NOTE: All timestamps are in the future because WE are in the future. The care takers of Midnight Ridazz.com reserves the right to remove, edit, move or delete anything for any reason. None of the opinions expressed on these boards represent the Midnight Ridazz nor can anyone purport to speak on behalf of Midnight Ridazz.
its bullshit that this website supports a ride guided by the LAPD. they are a force that is working against the people of america. critical mass is an un-politicized international movement and the police are using it to make them look good and create false pr. they are playing politics with our freedoms and its not cool. the ride should no longer stop at the same regular spots and should not support a police detail at the front. its cheesy and sf critical mass would never stand for it. speak out. this is bullshit. i will ride next month one more time to see if it changes but if yall do what you did this month i am out. know your enemy. solidarity. one love.
UMmmmm... Yeah .. Best Critical Mass I have ever been on .. I missed riding with the cops the first go around and was a little .. so so about riding with them .... I was shocked how much fun it was ... LACM didn't sell out ...Motorist looked at us as cyclist and not assholes blocking traffic, screaming fuck you and causing problems ....... If this is what it takes to make everyone safe ... so be it .....
You're making it sound like they're leading the ride or choosing the route, which they aren't. One way of looking at it is that their presence actually legitimizes LACM to some degree. Think about it, they were on CM before this ... beating people up and issuing frivolous citations. They're still here but now they're much more restrained and they're actually corking for us. Plus, their presence makes it far less likely that some psychotic driver is going to direct violence against us.
I think Critical Mass is a politicized movement (political in the broad sense, not referring to partisan politics). I mean, due to the leaderless format the movement doesn't have any *official* goals but it has almost always been intended to raise the profile of cyclists and advocate for the rights of cyclists. I think the fact that the LAPD is being forced to treat us with more respect instead of just cracking down on us, and the fact that it seems like they're making an effort to take our concerns more seriously is a big victory for us.
The real question, for me, is whether this is for real and permanent or if they're just going to revert back to the old way once Manny's police brutality case blows over and what not. If they start treating us like we're all criminals or beating people up again, I will agree with you 100%.
With that being said, I agree the ride needs some new routes and new stops ... if only for the sake of keeping it interesting / having some variety.
you made many points and i am just going to try to cover a couple without get too lenghty..
one, most LAPD that are present are just doing their jobs to support themselves and their family...they are just taking orders... we do not know if the officers their really want to be there or not... they may not but that is assignment....
two, what are you upset about... that streets are corked by police officers instead of just riders? and that those corkers have been cited before... is that any better?
three, I do agree this could be a PR campaign and officials above are studying, analyzing, and working on techniques this to see how they can either make it run smoother or deter it.... a squad car that was riding with the group was filming.... for???
topics not covered, freedom, authority, CM evolving, know your enemy (levels), and that you seem to be talking about the system itself and you see police as a representative to keeping the system functioning....
and to Borfo and i think it is trickmilla (you guys are very active and have great ideas, nothing against you guys).... but LAPD did cork santa monica and wilshire... and for that matter many more streets.... now i know trickmilla is going to say this is an exception only for CM i suppose.... and Borfo will continue to say that its still safer and better for large groups to not cork and stop at all reds.... and that CM needs to evolve... i for one think it is evolving right before us.... whether it is evolving for what you may or may not want is a different story....
Correct me if i am wrong but i'm pretty sure sfcm is escorted by the police as well every month. Personally i think we sent a great message with the police escorting us. It put bicycles in the forefront and the cars had no choice but to acknowledge us as equals on the streets..... even if it was just for a short time.
CM is escorted by police in many other cities across the country and globe (I know Dublin, Ireland's ride is for a fact). While there is a robust arguments against the level of police presence in our live sin the good ol' USA, LAPD riding with us is a two way exchange. We are being treated like real citizens while the police are coming to a better understanding of what we as a community need from OUR police force.
For at least the two years I have ridden LA Critical Mass, the police and the riders were at odds with each other. Now it seems the city and the politicians can't ignore 1500 bicyclists riding on a Friday night enmass, maybe because they don't want to lose votes and they also realize that bike riding is a possible solution to our massive traffic and air pollution project.
So now LAPD and the LA Critical Mass work together. Keeping the group together, LAPD blocks intersections so the ride gets through the streets faster, safer and more efficiently. This actually lessens the traffic problem, eliminates altercations with motorists and makes the city look bicycle-friendly and environmentally-advanced.
Last night thousands of tourists (who spend hundreds of millions in LA) lined the streets of Hollywood Blvd, taking pictures and video of the riders as they were escorted down the street. They cheered and waved on the bicyclists. The tourists will now go home and tell their friends and neighbors that they saw hundreds and hundreds of bicycles parading through the streets of Hollywood. A sight they may never have seen before in their life.
LA Critical Mass did not "sell out", the object was to make bicycling a legitimate form of transportation. A viable means to traverse the city. I would say that LACM has finally made its point, and the city has decided to join them instead of fighting them.
I believe LACM did not " sell out " . There is no money being made off CM, there is not a reality TV show about ridazz or corp. sponsorship. If and when that happens, then yes, we have sold ourselves out. "Selling out" to means just that "selling" . As fare as the LAPD... and city level politicians ... dont trustum ... with all their hidden agendas.
I'm sorry benobody, but your statements are unfounded. Cyclists, being an under-represented/misunderstood segment of the population, need all the allies we can get. Based on the responses I observed at the LAPD's opening statements at the beginning of the ride (little to no booing/hissing this time), the majority of the cycling community supports the LAPD/LACM alliance. Looks like you're in the out buddy :-
Its a valid opinion, that many people hold:
Some people simply believe that anybody who works for the government, police, or military are part of the problem. period. I'm not of that opinion.
I treat people how I want to be treated, which is to say that I judge people based on their words and actions, not by their associations and appearances.
CM is a cultural virus.
It can never come down to one person or one groups interests.
CM is just an idea, and a fluid one, which is why it can never be destroyed or fully controlled.
CM didn't "sell out"
there is nothing to sell.
But CM as a whole has been willing to cooperate with police because right now, frankly, what they are doing makes for a pretty fun ride for most people.
If somebody does not like how this incarnation of LACM is operating they can start a different CM at a different location or at a different time. LA is a huge city with lots of different people and certainly there are a lot of people who will agree that LAPD has no place at LACM. Find them. Ride with them if you like.
But for better or worse the majority of people seem pretty happy having the cops corking for us instead of kicking at us.
I don't think this particular incarnation of LACM is perfect. But most people seem to like it so far.
If i had to choose between an NYC style of CM and an SF style that is police crackdown vs. police support ... I'm picking support. CM is for everybody, the cops just finally figured out they are part of everybody.
and don't you think that cops are regular people just like you and me who have a crappy job.
you don't think they would rather be doing what they enjoy than dealing with dickheads on bikes who don't care about the rules of the road or common courtesy.
i got a pair of tickets face value $200. i'll let them go for $25 each. don't miss this opportunity... you can brag to all your friends how you were at the LACM.
The whole point of critical mass is to raise awareness of cycling's legitimacy on the streets. A positive and helpful police presence, as opposed to an antagonistic one, does nothing but buttress that goal.
NO SFCM DOES NOT HAVE A POLICE ESCORT. i first rode sfcm in 1999 and there was no police escort then and there is no police escort now. and ps. when we stopped at the riteaid on sunset and western i went to the top of the home depot parking lot across the street and there were blatant fbi or undercover whatever the fucks surveying from up there with radios and weapons. its obvious they are scared of the unity of CM and they are on their heels to spin it into positive pr for the machine and those of you who dont know what "the machine" is its called the new world order and its an internationally controlled police state being put into place throughout the world to keep 3rd world countries from organizing and prevailing. its ran by the wto, the g8, the interlocking conglomerates of mainstream media and the monopolies of food, drug and energy sectors. if you arent educated and dont understand sociology thats fine and i respect your idealist mindset to co-operate with oppressive law enforcement agencies...although i dont agree with you and will no longer support critical mass. there are two forces at play on this planet. one fights for unity from a people's stand point and one fights for unity from a evil machines standpoint. i support the free people. that is all. save our mother earth first. respect and love thy neighbor. protect your family from all forms of oppression and freedom, liberty and JUSTICE for all. (justice is not fines and parking tickets and violations of minor consequence followed by severe penalties and imprisonment) our parents did not buy into the new world order and un-necessary wars of greed. our parents STOPPED VIETNAM. its fine if you want to let critical mass become yet another useless tool of propaganda for an evil empire. you win. peace out. -B
The words you speak now will come to light in due time. The first truth will come when someone realizes the cost associated with a police led bike ride through the streets of L.A. What happens after that will speak volumes to what they're doing now.
I'm not against it, but believe me when I say, some taxpayer(s) will have a problem with $ involved and then the shit will hit the fan. In the end, the question will be...?
""I'm picking support. CM is for everybody, the cops just finally figured out they are part of everybody. " -trickmilla
hear hear!
....... I started riding with MR about 3 years ago.. and I don't know if it's just me or just coincidence with which rides I've chosen.. but I've noticed that the cops have gotten a lot more used to seeing gigantic groups of bicyclists and just letting us be. Overall it seems like cops have gotten a little less aggressive with us. Of course sometimes they try to break us up and whatnot, but OVERALL.. from the rides *i've* been on anyway.. they don't seem as scary as they used to. But anyway, it's nice to have cooperation with the cops, it's a step in the right direction. and i don't think CM was intended to have any sort of strict political or counter culture type message... it's just another fucking bike ride.
Antranik responding to a comment by trickmilla
08.1.10 - 12:33 am
In case you haven't noticed, police are videotaping the critical mass rides (san fernando included). It's very possible that they're building a case so that the city will require permits for large rides like New York. Just because the police aren't doing anything while watching us be jackasses, doesn't mean they're not taking notes. So, enjoy the escort while it still happens, but don't be a dick and abuse their support (like hitting cars at intersections).
Yeah... hopefully we can go back to the good ol days of riding really dangerously on our brakeless single speeds and leaving tons of trash behind, because thats what riding bikes is really about? By the way, why dont you tell the police they are not welcome, or do you have a better idea of how to get rid of them?
Heres an intresting video that has no police in it!
just admit it. Midnight ridazz is a sold out organization that is in bed with the machine that keeps down the people of color here in america and throughout the world. you are sheep. clones and your message is dead now because you sided with the green octopus. most of you are probably too young to have actually read real history books such as "the people's history of the united states" by howard zinn, and you probaby dont actually understand who cesar chavez what and what he stood for and martlin luther king and him started and you must not understand that the LAPD is the most racist police force in the nation and that even the people of color they hire are racist elitists trying to oppress the people they came from. you are no longer something i will ride with or contribute to and critical mass is just another parade for your lost causes. enjoy the neo-fascist imperialist regime that you support and the genocide it dictates in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN and PALESTINE and enjoy that it keeps mexico in poverty when LOS ANGELES USED TO BE MEXICO WHEN MY GREAT GRANDPARENTS WERE HERE. enjoy your capitalistic hypocritical non-sensical complacent lives and don't for get to vote for the democrats since they are doing so much for the people of america. enjoy the new world order. goodbye. love -B
that may all be true.... but if you want to ride a bicycle, it helps to have the good will of the police considering that the oppressors of bicycle riding (car drivers) are also subject to police authority.
and Midnight Ridazz from the very beginning -I know, because I am one of the original 8 - was always looking for a good relationship with LAPD and car drivers. ALWAYS. The first thing posted on the front page was a "Ridazz salute the LAPD" message so I'm not sure why you are surprised....
I agree with you on everything else you said. But you deal with the issues concerning the particular cause in question... LAPD relations with bicycle riders has nothing to do with US imperialism all of which I am disgusted by. but bringing US imperialism into the bicycle riding issue is not going to progress bicycle rider's rights.
no. thats false. the reason we have laws that protect us is to protect us. we dont need police to ride along side us pretending to protect us. the reason they are riding along side us is to create a slience and to bring a cloud of fear over the organizing of the mass. they dont want people to speak out against the govt in a crowd of nearly 2000 people that would mostly agree because it could potentially become a powerful force and even politicize itself and structure itself to create a revolution. they dont give a shit about the safety of bicyclists otherwise they would be putting in BIKE LANES. if you notice how prfectly paved the streets of beverly hills are? have you noticed that they do contruction and roadwork around the clock in BH? have you noticed the urban and working class areas of town have streets that havent been paved in half a century? are you completely asleep and dont understand political racism and classism? do you understand the class war going on since nixon? have awoken to the fact that the only people that care about your well being are your peers and that each generation is trying to keep you down and oppressed more and more as you go up the ladder past the baby boomers into the nixoners...? do you realize that CM is now just a pawn in the LAPDs chess game of keeping the working class down? now you are abiding by the laws that you didnt even vote for and have no unity to overturn. and you let them get away with locking up your brothers and sisters for non-sensical bullshit crimes such as using drugs that are readlily supplied by the cia. you people want to buy in to the machine. you want to live in 1984. you want to support the genocide of so many indigenous people by shaking the hands of the LAPD that is fine. i wont be a part of it. ps. BOYCOTT WALMART. BOYCOTT WALMART. BOYCOTT WALMART.
you ARE WRONG. US IMPERIALISM HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BICYCLE RIGHTS. WHY ARE WE IN IRAQ? WHY ARE WE IN AFGANHISTAN? WHY ARE WE ABOUT TO INVADE IRAN? OIL. OIL. OIL. why do we ride bikes? TO PROTEST THE BLOOD ON THE HANDS OF EVERY PERSON WHO BUYS GAS EVERYDAY. IF YOU DRIVE A CAR THEN THE BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS. now we all must at times use a vehicle to transport equipment or things or whatever but we can all ride most of the time and not use a car. musicians for example need to use them to transport themselves and gear. BUT BOYCOTT BP. BOYCOTT EXXON. BOYCOTT SHELL. BOYCOTT WALMART. BIKES ARE THE SILENT PROTEST. by supporting the LAPD you are dhaking hands with the evil empire. you go right ahead.
Just because the law protects cyclists rights *on paper* doesn't mean those rights are respected *in reality*. All too often, cars act antagonistically towards cyclists and endanger lives. Police often didn't give a damn (and in some cities still don't, quite openly). The fact that the LAPD is there and that they're not just cracking down on us *has* made the ride safer. On last month's CM a cyclist got hit by a car and the police helped him out and tried to catch the motorist (if I recall correctly). The past two months there have been very few instances of cars trying to drive into the pack or people getting out of their car and trying to start fights. I also disagree that it's created a "cloud of fear" ... this month's CM was HUGE. If anything, the increased safety and lack of drama is bringing more people out!
I agree with you that more cyclists = less gas connever= less cause for U.S. imperialism. But please try to envision what the world would have to look like for cycling to be a viable MASS form of transportation in L.A. It would not be a world where cyclists have to face hostility from cars and cops everywhere. It would have to be a world where the police respect us, where they enforce the legal protections we have and where cycling is somewhat normalized and a part of the status quo. Neither the LAPD nor the L.A. political structures are completely static institutions.
Also, you're silly if you think Critical Mass could ever be a revolutionary force. Come on ... a huge chunk of CM are high-school kids, hipsters who mostly care about fashion/trends, and so on. Truthfully, most people on CM probably don't even watch TV news let alone investigate global economic structures or imperialism. The most CM could be in that regard is some unfocused, drunken riot or something. In that regard, you kind of sound like a classic agent provocateur working for the police in that something like that would give the LAPD cause to crack down HARD on any group rides in the city. Its better if CM just stays focused on raising the profile of cyclists in the city and trying to get more respect for our rights on the road ...
OK, well I'm going to get on my silent protest and go enjoy this fine Sunday afternoon then. I'm sure these here internets would be grateful if you did the same. It's tough work, this silent protest, but somebody's got to do it.
Perhaps there should be a 10-day waiting period when someone buys a car.
And there should also be limits to how much horsepower the engine should be able to crank out at maximum.
"""Also, you're silly if you think Critical Mass could ever be a revolutionary force. Come on ... a huge chunk of CM are high-school kids, hipsters who mostly care about fashion/trends, and so on. Truthfully, most people on CM probably don't even watch TV news let alone investigate global economic structures or imperialism. The most CM could be in that regard is some unfocused, drunken riot or something. In that regard, you kind of sound like a classic agent provocateur working for the police in that something like that would give the LAPD cause to crack down HARD on any group rides in the city. Its better if CM just stays focused on raising the profile of cyclists in the city and trying to get more respect for our rights on the road..."""
so there you have it people, you are just stereotypes as this guy says, you are "high-school kids and hipsters who only care about fashion"...americans are so afraid of real change that they constantly build fences instead of bridges between each other and lump each other into stereotypes and yes i feel that a small handful of powerful concerned citizens can change the world, in fact if you have ever studied history in most cases it was exactly those who did....i will be uniting people through a different site from now on since apathy and joining sides with the oppressive forces seems to be the status quo of "midnight ridazz" and here i thought i had joined a revolution of radical brothers and sisters but like you so blatantly stereotyped everyone into just hipsters with fashion sense and bikes i will move on to less scared, apathetic, complacent sheep and unite people who are actually willing to use activism to change things elsewhere. che lives. cesar chavez lives, milk lives. jfk lives. rfk lives. dr. king lives...ciao.
Midnight Ridazz is a revolution that won't be televised. There won't be violence, because Midnight Ridazz is about the most revolutionary concept in history. It's about love. The LAPD started by hating us. But just like every other class, every other race, every political ideology, we don't show violence we show love. we are slowly loving the lapd into the group. That's Ghandi level revolution.
Roadblock responding to a comment by benobody
08.1.10 - 10:58 pm
and as for benobody... your posts are quite interesting, you sound kinda extreme but those run on sentences have a lot of energy behind them and I commend that passion you have for life. it's pretty cool, i'd say. you should remember though.. not everybody rides their bikes because oil is murder... i mean.. like seriously, oil is used everywhere.. your bicycle tires are made of it too, remember? a lot of us ride our bicycles... cause it's fun, healthy and liberating.. there might not be more to it for some.
@roadblock. who said anything about violence? why do my words seem to frighten all you people? is it that you sense a growing urgency in america to fight the powers that be? is it because you listen to old rage against the machine songs and finally understand what he was singing about and finally know that shit needs to change but you are too scared that it will cause anarchy? i am part of a movement and anarchy is not our goal. you bring up ghandi but ghandi would not have stood by any of americas domestic or foreign policy of the last 30 years. you have actually read about his life and what he stood for? read this:
"Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state has become lawless or corrupt. And a citizen who barters with such a state shares in its corruption and lawlessness...Every citizen is responsible for every act of his government...There is only one sovereign remedy, namely, non-violent non-cooperation. Whether we advertise the fact or not, the moment we cease to support the government it dies a nature death....My method is conversion, not coercion, it is self-suffering, not the suffering of the tyrant....I hope the real Swaraj (self-rule) will come not by the acquisition of authority by the few but by the acquisition by all of the courage to resist authority when abused. In other words, Swaraj is to be attained by education the masses to a sense of their capacity to regulate ad control authority.... Civil disobedience is the assertion of a right which law should give but which it denies...Civil disobedience presupposes willing obedience of our self-imposed rules, and without it civil disobedience would be cruel joke....Civil disobedience means capacity for unlimited suffering without the intoxicating excitement of killing....Disobedience to be civil has to be open and nonviolent....Disobedience to be civil implies discipline, thought, care, attention...Disobedience that is wholly civil should never provoke retaliation....Non-cooperation and civil disobedience are different but [are] branches of the same tree call Satyagraha (truth-force).... Coercion cannot but result in chaos in the end....One who uses coercion is guilty of deliberate violence. Coercion is inhuman....Non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as cooperation with good... Nonviolent action without the cooperation of the heart and the head cannot produce the intended result....All through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall, always."
if you support the LAPD then you support the laws domestic and foreign that contribute to the highest incarceration rate of prisons and jails in the world (2.7 million americans) half of which are for minor probation violations and drug offenses which is owned by private corporations and profits off of the prisoners in a form of modern slavery especially since most of the prisoners are people of color. your organization is a front to turn LACM into a pawn in the govt regime. the critical mass in other cities does allow some police escorting but not in the surveilance and fear tactics that the LAPD are using. they have multiple video cameras and multiple undercovers waiting at tall the the pit-stops such as pan park and the western and sunset stop. its bullshit that you allow them to monitor you like sheep and study you and classify you and judge you and write you fines for crossing the street. yes i got a j-walking ticket in hollywood for $250 dollars from some programmed monkey cop that wanted to get his jollies off by ruining my day. you know what? ive been hit by two cars in my life and both times it was on the signal and in the cross walk and i will cross the damn street wherever i feel safe. so you people go ahead and sell out and hold hands with the NAZIS. go ahead and accept your neo-fascist police state and when your friends are in prison for crossing the street or for riding a bike without a helmet or for some other non-sensical bullshit law that is coming soon you will look back and think "damn maybe we should have done something sooner instead of join hands with evil"...
seems like everyone doesnt know what sell out means. let me help you guys out
"Selling out" refers to the perception that someone is compromising their integrity, morality, or principles in exchange for money or "success" (however defined). It is commonly associated with attempts to tailor material to a mainstream audience. Any artist who expands their creative path to encompass a wider audience, as opposed to continuing in the genre and venues of their initial success, may be disdainfully labeled by disapproving fans as a sellout. Selling out is often seen as gaining success at the cost of credibility.
so ummmm yeah he has a point. cm is a big sell out. this last ride was funnyer than shit and proved he point. the ride goes to BH on a layed out route. goes to the courthouse and then follows the police guide on geting the fuck out of BH. it was like welcome to BH, let us show you the door out!!!!! hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!
benobody, give this cm a couple of more months and things will be back to normal. the people incharge of it right now have no staying power cause they got better things to do like writing on their blogs and drving to crapy restrurant with their fucked date. I look at these rides as the 'grown up' rides lol there just in it to biuld up there resumee. they dont give a fuck about the riders.
I do like the idea of making complants about all the police force used for the ride. I wonder who would be a good group to contact?
oh yeah and someone said that the reason why theres more riders is because the police are there. no the reason why there are more riders is because they saw the video of Manny geting his ass kicked for video taping an arrest on hollywood. which is alos the reason the cops are on the ride today, because they fucked up really bad. and they will do it again.
"americans are so afraid of real change that they constantly build fences instead of bridges between each other and lump each other into stereotypes"
indeed, like making the assumption that anybody who would want to be a police officer is doing that job out of a desire to further racist, classest, oppression.
benobody,
I'm wondering where you have been in the fight for cyclists rights lately?
Do you go to BAC meetings?
Do you attend rallys to reform hit and run laws?
Are you out there organizing? contributing?
or are you just on forums shouting long live the Obama of the 60's (JFK).
Many people you are calling "sheep" i have seen working day in and day out to try and get real improvements in this city to make the streets safer for all of us.
They are working with (and pressuring) LAPD, LADOT, MTA, and Local government to to Educate ridazz and drivers, to improve infrastructure, to change laws, and influence politicians.
You can sit there and proclaim that our entire system is corrupt and needs to be overthrown in an revolution, but at the end of the day, that isn't going to do shit to make the roads safer for us.
I respect revolutionary thought. But not when it is one-dimensional.
MLK is lionized BECAUSE HE INFLUENCED GOVERNMENT because he knew how to negotiate with politicians, he knew ho to negotiate to get what was important for the people he was representing.
And guess what.
Many a revolutionary called him a "sell out".
Meanwhile the FBI was holding a file on him that was a few feet thick.
MLK did not give a fuck.
He pressed ahead. And worked for the people he loved.
He didn't listen to the haters to his right or to his left.
He defied his whitest and his blackest critics and kept on until he as martyred.
While MLK and Malcom X did not agree with each other's tactics they respected each other and came to understand that they were both working for a common goal, even if their methods are different.
You are welcome to use different methods that the scores of dedicated bike activists who have chosen to work with the police and city government.
But please get out there an do something for the bike advocacy other than sloppily referencing a slew 60's political icons.
and if you haven't already, watch The Critical Mass Documentaries so you have a real understanding of history and context of why CM riders are doing what they are doing and why.
"benobody, give this cm a couple of more months and things will be back to normal. the people incharge of it right now have no staying power cause they got better things to do like writing on their blogs and drving to crapy restrurant with their fucked date."
can you expand on this a bit? why will things be back to normal in a couple months? and who doesn't have staying power? what's that in regards to? i'm just curious to know... do the cops historically always tend to get involved for a little bit to show they are playing nice and then don't do anything?
Antranik responding to a comment by fixie4life
08.1.10 - 11:59 pm
Dude, you just joined the MR forum yesterday. Where have you been? The "revolution" was going on without you for years. Sorry, but the veteran riders of the "revolution" have endured hit and run injuries, tickets, handcuffs, batons, jail, Hummers running over our bikes, swerving SUV drivers, hatred from Ralphs store managers, attacks by angry gang members with shovels and bottles, and gunshot wounds. We have ridden our bikes in the face of adversity that you may never experience in a lifetime. If you're looking for an Anarchist group, you've come to the wrong place. We just want to be treated equally on the road. We don't want to destroy the system. We want the system to change to accept us as equals. As far as US imperialism, that is not why ride. That's why we vote. And we will vote, (Stephen Box for CD4!) because change comes from the ballot box, not from mass destruction. MR has proven that we can change the system. Not by force, but by participating in the political process. By raising our voices in City Hall, community meetings and in the media. We are not Anarchistic radicals.We prefer beer and Jack instead of Molotov Cocktails. We rides bikes, because we love this city, we love clean air, and we just want to love everyone. We ride not to destroy property or cause mayhem, but to contribute to the community in a positive manner. We need to put our energy into prosecuting drunk drivers or angry drivers who hit bicyclists then flee. We need LAPD's help in prosecuting these crimes. Safe streets for bicyclists means safe streets for everyone.
the people acting like there our leaders. you would never see them if the ride was 100 riders big. now that its the ride to be on they are all over the place. even the owner of this site did not like cm. these 'leaders' that all now being everyones buddys wont be around much longer cas they dont like the ride. they are control freaks and they will loose control. its the same with the cops. they are in the learning steps of taking control of cm. its there makeup to be control freaks. its what they live for. the only reason they are needed right now is because they are not doing there jobs. if they arrested drivers that cause accidents and arrest drivers that drive aggressive they would not be wanted on the rides.
Understand right now that we are PLAYING WITH YOU.
Because it is FUN.
Thats why we are PLAYING with the cops.
Because those rides are FUCKING FUN.
We like to have FUN!
We are addicted to FUN!
We worship FUN.
We are FUN LOVERS
We are love revolutionaries
CM has always been a game of social experimentation.
There were no government rules against it so at first the cities did not know what to do.
The ride took on its own culture in SF including conflicts and resolutions with the city and with the cops.
NY did other experiments that had their own results.
We are trying something different.
CM is a simple tenant
It belongs to everyone. It belongs to no-one.
It is a time and a place to meet and ride bikes as a group.
That's really it.
It is up to us to experiment with society and see what we can make of it.
Right now LACM is getting a lot of attention.
It is in the interests of the cops and politicians to act like they are down with us.
They want to be green.
We can play with them, or we can fuck them off.
A lot of us would prefer to play.
We know that one of the most subversive acts in the world is to charm people in to making the world better, because they think (know) it will make them look good.
A lot of the top pols in the city, the mayor, city council, LAPD chief and on , and on.
Are starting to realize that they will look very smart and very visionary if they do the relatively simple and cheap things necessary to help make LA bike-able.
I welcome all attempts by politicians to "green-wash" their image, as long as we hold them accountable for their actions and inaction.
We are now getting voices from our community to resonate in the larger culture.
We are demanding better infrastructure, better laws, better enforcement, and better education. ie: a safe, bikeable LA.
Things move slow. But they are moving.
Its inspiring. A lot of people are pushing harder than ever.
Ya know why?
Because a love revolution is FUNner on bikes.
I don't think anybody's going to dispute that there may be a certain opportunism at work on the part of the people who like to hold the megaphones at Critical Mass (such is the nature of people who like to hold megaphones, after all), but maybe there's also a little personal vendetta here? Certain users still holding a grudge over childish* internet garbage that happened more than a year ago already, hmm?
Jesus. The internet is so dumb.
*and lest it appear that I'm taking sides, I think both parties were acting childish back then (and perhaps still are now)
what happen at 328? you can see the steps happening before it even happens. ive only been riding on the cm for about two years. my first one was january 2009. it was a news years resolution. but it plays out like a slow motion car accident. like I said it will all be back to normal in a couple of months. maybe when summer is over.
fixie4life responding to a comment by nathansnider
08.2.10 - 1:23 am
Bicycles, trains and space exploration are more efficient uses for scant petroleum deposits than the hundreds of millions of personal autos that are used for mediocre, short distance trips.
As for bicycle tires, recycled rubber and rubber trees could fill that void in a "Triple Ought" scenario.
Okay, back to the political idealogy discussion of CM, the gift that never stops giving.
"the people acting like there our leaders. you would never see them if the ride was 100 riders big. now that its the ride to be on they are all over the place."
Oh really, do you remember those rainy January CM's with 7 people?
I do, and most of the people who "lead" LACM are mainly people doing the smallest bit of organizing, being there with experience, experience created by many, many rides over a long period of time.
"even the owner of this site did not like cm."
Hmm, really?
Hey Roadblock, did you not like LACM? Really? You seemed to have fun on all the ones I've seen you on.
"these 'leaders' that all now being everyones buddys wont be around much longer cas they dont like the ride. they are control freaks and they will loose control."
I think my first post explains this one pretty well, but I dunno, if things that are common sense (like directions as to where to go, reminders to clean up after yourself, and other things which, to be honest just really help to make us look better) are being yelled out of a megaphone, I dunno if I'd call it "control".
"its the same with the cops. they are in the learning steps of taking control of cm. its there makeup to be control freaks. its what they live for."
I'm not going to say that cops don't like control, it's kind of their thing. However, the antagonistic stance required for the cops to "control" LACM and other rides was a bit of a PR disaster, so they're trying to change their tactics. We'll see how that works. But the rides belong to the people, they are the people, they're put together by the people. When the cops start posting their own rides, they can control those. Other than that the only thing they can really do on LACM is to do their jobs, and be respectful law upholding, and abiding, members of the community. I'd rather see cops be that than be there to police all of our actions.
"the only reason they are needed right now is because they are not doing there jobs. if they arrested drivers that cause accidents and arrest drivers that drive aggressive they would not be wanted on the rides."
True, they weren't doing their jobs all that well, but I think you have that a bit backwards. If they did deal with accident causing and aggressive drivers, they might have a better reception around here.
FuzzBeast responding to a comment by fixie4life
08.2.10 - 2:15 am
It wasn't a stereotype, it was a generalization and I stand by it. I would love to be proven wrong.
I'm not afraid of "real change." Over the years I've been involved in the labor, immigrant's rights and anti-war movements myself. I see two problems with your approach.
First of all, in my experience, bringing about real change usually involves understanding and then working to change the existing power structures. Sadly, you can't simply ignore or wish away oppressive conditions or people in power. Cesar Chavez's UFW negotiated directly with farm-bosses for better conditions. Harvey Milk was an elected government official, as were JFK and RFK. Dr. King worked his entire life to pass civil rights legislation, which didn't do away with the police or the legal system but simply said that all races had to treated equally by them. I'm wondering why these individuals aren't sell-outs but LACM is in your eyes? How exactly do you think we can bring about a situation where cycling is a safe, mass form of transportation in L.A. *without* having the police respect us and have a working, constructive relationship with us? Yes, they might score some P.R. points from it. And farmers still make profits off of migrant laborers despite everything Chavez did. And blacks still make up an out-of-proportion percentage of the prison population despite everything Dr. King did. It's a give and take. Just because our relationship with the LAPD isn't ideal doesn't mean we haven't made progress.
The other problem is that, if you're looking to make broader (beyond the issue of cycling) political change, I think you're looking in the wrong place. There are a lot of people who are concerned about militarism, imperialism, the emerging surveillance state, etc. Most of them probably aren't drinking 4 Lokos in a parking lot at 11 PM on a Friday night on their fixie. I'm not hating because I *was* in that parking lot ... I'm just pointing out that most people are there to party not to organize politically. Again, I'm not saying this is the way things *should* be, just the way they appear to be to me ... I would be very happy to be proven wrong. If I were you, I would look into organizations like United For Peace & Justice, ANSWER, Food Not Bombs and so on. Those groups are much more focused on the type of activism and change you're interested in and are probably a more worthwhile place to spend our energies. Then again, if you refuse to be involved with any group that engages the existing power structure or the establishment, there probably isn't a whole lot out there for you beyond some anarchist cell or something like that. That's the nature of effecting political and social change.
This is not about 328, it is about LA critical mass. Which has had its own detractors here on this forum over the past two years. Differences in philosophy over what LA critical mass was and is, have led to some heated exchanges and probably hurt feelings. In the end LA critical mass has not only survived, it has thrived. What was the count last Friday, like 1300 riders. That is a massive ride.
LA critical mass is not really an MR ride, it is a ride where everyone and anyone is welcome to participate, even those who have argued and disagreed on this forum.
As Roadblock said, it's about love. LA critical mass is not SF Critical mass, it's not NYC critical mass. It is unique and has evolved into a celebratory monthly bicycle ride. Ride with us, even if you disagree with some of us. Engage in civil discussion, in person, with people. Don't flame or eviscerate on the forum. If you love to ride a bicycle, regardless of your political or social ideology, we are all the same.
The position you represent is one reason I tend not to trust activists. You are not interested in progress, peace, or any of the other ideals you claim to represent. Rather, what you need more than anything is an enemy against which you can define yourself. You claim to represent the will of iconic revolutionary figures, many of whom now serve as caricatures for one side in a cultural battle that ended before you were even born. The idea of a police officer also being a human being sickens you.
Your heart, however, may be in the right place. I encourage you to continue your struggle. The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.
Actions of this megaphone holder have been totally opportunistic. Not in the sense of taking selfish advantage of circumstances, but in the sense that I'm doing my part, and I see other leaders doing theirs, to grab this opportunity and maximize it. Who here thought they would see any MR ride leader talking over a LAPD cart broadcast system as Roadblock did? Or standing next to the 2nd in command of West Bureau as he explains how he has had rocks thrown at him while riding to a crowd of a thousand?
I put to you that more riders are coming out because they've heard that you don't have to fear getting a ticket, or a beat down from LAPD anymore. I'm sure that we'll have some future conflict, I think Manny should pursue his suit with vigor, and I know that LAPD rank and file isn't perfectly bike friendly (handcuffing cyclists for example) but this is a huge sea change.
I wish that some of the vocal poor spellers here (use your in browser spell check) would spend less time reading 911Truth and instead get in bed with Saul Alinsky's Rules For Radicals, or bone up on history. Growing LACM and knitting new relationships amongst riders and between riders and LAPD is the best route to success.
I come back to this - we're in new territory. This is the frontier, the undiscovered country. I am afraid as are others about what might happen here. But I'm going to act anyway - I'm not going to be held back by fear. May 28th and June 25th mark a two point U-turn in the history of cycling in Los Angeles, and it is the best opportunity for change that we've ever had. We must take it!
My actions will be directed at growing LACM, toward bringing new riders into the fold, and taking them from LACM virgin to MR die hard, to political activist. Having LAPD's support and an ever growing ride, and being worried about what might happen down the road, that's a good problem to have. Let's push the ride, make it awesomR, and see what happens.
go ahead and accept your neo-fascist police state and when your friends are in prison for crossing the street or for riding a bike without a helmet or for some other non-sensical bullshit law that is coming soon you will look back and think "damn maybe we should have done something sooner instead of join hands with evil"... - benobody
A police state is a state in which status determines law enforcement outcomes, instead of law. By that definition, I'd say we're not doing that well. I think the Mahdavi verdict and the Grant verdict are good examples of status playing too much of a role in the outcome.
But you don't get from a police state to a state which respects laws by severing ties between police in citizens. Police officers interacting with cyclists, police officers riding with cyclists, police officers on bikes - these are not the images of a police state. The images of police state are police in riot gear, police in tanks, police sporting tear gas.
Establishing ties between the cycling community and law enforcement is a move in the right direction. It helps eliminate privilege by giving cyclists greater access to law enforcement - the elimination of privilege occurs when all have the privilege. Putting police amongst the people they police increases civility, empathy, and creates a stronger bond between police and citizens. With such bonds citizens have leverage to address the injustice you speak of. These are the hallmarks of a state which is civilized, not a police state.
I think this is exactly why Im uncertain about supporting LAPD and LACM. I believe we're acting in bad faith by giving the "image" of LAPD + Cyclist as having a positive spin on LAPD as an entity or lets say the culture of LAPD.
We would be extremely narrow minded to ignore the larger application of the LAPD and the abuses of such a legalized entity that acts more like a brotherhood.
but I have to admit the potential for CYCLISTS is good, but does that mean bike culture just takes a utilitarian approach to ethics? I dont know.
As Ive kind of said in some other post. You cant just allow anyone to support you even if it means there will be faster and guaranteed results. An analogy that comes to mind is the documentary I just watched: The Two Escobars.
With the right backing Colombian soccer made it to the World Cup, but that same support was it's downfall. The confusing aspect is that without the support of the cartels, Colombian soccer doesn't exist.
Two questions:
1) What is Los Angeles bike culture with the LAPD?
2) And without?
Im not sure how I feel about it as a cyclist.
md2 responding to a comment by Alex Thompson
08.2.10 - 11:10 am
Do you honestly think this progress toward a change for LAPD as a whole? Or just specifically cyclist?
If the latter, then as a cyclist, I have a nagging feeling like I'm betraying others. If, as you seem to indicate, this is headed in the right direction -- I'm curious what the "right direction" means.
If I could really believe this was a movement to a change in the overall culture of LAPD, then I think I would feel better.
I put to you that more riders are coming out because they've heard that you don't have to fear getting a ticket, or a beat down from LAPD anymore.
No. Actually there were about a thousand last month as well, and we came expecting a beat down. Before last month's ride there was fear at what was going to take place. The police handed out memos telling us to obey all traffic laws and that we would be ticketed if we didn't.
I enjoyed the rides last month and this month immensely, though I was a little bit disappointed in the route selection, and that some of the ride peeled off and went back to the westside after Beverly Hills. That was less than an hour after we started riding!
What happened to Venice Critical Mass? Why did that die while LACM exploded?
gregb responding to a comment by Alex Thompson
08.2.10 - 11:21 am
BEST LACMs now that LAPD is with us.. but i wonder how many of you ridaz know that you ride with LAPD and LASD more often than you think....
'cops arent bad people.. just stupid asses get mad for getting busted for things they shouldnt be doing to begin with....
cooperating with LAPD is safer and less hectic for everyone involved. no one gets hit by cars.. LAPD corks for us so that not even a rida gets left behind cause he was corking...traffic flows.. the only ones really getting upset are those that dont know how to have a good time without getting trashed n faded...
those not knowing how to ride fix geared without breaks .. and kept crashing into others including cops whom snapped at them....
i would guess to say that also the bike theifs that like to prey on those riders whom didnt bring a lock along their ride...
if you dont like riding with LAPD... then dont come out to critical mass...
I was at the lead this month with a couple of others.. coordinating with the cops nice safe routes, making sure roads were closed up ahead allowing us to just ride or die!
there are COUNTLESS other rides that go on the other 30 days of the month.. even on LACM night.. go to them if the LAPD scare you or just dont tickle your fansy!
I have enjoyed having the police around the last two rides. It gives us a legitimacy in the eyes of the car drives waiting when they see the motorcycle officers riding with us. It also cut down on the massive amount of knuckleheaded rider behavior I had seen on my previous CMes the past few years. Another benefit is that it keeps the group together so that there seem to be less gaps and fewer stranglers.
While riding up that small street to Hollywood Boulevard, there was an overweight 25-35 year old male standing on the sidewalk. "This is the greatest thing I have ever seen!" he shouted in amazement as we rode on by.
I love reactions like that, and we received so many great reactions all over town Friday night.
3 bad things:
1) A rider got a ticket for running a red light while amidst the pack heading west on Burton Way. A sheriff's car rode with us for a block, picked out a rider and pulled him over. I guess we were in West Hollywood for a block or two, allowing the Sheriff's to have jurisdiction, and they used it.
2) While leaving Beverly Hills heading east on Santa Monica, a BHPD officer told us as I was riding by, "Don't come back!" I think that means we need a BHCM.
3) While clearing out the CVS parking lot, the LAPD said "We gave you a good ride, now go home." This shows me the still dual nature of the ride. We got along well with the bicycle officers--they ride with us and interact with us and are friendly. The motorcycle cops don't like us. They aren't friendly. And they seem to think that they are doing us a favor, rather than performing their duties.
@Hallucin8 REALLY great points right here... pretty much articulates everything I could have hoped to say...
@fuzz believe it. I spoke out against CM in the early days on this forum. at one time I believed the hype that CM was about radicals protesting car drivers and shouting angrily at car dirvers to "get a bike"... but once I went on an LACM I found out it was all the people I already knew from Midnight Ridazz rides and that it wasn't about shouting at car drivers.... for the most part.... and Allen is right, I wont be there for every LACM... but I do love what LACM is right now. It's mostly the youngsters from the inner city. They are the future of Los Angeles. They need a place to get out and run and explore the city. A bike is the perfect way to do it. These are the next generations that I hope will continue to ride and stay agile and fit and forge new friendships and continue the pressure for a better city made for the people.
The best revolution is one that creeps in and takes hold before anyone realizes what happened. Love is that revolution and Midnight Ridazz has ALWAYS been about love, not conflict.... that love infected and created the entire bike landscape in Los Angeles, blew it up to massive proportions and even made it to the police who at first didn't get it... in the car capital of the world.... but when you walk over and talk to the cops, you can see the cracks in the rock. You can see that they all can relate in some way. I think they realize these youngsters are the future and that it's worth having a good relationship. It's still a work in progress but it's worth it.
so... Is the LAPD creeping in and taking hold of LACM? or is LACM creeping in and taking hold of LAPD? This last LACM was the biggest in Los Angeles history and for a ride that drew 1500 cyclists... LACM wouldn't be this huge if it weren't for the love.
Roadblock responding to a comment by Hallucin8
08.2.10 - 11:38 am
There were many more riders this month than last month. If you think otherwise, then you're the first I've heard that believes that. This month there were riders stacked up on the sidewalks all around Wilshire & Western, because the plaza was too packed. When Commander Smith was making his remarks to the ride, I was stunned to see probably a hundred cyclists pour out of the metro station. This ride was bigger.
@md2
I can't speak to the larger issue of LAPD much. I'm not an expert and I don't track their broader actions on anything like the level of detail that I follow Cyclist/LAPD interaction. However, I do think that Chief Beck here has a unique opportunity and is taking it.
Beck did a great deal of work when he was a Lt on the Community Police Advisory Boards - or CPABs. For each of LAPD's 21 divisions there is a CPAB, and it's where the community and LAPD see the most interaction. Like the neighborhood councils they're new, and I think they've had a good effect in terms of connecting the community and police, and thereby reigning in some of the bad practices.
He takes over as chief from Bratton. Bratton was standoffish with everyone he didn't absolutely have to answer too. He worked with the mayor and the police commission, but he even seemed to bristle at reporting to council. His staff took those cues and ran with them - take Deputy Chief Albanese and the Hummer Incident as an example. Bratton would walk through a crowd of people and not interact with them at all.
It's undisputed that Beck is a gregarious guy. I've seen him at West LA townhalls and at the BAC meetings work the room. He's turned out to be very community oriented. He's also in a unique position strategically - there is no federal consent decree and LAPD is weathering the budget crisis better than most.
If I were Beck, and I was setting my goals for my tenure, I'd make it my mission to change LAPD's relationship with the community. Things got a bit better under Bratton, and Beck finds himself in a position of strength politically. He's a naturally community oriented guy.
If I was Beck I'd start taking lots of measures to flip the script. I'd take large groups of people who commit minor traffic infractions and I'd turn them into allies. Knowing that my police force is not at it's best when it handles large crowds aggressively, I'd tell my police to err on the side of permissiveness at things like the Lakers celebration. I'd drive home the point to my officers that they are part of the community and they will work together with the community as often as possible.
I'd do that, then I'd ask for more $$.
I do think that things are improving overall, and I think that LACM is part of a pattern. I do have a question for you though.
Aren't you suggesting just what benobody is partly objecting to? Aren't you suggesting that LACM's relationship with LAPD should be dependent on LAPD's relationship with the city? If we say that, isn't that the essence of selling LACM out? LACM has always been a ride first, everything else second, even when we went to the South Central Farms way back. Why should we sell out LACM to achieve & support benobody's goals re fighting police state? Particularly if we don't even agree on the nature or extent of that problem?
plus I think most groups or persons who have had or do have some beef with the LAPD, would take the opportunity to work together to fix issues, rather than staying stubborn with their ideals / principles.
Overall, I'm probably more encouraged by the LAPD's attitude than discouraged.... Hopefully it can transfer to areas of Los Angeles that receive worse treatment by the LAPD than us bike people
md2 responding to a comment by Roadblock
08.2.10 - 11:45 am
I had a similar experience last month after the first LAPD escorted ride. at the cvs lot I walked to the other side and there was a cruiser there observing and all caught up in the euphoria I walked up to thank them, the officer told me to get away from his car and he opened his door in a threatening way... lol. I just went silent and walked away. maybe he felt like a dick after that... maybe not.
I had made the same mistake that car drivers so often make of "cyclists" I assumed that all of the LAPD think alike. they don't. just like not all cyclists think alike. so all you can do is just deal with them one by one. there are 10,000 LAPD officers. they dont all think alike and their minds don't change over night. You can try the best you can though...
Who was there when we turned the bend on Venice Blvd and smashed into a giant red sun? The pace slackened, the chatter stopped, and the police chirps silenced, and together we all just looked. Who was there for that and still says this is bad? It was amazing. Live in the present, at least a little.
wow... will it transfer to other areas? that's a good question.... probably not any time soon.... there is a lot of history in neighborhoods with LAPD problems. lots of people grew up with their families being targeted by the cops.... lots of distrust. lots of racism.... really, if you really really look at it, it's classism not racism. When a community is paying a lot of money into their police service through the tax system, the police get friendlier to the community. it's not fair, but it's the reality. lots of depressed areas in LA are warzones because of their economies, the court systems are backed up, there are no real ways to settle common disputes, people are stressed about work and raising the family, there is not many places to get out and enjoy life like the upper classes take for granted. and the cops are in the middle of it getting jaded and pre-judging people.
Beck seems like his is good for the job. I like the popo because I honestly believe they are trying to do their job. A thankless shitty proposition being a cop it is.
It could be worse. They could dig up Daryl Gates and bring him back with his strong handed approach. How'd you like them apples?
I wasn't disagreeing that July's CM was larger, or with the idea that LAPD riding with us and not against us will bring out even more riders. However your language in the statement I quoted implied that CM had grown from May til June and from June til July due to people knowing that they wouldn't get a ticket. We didn't know that in June, and June's CM was the biggest LACM i'd ever seen with more than 800 riders. At that point we didn't know the LAPD response and we still set a record attendence.
Now that we know the response, I agree that more people will come to ride with us, and I welcome them. Hopefully next summer we'll have 10,000 riders.
gregb responding to a comment by Alex Thompson
08.2.10 - 12:13 pm
Its the nature for police to have bad demeanors and act like jerks. They have been trained to think and put on that type of soldier attitude. Especially the Sheriff who have to start in the jails.
Like RB said, they are not all like that. Sgt Krumer is our liaison and he is very personable and represents what I would hope for in the service of a police officer. And Knittenz is right, Chief Beck is focused on a positive approach towards cyclists. Let's support that approach rather than that of NYPD... If you don't know what that means, don't worry about it. If the Mayor and the Police Chief is on board with bikes then the forces that serve under them will be effected in the manner in which they enforce and treat the cycling community.
It's not as bleak as the OP makes it out to be. LAPD are turning a new leaf and want to be supportive rather than oppressive. LET THEM!!!!
All this other bullshit they are talking about is just bullshit. We are riding bikes. Cops will always be around. Eventually the police presence will diminish. MARK MY WORDS.
LACM is a big force. Let's keep it a positive force towards change.
There is NOTHING you can do about the police. NOTHING. You can live with it and be harmonious and it will never effect us badly.
Nobody is going to read this post anyways so it doesn't matter what I say. This will be a broken record over and over. But, I support Roadblocks message. KEEP IT POSITIVE.
"Love" is the attitude we need to cultivate in LA.
LACM represents the future of cycling. Don't you want it to be a celebration of unity rather than a hostile swarm? It's up to you, really. It's what you make it.
Thanks. and Regarding your last paragraph: I dont think LACM is selling out, or that I'm selling LACM out. I'm trying to focus primarily on the suggested imagery. Let me put it this way. LACM is a ride first, I agree. If the LAPD were just another rider, than this thread wouldn't exist.
But their presence and interaction with LACM (or support) has made a clear distinction between "the ride" and "the LAPD". If this were a kind of natural union, not coincidentally formed by (of all things) LAPD incident of abuse, then it would have a less cynical feel to it.
But not to make too much of a deal out the supposed hidden agendas, I'm more interested in the interpretations and the suggestions of what this union is producing. That product appears to be look how great LACM is now (which I experienced and do believe is great), and also something along the lines of what you posted -- x,y,z is headed in the right direction.
This is all well and good, which is why i feel torn.
If this were simply an LAPD loves cyclist, so we're all doing back flips over it situation, then I would feel like we're betraying ourselves and others. If you really believe this is an opportunity to engage the LAPD at a more community first level, then despite my feelings about LAPD (in the broad sense), I too can see some "cracks in the rock" for addressing more abusive areas in the LAPD, not just their ills with cyclist.
Their incident with cyclist, highlights the kind of entity the LAPD "is", they seem to beef with everyone. Why? If you always seemed to get into heavy fucked up shit with everyone, you might start to think the problem is with you (i.e. LAPD).
So my position is not really about LACM, but LAPD + Cyclist (in general) and their seemingly isolated brewing love affair. Some may be jealous, but others might rightly think, I can't believe bike community would even date LAPD when I thought bike community was mad that LAPD did this or that to me.
That's why I asked about your thoughts on it, rather than just make the conclusions and pretend to be angry.
md2 responding to a comment by Alex Thompson
08.2.10 - 12:17 pm
But seriously, if someone is trying to make good then let them. It ain't no sweat off our backs.
I agree that bicycles do fall into a class-ism issue. We are a sign of the times. Bikes replacing motorists in numbers is the vision we want to create.
Let the cops support us. As long as they aren't forcing us to have a permit to assemble, as long as they aren't beating up innocent riders - Let's let them do what they are doing so that we can continue to have CM grow and spread that vision of the times and our potential.
Holding onto past grudges and old ways are just a hindrance when we are trying to move forward.
But seriously, if someone is trying to make good then let them. It ain't no sweat off our backs.
You're right.
But we know Alex is at least sweating, whether they ride with LACM or not. I'm really proud of the commitment and work a lot of you do, so I hope it pays off and we see the results of the work RB, Alex and others behind the scenes do.
I suppose it's easy to highlight stuff via a post here or there, but it's another thing to put yourself in there and try to make something work.
md2 responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
08.2.10 - 4:34 pm
i was watching out for my brothers and sisters. i knew there would be undercover surveliance so i looked for the easiest place they would be. then i rode up there and there they were. sitting ducks. they looked at me with their radios and binoculars like they had been caught. and they had. you are right about this group "midnight ridazz" not actually wanting any real change because you would be aiming higher than some local cops. if you wanted real bike safety you would have a spokesperson (lobbyist) talking to the governor directly instead of the little local bullshit. american culture is in a neo-fascist dead state and history books will show that people should have united AGAINST the police state instead of joining forces with it. not through violence but through CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE. thats the only way your group would even have a chance locally. instead you bow down and bend over. well i will probably be seeing you in jail since i didnt pay my j-walking ticket and now have a warrant out for my arrest from your good friends at the LAPD. good luck hanging out with the pigs...peace. (oh and to those that are mad cause i just joined this forum, well i am glad i just joined this forum because now i am leaving as soon as i realized its for complacent people) and i have been riding CM since i started in SF in 1999. peace. -B
benobody responding to a comment by OsnapsonJC
08.2.10 - 5:12 pm
you are assuming i represent violence when i actually represent ghadian civil disobedience. again my words have created the false image of violence in your imagination. when have i suggested anything other than non-violent civil disobedience as a means of revolution???? i have not. so dont assume i support violence. i just dont support obedience. UNDERSTAND YET?
benobody responding to a comment by lackflag
08.2.10 - 5:22 pm
if LACM is not completely sold out then it will ride through Beverly hills next month. the guy at the front looked at me like i was crazy when i suggested we ride through BH when we turned right on santa monica. its bullshit. SFCM does not bow down and bend over to the police like LACM does and allow them to control the entire ride. its sad. truly sad.
if LACM is not completely sold out then it will ride through South L.A. next month. the guy at the front looked at me like i was crazy when i suggested we ride through the hood when we turned right on crenshaw. its bullshit. SFCM does not bow down and bend over to the police like LACM does and allow them to control the entire ride. its sad. truly sad.
If you think the ride is sold out and sad then please don't go next month. How does a bike ride sell out anyway?
Wow, I thought I was the only one that thought the ride was weak in their BRIEF appearance in BH. Who do we have to thank for that decision? Whoever it is, thank leaders for watching out for us.
BH has some pretty cool roads to ride on from what I have rode. Yet I felt like we were bumrushed out of there as quickly as possible. Where was the leadership? Or was that planned?
I hope we pay them a visit this month too. Bonus was being able to shake the popo at the boundary. ;-)
It appears that many of you have embraced the LAPD's presence at your ride...and it is, and will remain your ride. I realize that some of you may have lingering questions or concerns. If so, please feel free to come to the Los Angeles Bicycle Advisory Committee meeting tomorrow (Tuesday-August 3) at the Hollywood Division Community center (just south of the station on Wilcox). I will be there as early as 5:00 pm and will gladly answer any questions you may have.
While there will be individual officers who may not conduct themselves to the standards of our Department at times...please know that the LAPD is genuine in its desire to improve relations with the cycling community.
The LAPD will be at the next Critical Mass and I can't wait to ride with all of you again...even "benobody" if he decides to ride on.
Read my words again. I never accused you of advocating violence. The fact that you chose to defend your position against mine tells me that I struck a nerve. The fact that you think I accused you of having violent intentions when I never even hinted at that accusation tells me that I struck at something even deeper. I applaud your participation on this forum in so far as it represents a working out of the issues that concern you, and in so far as it has inspired others to think about and articulate their own positions on what I see as an important issue.
benobody, you are a lot like me. You represent nobody. I am lackflag, I represent no flag, no nation. Feeling this close to you, my unsolicited advice is this: don't try to save the world. It doesn't want to be saved. It was around long before you were, and it will continue to be here until long after you are gone. Just try to enjoy it and leave it better than you found it. If you can manage that, you will have lived a just and happy life.
lackflag responding to a comment by benobody
08.2.10 - 8:24 pm
whah whah whah! so now you gotta blaze in the cut a block b4 u get there or veer of for a second during a stop..big deal..they couldnt fight us so they joined us
If lacm drinks 4 loko and finds my 60-year old mother sexually attractive then maybe I shouldn't be so happy about the lapd riding with it. But I still am.
@lackflag. i will try and save the world and i will succeed and you will stand by and watch it all go down on tv. thats the ancient and everlasting difference between philosophers and kings, some people talk and some people act. someday when the world is not controlled by a hypocritical imperialistic empire know as the america and the world is a better place i will know i had a hand in that history and that change. a less police controlled neo-fascist place. a less monopolized ego-ridden dogmatic hypocrisy. trust me. we shall prevail. peace.
benobody, i said it before and i'll say it again... even though most people probably immediately just brushed you aside mentally and decided you're too off the wall with your initial or 2nd post, and I might be flamed for supporting you but alas, I DO commend your energy and unwavering stance.
Upon reviewing beno's comments, unfortunately, they are NOT as off the wall as we would all wish they would be. Sure, he could have conveyed them in a more refined way... but his conviction is STRONG, and I don't believe he's against doing things through LOVE and PEACE, from what I could gather. I personally am all for helping change our relationship with the police, one moment, one person at a time, because that's all we could.. but anyway, I think beno's just trying to keep our eyes open because it's easy to get blinded...
ps: that video posted above (we are traffic)... is pretty sweet if you haven't seen it. makes me want to ride my bicycle! :D
we shall prevail.
but it depends on who "we" is and how we define "prevailing".
I too admire your energy.
But I am a little confused your some of your notions of history.
Not that I don't admire certain things about JFK and RFK but I am kinda shocked you do not recognize them for what they were: power elites who were not revolutionaries, but people born into power who chose to direct the "evil empire" (at best) in a slightly kinder and gentler direction. And are VERY different characters than somebody like Che who was literally a gun toting revolutionary.
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You seem to think your agenda is much different than most of us here.
And it really isn't. All that is different is the false sense of purity you are taking to your approach.
No of us will solve the worlds problems.
Or see it all happen in our lifetime.
I agree with lackflag that the best we can do it try and leave the world better than we found it, and that often has more to do with how we treat our fellow humans, than the purity of our politics.
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We are dynamic creatures and we have the ability to evolve and change if we keep an open mind.
Malcolm X was a racist who became a Human Rights advocate for all people.
Howard Zinn was a warrior in the US Army who became a beloved pacifist historian.
We don't always do the right thing. But it is helpful to try and understand and respect the intentions of those who are trying, instead of creating/ buying into false dichotomies that keep us separate.
I ran this through google translate... what this person is saying translated is:
"You have to be more discreet about smoking illicit substances and drinking alcohol now that the police are escorting the ride. It's no big deal get over it."
Roadblock responding to a comment by DArK ENERgY
08.3.10 - 11:25 am
again, you are wrong. we will solve the worlds problems in our lifetimes. do you know the future? you have been there and seen it? generation Y is going to save the world. enjoy it from the sidelines...
benobody responding to a comment by trickmilla
08.3.10 - 1:18 pm
@antranik thank you. the manner i speak is not suggestive of violence it is just brash and to the point. i dont support the apathetic views and the condescending comments when people write me off. jfk, rfk, mlk, cesar chavez, these people are not ancient history, in fact many people i have marched with and been involved with marched with them directly and knew them personally. our generation seems to be off on this new age, techno, 2012 non-sense and when 2012 comes and goes just like Y2K did they will all be standing there baffled and confused as to why so much fear and misinformation was spread...then i will answer them like i have all along. ps. i have a few thousand people already supporting my run for governor as an independent but i am focused on starting a certain non-profit and establishing myself as a leader in certain sectors before running. i am planning a 2018 run and plan on winning and funding it on my own dime and therefor will not be at the mercy of campaign contributors. this state is where i was born and raised and i will protect with my life for my life from enemies foreign and domestic and i consider the domestic enemies much more of threat at this point. monsanto, pg&e, big oil, big pharmy, these are the enemies of the people and soon the masses will realize. slowly but surely. you can kill the revolutionary but you cant kill the revolution. free humanity. one love. -B
benobody responding to a comment by Antranik
08.3.10 - 1:27 pm
Okay I was just talking shit but this really makes no sense. I do agree that a lot of our generation (I'm 24, you?) is a little half-assed when it comes to social activism and radical political thought. I don't think it's because were lazy, apathetic, or so disillusioned that we'd rather wait for the end of the world, we just have different methods, values, and priorities than our parents did. Our parents could not record a video of a police officer acting badly, get on the Internet, and show the world in a matter of minutes. We don't have to put flowers into the barrel of a rifle to make a stand. Whenever people have that additude that "The Man" is against us and that large corporations are inherently evil I always wonder where that comes from. Don't you realize that it is the government that allows you to have those beliefs? In America you can believe and say almost anything you want. There are so many countries where people are truly and fully oppressed by their government. Maybe as you run for office, you will learn that government is a very necessary part of a civilized society, and that we have a pretty good system in this country. I was born and raised in this city and I've seen the LAPD do some pretty fucked up shit. Riding with the bicycle officers these last 2 months has done more to change my attitude towards LEOs in general than anything. When I see a police officer I used to just see a badge, handcuffs, and a gun trying to bust someone. When I was riding with the police officers I could see them as fellow human beings. It was incredible just to be able to talk and joke with them and see them smile and laugh. Cops are not agents from the matrix, they are people that risk their lives every single day to try to keep us all safe. They want to get home to their families at the end of the day just like we all do. They have emotions and judgment, and they make mistakes like everyone else. It's really unfair of me to generalize all police based on the actions of a minority. So thank you again LAPD.
Yeah, fuck paragraphs too. Everything that I want to say, should be said in one paragraph, because it makes so much sense to just have everyone read it like this, and by this, I mean the format you, yes you, are currently reading in this post. And I suppose it's nothing to really make a fuss over since someone like Jose Saramago writes wonderful books in a similar fashion, and really stuck it to the grammar kings about how wonderful a comma can be. Though I must admit, he has way better things to say than me or any other person on this site. Well, to be honest, I really admire nathansnider because he really has great posts and responses that are both nice and yet indicate the stupidity of so and so's post. Hopefully he doesn't do the same to me, because that would suck. Truth be told, I wish I was a little nicer and didn't waste so much time on this non-sense, but work is really boring and pointless, but that's not an excuse, so whatever, I think I'll just keep typing this train of thought, which is really more about wanting more paragraphs, just so I can read a sentence here or there in your long post, instead of have to pick sentences out of your post like I'm staring at one of those pictures at the mall when I was kid, and you had to twist your eyeballs all weird so a dolphin would pop out. Really though, reading some posts kind of makes me think I know what it would be like to excavate triceratops bones in the basement of my buddy's section 8 approved studio.
@Velo
"Whenever people have that additude that "The Man" is against us and that large corporations are inherently evil I always wonder where that comes from"... really, BP, the Banking system, Hedge Funds, and so on.... large corporations are inherently evil perhaps because their main and only goal is to continue to grow bigger and make more profits with regard to environment or exploitation of people or exploitation of other countries (their ppl or their environment)... the government does establish minimum standards but that will depend on who is in office to what those minimum standards are... over time, even minimum standards will have an impact on the environment....
"Don't you realize that it is the government that allows you to have those beliefs? In America you can believe and say almost anything you want. There are so many countries where people are truly and fully oppressed by their government".... hmmm, i think you need to double check this... some individuals are in prison in this country for no reason other than they are dissidents and outspoken... check out the guy from rasiethefist.com and see his story... not to mention many individuals that are in guantanomo bay right now that their constitutional rights are being infringed upon... I do not agree this comparison since you are comparing a theoritically free nation to dictarships, authoritarian forms of governments which the US has some influence through economical embargos or applying pressure as it sees fit... i guess you are okay with a mild oppresser....
"as you run for office, you will learn that government is a very necessary part of a civilized society, and that we have a pretty good system in this country. I was born and raised in this city and I've seen the LAPD do some pretty fucked up shit"
hmmmm, civilized sociey? pretty good system? for whom? the wealthy maybe, why do you believe it is a pretty good system, because we have TV's, cars, sports, houses, bicycles, beer, parties, things to mellow us out... you do need to get off your youtube videos and get reading or informed of what this government is doing... or better yet just open your eyes... benobody provided many examples on the disparity between communities with money and communities without money...
my question to benobody is this.... if you work and participate in the political system, arent you legitimazing (splg) the system, why are you upset if MR and CM are trying to make cycling better within the system???
i suppose its emma goldman (anarchists) saying, i love my country, I just hate the government (i am paraphrasing)....
so much more to say on all this.... but velo... it is imperative that we do not compare this nation with other nations... or else we will be satisfied with the limits we are given... lets use technology to strive and create a different system where it is not money that would allow an individual like GW Bush to own businesses, to get to such a political position...
Is this what happens when the Community College kids who peddle the Maoist Times to passerby start riding Fixiez?
Maybe the sight of a police presence helping CM might persuade regular folks who wouldn't ordinarily ride, feel secure enough to venture into traffic. This sounds infinitely better than the same 50 "revolutionaries" running red lights and screaming at traffic.
Does it come down to this, siding with Authority and promoting and encouraging safer cycling in the city at the cost of not being able to drink/toke in public or riding willy-nilly through the streets? Is it possible to do both?
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Ridazz Roulette!
We still love you, User1.
I CANT HEAR YOU. YOU DON'T HAVE A MEGAPHONE.
Hmmm... I sink you're on to somezing here...
That's me - copy paste champion.