DHS report did not classify ALL patriots as domestic terrorists. You should read what it said before you run your mouth. You should also be aware that the LEFT WING version of that report was released prior to the one you are up in arms about.
Oh yeah one other thing: it was commissioned by the fucking BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
I realize there are a lot of people who feel the same as you... but all you and them are doing is addressing the symptoms of the issue... dont you realize that by attacking the people who are only doing what they can to survive you look like a small crowd of bullies. have some gumption and stand up to business lobbiests who consistently work hard to erode the power of the unions and the dignity of workers.
Roadblock responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.27.10 - 3:48 pm
That could be an argument if the majority of our food was produced here
like in the past, But you seem to be unaware of that outsourcing as well.
and the the water deprivation issue of the up North affecting our farmers.
And besides your trying to combine illegal aliens with migrant farm workers.
I'm aware of outsourcing. it doesnt change the FACT that you as an individual benefit by consuming food and other products of industries right here in california that are cheaper because these businesses and industries hired undocumented laborers to do the work.
you need to vote with your dollars if you really are bout it bout it. I hearby declare that unless you stop spending money on goods produced with undocumented labor you are a hypocrite.
Roadblock responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.27.10 - 4:20 pm
Kind of hard to do that since you can't go two-feet without seeing "Made-in-China".
I'm a little mixed on the immigration issue since my mom's been here for about as long as I've been alive and didn't really plan on staying here that long(came here to get away from my young punk of a dad).
The way I see it, work the ass off, assimilate American culture as best as you can, take the tests and snag the citizenship like all other immigrants have done beforehand.
As far as "jumping the fence" goes, perhaps the DHS and ICE could be a little more receptive and encourage legal-immigration by sending the proper knowledge across the border to show how it should be done.
To me, criticism of running and gunning it over a closed border shouldn't be seen as racism, moreso it should be seen as just general "making yourself look like even more of an ass" than already perceived to be.
At least when one comes through the proper channels, that will go a long way in showing that one really wants to come to this country of ours and contribute to its classic greatness.
And as I said before, if anyone's going to be angry, keep that venom directed at the big-wigs running the major corporations who shit their pants when they think they'll no longer be able to afford that "home in the Hamptons" due to simple "cost-of-living" increases needed by the American worker.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of ignorance, hatred and racism that has prevented us from having substantive immigration reform. There is way more demand for legal entry then there are spots. This means that the legal spots tend to go to people of means first. That's why poor and desperate people end up risking their lives to come here.
If they had a foreign work visa for temporary workers that contained a path to citizenship we could see lots of people becoming legal and still providing the services that we need AND would have legal recourse against employers that want to exploit them.
If they created a system that was simple and fair then we wouldn't need to guard the border so vigorously to keep people out and make coming here a death defying feat.
I don't buy the argument that a job can be "taken" the fact is a worker who is here is also a consumer. And yes, extremely poor citizens, don't make or send as much money, but if we legalize our workforce, their wages will go up, as well their consumption the the resulting benefits to our society.
Sadly, this probably beats healthcare reform in terms of being a political 3rd rail.
People are genuinely afraid of losing the culture, and if you upgrade the illegal workers here from hidden/ 2nd class status, to fully included members of society, people are gonna have a shit fit. Its sad but true.
I see it as very similar to our Drug War. Everybody knows its stupid, its bullshit, and its not working. But anytime anybody tries to make sensible reforms, the drug boogie man gets dragged out to scare us all that we will all be living with crack zombies, if we don't jail every cluckhead for life alongside murderers.
trickmilla responding to a comment by bentstrider
03.27.10 - 6:00 pm
I take it back ...
I proudly take my place next to other accused communist camrades:
Langston Huges
Martin Luther King Jr.
tortuga_veloce
Charley Chaplin
Orsen Wells
Burgess Meredith
Arthur Miller
Pete Seeger
Paul Robeson
Roadblock
Aaron Copland
Big Bird
Malcom X
and of course everybody's favorite
Nazi, Muslim, Socialist, Communist, pawn of the corporate elite ... Barack Hussein Obama
trickmilla responding to a comment by tortuga_veloce
03.27.10 - 6:11 pm
Actually I by my meat from the local butcher who is a Mexican American.
a immigrant who came here and became a citizen.
I try to give him all my business even though it cost a little more than the market.
For all of you who are so hot on stats, here's your chance to sway some opinion.
Lets see some stats on the positive impact of giving illegal aliens state benefits.
THE ILLEGAL ALIEN CHALLENGE
We are talking about illegal aliens not legal immigrants, please do not combine the two.
Stats from the Opinion section do not count. Reliable main stream media sources,
are ok, I know you guys like there rhetoric Or official govt stats are ok as well.
Were not looking for opinions on how hard working they are or doing the job no one
wants, etc. that argument has been stated.
Looking for true statistics on the positive impact of giving illegal aliens benefits.
IF the only thing that they did illegally was cross the border and
IF they work honestly and pay all their taxes
...then they are already taxpayers like you and me, and they too are paying for those services. so they should benefit from the services they pay for, just like we benefit from their contribution to the economy.
i respect your opinion and think we have a lot in common, but i havent talked much about my own political views. before you get the wrong impression of where im coming from, i would like to see where you stand on some issues that are near and dear to my heart
1. the US government should seek to avoid policies that create terrorism. we should never have trained the militants who later became Al Qaida.
2. the US government should spend less on tax subsidies for large corporations and banks and spend more money to support small businesses
3. the US government should support policies that get people off unemployment and welfare, with the goal of 100% employment
4. children have a basic right to a supportive environment at school and should get extra help from after-school programs. shitty parents should never have an opportunity trade their childrens' food stamps for crack and let their children go hungry.
5. people should be able to live decently on 8-hours of work a day, like they could 50 years ago. our standard of living should increase, not decrease
100% employment is neither desire-able nor possible. if it were true hypothetically speaking there would be no growth in the economy. traditionally speaking democratic party favors a lower unemployment rate while republicans have favored higher unemployment.
i think ALL children, even children of illegal immigrants who were born in this country should have a chance to go to school and eat a nutritious breakfast and lunch at school, even if there isn't one at home. i even extend this to young children who are brought to this country by their parents.
I agree and I do believe that they both strongly represent business interests... essentially as chomsky put it, the business party with two factions the repubs and the dems. however, the dems do tilt more towards liberal on social issues like gay rights and so forth. but it is true that unemployment trends down during democratic presidency....
if you really look past the labels even communists arent 100% about state property just as capitalism is 100% free market. there is always a fuzzy line moving around the spectrum because the people's will is an ebb and flow between self interest and enlightened self interest.
Roadblock responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.27.10 - 9:53 pm
So true we are all human and I would be all for some humanitarian aid to Mexico.
as well as economic aid, but
I am not in support of a State sponsored welfare state here.
I can agree on that to a point.
I am not for the idea of those who come here with the intent of having
a anchor baby to get locked in to receiving benefits.
Lets be honest about this, Shit happens people get pregnant that's life.
But there are also others that plan this as a lifestyle.
THIS THREAD HAS REALLY BROUGHT OUT SOME DIFFERENT FEELINGS FOR ME , I AM SAD TO KNOW THAT MY PEOPLE COME TO THIS COUNTRY JUST TO COLLECT PUBLIC BENEFITS.
I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT I AM SO HAPPY THAT YOU HAVE OPENED MY EYES, FOR MANY YEARS (47) I THOUGHT THAT ILLEGAL ALIENS COME TO THIS COUNTRY TO WORK AND SEND MONEY HOME BECAUSE IT SUCKS 'OVER THERE' AND THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS PORTRAYED IT'S ABILITY AND DESIRE TO ASSIST THOSE THAT WANT TO BETTER THEIR LIVES,
BOY WAS I WRONG, I'M WITH YOU, IMA VOTE FOR MY HERO, STEVE NOW,
lolololol I am so brainwashed lololol I am so communist.
Ok now that that's out of the way, how about instead of continuing to be the ignorant person you have been in this thread, you react to the FACTS I gave you.
1. nothing in the DHS report construes all tea party types as terrorists.
2. it was the second of 2 DHS reports, the first being the left wing version
3. it was commissioned by the BUSH ADMINISTRATION
no stop acting like you are being targeted by those godless commie liberals.
stop posting.
To me, it's obvious you're not really up on a lot of the issues. I find that interesting because it was only a generation ago when no one wanted Italians in this country.
It looks like you're also young enough to not see a lot of the legislation aimed at illegals in the past 20 or so years.
BTW, when I go to an ER, I don't see a lot of illegals filling the waiting room. I see a lot of homeless there. Don't overlook the fact that a high percentage of homeless are Vietnam vets -- who served their country and returned to an ungrateful nation at a time when no one thought of PTSD. Have you served your country since you're so self righteous?
Sorry 818, you're making me puke.
mk4524 responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.28.10 - 1:52 am
@mk4524
Good I hope you puke your guts out and keep dry heaving
Yes Italians were looked down upon but they came with the intent of assimilating,
learning the language, and becoming citizens.
Unlike the current flood of immigrants who come here with the intent of seeing
what they can get to send back home, and have movements such as Aztlan,
and La Raza with no desire to assimilate.
I am old enough to know and have experienced first hand what is going on.
A native Californian born to U.S. citizens I grew up in the San Fernando Valley
during the 60s and 70s. I remember spending time with my Grandfather an Italian
immigrant, He had a house in North Hollywood. We would take walks around the
neighborhood and visit his other Italian friends. There was a large Italian community at that time. Everybody had pride of ownership and the neighborhood was spotless.
You would never recognize that neighborhood today. After the SFV became a
sanctuary for illegal immigrants the decimation is obvious. Today we have a high
crime rate, trash thrown everywhere including the all so common used diaper,
motor oil in the gutters from oil changes, graffiti, illegals driving around with no licence
no insurance no regard for traffic laws, genirations of offspring that have become
criminal gang members, and my favorite pet peeve chewing gum spit out all over
the side walks. It must be part of the ritual of coming to America spitting your gum
out on the side walk sort of like when a dog marks his spot on the fire hydrant.
Get real about the emergency room closure issue, ya right homeless vets are the
cause. If anything there would be more services and benefits available for the Vets
if we stopped spending money on supporting illegals. As a matter of fact I have made
the acquaintance of several homeless vets who could not find a place to use there
HUD voucher in the area because all the dwellings are occupied by illegals.
MOS11b3 and former contractor before becoming awake.Hope your still dry heaving.
NBC must be letting Jay Leno make racist statements as I got that sarcasm
from the Tonight Show.
Actually you must be the closet racist if your perception and stereo type
is that only African Americans get sound systems and rims on there Escalades.
Get with it Obama has lost all his credibility, and quit making yourself look ignorant
by blaming the Bush administration for this countries problems, It's much deeper
and goes a lot further back. But your president has not helped things with the
bail outs, the escalation in Afghanistan and this new health care bill.
It's not to late, pull off your little brown shirt and join the real Americans who
are trying to take back this country.
What the fuck are you babbling on about? If you don't think the joke was predicated on Obama being an African-American, you are dumber than I thought already.
Where in this thread did I blame Bush for anything? Oh you think I'm blaming Bush for problems because I said Bush commissioned the report you use as evidence that Obama is targeting you.
if you believe that all children should have an opportunity to succeed, riddle me this
i had a friend named luis who was going to ucla. his parents were illegal immigrants and he was born in mexico, though his two brothers were citizens. luis did well in school (something poizner would want to stop providing for kids) and got a chance to go to ucla. now he cant find a job in his chosen field (neuroscience) because he is an illegal alien.
granted, people who commit fraud and try to milk the system should be punished.
but shouldnt we separate people who do wrong from people like luis?
Ok now that you have proven how you wish to be the bigger idiot by responding.
I will answer your question with a question.
Do you really think the DHS agenda against the Patriot movement has changed
with the Obama administration ?
I think you should look at the MIAC report again
To answer your ongoing questions about the same topic.
I will give you this idea. sort of a middle ground.
There should be legislation and a deadline for those who can receive
amnesty and benefits.
This would have the stipulation that all those after this deadline has passed
would not be eligible nor would there children be eligible for instant citizenship if
born here. Not to say they would not be allowed to become citizens but they would
have to go through the process like all the other immigrants.
This would be fair for the people already here and discourage
the anchor baby issue.
For those who just wish to work here there should be easier residency requirements.
but just because your a resident does not entitled you to benefits.
There should also be stiff penalties for employers who higher undocumented
workers including forfeiture of the business.
And a revamping of the minimum wage
Finally free classes on English,American laws, and the citizenship process.
i think that you have a much fairer sense of how to deal with the immigration issue than poizner. you're not advocating a policy of "fuck'em, cut them all off," and you do fairly address the issue of people wanting to work in this country.
here is my only criticism: i think if you work 12-16 hours a day and get sick with swine flu, you should be able to go to the emergency room.
Just ideas as I'm tired of seeing things turn into the third world around here,
as are many others. I think the Hispanic community should put a effort out
to educate the newcomers on the ways and customs here such as disposing of
your trash properly.
With the coming economic collapse there could be a severe backlash against
the immigrant population here.
Besides the Patriots who are those FEMA camps for ?
I think the Hispanic community should put a effort out
to educate the newcomers on the ways and customs here such as disposing of
your trash properly.
i know plenty of mexicans and salvadorians who are a lot cleaner than most white americans. like i said, you can't paint everyone with the same brush.
With the coming economic collapse there could be a severe backlash against
the immigrant population here.
totally agree with you there. poizner is a part of it, and a lot of hard-working people who don't take advantage of the system are going to get caught up in it.
personally, i think it's important that i do something to protect them, like voting against poizner.
Agreed can't paint everyone the same.
In every group there is a class of people that make the others look bad.
I owe it to my Mexican friends that I got into Bicycle Racing.
As a kid we would hang out at Van Nuys park and race our BMX bikes around
we all decided to check out the real races going on in Sylmar, There parents
were very supportive and gave us rides there.
There's no way Poizner would win so don't worry.
I like Jerry Brown he has always struck me as being on top of things.
Is he as corrupt as all the rest I don't know maybe.
I still don't think we should be giving benefits to illegals though.
I still don't think we should be giving benefits to illegals though.
i think its misleading that you say that when you have so many "if's" lead to exceptions to the rule. don't forget, public education and free lunches are state benefits.
"The rapid growth of the cotton manufacture has attracted hither operatives from every part of the kingdom, and Ireland has poured forth the most destitute of her hordes to supply the constantly increasing demand for labour. This immigration has been, in one important respect, a serious evil. The Irish have taught the labouring classes of this country a pernicious lesson. The system of cottier farming, the demoralisation and barbarism of the people, and the general use of the potato as the chief article of food, have encouraged the growth of population in Ireland more rapidly than the available means of subsistence have been increased. Debased alike by ignorance and pauperism, they have discovered, with the savage, what is the minimum of the means of life, upon which existence may be prolonged. The paucity of the amount of means and comforts necessary for the mere support of life, is not known by a more civilised population, and this secret has been taught the labourers of this country by the Irish. As competition and the restrictions and burdens of trade diminished the profits of capital, and consequently reduced the price of labour, the contagious example of ignorance and a barbarous disregard of forethought and economy, exhibited by the Irish, spread.
...
The introduction of the power-loom, though ultimately destined to be productive of the greatest general benefits, has, in the present restricted state of commerce, occasioned some temporary embarrassment, by diminishing the demand for certain kinds of labour, and consequently, their price. The hand-loom weavers, existing in this state of transition, still continue a very extensive class, and though they labour fourteen hours and upwards daily, earn only from five to seven or eight shillings per week. They consist chiefly of Irish, and are affected by all the causes of moral and physical depression which we have enumerated. Ill fed - ill clothed - half sheltered and ignorant; - weaving in close damp cellars, or crowded workshops, it only remains that they should become, as is too frequently the case, demoralised and reckless, to render perfect the portraiture of savage life. Amongst men so situated, the moral check has no influence in preventing the rapid increase of the population. The existence of cheap and redundant labour in the market has, also, a constant tendency to lessen its general price, and hence the wages of the English operatives have been exceedingly reduced by this immigration of Irish - their comforts consequently diminished - their manners debased - and the natural influence of manufactures on the people thwarted. We are well convinced that without the numerical and moral influence of this class, on the means and on the character of the people who have had to enter into competition with them in the market of labour, we should have had less occasion to regret the physical and moral degradation of the operative population."
Bloody papists ran old Mother England into the ground. Ruined her for good, they did. Now she's just a third world country off the coast of Europe, all on account of the Irish.
THANKS FOR ENLIGHTENING ME, YOU REALLY MADE ME SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE.
Your right we should eliminate the boarder and encourage all the Mexicans to
come here for the benefits due to them. Since there are no jobs and they are unskilled
putting them on Welfare should be a top priority. Everything should be free including
lunches. Since California was stolen by Whites, just to be fair all White people should
pay extra taxes to cover this. I feel much better now just giving in, my anger is gone.
The tea party is one group of people that has been infiltrated by the Republican
party, You are ignorant if you fall for the media combing and stereotyping
all people who believe in freedom and the constitution as teabagers.
But your in the majority on this forum as there are a lot of you morons
who just don't get it.
You know that old saying about those who don't understand history? Yeah. The point I was getting at is that the anti-immigrant sentiments always take on the same old familiar form. "ZOMG, teh poor people! They're dirty! And they've got no morals! And they breed like rabbits! And they're taking our jobs! And they don't want to change!"
The fact that this alarmism is never really borne out in the long run doesn't stop people from waving their hands and screaming about the immigrant menace. And it doesn't stop politicians from using it to score cheap political points with ignorant bozos, either.
I think it's a little funny that one of your main complaints about illegal immigrants is that they don't pay taxes, seeing as how you were defending the honor of "tax protesters" after that asshole crashed a plane into the IRS building in Texas. What is so different about middle class white people who choose not to pay taxes that makes them so morally superior to poor brown people who choose not to pay taxes?
The tax criticism is an especially odd one to make since the undocumented workers who are likely to rely on government services would fall into the lower tax brackets. And given that the bottom 50% of taxpayers account for only 2.89% of all the revenue generated by income taxes, maybe you can see why I think your argument's missing some crucial economic logic.
Well said Nathan. The only problem is that logic does not work on these Tea Baggers. They have a warped world view that is looking a lot like Germany in 1939.
Foldie responding to a comment by nathansnider
03.29.10 - 2:03 pm
I'm in total agreement with you
as I stated you have enlightened me.
I am willing to lower my standard of living and give more control to the government
for the betterment of all. How could I be so selfish I really feel ashamed.
Ok I admit it I'm a closet Communist
I even have a red bike !
I'm feeling so good about this I'm making a trip to the store right now
to pick up some Red panties just like yours.
I wouldn't call that a lowered standard of living, I would call that "living within your means" and avoiding excess.
If people want government involved in their lives, then that's their own choice to suckle the government teat.
For those of us that want to do our own thing and be bad all by ourselves, then leave us be.
Millions of other stiffs out there that will take a handout with no hesitation, let them look like asses.
i was joking with him... i guess it didn't come across as a joke. Both him and I enjoy mountain biking, whether on new or old bikes. Its not necessarily from living in our means, but rather just enjoying older bikes.
I just don't get his vision of a standard of living. If my funds are being allocated to less fortunate (and in many ways this is an issue of luck), then so be it. But spitting these wild generalizations about Mexicans is unwarranted, especially since he really only provides his personal observations. As if he has been fixating his eyes on the nation, and watched Mexicans destroy the land and milk the government.
Its all very disappointing to read from him, so a little jab here or there seems justified. I can't really seem to tap too much into his perspective.... and i think it stems from our difference on "standard of living". He has others to blame for standards of living declining (i.e. $$$$).
All I'm seeing is our sense of humanity declining.
Time to go home.
markd responding to a comment by bentstrider
03.29.10 - 5:46 pm
Thanks Eddie for posting this thread no B.S.
It has made me realize just how racist I am.
and it reminded me of just how racist Hispanics are against Whites as well.
At least I gave you the perspective of the old angry White guy.
What is the solution ?
Ha! The amount of times you've discussed the military and all the toys of war you have to admit the irony of this statement. Who pays the military's tab? The US govt! The military accounts for something like 50% of the budget no? Talk about living off the govt teet! That's teet that would make Dolly Parton blush! Hiyo!!!!
Roadblock responding to a comment by bentstrider
03.29.10 - 7:29 pm
THE PULL OUT ALLOWS THE LEAVING OF 30 THOUSANDS DOLLARS OF EQUIPMENT THAT CAN BE UTILIZED BY THE INCOMING FORCES, THIS IS SANCTION FOR EACH AND EVERY BASE, ABOUT 240+. AND WE ARE FIGHTING / CRYING ABOUT 'WETBACKS' SIPHONING OUR HOME FRONT PUBLIC BENEFITS.
Now you're twisting it around to make it sound as though everyone's guilty of suckling.
I'm just saying that those that want everything out of life should work hard for it.
If you want the simple shack with the simple fixin's in the countryside, then you work soft.
If you want the big ass penthouse in the middle of the big city with all the trimmin's, then you work extremely hard for it.
Those that need a hand at every step in their life tend to make you wonder if they truly need that help, or do they just hate work.
As far as what this has to do with illegal immigration, I don't know, but regardless of status, I favor anyone who breaks their backs and provides for themselves with little assistance whatsoever.
A good example would be that any time I go over to, say a pharmacy line, or a place that accepts EBT, I see more "citizens" wielding EBT cards while those that appear "illegal" are busting out wads of cash to pay for their goods.
But back on point, it would be good to cut military spending as well and relegate national defense to a string of local militias with a loose-knit command structure for inter-cohesion when needed.
But, just like firearms and other weapons, this genie's out of the bottle and there's no way to shove it back in.
"Like I said before I'm not running in the popularity contest.
And will say it as I see it even if it offends you." Say what is true to you. I can respect that. It doesn't mean that I should agree with it.
"We all have stereotypes and groups we dislike
at least I'm admitting it. " Fair enough. I might have done or said things that have come off as racist or hateful, but I really have no intention of doing so. The only thing I dislike are people who see themselves as being higher than others. However, Fluffers are a pretty degenerate bunch... You are right, I'm at fault there. I still love you Fluffers regardless.
"I could care less if you like me or not " I don't even know you, so how could I decide if I like you or not?
All I know is that we see things differently where it comes to "Freedom" and who should be given fair treatment. What ever happened to amnesty? Sure, control the borders better, but give a person a break if he or she is trying to make a life over here.
You've got to admit that the whole system sucks. I'm not saying that communism is better at all. I just think human societies suck all together. If any change starts to happen, people like you are going to start shooting your guns and drawing your lines. Things change regardless. Things will probably change for the worse. But, If people don't focus on the needs of humanity rather than their own selfish political, religious, or material dogmas then we are all fucked no matter what you do or say.
I also just don't see why you have to paint everything as black and white. This thread really is dead. We have gotten your points. You've blocked out ours. Such is life.
Now let's go ride.
Joe Borfo responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.29.10 - 7:53 pm
I also just don't see why you have to paint everything as black and white. This thread really is dead. We have gotten your points. You've blocked out ours. Such is life.
haha what do you expect from someone who thinks Obama was born in Kenya?
If you want the big ass penthouse in the middle of the big city with all the trimmin's, then you work extremely hard for it.
Fun Facts About the American Dream, #117:
In terms of income inequality, the US ranks right between Cameroon and Uruguay, and the gap between rich and poor (or even the just between the rich and the middle class) has only been getting wider. Apart from a little bit of improvement during the dot-com bubble, income inequality in the US has been steadily increasing since the 70s.
So yeah, people living in penthouses have, for the most part, been born into that economic class, just as people living in trailer parks have been born into theirs, and all economic forces in this country are working to keep things that way. Upward social mobility is one of those convenient fictions that we still hold onto in America, probably because it gives the poor a sense of hope and the rich a sense of smug self-justification.
"Thanks Eddie for posting this thread no B.S.
It has made me realize just how racist I am.
At least I gave you the perspective of the old angry White guy.
What is the solution ?"
Dedicated818
responding to a comment by eddieboyinla
03.29.10 - 6:25 pm
I could care less if you like me or not
This thread did help me realize my racism
Dedicated818
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
03.29.10 - 7:21 pm
-----
I'm not sure whats worse: those who hide their racism or those who are comfortable admitting they're racist.
D818," What is the solution?"
I think you need to spend some time in counseling of some sorts. Work out your issues, and then return to posting. Does this realization mean as to you as insanely stupid it seems to us? Or are you just set in your ways?
I find it hard to believe that you realized your racism via a MR thread. I'm willing to bet your ass knew beforehand. But even supposing you did not, I find it hard to take you serious. If, as you report is true and you just discovered your racism, I think it is equally disappointing that you seem to care little about it, and have more of an interest on continuing to post.
Realizing you're racist seems to be one of those, you know -- BIG DEALS. You know, it's one of those things you take serious -- maybe the kind of thing you lose a little sleep over, maybe. The existentialist in me, might think otherwise, but being that I experience a degree of freedom.... I find it easy to express my freedom by saying:
If this crap continues, I for one will never attend on of your rides/races. Furthermore, I will ensure to keep noting your racist standing if you post rides. Moreover, I will make sure to note your comments on MTBR, SOCAL TRAIL RIDERS, DIRT RAG... and any other forum where we cross paths.
Its not that I dislike you. I think you articulated your views, and have now expressed your belief that you are a racist. If that means little to you, then we should let others figure out if it means something to them.
Lets see what VeloCult, and other participants of your "Reseda to the Sea Challenge" feel about having participated in your ride; shall we?
For now, get some help. I think MR is filled with some understanding and forgiving people. Many of us have made mistakes, but the key is to take serious something like this and not hide behind your old age and cliche notions of being "an angry white man". I think you have a chance to be more; give it a try.
markd responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.30.10 - 1:59 pm
Hum ? I seem to remember you posting racist statements as well.
I have just as much right to post my opinion as you, unless this has turned
into a cencored forum.
No one forces you to read or respond.
I try to give everyone a fair shake but this thread made me realize that there
is deep rooted racism in all of us.
I don't care if you attend any thing I put on,as a matter of fact your not welcome.
What events have you put on to contribute to the cycling community ?
Your little attempt to extort me on other forums is weak.
Maybe wiil meet someday lets see if you have the stones to confront me to my face.
How is it that you care more about a forum post, over the "fact" that you just realized YOURE RACIST?
We can meet if you want.
Trust me, I'm not worried about meeting you or discussing this in person. If balls have anything to do with meeting you, then I suppose you're also a racist with a propensity toward violence. If not, then what would having "stones" have anything to do with it?
Are you now being offended? I thought you wished credit due, as you spoke your mind despite the potential offense? What gives with these mixed standards.
Keep the information flowing; you're doing great.
I wouldn't attempt to extort you... i just think, given your oceanic interest in reality, facts, truth from fiction, you would have no qualms with expressing your views and others knowing.
In short: just grow up.
Maybe we can ride together and discuss your issues about Mexicans. I just so happen to be Mexican, so unless you read my posts as some kid surprised that racism exists.... Im more interested in helping shape your opinion.
At the end of the day: its your legacy to shape. Who will Dedicated818 be remembered as? So far you've changed opinions about you. You seem to take it as martyrdom to free speech, where others just it is as sloppy thinking and irrational hatred.
Maybe its time to just settle down, and take serious your new discovery; how about address that instead of forum posts?
markd responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.30.10 - 2:43 pm
No problem dude. Honestly, I wish you well. If I have any racist feelings, notions, and such within me... then hopefully I'll weed them out. Life is in an ongoing examination for many, so I'll take more serious whatever racist comments you may be alluding to.
You seemed to care more about my suggestion about posting on other threads, rather than my suggestions that you're probably better than the racism you see in yourself. I doubt you're a fucked up individual.
If Im spewing racism on this forum, then I should be held accountable too -- I agree. If thats something Im doing, then you can be assured that I'll take the time to work these things out.
Dedicated... just show some signs of..fuck I dont know... some signs that this is more serious to you in your posts. You come across as being so indifferent to this supposed realization that you're racist. You come across as having a degree of hatred/disgust toward Mexicans.
Are you really convinced that all you have to offer in return is: Well i see racism in others, and I have the right to speak my mind, and I dont care if others are offended????
Come on dude, people are reading this.... and I for one, am sitting here waiting for a least a sense of remorse or sign that this is a little more serious to you -- because really.... its about YOU at this point. I see you're directing it on me now, which is fine, I'm all for changing and growing up if thats the case.
If you want me to examine myself for whatever racism exists, then I will. Feel free to explain. Maybe we both can spend some time taking serious more of the underlying racial issues that we may have? What do you say?
markd responding to a comment by Dedicated818
03.30.10 - 3:19 pm
-->
Ridazz Roulette!
^ Over 60 percent of America thinks like this, folks...
Whale...
Yes, turning attention to businesses that operate illegally as opposed to focusing solely on the immigrants themselves, is one part of the equation.
I THINK THAT DOUCH-ICATED818 IS
I'd rather shoot myself.
I made it to the Klunker Run.
Make Out
I take it back ...
.
My SPOON is too BIG!!!
Can I call you Pinkie now?
My panties only have one color - BLACK.
It is your density.