LACM
Thread started by
Yoshawn at 05.1.10 - 9:00 am
Last night got a little crazy when some guy got K.O'd by a 12 year old kid. it was a sight to see that i didnt see. the kid was behind a tree and the guy went behind as well, next thing i saw was the dude rolling off the curb into the gutter. i gotta give props to that kid. One hitter quitter.
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also before getting to the park when they surrounded that car some guy ran up the car and landed a kick to the face then he got fukked up
fixedshruk05.1.10 - 10:22 am
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So is this what you people do on LACM? Fight?
goosegoose05.1.10 - 10:28 am
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No more of these bumfights movies. We've matured to fixie fights. Congratulations
revolution05.1.10 - 11:12 am
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This is ridiculous.
Dont see how we are promoting fun or safety with shit like this.
BoneCrush05.1.10 - 11:26 am
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I used to be a big supporter of Critical Mass.
I've seen amazing examples of Critical Mass in other cities and counties.
The results of Critical Mass in LA have been a failure, due to the reactionary and disrespectful attitudes of a large amount of it's participants.
We need to speak out AGAINST this behavior together in order to for it to change for the better.
Otherwise, it's only going to get worse and hurt the progress of cycling in LA, and damage the image of our cycling communities.
If you don't care. Then don't do anything about it. It will only get worse.
I want to do something about it, but it's not easy for me to always get out. Also, my participation would have little effect, alone. People need to be better examples and teach others not to get aggressive and focus on fun and safety.
Joe Borfo05.1.10 - 11:51 am
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Critical Mass!! alright, luckily i was present when both of those situations got out of hand.
Let's start with Homeboy who got out of his car and challenged anybody and everybody to a fight. the dude got out of his car and started yelling shit like, "you fuckin' assholes my son is in the hospital!!" a few times while pushing people and stuff. Then he said, "who wants to fuckin' fight me, CMON!!!" WOW! Big mistake. Now i don't condone violence, but, DUDE you had it coming if you act like you can take on a crown of 100 bikers around you. So some hairy ape charged him but was held back. And just as i thought everything would end there some other kid ran jumped on to the trunk of the guys car and proceeded to land the Coolest Mid Air Face stomp i have ever seen!! (and i watch a lot of kung fu movies!) All hell broke lose for about a minute and i took off. And i forgot to mention the dudes wife or girlfriend was right there in the middle of chaos when shit went down. I felt a bad for the guy only because of what he said about his son being in the hospital. if it was BS then he got what was rightfully his. An Asswhoopin'..
now the dude that got taken out by a 12 year old boy DESERVED it! I saw him punch some other little kid (he was about 10yrs old) in the face and just walked away. As he walked away some other kid (the infamous 12 yr old) ran up to him and let 1 overhand right fly. That Was It. dude rolled onto the street and never moved.
Now all of this could have and should have been avoided. But to some degree, some action needed to be taken. We all know if the cops would have been called in the case of the kid getting punched. The cops would not have given a shit. Let's face it, cops hat bike rides, especially CM! And that Bozo who got stomped should not have been pushing, yelling, and challenging anyone.
Other than that i had a great time! Remember folks don't lose your heads in time of great stress.
PEACE.
Jee05.1.10 - 12:14 pm
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You're right! what are some step we can take to change the image of Cycling in L.A??
Jee responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
05.1.10 - 12:17 pm
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I was wondering if that was going to happen again. I did Bike Town Beta in Westwood. It was good and it left me with a sense of a bicycle community.
mk4524 responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
05.1.10 - 12:38 pm
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I have someones keys that were left at the CVS where the first fight broke out. email me at bajallama@aol.com and describe them to me, ride on
bajallama05.1.10 - 7:51 pm
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As the "Demon that is Spiral" once said,
Too much bromance.
Seriously, keep the flexin' confined to gym mirrors and let loose on the ride.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by Jee
05.1.10 - 9:08 pm
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tru that borfo no need 4 nonsense LACM ride to ride ARMADILLOS rule..
adrenalink05.1.10 - 9:41 pm
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well you gotta look at it this way. When you get all the thugs and such in a group, all from different crews and stuff, with beer and other alcoholic beverages, you get a fun ride with alot of fights and cops. pretty fun. but dont doubt LACM, there are alot of cool sober people there to mingle with and have fun with.
Yoshawn05.1.10 - 10:56 pm
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hmmm, i do not agree that a person that has a child in the hospital deserves a beaten because he is not reacting well... he is not reacting well due to the stress, concern, anxiety and any of many other emotions including frustration that they can not get to their child.... perhaps this individual did not act appropriately to your standards but as a cycling community we do have to acknowledge those emergencies... if an emergency vehicle sounds their sirens LACM and any ride for that matter moves to the right and stops.... why is that... because you give power and authority to an emergency vehicle but not a car with an emergency???
LACM attracts hmmm individuals that enjoy the huge crowds and ability to run through red lights.... Most individuals are not aware about the significance and motive of LACM... at this point from reading this posts it seems that LACM is probably having the reverse impact that it is suppose to create...
LACM claims it does not have a leader or leaders... perhaps it is time for a group to set up as guardians or counselors to LACM and for the next couple of rides stop at all red lights or every other red light... this may sound like a horrible idea but this may discourage individuals that are not at LACM for the expression of cycling rights....
dayone05.1.10 - 11:40 pm
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He said his son was in the hospital, he may have been lying, I saw him and he was trying to push through a pack or riders twenty thick. He was in a fancy suv, surprise, surprise, as they are THE NASTIEST drives on the road and he was being aggressive.
All he had to do was wait five minets, a few more minets more than a stop light signal and we would have past and he could have moved on. He was a big, white, bald, body builder meat head of a guy looking to intimidate riders with his SUV, I don't condone violence but he really was acting like a total fool.
It would have been great if we could have stopped at the red to let him go by, but with hundreds of riders that is simply not and option and it's very unsafe.
He needed to have some common sense and sit behind the line at the intersection and wait 5 to 7 minets for us to go by. Period. He was looking for a fight and he found one! Good for him! He got what he wanted.
Girl Power responding to a
comment by Jee
05.2.10 - 12:04 am
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@girl power
you need to put yourself in his shoes...just close your eyes and imagine you are in a car headed to the hospital because a dear close family member is at the hospital... we do not know the entire circumstances of what information he was given or why his child was at the hospital... but let us say he is lying... the reality is that one day that could potentially be true and maybe LACM also needs to evolve and find solutions to that situation...
he does not know how long he has to wait... ive corked streets for LACM and that wait is not 5 minutes... plus, we do not know whether he had already waited 10 minutes or 15 minutes... or waited 1 minute for that matter...
why not give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he did have a child in the hospital... why are you being cynical and instead assume he was lying because "he was a big, white, bald, body builder meat head of a guy" that "was in a fancy suv, surprise, surprise, as they are THE NASTIEST drivers on the road and he was being aggressive".... at that point both parties, him and the individuals that participated in that situation representing LACM were being aggressive....
whether this guy was lying or not and deserved this or not is what you are focusing on... perhaps, focus on what LACM theoritically stands for and whether this notion is being accomplished by the cycling community that represents LACM... and MR as a whole as well....
at the end of this altercation what did the LACM representatives of last night really accomplish... created another driver that perhaps will be more aggressive when a rider is out there ALONE... I ride my bicycle through all parts of LA, the SFV, Highland Park and i would not want to encounter this driver because of his negative perception of cyclists... I am positive to him we are all the same...
funny how individuals here say they do not condone violence but are happy that this guy got what he "deserved"... really? you guys really need to start developing and practicing your ideologies....however, i am sure this is not the site for that...
dayone05.2.10 - 12:56 am
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I am in 100% agreement with this. And I would like nothing better than to see LACM turn around and get better.
I don't *want* to go to LACM because of the events discussed herein, and attitudes like "he deserved to get kicked" or some such. It's ridiculous and horrific to me, and frankly I don't want to be lumped in with that. The image of our cycling community has already been seriously damaged by LACM. I've had to personally try to explain to people that the riding that I do isn't just "that huge ride that runs red lights and runs into people's cars and wreaks havoc." People have actually brought the hospital issue up to me before Friday's incident, and I agreed with them. I wasn't there, and I'm sure the guy was combative, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, as they say.
LACM must be reconfigured. I would go back to LACM, but I would only go back if we could get a group together that *could* try to reign in this stuff. But then people are gonna yelp about that not being the "point" of LACM. So is a change even
possible?
sinaphile responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
05.2.10 - 1:20 am
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why can't it be reconfigured... make a decision as a whole.... what is more important... for LACM to be leader-less... or for LACM to disseminate cyclists rights to share the road with drivers...???
dayone05.2.10 - 1:47 am
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Dayone...please email me @ barleye at Hotmail.com
barleye responding to a
comment by dayone
05.2.10 - 2:41 am
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I'll be the one to say it: Critical Mass as a tool to promote cycling (assert rights, build community, re-imagine public space, etc., etc) hit the point of diminishing returns a long time ago and has since shot past the point of negative returns. I don't doubt that people have sentimental reasons for not wanting to let it go, but...it's time to let it go.
PC responding to a
comment by dayone
05.2.10 - 2:51 am
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My concern with just letting it go & not trying to fix it is that its gonna keep going & getting worse/more out of control, creating an even more difficult climate for the rest of us and the other rides.
sinaphile responding to a
comment by PC
05.2.10 - 3:29 am
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i hate LACM and
riding good job kids!
Xray05.2.10 - 4:57 am
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Think about it: how are these people who got their asses kicked going to react next time they see a group of people on bikes, or even a solo rider out for a spin or on a commute?
mr rollers responding to a
comment by Jee
05.2.10 - 9:24 am
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Critical Crap
It needs to be retired. Cycling needs to evolve and LACM is holding that back.
Foldie05.2.10 - 9:58 am
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You're right. They are goning to see cyclists and the entire cycling community as a bunch of punks who like to beat up on people because they are in a large group of their peers...Something should be done.
This was my first ride. And all I wanted to do was post some of what I saw as facts. Jumping off a guys car and stomping him is wrong. But, I have to admit. If my little brother, son, friend, etc. Was punched by a grown man for NO reason. I would have clocked him in the head aswell. Does not matter if I was on a bike, in a car, on a damn Big Wheel for that matter. Is it right?? No. But, sometimes, even if you know what your doing is wrong you can stand up and be ok with it. Just like when we crossed through the red lights. Was it wrong? I would say so. Was there a purpose? I think so. Do I feel bad about it today? Nope.
In the end. All that fighting and aggression shouldn't have a home in LACM. But, Defending your friends and fellow cyclist not wrong.(and I'm not talking about the "Bald, body builder, meat head" situation).
I hope the next LACM goes smoother. But, if it doesn't I doubt I'll be returning.
Jee responding to a
comment by mr rollers
05.2.10 - 10:32 am
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LACM has gotten worse and worse. However, I do remember a fair number of fights with motorists years ago, so not much may have changed in that realm.
Choppercabras is all the bike love you'll need. See you then!
rev106 responding to a
comment by Jee
05.2.10 - 10:53 am
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Self defense may be an excuse for fighting back in a situation, but from what was described, to me it was pretty clearly a riot mob mentality reaction. I hang with people who are going to react with common sense and make the best decisions for the good of the group. If I can't trust a group I'm riding with, I won't roll with them. For they all represent each other.
I don't know what the solution is. It would take a sea change of thinking before things will be better for large group rides, but with underage drinking and no sense of responsibility for actions it's doomed.
It's really sad. I wish for it to improve, but reality shows that I need to let this go. Good luck. All the best.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Jee
05.2.10 - 10:58 am
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The guy was driving a white sedan.. Honda Accord or Civic. Definitely not a SUV. I'm sure someone who shot video footage can confirm.
will responding to a
comment by Girl Power
05.2.10 - 2:04 pm
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Its sad that these days when i think of critical mass all i think of is.. "Maybe ill find the guy who stole my bike!"
SnapperS05.2.10 - 2:09 pm
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Maybe if we stop inviting all the little kids all the rides would get better. Usually when I go to a ride with a lot of kids that don't look above 18 I'm already gone.
BWiize05.2.10 - 2:18 pm
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dont be so age-ist. the bike community is an incredibly good way to educate young people (our future) about the benefits of bicycling.....there are a lot of bad kids but that doesn't mean they're all bad. usually the kids on the westside aren't as crazy as the midcity/ktown/dtla kids
superblueman3 responding to a
comment by BWiize
05.2.10 - 2:26 pm
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This goes along with the 12 year old mentality on this forum.
Just a glimpse of your Mad Max future.
Dedicated81805.2.10 - 2:48 pm
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True about the eastside kids. It might have something to do with socioeconomic status. Its no surprise in this country and around the world that the more you head towards the coastal areas, the more wealth and education you tend to encounter. No well off to do person wants to live on a bunch of hot flat land with no oceans, rivers, lakes, or mountains. Riverside County is a good example of socioeconomic status.
From what I've seen on the rides its the younger kids that jack from stores because they can't buy beer so they bum rush and then hide within the group of bikers that aren't doing anything bad which in-turn makes us all look like idiots with the community and we end up losing credibility every time that happens. We don't gain anything from it, in actuality we go 1 step forward and 3 steps back because nobody recognizes the good we do but they will remember the jackings and the ass-beatings forever and don't think they wont tell their families and friends about it. So what happens in the end, people just look at us all like a bunch of hipster anarchist cyclist even though we are more than that, or at least we should be.
I've seen kids cause a lot of crashes by not holding the line, swerving and cutting off whole lanes or what not. I don't think most of them partake in this online forum anyway. I think they mostly come through word-of-mouth at school by other riders so they don't know the rules and the history or what the community means to us so they put their own spin on what it means to them, which is causing mayhem en-mass. I mean, I understand I was that age once but I also understand no matter what kind of educating you do, most of them will not listen. I've heard kids say, "I don't even listen to my own mom, what makes you think I'm going to listen to you." It's just the mentality they have at that age because they feel invincible and nobody can stop them, not even their own family, and yes I was at the point in the past before I found out I was only mortal. Hell, if I started riding with you guys in the late 90's and early 00's I'd be jacking with them but I grew up from my experiences.
It might not be the best way to limit all of the younger generation and maybe there is a better way but I see everyone complaining about how pathetic it is but I see nobody taking any action on the subject and until then they will continue to burn the spots that we hang out at and the cycling community as a whole. I'd also like to point out that what do you think drivers think when they see a group ride taking red lights and they are all kids. I'll tell you what I saw before I got started in this community and that is a bunch of fuckin' kid cyclist breaking the law so I can be late to wherever I gotta go but if it was a lot of older cyclist I thought what are they doing, where are they going, and for what. Age does make a difference in the thought process of the people that see us riding. I do think limiting liquor stops if your ride that day happens to have a lot of kids is a good idea but what else? I know there are rides out there that have nothing but kids so nobody that is older or more mature can tell them to hold the line, stay on your right, or don't steal pretty please. Honestly to host a ride with a lot of kids is babysitting and I don't see it as enjoying oneself. If your a kid and you do everything that's asked of you on a ride, good job, bring your friends because we need more like you.
All I'm saying is we need to find some solutions or this shit will continue so instead of complaining about it lets gets some constructive opinions as a family and implement them.
BWiize responding to a
comment by superblueman3
05.2.10 - 4:21 pm
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we'll lets educate the younger crowd.
AIDS66 responding to a
comment by BWiize
05.2.10 - 4:45 pm
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first you complain about someone being "age-ist"... and then you continue on to make another contradict yourself about not all kid's being bad, but most of the bad ones being from midcity/ktown/dtla.
way to go and continue on with those stereotypes. dumbass!
Gizzard responding to a
comment by superblueman3
05.2.10 - 4:51 pm
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*edit****
continue to contradict yourself
Gizzard05.2.10 - 4:52 pm
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My take on LACM is to just let it die. It's not worth fixing. Just stop going everyone. It's always going to be filled with low life immature teenagers with stolen brakless fixxes. You can not change them. If we all just stop going they will get to the start not knowing what to do and just go home. I say don't post LACM on the ride calender. I feel really bad for people who come to LACM expecting to be a joyous biking experince only to be tarnished by idiots.
STOP GOING TO LACM.
goosegoose05.2.10 - 7:48 pm
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This guy was using an SUV to intimidate riders, that is a felony. The riders were too many to stop at a stop light based on speed and visibility and the amount of cyclists and this was obvious to the driver who was attempting to crush riders with a large SUV. This guy was acting reckless and endangers dozens of people with bodily harm. He was clearly in the wrong, kid in hospital or not.
Just becasue you have an kid in the hospital it does not give you the right to use your car as a weapon against pedestrians, cyclists or other motorists.
Girl Power responding to a
comment by dayone
05.2.10 - 8:24 pm
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seriously dude? was attacking what i said and insulting me really necessary?
what i was saying was that, in my experience, when i'm on rides with alot of kids from eastside areas, i've been more likely to experience trouble with them than on rides with kids from the westside. it's not a stereotype, it's an observation based on personal experience... and the word "age-ist" was not being used in a completely serious manner....how did i contradict myself? you ought to calm down and not attack random people online for trivial reasons
superblueman3 responding to a
comment by Gizzard
05.2.10 - 8:52 pm
reply
you have some really valid points -- i agree that we need to find someway to remedy this problem... you could make the rides 18+ but then that would block kids who have only good intentions and the bad kids would simply make their own rides to cause chaos.... still tarnishing our reputation due to most peoples tendency to group things (like bikers) together as one.
superblueman3 responding to a
comment by BWiize
05.2.10 - 8:56 pm
reply
LOL!...
Here's a lil something to prove I'm not agist
Gizzard responding to a
comment by superblueman3
05.2.10 - 8:59 pm
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Instead of letting it die, I say put it on the shelf and drag it back out once we're 100% sure that the "hotheads" have lost steam, moved onto other prey, ate each other,. etc
Like CRANK Mob, CruzWithUs, and all other rides that have either been scaled back enormously or shelved indefinitely, it was for the greater good.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by goosegoose
05.2.10 - 9:34 pm
reply
Actually, yes. Not legally of course. But if my kid needs to get to the hospital, and s/he can't because a pack of drunk, stoned kids are in the way, because they somehow think that riding in circles in the middle of the streets will somehow encourage people of different social/economic/racial classes to ditch their cars, or get off the bus and start getting wasted and riding brakeless single speeds, I might not be so adverse to being a tad aggressive in clearing a path.
I wonder what would've happened if it were an Ambulance. Would the "two wheels good, four wheels bad" program still run?
I think, that if folks really wanted respect as cyclist, maybe they would ride more frequently, and obey the laws, or at least use common sense, as opposed to fetishizing the act of riding a bike.
sleepy responding to a
comment by Girl Power
05.2.10 - 10:56 pm
reply
"I wonder what would've happened if it were an Ambulance. Would the "two wheels good, four wheels bad" program still run?"
the only time i've seen massive rides such as LACM stop and I mean really stop, is when emergency vehicles are around.
AIDS66 responding to a
comment by sleepy
05.2.10 - 11:07 pm
reply
"But if my kid needs to get to the hospital, and s/he can't because a pack of drunk, stoned kids are in the way, because they somehow think that riding in circles in the middle of the streets will somehow encourage people of different social/economic/racial classes to ditch their cars, or get off the bus and start getting wasted and riding brakeless single speeds, I might not be so adverse to being a tad aggressive in clearing a path."
I'm not a kid, I was not intoxicated and none of us were riding in circles. I don't know the state of the other riders, but, if they were high I could not tell, they were just riding about 11 mph down the road and no one was going in circles.
And you are never allowed to ram into others in a car regardless of having a kid in the hospital.
And I think that guy was lying, I bet he just wanted to push through becasue he had to miss a green light. Poor baby. Do you know how many green lights I miss sitting in gridlock in my car? If we were cars he sure as hell would not have dared to ram into us, no, he was an obnoxious SUV driver with road rage looking for a fight and he picked a fight and got exactly what he was looking for.
Girl Power responding to a
comment by sleepy
05.3.10 - 12:05 am
reply
Good stuff.
You sound stressed out. Try riding a bike solo sometime.
sleepy responding to a
comment by Girl Power
05.3.10 - 12:09 am
reply
Mark it in your diaries, folks: the day PC and Sleepy agreed on something.
Um, so, anyway. I logged in tonight expecting to get gangbanged here in the thread for suggesting last night that CM be allowed to die. I'm really surprised to see how many other people have been thinking the same thing. Could there be a sea change happening here?
PC05.3.10 - 12:39 am
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seriously dude ? was attacking what i said and insulting me really necessary ?
superblueman3
05.2.10 - 11:52 pm
Make no mistake superblueman3 adheres to a double standard as he has
attacked and attempted to insult me on other threads for having a different
opinion other than what he perceives as a PC point of view.
pathetic....
Dedicated818 responding to a
comment by superblueman3
05.3.10 - 12:44 am
reply
I agree, let it die. When it accomplishes the exact opposite of what its supposed to accomplish, whats the point?
buckchin responding to a
comment by PC
05.3.10 - 12:47 am
reply
I was not on this ride, but my brother was and I heard about the fights before the post went up. I have been reading all the comments that everyone has posted and all of you have some good points. I really don't think that Critical Mass need to be disbanded, but I do think that the older people on the ride need to set a good example for the younger riders. Sure we know that there are "hot heads" on the ride, but how many of us have let that one person know that their actions set an example of what Critical Mass is not. I say that the next time you see a youngster or anyone else acting out of line let that person know that their behavior speaks volumes for the rest of the riders. Explain to that person that riding is mass is about having a good time without all of the nonsense. It's about promoting and uplifting the cycling community. If you really want to change the direction of the ride as a whole, first work on changing the attitude of the individual rider.... It's just a thought.......
Don_Juan05.3.10 - 12:55 am
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Don Juan, I'm not a parent, and these are not my kids. I'm a kid either, I'm way past thirty...if you know what I mean.
But, the people causing problems in the last ride were two "mature, grown up men".
The guy in the car was in his late thirties, the kids did northing wrong, he was RAMMING riders with his suv!
And another older gentleman punched a ten year old boy in the face for no apparent reason.
Both of these men actions are felonies and they both were met with a swift comeuppance. I won't say justice since it was not handled in the courts. But these two 'older adults' were the problem on the ride. The teen boys were not doing anything wrong.
I don't know that that is always the case but it was when I was on the ride and I saw what I saw.
Girl Power responding to a
comment by Don_Juan
05.3.10 - 1:26 am
reply
I wasn't there to see what exactly happened. The only thing I do know is that at some point the focus of the ride got lost. Again I wasn't there, but I do know at some point that everything could of been avoided if a sensible person could of put a sensible thought in either person head. That's the point that I'm trying to make.
Don_Juan responding to a
comment by Girl Power
05.3.10 - 1:37 am
reply
Well, I understand. But, I would say that 80% of the ride had already gone by, I ride a beach cruiser so I'm always at the end of the rides, and this SUV driver only had to wait a couple more minets til he had the "all clear".
I've waited in gridlock in my car and missed four and five lights due to selfish drivers going on the yellow and red. Did I ram my car into them? Did I inch into the middle of the line of cyclists to bogart my way in to insist on my right of way on MY green light. No, of course not. And neither should this SUV driver.
We all miss our turns at lights, all driver, all cops all cyclists, it happens to everyone all the time. This guy was in the wrong and the cyclists who intervened were defending themselves and preventing him from damaging any more personal property or causing injuries to cyclists.
Girl Power responding to a
comment by Don_Juan
05.3.10 - 1:43 am
reply
Ah, nothing quite like a beach cruiser to get around town!
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Girl Power
05.3.10 - 5:20 am
reply
Who's going to the "We Are Traffic" screening tonight?
alicestrong05.3.10 - 9:15 am
reply
LACM won't die for the simple fact that it's not a "Midnight Ridazz" ride. It's a Los Angeles Ride and The ride is posted on other websites besides M.R.
Someone have balls and post up a ride same night different part of town.
barleye05.3.10 - 9:45 am
reply
GP
The vary nature of LACM is to cause conflict. Again I think the cyclist pronouncing their rights to the road has run out of gas (see what I did there).
People in cars are going to be pissed no matter if you try to justify it by saying "cars cause traffic too".
Foldie responding to a
comment by Girl Power
05.3.10 - 9:55 am
reply
"Someone have balls and post up a ride same night different part of town"
Is the best idea I have heard yet!!!
X-Large responding to a
comment by barleye
05.3.10 - 10:01 am
reply
How many people were on the ride? I couldn't make it but do care about the number of riders that showed up as that is usually the most impressive part of this ride.
Fights, theft, vandalism and ignorance aside...this is an impressive ride.
Pariah05.3.10 - 10:40 am
reply
True about the eastside kids. It might have something to do with socioeconomic status. Its no surprise in this country and around the world that the more you head towards the coastal areas, the more wealth and education you tend to encounter. No well off to do person wants to live on a bunch of hot flat land with no oceans, rivers, lakes, or mountains. Riverside County is a good example of socioeconomic status.
From what I've seen on the rides its the younger kids that jack from stores because they can't buy beer so they bum rush and then hide within the group of bikers that aren't doing anything bad which in-turn makes us all look like idiots with the community and we end up losing credibility every time that happens. We don't gain anything from it, in actuality we go 1 step forward and 3 steps back because nobody recognizes the good we do but they will remember the jackings and the ass-beatings forever and don't think they wont tell their families and friends about it. So what happens in the end, people just look at us all like a bunch of hipster anarchist cyclist even though we are more than that, or at least we should be.
I've seen kids cause a lot of crashes by not holding the line, swerving and cutting off whole lanes or what not. I don't think most of them partake in this online forum anyway. I think they mostly come through word-of-mouth at school by other riders so they don't know the rules and the history or what the community means to us so they put their own spin on what it means to them, which is causing mayhem en-mass. I mean, I understand I was that age once but I also understand no matter what kind of educating you do, most of them will not listen. I've heard kids say, "I don't even listen to my own mom, what makes you think I'm going to listen to you." It's just the mentality they have at that age because they feel invincible and nobody can stop them, not even their own family, and yes I was at the point in the past before I found out I was only mortal. Hell, if I started riding with you guys in the late 90's and early 00's I'd be jacking with them but I grew up from my experiences.
It might not be the best way to limit all of the younger generation and maybe there is a better way but I see everyone complaining about how pathetic it is but I see nobody taking any action on the subject and until then they will continue to burn the spots that we hang out at and the cycling community as a whole. I'd also like to point out that what do you think drivers think when they see a group ride taking red lights and they are all kids. I'll tell you what I saw before I got started in this community and that is a bunch of fuckin' kid cyclist breaking the law so I can be late to wherever I gotta go but if it was a lot of older cyclist I thought what are they doing, where are they going, and for what. Age does make a difference in the thought process of the people that see us riding. I do think limiting liquor stops if your ride that day happens to have a lot of kids is a good idea but what else? I know there are rides out there that have nothing but kids so nobody that is older or more mature can tell them to hold the line, stay on your right, or don't steal pretty please. Honestly to host a ride with a lot of kids is babysitting and I don't see it as enjoying oneself. If your a kid and you do everything that's asked of you on a ride, good job, bring your friends because we need more like you.
All I'm saying is we need to find some solutions or this shit will continue so instead of complaining about it lets gets some constructive opinions as a family and implement them.
BWiize
responding to a comment by superblueman3
05.2.10 - 4:21 pm
nuff said...
chunkylover0905.3.10 - 10:45 am
reply
"True about the eastside kids. It might have something to do with socioeconomic status. Its no surprise in this country and around the world that the more you head towards the coastal areas, the more wealth and education you tend to encounter. No well off to do person wants to live on a bunch of hot flat land with no oceans, rivers, lakes, or mountains...."
I agree with much of your post, but your ideas of socioeconomic status are pure fail.
What makes MR and the L.A. social cycling scene work is that your socioeconomic status doesn't matter at all. All you need to be part of it is a bicycle and hopefully a decent friendly attitude.
A few of the most helpful and supportive ridazz here are folks without college degrees and with felony records, and some of the douchebaggiest are spoiled kids with plenty of $ and good transcripts.
Don't get me wrong, there are uneducated jackasses and awesomely friendly and well-educated folks as well, but the assumption that socioeconomic status is a predictor of whether a rider is likely to be decent or a d-bag is a bad one.
If you want to make the rides constructive, start a better ride, or pick the rides that are known for being well-run and positive.
JB responding to a
comment by BWiize
05.3.10 - 11:08 am
reply
HOW MANY RIDERS CAME OUT TO LACM?
Pariah05.3.10 - 11:28 am
reply
There were so many riders that the tally person is still trying to finish coming up with the numbers...
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Pariah
05.3.10 - 11:51 am
reply
That is an awesome photo! Do you have the link to the original jpeg so I may save it on my pc, pics on here tend to be a bit blurry compared to the original link.
Girl Power responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
05.3.10 - 12:00 pm
reply
"The vary nature of LACM is to cause conflict. Again I think the cyclist pronouncing their rights to the road has run out of gas (see what I did there).
People in cars are going to be pissed no matter if you try to justify it by saying "cars cause traffic too".
LACM is not to cause conflict, it's a way to enjoy the city, get some fresh air and be outdoors all at the same time.
It's Southern California, people don't want to spend all of their time cooped up in a office, car or house/apartment. And since car traffic has made traveling around LA and ENJOYING the city, actually getting out and about, almost impossible cycling is a wonderful alternative and I don't regret sitting and missing a few green lights to watch hundreds of people ride by on bikes, it changed my life for the better and opened my eyes to a new way to get around LA and enjoy the city and meet new friends and patronize small business that I never would have noticed, let alone tried to find parking for, otherwise.
Also, most driver cheer us on and are happy to wait, this SUV guy was mentally unstable, he had road rage, he was obviously an aggressive driver and there is no reason for me to think he would be less aggressive with a motorist on the frwy if they cut him off.
Plus, he was the only car on the road, no other cars where in the area during the altercation.
LACM is here to stay because LA is getting more congested and people want to get out of doors and be in the sunshine and get fresh air and enjoy their city and that's just not possible due to the high amount of traffic.
Fifteen years ago I used to travel to the beach, to Down Town LA to the Westside to patronize shops on a weekly basis, not any more. In recent years I've even stopped braving gridlock in Studio City to go to local shops. I had become work/house/car bound and it was miserable. Traffic has kept me firmly rooted in the SFV.
It's only due to LACM that I'm actually getting out and going to old shops and restaurants that I used to, and with the help of the redline subway I'm getting over the hill again and enjoying living in LA again.
LACM is not going away, it's only going to be bigger.
Girl Power responding to a
comment by Foldie
05.3.10 - 12:13 pm
reply
You are blissfully ignorant....you should do some research on Critical Mass Movement.
"LACM is not to cause conflict, it's a way to enjoy the city, get some fresh air and be outdoors all at the same time."
don't forget to add to your list...steal bikes, steal beer and shit from stores, tag and act like a mob when people get mad....
Foldie responding to a
comment by Girl Power
05.3.10 - 12:18 pm
reply
I boycotted this ride for ages but went out last Friday to see how it had progressed.
Didn't witness the car incident or the kid punching the other guy but it seems that with all this young testosterone about and no wisdom with age these things are going to happen. NOT GOOD!!! As the REVEREND JOE BORFO said earlier in this thread, paraphrasing, IT DOESN'T HELP the bicycling community.
Next time you are out spinning alone and some driver with a hard on decides to take you out because of a previous encounter with these large disorganized and sometimes aggressive rides........not to mention the thieving that sometimes goes on, REMEMBER WHY IT HAPPENED!!!
The ONLY way to make riding appealing to anyone else in/on motorized transport is to be courteous, share the road and DO NOT HAVE A TIT FOR TAT attitude!!!
IF YOU CAN'T LEAD BY GOOD EXAMPLE then find some rider who shares the road and rides appropriately AND FOLLOW THEIR EXAMPLE!!!!!!!
I know this all falls on deaf ears.
LASTLY, I was side swiped by a car on that ride. I think the car may have been more damaged than me. I was extremely lucky!! I don't think it was deliberate, maybe just an accident. The car didn't stop......
Limeyfly05.3.10 - 12:28 pm
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Oh I forgot, substitute
REGRESSION for PROGRESSION......
Limeyfly05.3.10 - 12:31 pm
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Wow.... I'm speechless.
You need to take off the rose-colored wheels on your bike. CM-and by extension nearly all Group rides, by their very nature, disrupt traffic.
Yes, disrupt traffic. Traffic is made up of a myriad of people in cars, people in buses, people walking, all going somewhere different from each other. The group ride is going to one destination. TOGETHER. The Mass impedes everyone else trying to go somewhere. The Mass is selfish.
The Mass doesn't make people think of riding a bike. Instead, people see the Mass a mob trying to get it's way.
sleepy responding to a
comment by Girl Power
05.3.10 - 12:35 pm
reply
LACM is a response to how, in general, motorist treat cyclists on the road EVERYDAY.
LACM is exactly designed to cause conflict, therefor awareness, to cycling in the city. For better or worst. It's a tactic, not everyone agrees with, but a valid and effective tactic.
One of the reasons that LACM doesn't have leadership is to reduce liability to any single person. Organizing isn't supposed to happen. The day and time of the start of the ride is agreed upon by anyone who cares. i.e. LAST FRIDAY, MAJOR CITY CENTER is usually the when and where. Each city is different, of course. But the tradition is the same.
POSTING, like on the RIGHT ===>> is usually a NO-no. Because the site owners and poster of this ride can be held liable, especially in cities that don't know anything about it, or its history. In LA or cities like SF or NY, it usually isn't a problem because they know all too well about its leaderless (dis)organization.
It's unfortunate that LA's CM has been dominated by a bunch of little thugs with hipster bikes, but that's the reality of. The only way to solve it is to DEAL with it, some make an announcement at the beginning. Some make it clear what this ride is, or isn't. Someone make it clear that "This might not be the ride for you..." Who? Who's gonna do this? YOU, or your friend. Or someone that doesn't have a problem with announcing to a crowd that isn't probably listening. I know Borfo would do this.
This fight isn't the first, don't kid yourself. Most people never see the conflict that happens on LACM. I've been in several! I've been in one where a guy jumped out of his car, ran after me and kicked my bike. And, if you know me, I'm not an aggressive guy. I do cork when needed, and I don't have a problem talking to motorists.
LACM can also be fun. It's the first Social Ride in LA, as far as I know. One of the things that seems to have been forgotten is that poeple used to dress up all absurd and crazy. Almost like clowns. Part of its tactic is to SHOW RIDING A BIKE IS FUN.
Riders from other cities EXPECT a Critical Mass. The first thing I do when I visit another city, in the world, I try to find out if they have a critical mass. Almost every major city in the world has a CM. It's the first place you go if you want to find the bike-scene. LA shouldn't be an exception. I guarantee there is at least one or two tourists from another city, state or country on every LACM. Imagine the disappointment if we didn't have a CM, or if our CM is a shitty ride.
LACM doesn't need to die, it just needs to be re-adjusted. Not fixed, not even reborn, just nudged in the right direction.
the reverend dak responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
05.3.10 - 12:52 pm
reply
Wow, this is an intelligent post. Finally.
328rides4ever responding to a
comment by the reverend dak
05.3.10 - 12:57 pm
reply
a daytime LACM would be fun
stella responding to a
comment by mattspeed
05.3.10 - 1:07 pm
reply
I think Don Juan has it right. This was my first CM and I'll be back. The demographics may changed and that is a good thing. This ride does not belong to any of us, but everyone of us can by example and intervention help guide CM when we engage, counsel and encourage our fellow riders on CM.
I was impreesed with nearly all of the riders: young ones, cager haters, old time environment types, and everybody else. We all one by one need to help keep This going. If something needs cooling down step in and and encourage others to help you.
SouthBayBent responding to a
comment by Don_Juan
05.3.10 - 1:19 pm
reply
MAN CRITICAL MASS WAS THE SHIT
I DIDN'T SEE THE KID KNOCK OUT THE OLD DUDE
BUT DID YOU GUYS NOTICE THE AMAZING AMOUNT OF POON ON DECK?
DON'T SAY I NEVER DID ANYTHING FOR YOU DUDES OUT THERE
THE WIND WAS A BITCH THOUGH
SO WERE THE COPS
BUT SERIOUSLY, DONT GET RID OF CM!!!
-BIONIC OBAMA
PRESIDENT OBAMA05.3.10 - 1:30 pm
reply
I agree with LACM in the daylight.
That would probably stop some kids from being under the influence.
Pancakes05.3.10 - 2:12 pm
reply
I went to LACM and this may shock people .. but I plan on going next month ..... I have read every single post on this thread and it really sucks that so many people just want to give up ... Ending the ride isn't the ultimate solution ,a quick one, but not the solution ... all of the problems listed above will happen regardless of LACM... its sucks that I have to say it and it sucks that its true.
OsnapsonJC05.3.10 - 2:40 pm
reply
LACM mass can't die, it's ingrained in peoples mind. I know a lot of people that show up that don't check the site to see if it's posted, they just show up.
and if by your idea of ENDING LACM it means the so called leaders wont show up, even better. there are more than enough riders that would step up to continue it.
AIDS66 responding to a
comment by OsnapsonJC
05.3.10 - 3:09 pm
reply
Betcha he's holding figga's as big as Jigga's!!!
bentstrider responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
05.3.10 - 7:48 pm
reply
I realized that no one has mentioned that the guy who got his ass handed to him actually hit (well tapped) one of the ridazz. While this guy was trying to drive through the crowd a girl rode by and had to swerve. She almost fell, but managed to put her foot down to regain balance. She then decided to cork that car and thats when the guy tapped her and then it got violent. I think the violent reaction- of the people that rocked the driver- was more about protecting the girl than anything else.
Rage05.4.10 - 12:02 am
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And also one of the guys involved in the fight said something along the lines of "I wasnt gonna let him do that to a female" in a thug life voice.
Rage05.4.10 - 12:12 am
reply
on a positive note, and I believe somebody had mentioned this but, dayum!!! There was a lot of tail that night. I say girls-to-guy ratio was about even. My neck is still sore from breakin it on that group of asian girls. mmm mmm mmm..
-Destro "The Midnight Perv"
Destro1er05.4.10 - 5:16 pm
reply
thank president obama for the females on this ride.
AIDS66 responding to a
comment by Destro1er
05.4.10 - 5:34 pm
reply
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Ridazz Roulette!
