August CM thread
Thread started by
Hallucin8 at 08.28.10 - 1:48 am
No one has made a dedicated thread for this yet, so I'm making.
Air your thoughts, complaints, questions, suggestions etc. here.
My question: some guy got hit on Exposition near USC by a white SUV. A bunch of ridazz helped him out and I saw people taking down the SUV's license plate. I took off when USC security showed up. Anyone able to tell us what happened to the guy? Was he okay/ How badly was he hurt? And what happened to the guy who hit him, did the cops arrest him?
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I heard from several sources that no arrest was made. The driver's info was captured. An ambulance responded and looked at the kid but did not transport him even though reportedly the injury was pretty bad. I believe that the kid and his brother were taken into police custidy until the parents could respond. I will be looking into the matter and will provide an update to the degree that I can considering disclosure rules.
Sgt. David Krumer08.28.10 - 1:56 am
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The guy was thrown by the SUV into another vehicle, I believe. He hurt his foot but did not go to hospital. The guy that hit him was not arrested. Others can chime in with more details.
The most disturbing thing I personally saw was a rida riding into the back of a 17-year girl's bike and riding off after she fell to the ground. Probably the guy that hit her thought she wasn't hurt badly, but you know what? That's exactly what drivers think about us. "They'll probably be ok so I'm just gonna leave". The girl wasn't fine. We waited with her until LAFD came, picked her up and took her to hospital. As far as I could tell, she had a possible concussion coupled with abdominal pain.
Guys, we have enough problems without letting each other down. If you hit someone, please stop and make sure they are ok.
Rach Stevo08.28.10 - 1:57 am
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this was this bigest cm eva!
the ride was good to.
I also saw some chick that was down on fountain. rida war around her and so was firemans. there wasnot much I could do so I did not stop. hope she good to.
I hope next month we go farther a way I hate just rolling in the sam areaa.
fixie4life08.28.10 - 2:02 am
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The 15 year old gentleman (and he was one) who was hit couldn't put weight on his foot and ended up having to get a ride home . . . which was something of a controversy. LAPD officers from Southwest Division responded to the collision and failed tremendously in the execution of their duties. They took reports from cyclist witnesses but did not write down a lick of it, and spent most of the witness interviews arguing with witnesses about why the cyclists were wrong/at fault/misguided.
His older brother stayed with him and took care of him - from one older brother to another, big props for being supportive and sticking with your sibling.
His bike was trashed and he just got it today. Totally sad situation and I hope he pushes through and gets riding again soon. It's a hard knock life but he seems tough.
Not a great night for LAPD or LACM from everything I heard - a 17 year old girl got taken out by another rida - concussed and so forth - doesn't sound pretty. Some ridazz who were riding the wrong way on Jefferson (where there's a median) ended up in cuffs. Some conflict between bike patrol officers and ridazz in the tunnel - don't know the details of that.
Ridazz - when in doubt call for an ambulance, and when in doubt take it to the hospital - don't count money where blood is involved. That happened twice tonight.
September is another month - a better month if we work for it.
Alex Thompson08.28.10 - 2:06 am
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Man - I'm so slow - Rach and Krumer wrote back first.
Alex Thompson08.28.10 - 2:06 am
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On the other thread Borfo mentioned something about 1700 strong.
That's good, but these ignorant brigands on the fixed/ss drug seem to continually rear their ugly heads each time.
bentstrider08.28.10 - 2:10 am
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Thanks for the info Sgt. Krumer, please do keep us informed with what you can.
I think we all owe Alex Thompson some thanks. I saw him at the scene of the accident (never met him before but I heard him identify himself) and he was trying to keep everyone cool (some tempers were flaring after the driver of the SUV got out of his car and tried to physically confront some ridazz). Sounds like he stuck around and helped the injured guy out and documented what happened. Good lucking out for your fellow rida ... we need more of that.
I didn't see the accident but I wasn't too far away and I heard the impact/screech of the tires and when I turned I saw the cyclist lying on the ground. I then saw the SUV go in reverse, pull a U and try to drive away until he was surrounded by bikes and was forced to stop. He was pretty belligerent too, cursing at people and, like I said, got out of his car at one point and challenged some guy to "step up to him" or something like that. I just hope the guy who got hit recovers okay and gets whatever medical attention he needs.
Hallucin808.28.10 - 2:28 am
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terrible route some in in a Windsor bike and some guy with a mom ridaz patch took over the ride. What douchebags!!!
palucha6608.28.10 - 2:31 am
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errr typos!!! Read before you post PALUCHA66!!!
palucha6608.28.10 - 2:32 am
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Thank you LAPD for blocking traffic. Apparently a LAPD motorcycle unit was struck by a bus. I hope the officer was not injured.
Shame on those few people who tried to swarm the AM/PM. We are not thugs or thieves. You did a great disservice to the LA bicycle community.
Keep on riding LA. It was beautiful to see so many bicycles in the streets.
sgrant08.28.10 - 2:32 am
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Thank you LAPD for blocking traffic. Apparently a LAPD motorcycle unit was struck by a bus. I hope the officer was not injured.
Shame on those few people who tried to swarm the AM/PM. We are not thugs or thieves. You did a great disservice to the LA bicycle community.
Keep on riding LA. It was beautiful to see so many bicycles in the streets.
sgrant08.28.10 - 2:32 am
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Of course, what I forgot to say during my little rant against cyclist hit and runs was THANKS to all those who did stop, to the two or more people that stepped up to call 911 and to all those who asked if they could help and then kept rolling when asked to clear space for LAFD.
I appreciated it, I'm sure the rida, her friends and her sister did too.
Rach Stevo08.28.10 - 3:58 am
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Myself and 2 others were witnesses to the entire accident as we were right next to the SUv when it happened and saw the entire impact, etc. We stayed to the end of the LAPD taking the young man home, and made statements to the police. To clarify the FACTS: The driver never attempted to flee, never made a u-turn, and your account of such is false. After hitting the young man the driver stopped, then pulled his vehicle to the side of the road. I was directly behind the Suv when the entire incident happened. It would have been me that had been hit if I had decided to go in front instead of behind. The driver was trying to force his way thru the crowd, thought he had a hole but didn't. It was stupid, but he never tried to flee, and never made a u-turn. There's no way he could've, he was surrounded by cyclists instantly.
The young man may have broken his leg, LAFD and LAPD did not do their best work tonight, and LACM was a wreck. LAPD was more concerned with lecturing me than hearing my eye witness account. LAPD spent a total 40 minutes lecturing a scared kid who was hit by a road raging driver, and 15 min laughing it up with the driver. How is that appropriate behavior at all?
danceralamode responding to a
comment by Hallucin8
08.28.10 - 4:09 am
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Hats off to Alex Thompson for stepping in to help downed riders and documenting stuff.
Accidents do happen, but a bike ride does not have to get this out of hand.
The more people get out and ride regularly the more they will learn how to ride safely.
I wish I weren't so darn busy so I could get out more often.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Hallucin8
08.28.10 - 4:17 am
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All i gatta said is that even though we had those two accidents... Overall it was good i actually took my little brother he is just ten rollin to his first official ride and first to lacm... And he tells me ... He cant wait till next month..... And personally i do have a problem with the route we are going to the spots.. Time to change the routes a little bit more and longer too ... But fuck it is all good
Pnut9000508.28.10 - 5:08 am
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I guess I was wrong. I got confused because I'm pretty sure he hit the kid with the front of his vehicle (that is to say, the hood of the vehicle was facing the mass/Exposition Blvd) but by the time the bikes swarmed around him he was turned around, with the rear of his vehicle facing the mass/Exposition. Not sure how that would be possible without pulling a U-ey but I might not be remembering the event clearly.
Hallucin8 responding to a
comment by danceralamode
08.28.10 - 8:14 pm
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LACM needs to stop doing this kinda of stuff. If they wish to stop they need to stop at remote locations also they have to make clear what their goal is. A mob created for the sake of being a mob is not a mob it's a riot in motion. I have seen some of the videos from non-ridazz and heard some of the appalling things that happened and watch the girl get hit on her bike by another rida. LACM needs more support staff and needs to organize if they don't they will soon find themselves unable to roll because even some of the ridazz will turn their backs on them.
DrMcFishy08.28.10 - 8:32 pm
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The front of his vehicle was never facing the mass. I was there from the moment it happened until 2.5 hours later when LAPD finally relented to give the kid a ride home instead of leaving him there with a possibly broken leg.
danceralamode responding to a
comment by Hallucin8
08.28.10 - 8:49 pm
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And there was no "by the time the bike swarmed around him". He went through 100s of riders to try and make a left turn. Everyone surrounded him immediately after the impact. The driver was to blame but stop trying to make it worse than it is. He did not try to hit and run, he did not make a u-turn. He turned left from an Eastbound lane to Northbound on McClintock, which is how he hit the rider in the first place, and his vehicle remained Northbound facing until he was released by the LAPD.
danceralamode responding to a
comment by Hallucin8
08.28.10 - 8:54 pm
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Why exactly are you attacking me? I was wrong and you were right .... do you want a cookie now?
Read what I wrote above. I did not witness the impact. I *heard* the impact and the braking of the vehicle. I did not realize he had just driven through the mass. When I made visual eye contact with the vehicle he was moving down the side street. At this point there were *not* bikes swarming around him. There may have been bikes swarming around him a second prior to this but he managed to roll about 40 feet down the side street before bikes circled around him again. I know because I was one of those cyclists. I incorrectly made the assumption that he had made a U-Turn because I did not think it would have been possible for a driver to roll through the pack considering how dense it was, I incorrectly assumed he had been coming southbound on McClintock and then turned around when he hit the rider.
I'm not trying to make it sound worse than it was. He was belligerent - he personally insulted me when I said I was calling the police. Just because I had incomplete information does not mean I have some kind of agenda. I've always been an advocate of CM being as safe and courteous as possible.
I apologize if I confused anyone with my incorrect information. You - you've just been plain rude.
Hallucin8 responding to a
comment by danceralamode
08.28.10 - 9:19 pm
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Correcting your information with an eye witness account of the entire incident is not rude. Being rude is the personal attacks that you're doing now. I merely corrected your erroneous account because it only makes things worse for someone who didn't witness it to speculate about what happened.
I apologize if you think I'm attacking you, I'm just trying to clarify what happened. What you think is him rolling 40 feet away is actually wrong (and this stems from what you thought was him going Southbound). He hit the cyclist in the crosswalk and his vehicle only moved about 10 feet beyond that. You think it's 40 feet because you didn't witness the impact and you think it happened in the intersection. I'm just trying to tell you what REALLY happened.
If you didn't witness it, then say, "I came upon the scene of a downed cyclist, and every one was really upset and surrounding the car." Putting out there your assumptions of an event provokes the mob violence against drivers that men like Alex Thompson have to then fend off. He had to put himself between the mass and the driver to protect the driver from the mass.
Let's get on the same page here: the driver was belligerent, reckless, and a danger to us all. But spreading assumptions about what you think happened provokes the mob mentality justice that cyclists display whenever an incident happens. An incident happens, and everyone assumes, regardless of witnessing the event, that the driver is fleeing (even when about 5 seconds after the impact he had exited his vehicle) and then the mass is attempting to physically attack this person. Perhaps even someone who came on the scene a minute or two afterwards tells people what he THINKS happened and then everyone gets worked up and goes after the driver.
I'm not defending the driver at all, but physically attacking people involved in collisions/incidents makes all of us look really bad--and that's what happens when misinformation is spread.
danceralamode responding to a
comment by Hallucin8
08.28.10 - 9:43 pm
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Some fat fuck in a patched vest jacked the ride when we all got to sunset. Telling people to go to poinsettia park for a better ride. Finally me and my friend got people to stop listening to him and we lead a pack to hollywood blvd. We realy need better leadership for CM. Everybody was riding in circles not knowing what the fuck to do or who to believe. People didn't know where they were going once the blvd ended. I suggest that we have 10 or 15 people stand up high at the beginning of the ride and announce that THEY are the leaders of CM and not to listen to anybody but them. Or else this is going to keep happening.
What I saw on friday night was over 1000 followers and 0 leaders.
EL1OT08.28.10 - 11:19 pm
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i saw the guy who got hit near usc, the SUV tried to force a left, i saw the impact and it was bad the kids entire bike got run over.
also later that night during peoples ride when we were heading down la brea i had a really intense confrontation with a guy driving a white PT cruiser. he kept swirving his car at the ride and tailgated us, i kept yelling at him to stop swirving at us but he laughed at me and kept trying to hit me for like 6 blocks before he turned down a street. ive never been so pissed off at any driver before, did anyone else see this asshole?
Americanspeed08.28.10 - 11:50 pm
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Thanks to all the LAPD and various departments for all the support this CM....you guys had a real cluster F*** on your hands. We still have a lot of work to do in terms of relations and equal respect and application of the law between drivers and cyclists but seems like were making an active effort. Special thanks to Srgt. Krumer - keep it up!
Really was not a fan of the route this month...I ended up bailing with a few others after we started heading south of USC again...at that point the ride, the pack, and the environment was just getting way too out of hand. Seemed so wreckless and out of control on every level this month.
CM is about mutual respect among the users of the road...I saw a lot of wreckless "old CM" behavior towards drivers...and flat out stupidity in dealing with those drivers who hate us. Kill em' with kindness and respect of the law guys!
We have to get the laws applied equally and convince the public that we are not all wreckless hoodlums. We're working on it...keep it up!
GraphikDeziner08.29.10 - 12:16 am
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@ Americanspeed- DUDE!!! I was right by the PT cruiser!! I saw the rider yell at him to cut it out or he gonna call the cops and the dude started getting out of his car! then He started following the rider and running him off the road right next to me! Was that you? I pulled into that gas station cuz it was gettin to fucking crazy.
EL1OT08.29.10 - 12:34 am
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Dude I saw you yell at the PT cruiser and then they started getting out of their car. Then I cruised past you later on and yelled "YOU COOL?" lol. I pulled into that gas station after that light cuz he fuckin swerved at you when I was right next to you!
EL1OT responding to a
comment by Americanspeed
08.29.10 - 12:37 am
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yep that was me yellin at him, dude was a fuckin nut! but hey i never left the lane i was in! LOL it takes more than that to scare a midnight rida.
Americanspeed responding to a
comment by EL1OT
08.29.10 - 2:34 am
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Thank you Sgt. David Krumer.
I know, being handed a driver's identity is still not quite enough information for you to accomplish what needs to get done, your workload being as heavy as it is. Afterall, you do need to spend your time on websites updating us on the status of your inability to accomplish the task at hand.
Please ignore all the posts on this forum that seem unwelcoming or harsh toward your presence. They are written by people without the resources to hire good lawyers and therefore pose no threat to you. Just pretend they have no rights. It's cool.
I, for one, welcome you to this forum. It is here to be of service to you, just as you are here for us... to protect and serve. I feel comforted... almost a warm and fuzzy feeling... knowing that you read our posts and stay updated on the time and location of our rides. And when I see you in uniform, on your bicycle, joining us for our fun evenings of bike play I'm overwhelmed by the knowledge that we are all one together.
Of course, nothing raises my appreciation for the men and women in blue than when you thoughtfully illuminate our path with the millions of foot candles from your helicopters. I can't count the times I've avoided potholes with your help. Thank you.
Sincerely,
indigis
indigis responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
08.29.10 - 8:48 am
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I will never go On LACM again .... I didnt enjoy myself ... thats a wrap..
OsnapsonJC08.29.10 - 9:17 am
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That guy thinks he leads rides for some reason... This is the second time he tries to lead lacm.
Rage responding to a
comment by EL1OT
08.29.10 - 9:58 am
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Despite all the usual short-comings that are foamed from the collective mouth at the end of every month, I found my vicarious experience through the visual aides more than satisfying.
bentstrider08.29.10 - 1:35 pm
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Probably worst CM yet. Im starting to think LAPD's involvement was a bad idea. They'll probably try to gain as much authority over the ride as possible, or squash the ride for good. I know the People's Ride was squashed because they kicked everyone out of the parking lots and forced us to go south of Sunset Blvd.
To top things off, I tried to catch the metro from Hollywood and Highland and some cop told me i was not allowed on the metro at all. When i asked why he very impolitely told me "just because that's how it is, now have fun riding to the Vermont station." When i told him that was bullshit, he told me "you and your bike buddies riding with thousands of others is bullshit." He and the other officers refused to give me their full names and badge numbers, btw.
On a better note, many thanks to the officers who actually have a good head on their shoulders, and sad to hear a cop was hit by a bus. But i still flip the bird to the rest of LAPD for bringing back their infamous history of authoritative enforcement and irrelevant riot control.
marzipan08.29.10 - 1:50 pm
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danceralamode -
"The young man may have broken his leg, LAFD and LAPD did not do their best work tonight, and LACM was a wreck. LAPD was more concerned with lecturing me than hearing my eye witness account. LAPD spent a total 40 minutes lecturing a scared kid who was hit by a road raging driver, and 15 min laughing it up with the driver. How is that appropriate behavior at all?"
"I was there from the moment it happened until 2.5 hours later when LAPD finally relented to give the kid a ride home instead of leaving him there with a possibly broken leg."
This stuff needs to be documented, preferably with video. The LAPD is documenting all the LACM rides now, and I really don't think it's for posterity's sake. There will be a time where this LAPD/LACM love affair is going to be strained and labored. There will be many arguments about disruptions and cost to police. Right now it's in the gathering evidence phase. The best we can do is start our own gathering of evidence phase for when that day comes.
On another note, hope all that the peeps that were injured on the ride are recovering well. Sad to hear about that 15 yr old kid. Seemed like it could have been handled better.
DArK ENERgY08.29.10 - 2:21 pm
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Well, one of the things that might be a bad result from LAPD involvement, is that in just a short time, we've come to expect that they will host intersections for us, so when we got down to USC and the cops had left, no one was watching the intersections and corking. While corking might upset an impatient motorist, it takes the guessing work out of whether or not they can go through an intersection.
If the LAPD had stayed with the ride, it would not have happened. But also, past LAPD hosting of the rides has made riders feel a false sense of not needing to cork/host intersections. Some of us did not even know that the LAPD had totally left the ride until later.
Either the LAPD needs to be a part of the ride or not. Otherwise they are making the ride less safe because riders think the LAPD has them covered, when in reality, the LAPD has bailed and we don't know it.
We cork intersections for a reason, and if the LAPD aren't going to host, then we need to go back to our own corking. Otherwise you have riders getting hit by motorists who do stupidly reckless moves like pulling through a crowd of peds and cyclists at USC.
danceralamode responding to a
comment by DArK ENERgY
08.29.10 - 2:32 pm
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Yes for the life of me I could not figure out why they all turned off on Hill from 2nd after coming out of the tunnel. I saw close to 20 motorcycle cops stopped there and getting off their ride. Saw very few, read that no officers on bicycles that night. That's not good either.
Oh yeah, also the ghetto bird was really a waste of taxpayer's money. Circling around and around cause we were at the park there at Exposition Blvd. Seemed like it was there for 1/2 hr.
DArK ENERgY responding to a
comment by danceralamode
08.29.10 - 2:44 pm
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We weren't sure what the helicopter was doing at the first stop -- with the searchlight and computerized voice giving orders out of incredibly loud speakers. Made everything feel kind of tense. Also not sure about the new bike sirens on the LAPD's bikes. Or am I mistaken? Maybe someone else had those. In any case, might be more effective if the officers tried to verbally communicate with bike riders as opposed to implementing these loud things.
PeterR08.29.10 - 3:00 pm
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I hesitate to comment here because most of you, not all, see me as the infectious disease plaguing CM. Having said that, I can not in good conscious let it go on any further without explaining the actions of my unit that was allowed to participate in the last few CM"s. Up until Friday night, the CM's we were allowed to ride in had been quite the experience and as a cyclist and activists, I felt it overwhelming to see so many people riding bicycle's. For a lack of better words, it was awesome.
Most of you that ride CM know me as the Officer who is always up near the front of the ride. I do not pretend to lead the ride, I'm there for your safety and the safety of other's. On Friday night, most of the cyclists were respectful but there were a few who were not. I have never been called a "pig" so many times by people whom I respected because they respected the views of cyclists. Not only that, but I never felt that I was ever in any danger riding until Friday night's ride. I made the decision to pull my unit of Bike Officer's from the ride after ending the tunnel section of 2nd St at Hill St.
When we entered the tunnel no one would heed the requests to stay to the right and out of oncoming lanes of traffic. I observed a Taxi heading in opposing lanes nearly hit numerous cyclists all because they were in the wrong lane. Then I had numerous cyclists cut in front of my line and then brake attempting to cause me to crash. They did the same thing to the Motorcycle Officer who was next to me. I'm not just talking about one cyclists, I'm talking about many. So the decisionn was made to stop participating in the ride. Because of this, CM did not have any Police personnel with them while riding through Expo Park, hence a vehicle vs bike incident occured. I was not there so I will not speak on that matter.
I was, however, at Hollywood and Highland when we were met by over a hundred cyclists who attempted to take the intersection and perform the "circle of death" which had previously been discussed would not happen. SO my unit joined the ride once again. We requested the cyclists in the intersection, who were holding their bikes above their head, to please continue on with the ride. They complied but they went westbound to the next intersection and did the same thing.
This wanton disregard for public safety is exactly what I speak of. We can not be there for you to see these motorists commit acts of neglect if you attempt to crash us. We can not be there for you if you ride in opposite lanes of traffic putting myself and the Officer's I work with in danger of getting hit by a car because we are asking you to stay on the right side of the road. NOW, because of the actions of a few I feel uneasy with CM. If I have said something here to offend you then know that I'm offended with the way I was treated. A person who was trying to allow the Department to show support for your cause. You see a uniform, not a cyclist and activist...As for the Helicopter, that is there for us, to notify us of intersections ahead that might be clogged due to an unforseen accident. I welcome feedback...
lacycle2408.29.10 - 8:20 pm
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Unreal .... I had almost the same thing happen and Im not a cop ....
OsnapsonJC responding to a
comment by lacycle24
08.29.10 - 8:48 pm
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Honestly, if people are behaving that dangerously, we would all appreciate you ticketing them, or at least I would. If they are putting you in danger they are putting us all in danger.
When the police left the ride, most of us did not know, and therefore did not take our own precautions to cork intersections, which while a traffic violation, is safer for us to do since the mass is not going to stop.
I did hear some younger riders yelling "pig" at cops, and I turned around and yelled at them to stop. I specifically said, you want them to respect you but you yell PIG at them!
And then 2 hours later I had a cop lecturing me while another joked with a motorist who nearly killed someone. I defended the cops then got treated like shit by one. It's hard to continue to stick up for cops when that happens.
danceralamode responding to a
comment by lacycle24
08.29.10 - 9:08 pm
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@lacycle24
I don't fault you one bit for taking your unit out - it was a hectic crazy mess of a CM and I felt very uncomfortable around so many riders not listening to your commands.
It's almost sad this month - like people are starting to take advantage of your help - I thankfully have heard a ridiculously less amount of verbal abuse than I used to against the police force these days but last Friday's ride was chaos at best.
As riders we should never take your presence for granted. LAPD said it in the beginning - they simply don't have the man power to fully support every ride - but they will do their best - and if people are going to be spoiled brats then put them in time out.
We have all done a lot of growing up but with such a huge group - it takes time for everyone to get the message.
Whether we know the police are there or not is not the problem - there is no way to announce to the entire pack that we have support or not...and for crying out loud - how many freaking CM's did we do just fine on without LAPD corking.
The riders in the front need to be selfless if they want to ride in front and take responsibility for themselves...work with the LAPD in corking....if an intersection is not corked coming in...then cork it for us. Never take advantage of a good thing - they are doing their best and as best as riders as the few respectful ones can be...we can't mother everyone.
If riders are being idiots and harassing drivers and not heeding to riding on the right side...ticket them...they'll learn.
GraphikDeziner08.30.10 - 11:05 am
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Yeah we were hearing a lot in the department today about this one too. From what I've heard and was told, I think the motorcycle units did the right thing. Hope things go better for everyone next month.
Officer Friendly08.30.10 - 11:33 am
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Tough spot to be in... You want to let people have a good time, but you can't let people be idiots cause your presence makes you responsible.
At the same time the LAPD presence has likely encouraged more and more people to come out as it feels like an official celebration and parade.
You guys have the opportunity to win the hearts and minds of the next generation. I sincerely hope this opportunity does not get lost. It's the first time in a long long time that there is a chance for relations to grow in a good way with the youth.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by lacycle24
08.30.10 - 11:36 am
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meh....nothing is going to come of this.
_cry Junes08.30.10 - 11:53 am
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This was my first LACM and it might be my last. I put off going to the ride cos it did sound like honest to god chaos but the police being there finally made me comfortable enough to go.
It indeed was the chaos I worried it would be and I did not feel safe on the street with the crazy drivers and cyclists once I fell behind and lost the cops and the rest of the group. The pace was too fast going up those climbs on Vermont. Had to be on the phone with my brother to find out where everyone went. Heard misinformation on the street. Guess it's not really for me cos I wasn't interested in a race.
graciela08.30.10 - 12:01 pm
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"Whether we know the police are there or not is not the problem - there is no way to announce to the entire pack that we have support or not...and for crying out loud - how many freaking CM's did we do just fine on without LAPD corking."
Excuse me, but knowing whether or not the PD are there was the problem. Past LACMs have been "just fine" because we do take care of ourselves. But the LAPD are not going to allow us to cork intersections when they are present.
If you're so gung-ho on people being selfless and risking the hefty ticket that comes with corking an intersection, then maybe you should take some ownership/leadership and jump to the front and cork the intersections.
No one expects LAPD to fully-support every ride, but the fact of the matter is that the intersections were a hell of a lot safer when we DID take care of ourselves. My point above was that with their new presence, the people who would cork aren't sure if they should. The ride has become MORE dangerous with the LAPD on it because we can't predict their behavior. And if you want to disagree with that, then fine. But But I watched a driver who should have been corked plow through cyclists and over a kid not a few blocks after LAPD apparently left us.
I, for one, would have been pleased for them to ticket the reckless cyclists, eject them from the group, and stay with the Mass so what did happen didn't have to.
danceralamode responding to a
comment by GraphikDeziner
08.30.10 - 1:52 pm
reply
Critical Mass seems like it is more trouble than it is worth. I have never been and probably never will participate so my observation is obviously based on anecdotal evidence.
I would rather see cops catch
criminals than babysit a bunch of cyclist.
Foldie08.30.10 - 2:06 pm
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as MD2 put it to the Mayor at the Mayor's bike summit, for all the money that goes into programs like the boys and girls clubs and youth programs... LACM has got the attention of the new generation. and it was done with zero budget. Having the LAPD come out and support that and try to remain calm and open about it, is worth it in a BIG BIG way. these youngsters are the future. they should grow up having a good relationship with the police that are charged to protect them.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Foldie
08.30.10 - 4:42 pm
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I was chatting with another cyclist who was on Friday's ride, and he and I wondered if a few adults were going to have to do some sacrificing of our usual socializing on the ride to mash it out at the front and try to keep the youngsters in-line--you know, setting a good example for them and calling them out on shenanigans when they are being reckless. It couldn't just be one person, but there are plenty of us who could hold the line together at the front.
You're totally right, RB, that these youth are the future. And they look up to a lot of the icons in this community, you included. We need these icons (and all the adults/everyone) on LACM to be vocal when they are doing something dangerous or reckless. However, I partly feel that if they can't pull those dangerous stunts (riding head first into oncoming moving traffic, trying to cause collisions with PD, skidding through the Mass), they won't want to ride. I wonder if the joy they get out of it is the danger. There has to be a way to encourage them to stay on bikes and be safe at the same time.
danceralamode responding to a
comment by Roadblock
08.30.10 - 5:17 pm
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of course the joy is in the danger.... I grew up that way too what with skateboarding bmx and graffiti and so forth.... it takes time to get it out of your system.... and when it does you still retain the compassion for the youngsters who took the same path doing outlaw shit. and you know full well they aren't wanting to hear it. hahah it's gonna be hard to overcome, but it's worth it if it can happen. I have a feeling it isn't going to come from adults trying to coral them. it's going to come from somewhere else.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by danceralamode
08.30.10 - 5:37 pm
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So what is that somewhere else? And how can we harness it to bring it into the fold sooner rather than later?
danceralamode responding to a
comment by Roadblock
08.30.10 - 5:43 pm
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Could we stop calling the troublemakers "the youngsters" or "kids"? At least half the people I saw riding on the left were over 25.
Rach Stevo08.30.10 - 7:20 pm
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possibly by turning CM into a giant half-picnic, half-ride with carnival games, raffles, and trick competitions, etc. having an LAPD authorized bicycle valet...
marzipan responding to a
comment by danceralamode
08.30.10 - 7:24 pm
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You know what's a good fucking name for all the new people on LACM?
PEOPLE WE FAILED TO REACH OUT
People we failed to reach out to while everyone was masturbating over whether critical mass is leaderless or a tyranny of the front riders.
People we failed to reach out to while we skewering people for suggesting routes or handing out flyers or doing circles of death.
People we failed to reach out to while we were furious with User1 and iJunes and Crybaby.
People we failed to reach out to while we were arguing over the virtues or evils of having LACM on this ride.
Just call em what they are - people we failed to reach out to.
You can also call them by their other name: THE FUTURE.
Alex Thompson responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
08.30.10 - 8:27 pm
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(not directed at Joe Borfo anymore that it's directed at anybody else or anymore that it's directed at me.)
People I failed to reach out to.
Alex Thompson08.30.10 - 8:29 pm
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hmmm, from this thread it is understood that LACM is still evolving and still needs to be worked on by all of its riders... like many other CM threads there really isn't anything positive or productive to build on....
someone or some group twitters with the user of LosangelesCM...if he/she/they have taken the responsibility to promote and inform people of the ride, maybe he/she/they should take some responsibility to work on ideas... I know anyone can go under twitter with any name...but as a follower, the user of LosAngelesCM promotes a lot...lets get them engaged in the conversation....
@AT, your comment is only going to alienate people.... it is not encouraging and I may be taking it wrong but you seem to send out a negative connotation.... I believe you are doing a lot in the cycling community and that is awesome but why not sit with icons as someone put it and get some issues resolved....
at the first CM i attended.... there was a guy hauling some music and sort of became the "leader" that kept the pace relatively slow since he had all that weight.... or even the guys all tall bikes....
at this point it is apparent the ride was not successful when you have people like Osnap who has his own great ride he leads not enjoying CM at all....
change the tone and start putting ideas and follow through with them.... I agree with AT that all the bickering over the small issues are making us lose the vision of the bigger picture...which is....
dayone08.30.10 - 9:00 pm
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dayone - you've got your binoculars turned around - it's not negative - it's a smash-formation of perspective and a call to arms.
Alex Thompson responding to a
comment by dayone
08.30.10 - 9:03 pm
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People who failed to give Alex Thompson a reach around.
Joe Borfo08.30.10 - 9:16 pm
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There's a lot of failures on that one Borfo.
Look - dayone - it's just a personal thought that was jerked out of me. For Trickmilla it might go differently:
People we failed to connect with while AT attacked Ted Rogers personally.
People we failed to connect with while people naysayed well intended poster campaigns.
... and so on. I wouldn't necessarily agree with it, but that's the same message, ported over a little bit to milla's universe, with a nod to what he considers my failures.
The flipside is that we can reconnect, we ought to reconnect, and I certainly, and I hope others, will strive to reconnect.
Alex Thompson responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
08.30.10 - 9:32 pm
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