METRO MAKES ME SAD
Thread started by
Antranik at 08.16.10 - 2:00 am
So it's Friday night, or Saturday night... and you want to bike to your favorite midnight ridazz ride... or.. to some party...
And you need to take the orange line or the red line or the gold line or the blue line or the future expo line (woo expo line!)... any one of those awesome lines that take you across the city really easily so you only need to bike like 10-15 miles instead of 30 or so... GREAT. AWESOME, LET'S DO THIS.
But wait. Wait wait wait. I can't do that.
The ride or party I'm going to be on will be going well beyond midnight most definitely... and all the trains are shut down by 12-ish....
DAMN IT. I don't want to bike up the sepulveda or cahuenga pass or any god damn pass at 3am in the morning because the subway is closed, grrrrrrr!
What in the shit is this.
LA has such a robust night life... yet the major lines all shut down even before the clubs and bars close down at 2am. People walk out all drunk and of course what do they do? They go in their cars, because there was no other option for them anyway! (Would you leave your car in hollywood and pay a taxi to take you home? lol)
The metro system really needs to run all night (even if the trains run only once every half hour, it's better than nothing)... or run at least until 2am!
What is this 1230am BS? I hate having to bounce from somewhere prematurely, like it's some sort of abnormal punishment for choosing to have biked to the party, and mashing my brains out to try to catch the last train. And then lo and behold I already missed it because LIFE happened and I missed it by a few minutes. Great.
I know the mayor wants to dramatically reduce our smog use, and to do that we need to rely less on our cars....but how will we be able to do if our public transport doesn't support a city with such a hustling and bustling night life?
Who even has the power to change these things? And how can we get our voice out to those people? Unless those people party at night and don't drive a car, they are probably oblivious to these issues.
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agree...metro trains should run 24hrs...specially from hollywood to the valley.
Huey55508.16.10 - 2:12 am
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what's funny is they have those on-car advertisements for the metro, posters talking about taking the metro out to ktown for dinner, show, karaoke, etc. yeah, right.
tfunk40808.16.10 - 2:48 am
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Some would say it's attributable to funding, yet more money is being printed and earmarked for the relentless construction add-ons of the freeway system.
Seems like fares and 1/2 cent taxes on various things are doing relatively little to hop certain things into gear.
In the meantime, the only other alternative to boning out early would be to form a "circle" and fall back to a quiet area until trains are running again.
If work the next day, gather the same group and do a paved roll into the Valley.
bentstrider08.16.10 - 3:46 am
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Just RAGE all night and go to the train again at 4 am when they open.
Troya_1308.16.10 - 4:16 am
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Just do it.........
You're missing the best part of the ride going home over the pass.
Dedicated81808.16.10 - 4:42 am
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In all fairness,
as much as I loved it when Metro went late night during the holidays a few years back, I don't know of any subway systems that regularly operate after 1 am: NYC, SF, Rome, Mexico City, Osaka ... every train system I have been on shuts down around midnight or 1am.
trickmilla08.16.10 - 6:52 am
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HELL YEAHHH!!! Then hitting up jack in the box @ 3am
sancho1 responding to a
comment by Dedicated818
08.16.10 - 6:53 am
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"In all fairness,
as much as I loved it when Metro went late night during the holidays a few years back, I don't know of any subway systems that regularly operate after 1 am: NYC, SF, Rome, Mexico City, Osaka ... every train system I have been on shuts down around midnight or 1am."
Not true... I've waited for a NYC subway piss drunk around 3am... I know they run 24/7.. I just had to wait like 20-30 minutes for it to arrive.
And again, in all fairness, the train systems that shut down around midnight are all doing it wrong. We need to step up our standards and go ahead of everyone.
(But HOW?)
Antranik responding to a
comment by trickmilla
08.16.10 - 8:09 am
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I feel you on this ... I remember biking all the time alone from DTLA at like 3am over the pass back to the 818 because of the subway.. so I did the smartest thing ever .... I moved to the other side of the hill ....
OsnapsonJC08.16.10 - 8:25 am
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there are 24 hours buses you just got to do some research.
http://www.metro.net/around/timetables/24-hour/
818rider08.16.10 - 8:47 am
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I'm sure that if more people PAYED for the metro EVERYTIME they used it (as opposed to sporadically or never) I'm sure that it'd be easier for them to operate round the clock. Why do you think the fee went up? So those of us who pay daily cover the thousands who don't. The point is, the honor system obviously doesn't work. I'm sure you already pay the $1.50, but maybe try to convince everyone else to pay the $1.50 (just a lil less then a Tecate) as well.
Gizzard responding to a
comment by bentstrider
08.16.10 - 8:50 am
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Thanks 818rider,
nice link.
I still think the subways should run though... why?
Because I've flagged a bus down at 4am, and I was with 2 other friends, and the front rack only had space for 2 bicycles.
Even though the bus was almost empty (had 1 or 2 people in there), he REFUSED to let one of us put the bicycle inside the bus and kept talking like a robot back to me about how it's against the rules to let bicycles on board and how he will get in trouble if he does, no matter how much we pleaded. That stuff pissed me off SO hard, that bus wasn't even going to take me all the way home but it was going to cut down like 4 miles and I was so tired I just wanted to get on it. All too often it seems like standard humaneness is eclipsed by stupidity..
Antranik responding to a
comment by 818rider
08.16.10 - 9:01 am
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While not being allowed to take your bike on the bus is frustrating, you should remember that that bus driver could lose his job over violating the rules. The rules suck, but the bus driver was looking out for his livelihood.
I think Tokyo, Berlin, and NYC are the only 24hr subway systems in the world. It would be nice if the Metro only ran one train car in the late hours or at least a night owl bus along the metro routes without bike restrictions.
Blame Arnold for stealing half of Metro's operating revenue sources.
SkeletonKey responding to a
comment by Antranik
08.16.10 - 9:20 am
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"It would be nice if the Metro only ran one train car in the late hours or at least a night owl bus along the metro routes without bike restrictions. "
^ That's an awesome compromise! ^
Antranik responding to a
comment by SkeletonKey
08.16.10 - 9:24 am
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Along with free public health care, free public education through college, and free libraries, a civil society that respects its citizens should have free intra-city public transit.
According to the metro itself, fare evasion is very low: only 3-5% So 95 to 97% of all riders do pay their fare.
http://www.metro.net/board/Items/2010/04_April/20100415OPItem50.pdf
gregb responding to a
comment by Gizzard
08.16.10 - 9:49 am
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that's interesting, thanks for sharing, i wasn't aware. maybe you can help me further understand how data was gathered, because it doesn't quite say. I'm wondering if they only used the number of people CAUGHT evading fare to create that percentage.
Gizzard responding to a
comment by gregb
08.16.10 - 10:09 am
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"According to the metro itself, fare evasion is very low: only 3-5% So 95 to 97% of all riders do pay their fare."
95 to 97% of all RIDERS... NOT 95 to 97% of all RIDAZZ. :D
I always pay the fare myself. The ride is totally worth it.
Agreed with the original point, though. It sucks to have to watch the clock and bone out early to make the train.
petr0lb0mb responding to a
comment by gregb
08.16.10 - 10:24 am
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I guess there's more penny-pinchers out there than once thought.
"No money for the train, but some cheap booze or a pack-of-gum to stave off the nicotine habit is too high on the priority list!!!"
It all boils down to shit management of money at all levels.
Make a budget, stick to it, and be fuckin' happy in the long run.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by Gizzard
08.16.10 - 10:24 am
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Blame Arnold for stealing half of Metro's operating revenue sources.
You could blame the neanderthals in the CCPOA and like-groups for making that happen.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by SkeletonKey
08.16.10 - 10:27 am
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I'm unfamiliar with that group; am I correct to infer that because of our over crowded prisons and their budget problems, sales and gas tax revenue that was supposed to go metro went to the prisons?
In regards to the "honor system," I met a woman the other night on the train whose job it was to get ridership counts for the last train of the evening. She told me that Metro was looking to see how many riders were utilizing late night service to possibly recommend extending weekend hours a wee bit. She also said that if Metro ever gets there shit together to install working turnstiles/TAP cards (like in every other major US subway), she wouldn't have to work the late shift on a Saturday physically counting and costing the company a bunch of overtime pay.
SkeletonKey responding to a
comment by bentstrider
08.16.10 - 10:58 am
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That's exactly what i was thinking! i thought most of the other major metro cities had turnstiles or actual toll collectors (maybe that's a bit outdated, but i remember seeing them 10 years ago) to ensure that fare is being paid.
But along with the budget problems, i'm sure the money isn't being properly distributed towards metro considering that LA is a "car city". Leave it up to LA to build Millions AND MILLIONS on a metro that only circulates on the east side and doesnt run all night. blah...
Gizzard responding to a
comment by SkeletonKey
08.16.10 - 11:05 am
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Where's that picture of someone pointing at their monitor and crying you always post? I want to post it at you. Please go away.
gregb responding to a
comment by ruinedbyidiots
08.16.10 - 11:07 am
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Talk about a derail. Your persistant negative attitude is the problem in this thread.
gregb responding to a
comment by ruinedbyidiots
08.16.10 - 11:15 am
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On page 14 of that memo I posted it states that fare evasion info is based on percentage of riders who do have a valid ticket when the Sheriff's department do their sweeps.
gregb responding to a
comment by Gizzard
08.16.10 - 11:21 am
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Metro is installing turnstiles:
http://www.metro.net/news/Simple_PR/metro-installing-turnstile/
According to the metro's figuers it will cost $40 million dollars to implemenent and run the turnstiles.
They will bring in only $2 million extra in fares per year.
As a revenue enhancer, adding turnstiles doesn't make sense.
gregb responding to a
comment by Gizzard
08.16.10 - 11:23 am
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Whoops.
$2 million is the increase in yearly fares due to increasing fares from $1.25 to $1.5
$5 million is the increase supposed to be brought in by the new turnstiles.
gregb08.16.10 - 11:25 am
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as i said, that's only a percentage of those who were caught. but i guess that's the reason why there's been an increase in cops at the metro station.
one VERY interesting thing from the article was:
"Metro is the only subway operator in the country to operate a barrier-free “proof of payment” system where fares are randomly checked by civilian fare inspectors and Sheriff’s officers"
Ps. where did you get the quote for the turnstiles? is that 40 mil must be a one time thing, and i'm wondering if those funds are purely from metro fare or does that include city or state funding? it doesnt seem too bad if so. then again i haven't pulled out my accounting calculator yet.
Gizzard responding to a
comment by gregb
08.16.10 - 11:52 am
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http://www.metro.net/news/simple_pr/metro-022808/
A 10 year 46 million dollar lease for the turnstiles. Not sure if they can take them back after the ten years...
gregb responding to a
comment by Gizzard
08.16.10 - 11:55 am
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I can't believe it costs 40 million to install turnstiles.
While it might not be a revenue enhancer, having turnstiles will be greatly effective to get more people using TAP. the result should be free bus to metro transfers and line to line transfers. Won't it also save money from reducing the need to staff extra sheriffs for fare enforcement sweeps?
I find it funny that they need to teach people how to go through turnstile. Its really not rocket science. Whose never been through one before?
SkeletonKey responding to a
comment by gregb
08.16.10 - 12:00 pm
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While LA might be the only one in the country without turnstiles, that makes it an international city!
Many cities in Germany do not have turnstiles in their subways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_U-Bahn#Tickets
Also, here's a link to wikipedia's page on free public transport which includes a list with over 20 town/cities worldwide with free public transport:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_public_transport
gregb responding to a
comment by Gizzard
08.16.10 - 12:05 pm
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I guess it was cheaper to lease then buy outright. I doubt that the turnstiles will be removed after 10 years of use. Metro will probably buy them outright afterward.
SkeletonKey responding to a
comment by gregb
08.16.10 - 12:07 pm
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Free transit would be amazing, but LA's too large and public transit made too expensive for that to ever be a reality unless we have a major paradigm shift in CA. Maybe if we had toll roads and congestion pricing we'd have more money for Metro.
SkeletonKey responding to a
comment by gregb
08.16.10 - 12:11 pm
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"LA has such a robust night life... yet the major lines all shut down even before the clubs and bars close down at 2am. People walk out all drunk and of course what do they do? They go in their cars, because there was no other option for them anyway! (Would you leave your car in hollywood and pay a taxi to take you home? lol)
The metro system really needs to run all night (even if the trains run only once every half hour, it's better than nothing)... or run at least until 2am!"
I agree, once every half hour til the normal morning hours. I think that it would save a lot of people being killed in drunk driving accidents. It's really a no-brainer.
Girl Power08.16.10 - 12:12 pm
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Those damn Germans and their Free public transportation and Free healthcare.... I'm sorry but LA doesnt come close to an international city :( /fail.....
dont get me wrong, i would LOVE to not have to pay for the metro. hopefully that comes soon after we get universal health care! :)
Gizzard responding to a
comment by gregb
08.16.10 - 12:17 pm
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There was a lot of discussion of this over 2 years ago. Its in the la.streetsblog.org archives. LA Citybeat covered it as well; unfortunately they have died and their archives have disappeared.
http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/02/28/turnstiles-needed-to-protect-us-from-terrorists/
http://laist.com/2008/02/28/30_million_80_m.php
Also TAP might not result in free transfers but rather paying more depending on your destination. In Washington DC to use the subway you pay between $1.75 and $4.60 one way depending on distance travelled.
gregb responding to a
comment by SkeletonKey
08.16.10 - 12:18 pm
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Public transit makes me sad. Health care makes me sad. The legal system makes me sad. The food industry makes me sad. The entertainment industry makes me sad. The internet makes me sad. Pretty much the sum total of contemporary American life makes me sad.
Kittens are cute:
theroyalacademy responding to a
comment by SkeletonKey
08.16.10 - 12:20 pm
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You are right, a paradigm shift is what we need.
From http://www.metro.net/board/Items/2010/04_April/20100415OPItem50.pdf
page 11:
"Metro riders only pay 58 cents per boarding due to substantial discounts for seniors,
students, disabled and pass users. Fares cover just 24 percent of Metro's operating costs. The remaining 76 percent is subsidized by taxpayers. If the Metro Board adopts the proposed fare changes, the average fare will still only be 86 cents. This means that L.A. County taxpayers who voted for local sales taxes intended not just for public transportation but also for street and highway improvements that benefit the vast majority of county residents are getting shortchanged. Metro's massive operating deficit is siphoning monies that could be leveraged with other state and federal funds to fast track critical relief for our congested highways as well as the bus and rail system."
Whoever wrote this and whoever believes this is part of the problem. Increasing bus and rail system funding benefits everyone in LA County, not just those who use it.
You are right we need metro to understand that we need to lower the subsidies for car drivers and increase the subsidies for alternatives and it will improve the lives of all LA residents by decreasing transit times, decreasing pollution, and increasing quality of life. Somehow those in charge at metro still don't see this. We do need a paradigm change!
gregb responding to a
comment by SkeletonKey
08.16.10 - 12:30 pm
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Yeah expecially with LA now closing the libraries on Sundays and Mondays. Man. We can dream though and we can plan and we can act. Hopefully the Mayor's meeting this morning went well.
gregb responding to a
comment by Gizzard
08.16.10 - 12:35 pm
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that quote makes me sad and angry and no amount of kittens will change that (cute puppies, on the other hand...)
Fares are pretty low here (compared to NYC, Boston, and DC), but drivers PAY NOTHING out of pocket for highway construction and repairs. Meanwhile metro riders pay tax and out of pocket travel expenses.
SkeletonKey responding to a
comment by gregb
08.16.10 - 12:52 pm
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but drivers PAY NOTHING out of pocket for highway construction and repairs
rethink this.
ruinedbyidiots responding to a
comment by SkeletonKey
08.16.10 - 12:54 pm
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The sad thing is that even with tolls, highways don't pay for themselves. NJ initiated tolls in the 1950s on the turnpike and garden state parkway and they still have not paid off the initial construction costs.
SkeletonKey08.16.10 - 12:58 pm
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I agree its totally whack they dont have late subway service. From what i've read its cuz the taxicab union doesnt want to lose all those late nite fares (same reason it took em forever to get the LAX stop on the greenline). Its over $20 bucks to go over cahuenga. RBI doesnt care cuz he has nowhere to be past midnight on the weekend, haha
JOKER08.16.10 - 1:06 pm
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Also i truly believe they could offset the labor costs of running a coupla late trains friday and saturday nites by selling some ad space instead of their own promos at the stations and trains.
JOKER08.16.10 - 1:09 pm
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And maybe its because cleaning the puke from the subways isn't worth the $1.50.
The taxi thing makes some sense--limo/taxi companies made JFK impossible to get to via public transit as well. And the greenline is still a shuttle ride away from LAX
gregb responding to a
comment by JOKER
08.16.10 - 1:12 pm
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rethink this.
A normal driver doing a normal commute gets in his car, drives to work, parks his car, all without spending any money or showing a paper to anyone. He doesn't have to fill up his car with gas except once a week. He doesn't have to pay for parking. As long as he doesn't break the law he doesn't have to prove anything.
A normal transit rider has to come up with $1.50 every time he wants to change busses, or be forced to show proof of purchase of a pass.
So yes the normal commuter pays nothing out of pocket on a daily basis for his commute.
gregb responding to a
comment by ruinedbyidiots
08.16.10 - 1:22 pm
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Good point about the puke. Ive done the ride back several times, even on my tallbike, totally slithered. It was not fun. The bus thing is weak cuz they only have 2or 3 bike slots, which aint enuff for me n my crew. If they could just run a couple trains just a lil later, i think it would really open up some major late nite rides on both sides of the hill, that we could all go to. But at least they made some subway progress by removing a few rows of seats for bikes. I remember when they did that, that was cool.
JOKER08.16.10 - 1:26 pm
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MTA makes money off tax dollars and federal grants, I mean 100 riders is only $150 so its not like fares really do much for them. As I understand it they operate at a deficit anyway.
JOKER responding to a
comment by gregb
08.16.10 - 1:34 pm
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Even though car drivers have to pay gas tax and registration and insurance and sometimes tolls and parking fees, it still doesn't come close to paying for the infrastructure required for the cars being driven. That is made up to a large degree by property taxes and federal funds which come from income and payroll taxes. This is not understood by the majority of people in our society.
This doesn't even take into account health costs from the use of cars nor environmental costs from the extraction and production of gasoline.
The point is that there are hidden subsidies for cars which are not talked about nor known. As a car driver, you don't pay your share. However you make fun of transit for needing subsidies without realizing that you are getting subsidies as well. (this is not directed at you personally)
As a society we need to realize that giving subisides to public transportation makes sense for society as a whole, while giving hidden subsidies to private transportation doesn't.
gregb responding to a
comment by JOKER
08.16.10 - 1:44 pm
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And you are right fares don't really do much for them. So why have fares at all?
gregb responding to a
comment by JOKER
08.16.10 - 1:46 pm
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I totally agree with the last paragraph of yer second to last response. The reason they charge cash for fares, despite the low revenue, is becuz they dont have turnstiles that can accept weed or sexually grope an individual. Remember the holiest rule of transportation: Ass, Grass or Cash, nobody rides for free!
JOKER08.16.10 - 2:21 pm
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metro does suck they cut lines and raise prices man
we need to do something........i have many things in mind to get our point across.....roaming blockade anyone?
resist62608.16.10 - 2:30 pm
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simple solution. STOP GETTING DRUNK ON RIDES!!! This way you'll be able to get home as late as you want without complaining about going over a little hill.
QUITYERBELLYAKINGYOUPANSIES!!!!
sancho108.16.10 - 3:15 pm
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Actually that bus driver was WRONG. The MTA bus driver rules allow bus drivers to use their discretion in off-peak hours to let cyclists bring their bikes on board. Next time one of them tells you that, call him on it, take down his name, route, and bus #, and report him.
danceralamode responding to a
comment by SkeletonKey
08.16.10 - 3:42 pm
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for change to happen we need policy makers...someone, or some group/organization that can focus their energy on putting on a ballot, or raising money, so that the city funnels more money into the metro running 24 hours. I'm from Oakland and BART is the same thing (with few exceptions, like new years, or big protests and such)...regardless, the city needs to see that it is wanted, and more importantly NECESSARY for the city to be 'up and coming' blah blah.
If folks really want this to happen, there needs to be organization...I don't know if there are groups out there already doing stuff like this...
quien sabe!
oaklangeles08.16.10 - 4:26 pm
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Obama's L.A. visit making my 40-minute bus commute take an hour and a half this evening makes me sad.
theroyalacademy08.16.10 - 7:41 pm
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Pensions and entitlements at all levels and departments, different municipalities as well(City of Bell anyone?).
Locally produced tax-revenue usually gets routed to the dreaded FTB in Sac and from there it's final fate is decided.
I'm a personal believer in saving your money and having kids IF you intend on getting old.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by SkeletonKey
08.16.10 - 11:15 pm
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I got a better idea. Why don't you kids go home if it's getting late? The train leaves plenty of time for you guys to get home. Only people out looking for trouble are out after 12 am. Stay out late and risk getting tazzed............. if you're lucky!
Officer Friendly08.17.10 - 9:39 am
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obvious troll is obvious
Antranik responding to a
comment by Officer Friendly
08.17.10 - 10:28 am
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I sent an email to metro.net explaining how i did in the OP about how a line that runs much later or all night is beneficial to tons of people and I got this generic-ass response, naturally.
From: Customer Relations
Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 10:24:36 AM
Available funding and customer demand are the driving forces that determine the level and frequency of service.
Antranik
08.19.10 - 12:30 pm
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Yes, Los Angeles public transportation infrastructure sucks...
AestheticMynd08.20.10 - 1:55 am
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they dont want our lives to be easier they want us to be constantly stressed, and if people were able to train home drunk they would lose out on all the money they make off of impound fees and everything that is incurred by drunken drivers. sure its not illegal to drink all you can before two but then they give you half hour to fifteen minutes and they kick you out, many times way too drunk to be out in public anyway.
metalduane08.20.10 - 10:15 am
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That's one of the benefits of being in LE. We drink at the Police Academy bar till the sun comes up if want. We just got to remember to take 4 wheels and not 2. Something those fools failed to tell Officer Ken Aragon!!! Man that gets my blood boiling every time I think about that!
Officer Friendly08.20.10 - 11:57 am
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Ridazz Roulette!
oh you mean this?