Cops tackling cyclists at LACM
Thread started by
Team Creanberry at 11.28.09 - 1:30 am
We witnessed the takedown of the cyclist at at Los Angeles and Olympic at 8:50. You can contact us at team_creanberry@yahoo.com . . .
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I was right behind the rider when they were snatched off their bike. It was not as bad as the NYC body check but still un-provoked and un-called for. Their actions endangered the safety of many of our riders and could have caused a major crash.
I think was a male cop (a short cop, go fig lol). He was like "Come on get off" as he grabbed the rider off their bike. This was not hard to do because we all slowed to like 2-3 mph going around the black and white that was blocking the entire lane of traffic. This was clearly done out of frustration of his inability to exert his authority to the mass. There was no reason for this arrest and I really wounder what BS charge they decided to impose on the rider. The rider, as well as a lot of us in the middle of the pack, had no choice but to go around the cop car. Stopping or moving to the left or right side of the street was not an option and to do so would have caused a crash endangering the safety of of all the riders around them.
ToddAlmighty11.28.09 - 7:11 am
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Can't say this enough. Fuck the police
Debut21311.28.09 - 10:02 am
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we should all say something if it becomes an issue cause that was just wrong
sklank11.28.09 - 11:09 am
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Can't say this enough. Fuck the police
Better yet, give all non-felons an easier opportunity to purchase weapons and require them to take the proper handling courses.
Replace all under-educated street-cops with "Examiner-Marshals"(an actual MD or pathologist that acts as a streetcop and medical examiner) and that will save the city alot of frustration and millions, if not billions of dollars.
I'm coming to the conclusion that the American people don't need a monopoly in the protection racket.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by Debut213
11.28.09 - 11:19 am
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I got grabbed by the female officer after trying to ride around all the kids they had already brought down since I was at the back of the pack. She didn't ask me to stop, I was obeying all traffic laws, she just fucking grabbed my upper arm while I was riding by at about 15 mph trying to catch up to the pack. Thankfully I was able to shake her off and not go down. We were on Los Angeles St., no traffic, no peds, totally quiet, and I guess this pair of cops got pissed that some people were riding on the wrong side of the road.
SO THEY START SLAMMING PEOPLE TO THE GROUND???
WTF? Talk about excessive force.
LouisAve called the watch commander while we were riding between the altercation and USC. I'm writing a letter to Charlie right now.
toweliesbong11.28.09 - 11:25 am
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Wow Adam...guns is the answer? Let all the fool kill one another and some collaterals as well...shoot first answer questions later.
TheJen responding to a
comment by bentstrider
11.28.09 - 11:36 am
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Did I even mention guns in the statement?
I said weapons, this could mean guns, but also could mean legalized pepper spray, batons, or other implements that won't necessarily kill a person.
I'm just getting tired of this notion that every single human being could be reasoned with.
If you truly want to start somewhere then, without having to get cops, guns, lawyers and all the other shit involved, then make it allowable for kids to be spanked without the threat of the discipline-inflicting parents being hauled off on phony child-abuse charges.
That's the thing with many criminals nowadays, they get younger and don't seem to fear anyone.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by TheJen
11.28.09 - 11:52 am
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Call Lieutenant Andre Dawson at 213-792-3551 and report the LAPD assault.
ToddAlmighty11.28.09 - 11:59 am
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That was too easy...yes you did not mention guns. I'm so glad that for the forseeable future that wont be happening. Education and compassion over violence and weaponry any day. If we as a species have to beat our children to discipline them and educate them then we are most certainly doing it wrong. Discipline is teaching...not physical implementation of your hand or other object to another person's body. Parenting that sinks to that level is laziness personified.
TheJen responding to a
comment by bentstrider
11.28.09 - 3:16 pm
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Which is why I'm staying far away from ever having kids.
After having to play the big brother role for a little while, I found it was a job I just couldn't hack(I paid the girl next door to do my job!!)
Don't need child protective services or the county bullnecks turning me into a statistic.
As for how I've managed to avoid violent confrontation and arrest for so long as I have, I find it easier to just disappear into the shadows and then come out of the cave when the smoke is clear.
As far as guns go, I don't own any personally, yet, but I'll have one eventually.
You either own one and love it, or stick to sniffing the roses.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by TheJen
11.28.09 - 3:31 pm
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Oh I like guns...and I like roses. But I also have a good realistic view on humanity. Humanity and guns just don't mix. I'm not against people owning guns, just not as protection. If you like to shoot, as I do and I've shot just about anything you can in the US, that's fine. Keep your gun at a gun locker and shoot it at the range. I'm a big advocate of less guns in the general population.
TheJen responding to a
comment by bentstrider
11.28.09 - 4:41 pm
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i was There and they caught my Cousin
seriously Uncalled for and a waste of time and energy
they didnt like throw you off and it did cause a couple of Accidents in the Back but we still kept on Rollin even though we had to smash up to catch up to the rest of the Ridazz
KillaJayyyy11.28.09 - 9:44 pm
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Andre Dawson is the lieutenant that the new police chief put in charge of LAPD's new "Bike Working Group," which is supposed to be reviewing all of LAPD's policies and procedures to make sure they protect and uphold bicyclists' rights. When crazy ridiculous shit like this goes down, they need to hear about it. His number is 213-792-3551 (he said to call him directly to report cops not respecting bicyclist rights) and you can read more about Lt. Dawson and his new, relatively high-up position
here.
ramonchu11.28.09 - 10:00 pm
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Those who were pulled off their bikes should call this guy. Let's face it, LAPD has gotten in trouble over their high-speed chase policies too. What if they pulled a guy out of a car going 60 mph? Would they not get into trouble for that? It's the same with a bike. If they are throwing people off their bikes, it is dangerous, aggravated assault and it is not only illegal, but it is worth money in a lawsuit.
hockeyjockey responding to a
comment by ramonchu
11.28.09 - 10:08 pm
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"bike working group" read: task force assigned to quelling group social rides.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by ramonchu
11.28.09 - 10:47 pm
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do you have a link please?
X-Large responding to a
comment by Roadblock
11.28.09 - 11:38 pm
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No link. It's all in the wording. They will work to protect cyclists rights. But cyclists rights *in their minds* have nothing to do with large group social rides.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by X-Large
11.29.09 - 8:19 am
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And I'm not saying this Obvious case of abuse shouldn't be reported... There just likely will be measured sympathy when they find out it was a group social ride.
Roadblock11.29.09 - 8:25 am
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Man he headed the crash unit, thet wear pretty much the youth profiling unit.
buckchin11.29.09 - 8:28 am
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There didn't seem to be any problems downtown on the 13th with the Medical Ride, so the real question is why was aggression used to the extreme this time around?
bentstrider responding to a
comment by Roadblock
11.29.09 - 8:33 am
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I'm not sure that Dawson's group is going to be a crackdown on group rides. When I talked to him he said the task force was being formed to address the concerns Beck heard when he was doing his public hearings and thanks to the work of individuals such as AT, groups such as the LACBC he heard cyclists compaints at almost every stop of his and Hizzoner's listening tour.
That being said, he's a thirty year veteran of the force, so don't expect major changes overnight.
I would have someone that was on the ride, preferably someone over 25, give him a call at 9:00 on Monday and talk about what they saw during the ride. It could end up being that this task force isn't the game changer we want it to be, or that it makes things worse; but let's at least give it the chance to succeed and make our streets better.
Oh, and he's certainly aware of Midnight Ridazz, but didn't seem to have a super-negative view of the group that some in the department have. I wouldn't be surprised if he, or someone else in the task force, starts reading Ridazz, Westside BikeSIDE, Soapbox, Streetsblog....
daymen responding to a
comment by Roadblock
11.29.09 - 8:35 am
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Fair enough... Let's see how it goes....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by daymen
11.29.09 - 9:17 am
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Incidentally I spoke with a seargeant just last week who was very reasonable but tipped off the lapd's hand a bit by saying "we just formed a new task force about you midnight riders" I made sure to clarify the truth which is that midnight ridazz is a web calendar of rides thrown by all sorts of groups. He seemed surprised about this info and said he would inform the group about this info.
What I'm saying is, while I truly believe the LAPD will sincerely work harder to address the concerns of commuter cyclists, don't expect much sympathy from them when it comes to group social rides. I tend to doubt they want to see these things flourish and the evidence of tackling cyclists points in that direction.
Roadblock11.29.09 - 9:34 am
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After Friday night, I think it's a good idea for everyone to bring a video camera, or at least a camera capable of taking video (if it's a cell phone, hopefully it can take video longer than 30 seconds like my crappy phone). If cops are throwing cyclists down, I think video footage is probably our best resource to protect ourselves against this kind of assault.
Team Creanberry responding to a
comment by Roadblock
11.29.09 - 9:52 am
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I definitely agree.
to add to what I said, the sergeant described specifically of an incident in which "the midnight riders" had broken windows at a store. That's when I had to raise an objection to being lumped in with all social ride groups. I don't know when or even if that really happened.... But I will go on the assumption that the LAPD see roving bike groups as a menace and it fuels their angry "tackle cyclists" reactions.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Team Creanberry
11.29.09 - 10:02 am
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how do we reach out to those sorry souls that got clotheslined off their rides?
the guy in NY who got pushed off his bike was served justice and the NYPD officer indicted.
granted the video evidence supported the facts and negated the policemans reports... hrmmm
witnesses we can act as video camera footage right?
sklank11.29.09 - 11:32 am
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It says up there that a police cruiser was attempting to block the mass and people were milling around it..... These will be some of the questions that the authorities concerned will ask. Be prepared to have answers...
Why was the police cruiser blocking the path of critical mass? Did the policeman ask that people stop via the loudspeaker? Did the officer state why people were to pull over?
Roadblock responding to a
comment by sklank
11.29.09 - 11:51 am
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We were riding with Critical Mass when we saw the cruiser blocking the right side of the road (no cars around in either direction), facing the cyclists. Their lights were so bright (and shining directly in our faces) so it was tough to get a good look at the officers. It appeared that the female cop was the aggressor in the incident I witnesed. We saw a cyclist in front of us who attempted to go to the left of the police and got shoved off his bike. We veered to the right and I looked behind me to see what was happening to the guy. He was already being manhandled by the cops and had this look of complete, wtf bewilderment on his face. If he did anything illegal, he sure didn't seem to know what it was.
I never heard anything over a loudspeaker. I never heard the cops yell anything to us. I didn't see any indication that anyone was asked to pull over. With the cops blocking the right side of the road, they gave us no choice but to ride on the wrong side of the road or funnel through a narrow area on the right. Or get tackled. Or get into an accident. I felt that the cyclist assault aside, their behavior (blocking the road and impairing our vision) was very dangerous. A video camera is my new don't-leave-home-for-social-rides-without-it item.
Team Creanberry responding to a
comment by Roadblock
11.29.09 - 12:21 pm
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definitely bring a video camera.... if the cops were not being clear to pull over or to stop that is something that will have to be proven for anything to change regarding their treatment and handling of mass rides. It sounds like from this case they could easily argue that a cop car facing the mass with bright lights against traffic is reason enough to stop... the argument being, that if the same situation occurs in automobile traffic, a crusier facing opposite way of traffic with lights on a single lane street a motorcycle or automobile would have to stop and would not legally be allowed to pass on the wrong side of the street depending on whether it was double yellow striped.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Team Creanberry
11.29.09 - 12:30 pm
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And coming through a couple of minutes after the above initial incident the female officer was still trying to take down riders without warning including me.
toweliesbong responding to a
comment by Team Creanberry
11.29.09 - 12:32 pm
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And since we were in the back with the pack thinned out we were all riding on the right side of the road. I see no reason for the cop to keep trying to pull people down who had no idea what was going on. We were just cruising, it was a quiet street with no peds or traffic, those of us in the back of the pack had no reason to think there would be any problems in that section of downtown.
toweliesbong11.29.09 - 12:35 pm
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I am well over 25, saw the incident (middle of the pack). I witness the male cop arguing with the first couple of kids they pulled down. I assumed that since they were not telling, verbally, anyone to stop, that we should go around the incident, as you would any traffic stop. The female cop started to walk towards me, so I pedaled faster, because I had this fear that she would try to grab me. At the time, it didn't strike me that this would absolutely be an assault, since she had not identified herself as an officer or asked me to stop.
I will call Monday morning and file a complaint to the appointed officer. Please others do so as well.
danceralamode11.29.09 - 2:37 pm
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it's an interesting situation legally.... I'm no lawyer, but it seems like a few issues are at stake:
1. what was the original reason that the cops decided to get into the lane and block traffic (in this case traffic is a mass amount of cyclists)
2. is the police car blocking the street in an obvious way - with lights on facing wrong way- indicate that all traffic is legally bound to stop or is it legal for any of the traffic (in this case human powered traffic that has the ability to thread on through) to continue past the police car blocking the lane.
3. Is the police officer obligated to treat the "mass" as one entity or as individuals? If as individuals then we go to the question of whether vehicles who are able to thread through the police barricade are allowed to do so.... if the answer to the question is the mass is treated as one entity, then how is that entity defined and what is the procedure to stop the entity and ticket or disperse the entity.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by toweliesbong
11.29.09 - 3:16 pm
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I think the real question is, why do they think assaulting cyclists randomly is going to stop the rides? It just makes me lose even more faith in the LAPD (who are they protecting or serving when they do that?), and it makes me more prepared to fight back (by knowing my rights and wanting to witness for others whose rights are violated).
Team Creanberry responding to a
comment by Roadblock
11.29.09 - 6:35 pm
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You must not be to familiar with the LAPD. I would say unless you were injured, incarcerated unjustly, just leave it alone. It will really just bring more negative attention from the LAPD.
buckchin responding to a
comment by Team Creanberry
11.29.09 - 7:06 pm
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The incident was weird. I was near the front and saw the patrol car just turn and blocked the right lanes. There was a sliver around the right side of the car that we could slide through, but the issue is that no orders were given to stop over their loudspeaker. No flashing lights. No sirens. It was as if they just did it off the cuff. There were no cars on the street ( this was Los Angeles street). Most of the riders started going left around the patrol car. Then the officers got out and stood there, somewhat dumbfounded at first. Like they weren't sure what to do or how to handle hundreds of bicycles heading down the street. As I past they lunged out and tried to grab one guy, but he slipped through. It seemed they acted arbitrarily rather than trying to catch someone for an actual violation.
hockeyjockey11.29.09 - 7:18 pm
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not much arguing about it. the way you describe it, it sounds like police abuse...
why are they being abusive? the cops are in a conundrum.... is this mass of cyclists legal or illegal? to them it sure looks illegal. in reality, if no participants of the mass ran lights, it would be completely LEGAL. at that point the mass is not operating as an unauthorized parade it is simply a bunch of people on bicycles traveling in the same direction obeying all laws the same as cars traveling in the same direction heading to a concert or dodger game.
do individuals run the lights on mass rides? yes they do often in an attempt to remain contiguous with the mass and that is where there is wiggle room for the cops to act the way they do.
I would like to see some experimentation with this... on the medical ride, the mass was riding completely legal in that it stopped at lights and did not run lights at the back. it was acceptable to stop at a light and allow those who made it through to continue on ahead. this even made things more fun because some of the groups took alternate routes in an attempt to link up again. it worked perfectly at sunset junction that night.
I think for the future of F.U.N. everyone should get over the idea of riding in giant masses together and allow the mass to split into smaller groups of 20-40 observing all laws in the process and making the F.U.N. part a kind of hide and seek spirit.
lets start inventing more rides based on the hide and seek premise. I'm kind of bored with just riding along a route... I want to make things interesting.
how about a Warriors Ride 2 in downtown? or a Bike City like Alec described a while back. we set up boundaries and we get into groups of 30 or so and ride LETTER OF THE LAW LEGAL about seeking out the other groups within the boundaries. it's a hell of a lot more fun and there is nothing illegal about it. Bring video cameras and if the cops just pull this angry bullshit abuse you video tape it until either the feds crack down on them or the city becomes enlightened and provides cyclists with so much infrastructure that cycling is no longer a novelty night time social activity as is such in progressive and health conscious societies like portland and northern europe.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by hockeyjockey
11.29.09 - 8:16 pm
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interesting... i was in sf at around the same time and sfcm passed thru while i was having beers with friends and they had police escorts along for the ride.
tfunk40811.29.09 - 8:23 pm
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yup SF has come to terms with it's mass ride long ago. the city officials have decided to direct the police to escort the ride and treat it as a parade. it happens once a month so it's not the end of the world for the citizenry to deal with it. LA has not reached that point quite yet but some police do get it.
this is a right to assembly issue but also a traffic issue. SF is so enlightened in many ways including gay rights, freedom of expression, public transportation, green living, progressive support of cyclists etc etc... LA is not in the same realm. yet. might not get there for another generation. be prepared for years of social rides to come!
Roadblock responding to a
comment by tfunk408
11.29.09 - 8:32 pm
reply
+ 2
I was on a ride recently that was fully legal and legit. Even Stop signs. Yeah the group breaks up, but if the organizers are experienced they can keep the ride together. Sure it takes longer to get miles in, but at least cops can't complain nor ignorant drivers.
And this can spur creativity in finding routes with the fewest lights or stop signs.
Foldie responding to a
comment by Roadblock
11.29.09 - 8:36 pm
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SFCM has gone through it's own growing pains and controversy...however as RB posts...they are for the most part a more enlightened community about certain things. As with any city it has its shiny bits and its flaws.
TheJen responding to a
comment by tfunk408
11.29.09 - 8:36 pm
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PS: whats with the little kids that insist on riding and playing chicken with cars in the opposite lane of traffic? is that supposed to be macho or something? like its man against machine? the cars arent going to hit you they like the rest of us just think you are idiots on bicycles trying to start shit.
Roadblock11.29.09 - 8:36 pm
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we have a TON of power to REALLY REALLY make interesting situations happen here... we just need to be creative. that's it... I'm throwing a WARRIORS RIDE 2 in downtown LA. ride legal. Like the great bicycle licensing rides of 2008, CIVIL OBEDIENCE rears it's ugly head once again!
Roadblock11.29.09 - 8:40 pm
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Love it...if you think the cops are confused now...imagine what would happen if they witnessed 300 ridazz obeying traffic laws!
TheJen responding to a
comment by Roadblock
11.29.09 - 8:47 pm
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Roadblock: I am an attorney and would like to help out here, call me; I have helped several ridazz in the past with corking tickets, etc. I have unfortunately not been on a ride for several months, but you and I have spoken on many rides going back a couple years. (310) 890-3947.
yoyoAOyoyo responding to a
comment by Roadblock
11.29.09 - 10:10 pm
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I have court in april for tackeling during the alley cat race downtown that happened in July, thats when I got tackeled by the LAPD as well.
I am not stoked about going.
They tackeled me and threw me to the ground with many people watching. I was making a right turn on a yellow and hours later of sitting on the curb they gave me a running a red light ticket. There was like 7 cops there including the chief, which I got his business card and info to call to court when I have to appear.
Its so BS, they need to chill the fuck out.
Biking is not a crime
Yetiman11.30.09 - 12:23 am
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With the handsome salary and benefits packages the LAPD and most cops in California make, I often wonder why they act as aggressive as they do in the first place.
If they think their job is so thankless and underrated, perhaps they should move to New Orleans, Kansas City, or some other area in the MidWest where tweakers and chop-shops are just as bad and the LEO's out there make about 1/2 as much, or little as the fuckin prince and princesses with badges/guns out here.
If they wanted the job, they should've been prepared for all the mental baggage that came with it.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by Team Creanberry
11.30.09 - 7:13 am
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Good luck Yetiman thats there money making ticket $381.00 dollars got one of those ticket for running a green light tryed to fight it there was nothing I could say to change that judges mind it was already set in his mind I was wrong cop was right .
crossbones responding to a
comment by Yetiman
11.30.09 - 7:46 am
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So who's gonna call he lieutenant about the cops who tackled some of the riders on Critical mass..I'm a witness..
tukang_ojek11.30.09 - 8:50 am
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I was just about to ask if anyone had called yet. Has anyone? I'm going to call the LT for a Streetsblog story on this, but I would prefer if Dawson hears about this from someone that was there first.
daymen11.30.09 - 11:31 am
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yeah that would be the next question.... what are they trying to accomplish? do they consider the mass a non permitted parade and are attempting to disperse it? the tactics are extreme. some cops let it go, some cops escort it, some cops get angry and do silly shit.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Team Creanberry
11.30.09 - 12:14 pm
reply
So I'm putting the finnishing touches on the story on Friday, based entirely on what's been written here. I'll call the Lt. tomorrow for a follow-up, but I'm hoping someone else has 'broken the news' to him before I ring him up.
daymen11.30.09 - 2:21 pm
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Has any body called yet?
GABU11.30.09 - 3:47 pm
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Remember there is a NEW BOSSMAN at the LAPD...maybe he doesnt have a warm/fuzzy for cyclists.
ANYBODY know a lawyer that can be put on retainer to ride on the rides to witness/document events with the LAPD and their weird hatred for cyclists?
MAYBE its that alot of the cops are mid-west transplants. I once had a roommate from Four Beaver Corners, Ohio or some such place, and he FREAKED about my wall rack for my bikes. "Your not supposed to have bicycles in the house. Its just not done. They are dirty...'
KnobbyFace11.30.09 - 8:25 pm
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I called Lt. Dawson today. He was very nice, but redirected my call since apparently he wasn't the appropriate person. I then spoke to Sgt. Johnson, who took my complaint about what happened. I tried to outline the fact that nobody was told to pull over, that the cops created a dangerous situation not only for those who were tackled but also for the cyclists who managed to escape the officers' wrath, that based on the location of the officers it seemed that there was no probable cause for the cyclists to be pulled over, and that the actions of the officers seemed to be based more on frustration with the group rather than catching specific individuals. I also made a point of saying that there were many other witnesses who claim to have seen other cyclists get pulled down - - about 5 or 6 - - but even as the officer asked for more information on this I told him I didn't want to report anything beyond what I saw and heard myself.
He was really pressing me to come downtown and make a complaint in person, which would involve being IDed and an audio recording of my complaint being made. I have a life of my own and couldn't make it down there today, but maybe in a couple more days although I had a hard time asking if there was a way I could call in to find out when I could file the complaint in person. All he would say is, "That's not really how this works. You're SURE you can't make it down here by 7?"
Anyway, whether or not I make it to downtown to complain in person, I will find out if sending in their written complaint form, in addition to having complained over the phone, will just be redundant or if it will help my complaint to not get "lost." And, of course, I hope everyone else who saw this - - because I know a lot of us did - - complains. And I'd really, REALLY love to hear from any of the cyclists who got taken down . . . does anyone know who they were?
Team Creanberry responding to a
comment by GABU
12.1.09 - 6:20 pm
reply
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