HIT N RUN! LOOK OUT!
Thread started by
Aktive_420 at 04.8.12 - 2:30 pm
http://bikinginla.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/breaking-news-l-a-cyclist-seriously-injured-in-dtla-road-rage-attack/
PLEASE KEEP AN EYE OUT!
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milla, really? just a lil err on the side of, "i wonder if she wants her face enlarged" might be kinda nice, you know?
markd responding to a
comment by trickmilla
04.9.12 - 12:06 pm
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This is awful. This driver must be found. I am just reading of this now. Can anyone speak at the police commission meeting this week about this? What is being done to put dangerous drivers in check? There isn't much info available about the car or driver, but there's a male in a white lexus out in the city practically getting away with murder. Are there any witnesses at all?
kryxtanicole04.10.12 - 1:57 am
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So fucking pissed right now.
LAPD Hates Bikes.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by trickmilla
04.10.12 - 11:40 am
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I’m so sorry for Susana Schick. It’s going to be a long road to recovery for her. I’m glad she wasn’t killed and wish her justice and a speedy recovery.
On June 12th 2011 a dear friend of mine was hit on his bike in Beverly Hills. The girl left the scene, but turned herself in the next day with her lawyer. He was in a coma for two weeks and after months of rehab he was released. These days he is doing great and is happy to be alive, but he lost almost everything in his life (job, house…). But he did receive the bill at around 1.4Mil for all the surgeries and hospital stay. He’s lucky he survived the accident.
The Beverly Hills police failed. He has a lawyer, who has tried to get the DA to prosecute the girl, but the DA refused the case (not enough evidence). So, he’s going to take her to civil court… The girl has been free of everything. Not even a ticket for reckless driving.
These people need to be held responsible for their actions. The LAPD treats cyclists as less than human, and their investigative actions are little to none. We need to put the pressure on the DA and the LAPD to defend our rights.
turbodropshop2504.10.12 - 11:52 am
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Screw them.
Who controls the police? Do we need to focus on the Mayor instead. He claims to be "bike friendly" .. cough cough... Should we put the pressure on Tony instead?
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by turbodropshop25
04.10.12 - 11:59 am
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Also, what happened to Christine Dahab, and the eleven cyclists. Is she free like the girl who hit my friend. Oh, and the Lexus drive who hit Susana? Obviously till they're found... How can these people live with what they've done?
turbodropshop2504.10.12 - 12:17 pm
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WHERES SGT. KRUMER AT???
he fixes everything
andres8404.10.12 - 12:42 pm
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L.A. cyclist mowed down in apparent hit-run road-rage
F-ing OUTRAGE. SHE SAID THE WRONG THING TO THE GUY SO
HE RUNS INTO HER ASS ON SPRING STREET. RIGHT ON THE GREEN FUCKING LANE.
i'M GONNA CARRY A BIG HEAVY PIPE WITH ME AND BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF NEXT
DRIVE GIVES ME SHIT IN HER HONOR.
THIS IS BULLSHIT.
Bernie04.10.12 - 1:52 pm
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Hello Everyone,
I just returned from Easter break and was dismayed to hear about what happened to Susana. I was also troubled to hear about the LAPD response and began doing some inquiries.
While there is much that I can not disclose right now I would like to correct some misconcpetions as to the LAPD response.
1) The LAPD were immediately at the scene and in fact were the ones that contacted ambulance.
2) Detectives did go out and speak with Susana at the hospital.
3) A report was taken.
The suggestion that LAPD did not respond or even take a report is inaccurate. I will do my best to keep everyone updated. A press release with detailed information may be forthcoming. The investigation continues and video footage is being sought.
Sgt. David Krumer04.10.12 - 4:09 pm
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Sgt. K,
I assume you have already contacted Ted Rogers,
most of the reporting on this has referred back to him, as he was one of the first to cover the story.
===
Can you address a hypothetical that many people are asking about?
Can or would LAPD check local surveillance footage in a situation like this, to see if this incident (or the suspect) can be found somewhere on tape?
As you know, unless some eye witnesses step forward or some recording exists of the presumed crime, the odd of justice (let alone a timely investigation & prosecution) in this case are very slim.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
04.10.12 - 4:39 pm
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Can or would LAPD check local surveillance footage in a situation like this, to see if this incident (or the suspect) can be found somewhere on tape?
Yes...and investigators have been directed to look for video surveilance that may have captured the incident.
Witnesses and evidence assist in locating a suspect, building a case, securing a prosecution, and evaluating guilt/innocense. But the LAPD will typically proceed as if this is a crime based solely on the victims statement alone. If you say a person pointed a gun at you, a crime report is taken even if there are no witnesses or evidence to substanciate your allegation of a crime (unless there is information to suggest your allegation is unfounded).
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by trickmilla
04.10.12 - 6:01 pm
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LOADED GUN SHOOTING AT YOU VS. WHITE LEXUS RAMMING YOU IN THE BIKE LANE = NO DIFFERENCE
Joe Borfo04.10.12 - 6:17 pm
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Is it true there was another cyclist injured in a hit and run around that area at the same time that night?
susanna Schick says:
April 11, 2012 at 10:52 am
Yeah detective Wilson was honestly surprised there was no report in the system and was very open, just wanted the facts from me. But the two officers who came to visit me the next day didn’t know her and that she’d been here. Also they clearly wanted to believe it was a single vehicle crash. My dad measured the rear wheel and told me it was definitely out of round. A- no wonder it suddenly felt like a vicious wobble I couldn’t control. B- if a wheel were to get dented due to a pothole or some other road hazard, it’d be the front. C- I’ve used motorcycles as my primary form of transport since 1985 and none of those crashes incurred this many broken bones at once. The pelvic bone is too strong to break so easily.
More importantly, a friend informed me that a friend of his is still in ICU here after a hit & run on his bicycle around the corner from where I was hit. It was also around 11:30 pm on Friday night, on 5th btwn Spring & main.
anty
04.11.12 - 10:59 am
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link from here: http://bikinginla.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/lapd-reportedly-dismisses-hit-and-run-in-pinkyracer-case-in-the-middle-of-an-ongoing-investigation/#comment-27118
anty04.11.12 - 10:59 am
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"Friends of the victim say two detectives interviewed Schick at the hospital and claim the officers tried to convince Schick she was wrong about the hit-and-run."
Joe Borfo04.11.12 - 11:05 am
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She's been riding and racing motorcycles for 25 years and she broke half her bones cruising her bicycle at 5 mph on Spring Str ???
Is the Lexus driver a cop?
Obviously the LAPD doesn't want to do anything about it.
Her family should hire a PI.
marino responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
04.11.12 - 11:36 am
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LAPD officers were first on the scene and witnessed the entire interaction. The officer giving out information is a female. Schick had an interaction with the female passenger. Looks like the Lexus contained at least one LAPD officer to me.
gregb responding to a
comment by marino
04.11.12 - 1:00 pm
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My questions were rejected by the screener.
Joe Borfo04.11.12 - 2:28 pm
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typical cop mentality:
If you ride a bike (and you're not decked out in Lance Armstrong attire in the french alps), then you must be a low wage scum up to no good (because you probably don't pay taxes and are slowing down all the SUVs behind you who pay my salary). Therefore, you are just a worthless homeless piece of shit and you deserve to die... Where's my donut?
Joe Borfo04.11.12 - 3:11 pm
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The LAPD keeps making it abundantly clear that cyclists are not the least in or of their interests, as if we're not working first class citizens. It's time the people band together and begin making plans for the removal of key players. We put people in power, we should be able to remove them from it.
A big FUCK YOU to the LAPD. Thanks for endangering the lives of my friends and myself.
July
July04.11.12 - 8:29 pm
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Now two cops are attesting that they saw her fall?
NEW NBC ARTICLE
WTF? Why wouldn't they have said so from the start? Looking very suspicious if you ask me.
The news also twists shit around so I don't know what to think anymore. This is all very disturbing. I give up.
Joe Borfo04.11.12 - 9:58 pm
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Hello All,
Just so you know, Susanna was re-interviewed last night. The initial report that was taken was an "injury" report based on the officers observations and Susanna not articulating she went down as a result of a collision. After the second interview the report was reclassified as a crime report and the Department will be proceeding accordingly. The LAPD wants to do right by Susanna, the cycling community, and all those that we serve, but we can only go off of the information we have at the time. If knew information comes to light that would require a different posture we will of course re-evaluate and act accordingly.
Sgt. David Krumer04.11.12 - 10:44 pm
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This honestly does sound quite rotten. As in, something is amiss. Sustaining the injuries that Susanna has is hardly possible from a simple fall on a flat street, no matter how fast she was going. To top it off, all of a sudden there are two police witnesses. This sounds like foul play. This sounds like a cover up. This sounds like someone is trying to pull one over on all of us, especially Susanna, by making this all look like an unfortunate accident.
kryxtanicole responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
04.11.12 - 10:49 pm
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To Protect and Swerve
FBI04.11.12 - 10:52 pm
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@ Sgt. Krumer
Does the LAPD know any names of people who were in the white lexus?
gregb responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
04.12.12 - 12:57 am
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Cops, lie? Surely not.
PC04.12.12 - 1:11 am
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...but seriously, all this back-and-forth is obscuring the real issue, to wit: were any condoms observed near the scene?
PC04.12.12 - 5:26 am
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Hi gregb,
To my knowledge the occupants of the vehicle have not yet been located or identified. Since the incident was only recently reclassified as a "crme" v. an "injury" it may take a few days to match the partial plate provided to the vehicle type...assuming that a match can even be made.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by gregb
04.12.12 - 7:29 am
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Hello Everyone,
I have read through the posts and certainly understand the skepticism which many have expressed toward the "official" explanation as released to the press. But please allow me to put a few things in perspective:
1) The Department's first point of contact were the two officers who were at the scene and observed Susanna sustain her injuries. The Department's actions from that point forward were premised on the officers observations that the vehicle was not a factor at the time of Susanna going down.
2) When Susanna was initially interviewed she did not state or articulate that her injuries were the result of a collision...her account in no way countered the officers account of the incident. An injury report was taken.
3) At this point this incident was not on the Department's radar and the only persons with knowledge of it at all were the limited LAPD personnel that had direct contact with Susanna.
3) The first reports of a possible collision came not from Susanna but from her friend and when the Department began getting inquiries (which are usually handled by the folks in charge) they had no answers as they were not briefed on what was believed to be at the time a non-crime minor incident...resulting in a perception that the LAPD was unresponcive and that no reports were taken.
4) The media picked up the story as relayed by Susanna's friend. Once allegations of a collision were brought forward, investigators reinterviewed Susanna to clarify her previous statement and the incident was recalssified as a crime...with the investigation ongoing.
5) The occupants of the vehicle were not sought because prior to the allegation of a crime there was no reason to do so. Likewise, Susanna's bike was returned to her apartment rather than taken as evidence because at the time there was no evidentiary value as no crime had been perceived.
6) I am not a doctor, nor a physicist. I do not know at what speed a person would have to be traveling to sustain the types of injuries that Susanna has. While I may be able to speculate based on my personal experainces, I am not an expert and would not be qualified to say that the injuries are inconsistant with a single party crash. Also, to say that it is impossible for a person with Susanna's experaince to lose control of her bike simply ignores the fact that professional people who perform flawlessly 99 times out of 100 are still human enough for errors to occur a small percent of the time.
7) Finally, please keep in mind that the Department did not dig in its heals and take the position that as far as we are concerned this case is closed. From the beginning we have been responsive and making every effort to do right by the parties involved and are receptive to any information that would assist in the proper handling of this case.
Sgt. David Krumer04.12.12 - 8:16 am
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Perhaps you can understand our collective frustration with hit and run cases as many of us have been the victim of hit and run attacks and have seen no effort on the part of the police. I myself being struck on my own street, having the person's description, car description, licence place # and address filed a report and the police did nothing were it was obvious that I had sustained injuries (my face was swollen like a chipmunk). My experience is commonplace and thus the LAPD's credibility is these circumstances are questionable at best, frankly the police seem more interested in writing traffic tickets than dealing with any real crime or protecting the citizens of this city as they are espousing to do.
Sgt, you have been assigned as a liaison to us, the cycling community and it seems to me at least it is more of a watch dog role than one where we (the bike riders) and you (the cops) are on convergent paths of protecting the cycling community at large which will only get larger as time goes on for various factors not important to this thread here. These clashes with motorists will only increase in time and It's my opinion that the city, the cycling community and the police need to see the growth and address the problems of adjusting to an ever increasing bicycle presence, plan ahead and have some due diligence in making this city as cycling friendly as it can. Follow through on hit and run cases would be a great place to start.
rev106 responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
04.12.12 - 8:54 am
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LAPD spokesman Lt Paul Vernon who is featured on NBC alleging that Susana fell on her own is not a newbie to blaming the victim.
In this story
http://local.nixle.com/alert/4777142/ about muggings by the Civic Center, he says people wouldn't get mugged if they kept their eyes off their cell phones.
LAPD would rather pay the likes of Lt Vernon and Sgt Krumer to do PR than investigate hit and run cases.
Of course Susana has no idea what hit her. She was hit from behind and it would take some footwork to find witnesses and videos from the scene. Do we expect LAPD to do it? NO. As many have said they don't do the work when you hand them the License Plate# of the perpetrator right in front of their noses.
Thanks for nothing LAPD. Keep escorting Critical Mass. Great use of your time.
marino04.12.12 - 9:17 am
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Hi rev106,
I counld not agree with you more. Hit and Runs need to be treated as the crimes that they are and deserve proper follow-up and investigation. I share your concerns as well as such vocal advocates like Roadblock. The issue is not whether resources should be devoted to investigating hit and runs, the answer is of course they should. The challenge is deciding how many resources are appropriate and prioritizing those resources. We could assign more officers to hit and runs...but that would be at the cost of investigations for violent crimes. We could assign more resources from patrol to detective functions, but that may result in less crime prevention.
Recently ROadblock went to the Police Commisission to argue for putting a higher prioroity on hit and runs so that resources may be redistributed. I would encourage you to likewise go to the police commission and make your priorities known so that the Department can adjust accordingly.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by rev106
04.12.12 - 10:11 am
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Hitting someone with a car (intentionally or not) and then feeling the scene fits my definition of a "violent crime".
mr rollers responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
04.12.12 - 11:07 am
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Hi mr rollers,
While I don't disagree with you, the question would be asked as follows::
Should the Department shift resources away from investigating crimes such as robbery, rape, homicide, and aggravated assault in favor of investigating Hit and Runs.
Incidentally, the current distribution of detectives reflects the following priorities from greatest to least:
1) Violent crimes - (I.e. robbery, rape, murder, agg assault)
2) Traffic related investigations (I.e fatal and severe traffic incidents or crime related traffic incidents such as DUI and Hit and Runs)
3) Property crimes - (i.e. GTA, burglary, theft)
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by mr rollers
04.12.12 - 11:34 am
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We hear a lot of stories about the police prosecuting gangs, drug dealers, and robbers, but the fact is that more people die from cars than from drugs and weapons combined. So yeah. I do think people who use a car in the commission of a violent crime, like hit and run, even if the initial contact was an "accident" more of a danger to our society than many of the other criminals who given higher priority by the police department.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
04.12.12 - 12:29 pm
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They should shift resources from escorting bike rides.
marino responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
04.12.12 - 12:41 pm
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Hit & Runs should be right up there with Chickenloving.
Joe Borfo04.12.12 - 12:53 pm
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Hello trickmilla...long time no chat!
Yes...more people die from traffic related incidents than from all violent crime combined according to articles I have read. That being said people are generally more afraid of (and less tolerant of) violent crime. Cyclists are a subset of the larger community may feel more threatened by traffic related crimes and thus demand more resources allocated toward addressing them...however the larger community demands more attention be given to violent crimes (even if they are statistically less likely to be victims). The way to shift this is to make known to your elected officials that you want them to direct LAPD to reassess how they allocate resources to conform to community expectations. Your elect officials than balance the needs/concerns/demands of their cycling constituency against other voices that they represent.
Despite what many feel about the LAPD we are public servants and we take our direction from the community via elected representatives of the community.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by trickmilla
04.12.12 - 2:07 pm
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Hi Marino,
The LAPD presence at LACM has been steadily declining. Those officers however are patrol resources not investigative and even if they were not present on bike rides they would be addressing other traffic or crime related activities...not hit and run investigations.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by marino
04.12.12 - 2:10 pm
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While I don't disagree with you, the question would be asked as follows::
Should the Department shift resources away from investigating crimes such as robbery, rape, homicide, and aggravated assault in favor of investigating Hit and Runs.
Fallacy of the false dilemma.
If LAPD should ever manage to wrap its institutional head around the idea that the violent crime of bodily-injury hit and run--which, I'll remind you, is both violent and a crime--is, in fact, a violent crime, it would have the additional option of shifting nonessential non-investigative resources over toward the investigation of these violent crimes. Yes, this may involve "making" more detectives. No, you couldn't do it tomorrow. Yes, as I just implied, you would have to cut back somewhere else. Yes, Chief Beck and Mayor Villaraigosa would have a harder time crowing about decreasing rates of violent crime. But it would be an option.
PC responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
04.12.12 - 4:12 pm
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Hi PC,
Yes you are certainly correct that we can hire more officers and or promote more detectives. But the reality for today is that there are a finite number of officers assigned to investigations and the dilemma is real...to increase in one place you must cut somewhere else. While I only identified one potential source (violent crimes) there are of course numerous others and we could just as easily say:
Should we shift resources away from...
Internal Affairs and investigating allegations of misconduct by officers.
Community Relations units (including the position of cycling liaison :>)
Narcotics, Vice, Gang and specialized enforcement details
Juvenile Impact Programs
In short I am saying that while you may put an emphasis on Hit and Run investigations...other members of the community may place a higher emphasis on other Department activities.
So of course its not one (violent crime) or the other (H&R investigations) as you correctly pointed out by stating it is a false dilemma. But it is one or SOME other and there is nothing false about that.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by PC
04.12.12 - 5:19 pm
reply
I cant wait to hear how someone can fall, on their own, and somehow break some ribs and their pelvis... must be something to do with the green bike lane.
Rage04.13.12 - 9:38 pm
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Sgt. Krumer,
I am confused, please clarify. You stated that she did not state that her injuries were the result of a collission.
Are your officers really that piss stupid that they can not figure that out or at least ask her?
They need to be held responsible for the actions/questioning so that problems like these do not happen and get swept under the rug.
revolution04.16.12 - 12:42 pm
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Hi Revolution,
If a person were just found in the street with significant injuries from what appears to be a collision than even absent a statement from the victim (who might be unconscious) the police would proceed as if there were a collision.
That was no the case here...two officers witnessed the incident and stated that no collision took place. When Susanna was interviewed she was asked what happened...she would not be asked if she was hit because we want an untainted account of what occurred as recalled by the victim. Typically officers ask "What Happened?" and allow the person to elaborate. They ask follow up question like where, when, and how...but do not supply the possible answer.
So its not that the officers were too stupid to figure out that she was hit because from their perspective she was not...and its not that the investigators were too lazy to ask if she was hit; they simply did not want to lead her to a conclusion that she did not come to on her own.
In any case once there was an allegation of a crime...the Department did re-classify the case, looked for video, and will do an examination of the evidence and statements.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by revolution
04.16.12 - 1:14 pm
reply
I cant wait to hear how someonecan fall, on their own, and somehow break some ribsand their pelvis... mustbe something to do with the green bike lane.
Well, the cops' latest spin is that Schick was doing 30 mph at the time her bike knocked itself down. Does anyone here buy that?
PC responding to a
comment by Rage
04.16.12 - 5:32 pm
reply
I think a lot of angry cyclists may end up looking a little silly if the video shows that it was a single vehicle (bicycle) accident.
Maybe, just maybe, the two officers that WITNESSED THE ACCIDENT, and Sgt. Krumer, are acting in good faith here and telling the truth.
There are enough B.S. ACTUAL hit and runs that aren't followed up on in L.A. already.
Raging at the police about an accident that police officer witnesses have already stated was not a hit and run, (which has also been corroborated by a witness riding his/her skateboard down the same street at the time - http://laist.com/2012/04/12/police_continue_exhaustive_investigation.php) may be counterproductive.
Why don't we work with Sgt. Krumer and the LAPD to ensure that those cyclists who DO become victims of hit and run in the future know exactly what steps to take to maximize the chances that their claim is taken seriously and the appropriate investigation is performed.
JB responding to a
comment by PC
04.16.12 - 9:19 pm
reply
Y'all can sukadik.
FBI04.16.12 - 11:19 pm
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Hi JB,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I certainly understand some folks here being skeptical of law enforcement and the LAPD in particular based on some less than ideal history. While I can not divulge all of the details that I am privy to on this case I can say with utmost confidence that when the results are made known, the handling of the case will be viewed as appropriate and any suggestion of willful disregard of cyclists who are victims of collisions resulting from a pro-motorist bias will be put to rest (at least with regards to this particular case).
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by JB
04.17.12 - 9:24 am
reply
We all know people that have gone down as a result of an incident with a vehicle when the vehicle never touches them.
You make it sound like we need to make sure that they hit us before we fall off our bike injured.
revolution04.17.12 - 1:49 pm
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In most cases where a cyclist is the victim of a hit and run they may very well be unconscious and not know what happened. If that were the case, when interviewed it would be enough to say "I think someone hit me"...or even absent that statement if the bike exhibited damage consistent with a collision the police could proceed as if there were a crime.
You do not have to be sure you were hit...in fact you do not even have to be hit. If a car moves toward you in a way that you feel a collision is imminent; and as a result you take evasive action, the Police would still consider that an assault with a deadly weapon (if intentional) or a traffic collision by influence if it were the result of inattention. Contact is not a prerequisite to a report or an investigation.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by revolution
04.17.12 - 3:09 pm
reply
In light of the officers who claim to have seen the fall, I have taken a wait and see approach until I make up my mind about what actually happened that night.
However, when those same police witnesses claim that the rider was traveling at 30 miles an hour on flat ground in a area with lots of traffic and lights, it definitely raises our suspicions.
I don't doubt that Pinky or many of the rest of us could reach 30mph on a long flat uninterrupted straightway or bombing down a nice hill, however a cyclist doing 30 in the area of DTLA where the crash happened doesn't really pass the smell test and makes the officer witnesses appear to be ignorant at best, and dishonest at worst. Which doesn't do a lot to garner our trust of them as primary witnesses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance#Typical_speeds
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
04.17.12 - 5:19 pm
reply
@Sgt Krumer
I understand this case is close
Can you fill us in on the findings of the LAPD?
Are the LAPD witnesses still claiming that she was traveling 30+ per hour?
trickmilla04.26.12 - 7:47 pm
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The investigation has been concluded and after multiple interviews with the victim and corroboration from independent (non-Department) witnesses and evidence it was determined that there was no vehicle contributing to Susanna's crash.
While I certainly understand the cycling communities concerns about this case and the desire to know in detail what occurred, there are some confidentiality issues that prohibit public disclosure.
While we can not breach Susanna's confidentiality, I advised an attorney in contact with Susanna that she can request a copy of the investigation and if she decides to release any additional information to the public it would be entirely her prerogative to do so.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by trickmilla
04.27.12 - 10:43 am
reply
Wow really? Wasn't there video footage?
It's a sad and scary thought that justice has not been served. This only further proves the disrespect of the city's mentality towards cyclist. Such a disgrace....
Gizzard05.2.12 - 5:42 pm
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