ridazz and the cops
Thread started by
ricelove at 08.20.06 - 3:59 am
First off, I would like to thank the organizer of the Riot-on-Sunset ride. It was a RIOT!!! I especially enjoyed cruising down sunset strip and showing off my sweet ride to all the wannabes.
I am wondering out loud here about more difficult rides like this. Ridazz events are getting bigger and more complicated, which probably led to the cops involvement. If the group was smaller, or if it had taken place in a less congested area, then we would probably not had the police corking for us. I personally didn't like the police being there, even if they did help us out.
Now when the police get involved, this brings about an entirely new dynamic. Most of the time, I am suspicious of cops cuz they are known to provoke or hassle ridazz. Correct me if I am wrong, but we aren't riding for any kind of unified cause, we are just bike enthusiasts getting together to explore and enjoy this city in a way that wouldn't be possible in a car. I am not in any kind of mortal danger that warrants police escort.
any comments?
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as a massive group of people we present a traffic problem at the very least, and at the worst there are elements who harass drivers, jeer at them, yell at them when they honk or get into altercations....
most of the time it's just a traffic issue. the cops rode along on Riot because we were causing traffic problems. They repeatedly asked everyone via bullhorn to stay to the right lane and like that night there probably will always be some ridazz who refuse to obey or care. I'm assuming that's why they eventually decided to come along and they probably will always ride along until we are able to discipline ourselves. I talked to the cops in the cruiser and they didnt seem pissed or even irritated they just reiterated what they were saying on the PA which was stay to the right...
Roadblock08.20.06 - 5:56 am
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This is the way I see it. I ride for my own reasons. The rides organized here and bikeboom.com, that are Ridazzesque, are routes. Someone(zz) decide on a route, they meet at a certain place at a certain time. Then they RIDE. That's the mission statement. Nothing more, nothing less.
To assume that something illegal is going to happen (the only justification for Police presence) is insulting and demeaning.
I'm just riding my f-ing bike!
p.s. I'm not belittleling the organizers of these rides. NOT AT ALL. As someone that has organized many-a-drunken events. I totally appreciate these rides. I love them. I love the spoke-cards. I love the routes. I love the people. If I didn't care for these rides, you wouldn't see me bothering with my blather. I want these rides to continue, and they will. With or without the fuzz.
Ride On!
the reverend dak08.20.06 - 2:27 pm
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"To assume that something illegal is going to happen (the only justification for Police presence) is insulting and demeaning. "
you are only assuming that they are assuming you are going to do something illegal... they didnt actually look for things to harass us about... they could have found stuff....
I noticed plenty of people with beers. they were discrete about it but had the cops wanted to they could have looked. My boy was riding with an open container and there was a cop to his left on a bike.... the cop wasnt interested in that. they were just there to get us on our way. even if you give the cops the most evil of intentions the worst motive was that they just wanted us gone. Having us follow the traffic laws was causing jam ups too....
Roadblock08.20.06 - 7:00 pm
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As with most people, my assumptions are just based on my personal experiences. But that should go without saying, otherwise I would have to write a disclaimer to everything I write - because basically everything I write is based on my observations, which is translated into perception, which is influenced by my experiences. Which in turn is usually, i assume, to be unique.
the reverend dak08.20.06 - 10:39 pm
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Act like a fool and cops will normally treat a fool as such. People on the Riot ride were not acting foolishly and the cops didn't have any blatant invitations to treat anyone like a fool. I have nothing to hide from the cops and have no beef with the cops. Like I said several times on the ride after hearing snide remarks about them, they are just people doing a job that is probably one of the most difficult and unappreciated professions in the World. They should bring donuts next time though...
Jeronimo08.21.06 - 1:09 am
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I had a talk with one of the bike cops and he explained to me that we startled them and took them by surprise. I took a look at it from their perspective and can understand. Regardless of how feel about law enforcement in relation to social and political issues, the have a job to do.
How often to 200+ or 1300+ meet in one spot for one unified reason? not very often. It's a very powerful thing that we are all doing here, whether we are conscious of it or not. Most often, people that congregate in the nature that we have, have thier own agendas. Often these agendas challenge the framework of our systems and society. There has often been a rift in communication between these types of organized events and Law Enforcement, ending usually in disaster. With out communication, Fear will overtake even the best intentions in my opinion.
I had no idea that the cops were going to come and that they were going to be as awesome as they were. I'm glad they came. I think it was a giant step forward for biking in Los Angeles. After all, isn't respect all we really want?
anonymitytheif08.21.06 - 11:30 am
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Put it this way. If we learn how to ride in a mass and NOT cause traffic problems or trash.... the cops wont care anymore because they wont get complaints.
riding in a large mass is a tough equation to solve. how do we do it without causing a traffic headache? we're all still working on it and in the process we're learning how to ride our bikes in a safer manner. The good news from last Friday is that we're making friends with the cops rather than being adversarial to them. we're gonna get more respect on the streets because of that. I'd rather have motorists fear running us down becasue they know the cops support us, rather than motorist's feel like they can abuse us because the cops are against us.
Roadblock08.21.06 - 11:37 am
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I agree w/ Jeronimo, anonymitytheif, and Roadblock.
Personally, I find the cops are FAR from perfect. Sometimes they're doing shit that's flat-out unconstitutional. Yet, other times they're there saving your ass. That said, you can either treat the dynamic of COPS with a blanket response and say they're 'the enemy' or on the other hand, exalt them with immunity as 'liberty incarnate' but in my humble opinion it needs to be treated with a more flexible and adaptive response:
Be respectful and empathetic to their job. If they reciprocate that respect likewise then 'together' we've achieved being 'creative' about our relationships and not the counter-productive alternative of destroying our goals. I know I want to come home alive, not get incarcerated, and look back one fuckin' rad night of good times and good people. I don't need to goad and butt heads with LAPD.
I heard a few snide remarks tossed at the cops as well and it was unwarranted.
I don't feel any less of a man because I didn't arbitrarily call some cop a 'pig' last Friday night. They could've barricaded us, ticketed us, arrested us but they chose not to. I've been involved in activism/direct-action/and break-away marches where the batons were brandished.
I can't wait for the next Hollywood Ridazz roll!
ranzerox08.21.06 - 12:27 pm
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A friend of mine came along for this rde. (his first) and was a little annoyed at the police presence. Personally I too felt a little "baby sat" . O.k. so here's the thing though. I have a copy of the 2006 DMV driving book. everywhere its mentioned, bikes have the same rights AND responsibilities as motorists.. Whats going on with bikers in L.A. is that we want to have our cake and eat it too. Because its L.A., because people are car obsessed here, becuase there are no bike lanes, because people dont "get it", makes biking fun in this city. sorta "outlaw, outsider" transportation. BUT this city will never change if we do not work with the motorists and work with the LAPD. thats just a fact. And that means stopping for red lights. CORKING IS ILLEGAL. I think the community here in LA is very dynamic and special but that does not exempt us from the law. You wont see me stopping for reds if I can get away with it, but when we are in such visible numbers, we HAVE to demonstrate our commitment to the law. (for a quick how-to, think about the start of the civil rights movements, of black americans and the first homosexual marches) HAVING said that, we are also under no lawful obligation (that I know of) to submitt a route in advance,. (no one in a car is required to tell the city where they are going) so there is a fine line here...
toph08.22.06 - 10:55 am
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i didnt mind the cops. i wasn't paying attention, and i was stoked on vicodin from my wisdom tooth, but i really didnt mind. I also dont mind fixing flat tires and going to scoops for some vegan peanut butter coffee ice cream. on my bicycle wish list is.
1. more bike lanes in los angeles.
2. Dawn Ridazz (where we stop for croissants and crepes)
3. Force Fields for bicycles
4. better lights for bicycles that run on low energy.
5. and a human powered city
studiodrome08.22.06 - 11:52 am
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"CORKING IS ILLEGAL. I think the community here in LA is very dynamic and special but that does not exempt us from the law. You wont see me stopping for reds if I can get away with it, but when we are in such visible numbers, we HAVE to demonstrate our commitment to the law. "
toph I think you hit the nail on the head... I too ride through lights when I can get away with it when I'm riding as an individual or with less than 10 riders... but for anything more than 15-20 ridazz we begin to present a traffic problem. this traffic problem needs to be solved by riders in such a way that requires as little attention from outside forces as possible. if we can show individual restraint against doing things that hurt the group as a whole then we win. If people still insist on being rowdy and disruptive to traffic and motorists then the police will become interested and will become involved meaning we lose.
Roadblock08.22.06 - 12:36 pm
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These rides are very symbolic of the kinds of lives we live, especially en masse. The larger the numbers, the larger percentage of assholes show up. But it's up to us to keep these fuckers in line. By looking for some authority to pick up after our littering, beligerant and malicious selves, we are giving up on any sense of personal accountability.
Would I frequent a BAR that had a routine Police presence? why or why not? That's where I'm coming from. That's all.
the reverend dak08.22.06 - 1:29 pm
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as for the lights that run on low power... my head light is powered my a dyno in my font hub... it is bright as all hell, has a second light that is a strobe, and never runs out of batteries (obviously) hopefully this helps with your headlight request... as for the force field, well, im still waiting for that one too.
whiskey and bruises08.22.06 - 1:52 pm
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so basically we are now blocking traffic? are we not part of traffic?
do we need police escorts if we are part of traffic?
whether corking is legal or not is debatable. Rather, the main thing that we should consider as bicyclists among 'tons" of cars is safety. corking just prevents cars from getting amid the large bicycle ride and posing possible danger to riders and the drivers too. it is always better to keep the ride together.
there are others that cork as well, and most people don't throw a big fit about it. construction sites often cork when they need to have a procession through. Motorcycles cork too.
if you are talking about the civil rights movement, it was an act of civil disobedience against jim crow LAWS that sparked a movement, not obedience to the racist laws. anyway, i am not suggesting that biking en masse and corking is going to be a spark for anti-auto movement, but most movements occur when people break rules.... If you ask me, the laws were created with cars in mind, not bikes.
ricelove08.22.06 - 2:10 pm
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un permtited corking is illegal. funeral processions and parades all require permits.
the civil rights movement made some progress in the beginning because of peaceful civil disobedience against unjust laws that people became sympathetic to. the movement won over hearts and minds of a critical mass of sympathetic ruling class. a lot of that good will unfortunately took a turn because of agents provacateur and those impatient or fedup enough to turn violent.... the movement now it is in a stalemate of sorts... there is still racism and there is still sexism. it will only ever change if there is a genuiine hearts and minds consensus that racism should end. that wont happen if violent means gives the opposition an excuse to retaliate with overwhelming force.
to outright physically overthrow the ruling class (cars) we would have to mount a revolution so huge that our numbers at this point could never support it. it would be crushed or at best become something of a stalemate where motorists begrudgingly deal with what they perceive to be rowdy bicyclists and thus treat them all as second class inhabitants on the road. we wont have the backing of the police either which will embolden the cars to honk and treat riders like dirt... basically things will stay the same.
the only real option IMHO is to creep into the psyche of motorists in a friendly way. bomb them with butter! covertly creep on to the streets by obeying the laws of the ruling class and then slowly erode their empire... their tyrannical hold on the streets will melt away before they even realize they dont like us. win the hearts and minds of the motorists and they wont know they've been overthrown even as they fall.
draw attention to ourselves as "unruly un-cooths" - as fun as that can be - and we risk being crushed by the wheels of injustice.
Roadblock08.22.06 - 2:59 pm
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i would just like to add that it is a wonderful feeling to see people actually debating, and sharing ideas, instead of arguing and throwing around uncalled for slurs on the internet... its good to see that the majority of cyclists are not only intelligent, but also open minded people.
whiskey and bruises08.22.06 - 4:06 pm
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With 150-200 ridazz, I don't think corking is needed as much.
It's when the ride reaches 1500+ that corking is a must.
kov08.22.06 - 8:25 pm
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"With 150-200 ridazz, I don't think corking is needed as much.
It's when the ride reaches 1500+ that corking is a must."
believe it or not the opposite is true.... a quick cork to get 10-20 ridazz through a light is very tolerable for motorists and is actually safer for the Ridazz becuase people sometimes dont anticipate the stop and therefore crash into the Ridazz that did stop.
when the ride is 1500 we have no choice but to obey traffic signals. there is just no way that motorists and cops will tolerate the 20 minute traffic tie-ups.
Too Tall Jahmal08.22.06 - 8:51 pm
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I think that corking makes sense whith the size of the group we had on the Riot ride. It is just safer, more organized, and more efficient. I think that the cop corkers proves this point.
I do feel that corking intersections for a group of 1000+ riders is pushing it. I did some corking on the Pirate ride and in dealing with motorists I found that they were initially annoyed, but once thanked for their patience and given information, they were excited. But as riders continued to stream by as they did with such numbers, no amount of personal gratitude could mitigate thier frustration.
I think that it boils down to a matter of respect. We want respect, drivers want respect. I think as long as we are not coming from a place of entitlement, and we extend this state of being to those we have to share the streets with, then we can find a way to coexist.
anonymitytheif08.23.06 - 5:03 pm
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Ridazz Roulette!