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this is re: the young kids that race in front of the larger rides and try to hijack them. It's done on every RWNN and 2nd Friday rides. It's getting to be a big problem as there are more and more of the kids.
Someone wrote this to me recently and it hits the nail right on the head:
"Yeah - bailed early and rode back with a group. I'm tired of a bunch of people that don't know how to ride, don't know how to ride in a group, and are riding for all the wrong reasons. Most of them will never give anything positive to the scene. History repeating.
I'm kinda feeling done with the big rides and I'm really only a little sad - it's been coming for a while now. At least I knew it when it was good.
My impression is that these young kids don't read the forum or participate in any meaningful dialog, yet these are the ones we need to reach - trying to communicate with these guys seems like hitting a brick wall. They are in their own world, but unfortunately they're taking advantage of our world: fucking up the rides that guys like you put on."
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We need to do something. At last month's RWNN, I stopped the ride and Louis yelled at them to "stay the fuck back or this ride is over." It worked for a while.
Let me know your thoughts. I don't ask much of you guys so try to keep this to solutions only. thanks.
how about showing them how to start their own "race" ride since they obviously don't want to ride the pace of the existing rides? I started riding on a large group ride and didn't know anything about which rides were which. I saw some kids race ahead and i followed. Fuzzbeast yelled "this isn't a fucking hustle" "slow the fuck down" Since i was new i didn't want to show disrespect so asked where the fast rides are. He told me Wolfpack and i've been hooked ever since. That is the only ride i do now. So maybe these kids don't know about faster rides or they can't keep up with wolfpack so they should start a med. paced ride.
It's almost like the littering thing. Probably some of the same kids, too. I always tell them to pick up their stuff, and they look at me like I'm speaking Swahili. So I tell 'em if they don't pick it up, I'm gonna pick it up & do it for them/carry it to the next stop...Alotta times that clicks something & they go "Oh no no no, wait, I'll do it, no..." I think it's that same semi-embarassment tactic that seems to work, but....I guess not for that long? What would be the strategy to get it to work for longer? A double-attack of more talking up race-type rides (for the race-types) and just trying to make it "cooler" to behave? I mean, who wants to act parental, but on the other hand...I wanna keep having a good time on these rides & that person writing was not off-base. They do need to cool it, and they are not exactly participatory in the community as a whole.
It always works for a little bit. You put the effort into the ride to get it there.
RWNN is a great ride, Brad. One of the last cohesive rides right now.
People who put in the effort to make things work smoothly for rides eventually get burnt out when things start to fall apart later on. I don't blame you at all.
What Tyler is saying is that it is just part of the way it goes. Hopefully there will continue to be people who step up and put in the effort to keep the standards up for big group rides. Eventually, big group rides get out of hand. It's a constant cycle of new kids coming in and having to re-learn everything that we had to learn about group rides, etc, etc.
Props to you for RWNN and I hope you still find the inspiration and support to keep it going.
I still enjoy big group rides. Some work out better than others because the organizers have some experience and energy to keep things together.
I don't mind having to call people out for not staying with the group or swerving and other stuff. I know that they will hear what people say and choose to learn from it. Leading works best through example, but sometimes you just have to call people out and sometimes even public shaming is required for some behavior. Some new groups are easier to work with than others.
Midnight Ridazz is an experiment in social interaction and having fun. Keep coming back to having fun, being inclusive, and looking out for each other.
I honestly thing the the solution to people who ride out front is very simple:
Let them go.
I often see people who are trying to control a ride chase after the people riding off the front. So they can get next to them and tell them to slow down.
Meanwhile, people behind are following the pace of the "leader" who is racing ahead.
If ride leaders made more stops at red lights and generally slowed down the ride at any given chance, allowing the front riders to ride off in the distance, people would get the idea pretty quickly.
The motto is "No Ridaa Left Behind"
Forget the the people who ride off the front. they'll figure it out.
Lately I've noticed big rides breaking up more.
If the ride can;t get through after 1 light cycle, many people are choosing to break up the ride. I like this a lot better. Rides that get broken up into smaller groups are much less hassle. People can pace up with Ridazz on similar bikes or with a similar level of fitness.
My only problem up here now is getting people to ride in the street, or at least beyond their cul-de-sac.
As for these throttle-punchers, several fat burritos offered to each ought to choke up their exhaust systems for a bit, slow their roll involuntarily!!!!
Richie once handed out tall flags for the ride leaders on a day-time Crank Mob and made an announcement at the beginning of the ride that the only people leading the ride, were those with the flags. It worked pretty well in my opinion.
Also, I remember Stillline yelling at people on a Crank Mob "If you dont know where the ride is going, stay the f**k back!!!" Or personally riding up to them and asking "are you the ride leader? ...STAY BEHIND US, THEN!" They listened.
I also agree with just letting them go ahead into the wilderness.
tyler is so negative at times. good guy, just negative.
Patrick, the problem with letting them go is that the people behind go with them and then why make up a route at all? It did work when the ride was stopped and Louis yelled at them. maybe we'll do that again....more.
what works for me when i feel like or need to ride hard and fast is ; riding alone or with 1 or 2 other people that can keep up or set a fast pace. I have done wolfpack a few times and loved it , but i work during the week in the mornings. So if any fast young kids are reading .... get your friends together and haul ass.... or do it alone. try it ... you might like it.
I've actually thought about doing a midcity mash, I'm just way to new on organizing a ride, and have been working way to much lately to put it together :'(... Hopefully here in the near future it will come about :), that and im just not to sure how many kids in midcity/culver are willing to do a 20-30 mile mash.
here's a suggestion, reach out to them in a respectful way, not as an authority figure. Introduce your self to them and get to know them by NAME.
to prove how being respectful works, on the last RWNN at the end some kid started tagging the street sign. he got spotted and confronted with yelling and grabbing, so he got defensive escalating the situation.
so i approached him and in a calm manner told him it wasn't worth it to be tagging when already spotted. he turned around looked at me and walked away leaving his spot half finished. no public shamming, cops or stoning was needed.
"what about posting the route or giving out directions/map? if people know where they're going they might be able to spot wrong turns."
I did that a few times and the ride turned into a hustle cuz everyone knew where to go. I can only speak for RWNN....i try to keep it at a chill pace....meaning slow enough that people can look around them, enjoy the different neighborhoods, look at the cool looking houses, smile and catch eye contact with people on their porches hootin' for us...that's the idea behind the ride.
Keeping people on the right side of the road is another story..i won't even try to fix that problem. it's unfixable in my opinion.
just keep doing what youve been doing on the last few rwnns ive been on
you (barleye) keep riding at your own pace and whoever stays behind you will know where to turn and where the stops are. fuck everyone else.
1. LOOP AROUND - Roadblock once encouraged an idea of those who want to go fast - Just continue looping around to the back of the group and make your way to the front again. That should give you a work out.
2. CORKING - Also, some people just want a job. Encourage people who want to cork at needed intersections. But, make sure they know to be chill with impatient drivers rather than yelling right back at them.
3. BACK PERSON - I like how in The Passage.. rides, Sean and Nathan take turns having one person being the very front of the group and the other being the very last.
4. REGROUPING - We all hate to stop at red lights, however most the time if the front can time a light to stop before it changes, then it allows people to regroup. Of course the middle of a group will get split up by changing lights and you can't always safely cork every intersection. The ride leader needs some eyes in the back of his/her head so they know when to slow down or even speed up. Perhaps assign a middle person to be vocal with the front person about situations?
5. COMMUNICATE - People should be reminded that those who ride free wheel should avoid riding directly behind people who ride fixed.
People should be reminded to get to the right if you have to slow down.
Also call out. "on your left", when you are passing. It's not a big deal to communicate, just open yer mouf!
I know, nobody likes to hear these things over and over... Tough SHIT. Some people don't want to be told what to do at all. But, regardless, the shit has to be repeated over and over. There's nothing you can do about it - Just face the fact that you have to constantly be teaching people or at least be encouraging people to spread the word.
You just gotta talk to each other. Don't be so goddamn reserved. Unless you are just too fucking cool for all of us that is.
Russell gets all pissed because people hang around in parking lots rather than ride. However, he never voices this out loud and sits in the corner all grumpy and that doesn't help the situation at all. People can communicate with each other without feeling like they are being talked down to. It can be done. SRSLY
Actually the RWNN ride does a very good job handling those who ride ahead. Most people know that they have to follow Bradley and the music trailer. The 50 kids who run ahead and miss the route turn end up doing U-Turns to catch up with the ride.
My problem with the last RWNN ride was that it was 95% dudes. That's too much testosterone for me. Tell the lil kids to bring their sisters next time.
sorry if i gave the impression i was stopping the ride....that ain't happening any time soon.
1 solution is to have turns at intersections with no light signals....that way they pass the intersection and we make the turn.
ONLY HAND SIGNALS.
re: the tagger, mike kwan confronted the kid and i think put his hands over where the kid was tagging then started yelling "tagger..tagger" if my memory serves correctly....
and I had no intention of making this a RWNN thread. It just so happens that the RWNN and 2nd Friday rides is where this happens.
I think for a lot of the frontend stragglers it's an honest mistake. If we make it clear at the beginning who's leading the ride, and make it easy to identify the leader(s) with flags or loud music, it's all the due diligence that's necessary to keep the group together. As long as that's done, anyone who's getting too far ahead is at least not doing so out of confusion about who's really the leader.
it's NOT an honest mistake. MANY MANY times these kids, primarily under 18, try to hijack and then laugh with each other when the ride didn't make their turns with them.
barleye responding to a comment by mullingitover
01.19.10 - 4:02 pm
barleye, you should put a big flag on the back of your bike and just make it very clear at the beginning of the ride that you and whoever has the music trailer are the leaders, and if they go ahead of you, you will probably get lost. this works well when your routes have lots of turns in residential areas because they will race ahead and you'll keep signaling turns and they'll have to race back to catch up. eventually they'll get sick of it and either stay behind you or leave. not a flaw-proof solution though
Your preaching to the choir brotha! This is one of the main reasons I don't do LACM anymore, and look forward to RWNN every month. You run the best ride going, and the time and effort you put into it is appreciated, and it makes the difference.
The only suggestion I can make is talk to these kids before the ride. Let them know on THIS ride EVERYONE stays behind the trailer. Let them know they will enjoy the ride more and not look like a total newb. If they want to ride up front have them cork. Maybe have a few "veteran" ridazz up front keeping EVERYONE behind the music.
Making additional turns is a good suggestion but they will u-turn it, just to do the same thing again, and why should you amend the ride just for those chicken heads. Reguarding Taggers, it needs to called out by everyone, and never tolerated!
Agreed that the kids who are actively hijacking are not making an honest mistake. However, for them to hijack the ride successfully they have to have people follow them out of confusion about where the ride is going. Make it clear who's leading and the ride can't get jacked.
Yeah, rides are always nice when there's and even amount of both sexes on them.
Let the speed freaks hustle on down to the sausage-fest in bumfuckshire!!!
It's not fair to say "we were young / new ridazz once, too" because the vast majority of people on these rides never tried to hijack, or tag, or litter, or ride on the wrong side of the street or anything. These are just bad kids, pure and simple.
If people are there for the ride, they will respect and follow the music rig and/or the leader flag (if there is one). If people are not there for the ride (eg. if people are there expressly to hijack or race or cause trouble), are those the people you want on the ride anyway? I don't.
In other words, I'd rather go on a ride with 150 good people, than one with 150 good people and 50 douchebags. I can't imagine any of you would disagree with me on that, even if it means rides that are smaller.
I have to give a big +1 to the flag idea. If there is a flag or other clear, visible marker on the ride leader, no one can possibly get confused about where the ride is going. Think about it... if the group splits in two, and the ride leader flag goes right while some other guys are going straight, who will I follow? Again, if I don't care enough to keep half an eye on the leader flag, am I the kind of rider you want on your ride?
I also really like the idea of a sweep rider at the back of the pack who knows the route and can help stragglers / flat fixers / chain droppers to re-find the ride. I actually enjoy riding sweep because it lets me ride at the chillest pace and it's nice to know for certain that people aren't getting left behind. I have gotten a flat and been dropped by a party ride before. I was quick enough to catch back up (...barely), but not everyone is.
So to summarize:
- No Rida Left Behind = great policy
- No Rida Allowed to Race Ahead = why? screw 'em
- Sweep Rider = stragglers and breakdowns will be grateful
- Flags for leaders = no confusion as to who is leading or where
You'll still get 100+ riders to come out... only with fewer unruly kids.
PS. This means changing the starting point..
PSS I have an idea. You can plant tacks and other tire puncturing items on the road just after a certain correct turn and let all those mofos who try to hijack it fall victim to said tacks and shit and then try to ride with flats.
i can understand wanting to get ahead of the music if you find yourself on a westside ride and your eardrums are inundated with that awful OONST OONST OONST garbage that they are all fond of.
and i'm not putting a fucking flag on my bike. maybe for other rides you guys can do it but i'm not. it's pretty simple....STAY BEHIND THE MUSIC. that's my flag.
helmet only had 1 good record but that's for another thread altogether.
when you went on bike rides with your friends when you were in elementary school - was there music? NO. was there spoke cards? NO. did you have just as much fun as you do on midnight ridazz rides? YES.
Agreed.
Without some good music, it's just a typical stroll downtown.
As far as the techno coming from the Westside, it's time to drop it.
CRANK Mob went into stasis four months ago, nothing but dead air coming out of there anymore.
I would have to say people wearing headphones on large rides drives me nuts .. Whats the point? If you want to do it ride by yourself ... I always find myself saying something to the person next to me only for them stare blank in front of them and notice them wearing earbuds.... I think its way unsafe .. You cant hear stop, slowing, right , left, etc ... its all bad news ..
you know whats really funny
none of the none of the DUMB ASS 12 year olds
kids were talking about will never read this thread SO....
lets all go have dinner with are loved one the forums will sill be here
TOMORROW
WANNA MAKE THE RIDES BETTER?
HOW ABOUT SOME MORE POON?
IT'S LIKE A SAUSAGE FEST SOME TIMES
AND WHEN I SAY POON, I MEAN NICE, CLEAN POON
NONE OF THAT BEAT DOWN, FISHY SHIT LIKE YOU USED TO SEE AT C.R.A.N.K.M.O.B...
i've done this before, i didn't know, pure ignorance, i just hadn't been on many group rides at all
lol, i thought i was a bad ass getting way ahead on my mountain bike, right up there with some road bike and fixie youngsters, quite the opposite is what i was i guess haha =)
i am guessing it's just lack of knowing for a lot of the folks that do it, after a time or two of getting separated i learned, maybe it will take them a couple times too
hmm, what if the music trailer had a sign? maybe it does already and i just never noticed...
it's just dangerous to ride around and not being able to hear anything around you
i got these bad ass and powerful tiny little battery powered speakers i'll hook up in my bag when i ride sometimes, you can daisy chain them together too to make it much louder ;)
natefrogg responding to a comment by OsnapsonJC
01.19.10 - 7:12 pm
I agree that the solution is just to let them go if they are really becoming a problem. I have to be honest though that I am often guilty of riding in such a manner, but it's not to try to hijack the group. I just don't like riding around a bunch of squirrely, drunk, and/or high people. I've seen way too many crashes happen on these rides and I don't want to be a part of one. If the people around me are getting too stupid, I will hit the gas and go to the front. I think I can call separate myself from these kids because I don't lose the group and will double back if I have to so I can get back in. I'm sorry, I also just like riding fast! Some of us riders aren't happy with riding 10-15mph all night on any ride. I ride fast by myself, I ride fast in races, I ride fast pretty much any time I'm on a bike. Cruising makes my legs itchy. One solution I have found for this is to simply ride a slower bike. I can get my speed jollies without burning everyone. Maybe you can suggest that those speed demons come to the ride on a beach cruiser instead of a road bike.
some kind of basic "big group ride handbook", it can be handed out, something easy to print on a sheet of letter sized paper that can be folded into 1/4 size if that makes any sense...would it just result in increased litter?
in the 90s when i was a rave kiddo i remember being handed one about raves and unspoken rules, actually as an 18 year old full of energy and not much direction it helped me handle myself and keep it together quite a bit
Barleye, this is the way I would handle the kids who like to ride too fast or attempt to highjack the direction of the ride...
Incorporate them into the running of the ride itself. Give them a responsibility and a position. Riding fast and attempting to highjack comes from ego... satisfy that drive by giving them a "position" and a fun, seemingly important task to do and many of these kids will fall right into place.
Example. Identify the ones speeding at the front. Go up to them, compliment them on their riding strength and ask them if they would help you control and organize the ride. Give them a task, for example, to ride fast to the front of the group and cork. Then, after the whole ride passes by the intersection safely, tell them they HAVE TO ride FAST to the front of the pack again to repeat the process. Let them know how important the job is and how you need their riding skill to help the less experienced riders.
RWNN is not Crit Mass. As the ride leader, you either have to use your skills to control and manipulate the group, or let the thing behave organically, which it doesn't sound like you want.
hmmm, I think that the older people should realize that these kids feel powerful within the larger group rides.... they feel that drivers are somewhat defenseless and can not and will not do anything to them... the group rides provides protection as we blow by red lights and cork streets... these kids do not understand that corking is performed in order to keep large rides safe.... what is attracting them is the law breaking portion of the rides... they get to drink, they get to ride through red lights and on the wrong side of the road, and some of them get an opportunity to tag and hide in a large group.... a
there have been many good suggestions on this ride.... announcing who is the route leader for the night would help, Josef that puts on spoke(n) art does this and since he has a pretty unique bicycle it is easy to know he is the leader, you do not need to put a flag on your bike.... a combination of a few more short stops to regroup and letting the riders up front get a lost will accomplish certain things. Those riders will get bored and leave and may not come back if they know it is that type of ride... as the leader you are going to have to react on the spot and make those determinations of whether to make a quick stop or keep going....
I do not know barleye personally or have ever met him in person, however, the RWNN has been one of the best rides.... this is one of the few rides i encourage new riders to participate .. keep it up....
gee whiz. I figured the rwnn was just like all the other rides lately. after reading this thread it seems that maybe this ride might be worth going into downtown for a nite ride again.
I think you have the stealing and hi jacking under control. No liquor store stops= no stealing. And the frequent turns prevents hi jackers. I mean, has the ride ever been successfully hi jacked and broken up? Not that I've seen. Now what are we going to do about people on singe speed bikes with no brakes?
i think its unfair for leaders to have to put even more extra work to identify themselves (which might single them out to anyone who has an issue with the ride itself).
I'm with RBI, it has been the same problems over and over again.... I think there are aspect of the rides that CANNOT be fixed (but glad to be wrong).
We're talking about kids who were in many ways just like us as teens. You couldnt tell us shit... All I mean by that is that kids will grow up one day, and figure it out... and have to deal with the new kids... and so and on
Honestly, and maybe Im wrong, but if you could solve some of these rehashed problems that occur on rides.... well, you would probably win the Nobel Peace Prize, because it stems from something more than not knowing who is leading the ride. And the same attitudes and disregard shown toward rides, is shown in other aspect in society....
I think Dingo had it right when he told me (paraphrasing): these kids get to be in a large group, drink, and fuck around; we didnt have this as a kid. Now they get to tell Mom and Dad "im going on a bike ride". Parents are like "wow, great, I love Lance Armstrong". They have a perfect cover.
How do we get kids to give a fuck??? Let alone adults...
"I got that "I don't give a fuck" in me; it's stuck in me"
--Havoc (Mobb Deep)
md2 responding to a comment by barleye
01.19.10 - 8:56 pm
You've never even been on this ride!!! You should come, nothing but early 90's hip hop and philosophical debates. You never know barleye might just pull off this Nobel Peace Prize thing.
RWNN is most definitly the best ride around right now.
It's not surprising that it would attrack this much attention from
the young kids. And where there's lots of young stupid kids, there will always be some
doing somthing stupid.
crowd control.
barleye, You need to exp[and your group of collaborators. Have all the corkers be YOUR ppl. Have a bigger mass of riders you know and trust @ the front of the ride(with you), No matter how many kids get ahead of you and your music trailer, If you and your group hold a line then the rest of the ride(the ppl behind) will know to follow you and your group and not these kids that are obviously going too fast and missed the turn. -_-
So what if they have to bust a u-turn, let'em
serves 'em right.
I mean, how hard came it possibly be for ppl to stay behind the music?
Anyone ahead of the music....fuck them.
You can have like a front line:.
Have your people right next to the music trailer kind of like the center line in football:.
This will have to force the "faster riders" to stay behind you guys:.
I still say gathering everyone before the ride takes off would be a nice idea:.
Let them know whos leading and to stay behind the music trailer
Other people may not get on the forums and read this but they must get the info from someone who reads the forums so how about you tell your friends about the others rules as well; not just the meet time & ride out:.
john.13 responding to a comment by Busride420
01.19.10 - 10:26 pm
It's all in how you frame it.....frame it with a reward that speaks to peoples own self centered-ness. put the statement in people's own first person. in other words you are not telling people what to do you are describing what WE ALL are currently doing.
what sounds more effective?
Yelling "Stay the fuck back!" or "slowing slowing!" the latter statement implies matter of factly that the ride is slowing with no mention or importance on who decided that it should slow. the former is a individual command to others that can get rejected or seen as authority to rebel against.
if it's a red its "stopping!" etc.
"Get over to the right!" or "Car back!"
As ride leader, you have to BE the front. That means if people get ahead of you... who cares! as long as YOU the ride leader give out directs 1/2 BLOCK in advance loud and clear then let the front go the wrong way if too many people get out ahead. If the next directs are a right turn at a RED then your directions should be "SLOWWING SLOWING STOPPING" you get to the point where it looks safe to enter the next street without causing cars to slam on the brakes then the next direx are "RIGHT TURN RIGHT TURN" if a bunch of fast riders continue straight LET THEM. dont let it bother you just continue being clear and loud about the slowing then the right turn.
soon enough these little kids that cant keep behind the ride leader learn that they will get lost if they dont.
as for the little kids that have to ride on the opposite side of the street, I havent figured out how to get them over to the right without yelling or sounding angry...
I just know that you cant be threatening angry or overbearing... it makes the ride all antagonistic.
Because its pretty clear and simple what kind of ride they're going on. If they can't follow simple rules, why should the ride leader accommodate their lack of understanding?
buckchin responding to a comment by palucha66
01.19.10 - 11:10 pm
I would only give a spiel at the beginning of the ride (just before we start moving) explaining that these rides will cease to be awesome and amazing if we keep attracting the boys in blue. Explain that when people go too fast and way ahead of the music and then have to double back that accidents are more prone to occur (even to the culprits themselves) but that when motorists see what's going on (chaos, I would assume from their perspective) that the police would feel inclined to HAVE to do something.
I think if put into the right words and have a few people with varying degrees of perspective speak up (from the velocipedes who loves to go fast, to the ones such as myself who love to cruise near the music to enjoy both the route and the soundtrack specifically made for this route) we might just get at these kids. You have to come at them kids with different perspectives. That's the only way they'll understand.
Let's all get up and dance to a song
That was a hit before your mother was born.
Though she was born a long, long time ago
Your mother should know (Your mother should...)
Your mother should know (...know.)
I've never seen anyone get antagonized over my shouting when I have lead a ride. I start talking to people in the front and ask them to help me call out when we are going to make a turn or stop. I usually don't bark in anger. But yeah, it's really frustrating when idiots are riding in the opposite side of the street or ignoring cars on the left. It's frustrating.
The ride leader isn't always perfect either. Maybe it is a hint that the ride should move at a little quicker pace. It's not like everyone is on cruiser bikes. We can make it move a little quicker sometimes.
I don't know. It will all work out. Everybody just support each other and don't be a dick nozzle.
Joe Borfo responding to a comment by Roadblock
01.19.10 - 11:33 pm
Why are some people are afraid to speak? Have someone else do it for you then! Midnight Ridazz rides used to always start with someone asking to pay attention to the route and no rida left behind. It's not that dorky to just give a quick request for people to be respectful and use common sense. It creates a communal vibe that sets the pace for the rest of the ride.
I sincerely believe that it is all of our responsibilities as part of a community that (obviously) cares about brilliant rides like RWNN and 2nd Fridays to help assist the ride leaders in making the magic happen. They plan the route, the music and do a LARGE amount of crowd control, as Barleye and others have mentioned. But what about us as fellow Ridazz? I think if this is stressing people out a little bit more than usual, perhaps we can all put our own efforts forth in trying to put the proverbial smack down a little bit moreso than we have before. Not in asshole ways, but in the ways mentioned above, amongst others. Firm, but fair, yadda yadda.
But let's do it & not just chat about it. And don't *just* rely on the folks who regularly make a point to try and reign in kids either. I think if *everyone* in this discussion actually said stuff at the time of any given incident, and we made it more of a habit...it might become part and parcel of what these kids understood as being THAT ride and WHY we love it. Lead by example as well as by teaching, no?
I've tried a lot of things.... and there was only one solution that works.
I've tried announcing that I am the ride leader. Does not work.
Wearing a very bright shirt/ flag. Does not work.
Yelling. Does not work.
Catching up with them and asking them VERY NICELY to slow down so that MY ROUTE isn't messed up. Does not work.
Uncle Cruss (Harry) telling them "YOU BLOODY WANKERS SLOW DOWN STAY BEHIND THE MUSIC!!!!!" Works for a little, but the problem starts up again.
Forming a line of Cruss Mobbers so no one can penetrate and get ahead: Does not work.
The only thing that works:
TAKE THE RIDE VERY VERY VERY FAR. THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE AT AND HAVE TO STAY BEHIND.
I have read all the posts and have come to a conclusion. Louis yelling them beginning with "HEY YOU MOTHERFUCKERS...." was the only thing that worked. granted the first stop of the ride was only about a mile away from there, it worked. they stayed way back.
I'm only speaking for riders on RWNN...We need to just stop the ride and yell and shame them into staying behind. I'm being serious.....I will need your help in doing so and we all need to be proactive. thoughts?
yelling at people and insulting them isnt going to work and doesnt work. that's why you guys have this big long stressed out thread about how shit is fucked up.
it's all in how you frame it. it's all about letting the front wander off into the wilderness. dont worry about the front.... call your turns and the people behind you will follow. the little kids at the front racing way ahead will be lost and good riddance to them. they will learn the lesson and learn to stay behind you in 2 turns or your money back.
hey don...i hear ya on this but the only thing that seemed to actually work was yelling at them. Usually it's only about 15 or so but in recent months it's grown to about 20-25 kids.
the real big problem with "letting the front wander off into the wilderness" is that if there's a turn coming up I can't make a left or a right with people racing by me on my left and right. It's happened many times...it's not safe and i'm not letting them dictate the ride.
barleye responding to a comment by Roadblock
01.20.10 - 4:13 pm
nonsense. if you are in the middle of a bunch of speeding riders then how did you get there without speeding yourself? two turns and they learn bro. if there is a turn coming up you have to make it clear 1 block in advance we've talked about being more vocal.. maintain your pace and call it call it call it as you turn. people will learn their lesson even if some of them crash - that's a lesson learned without yelling down at people and getting YOUR own self stressed out.. instead of "SLOW DOWN MOTHERFUCKERS!" it's "SLOWING SLOWING" subtle difference but putting the directions as a "we" rather than a command to others gives no one wiggle room to rebel. after that if they zoom off and you are the last person at the light... hahaha they all lost.
I just went through this exact same scenario helping RayRayRay lead the medical ride. that was probably the most disciplined ride in years and it had plenty of lil kids zooming around at first. no name calling no yelling at people. after literally 2 turns the kids in the front got it. in fact, there were points when a whole group of them broke off into the abyss we were all stopped at the light and the little kids were about a 2 blocks gone before they stopped and looked back feeling like idiots. other times the ride split up into two... I bet they had a great ride wherever they ended up.
a ride doesnt have to keep everyone on board to be fun. sometimes the fun is re-connecting with a lost group or just plain keeping your sanity by not caring about the ones who zoom off. you just have to be open to the idea of your ride getting split at the front. the medical ride stopped at lights, it turned it waited... you want me to help you on the next one? I bet I can get most of the kids to calm down.
The problem with those kids at the front of the ride racing their little hearts away is that they DON'T get lost. They just back track and do it all over again. I wish they'd get lost... maybe then they'd learn their lesson.
I think you got something there Brad. Completely stop the ride and just holler at them. Shame them. Keep doing so until they get the idea... make this part of your next ride, a beta ride of sorts. Good luck Brad.
July responding to a comment by barleye
01.20.10 - 4:33 pm
not in my experience. yours may be different. I do remember being on a ride and a leader g-d bless his soul was yelling and cursing and berating people.... I know he was only trying to keep order but being on a ride where someone is yelling and cursing is not very fun in my opinion... as a ride leader I've tried it both ways and found that it was more fun when I didnt care if people in the front got lost.
I'm not imploring him to call them names and such. Just to let his voice be heard. I understand that no one wants to be disrespected and by raising his voice it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be disrespectful. He'll just asserting himself and regaining control of HIS ride.
July responding to a comment by Roadblock
01.20.10 - 5:19 pm
I hear you, Brad. Those kids are punks plain and simple. They have no respect for the rides, the ridazz or cars. That's why I stopped going on the rides. I'm not sure what the solution should be. I'm just waiting for bikes not to be cool so they can move on the next big thing.
I agree with Roadblocks suggestion to just lead the ride and ignore the people who race on ahead but with an additional suggestion, not everyone who shows up at a ride knows who the ride leader is, people tend to go with the flow or to follow the most assertive ones in the bunch.
At the beginning of the ride, get up somewhere where people can see you and introduce yourself as "The Ride Leader" then people who don't have a clue, have a better idea of who exactly to follow. Maybe you already do this?
This was a real problem with some of the early NoHo midnite ridazz rides since good ol Brian was such a laid back dude on his pub crawlin, stretched out chopped rides until people gradually got to know him. He was always leading the rides from back in the pack cuz he couldn't keep up on his choppers.
If you don't want to wear a flag, but someone else was willing to, would you let them? Or do you just not like the idea in general?
Show these kids that sprinting out in front doesn't make them cool, but don't do it by bringing attention to them. Do it by showing them that no one is impressed or fussed.
The problem is, I'm pretty sure those kids WANT you to yell at them. They are attention whores. If you stop the whole ride to yell and call more attention to them, you are accomplishing their mission for them. Now EVERYONE is paying attention to them. You see a small amount of success from this technique because the kids take your attention (they don't discern between positive and negative attention) as a reward for their hard work sprinting out in front. As soon as they see that people have forgotten about their heroics, they'll do it all over again until you yell at them again... fulfilling their fantasy of being hated publicly (and they think wrongly) by the local authority figure. If you want them to stop, you have to stop rewarding their behavior.
reiterating the first post in case you haven't read this thread:
"Yeah - bailed early and rode back with a group. I'm tired of a bunch of people that don't know how to ride, don't know how to ride in a group, and are riding for all the wrong reasons. Most of them will never give anything positive to the scene. History repeating.
I'm kinda feeling done with the big rides and I'm really only a little sad - it's been coming for a while now. At least I knew it when it was good.
My impression is that these young kids don't read the forum or participate in any meaningful dialog, yet these are the ones we need to reach - trying to communicate with these guys seems like hitting a brick wall. They are in their own world, but unfortunately they're taking advantage of our world: fucking up the rides that guys like you put on."
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This was the worst RWNN (March 2010) to lead as there were at least 50 of the wannabe gangster thugs racing in front and trying to hijack the ride..
Lots of people loved the ride but us in front are the ones who had the worst time...It shouldn't be like that....Next month I'm stopping the ride if these kids do it again......the choice of stay behind the music or split will be given to them.........
I was talking to allen at the first stop. We were talking about how when we are actually riding, these idiots are everywhere. But when you get to the stops its like they magically disappear, and suddenly its a Utopian ride situation were you are surrounded by all the cool people on rides that care about the ride. Its cause the trouble makers hang out on the outskirts mainly. they have no interest in socializing with people. I think its the same with the start point, they're on the outskirts. So when you make anouncements, I dont even think they here them. Its all the same people surrounding you, who all follow the basic guide lines anyways. Maybe you could circle around to get the message out. You could even record the guide lines put it on the ipod and have it looping while someone slowly rides around. Now im not under the impression that they will care and change their ways, its almost hopeless to me, But at least they will actually here the message. I dont think most of these people even know they're on the ride with no name or care what that is. they just think that its all ktown.
buckchin responding to a comment by barleye
03.22.10 - 5:04 pm
WHY YOU ALL HATING ON THE YOUNGSTERS? THEY COOL, AND IF THEY TAKE OFF TOO FAR AHEAD, THEN LET THEM, WHO ARE YOU TO MAKE THEM FOLLOW YOUR SORRY ASS?
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? BIKEGOD? SHIT I REMEMBER WHEN...
...FUCK, ALL YOU DO IS BITCH ABOUT EVERYTHING. MAN GO SUCK A DICK, THEN CONTINUE LEADING THAT FUCKED UP RIDE, PEOPLE WILL STILL COME AND RIDE WITH YOU, AND FOLLOW YOUR SORRY ASS, AND TAKE YOUR SORRY ASS SPOKE CARDS, THEY ALWAYS BEGGING FOR YOUR SPOKE CARDS, WHY YOU FEEL ALL 'RAPED' AND SHIT.
LOOK HOW BIG THE TURN OUT IS AT YOUR RIDE, YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY FOR THAT.
SEEMS TO ME LIKE NO MATTER HOW GOOD THINGS ARE FOR YOU, THE 'INNER' BITCH WILL ALWAYS COMPLAIN. FUCK DUDE, GET A LIFE. ROADBLOCK TOLD YOU HOW THE MEDICAL RIDE WENT AND YOU DON'T EVEN COMMENT, SEEMS TO ME LIKE ALL YOU DO IS BITCH, BECAUSE YOU LIKE TO BE THAT WAY, REMINDS ME OF MY SECOND WIFE.
AND "FUCK YOUR RIDE" LOL
AND YOUR SO LAME, ITS UPLIFTING, I MEAN WHILE EVERYBODY SAYS THAT YOU PUT ON THE BEST RIDE IN LA, AND ALL YOU CAN DO IS COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING, I'M CLUELESS? FUCK DUDE YOU ACT LIKE YOU GOT PUSSY BETWEEN YOUR LEGS,
DID YOU HEAR ME? ---->>> THEY ALWAYS BEGGING FOR YOUR SPOKE CARDS, WHY YOU FEEL ALL 'RAPED' AND SHIT.
LOOK HOW BIG THE TURN OUT IS AT YOUR RIDE, YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY FOR THAT.
SEEMS TO ME LIKE NO MATTER HOW GOOD THINGS ARE FOR YOU, THE 'INNER' BITCH WILL ALWAYS COMPLAIN.
"big rides" can be difficult because EVERY BIKE HAS ITS OWN PACE.
we always say "no ridaa left behind" but does that mean "no ridaa left ahead"?
Cyclists naturally have a tendency to catch up to the person in front of them, if somebody fast is in the front, or if a "ride leader" is chasing after some runaway ridazz the entire ride is going to go fast.
If people make an effort to stop the front/ middle part of the ride at red lights the ride will naturally regroup.
If the people off the front want to ride in a group then they will wait around until everybody else catches up.
Chase after the mashers and the entire ride will be too fast and become fragmented as the slower people on heavier bikes get stuck at lights while everybody else rides on.
Some tips I've picked up after doing 3+ years of leading Spoke(n) Art Rides and doing countless other bike things:
- BREAK IT UP! Break the ride into groups, with someone "leading" each one. The "fast" ride is the most important part of keeping my rides fun for everyone. This can be a really casual thing, like picking someone that knows where you're going (and knows the streets) and then telling everyone else "If you want to get there fast, here is the fast ride leader". Breaking the "fast" group off will make the entire ride a million billion times better, as these ass hats ALWAYS are sending the ride down the wrong street through the city, and splitting the rest of the ride up. Break off the "fast" ride and you can help guide the rest of the ride at a more civilized pace.
- MEGAPHONE! If you bring a megaphone to help corral people and tell them when and where you're going to head next, whom to follow, etc. it saves everyone a lot of trouble and confusion. Nothing more is needed than a couple of repeated reminders about where you're headed and whom will get you there (fast, medium or slow).
- Everything else is up to you, but it helps to ask people to be nice and not fuck up bike riders reputations by destroying the city that is giving us all this opportunity to enjoy it.You don't have to follow any rules, but it helps to do so (for rides that will come after yours).
Wow I think eddieboy just worded you up big time homeboy. Haha when Eddieboy starts speaking sense... Nevermind. Dude lemme tell you, I met a lot of youngsters that love your ride because it usually goes closer to their neighborhoods than any other ride. Know this, these youngsters have good hearts. That's why they are riding bikes. And furthermore your ride is giving them a chance to get out in a protected setting.
I love you man but I want you to go back and re read my words Barleye. In order for these youngsters to learn YOU have to teach them. I believe in teaching by circumstance not by yelling at them or punishing others for their behaviour.
It's REAL simple.
The ride turns when YOU say it does. You have to give directions aggressively and not get too bummed when direction isn't taken.
Maybe this will make sense...I plan a route.. ride it, drive it sometimes twice to ensure a successful night. Fast forward to roll time...the kids race out in front and others follow them...suddenly the ride is not being led on the chosen route...month after month this happens. That was the death of the mosey..u guys can defend this shit all you want...I ask some of them to stay back and they just stare back blankly..they just don't give a shit and that's the worst part.
barleye responding to a comment by Roadblock
03.22.10 - 9:04 pm
Hey Brad, if putting together this ride and leading is starting to seem like work then maybe something needs to be done. I'm sure this is the exact same way Richie felt about CRANK MOB (remember that ride?). But what did he do? He reinvented it. He took it "underground" so to speak and will develop it once again as he goes. In the meantime, the few people that are privy (and this is the fucked up part because all rides should be inclusive) and their guests can start forming a community once again. It's turned into a scene and no one really cares about the work and effort being put forth by the people taking the time to put an awesome route together. It'll be easier to reach 50 or so as opposed to 150. So even if there were a few bad apples in the bunch, they'd be less likely to want to stand out or not follow the guidelines. The number of riders who actually care about the reputation of the community will certainly outnumber them and will be able to say something to them without feeling like there could be some sort of retribution for speaking up.
July responding to a comment by shotgunBOOMBOOM
03.22.10 - 9:33 pm
I always thought it would be funny to find a good location for a turn, as all the racers race ahead have people there ready to set up barricades on both sides of the streets and block them all in while the ride disappears. I know far fetched. Or you could just have someone throw down thousands of thumb tacks on each side of the street.
buckchin responding to a comment by barleye
03.22.10 - 9:35 pm
AND THAT CHOICE IS YOURS, EJOY IT THE WAY IT IS, REMEMBER HOW THEY WAS DOING U-TURNS JUST TO CATCH UP WITH YOU? (IN DTLA) FUNNY WATCHING IT, ILL TELL YOU.
AND 'YES' THEY DO READ THIS WEBSITE.
OR "STOP YOUR LAME ASS RIDE", SIMPLE REALLY,
NO BODY WILL MISS IT ANYHOW, ACCORDING TO THE WAY YOU 'SEE IT", JESUS.
I would never take it underground. It's not just tennis..mosey went underground. For many months...you think lance and steph enjoyed doing that? There's. Something. Really enlightening about putting on a ride people enjoy..I,m glad people are having fun.
YOUR THE ONLY PUSSY THAT SEEMS NOT TO ENJOY IT, BUT I THINK YOU STARTED THIS THREAD ( AS YOU HAVE DONE BEFORE ) JUST TO HEAR US TELL YOU HOW GOOD YOUR RIDES ARE, THE ROUTES,
EVER NOTICE WE NEVER TELL YOU WHAT A WONDERFUL PERSON YOU ARE??
You just seem reluctant to trying something different. Fast pack slow pack, word of mouth, thumb tacks JK. You cant make something better unless you try something different.
buckchin responding to a comment by barleye
03.22.10 - 10:40 pm
thank god you are not making this underground. i look forward to this ride every month its always fun. i always stay behind the music and sometimes try to cork the intersections. im not in the "in" crowd so if it went underground bye bye rwnn
A lot of negative, anti-youth, hate was spewed in this thread.
I've got a good idea that has worked really well for the rides I lead that tend to get bigger:
Create a "fast" group, pick someone who is (1) FAST and (2) Knows the city/streets really well. The fast group leader gets to find out where the ride is heading at the beginning, and at each successive stop (they wait for you to show up at the next stop and tell them where to go next with the fast group).
This makes the whole ride so much more mellow, and it gets the knuckle heads looking to prove themselves (whatever) something really, really, fun to do.
Try it. Seriously. Get a friend ahead of time to be the fast ride leader, or just find someone before the ride by shouting out "Who knows the streets well and is fast?" Someone will raise their hand or point someone else out. Just draft that person into service, and most likely they'll love the "job" you hand them.
ubrayj02 responding to a comment by barleye
03.22.10 - 10:42 pm
I used to kind of think it was funny when the ride would turn and you see all these people making uturns. But now I realize it creates a lot of dangers. Because these people end up trying to ride really fast back up to the start through the group a lot of the time almost causing crashes and endangering peoples safety. Or riding in the on coming traffic lane.
I totally agree with that.These kids should start their own rides or like you said,"TRY"to do WolfPack.I help organize a couple rides,one chill ride,one fast ride.Its simple.Create a meet spot and time,tell all your buddies,post it here,make fliers...On the chill ride my friends and I do,we break the ride up in 2 groups.Group1 goes hell'a fast and corks for group2.Group1 gets to stops first and some fall back to pull group1 up/cork.Unfortunate but true most of these young kids don't know much about the "group" ride ettiquite.Maybe a hand out with rules of the ride before the ride starts?This way they can choose not to come or follow the rules.I feel you,this is one reason,why I don't post the rides I organize.Good luck mate,ride on.
Big "PNUTS" out...
PNUTS responding to a comment by onemanstrash
03.22.10 - 11:22 pm
-->
Ridazz Roulette!
It always works for a little bit. You put the effort into the ride to get it there.
WANNA MAKE THE RIDES BETTER?
You can have like a front line:.
WHY YOU ALL HATING ON THE YOUNGSTERS? THEY COOL, AND IF THEY TAKE OFF TOO FAR AHEAD, THEN LET THEM, WHO ARE YOU TO MAKE THEM FOLLOW YOUR SORRY ASS?
YOU SHOULD LOOK AT THE WORDS ON BORFO'S RECORD ABOVE, READ THAT SHIT.