LACM & LAPD
Thread started by
Aktive_420 at 09.21.10 - 10:33 am
STARTING THIS FRIDAY
LAPD WILL START GIVING TICKETS TO RIDAZZ ON CRITICAL MASS IF THEY DO THE FOLLOWING
1) RIDE IN ONCOMING TRAFFIC OR CROSS THE YELLOW LINES
2) STOP TRAFFIC OR CORK.
ITS SO EASY TO AVOID ANYONE GETTING TICKETS AND/OR GETTING ARRESTED,
LETS RIDE RIGHT. AND NOT CORK... THAT SIMPLE
PLEASE JUST PASS THIS SUGGESTIONS
anyone that knows me knows it isnt easy for me to ask of this.. I LOVE CORKING. it keeps us moving.
but now the cops are going to make examples out of wrong way ridaz and corkers.. and i personally cant afford tickets or jail time.. and i know many of you cant afford it either.. so why get busted.
thanks for your time.
MOM RIDAZ!
reply
Rulezz of the Ride...
Lets be honest. No one is particularly eager to be an authority figure of a ride this massive. The reality is that the ride doesnt really need to have figures of authority. If we all observe some common sense guidelines and are actively vocal about them as individuals we can all stay safe AND keep the rides fun. Ridazz works because every individual rider recognizes that the safety of one is the safety of all. Ridazz are vocal about hazzards in the road, Ridazz call out potholes, turns and slow downs. They are vocal about staying to the right and about thanking our friends in cars that we share the road with for waiting a few extra minutes for us to get through. It is because of these following guidelines that one can truly say:
Ridazz don't die... they multiply.
Stay out of the left lane. JOIN the party on the right.
Most routes take Ridazz down 4 lane streets... This allows for the use of one entire lane while allowing for automobiles to continue using the left lane to pass on by. This is perhaps the most important rule we can follow. This also means maintaining the right lane as our own not to be confused with the right hand turn lane which some Ridazz tend to drift into when it becomes available or when there are no longer parked cars blocking it. We get one single un-obstructed lane and we maintain this lane until the route changes direction.
Don't Litter.
There's nothing that hurts the Ridazz reputation quite like the mess of trash that invariably gets left behind at every rest stop we make. Please show respect for the neighborhood and for the small businesses by picking up after yourself and your friends.
Make some noise!
Bicycle riders need to be noticed. Not because of their silly aviator goggles, but because being noticed means that drivers hear them and then see them.... and therefore avoid hitting them. We're not talking about yelling at drivers or scaring people... We're talking about whistles, cat calls, wolf howls and any other sexy noises you can muster that will put drivers on alert especially while crossing through an intersection. It's for YOUR safety.
Bicycle riders need to be notified of dangers. Potholes, cracks, railroad tracks... They can all cause serious injury. When a rida observes any such hazzards in the road they speak up and pass the message back. "Pothole to the right! Pass it back!" "Stop ahead!" "Slowing down slowing down!" All of these signals help keep the beast moving along SAFELY.
No Rida Left Behind.
We've come a long way since the days of 30 Ridazz and everyone of them being able to stop when a fellow Rida was in trouble. Today this timeless slogan continues to be an important rule. Because it is simply impossible to stop 1000+ riders in their tracks for every person that gets a flat or experiences a mechanical failure we need to re-define what that slogan means. Understand that you as an individual rider are responsible for your well being. Have a buddy on the ride and stay in touch via cell phone. Make some contacts while getting ready at the start. It is EXTREMELY important to have your bicycle in good working order before you ride. Bring a flat fix kit, tubes and tools. You owe it to yourself to be prepared. And if you happen to see a lone rida stranded on the side, use that opportunity to make a new friend and help them out... No rida left behind.
Maintain your position. Ride straight, ride predictably!
Some cyclists have no regard for those behind or in front of them. We've all seen them, they weave back and forth, speed up and slow down amongst a crowd of Ridazz and generally ride in a dangerous and aggressive manner... This type of behaviour is the number one cause of accidents and injury. If this is how you ride.... don't ride with us.
Slowing down or stopping? Move CAUTIOUSLY to the right!
If you as an individual have to suddenly slow down or you need to stop and the ride is moving along, call out "SLOWING DOWN!" or "STOPPING!" PLEASE move as quickly as possible to the right and out of the way BEFORE you begin your slow down. Make sure you aren't cutting someone off in the process!
Enforcing the Rulezz?
Nobody wants to be told by some "busybody" how to ride... Yet we all want to experience a flowing harmonious ride that keeps everyone safe and out of the cops radar. So how do you communicate to a rida that he or she is being a drag? Speak up! A simple "Stay to the right" is often enough to remind a rida that they're slipping. If you see a knucklehead throwing a bottle or littering simply boo that person. It's called community shaming. When everyone participates, it really works. Thanks for making Ridazz safe and fun for the years to come.
THIS WAS CoPIED OF THIS SAME SITE!
Aktive_42009.21.10 - 10:34 am
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are you saying to stop at all red lights? I thought that was the objective a few months ago when the police where on the first of many LACM'S and a lot of us were talking about how the ride would hold up traffic for miles....but once the ride started, the police corked for us.
Did the police say they will cite random cyclists for red light violations as well?
barleye09.21.10 - 10:42 am
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WELL THE COPS ARE WILLING TO CORK.
we as civillians cant, we impede traffic. so we get tickets.
'
the cops will cork as many lights as they can, and will make us stop at reds if they dont cork
which works for regrouping anyways
its just those two main issues that will get the most enforcement.
Aktive_420 responding to a
comment by barleye
09.21.10 - 10:51 am
reply
this goes full circle to the other thread where I questioned to Sgt. Krumer about being corked at one light and not the next....obviously we can't stop with HUNDREDS of riders flying by at 15-25mph. Like Krumer said, either all or none....They better bring in additional officers IMO.
barleye responding to a
comment by Aktive_420
09.21.10 - 11:08 am
reply
shouldnt lacm be going 10mph - 15mph....
Aktive_420 responding to a
comment by barleye
09.21.10 - 11:13 am
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Agreed, slower=better for LACM. Allows me to groove to my tunes much more effortlessly.
dudeonabike09.21.10 - 12:43 pm
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I would say so, but since most want to continue to act like jack-asses and ride fast bikes, this will continue until their numbers peter out, or others start putting their collective foots down on their actions.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by Aktive_420
09.21.10 - 12:45 pm
reply
thats where YOU.. as the individual.. and as part of the whole.. step in.
Aktive_420 responding to a
comment by bentstrider
09.21.10 - 12:54 pm
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I always read and hear people say that you need to stop at a red. In my every day riding, I always stop at reds. But there's something about the group think when it comes to these rides that makes it hard to put it into practice. I've tried stopping at red lights since I'm usually in the back and have lost the group and no cops are around to cork. Then you get a bunch of people yelling for you to roll it and if you try to stop you can either cause an accident or just welcome a lot of name calling. I can live with the name calling but I don't want to be the cause of an accident. When people yell to roll it, I take that to mean that they have made up their minds about continuing and if I try to stop they could hit me or vice versa.
I think it's definitely possible to stop at a red even with a big group but it requires everyone be on board and trust each other to stop. It's so black and white on paper but when you're riding, the decision to stop or go can be confusing.
graciela09.21.10 - 1:23 pm
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thats why we all need to spread the word.. show by example.
Aktive_420 responding to a
comment by graciela
09.21.10 - 1:26 pm
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I can admit I fall into the second definition there. I am too intimidated to try and correct rude kids that may do something back.
graciela responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.21.10 - 1:56 pm
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I think the cops are less concerned about a mass of people going through a red then they are corking.
They have expressed that they think it creates the appearance that are condoning (or deputizing" ridazz to cork.
The issue with riding against traffic is obvious.
I have heard the crunch of bike on car because a ridaa was trying to pass to left of the yellow line. Its one of the most horrible sounds ever.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by graciela
09.21.10 - 1:57 pm
reply
Don't get caught up with the stopping-for-red-lights issue (for this ride)--it's a confusing mess.
For this ride, if you focus on two or three simple things you will highly increase the probability it will go smoothly and LAPD will respond positively:
1. RIDE TO THE RIGHT OF THE DOUBLE YELLOW LINE,
2. NO CORKING,
3. DON'T HIT CARS.
Spread the word.
dudeonabike09.21.10 - 2:13 pm
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This might be very interesting... we may lose many officers if they are handing out tickets to the point that we may not have many officers to cork streets...
the benefit may be the ride staying togehter as a group and being concerned about the fast riders wouldn't be an issue....
Aktive_420- do you know if announcements will be made by any rider or by police officers before the ride? any flyers? any other form to spread the word aside from this post that has only recieved about 10 posts.... maybe you should put this on the Leto post--- just messing dude...
dayone09.21.10 - 2:15 pm
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members from different bike clubs will begin gathering at 630p to greet and mingle with ridazz.... spreading the word
sever groups are working on providing their own versions of flyers.
some other ideas will be presented there by individuals...
cops will always make announcements.
Aktive_420 responding to a
comment by dayone
09.21.10 - 2:20 pm
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Pretty soon we are going to need a permit like n.y..every month we have a new rule I'll spread the word..
chunkylover0909.21.10 - 2:33 pm
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they have offered permits. as long as we give them a pre set route.
we can ride all night, where ever we want...
IF WE STAY TO THE RIGHT OF THE YELLOW AND NOT CORK OURSELVES, they will even drop the number of officers needed
BUT EVERYONE MUST BE ON BOARD..
we have to open a discussion online somehow and try to discuss this'
ive offered a couple of discussion groups in the last couple of weeks, but everyone must be on the same page.
so as of now, we ride with NO PERMIT, and have been warned about the TICKETS!
Aktive_42009.21.10 - 2:46 pm
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Sorry I haven't made the meetings, but I am not on board with requiring a permit for Critical Mass.
The idea is that we are riding in traffic AS traffic. It is not a parade.
The efforts need to be towards self policing not getting permission to ride in the streets.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Aktive_420
09.21.10 - 2:52 pm
reply
fo shizzle dude, i know, im just stating what they have offered.
but we gotta watch the crossing into oncoming traffic. and the corking, WHICH I LOVE SO MUCH,
i just dont want anyone getting busted.
Aktive_420 responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.21.10 - 2:54 pm
reply
@aktive_420
is anyone prepared or how can we prepare when the first group of tickets start being handed out? the reaction of groups may not be positive....
also, the selection of wide streets will help....
dayone09.21.10 - 3:04 pm
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I think important traditions of CM are no pre-determined route and not being sanctioned by the government.
This is a an ongoing global action and I think it is important to respect some of the key aspects of our global partners.
99% of Ridazz on LACM do not cork and do not ride on the other side of the yellow.
These are simple things that people can do to avoid getting tickets.
trickmilla09.21.10 - 3:10 pm
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I completely understand.
I think you have a great amount of enthusiasm and effort and you just may be an important influence that will change the behavior of a lot of people for the better.
Just know that the cops will NEVER break down and allow self corking to be condoned.
Every red light crossed a person is taking the risk into their own hands as to what the consequences will be. The cops WILL continue cracking down on it.
Requiring a permit is the city's way of successfully KILLING Critical Mass. It happened in Portland. It is happening in NYC.
I'm not sure how to make it all work. I have heard a lot of your ideas and I hope you will be able to implement them with the support of many others. Ride On!
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Aktive_420
09.21.10 - 3:10 pm
reply
I think the cops understand that ticketing issuance no matter how justified will make them look bad to the ridazz,
They are prepared to ticket, but I think it is their hope to influence people not to ride against traffic so they wont have to look bad to the bikes.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by dayone
09.21.10 - 3:15 pm
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I'm wit the narc on this one! no permit required we r traffic!
fixie4life responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.21.10 - 3:24 pm
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My point has always been. Just act like traffic because WE ARE...
Stop at every fucking red light. The ride will get spread out and slow and trafficy.
Critical Mass is not intended to be fun! Perhaps fun is a by-product. However, if everyone stops at reds. - If everyone rides in the right lane - the result will be that bikes will be stretched out for miles all over the city and everyone is following the rules of the road. This results in critical mass success. We are making a spectacle by being traffic.
So do it in mindset of opposition rather than compliance:
Give them what they want ! STOP AT ALL REDS. STAY ON THE RIGHT LANE ONLY.
This is my point. I see this working.
Yes. It changes the nature of CM. It takes all the But yet it becomes somewhat more dull to obey all the rules, but doing so makes it even more Punk Rock than ever!
Does this make any sense whatsoever to any of you?
Joe Borfo09.21.10 - 3:25 pm
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oops -
Yes. It changes the nature of CM. It becomes somewhat more dull to obey all the rules -
Joe Borfo09.21.10 - 3:28 pm
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I like the spirit of your post but honestly good luck with STOP AT ALL REDS.
Bike riding is dead. Everyone buy a car and be traffik.
Foldie responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.21.10 - 3:29 pm
reply
Stay out of the left lane. JOIN the party on the right.
Most routes take Ridazz down 4 lane streets... This allows for the use of one entire lane while allowing for automobiles to continue using the left lane to pass on by. This is perhaps the most important rule we can follow. This also means maintaining the right lane as our own not to be confused with the right hand turn lane which some Ridazz tend to drift into when it becomes available or when there are no longer parked cars blocking it. We get one single un-obstructed lane and we maintain this lane until the route changes direction.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA wat did u guys smoke that nite????? how r u goin to keep CM in one lane on the right? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! this I gotta see!!!!
fixie4life responding to a
comment by Aktive_420
09.21.10 - 3:30 pm
reply
did you even read my post?
Why do people not get this?
maybe this site will help? - http://improveverywhere.com/
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Foldie
09.21.10 - 3:33 pm
reply
my post was more for User1 than you, foldie.
Joe Borfo09.21.10 - 3:34 pm
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I get it--and dig the idea. Stopping at reds=traffic, which we are. Simple (in theory).
LAPD top brass said it--and it's an obvious concept: we can ride all day, all night, anywhere in the city, and they won't give a shit IF we ride within the law. The problems come when masses get large, people run reds, cork intersections, ride in oncoming traffic lanes, etc.
It would make OUR lives so much easier (and our goals accomplished sooner) if more lawful, more aware riding were able to be put into practice on large group rides. We would still be traffic--but we'd start to shed that cyclists=nogoodnik mentality that seems to unfortunately be so prevalent.
That said, jeez, what a challenge. There's a lot of work to do here.
dudeonabike responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.21.10 - 3:52 pm
reply
Didn't we find out in another thread that it's stillline not user1?
imachynna responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.21.10 - 3:54 pm
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if you DO get it, then how can we spread this message in a way that sells to all the riders?
This was the point of "project civil obedience" but nobody bit.
What angle might we try differently?
@foldie - OMG SO HOTT!!!
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by dudeonabike
09.21.10 - 3:55 pm
reply
I have proof it's the rev looser whon. but I'm going to let him play his game before I reveal it.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by imachynna
09.21.10 - 3:56 pm
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Just go to Ciclavia and call it a day!
Foldie responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.21.10 - 3:56 pm
reply
Goddamn it !
CICLAVIA is not CM. CICLAVIA HAD TO RAISE THOUSANDS to get permits and shut down the streets for a few hours.
CM is about traffic, not shutting down the streets.
I do support Ciclavia however.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Foldie
09.21.10 - 3:58 pm
reply
i think u woud have more luck gettin ALL cars to go the speed limit before u get ALL rida obaying the law. y dont the cops start givin demands like this to drivers? like I said good luck wit ur plan!
fixie4life responding to a
comment by dudeonabike
09.21.10 - 4:01 pm
reply
Yes I get it, but the boneheads that cause problems on every ride will never get it.
My point is if we had weekly ciclavia's then we would be heading in the right direction.
CM is not going to do anything constructive and it will only bring the LAPD to NYPD standards and give more of a negative view of cyclists.
Foldie responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.21.10 - 4:02 pm
reply
PC has infected you I see.
Harumph!
Why is CM in almost every city and country?
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Foldie
09.21.10 - 4:04 pm
reply
I don't want to belabor the stopping-at-reds issue for the purpose of this ride (because other safety points are higher up on LAPD's radar right now), but it's a good point that deserves further discussion.
Question: why not stop at reds?
Ok, fine, I get the "it's dangerous" argument (if a rider in front of me decides to stop, I or others near/behind that riders might not stop, thereby causing a pile up), but that only exists because there is a group mentality of NOT stopping at reds. Perhaps that should change. Maybe just for one Critical Mass as a trial. It will take a few rides before any significant number of people stop for reds, but why the heck not try it?
And I also get the "I don't want to lose the ride" argument for fear of not knowing where I am. That one is primarily for noob riders that either don't know the city (acceptable) or don't know how to carry/read a map (unacceptable). There's got to be some level of personal accountability.
dudeonabike09.21.10 - 4:17 pm
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good points.
wow I'm really an impatient person. I can't ever get to execute an idea because i don't like all the work it takes to get everyone on board.
i would really like to see everyone try this.
It would be the first. World wide. No kidding.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by dudeonabike
09.21.10 - 4:21 pm
reply
if you would READ CAREFULLY no one said stay to the right lane..
WE SAID STAY TO THE RIGHT OF THE YELLOW LINES!
so if our direction has 4 lanes, we will ride all our lanes! not just the right one.
Aktive_420 responding to a
comment by fixie4life
09.21.10 - 4:36 pm
reply
Except I'm not able to come down to this often enough, let alone take any Friday nights off from work to practice this.
1-10 mile ride for you to the LACM start-point, 100+ mile drive for me.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by Aktive_420
09.21.10 - 4:42 pm
reply
I've spoken to a few of the teenage riders and from what I gathered
they go on the left lane for a number of reasons.
1.They see Adult riders doing it.
2.The right lane gets too congested or some asshole can't hold their line and swerves like a moron.
3.They wanna show off to the ladies...
Those are not all but they are the main reasons.
I've spoken to most of the ones here in Ktown and told them about the ticketing so I guess we'll see what happens this friday.
Ninja biker09.21.10 - 4:48 pm
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1.They see Adult riders doing it.
Do as I say, not as I do.
If personal safety means anything to these babies, then let the guy riding in the right take a dive all by his lonesome.
2.The right lane gets too congested or some asshole can't hold their line and swerves like a moron.
Tell the offender to straighten up and fly right, after that, ride a bit further or behind and leave enough room to allow an out for yourself.
3.They wanna show off to the ladies...
Seeing as how most rides started/hosted by these kids are sausage-fests anyways, then they're living in an imagination land of their own concoction.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by Ninja biker
09.21.10 - 4:56 pm
reply
oh I thoght when you said - This allows for the use of one entire lane while allowing for automobiles to continue using the left lane to pass on by. u mean to stay in the right lane and allow the cars to pass by in the left lane. MY BAD!
fixie4life responding to a
comment by Aktive_420
09.21.10 - 4:57 pm
reply
I've been hanging out with quite a few of them and hopefully taught them a few of the basic rules.
There's a few bad eggs around here but the majority of them really just want to have fun.
They really do have a lot energy to burn though lol
Damn hormones makes them go crazy
Ninja biker09.21.10 - 5:01 pm
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what up ride leaders. I'm working on a spoke card for this week's LACM. It will have a "Ride to the Right" message on front and a bunch of logos from ride groups that support this message. The idea is to reach out to everyone NOT to ride into oncoming traffic. This is the ONE greatest issue for the LAPD. If people continue to ride into oncoming traffic they will get ticketed!
send me your logos to put on the back of this spoke card. It will be presented at a press conference tomorrow and passed out at LACM on Friday.
send high res jpegs to roadblock at midnightridazz dot com.
Roadblock09.21.10 - 5:03 pm
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Agreed it will be a challenge--and likely not fully able to be executed for several months (if not longer?).
But shits going to change--whether we assist in bringing about that change and form a cycling community that is able to pull off successful large group rides like as is a long and storied history of doing here in LA--or whether rules are imposed upon us by others if it is to continue has yet to be seen, but shit will change--it has to. I'd prefer the former.
Are you going to help--or hinder--the process--or just ride your bike and pretend nothing is happening?
dudeonabike responding to a
comment by fixie4life
09.21.10 - 5:03 pm
reply
In case you missed it from my post on another thread--
LAPD to hold a press conference on Wed at 5 pm to discuss some thoughts about this Friday's LA Critical Mass.
Looking for some more info....
dudeonabike09.21.10 - 5:58 pm
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..you guys think cops might start ticketing fixie riders for not having any brakes..
chunkylover09 responding to a
comment by dudeonabike
09.21.10 - 6:05 pm
reply
Fixed gear bikes DO have brakes--chainring, chain, cog, rear wheel--just not caliper/disc-style brakes. Whether or not this is an official LAPD position, I have not heard (nor have I seen any such formal written policy issued by LAPD on the subject), but I have heard LAPD officers state what I wrote in the first sentence. Pretty high up ones, too.
If it's a single speed, however, with no caliper/disc brakes then you've got a problem (and likely not very many brain cells).
At any rate, that will not be a major concern of LAPD's for this ride. If you're caught riding on the wrong side of the double yellow AND you've got no brakes and/or no lights, then I would expect that to be added to your ticket, but it seems unlikely that LAPD will be looking to pick out riders/bikes that merely have no lights/brakes. They're trying to work with us--not just be hard asses.
dudeonabike responding to a
comment by chunkylover09
09.21.10 - 6:24 pm
reply
I hear you, Borfo. Keep fighting the good fight, man.
Obeying the rules IS punk rock....never thought I'd hear the day.
So crazy, it just might work.
Roadblock, where is this press conference gonna be?
DJwheels responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.21.10 - 9:45 pm
reply
My main concern is that many attendees are accustomed to corking, running reds, etc. Receiving a ticket can be hard on a lot of people in this city and during these times. It will be confusing if we're inconsistent with corking / red lights.
On another note, If we're going to live with the LAPD and if they really want us to continue in a certain manner, then I don't see any reason why a NEW style of riding for LACM cannot be adapted. If we make good on our end, then it's up to the LAPD to return the favor.
It is true that the LAPD in it's current form cannot just ignore the mass rides, so there has been a kind of unfairness on my end for asking why a certain kind of engagement is not possible or used. I think it will take months to accomplish, and it will honestly take people like me to hold back on their questions and frustrated posts about the LAPD, in conjunction with the LAPD trying more and more to hold back from aggressive responses.
Overall, I'd don't want to see LACM or Crankmas/mob end or become an insider only event. This is something a ton of kids are encountering and it is their moment as teenagers/young adults to have something to be a part of, instead of their usual negative environments.
I sympathize with many because some of our shared similar backgrounds that lacked something as positive as LACM, MR and Crankmob. A lot of us come from positive/ privileged backgrounds, and many of us escaped our own troubled pasts, so (and maybe it's just me) but we been given a gift in way. In a pseudo-spiritual kind of way Los Angeles has entrusted us with some of it's youth, and it's a chance to pay forward our good fortune.
I still continue to believe that despite our/my feelings about the LAPD, there are some people that matter more than our idealistic principles.
Ride on.
md209.22.10 - 9:50 am
reply
"In a pseudo-spiritual kind of way Los Angeles has entrusted us with some of it's youth, and it's a chance to pay forward our good fortune."
by showing them it is ok to break laws, drink underage, smoke out and follow mob mentality.
Foldie responding to a
comment by md2
09.22.10 - 10:01 am
reply
Can you ever just calm your urge to paint seemingly everything in a negative light? It gets old. Seriously. I bet 90% of the kids on LACM are not drinking and smoking.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Foldie
09.22.10 - 10:06 am
reply
LACM is the people that show up.
Be the LACM that you want LACM to be.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Foldie
09.22.10 - 10:09 am
reply
Note taken, but in this case I am not trying to be negative or trollie. If you say the alternative is these kids will join gangs or be out causing trouble so LACM is a positive place to be, then I can see the point to an extent.
But what quite a few rides are about is parting in a parking lot or a park. As a parent I would not equate that behavior to say a city run basketball camp.
So if we are going to make some lofty claims about the kids then they should make sense. LACM may be less about the party, but the same kids ride crankmass......
Foldie responding to a
comment by Roadblock
09.22.10 - 10:14 am
reply
If you say the alternative is these kids will join gangs or be out causing trouble
I'm not saying that the alternative is joining gangs or getting into trouble. What I did say is that it's an escape from their negative environment. You might not value this escape, but some do.
As a parent I would not equate that behavior to say a city run basketball camp.
No one is asking you to equate the two. For kids interested in basketball, they have basketball camp, where they can learn about basketball. I never said we wanted to teach kids how to ride bikes.
What you have here is a unique situation.
I'm not sure what Foldie did as a teen or young adult, but for kids that are able to get out of their parents house at 10pm or later, are not necessarily growing up in the same household a lot of other teens do. So you may as a parent think "you're too young to roam the streets", or maybe other parents realize "this is one of the best things that has happened to my child, they are excited and interested". Some kids dont have a male Foldie to tell to shape up and stay home at night. Some kids have a Foldie that don't give a shit about them.
Parenting is very hard. I'm not interested in parenting any other kids, but I'm interested in maintain avenues, if our cities will not, and our well-to-do families could care less about. What else do some of the participants have to look forward to on a day to day basis?
This isn't after school tutoring, but it can be a positive. Rides like LACM can be an introduction to politics, activism, health, alternate transportation, ecology, etc. What Crankmas can be is the flip side to all the other bike propaganda, which is -- now its time to just to let loose a bit (within parameters). But more than anything, it gives these kids a history; o be part of something more than a ton of TV show episode memories or mom & dad fighting.
Richie was right to mad at riders for leaving a mess, and being so negative toward police and neglecting to help keep the ride orderly. I disagree with other points, but I want to leave those alone now. I want to move on from the LAPD issue. I'm not strong enough to fight or change the LAPD. But after I'm dead and buried maybe my son will have a shit load of experience and propaganda embedded in him to continue what we're all hoping to see in this world.
It's either that, or the return of Jesus, but I'm more inclined to believe we just have this world and this chance.
What do you think, Foldie?
md2 responding to a
comment by Foldie
09.22.10 - 1:01 pm
reply
it's all very simple.
to stay out of trouble with the police all you have to do is comply. follow the rules. on CM ride in a single file line except when passing. stay as close to the gutter as is safe. stop at all the lights. wear a helmet, have a bike license, lights, etc. don't drink or smoke. follow any instructions given to you by the authorities. do not play any loud music which will disturb residents. allow cars to proceed without interference (car drivers have rights too), report any infraction you see another bicyclist committing to the nearest police officer.
now lets all go out and have some fun.
indigis09.22.10 - 6:39 pm
reply
Isn't that what I've been saying?
Are my posts invisible or something?
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by indigis
09.22.10 - 6:54 pm
reply
Indigis is correct. To avoid getting a ticket in your day to day riding you should pretty much do everything he listed....with the exception of:
1. bike licenses...no need for one.
2. no helmet is required for adults.
3. You should not ride in the gutter. The saying "ride to the right" is a bit misleading. You should bike where it is right...which means only as far to the right as is safe and practicable.
On LACM though you only have to stay to the right of the double yellow...and we will not stop you from playing music. Also...don't report other cyclists committing infractions unless they are engaged in activity that absolutely needs to be addressed. Instead, when you see someone doing something committing a traffic violation tell them to get eith the program and excercise a little peer pressure (so long as it is safe to do so.)
Thanks Indigis.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by indigis
09.22.10 - 10:09 pm
reply
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video#global
dayone09.22.10 - 10:30 pm
reply
Sgt. David Krumer,
do we have ur asurrance that ur officers will not kick us? will not put there sticks in the spokes of bikes? will not beat us for filming there actions? will not drive us off the road with there cars and motorcycles? will not cause dangerous situatin like driving fast nest to bikes going slow? and finaly will there be two sets of instructions so no matter what we do we r resisting arrest?
fixie4life responding to a
comment by Sgt. David Krumer
09.23.10 - 12:09 am
reply
Sounds like it's that time of the month again.
If you haven't been ticketed before and don't have a habit of attracting unwanted attention to yourself, then stop hemorrhaging and simmer down.
bentstrider09.23.10 - 12:57 am
reply
My life situation doesn't allow for me to make it out to LACM as much as I would like to.
My heart is there though, and I'd like to see LACM be big, be successful, and see that it gets some positive attention for once out into the city about changing our thinking towards cycling.
Good luck, everyone.
Joe Borfo09.23.10 - 3:54 am
reply
We do need to self-police ourselves. LAPD has done all it can at this point to help make the ride safe and enjoyable. Out of 2000 riders, there is a small minority who are out to ruin the ride. We have to call them out. We have to single them out. If the LA bicycle community wants to be a taken seriously, we have to all step up to the plate.
We are at a crossroads. The city, the political leaders, the residents all know we now exist. They are taking notice. This small group of riders who are out to cause havoc will stain our cause.
We need to support the efforts of Aktive and the other riders who have been working with LAPD during the past two Critical Mass rides. We all need to help keep the group riding safely and legally. As long as the majority of us are aware of this, and each of us make a small effort, we can remedy this situation.
It's all about peer pressure. If the majority of us pressures those small groups to comply with the laws and ride responsibly we can make a difference.
Ride with us, and ride right! Ride against us, and you can go home.
328rides4ever09.23.10 - 7:22 am
reply
We also need to come up with better places to have stops. Last month was a disaster because of the proximity to that AMPM. Basically, the mass needs to have public parks to stop at. Private lots or spots that put the mass next to a liquor store are not acceptable.
Roadblock09.23.10 - 7:42 am
reply
"do we have ur asurrance that ur officers will not kick us? "
Kicks are authorized only pursuant to our use of force policy. I can assure you that no cyclist will be kicked while they are cycling...if a cyclist gets stopped and afterward acts aggressively toward the officer than you can not rule out the possibility that a kick may be used IF it is appropriate to do so.
"will not put there sticks in the spokes of bikes?"
We are developing tactics to stop a moving cyclist. Officers will absolutely NOT stick there batons between your spokes.
"will not beat us for filming there actions?"
Officers will be reminded that when they are in public they can be filmed, photoed, or otherwise observed (so long as it is from a distance that is safe and does not interfere with the officers actions).
"will not drive us off the road with there cars and motorcycles?"
You woud have to be a bit more specific. Officers may veer into your lane in an effort to move you to where they want you to go, but if they do so they will have to do it at a speed that is safe...and it will be accompanied by verbal directions.
"will not cause dangerous situatin like driving fast nest to bikes going slow?"
Whether the speed at which they drive is dangerous is a bit subjective so its tough for me to answer this one. I know that many have complained that the motors shoot by rather quick...of course this should not be a problem if everyone is to the right of the double yellow. I can not make a promise on this one as I do not know if I will meet your standards of safety.
"and finaly will there be two sets of instructions so no matter what we do we r resisting arrest?"
I am sure you meant this last point in jest as I am sure you already know the answer. But I encourage everyone to bring their iphones and recorders. I am confident that our LACM team will be professional and act accordingly.
Sgt. David Krumer responding to a
comment by fixie4life
09.23.10 - 8:33 am
reply
the image from the helicopter is pretty dope
md2 responding to a
comment by trickmilla
09.23.10 - 8:36 am
reply
Channel 7's coverage of the LACM/LAPD press conference was decent. This video should be the lead in a new post--so it can reach a broader audience.
Can someone that knows how to embed the video (like Trickmilla did above) start a new thread entitled "LACM Press Conference" or something of that nature to raise some additional awareness....
(Or tell me how you tech nerds do it, and I'll post it.)
dudeonabike09.23.10 - 10:08 am
reply
i do not know how to hyper link.... https://local.nixle.com/alert/3542150/?sub_id=22610
can someone hyper link the webpage... if not copy & paste
dayone09.23.10 - 10:18 am
reply
Press release from LAPD:
https://local.nixle.com/alert/3542150/?sub_id=22610
alicestrong09.23.10 - 10:18 am
reply
I still think the Ch. 7 video should be the first post in new thread to maximize it's broadcast--rather than it being some 80-odd posts down.
(Can't believe I'm actually suggesting people watch network news. I don't even have a tv--that shit is so awful--but here, I'd like as many ridazz to know what's up for LACM that I guess I'm willing to make an exception.)
dudeonabike09.23.10 - 10:34 am
reply
Interesting statement:
In keeping with the Department’s mission and in response to the cycling community’s calls for police involvement and participation, the LAPD will be present at the next Los Angeles Critical Mass ride scheduled for September 24, 2010.
the "and in response to" part seems odd. Is it accurate?
md2 responding to a
comment by alicestrong
09.23.10 - 11:02 am
reply
Agreed--that's a bit confusing. I can't say I've been involved every cyclist-LAPD discussion, but I haven't heard of a specific ask along those lines, such as "please get involved and participate." Trying to give it a positive spin, however, I read it as LAPD suggesting that cyclists called for police involvement and participation--rather than unnecessary,uneven, and potentially inappropriate police ENFORCEMENT.
dudeonabike responding to a
comment by md2
09.23.10 - 11:14 am
reply
see, the media just doesnt ever get shit right.... it wasn't "the kick" that was so much outrageous in that video as it was to see Danny tackled and beaten just for
filming
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Ninja biker
09.23.10 - 11:34 am
reply
I think the LAPD is going to do the corking. Actually, it's better for the cycle community if they do it and not us. When they do it it sends a message to mororists that the LAPD supports our rights to be traffric.
Girl Power responding to a
comment by barleye
09.23.10 - 11:51 am
reply
No TV? ??
Only place I could condone that would be the back-country, and even then I'd still have a crank-operated/solar-powered shortwave.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by dudeonabike
09.23.10 - 12:14 pm
reply
I'd rather the LAPD not cork if they're going to give tickets for running reds/corking. Too many people will receive a confused message: are we going? are we stopping? is the lapd corking? whos corking?
If its wrong, then no one should do it unless they want to risk breaking precious laws. And lets just leave it at that. It would just be easier to follow red and green lights like robots, rather than looking for an officer blocking traffic like worried citizens.
Hopefully, others will follow these "laws", and give the LAPD reason to find something else to do. We get this analogy that if a car club or such wanted to drive around corking, etc, we would be up in arms. Well if the cops corked for cars would we then be okay with it? So if were going to use that thinking to suggest we shouldn't cork, then lets just not cork at all, unless cops start corking for cars, motorcycles, etc, right?
If some want to push the limits, then let the cops chase them if thats their interest. The rest of us can stick around over the next months as everyone else get muddied in tickets and either gets tired of showing up or falls in line (a la indigis).
Ride on
md2 responding to a
comment by Girl Power
09.23.10 - 12:30 pm
reply
Excuse my coming late to the party, but as I see it Critical Mass needs to decide what it is. If it's a parade, then it needs to proceed as such. But if it's a bike ride to celebrate and promote cycling as a means of transportation, then it needs to obey all relevant traffic laws - to do otherwise is hypocritical.
I like Borfo's suggestion - why not just stop at the red lights? If I'm out riding with a group and some of us make it through the light and some don't, the ones who made it either slow down or pull over and wait for the others to catch up - simple.
Maybe Critical Mass should request that the LAPD NOT cork.
mr rollers responding to a
comment by md2
09.23.10 - 2:32 pm
reply
"But if it's a bike ride to celebrate and promote cycling as a means of transportation, then it needs to obey all relevant traffic laws - to do otherwise is hypocritical."
+1
dudeonabike responding to a
comment by mr rollers
09.23.10 - 2:35 pm
reply
my post said LACM should follow the rules of traffic, so as to not get tickets and conform to the standards that the LAPD wants to see, and I suppose other citizens of LA want to see. Thats fine. I have nothing really against it right now.
I dont think the LAPD should cork. Give them less reasons to be there and Im not saying it to knock the LAPD, but there is way more to do in LA than police us.
The riders that acting nuts are hurting LACM. If you want to pursue that style of riding, then do an alley cat race in my mind. Just leave the bullshit at home and try makng this thing positive, even if the cops weren't around.
Im on board with it, i even helped Borfo on the first LACM/LAPD ride to encourage project civil obedience or whatever it was called. Something has to change, lest we want to go to battle with the LAPD. I dont want to spend my time messing the LAPD over bike rides. I'm
trying to look beyond the LAPD.
md2 responding to a
comment by mr rollers
09.23.10 - 2:51 pm
reply
Just try it for once. Stop at all the reds.
Do it.
I DARE YOU!
Joe Borfo09.23.10 - 2:57 pm
reply
This is my last request to you guys:
Dare everyone to stay on the right hand lane and stop at all reds.
Treat it like an experiment / prank / subversion / whatever.
See what the results will be. That's what will make it interesting.
DUE ET
Joe Borfo09.23.10 - 3:12 pm
reply
it sure would make it a LOT MOAR F.U.N.!!! but how do you convince 2000 people to have moar fun?
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.23.10 - 3:30 pm
reply
RB, I know it's been a while since I've been at WPH, but I promise to make my comeback as soon as my back is better. Can't believe u forgot my name already... It's Manny not Danny... Haha... Was great riding back wit'cha after CM, it was epic seeing u climb that hill on d tall bike.
Now to the real subject in hand:
I say let's play their game & follow ALL the rules of the road. Last thing I want is for other bikers to get tackled off their bikes from behind as well for running red lights & riding on the opposite side of the road .
Yeah, ch7 left me out... Phuck them...
MannysCarWash responding to a
comment by Roadblock
09.23.10 - 5:30 pm
reply
which do you like better........narwhals or platypusses?
shotgun_mike09.23.10 - 5:49 pm
reply
SFCM rolls thru red lights with thousands of bikes. I know from experience. I never saw a SFPD give a hassle to the riders who were moving along in the ride. That said, however, Richie & I did see a bicyclist who was standing off his bike corking at an intersection get into trouble with SFPD. An officer on a SFPD Dual-Sport went strait towards him stopped an inch away from him, yelled at him to move along. The bicyclist just stood there not moving. the Officer rolled back a few feet revved up and charged,making minor but firm contact, and yelled "move on". This happened again. After this the guy with the bike wasn't moving and the Officer pulled back farther revved and SLAMMED into the guy knocking him down with force. I was in the moving sea of bikes, and that's all I saw, but I'd guess the guy probably got arrested/ticketed? I sure couldn't figure out that guys reasoning for not moving on when told the first time.
I went into SMPD with a few others a couple years ago, tried to reason why CM rolls thru lights. SMPD didn't buy it. I suggested that if the ride gets broken up by traffic lights, it will only make the line of bikes longer, and our traffic will take longer to move thru the area. This will mean longer for automobiles waiting. I know it wasn't the "original" intentions of Critical Mass, but I think it will be a bigger impact. It would be even more to the point if it is a fully legal ride, with more bicycle traffic. Bicycles win then, as we are traffic, and that to me is the point of critical mass rides.
I will miss this month due to work.
I say stop at the lights even if LAPD corks, keep it all the same. The joy of CM isn't only obtained at the front. It is the WHOLE experience. If it is so important to "be with 'those ridazz'", get there phone numbers and call to meet up with em later, if you don't already have the info. Definatly join up get some food & drink, talk about the ride, chill at a stop. Unless there is a 'Known After Party', you need to make one with the friends you meet there. It's were I didn't know anybody on the streets, here in LA seven years ago. I did a LACM, then a SMCM. SMCM was so small practically all of us would eat dinner @ Cha Cha Chicken at the end of the ride. I recognized ridazz, but I didn't know anyone. Luckily I sat next to Big Bike Dan, and we've been friends since.
I remember after a SMCM years ago a new kid came up to me, and invited me to a ride he & a buddy were hosting the next weekend. Skidmarcus has been way cool since then, even allowing me to jam with his killer band Funderstorm!
The list goes on...
Get to know each other, I think it's worth it. Hopefully you will too!
Ride On...
Gern09.23.10 - 6:12 pm
reply
see what happens when you stop riding with the pack?! LOL!!! dude I KNOW your name is Manny. that's a typo of course. thanks for babysitting my ass on that tall bike homeboy.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by MannysCarWash
09.23.10 - 6:20 pm
reply
"I say stop at the lights even if LAPD corks" -Gern
ATTA BOY! Now let's get this to happen. I'm going to do my best to make it happen.
I hope to see you there!
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Gern
09.23.10 - 7:20 pm
reply
Well, actually, if they do cork that presents a problem because we will be making them block traffic for nothing. or is that not really our problem? Either way. I really want to get people on board with this idea.
Joe Borfo09.23.10 - 7:25 pm
reply
A body in motion says in motion.
The natural tendency on a bike is to keep rolling until you reach an obstacle or destination.
It would take a very large concerted effort to get people to stop while the cops are corking.
Even without cops corking this will be difficult.
I agree with MD2 it is confusing to have the cops cork, but then be under threat of ticket if people cork or roll a red that LAPD is not corking. It creates confusion and sends mixed messages.
I think eventually LAPD will stop corking, and it will be easier (in theory to get people to stop at reds.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
09.23.10 - 7:31 pm
reply
Well I'm glad you could get your say.
I think it's still a concept that we could experiment with. But, I have no expectations of anyone entertaining the execution of doing so.
I'm proposing we defy the laws of physics.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by trickmilla
09.23.10 - 8:08 pm
reply
The demonstration will reveal the necessity for corking...
Still don't get it?
.. sigh.
Joe Borfo09.23.10 - 8:24 pm
reply
19 HOURS AWAY!..
almost 1,000 spoke cards done.
laminated by MOM RIDAZ and 5150!
Aktive_42009.24.10 - 12:57 am
reply
Gern,
Thanks for reiterating what I've been trying to explain. Not that anyone is ever really going to read it all and consider this, but I'm glad some of you have got a grasp of how getting people to stop at reds will take CM into a new and possibly more powerful plane.
Speaking of planes, are you really serious about getting sucked into that turbine on your profile or are you just fucking with us all?...
Peace.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Gern
09.24.10 - 1:51 am
reply
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Ridazz Roulette!
