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Thread Box:
IRS plane crash
Thread started by tree fitty at 02.19.10 - 10:12 am

finally someone stood up to them. sucks that people got hurt

reply


WHATS REALLY SAD IS THAT THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF CITIZENS GETTING FUCK BY THE GOV, HOWEVER IT DOES SEEM LIKE THE SOFTWARE ENGINEER WENT WAY TO FAR.





eddieboyinla
02.19.10 - 10:17 am

reply


i this guy did go overboard but if you look back on his history the irs fucked him over plenty of times. only shows how far people are willing to go when the gov pushes their citizens buttons.


i hope this doesn't become a trend lol



tree fitty
responding to a comment by eddieboyinla
02.19.10 - 10:28 am

reply


Just another chip of paint off the wall that is the federal government.



bentstrider
responding to a comment by eddieboyinla
02.19.10 - 10:31 am

reply


If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this
have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has
been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months
ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization
that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is
really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with
example after example if I would let it. I find the process of
writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless
 especially
given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light
of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about
that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no
society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this
country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our
dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We
are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this
place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble
principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of
these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the
total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years
of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that
principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse.

While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair
share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great
degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote
on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for
that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I
have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit
unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for
scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash
under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the
force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their
aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call
the American medical system, including the drug and insurance
companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and
stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s
leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their
vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves,
liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless
time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the
“terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long
as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits
rolling in.

And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum
in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system?
Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the
brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly
“holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for
fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law
“requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can
say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s
not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a
totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here?

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the
early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school,
somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I
could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me
to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and
discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the
wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt
Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law
(with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax
lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big
boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our
congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in
the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all
visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it
was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a
much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of
organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest
living. However, this is where I learned that there are two
“interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for
the rest of us
 Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and
enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in
this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my
life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for
the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based
on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how
naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American
public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their
“freedom”
 and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the
face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of
them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the
first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984
after making my way through engineering school and still another five
years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of
launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer.

On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should
digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination
for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a
very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much later during my
early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my
own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My
neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at
that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her
husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central
Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for
his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to
look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the
thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and
corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension
funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to
live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living
on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to
splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure
and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I,
after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was
genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and
commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her
grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier”
eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance
from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the
impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to
take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own
future and myself.

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as
a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer... and two years
later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy
executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought
us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York
Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act
with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section
1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers)
for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report
(http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport)
regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant
parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws
affect technical services workers and their clients, read our
discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by
adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an
individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and
another person, provides services for such other person as an
engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or
other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply
to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

Note:

· "another person" is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.

· "taxpayer" is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.

· "individual", "employee", or "worker" is you.



Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is
saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they
may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d).
Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came
out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty
years later, I still can’t believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at
least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any
senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did,
and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I
spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any
and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to
mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that
our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers
who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration
of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was
spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients.

After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile
exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a
pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to
enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This
immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the
regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of
course, was the intended effect.

Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle.
If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering
and never looked back.

Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A.
depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t
need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern
California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was
economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized
Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one
gave a shit about all of the young families who lost their homes or
street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan
companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall.
Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle
trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once
again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM
bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft
were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that,
‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for
months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive.
Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of
the airlines with billions of our tax dollars 
 as usual they left me
to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies
WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not
quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to
California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out
that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance
and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never
experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what
I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by
the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to
drive down prices and wages
 and this happens because the justice
department is all on the take and doesn’t give a fuck about serving
anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the
last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth
expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that
year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need.
The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t
notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I
attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no
longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend
over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA
world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter
another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage
and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new
business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After
considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to
get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were
in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and
he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting.
Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s
unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross
knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he
pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become
brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend
transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at
least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I
never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever
matter to anyone. The end result is
 well, just look around.

I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great”
depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping
out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything.
Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that
they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal
from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a
joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the
wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes
 isn’t that a
clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as
a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent
presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years
certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally
true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a
body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the
government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to
bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand.
It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their
freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor
immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are
sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body
to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep
looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass,
I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to
pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white
washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it
will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve
that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government
reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people
wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their
mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire
life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the
answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big
chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been
laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all
along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the
same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be
different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big
Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh
and sleep well.



The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each
according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each
according to his greed.



Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010



_iJunes
02.19.10 - 11:25 am

reply


dam, i have to agree with this guy.



eddieboyinla
02.19.10 - 11:40 am

reply


Everything in this letter is accurate. So painfully true that, although I don't agree losing one's life, I can see why he would give up.



July
responding to a comment by _iJunes
02.19.10 - 12:26 pm

reply


things you can't avoid in life...

death and taxes...





adrian
02.19.10 - 12:44 pm

reply


A hero in my eyes.



revolution
02.19.10 - 12:57 pm

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Will we ever wake up?
Must we wait for it to hit close to home before we do anything?
Because I oppose all that is the establishment, will you be quick to call me a crackpot as well?
Wake up people...



July
02.19.10 - 1:01 pm

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really, I still don't see why he would give up... what is it that you see?

Somewhat ironic that his note indicates, he lost 40K and 10 years of his life. I'm not sure what "lost" means in the overall context anymore.

What is the value of "life" to this person? Seems strange, right? Contradictory? I dont know... but the initial thought i'm having is: how do you affirm there is value in life, and in turn take your own life and potential the lives of others?

A flawed, corrupt system does devalue life (i.e. what life could/should be) --True.

It's hard not to be compelled by his letter in general... but for such a supposed "clear thinker", you would imagine he would have known these acts generate the wrong attention... and moreover the events are articulate through the very powers he hates.

In some sense... I initially thought... this will be spun into x,y, and z in no time.

I'm yet to agree that violence is the only answer; primarily because we lack the ability to be violent enough (as in this unfortunate present case).



md2
responding to a comment by July
02.19.10 - 1:05 pm

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Cheers to Joe Stack. The IRS has fucked me too.



Volta
02.19.10 - 1:23 pm

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Obvious FALSE FLAG !

Check out other sources other than main stream media.



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by md2
02.19.10 - 1:28 pm

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??

But mainstream media is whole point/problem.

Those who check other sources generally don't need his convincing. He knows this... so what would be the point of crashing a plane into a building like this...

I think its stupid.



md2
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
02.19.10 - 1:32 pm

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IRS wise, it's much less of a hassle putting up with W2s as opposed to 1099s.



bentstrider
02.19.10 - 1:34 pm

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uhhh did you forget for a second that this happened in TEXAS

im not surprised.


i bet this is all part of W's 9/11 pt 2 his sick little humor.

FBI took down the website shortly after the actual plane crash. I was reading the letter thinking, wait I haven't heard of a plane crashing into a building recently. And then it happened 15 minutes later.



_iJunes
responding to a comment by md2
02.19.10 - 1:45 pm

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This is an attack by our govt on itself.
Thus False Flag

This is a way of categorizing Tax Protesters as dangerous lunatics

In this time of economic turmoil the masses are waking up to the fraud
of Taxes and our monetary system run by the Federal Reserve.

Check out other sources of info regarding what was happening days
before this incident.

For example why was the FBI on alert status in Austin ?



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by md2
02.19.10 - 1:48 pm

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No surprise Texas ?

Texas has a growing movement advocating secession from the U.S.



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by _iJunes
02.19.10 - 2:03 pm

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okay... well... either way, i think its stupid.

My criticism was direct toward the hero remarks and whether crashing a plane in a building makes any sense to promote some points.

There are some people who are obviously okay with the idea of crashing a pane into a building in cases like these... its weird.

We'll wait to see what transpires of this government lead conspiracy.

Dont forget to pay your taxes... only a couple months left




md2
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
02.19.10 - 2:14 pm

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Fuck that guy.

Waaaaah, I don't like paying taxes, so I'm going to set my house on fire and then get in my plane and fly it into a building. Waaaaaaaaah.

If you're fortunate enough to be able to afford a home AND a private plane, you need to STFU about having to share some of your income with the rest of society.

Yes, the government does spend its money on stupid stuff occasionally, and yes, we do have a convoluted tax code, but we've got mechanisms in place to fix that.

We're a democracy, if you don't like what the government's doing, get involved or at least vote every so often.

But don't fly planes into buildings.

/rant

- Cue lots of cynical comments about puppet masters and both parties being the same.



JB
02.19.10 - 2:24 pm

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eh, dude owned an airplane. he wasn't broke thats for sure. his note alludes to something that he did in his younger years to try to avoid paying taxes... it's not completely clear what he was trying to do but 40,000 in taxes means he was making some decent money. what I do 100% agree with him on is that rich people have abused their power to avoid taxes and have the audacity to force a taxpayer bailout when their schemes fail. I don't think the banks or wall street should have gotten a bailout. not one cent. I dont care if they are "too big to fail" they should collapse and the bankers should suffer as a result of their bullshit. this guy however was no hero. he just went nuts over a tax bill.

if this was a "false flag" it was the tea baggers who staged it.



Roadblock
02.19.10 - 2:24 pm

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On all accounts, it appears that Piper Cub was topped off to cause that sort of damage.

If he was that pissed off with the way things were going, he should've just flew the coop like the rest of them tend to do.

Instead, he decides to use a perfectly good aircraft to cause some moderate cosmetic damage to a government building.



bentstrider
02.19.10 - 3:00 pm

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Sounds like my punk rocker friend from highschool... lots a specific problems but not a single specific example or solution. Like a Bad Religion song or somethin.



BICYKILLER
02.19.10 - 3:24 pm

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hah...

But he had a specific solution: violence.

When you can't get through to people... just kill them.





md2
responding to a comment by BICYKILLER
02.19.10 - 3:35 pm

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Oh, my mistake. I stand corrected. Violence... that's COMPLETELY in line with his ideals.



BICYKILLER
responding to a comment by md2
02.19.10 - 4:04 pm

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I agree with many of the things he says but the rant and the action doesn't add up.

The final straw was that he got audited for not reporting his wife's 12K piano lesson income? C'mon!
A) After having a history of trouble with the IRS how come you "forgot" to report your wife's income?
B) The tax on 12K would not be that bad, even with penalties after he got caught.

Why did he burn his own house?
That leaves his wife and daughter homeless and makes him officially an asshole.

Kinda like the Unabomber, you can be an intelligent, educated person and your rants against the establishment may even make sense but when you start killing people you got a loose screw somewhere.



marino
02.19.10 - 4:16 pm

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+1000000 i aree FUK THAT GUY..he had no regards for other people life..so FUK him! flying a plane into a building just showed how weak he was.



Huey555
responding to a comment by JB
02.19.10 - 5:03 pm

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that fucker still had lots of money left.



Huey555
02.19.10 - 5:06 pm

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Yeah yeah, all tax protesters are wonderful human beings, and no true Scotsman, cognitive dissonance or whatever...

But are you really so bound by ideology that for any given event, you have to invent some needlessly complex story that reinforces your world view? Sometimes a murderous asshole is just a murderous asshole. If he also happens to be a "tax protester," nobody cares.

He was just another paranoid jerk who fell on hard times, got screwed over by the system, and snapped. The only people who give a damn about his manifesto are the people who kind of agree with him.

If Big Brother was trying to instigate an upwelling of public resentment against teabaggers, you'd think that he could come up with something a little more dramatic than just crashing a single engine plane into some office building.



nathansnider
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
02.19.10 - 9:51 pm

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Maybe this could be to instigate legislation regarding Internet registration ?
As in having to have a licence to post or blog on line.
Under the guise of stopping domestic terrorist beforehand.

Why is anyone who is against the government's agenda classified as a Teabagger ?
Seems pretty ignorant.



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by nathansnider
02.19.10 - 10:09 pm

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lol.... half of me thinks you are serious about this license to blog conspiracy?!




Roadblock
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
02.19.10 - 10:41 pm

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great summary. totally right about leaving the wife and daughter homeless, what an asshole.

fuckin teabaggers... all these big money interests and corps have teabaggers shooting themselves in the foot with all this anti-tax sentiment. if everyone paid their fair share in taxes, meaning no elaborate loopholes and teams of tax lawyers filibustering the irs on behalf of corps and money interests.... we would be paying a flat tax of 20-30% AND have free education, cradle to grave healthcare and probably free food and water too...




Roadblock
responding to a comment by marino
02.19.10 - 10:51 pm

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Not so far fetched.
Control of the Internet and alternative media is definitely on the plate of the current administration.



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by Roadblock
02.19.10 - 10:58 pm

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Income tax is unconstitutional.
But wait , communist don't believe in the constitution.



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by Roadblock
02.19.10 - 11:03 pm

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aight then so what's the final goal? what are "they" trying to accomplish with said control? lets say everything you are saying is true. whats the agenda once they achieve world domination? they want to..... make all the money? turn people into slaves? what are they going for here...



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
02.19.10 - 11:06 pm

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yeah I've heard that income tax is unconstitutional.. but what do you have to say about the level of services that people get for their contributions in say, France? or The Netherlands? Sweden? Finland? have you ever paid dues for a club membership? how about the $5 a person that got us porta potties at the salton sea? was that like a micro version of world domination?



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
02.19.10 - 11:09 pm

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what about when people put 5 on a 18 pack of tecate.... is that like nano-world-domination?



Roadblock
02.19.10 - 11:10 pm

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Population reduction of the masses.
The elites believe they can use life extension technology but resources
can't be shared.
The Georgia guide stones have the agenda etched in them.
Regardless of what you personally believe, the ones in control worship Satan,
and it is in there religion to sacrifice people to gain more power.



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by Roadblock
02.19.10 - 11:18 pm

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Satan is a christian concept... so therefore you are saying the ones in control are christians?



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
02.19.10 - 11:20 pm

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but what about common services like healthcare police and fire and a judicial system who is going to pay for all that?



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
02.19.10 - 11:21 pm

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Ask anyone who has lived in a communist country what they think of Communism.

Also the level of services are not what you think.
Often service is on a selective basis or your put on a waiting list if your condition
is deemed non life threatening.

The problem here is insurance companies and lawyers who drive cost up.
Not to mention the politically incorrect subject of the cost illegal aliens who receive free services.



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by Roadblock
02.19.10 - 11:27 pm

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I would call that voluntary cost sharing, unlike some provisions of the healthcare bill that state YOU MUST have some form of coverage or face fines and lock-up time.



bentstrider
responding to a comment by Roadblock
02.19.10 - 11:37 pm

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There are all types of taxes we pay other than income tax that we pay.
For example taxes added to gasoline are to be used for highway/roadway cost.

Income tax is a tax on your labor.
The money is used to pay interest to the Federal Reserve which loans money
to the Federal Government.

The average worker works 4 months out of the year to pay there income tax.

If there was no income tax that would truly stimulate the economy.
What would you do with a third more of your income to spend ?



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by Roadblock
02.19.10 - 11:37 pm

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Christian Concept ?
Strange the fundamentalist Muslims call the USA Satan ?

Wonder if the Satanist consider themselves Christians ?



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by Roadblock
02.19.10 - 11:42 pm

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Agreed. The non-essential portions of the government should go into a slumber while taxrates are reduced and allocated to keep the essentials up and running. This will give everyone else time to get their shit together, get some juice flowing back into the commercial machine and prevent breadlines from popping up in the near future. While they're at it, reduce the number of salaried personnel on LE and emergency rolls and utilize more reserves and volunteers. If private corps issue paycuts and work hour reduction to stay afloat, publicly funded entities should do the same. Use what's needed, leave the rest behind.



bentstrider
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
02.19.10 - 11:51 pm

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why don't we just take some of the bailout money back from the banks and use it to buy healthcare for every poor and middle class family? we don't have to be as socialist as europe, but right now, we're selling off all of the responsibilities of government to the private sector and they're taking the money and running.

dont get me wrong, a deregulated market is a great way to promote innovations--you know, like collateralized debt obligations. democracy means deciding what kind of civil society you want. we don't vote for the ceo of bank of america. maybe we should.



tortuga_veloce
02.20.10 - 12:22 am

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for a business voting in the same way as a country would take too much time, and it's a lot easier to go to another company as an employee as it is to go to another country as a citizen



braydon
responding to a comment by tortuga_veloce
02.20.10 - 12:35 am

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or as a customer



braydon
02.20.10 - 12:48 am

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Difference between having to pay and choosing to pay.

You have to pay taxes or else....

You don't have to pitch in for Tecate, but I think those who don't are boring and should be locked up on principle.


This is (part of) the problem: look how a simple MR thread turned in face of his actions -- debate 1: was he right to crash his plane, burn his house, etc? Debate 2: was he right about his reasons for being upset at the IRS?

Because people don't know how to answer or what even is the proper way o analyze the taxation issue, Joe Stack's message of revolt is lost in the very confusion that got him so worked up.

Nobody listened to his cries of only being able to afford a house the size to fit a piano, but people are torn about whether taxation is good or bad, just or unjust, necessary or unnecessary. Before people line up to revolt, they obviously need to know where they stand, and hopefully their basis is more than: I hate paying taxes.



md2
responding to a comment by Roadblock
02.20.10 - 8:24 am

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I don't have a problem with taxes.
I do have a problem with the disproportionate amount of influence that corporations have over how that money is spent.

You are full of crap if you think committing suicide is "heroic".
There is a million other ways to make a statement about the ills of the IRS, problems with our culture, and our system of government, but to make an impact they all involve a lot more hard work, planning, discipline, dedication, motivation, and courage... the courage to stick around and keep working when you plans fail.

This guy decided to flame out ... and he wont be around to see this cowardly effort float in to the ether as this story moves on out of the news cycle. This is was 5 minute plan, not a 5 year plan

This guy was another self important jackass that thought his live was so fucking hard they only way to get his point across was to flame out.

Compare him to somebody like Malcom X who was orphaned by the state, incarcerated by the state, taught himself to read and write in jail by candlelight. Worked hard, was able to get ideas through the mass media even though it was extremely biased against him. He kept learning and changing, and challenging himself until the day he died.

Thats a lot more heroic to me than some self important asshole who writes a manifesto, and flames out in a copy cat crime, killing innocent office drones, putting his family out of a home, and destroying a bunch of property. The only good thing to come out this is one less self-righteous jagoff in the the world.





trickmilla
02.20.10 - 8:53 am

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trickmilla
02.20.10 - 8:59 am

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he could have been more creative with the killing but at least he did SOMETHING. plus, CIA/IRS agents aren't really people anyways. god makes extra puppies every time one is murdered. this is how the universe works. puppies.
















asparagus
02.20.10 - 9:48 am

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the most productive slaves are those who don't know they are slaves.



asparagus
responding to a comment by trickmilla
02.20.10 - 9:51 am

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well, get back to work then.

If god makes puppies, where do asparagus fall on food chain?

"at least he did something"

isn't that one of the questions up for debate? What did he actually do? Did he really stick it to the man? Did he ignite a revolution? Make a fool of himself? Make matters worse?

What did he DO?

...don't worry we have time...



md2
responding to a comment by asparagus
02.20.10 - 10:26 am

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i don't know anything about this man. the news says he was pissed and flew a plane into a building. people are talking about it. i bet the reptilians are involved in this somehow.
















asparagus
responding to a comment by md2
02.20.10 - 11:08 am

reply


This is what Joe Stack died for:

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.


Joe Stack was right. I will now set fire to my Kestrel RT-800 Carbon Road Bike in protest.



TAR
02.20.10 - 11:21 am

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congrats!





coldcut
02.21.10 - 7:34 pm

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he turned his words into actions. fucking awesome.



coldcut
responding to a comment by md2
02.21.10 - 7:35 pm

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congrats for what???? plz explain. he didnt accomplish shit by crashing into a building..WAAAAHHH...hes weak...he forgot to look at the brighter things in life, the more positive things inlife example his daughter,his will to live strong to the fullest..this fool was just mad cus he got fuked over and over by our government ,He let them win..by them i mean whoever the fuk he blamed.bastard was greedy and selfish thats what i think...are we making an irs ride or what?



Huey555
responding to a comment by coldcut
02.21.10 - 7:55 pm

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lol



Huey555
responding to a comment by asparagus
02.21.10 - 7:57 pm

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the irs will rebuild the building in no time and they will be hiring some new employees soon.i men i feel for the innocent,but he didnt so shit.



Huey555
02.21.10 - 8:01 pm

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*mean



Huey555
02.21.10 - 8:03 pm

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he accomplished setting a building on fire



tree fitty
02.21.10 - 8:50 pm

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how many can say they have nearly destroyed a building in their lifetime? case and point lol



tree fitty
02.21.10 - 8:51 pm

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and?



Huey555
responding to a comment by tree fitty
02.22.10 - 12:13 am

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another example of someone who is impressed, but can't seem to explain why.

"he turned his words into actions."

Not sure what you mean exactly, but Im assuming you think he "expressed" some critical thoughts about the IRS and in turn went beyond merely vocalizing his complaints, and decided to CRASH A PLANE INTO THE IRS BUILDING.

Duh!! Why is that fucking awesome? How old are you anyway? Have you even had to deal with the IRS, yet? How much of your money has gov received?

It would be nice to here some local kids thoughts on why you praise these actions (outside of -- cause he did what he did). we all know he had a complaint and took the stupid route. Explain why route stupid is fucking awesome.

In my opinion younger kids get excited about catastrophes and such, but I think its really a lack of imagination and education, which doesn't let them look beyond the excitement.

True revolutions/ revolutionaries, which/who resorted to violence had a plan, a following, usually some guiding principle to hopefully ensure that their violent actions would not be in vain. Not all succeed, but this guy is far from heroic status... he wasn't a leader, but grump as far as the story is told.



md2
responding to a comment by coldcut
02.22.10 - 7:45 am

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coldcut
responding to a comment by md2
02.23.10 - 8:01 pm

reply

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