One mile! And it only took 5 years!
Still, it's promising...
nathansnider responding to a
comment by braydon
06.11.10 - 4:07 pm
reply
It's true-- believe it or not. Twitter was awash this morning with pix of Garcetti (in whose district the new sharrows exist) and Aurisha and Dorothy (of LACBC) celebrating their landing.
I'm riding over there tonight just to get my picture taken next to them. Their like celebrities, or Jesus, or any other person whom you've been waiting a reeeeeealy long time to get here.
Big props for those that stuck with this and finally got some movement. Looking forward to seeing like 100,000 more.
dudeonabike06.11.10 - 4:37 pm
reply
I didn't bike to work today but this is like blocks from my house
OsnapsonJC06.11.10 - 4:43 pm
reply
Actually I live less than a block away ...
OsnapsonJC06.11.10 - 4:45 pm
reply
I'm super psyched, I plan to ride them tonight!
trickmilla06.11.10 - 9:09 pm
reply
Finally. Paint. On. The. Fuckin. Street.
Congrats LACBC I know you guys have been lobbying hard and jumping through a million fuckin hoops for this.
This is a great achievement. Laying sharrows down sets a precedent for the rest of Los Angeles. I can't believe I'm out of town for this.
Roadblock06.11.10 - 9:22 pm
reply
this is really a great first start. fountain needs them badly, and im looking forward to seeing more of them all over the city.
oodlesofpoodles06.12.10 - 12:00 am
reply
Fuck! I know I sound like a complete bike nerd but I want to get back and ride the sharrows!!
Silence from certain bike advocates on this is DEAFENING.
But I'm raising a toast y'all!
Roadblock06.12.10 - 8:58 pm
reply
I can't believe all of this! Doesn't anybody remember Captain Sharrow? He was the first (well not with my Mommy, and won't be the last) to place sharrows on the streets of LA.
CryBaby06.12.10 - 11:13 pm
reply
we will ALWAYS remember captain sharrow...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by CryBaby
06.13.10 - 4:15 am
reply
Nice, finally! Put them everywhere!
First sharrows in LA are actually on the UCLA campus, not sure how many years they've been around.
jericho1ne responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.13.10 - 9:53 am
reply
This is so awesome! I can't wait to ride over them :)
et06.14.10 - 11:19 am
reply
kind of a disappointment. i only noticed about 15-20 sharrows and it definitely did not begin at vermont. it seemed like it was a span of about 5 blocks or so just east of western.
meandmybluebike06.14.10 - 11:26 am
reply
additionally, the sharrows are not painted in the middle of the lane which is another disappointment.
who supervised this operation? what the heck happened?
meandmybluebike06.14.10 - 11:31 am
reply
this is just a pilot program and and they are still laying sharrows on fountain (i know, the city moves painfully slow).
hopefully with our feedback they will increase the number of sharrows & improve placement.
trickmilla06.14.10 - 11:40 am
reply
Make sure nobody slips on them. Meowery thinks they're so slippery!
Joe Borfo06.14.10 - 11:42 am
reply
i led a ride down it yesterday.... it's only on the eastbound side and on the 5 blocks east of western.... this is a total fail/ plus they are too far to the right
superblueman306.14.10 - 11:43 am
reply
I ride on Fountain everyday, and before the sharrows were there, I was always honked at even if I was still far right.. Yesterday and this morning, I was right in the middle riding right over the new paint.. No honks, no trouble. All the had to drive past me! What a great feeling! Now we need the other side of fontsin done..
When will they be finished?
goosegoose06.14.10 - 11:46 am
reply
set up to fail, you think? ...
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by superblueman3
06.14.10 - 11:47 am
reply
Yeah .. I rode to work this morning and not one honk ... the only bad thing I can think f is that its only on one side of the street ... but its still better than nothing ...
OsnapsonJC responding to a
comment by goosegoose
06.14.10 - 11:50 am
reply
Its not at total fail Annie.
Its a pilot program.
They need feedback from riders like you to say, this is great, but they would be even better if they were 6"s to the left. And we need them on more streets.
This is a big pilot program with sharrows going on several streets.
Lets see how these work in practice before suggesting that we would be better with out them.
For me the failure was not having anything all these years.
Consider this a rehearsal, to get the kinks out before the big dance.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.14.10 - 11:52 am
reply
The geometry of the sharrows bike is dope....Where can I buy one?!
Pariah06.14.10 - 12:12 pm
reply
It actually rides kind of lame, but suit yourself.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Pariah
06.14.10 - 12:21 pm
reply
I never actually read the enitire thread before I gave my response ... They are not a fail .. I take this street all the time and people drive way to fast and love to honk, etc ... They are in the perfect spot and getting doored is not a possibilty because of where they are located ...
OsnapsonJC responding to a
comment by superblueman3
06.14.10 - 12:22 pm
reply
Eff yeah...
Borfo, you are my new hero.
Yeah I bet it rides all wonky considering the fork isn't centered in the wheel...Good times.
Pariah responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.14.10 - 12:31 pm
reply
I rode the sharrows yesterday, and I think they are pretty good. I just hope there's a lot more where they came from.
Velocipede06.14.10 - 1:21 pm
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FUCK ....... CANT RIDE THEM JUST YET BUT I WILL SOON!!!! YEAAAAAAA!!!
louisiana06.14.10 - 1:35 pm
reply
Sharrows are a start and with the terrible track record of the people in charge at city hall who honestly thought they would get it right the first time. All these bikey "advocate" folks who complain are giving the city way too much credit. Let's see how the next set of Sharrows come out but it could be much worse.
Foldie06.14.10 - 2:45 pm
reply
Got to see them this past Friday, after the 2nd Friday Ride. Regardless of the placement or how many they've put up, it was really exciting just to have seen them on the road.
July06.14.10 - 2:54 pm
reply
I was walking home from a friends house last night (YEAH I SAID WALKING) and they put them on the other side of the street now ..
OsnapsonJC06.16.10 - 8:02 am
reply
At first I was pretty skeptical of Soap Box's complaints. As much as I respect him and and his great work, I know he can get lost in the details and quibble over inches (like LAPD bike racks being literally a few inches to close to each other, but still very functional).
And riding the new Sharrows, I was so excited I counldn't think straight.
BUT
when I drove the new sharrows in a car I they suddenly did look a little too far to the right.
Also, as a driver, I didn't particularly find the sharrows very easy to see, and I was looking for them.
Additionally ... whatever they did to treat the surface before laying the sharrows down has left a sort of glare on the pavement, that makes the sharrows even harder to see. I don't know if this glare will fade with time but as for now, I think they are a little sub par.
These sharrows are way better than nothing. If the city and LADOT back down from this program IT WILL MEAN WAR. So the fact that they are down there is good.
We need more and we need better.
We need to channel our efforts so that those of us who have concerns can have them heard by LADOT.
trickmilla06.16.10 - 9:00 am
reply
not sure if someone posted this one already...
http://soapboxla.blogspot.com/2010/06/how-embarrassing-ladot-bikeways.html
Ayla06.16.10 - 11:26 am
reply
I rode the sharrows last night. I thought they were great! I don't see what everyone is complaining about. We just need MUCH MUCH MORE OF THEM!
Joe Borfo06.16.10 - 11:36 am
reply
Borfo..I advise you not to go against the Bike Doucherati else you will be chastised for being anti-bike and pro car....and they will say you lack vision.....
Just sayin....
Foldie responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.16.10 - 11:40 am
reply
I think this is a good point by a commenter -
"Fountain Avenue is an arterial.
Arterials are roads intended to move goods and people.
Explain to me again why we allow free storage of private property (a.k.a. "parking") on an arterial road?
No parking = plenty of space for sharrows or even a Copenhagen style cycle-track."
Joe Borfo06.16.10 - 11:41 am
reply
I completely support Box. He is not a Douche at all.
I'm not complaining about his article. I'm just saying we need to focus on more Sharrows even more vehemently now. That's all.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Foldie
06.16.10 - 11:43 am
reply
Good point but some "Bikey" folks think fountain is a discontinuous side street...which leads me to believe it is not part of their "Ride the Bone" mentality....so in their view fountain is a terrible place for sharrows even though every one rides Fountain.
Foldie responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.16.10 - 11:44 am
reply
Well, I think Fountain is a fast and "secret" thoroughfare through Hollywood. And a good choice for a "starter program" for sharrows.
Put sharrows on every goddamn street. goddammit!
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Foldie
06.16.10 - 12:25 pm
reply
That ridiculous ... I see more people riding on fountain then any other street ... just from me turning off sunset to my house I see at least 6 people going the opposite way
OsnapsonJC responding to a
comment by Foldie
06.16.10 - 1:05 pm
reply
"Well, I think Fountain is a fast and "secret" thoroughfare through Hollywood."
Yes, I do too. I like it and have not had too too much trouble with aggressive or honking cars.
But who the fuck taught these guys to use stencils??? Chareley Barkely would agree that they were done tuurrible. I have almost never seen DOT stencils done bad. Why is it that the one they took a photo of even done tuurrible???
nolikedrive responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.16.10 - 1:22 pm
reply
What we should be doing is with the rules of sharrow placement in mind, start pin pointing spots we all think need a sharrow. I have a particular spot on hollywood blvd. Just east of the 101 fwy exit on the south side of the street where the street narrows suddenly.
Sharrows are pretty cool because as I understand it you can have a single sharrow placed anywhere the specs make sense.
Let's make a google map and start pinpointing spots!
Roadblock06.16.10 - 10:37 pm
reply
Where are the rules of sharrow placement posted?
Can't Sharrows be on any street? Who and what determines where they can and can not be?
Thanks.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.16.10 - 10:56 pm
reply
Well for starters I think Sharrows can't go on streets with "anti-gridlock" lanes that become no stopping during peak hours, because the proper bike position changes depending on the time of day.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.16.10 - 11:41 pm
reply
I was really excited about the sharrows on 4th street, but after 2nd review they are not placed properly. I bike that stretch 3-4 times a day, and the sharrows are placed in such a way that a cyclist will be caught between a door opening and a overzealous motorist passing too closely. I'm super stoked to have spotted them this morning and that their is an attempt to make my route safer, but who do I direct my feedback to, so they can better understand where cyclists need to be and therefore where the sharrows should be?
danceralamode06.17.10 - 12:09 am
reply
So as I understand it these first placements are to study sharrows for the city. How does this integrate into the bicycle master plan? I ask because some cities have had the same issues with sharrows. Inconsistent placement, no signage support and no driver education. Are sharrows the right solution? I know we can't have proper bike lanes on all streets but are sharrows right?
I am not trying to troll but ask legitimate questions of these markings.
Thoughts based on this article from Seattle wa
are sharrows the right solution
MUTCD
Foldie06.17.10 - 12:31 am
reply
Think big picture. We need markings that indicate that bikes belong. Everywhere. There are a LOT of problems with the CBC and MUTD and blah blah. But it's just not gonna fix itself and I'm sick of waiting for things to be "perfect".
I'm finally back from my road trip. I can't wait to see the sharrows!
Roadblock06.17.10 - 12:55 am
reply
I saw a bunch of more paint on the road to indicate future sharrow placement on 4th east of Vermont tonight, which is nice. That is all.
SkeletonKey06.17.10 - 1:02 am
reply
SHARING IS CARING!!!
MAXX06.17.10 - 2:00 am
reply
"sharrows" are supposed indicate a 'sharing' of a lane, if i have understood correctly from examples of other cities.
the ones placed on fountain may be in the form of a sharrow, but is not technically a sharrow because it is not in the drivers lane. i think it may indicate to motorists that bicyclists ride in >> this direction or << that direction, but NOT that they (cyclists) are also entitled to the lane.
essentially, it's a bike lane without the lines that is still too close to the door zone thus still maintaining a segregated space.
meandmybluebike06.17.10 - 3:29 am
reply
Exactly.It seems clear that whoever installed these sharrows did not understand what their actual purpose was.
If it were just a question of a minor detail that would be one thing, but this is a detail that adversely affects the safety of cyclists that are now "invited" to ride in a dangerous, varying position on a narrow road.
Moreover, it's just plain embarrassing. NYC has installed hundreds of miles of bike lanes at this point, and L.A. can't even manage to lay down a single mile of "pilot" bike infrastructure correctly... where's the pride?
angle responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.17.10 - 4:15 am
reply
We rode these on our ride tonight, it was like being in a different city. :D
braydon06.18.10 - 2:22 am
reply
Yes. I agree.
PUT THE SHARROW IN THE CENTER OF THE GODDAMN DRIVING LANE, NOT SLIGHTLY TO THE RIGHT OF IT.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.18.10 - 6:14 am
reply
I rode the sharrows yesterday. I guess they could go a little more to the left but I didn't feel like they were placed all that badly.
Roadblock06.20.10 - 12:27 pm
reply
so are you still satisfied and glad that 'something is better than nothing' in regards to sharrows?
well, read this:
"1) If a motor vehicle traveling in a straight line in the travel lane and a cyclist riding a meandering line of Sharrows placed a consistent distance from the curbline of a variable width street were to collide, the motorist would have right-of-way. Aftert all, the cyclist would be "merging traffic" and would be at fault."
(more info at stephen box's link above.)
meandmybluebike06.21.10 - 11:05 am
reply
yeah I'm still glad....
bottom line is that All you complainers better be on the LADOT's ASS right now and instead of complaining after the fact, make sure to get your voice heard that the next installment of sharrows BE DONE RIGHT.
I already left a message on Box's voicemail that he better call a storm the bastille for the next sharrow painting. I'll be there with a tape measure and ready to call the supervisor if the sharrows are not being placed correctly.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.21.10 - 12:19 pm
reply
it's a GREAT analysis, but it unfortunately comes AFTER THE FACT.
Alex Thompson Stephen Box and all the Bikeside people and all YOU people who have issues with the sharrow placement know more sharrows are on the way. Are all you people going to stand on the sidelines as the rest of the sharrows get placed or are you going to MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD?!
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Foldie
06.21.10 - 12:43 pm
reply
why is it that when people voice an opinion that isn't hunky dory and agreeable, or oppositional to yours, it's 'complaining'? i never understood this about you, roadblock.
why not just stick to the topic and keep it objective?
meandmybluebike06.21.10 - 12:46 pm
reply
ok point taken let's stick to the topic then, what are YOU going to do to make sure the next installment of sharrows is done right?
Roadblock responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.21.10 - 12:49 pm
reply
How could we go about giving the LADOT an installation checklist for sharrows?
A guideline, reviewed by the cycling community, that meets the criteria of proper sharrow placement. Looks like Mr. Box already has this criteria nailed down. Let's ask him to draft the checklist, present it first to the cycling community, and then pass it over to someone who has a better relationship / liaison to the LADOT or whoever it is that actually makes the call on putting the paint on the street.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.21.10 - 12:59 pm
reply
roadblock,
i don't think the point was taken. if it was, i'd recommend reassessing your understanding of the the topic and word 'objective'. this isn't about individuals actions. to me, that is something personal. it doesn't require public display, attention, or demanded acknowledgment of an action, like you often times do.
again, the focus is sharrows because people were asking about opinions of them. i rode them and stated my sentiments.
meandmybluebike06.21.10 - 1:05 pm
reply
you should really consider remaining objective yourself and not assigning a negative connotation to the word "complain." what objective word would you suggest to label an expression of discontent? I will use that to characterize the opionions of the sharrow placement.
dictionary definition of complain is "express grief, pain, or discontent "
you have the right to keep expressing your discontent, but if you do nothing about it then you are just one of those people who complains and does nothing to try to solve the problem. is that too harsh of an assessment for you? I can try to be more objective...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.21.10 - 1:25 pm
reply
I'm just saying, here we have an entity like Bikeside, we have very vocal people like Stephen Box we have the BAC we have a whole chorus of individuals who are not happy with the sharrows.... all of these groups and people have the power to pick up a phone, or email or actually just SHOW UP to the sharrow painting and raise their voices about the placement of the sharrows.... let's actually DO something about it instead of express discontent after the fact. Who do we call? I'm going to email Mowery and Fisher at the LADOT and CC Eric Garcetti and the mayor. how about that? I am willing to show up at the site of the next sharrow painting with a tape measure in hand. I hope everyone expressing discontent does so as well!!
hang tight I'm gonna find out John Fisher's email unless one of you guys has it?
Roadblock06.21.10 - 1:37 pm
reply
Thank you, Roadblock. Can you please list all those email addresses here, when you have them? I have been trying to determine who the best person to write to is (wasn't sure if just emailing Mowery or LADOT would be sufficient), but your idea of one email cc'ing Mayor V and Garcetti is excellent.
danceralamode responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.21.10 - 1:42 pm
reply
finding John Fisher's email is proving difficult.... if anyone has is please post it. I know Alex Thompson and Stephen Box have met with the guy if either of you are reading this lets get this party started.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by danceralamode
06.21.10 - 1:44 pm
reply
roadblock,
how do you know people haven't sent emails, attended meetings, or posted info on their blogs? are you checking the ladot emails now? people don't need to prove or check in with you to receive public acknowledgment of our actions. some people don't need public recognition of their actions at all.
your self-righteous attitude is so off-putting and (whether you realize it or not) alienates people who are helping/trying to help and/or be involved.
you're quite immature and and it's unfortunate.
meandmybluebike responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.21.10 - 1:57 pm
reply
this bike activism stuff is really heating up lately.
Must be the summer heat.
md2 responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.21.10 - 2:49 pm
reply
ok lets say your personal attacks are on the money. fine, glad we got that out in the open. that doesnt change anything on the ground unfortunately. and there is a reason to publicize call to actions... groups do it all the time and I suppose it can come off as self righteous... but it's worth the risk because publicizing helps others who are also discontent to focus their discontent into action.
If all you do is complain, but never take action or help facilitate others to take action then you are one of those people who complains but never does anything... you might well have done something, if you did and are keeping it secret that's your perrogative. Now Annie, If you don't mind I am asking others to focus their complaints on key people. I just got off the phone with Box I will post a possible plan of action for those who want to do more than just complain. So if you could, please Ignore my next few self righteous posts and skip to the "complainers who do nothing and complainers who do not want people to know they did something" section of the thread.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by meandmybluebike
06.21.10 - 2:55 pm
reply
here are the people to contact and email:
John Fisher
Assistant General Manager in charge of Transportation Operations
John.Fisher@lacity.org
Michelle Mowery
Sr. Project Coordinator
Bicycle Planning and Programming
Michelle.Mowery@lacity.org
Antonio Villaraigosa
mayor@lacity.org
Eric Garcetti 13th District
councilmember.garcetti@lacity.org
Dennis Zine 3rd District (likely next sharrow painting spot Reseda and Sherman Way)
councilmember.zine@lacity.org
Aurisha Smolarski
Campaign and Communications Director
Los Angeles County Bicycle Coalition
aurisha@la-bike.org
Box has suggested that Sharrows need to be measured 6-7 feet from the LEFT lane line and not from the curb as has been happening on fountain and fourth street. This will alleviate the "merging into the lane liability" caused by uneven sharrow placement.
Email and CC everyone (copy paste):
councilmember.zine@lacity.org, mayor@lacity.org, Michelle.Mowery@lacity.org, John.Fisher@lacity.org, mayor@lacity.org, aurisha@la-bike.org
The safest way to ride a bike is in a consistent straight line just as cars do! please remember to congratulate the city on painting the sharrows in the first place. don't attack anyone personally, that doesn't help anything, ask for the next round of sharrows to be painted in the correct position. and ask that sharrows be placed correctly and that measuring is done from the left lane marking and not the curb! It should be 6' from that line and there should be adequate signage to accompany the sharrows in order to educate the public as to it's function.
Roadblock06.21.10 - 3:51 pm
reply
Do you think it's john.fisher@lacity.org?
That's what the Cultural Affairs people have...
danceralamode responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.21.10 - 3:53 pm
reply
Next part of the plan....
In addition to emails asking for proper placement, Box and I and hopefully others will be on short call to ride out to the next paint session and monitor the placement of the sharrows tape measures in hand. IF there is any issue we will be there to call the supervisor HNIC or whomever to raise up complaints and stop the presses until proper measurements are used.
The rumor is that the next paint session will be happening on Reseda Blvd. near sherman way. The LADOT appears to be keeping the paint schedule a secret so therefore we all need to be eyes open and vocal at the first sighting of the LADOT paint crew. use twitter facebook and this website and any other means of communication you can to get the word out so we can try to head out there and measure our damn selves and make sure this pilot is successful.
Roadblock06.21.10 - 3:57 pm
reply
Would it be prudent to contact the City council members of the districts in which the sharrows will/are appearing?
LA's pilot Sharrows project:
1) Fountain Ave - Western Ave.to Vermont Ave. --CD 13 - Eric Garcetti
2) Adams Blvd - Vermont Ave to Figueroa St.-- CD 8 Bernard Parks
3) Reseda Blvd - Vanowen St. to Valerio St. --CD 3 Dennis Zine
4) Westholme Ave - Santa Monica Bl to Hilgard Ave. -- CD 5 Paul Koretz
5) 4th St - Wilton Pl to Commonwealth Ave -- CD 4 Tom LaBonge
6) Abbot Kinney Blvd - Venice Blvd to Main Street -- CD 11 Bill Rosendahl
* Please let me know if I got CD info wrong
Here is the website with email addresses :
http://lacity.org/YourGovernment/CityCouncil/index.htm
Foldie06.21.10 - 3:58 pm
reply
copy paste!
paul.koretz@lacity.org, councilmember.parks@lacity.org, councilmember.Labonge@lacity.org, councilman.rosendahl@lacity.org, councilmember.zine@lacity.org, mayor@lacity.org, Michelle.Mowery@lacity.org, John.Fisher@lacity.org, mayor@lacity.org, aurisha@la-bike.org, councilmember.garcetti@lacity.org
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Foldie
06.21.10 - 4:06 pm
reply
Is there any documentation on this Sharrows Program? If it is a pilot project, would they have information on the hows, whens and whys? Tried going through LADOT website but that was a waste of time....is the only authoritative information they publish on their
blog written by an intern?
Foldie responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.21.10 - 4:07 pm
reply
I've ridden the Fountain Av Sharrows four times now. Cars are definitely treating me differently. They slow down and pass cautiously. They drivers aren't angry anymore. If these Sharrows are changing the car drivers habits already, than it has achieved a certain level of success. The Sharrows are a little too far to the right. I think we all need to keep the LADOT's feet to the fire regarding the placement, but it does feel good to finally have paint on the street.
328rides4ever06.21.10 - 4:07 pm
reply
I am relatively near the reseda/sherman way area. its not part of my regular commute, though, so i'm unlikely to be the one to spot and painting going down. I'd be happy to be part of the tape-measure committee, though, if there's enough notice. 818 threethreethreesixninefourfour
I am excited about sharrows. Especially now that I live in the valley. Its so flat here.
lackflag responding to a
comment by Roadblock
06.21.10 - 5:30 pm
reply
Maybe this has already been pointed out elsewhere, but the lousy sharrow placement is also included in the design guidelines of the
draft bike plan (it's on pg.52 of the Technical Design Handbook).
There are components of the plan for which the "recommended" placements are better than the bare minimum, but as you can see, sharrows are not one of them:
-------------------------------
4.3. Shared Lane Marking (SLM)
Design Summary
--------------------
Door Zone Width: The width of the door zone is generally assumed to be 2.5 feet from the edge of the parking lane. Recommended SLM placement: Minimum of 11 feet from edge of curb where on-street parking is present but may be placed more than 11 feet as conditions support. If parking lane is wider than 7’ the SLM should be moved further out accordingly.
Discussion
--------------------
Shared Lane Marking stencils (commonly called “Sharrows”) have been introduced for use in California and may be used as an additional treatment for Class III facilities but are currently only allowed for use in conjunction with on-street parking. The stencil can serve a number of purposes, such as reminding bicyclists to ride further from parked cars to prevent “dooring” collisions, making motorists aware of bicycles potentially in the travel lane, and showing bicyclists the correct direction of travel. The paving marking was adopted for official use by Caltrans in the 2003 California MUTCD.
The 11’ minimum distance from curb shown in the CA MUTCD is based on a 7’ parking stall. Shared lane markings adjacent to an 8’ parking stall may be installed at a minimum of 12’ from centerline to curb. Placing the SLM between vehicle tire tracks (meeting CA MUTCD guidance) may also be considered as it will increase the life of the markings and the long-term cost of maintenance to the treatment.
Guidance
--------------------
• California MUTCD
Minimum Design
-------------------------------
I'm glad that this pilot project is happening around the same time the draft bike plan is getting released. This way, people can get to see what they're dealing with and fight to make the guidelines in the final bike plan better.
nathansnider06.21.10 - 5:56 pm
reply
AWESOME.
Tape measure committee!!!
I sent my email off.
main points are that sharrows need to direct the cyclist in a straight a line as possible.
sharrows need to be placed with regard to measurement from the center of the street or the left line of the occupying lane NOT from the curb which subjects placement to the whims of variable width streets.
sharrows need to be publicized so that drivers understand them
Roadblock responding to a
comment by lackflag
06.21.10 - 5:56 pm
reply
That looks pretty much to me like they do on Fountain. (spacing wise) Am I wrong?
If so, apparently that's a problem for everyone. So, in other words - there are current guideline and they are fucked up and need to change. Si?
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by nathansnider
06.21.10 - 6:06 pm
reply
oops - There is a current guideline that is fucked up and needs to be changed. Yes?
Joe Borfo06.21.10 - 6:07 pm
reply
email(s) sent.
I actually find these calls to action helpful on the grounds that the bikerati tend to attend way more policy meetings than I do, but to each their own. Props for posting the email addresses & props to nathansnider for pointing out the perhaps institutionalized misplacement of sharrows in the LA bike plan draft.
champagne06.22.10 - 9:53 am
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Its not that the guidelines are fucked up but that they are incomplete. They say what the "minimum" distance is for the sharrow from the curb, not where to place the sharrows. It is good to have a minimum distance, because on narrow streets if you are putting the sharrows say six feet to the right of the center line it could be placed in the door zone.
However instead of being used as a minimum the sharrows are all being placed at the minimum distance. There needs to be additional guidance as to the sharrows needing to be a uniform distance from the center line. This is implied in the part which states that you can put the sharrows in between the car tracks to extend sharrow life, but for some reason has not been implemented by LADOT.
gregb responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.22.10 - 10:14 am
reply
"...the part which states that you can put the sharrows in between the car tracks to extend sharrow life"
I think this is a point that needs to be emphasized. Center lane placement is both ideal for bicyclists, and makes for an easy to follow guideline for painters.
lackflag responding to a
comment by gregb
06.22.10 - 12:45 pm
reply
You guys are posting GREAT comments... Please email that list an let the politicians and key people know we are watching them.
Roadblock06.22.10 - 1:01 pm
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Yes, one of the sharrows on 4th Street has already been ground to hell because of misplacement. There was a pile of paint chips where the sharrow was this morning. Going to try and grab a pic of it tonight on the way home and include it in my email tonight.
danceralamode responding to a
comment by lackflag
06.22.10 - 1:20 pm
reply
Hello-
I am excited to see that sharrows are being painted on Los Angeles City Streets. I think they are a great way to make Los Angeles a more bike friendly place.
I am writing because I think the guidelines for sharrow placement may be less than perfect. Quite simply, I think the guidelines should mandate that Sharrows be painted in the center of the lane, in between tire tracks. Center lane placement is included in the current guidelines, but it is not mandatory. The current suggested placement puts the sharrow more to the right, probably because that is where cyclists tend to ride when there is a lot of motor vehicle traffic. However, that placement puts the sharrow in a position where it is likely to be most often under vehicle tire tracks, therefore reducing the life of the marking, increasing cost and reducing effectiveness. Center lane marking also has the added benefit of sending a clear signal to motorists that bicycles have a right to the road as well, which may carry over to scenarios in which sharrows are not present.
I am really excited to see the city working to become a more bike friendly place. Riding a bike rather than driving is one of the most effective tools we have to reduce energy use, and reducing energy use is the most effective means we have of making the world a better place. Ride on!
lackflag responding to a
comment by danceralamode
06.22.10 - 1:53 pm
reply
I assume everyone else is getting this email from Mowery (6/22 5:24 PM), but here it is in case you haven't seen it:
Thank you for your interest in the City of Los Angeles Department of
Transportation’s Shared Lane Marking (SLM or Sharrow) Study. As you
may know LADOT has been working on this project for many months now in
conjunction with our partners, SCAG, Council District 13, the Mayor’s
Office and the Los Angeles County Bicycle Coalition. Much of the work
done to date includes field review and pre-engineering for the pilot
project in order to determine where and how to best use the SLM in Los
Angeles as well as data collection prior to installing the marking.
The installation of the Sharrow in California is dictated by the
standards set by the California Manual of Uniform Traffic Control
Devices (CA MUTCD) which requires that the marking be installed only on
streets where there is on-street parking and be placed at a minimum of
“11 feet from the curb face…” In the pre-engineering phase of
the project it was determined by LADOT engineering staff that the
State’s minimum requirement for the placement of the SLM of 11 feet
was too close to the doors of parked cars. It was also noted that it
might be best to move the marking out to 12.5 or 13 feet based on the
overall curb lane width and the travel patterns of the roadway. It was
determined that for the purposes of the pilot project the Department
would install the marking at 12 feet, collect and analyze the data, and
determine under what conditions the marking is best used and placed in
Los Angeles in any future applications.
Again, thank you for your support of the use of the Shared Lane Marking
in Los Angeles. We are looking forward to completing the pilot project
and developing recommendations based on the data for the Sharrows in Los
Angeles.
Michelle Mowery
Sr. Project Coordinator
Bicycle Planning and Programming
City of Los Angeles
Department of Transportation
100 S. Main Street, 9th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90012
(213) 972-4962 - PH
(213) 972-4919 - FX
Mail Stop 753
www.bicyclela.org
champagne06.22.10 - 9:16 pm
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strangely familiar....
regardless, keep the pressure on.
KEY POINTS:
Sharrows as recommended by the Bike Plan itself should be out of the tire tracks of cars.
Sharrows should be positioned in a straight line as possible not zig zagged
Sharrows positions should be measured from center line of the street not from the curb
Roadblock responding to a
comment by champagne
06.22.10 - 9:43 pm
reply
I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to steal some of your language here for my own email. Thanks for posting a template!
danceralamode responding to a
comment by lackflag
06.22.10 - 10:03 pm
reply
You see! Meowery ain't so bad now. Eh?
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by champagne
06.23.10 - 1:26 am
reply
I'm just sorry I missed Glendale, Long Beach & Berkeley seceding from CA, so they wouldn't be hamstrung by CA code in Sharrows placement like Los Angeles is.
But, hey, CC your city council reps and you can get the Mowery form letter, too.
Zoom whee....
champagne responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
06.23.10 - 9:49 am
reply
This is excellent news!
minimum of “11 feet from the curb face…"
1) the CA-MUTCD clearly does not give a maximum for the sharrow placement.
so if LA determines by popular demand that 12 or 13 feet is better or that measuring from the center lane as long at it is with n the range of the minimum distance it IS legally possible.
I am also heartened to hear the language that this is a Pilot.
it MUST be within their budget to fix them and place them properly once the pilot period is over.
This is a pilot program. So there is plenty of time to do this right.
RIDE THE SHARROWS
TAKE NOTES
THEN MAKE CONTACT!
Sharrow ride / grass roots sharrow placemnt study?
trickmilla responding to a
comment by champagne
06.23.10 - 10:58 am
reply
steal away, dancer.
gonna ride me some sharrows tonight.
lackflag responding to a
comment by Foldie
06.23.10 - 5:13 pm
reply
Since I live in the area of fountain where the sharrows are I walk to and from a buddies house and notice a lot of people still ride extremely (door zone) close on the street... Even with the sharrows...
OsnapsonJC06.23.10 - 9:02 pm
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I saw the reseda sharrows! I'll ride them tomorrow. Now how do cars have any damn clue what the hell the sharrow symbol means? Like really?
thegodofthor06.23.10 - 10:08 pm
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I just rode the Reseda sharrows and they are pretty sweet. I'd like to see them on every major street in the valley.
Issues:
Placement seems fine. The only potential problem I see is shortened life of the markings from being in the tire track.
Size. They seem small.
thegodofthor has a valid point. Solution? Lobby the DMV and have the sharrow design placed in drivers manuals and licensing tests.
Bottom line, I don't really see any big issues, except for getting these things painted everywhere.
lackflag responding to a
comment by thegodofthor
06.23.10 - 10:32 pm
reply
I'm not for graffiti at all...but has anyone thought about painting sharrows during the cover of night?
At the very least it would make them a little more public. Imagine a sharrow on hollywood and highland...rodeo and wilshire...downtown...etc.
Will this comment come back to haunt me? Probably. Do I support tagging? No but I do think that painting sharrows where we need them isn't defacing public or private property and serves a purpose.
Pariah06.24.10 - 10:05 am
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I saw Roadblock riding the fountain sharrows last night .. I looked down ... looked up and he was gone ...
OsnapsonJC06.24.10 - 10:21 am
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Guerilla Sharrows have already been painted on streets prior to this city pilot project. Although the city is moving painfully slowly, having city-painted Sharrows is one infinitesimal step toward the city creating bike infrastructure.
champagne responding to a
comment by Pariah
06.24.10 - 10:27 am
reply
Learn from the best in Portland, OR.
New blog post:
Video from yesterday's 'Transport Your Activism' Ride
bit.ly/aWr6rF
Joe Borfo06.24.10 - 2:04 pm
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I rode the Reseda Blvd. sharrows. I like the placement. there is one place heading north just past the bike shop where since the lane shifts it looks like cyclists should ride into the cars, but other then that, they are great.
I did have a woman try to right hook me but since I was taking the lane she stopped and thought twice about having a 240lbs man fall onto her expensive car.
It was sad to see people riding the side walk even with the sharrows, but I guess maybe they will get the clue as they see them used more. I will try and ride that sharrow as much as possible.
When do we get more!
thegodofthor06.24.10 - 3:42 pm
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I think complaining is just as important as taking action, obviously it's good to do an equal amount of both. When the NIMBYs and the narrow-minded fat-ass out of shape drivers show up to City Council meetings, that's exactly what they do when a pro-bike topic shows up. COMPLAIN. As long as they complain louder than us, they'll keep winning. We just have to complain louder than them, and in larger numbers than them. Closed mouths don't get fed.
LA is a shithole largely due to cars and the last couple of generations of apathetic people who kept caving in to the car lobby. All of LA's flavor and history is pretty much outweighed by how much it sucks to get across town. We should be complaining about the shitty things are as often as possible.
- Complain, as loudly as possible
-Email / call / annoy those city employees that are supposed to be looking out for us
- Go to public meeting in large groups and take up your 2 minutes of public speaking time
- Complain again
- Paint the shit out of these streets, preferably with high-grade white paint
- Repeat until the car lobby in Los Angeles falls apart at the seams
jericho1ne responding to a
comment by lackflag
07.8.10 - 1:19 am
reply
We finally have sharrows on Fountain and 4th. Great. Keep on pushing them to connect them, extend them end-to-end. Next step on Fountain is signage where it breaks up and you have to drop down a block to continue on. Next step after than is making it a bike boulevard in a couple of years because you know the overflow of traffic from Sunset turns Fountain into a clusterfuck.
Just a reminder to always have high standards, even though the City of LA has been aiming low for quite a while now. Ask for the friggin' sky.
Tell them in
Copenhagen they have priority greens and synchronized lights so bikes traveling a constant 20mph never hit a red. They have frickin' foot and hand rails at stop lights! I'll move to Copenhagen and never have to track stand again!
jericho1ne07.8.10 - 1:47 am
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Ridazz Roulette!
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