NOTE: All timestamps are in the future because WE are in the future. The care takers of Midnight Ridazz.com reserves the right to remove, edit, move or delete anything for any reason. None of the opinions expressed on these boards represent the Midnight Ridazz nor can anyone purport to speak on behalf of Midnight Ridazz.
We shouldn't have been stopping so much.
I spoke to lapd and asked them why they weren't corking and they
told me it was the ride leaders choice to stop and wait.
If we stop that much then the whole block would be full and then we'd have riders going on the left lane because there's nowhere else to go.
Keep pedaling dood!
bratha
we spoke after the ride you know how i feel about the stops and the cops.....but you know what sir you are doing a bang up job....buddy....keep up the good work.....AND REMEMBER KIDZ ITS ALL AKTIVEZ FAULT
Thank You Aktive, this was my first LACM, I went to last weeks crank mob. I enjoyed this ride so much more. The police bike riders make a big differnce. Its like the are part of the ride. Lots of them would talk and just try to get along with us. the stop seem to take too much time (native get restless) I see alot of critizing the cops,but the only time I saw them giving tickets was if you crossed the center lane, and ignored them telling you to move right. Several kids would be smoking ,the cops saw them also,but did not bother to say anything. Thanks again.
The ride was so big, it was a miracle you kept it together. All I can say is, good job!
Less narrow streets next time, but the girls on this ride were HOT! It was worth stopping for the red lights. LACM IS THE SHIT!
aktive it was all good the only thing that sucked were not going to the west, not pissing cars off, and there was too many stops, the worst route ever! other than that it was all good!
The only "bad" thing is how the ride was fractured in many, many little rides(LAPD did this on purpose I believe) other than that, ride was awesome!.
If you were given a citation, there's a very plain reason for that, You were acting like a FOOL!,stop buying into that anarchy crap, you will conform to the rules sonner or later.
aktive_420
I know one of the goals of mr and lacm is to help get good pr ,you got it out of this ride.
Im not good at pulling video and posting on this site, but if you go to abc new la and nbc, they both did positve coverage of the ride last nite.
thanks again.
Last night was fun !!! i stayed with the pack only till the 1st stop in china town. after that me and a couple of friends hustles around hollywood a couple of more hours before going home from a good night sleep. i saw ridazz everywhere going in every direction all all night ... LACM was fun ... thanx
Last night was fun !!! i stayed with the pack only till the 1st stop in china town. after that me and a couple of friends hustles around hollywood a couple of more hours before going home from a good night sleep. i saw ridazz everywhere going in every direction all all night ... LACM was fun ... thanx
Actually we got fractured into many groups because we stopped at red lights. We still caused traffic, more so than if we had stayed in one large group.
It was fun, because once we got downtown, there were like five groups of 200 or 300 riding different streets and we never got lost because we could always find the larger group somewhere. People used cell phones and text messages to stay in touch with the larger group. People were happy riding the streets, it was like we controlled large swaths of streets, four or five different blocks, Instead of one long line of 1500 bikes.
Loved the ride around LA Live and Staples Center. Loved the girls running out from the DTLA bars and handing us their phone numbers. I guess a guy on a bike is a better catch than the guy sitting next to you sipping a beer with a set of car keys. Hey, we got stamina!
Yeah some idiots didn't listen to the cops, and the cops were really nice and tolerant last night. The cops didn't want to give out tickets. They kept saying, "stay to right, stop at the lights." They weren't being dicks about it, they were being cool. Yet some people had to test them. Well you only get a few chances in life, then you get popped.
If this is what it takes to remove the idiot people from this ride, so be it. The vast majority, including the hundreds of girls, loved this ride. Keep on riding!
I didn't think the ride AROUND la live/nokia was necessary. we ended up walking our bikes and also i think it was union. we were stopped in the street for a few minutes. there was a police car up front in one of our lanes but nevertheless, i had a good time.
Given that the ride is attracting 1000s of riders now it seems like ride leaders should try to stay on larger streets. When we turned onto Union last night people were cracking jokes about critical walk and critical molasses as we inched along.
It seemed like as we broke up into smaller groups downtown that I saw more riders being pulled over--some for what seemed like running a red light. I wish the cops would either cork or not cork because when it's mixed there is a lot more confusion about what to do at intersections.
There were some confusing moments when the cops would be right there and the light would go red, weather the mass should go through. If the police were keeping an eye out for us or on us.
These uncertain situations can be dangerous, because there is no clear indication if people should stop or go.
That type of indecision and confusion increases the chances of crashing as people are forced to take a sudden decision one way or the other.
Female energy is needed in this community. Slow safe
Law abiding rides bring out the cool ladies on their cheap mtbs. Don't be bike snobs. The more ppl out on l.a. Roads the better it is for *all* of us night riders.
Let them enjoy good night weather and light exercize too.
You wanna ride fast go on spandex/lycra rides. They ve been around 4ever. Or better yet start ur own ride.
I don't care if we ride slow, as long as we get those kind of hotties like last night. I'll ride slow and stop at every red light.
If I want to ride fast and furious with mostly guys, I'll do all the other rides.
Yeah we learned some lessons last night. Narrow streets suck, but one way streets rock. We can take up the whole street when we ride one way streets.
Also Sgt Krumer, those commanders (i forgot their names) and some of those bicycle officers are cool people. I know it's fashionable to complain about the police, but here's the thing. You aren't gonna get a good police department, if you just complain. You got to give props to the good ones. Let's face it, the politicians aren't the sharpest tools in the box. They can't solve our problems, it takes the community to solve it for ourselves.
Write a quick email to Villaraigosa, or tweet him @villaraigosa, and to your local Council member. Tell them, here is a list of the good cops I have encountered as a bicyclist. Use them as a template for training and hiring. Sometimes you got to draw a picture for the politicians, so they can understand how to do things.
Now if you excuse me, I have a date with a hottie from last night. Keep riding!
I agree with Peter. CM is about having fun & although some of the cops were trying to do the opposite. At the end of the night it was still a fun ride.
People need to start complaining about the fucken kids that fuck it up for everyone else, making the rest of us look bad. We need to get them to stop being so reckless. Only then will we have the trust & respect of the city & its authorities.
P.S> The girls this time around WERE pretty hot. hhahah ^_^
With 1500 riders, CM is far from dead.
But if those who are complaining want the old CM back, where the taggers and shoplifters ruined the rides. When bicycles and cars got into altercations and people would crash on their bikes and go to the hospital. Well good riddance to that old CM.
Whoever got in the front of the pack became the leader. The no leader thing was to create anonymity, but now the police escort us. So we don't have to be anonymous anymore. We can come out of the closet...and ride on the streets.
sgrant responding to a comment by cannondale310
09.25.10 - 3:38 pm
One of the beautiful things about CM(and all the other rides) is indeed something like this, being able to explore the city and in this city being able to ride places at night you wouldn't normally because it's considered dangerous by most people who live in other latitudes.
I love my city of Angels and I want to know her throughout the cycling community is allowing me to do just that, know my city and fall in love with Her over and over again.
Let's stop bitching and try to enjoy what we have while we have it.
Toss that crappy megaphone away and ask Krumer if you could use the one in the squad car, that shit is even loud on the freeway.
At galls.com, look up item SK-143.
For $250.00, that doesn't look like such a bad deal, 12V DC system too.
However, RadioSmack has this AC, house PA system that could have a standard show-mic attached.
It was going for about 70 bones last I checked.
This I already have a 450W, DC-to-AC trucking inverter for.
Aktive gets my vote for ROTW--that cat (along with others in the biking community, too) worked his ass off before and during LACM, keeping the info flowing, and constantly encouraging folks to keep it positive. Those efforts largely succeeeded--LACM this month (following last month's ride and less-than-stellar coverage) could have gone any number of ways, but this month I think we made important strides as a community, with LAPD, and we only can gain from the media coverage that didn't get the negative story that LACM could have devolved into. Next stop: bike lanes on every freakin street (I wish).
I also thought about Sgt. Krumer and his LAPD command and bike officers as ROTW, but, as hard as they worked and as deserving as they potentially may be for the work they put in to working with us on LACM rather than against us, I'd like to keep my nuts and don't want them chewed off by this forum.
Thanks to you and all the other ridaz that understand the difficulty of organizing a route last minute, dealing with a couple of thousand ridaz.
TRYING TO KEEP ANYONE AND EVERYONE FROM GETTING A TICKET WAS MY HARDEST GOAL.
i want us all to chill. party. toke if you can or must. drink some booze if you can or must... but keep it to a level were you wont be busted AND OF COURSE.. letting me in on the session.. ill always throw in on a blunt!
anyone that knows me would know im all about
NON STOP BLAZING and BOMB ASS WHISKEY...
ALONG WITH:
NO STEALING
NO TAGGING
NO LITTERING
which is something advocated by MOM RIDAZ and many other ride groups.
so when we have so many cops around.. the last thing i want is for anyone to fuck up and get a ticket, arrested or even worse injured or killed'
i understand that i cant please everyone.
and that i may upset more than i please
but all i ask is patience from all of the ridaz.
ive been emailed by so many after fridays LACM
wanting us to go somewhere new...
avoiding DTLA, Hollywood and midtown.
like i posted 1st, should we try:
BEACH? its been a long time since LACM went to the beach,
SFVALLEY? it has big wide streets. a lot of it is flat.
South.. passed the drama? Carson? long bitch?? lol.. that one cracked me up when i read it...
but you see.. thats why i started this thread....
i just dont understand why a couple of you would be so upset about trying something new?
why do you complain? cause we didnt do the same old thing? are you afraid of change?
the hardest part FOR ME of the ride was going slow!
I FUCKEN HATE GOING SLOW
but this is supposed to be a ride FOR EVERYONE.. SEASONED RIDAZ to 1st TIME RIDAZ
from the lightest carbon fiber frame to the heaviest cruisers ever made
everyone should have a chance to keep up.. mingle .. make new friends.. make a statement... and be able to keep up...
i want them to enjoy it from start to finish, not worry the whole time about keeping up
WOW.. this just came in to thought.. if we were to get PARADE PERMITS.. we could experiment with:
2 pack LACM.. MASH PACK and CRAWL PACK..wow..
LACM could have endless possibilities!
but no one is in for this... NO ONE APPROVES OF GETTING A PERMIT.
A PERMIT REQUIRES 1 THING: A PREDETERMINED ROUTE.... if we tell the cops a few days before the ride of where we intend to go... they can block the traffic ahead with a good amount of time before the front of LACM reaches the intersection, that way we dont have to stop for red lights at all
another positive about permits is that "supposedly accoridng to LAPD" , if they know where we are going AND WE STAY TO THE RIGHT OF THE YELLOW LINES and not go into traffic, and corkin wouldnt even be involved due to LAPD corking for us...
they could possibly drop the number of cops from 100's to about 30ish.. mostly corking.. barely even riding with the crowd...
we could ride ALL NIGHT.. and ANYWHERE WE WANT... NOW or WITH PERMITS!
THINK ABOUT THAT!
ROTW? not sure what it means, i have an idea.. but i hate guessing lol..
THROW SUGGESTIONS MY WAY!.. ITS EVERYONE'S RIDE!
Aktive_420 responding to a comment by dudeonabike
09.26.10 - 8:42 am
I have been reading your criticisms and comments about the ride and want you to know I hear and understand what your issues are with regards to the confusion created by inconsistant corking by officers.
Please allow me to explain. In the past, many riders have complained about our motors or cars zipping by you at high speeds in an effort to leapfrog to the next light in order to cork. Riders have suggested that it is dangerous and intimidating. We tried to avoid this but as a result we can not get to every intersection to cork. Additionally, we do not have sufficient officers to crok every light.
Since we can not cork all we are asking for riders to stop at all reds. This has the effect of splitting the ride into many smaller rides. Also it stretches the ride out over a larger area and increases the LACM footprint (not necessarily a bad thing if the goal is to be noticed).
Some of the other things I am hearing is that a lot of folks split after the cornfield because the park was closed, there was no water or store that you could get water at. Also I do not think we need to discuss Union steet as we can all agree that it was not a street that was condusive to riding as a large event.
FInally...LACM has outgrown Wilshire and Western and quite frankly a new place should be selected that can accomodate the number of folks turning out.
My suugestions mirror Aktive's to some degree. Develop a route. With a route you can avoid bad street selection, plan your stops in places where you can refill (and confirm they are open) and have a significantly smaller contingent of officers pre-deploy and possiibly cork your ride consistantly as we move along.
There are some who say that LACM traditionally has no leader and no route. While tradition can be a good thing, tradition itself is no reason to hold on to a practice that does not serve (and in fact hinders) the greater efforts to promote cycling and call awareness to cyclists in the City.
The truth of the matter is the same core group of people steer the ride every month...
they take a leadership role without proclaiming themselves leaders. I think we have demonstrated the LAPD wants to work with you and not against...you can step out of the shadows.
Thanks all!
Sgt. David Krumer
Most of these problems can be avoided if we follow some of Aktive's suggestions.
I have heard Pershing Square mentioned. I have also heard Olevera Street (next to Union Station). MacArthur Park (though I would have safety concerns) was also brought up.
All of these places are Metro accessable so there should not be too much trouble getting to any of these.
I would actually ask all of you to throw out some suggestions...maybe start a thread, and the top three can be voted on...LA STREETSBLOG does poles all the time...just a thought.
since the last critical mass everytime my gf and i have walked around with our bikes downtown or been in an elevator or something like that, people have asked us, "did you go on that critical mass bike ride?"
not, "are you one of those ridaz?"
not, "do you go on those midnight rides?"
not, "ive seen you guys riding around before."
normal peeps without bikes know which rides are going on which nights.
i think this (anecdotal evidence) shows that the average angelino is becoming more in touch with the bicycle scene and bicycle culture.
non of the comments ive heard from people has been negative.
Oh boy, i can't wait for next month's cattle drive!
What better way to assert your rights in LA streets than to be herded like cows all night long!
The cops are riding bikes, you say? They MUST be in solidarity with our cause then.
coldcut responding to a comment by palucha66
09.26.10 - 8:06 pm
Wasnt at LACM. Only LAPD escort/cork I ever got was the LAPD valley cancer ride earllier this summer and oh was that sweet. Watching the 40 or so motorcycle cops swoop on motorists who dared to intrude or intimidate cyclists, or even be just plain stupid (more often the case), was an experience I will never forget. 60 miles or so. Hit every LAPD station in the valley for drinks and snacks. But you better believe they kicked our ass to stay in the right lane the whole way. Like most streets its two-way.
Shout out to MD2!
I just read this whole thread and the word that comes to mind is PROGRESS.
This is progress people. We can hate each other based on skin color, we can hate the cops cause the have a job to do, we can hate hate hate and hate. Hate is like crack. I hang around and clean up after people who don't, cause its the right thing to do. Those of you who are slobs and dont give a shit and takel life and the world for granted, Thank You!
The satisfaction from doing the right thing (not for yourself, for everyoen) is soul food.
Life is not rocket science.
Get enough people doing the 'right' thing and things will be ok. Maybe thats how and why religions came about in the first place. And I'm talking common sense values here not extremism, which is inherent in just about every race, religion and culture, and is unique to none.
But I digress... If everyone on this site donated .25 cents to various important fundraising activity in our communities and turned out for the multitude of fund raising events in our communites (and yes you can still go do a night ride and get blasted after) man what a different world it could be.
If there is anyway we can use Streetsblog to help with CM organizing I would be happy to do so. Email me anytime at damien@streetsblog.org and I'd be happy to help.
Thanks,
D
daymen responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
09.27.10 - 4:55 pm
how about the pan pacific park (northern side of PPP) parking lot adjacent to the post office? they're closed by the time the ride meets, it's very large, and the spillover can go to the baseball diamond and the basketball courts. Not very close to a metro station though.
also the chinatown metro station and the adjacent parking lot and large wide sidewalk.
exposition park? coliseum parking lot?
pershing square won't work..they kick you off bikes immediately.
could one of the brighter downtown tunnels be cut off from 6:30-7:45 once a month?
mcarthur park will work with the police presence. huge park with shops nearby to load up on refreshments.
Don't discount Pershing Square so quickly. If that is something the cycling community would be interested in...we can reach out to Dept. of Recreation and Parks (RAP) and inquire. I know that in October they show films at Pershing Square beginnign at 8:00 pm...but after that who knows.
macarthur park sounds great. it might work well because it's not too far off from the original meet spot. or pan pacific. parks are way friendlier than cement squares like pershing and wilshire/western!
"A PERMIT REQUIRES 1 THING: A PREDETERMINED ROUTE.... if we tell the cops a few days before the ride of where we intend to go... they can block the traffic ahead with a good amount of time before the front of LACM reaches the intersection, that way we dont have to stop for red lights at all "
I just looked over the LAPD's Special Events Permit page and I don't think it's that easy at all. Who would be the permit applicant? Roadblock/the MidnightRidazz site? Aktive420? According to this page, they take your organization's history and experience with organizing public events into account when deciding whether or not to approve the application. My gut tells me that LACM's history of arrests, interaction with the police, accidents, etc. would get it automatically disqualified but I could be wrong about that. Then there are legal and monetary issues. I know that, in the past, when the LAPD has hosted community bike rides they've had participants sign a legal waiver first. So I'm thinking there might be some issues with legal responsibility if someone, say, breaks their leg on the ride and decides that the ride organizers were negligent in choosing a safe route or something. Also, CicLAvia has had to raise tens of thousands in funds. I have no idea what that money went to. I'm sure some of it went to stuff like event promotion but I'm wondering if special events organizers have to share some of the costs for the police presence or if there are costs to the application promise.
Sgt. Krumer could probably shed some light on this ...
You guys are treating LACM like it's only posted on M.R.
what if the wheelmen or some other group or even a few individuals wanted to make change to LACM? Just throwing it out there that it is not a midnight ridazz ride.. It is a los angeles bike ride.
Why not just start working on a permitted, pre-determined route ride, along with LAPD so people can attend. If others want to pursue LACM as intended, then why not respect that option?
It just seems like a needless tricky situation to try to steer or control LACM. i think Aktive has the motivation and foundation to create a big ride that can occur the same day, but just let LACM have it place in Los Angeles.
In a way, you'll probably take most the attendees to the LAPD/permit ride, while allow others to continue with their traditional ride.
The LAPD wants a new location, pre-determined route, some to take charge, a permit, etc., so if you're on board with all this, then you have the perfect mixture for a whole new event in Los Angeles.
md2 responding to a comment by barleye
09.28.10 - 8:48 am
I have been looking into the permit process and here is what I have learned so far:
If you were to get a permit it would not be through the LAPD. LAPD parade/procession permits are limited to a 3 mile stretch. In order to cover a larger area you would need to get a permit from the Bureau of Street Services (BOSS). They have no limits on how many miles you can cover. There is a $300 aplication fee which may be waived.
With regards to cost. BOSS will send out the route to the agency that will be providing the services (road closure). That agency (usually the DOT) charges and it can be cost prohibitive. Considering that the agency for rolling street closures would be LAPD, it is unlikely that we would charge.
The reasoning for not charging follows this logic:
1) As of right now you do not submit a route in conjuction with a permit.
2) Without a route we need to deploy more officers
3) LAPD provides the service free of charge now as a function of our duty to maintain order and promote traffic safety
By submitting a route we can deploy less officers thereby saving the City money. If we were to charge you than you would most likely just forgoe the entire process and we are back to overdeploying.
I can say this though...there is no harm in applying and testing to see how it goes. If for whatever reason the permit is denied you are no worse off than you were before and can claim that you made an attempt to work within the system.
If the permit is approved but the costs are too high you can abandon the process and again claim that you made a reasonable effort.
Either way the cycling community looks good for trying, and calls attention to the challenges of hosting a free community events.
P.S. you need to submit the application 40 days in advance.
If I may suggest...for the next LACM do not worry about a permit. We can do a test run. Do some pre-planning and collectively decide where you want to go, and the best route (large streets) to get there. Perhaps you can make arrangements with a Ralphs or CVS to set up a table outside in the parking lot with water, drinks, snacks prepared for when you arrive. Provide us with the route and we will go from there.
The LAPD of course will keep in mind that you can not gaurantee that the Mass will follow the route. I also know that it is blasphamey to even talk about a route as it is counter to the core principles of Critical Mass. That being said I think it a worth while experiment. Will most people prefer a somewhat structured and "evolved" critical mass ride over the traditional critical mass? Don't know. I would argue for an informed decision...so try it out...you can always go back to what you were doing before.
After that we can talk about permits and costs (if any)...lets go with baby steps for now and just start with a route.
Let me be clear on one thing. You do NOT need LAPD's permission to have a ride. What you need is broad based community support for your ride. It is not the LAPD that will stop Critical Mass (we may be the instrument but not the impetus)...its the larger LA community. The LAPD is only suggesting a framework that decreases complaints, is fiscally prudent, and meant to assist Critical Mass co-exist peacefully with the larger community.
Critical Mass has been characterized as "a monthly bicycle ride to celebrate cycling and to assert cyclists' right to the road." I think the City can support a celebration...it will not support a Rave.
Perhaps you are right. Perhaps a modified Critical Mass needs to compete with the traditional Critical Mass ride. So long as those who participate in the traditional Critical Mass ride understand that since they will not be riding on a closed course and that all rules of the road must be followed.
Also, while many exceptional people like trickmilla and roadblock may attend, I will go out on a limb and say that the more problematic folks who are more disruptive and have a natural tendancy to push limits will gravitate towards that ride...so there may be more enforcement.
You all need to understand that the use of parade permits is a ploy that will kill all group rides.
A group of cars do not need a permit to legally travel just as a group of bicycles.
Funeral car processions are a joke and are not necessary. If the cars knew where they would need to go, there would be no need to cork for them. Critical mass means bikes riding together - The use of Corking is also not necessary for critical mass if a destination were predetermined and the riders knew that demonstration of all road rules was in fact representing what they want the public to realize. We are traffic.
- Implement stopping at all reds. If this gets rid of riders then so be it. Demonstrating that bikes follow road rules is more effective even if it slows the ride. The point of Critical Mass is demonstration of cyclists rights not "Zoom Wheee!"
- Agree upon a destination. If people lose the ride they will know where to end up.
(Nobody want's to listen to Borfo, I know. I'm going to keep saying it though until some of you see the light and share this thinking or acknowledge it somehow.)
1) as dazzling as our personalities are Roadblock and I are not at all exceptional in terms of how we approach riding in a group. We belong to a culture where most people who show up on rides for any substantial amount of time - ride primarily for fun - putting personal safety and the safety of others at the very top of our list (admittedly above obsessive adherence to laws). Also near the top is a desire to avoid being ticketed or harassed by police ... most of us choose to adhere to the Chris Rock school of ass-kicking avoidance.
2) A "modified" critical mass, including "modifications" such as: hierarchy, permits, pre-determined routes, and government sanctioning would not be a "Critical Mass".
I welcome the organizing of different rides ... even a competing ride that will draw riders away from Critical Mass, however, for such a ride to have any validity and respect it can not be called "Critical Mass".
trickmilla responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
09.28.10 - 11:16 am
After reading all comments from my fellow ridaz ...my point of view is shifting.
The permit process for one seems to complicated. Costly. And seems too bureaucratic For the people that make up critical mass.
We have been able to dedicate ourselves to building up this massive voice for bicycle rights....we must be able to keep ourselves in check.
By following traffic laws, since we are fighting to be recognized as a legal, greener, more accessible form of transportation, we should be stopping at red lights. Not go in oncoming traffic.
By leaving positive impressions in the communities we ride through showing we wont leave a trail of destruction including littering, vandalism, nor stealing.
Different groups should volunteer monthly to make sure ride safely and respectfully.
MOM Ridaz have expressed interest in helping. Of course we wouldn't want to be the only ones doing it. Nor do we want to do it every single mass
But when MOM Ridaz are involved in keeping us safe we may be carrying first aid kits to help with any injuries that happen during mass and may also have a trailer helping out with simple gear support.
Just ideas....
But needed to say I'm on board with a lot of What borfo says
A "modified" critical mass, including "modifications" such as: hierarchy, permits, pre-determined routes, and government sanctioning would not be a "Critical Mass".
I see your point...from our previous discussion...steak tar tar is not hamburger.
Unfortunetly I don't know what other Websites It is posted on... Lately we have as many as 400 or so people on our second friday rides and there are upwards of 1300+ people on LACM... they are re finding postings somewhere.
barleye responding to a comment by Aktive_420
09.28.10 - 12:52 pm
You do realize there are people who attend CM but don't read or comment on any bike-related websites, right? Those people may actually be in the majority.
Hallucin8 responding to a comment by Aktive_420
09.29.10 - 1:45 am
-->
Ridazz Roulette!
