When you ride towards the back of LACM you get to see all of the flashing lights and riders pulled over by the LAPD. Those who tend to ride towards the front may want to give it a try to see if their perspective changes with respect to LAPD treatment. Especially when you're trying to keep up with the pack and it's a rider near you who gets picked out of the crowd and made an example of by the police.



anty
10.30.10 - 2:07 pm

reply

@Sgt Kumer

Is it possible to get a ticket count by issuing officer? I thought there were some who were particularly aggressive at issuing tickets. I'm thinking of one motorcycle officer. It seems I kept seeing him writing tickets. I was left with the impression he'd issue a ticket then ride up to the next point to nail another rider.

At the same time, I pointed out to another motorcycle officer that I noticed the car in the number one lane was driving without headlights. I pointed at the car and he just kept riding.



mk4524
responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
10.30.10 - 2:15 pm

reply

last night was chill, the LAPD that were on bikes riding along with us were the only ones looking out for us ridazz. all the other LAPD were such dicks.Espaically the motorcycle cops and cops in cars cornerning people in and they rushing them and tackling them to the ground. it was uncalled for. I saw about 3 or 4 incidents like that occuring. It was just bad vibes through the night. Saw a kid get shoved off his bike because he wasnt holding his line. but come on now.. shove a kid off his bike and hit the ground just because of that...sure most people cant hold a line but that was uncalled for.
For the ride breaking up like that just makes it worst IMO. the more ridazz we have spread out will just cause havoc all through out LA. if we had the ride stick together, we wouldnt have the problems we are expierencing. We just need to go back to the LACM we had when LAPD where WITH us not against us. It seems like LAPD is just doing this to look the part of helping out the bike culture.



JLee
10.30.10 - 2:33 pm

reply

Good job Ninja Biker.

forget lights and helmets, bring your video cameras to LACM for now on.



md2
responding to a comment by Ninja biker
10.30.10 - 2:52 pm

reply

Once again, LAPD is going to make many of us cyclists rich.



revolution
responding to a comment by md2
10.30.10 - 3:00 pm

reply

Yes...from the forum posts....including some of my response to those posts.



Sgt. David Krumer
responding to a comment by krowfeather
10.30.10 - 3:51 pm

reply

When you get the video up please let me know. What you are describing is a use of force. Our policy is that if there is a use of force a supervisor needs to come out to the scene and begin an investigation...officers would not be allowed to just issue a ticket and ride away. If you know the affected person please have them contact me. Did you personally observe this? If so please email me...35128@lapd.lacity.org.





Sgt. David Krumer
responding to a comment by Ninja biker
10.30.10 - 3:55 pm

reply

An average speed of 19 and you guys ran red lights at the front?

You are an asshole and a big part of the problem.



gregb
responding to a comment by lacycle24
10.30.10 - 3:56 pm

reply

I will post a ticket count and breakdown. Although not by officer as I do not receive the info that way.



Sgt. David Krumer
responding to a comment by mk4524
10.30.10 - 4:00 pm

reply

It's like talking to a wall.



Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by gregb
10.30.10 - 4:12 pm

reply

Hello All Ridazz,

If you believe that excessive force was used or if you feel that an officer was unprodfessional than you can make a complaint...and I encourage you to do so. Most of these incidents seem to be in conjuction with a ticket. Since you have the officers name on that citation we can investigate that and take responcibility for the actions of our officers.

The LAPD can not and will not take responcibility for the length or pace of the ride, or the fact that it became fragmented. Additionally the officers can not be blamed for issuing citations itself so long as the citation was for a valid violation. Now if the issue is the manner in which that citation was issued (see first paragraph) than as I said we will take ownership of that.

To assist you I suggest the following:

Start a thread that indicates that you were the subject of a use of force or unprofessional behavior...state where you were and at what time and see if any other ridazz are witnesses. Make a complaint at the number I provided and get an investigator assigned...as witnesses identify themselves to you via the MR forum you can refer then to your investigator.

I highly recommend that on future rides you bring video/audio recorders and tape the behavior at issue. Because the LAPD does not tolerate some of the things you indicated, we welcome any audio/video evidence that will help us identify officers who do not live up to the standards we set. The LAPD thanks you for helping us weed out bad officers.

David



Sgt. David Krumer
10.30.10 - 4:22 pm

reply

We try to police ourselves, and you are not happy.
You bring your friends out to police us. They are now breaking the laws as well.
So now you ask us to police you? Grow the fuck up Krumer. You guys are public employees, do your fucking jobs.



revolution
responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
10.30.10 - 4:26 pm

reply

I didn't realize you were an officer.

If you are an officer, and you saw multiple people repeatedly run red lights dangerously at the front of the pack, why did you not ticket these people? Why not call for backup to ticket these scofflaws? They are the problem. I don't understand LAPD.



gregb
responding to a comment by lacycle24
10.30.10 - 4:29 pm

reply

Sorry but most of you on this forum just don't get it.
The LAPD is out to disrupt and discourage participation of the ride.

Sgt Kummer is playing the role of good cop, attempting to put a happy face
on the goon squad that is the LAPD.

Pathetic........



Dedicated818
10.30.10 - 4:37 pm

reply

Internal affairs is a joke as you Police police yourself's,
and I do know what I am talking about as I was involved in a law suite against
the LAPD. The settlement I received was sweet justice for bad police conduct.



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
10.30.10 - 4:43 pm

reply

"Please listen to Sgt Krumer so that we can make this ride safe for everyone and not have any accidents like we did last night."

What does this mean? Were there accidents last night or not? Was the ride safe for everyone last night or not? Your sentence can be read two ways; that we listened to Sgt Krumer last night and didn't have any accidents and need to keep doing that, or that we didn't listen to Sgt Krumer and had accidents.

Also, how are one thousand plus people 90+% of whom never read this website going to listen to Sgt Krumer? A 90 second PSA before the ride?

Despite all the problems, I rode all night from Del Rey to Western and Wilshire, back to Venice, back to Western and Wilshire to drop off two riders for whom this was their first ride, and then back to Del Rey. 55 miles in total. I didn't get home til 2 am. The two new riders loved it.





gregb
responding to a comment by lacycle24
10.30.10 - 4:47 pm

reply

We averaged less than 10mph.



gregb
10.30.10 - 4:49 pm

reply

Man this is never going to work this was a bad idea..Sgt is it going to take you a month again to get us the info on does infractions..I'm pretty sure you could get the name of does cops too..



El_Fredone
10.30.10 - 4:56 pm

reply

Don't underestimate how many people read this site. Traffc
is typically 7-8k unique visits per day. Just cause they don't all bicker on the forum doesn't mean they aren't reading and lurking.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by gregb
10.30.10 - 5:14 pm

reply

:(



godmode
responding to a comment by El_Fredone
10.30.10 - 5:52 pm

reply

One of the cops yelled at me for going faster than him. We shouldn't tolerate that!



godmode
10.30.10 - 5:53 pm

reply

This CM really did suck. The leaders split the ride, the cops split the groups. Glad I didn't take the bmx last night.



Rage
10.30.10 - 6:08 pm

reply

Operation Right Turn--

Critical Mass November 2010--

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left--

If you get stopped for a light, convince everyone to turn right. Critical mass doesn't have leaders. You don't have to catch the pack. YOU are the leader. Make your own mass!

If your group makes a light, its your turn to lead. Fight to the front of the pack and get them to turn right. YOU are the leader. Make your own mass! No rider left behind!

NO LEFT TURNS!!!!



gregb
responding to a comment by Roadblock
10.30.10 - 6:24 pm

reply

I'm not the only one who got good videos either.

But seriously this needs to be seen by Chief Beck so we can ask him WTF happened to his promise about protecting cyclists, when it's his own guys doing most of the harm.



Ninja biker
responding to a comment by md2
10.30.10 - 6:27 pm

reply

This guys think we are a threat..worst LACM hopefully next month is not like this..and about turning right I don't think that's a good idea..



El_Fredone
10.30.10 - 6:49 pm

reply

Welcome to the wonderful world of "Us vs. Them".

A sick and twisted land where wars of attrition between two major elements in a large city tear the fibers of sanity apart and unleash a flood of wholesale maelstrom.




bentstrider
10.30.10 - 7:29 pm

reply

Left turns suck.

Only about 10 riders can legally make it through. Every other one is running a red light or impeding traffic coming from the other direction. Then the motorcycle cops randomly pick one of the next 50 riders to ticket and break up the mass.

Left turns suck.



gregb
responding to a comment by El_Fredone
10.30.10 - 7:36 pm

reply

you know what the cops should cork for us when we make left turns..



El_Fredone
responding to a comment by gregb
10.30.10 - 7:49 pm

reply

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKzDLCB9n-E



Oiler10
responding to a comment by trickmilla
10.30.10 - 8:02 pm

reply

"The LAPD is out to disrupt and discourage participation of the ride."

Not quite right...we encourage responcible participation. If requiring cyclists to stop at the reds is disruptive than I guess we are...but not because that is the intent.





Sgt. David Krumer
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
10.30.10 - 8:24 pm

reply

anyone wanna reply

http://www.midnightridazz.com/forums.php?topicId=16360&pgnum=1



Oiler10
10.30.10 - 8:32 pm

reply

I'm not the only one who got good videos either.

But seriously this needs to be seen by Chief Beck so we can ask him WTF happened to his promise about protecting cyclists, when it's his own guys doing most of the harm.

If you get me the videos or post them and send me the link, Chief Beck will see it.




Sgt. David Krumer
responding to a comment by Ninja biker
10.30.10 - 8:33 pm

reply

they they didnt cork bitches just gave tickets



Oiler10
responding to a comment by gregb
10.30.10 - 8:33 pm

reply

What we need are semi-tractors randomly breaking down in the middle of the intersections.
Mass swerves around the blockage, driver takes the heat for unexpected mechanical difficulties, we all ride to a clear place and sing "cum bai yah" at the end of the night.



bentstrider
responding to a comment by gregb
10.30.10 - 8:38 pm

reply

wassup dawg!



Aktive_420
responding to a comment by lacycle24
10.30.10 - 10:07 pm

reply

Did you lead this CM?



gregb
responding to a comment by Aktive_420
10.30.10 - 10:17 pm

reply

we should have a huge smoke out, chill.... ride.... just ride.



Aktive_420
10.30.10 - 10:20 pm

reply

i didnt make it out to LACM at all. im fighting of a cold so i just stayed home... why do you ask?



Aktive_420
responding to a comment by gregb
10.30.10 - 10:21 pm

reply

Did one of your homeboys lead the ride..



El_Fredone
responding to a comment by Aktive_420
10.30.10 - 10:37 pm

reply

I have issues with the route from last night. I was in the middle of the pack, and we never stopped at a Ralph's or anywhere else. We rode for two hours straight; we had bicycle cops with us, and no one knew where the front of the pack was. A few of us pulled off the road near Bikerowave and watched for over 20 minutes as intermittent packs (large packs, some with cops--motorcycle and bike) would pass by--mostly looking lost. So no one knew where the ride was going, since we weren't leading, and no one knew where to re-group. I don't care about staying together but we can't be a Critical Mass if after a few miles we all string out. The re-groups at parks and rolling out together helps to strengthen the ride and bring us all back together for a strong end.

Sorry to say, this ride really did suck. The PD did make it more dangerous--there were times I would yell stopping at a red, and LAPD bike cops would run it, and instead of riders behind me following my example, they saw LAPD running lights and went right with them, which probably earned the tickets from overly aggressive and dangerously driving motorcycle cops.

The ride home was fantastic because eventually another small group on the way home caught up with us and we had a guy with a music box, plus Alex's huge bike cart with the Cyclist's Bill of Rights. Most in our group were dressed up, and so we had a little parade from Venice back to Hollywood. Rocked out to the tunes, got some positive notice from motorists, and it was chill all the way home--with no LAPD.

I second Roadblock's suggestion. I would prefer to know the re-group points, and enjoy a chill, law-abiding commute with my group of friends to the re-group. The way it is now--at the start, the slow speed is extremely dangerous because most of the riders can't control their bikes at 5mph. I had a number of close calls with wobbly riders because of the slow speed with a very dense pack. Then towards the end it was more dangerous because the LAPD was giving mixed signals and doing the whole leapfrog thing. Plus, LAPD would pull over someone and stop their car or bike right in the path of where the mass was coming. So all of a sudden the pack would yell STOPPING or SLOWING, and again we'd have the dangerous density issue. Is it really so important to nab that cyclist that you put other citizens in danger?

Roadblock's idea--if we announce the re-groups, it's still not announcing a route. And it can be more fun. You might hook up with a variety of different groups, then peel off and make your own route. And drivers would have more trouble trying to avoid us as we would be on every street, not just an unannounced parade route.

Looking forward to Thanksgiving mass; hoping it's better.



danceralamode
10.30.10 - 11:17 pm

reply

"Again, I was at the front as I am always and we had a great ride. I was hearing on the radio of all the issues that were occuring to the middle and rear of the ride. "

Then you are to blame for the fragmented ride. Your average speed of 19mph, expllains how we got so steatched out from the get go.

Your route, I can only say that last months ride was so much better.

What where you doing hearing on the radio?

The police last month vs ths month . It was night and day. The motorcycle units sat at every intersicton to give tickets,last month they corked the intersections for us.

Last month they kept telling us to stay to the right, this month twice I had motor units force to the right of the right lane into the curve.

Name change for LACM...LA Ticket in Mass.



twinns2boy1
responding to a comment by lacycle24
10.30.10 - 11:19 pm

reply

Just saying this now I led Critical Mass with a friend (I was dressed as a skunk) First of all, some of you need to stop complaining about the ride going to the Westside. If you have a suggestion for the route, speak up! Just because the people's ride starts at ten doesn't mean that we are going to make LACM short and rush to People's Ride. Second, if you attend CM and complain about the LAPD being there, then why go? Yea I understand that cops on motorcycles were being dicks and all but why complain on the forums. Why don't you actually DO something about it. Arrange meetings to help find a more peaceful solution to this problem. Don't just sit there and wait for a response because in reality you aren't gonna get anything solved. Hopefully if there is meeting about this problem, i better hope to see you all there. Dont hide behind a monitor and actually stand up for your rights as a cyclist!






palucha66
10.31.10 - 3:05 am

reply

Very well said



crossbones
responding to a comment by palucha66
10.31.10 - 7:12 am

reply

HAHA!

So Rad.


Just follow PEPE LE PEW!



Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by palucha66
10.31.10 - 8:37 am

reply

fuck palucha!...

jk!



Aktive_420
responding to a comment by palucha66
10.31.10 - 8:52 am

reply

@ sgt. krumer videos wont work if i remember hearing a lady cop that seemed to have more stripes on her arm then most cops did say to the rest of them and thre had to have been atleast 15 - 17 cops for me she said "hey guys there is a person recording over there control yourselves!" i find that funny giving how all the cops instantly stopped being dicks and haveing their attitudes and such.



thecrazywall
10.31.10 - 9:47 am

reply

Fuck the police! There purpose on lacm is to fuck your night up..... fuck you pigs



Debut213
10.31.10 - 10:04 am

reply

Hi crazywall,

Well thats why I encourage as many people recording as possible. The goal is to insure that officers live up to the standards that the Department sets. The supervisors can not be looking over every officers shoulder (and really don't need to as most officers do the right thing)...by having a recording device you become the "supervisor" in a sense by identifing inappropriate behavior that a LAPD supervisor may not be present to see. As you mentioned, after the warning the officers began to behave differently. Just as officers try to compel certain behavior (i.e. observance of the traffic laws)...you can compel certain behavior as well (i.e. professional and curteous enforcement practices by officers).

An officer doing the right thing has nothing to hide and should not fear being recorded.





Sgt. David Krumer
responding to a comment by thecrazywall
10.31.10 - 11:39 am

reply

Sgt Krumer,

I know you've given your email out in the past but right now can't find it. Could you send it to me? I'd like to send you a more personal note.

I'm at mk4524 at yahoo dot com.

Thanks.



mk4524
responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
10.31.10 - 12:43 pm

reply

35128@lapd.lacity.org



Sgt. David Krumer
10.31.10 - 4:20 pm

reply

@palucha66 My problem is not that the ride went to the Westside; it's that the ride never re-grouped. You've got a ride of 1000+ spread out across LA and Venice in groups of 20 to 30 and it never re-grouped. at 9:15 we were still riding straight out with no sign of a destination.

"If you have a suggestion for the route, speak up! Just because the people's ride starts at ten doesn't mean that we are going to make LACM short and rush to People's Ride. " That's exactly what we are doing. You go on to say if we are unhappy then do something about it. We are: we are on a forum discussing what we thought worked and didn't work. Telling people to "stop complaining" is to say that no one is allowed to offer any feedback on the ride. How else are we supposed to effectively allow thousands of people to voice an opinion of what's working and not working? Are you going to schedule a community meeting to talk about it? I don't think so, so please don't come on the forum and tell everyone that posting a comment here is just "complaining". I came on here and made my suggestion, which was to make sure there is a point at which we re-group. As another poster commented, if you're always in the front, you don't really know how the ride is going, you're just dictating the route. I thought the route was fine, but the ride was a mess.

A lot of us are complaining about LAPD because of their behavior; and to say "do something" is just...a lot of people who are posting here ARE doing something. They are filing their reports, going to meetings where LAPD are present, and asking questions, etc. Just because they post it on a forum doesn't mean thats all they are doing. The forum is here to let us share opinions about what's going on.

How can you say you want people to "speak up", yet you don't want them to post what they didn't like and what they do want on the forum? You can't have it both ways.

It's also funny that you're at the front dictating the route, but you think you're leading CM. If you're in the middle or near the back, you weren't leading the route. When it gets broken up into 15 or more groups of riders, there are many leaders, and a lot of us take on leadership roles to make the ride safe--yelling out to stop at a light or having to determine the route because the rest of the mass is nowhere in sight but there are 200 riders behind me and we have no clue where the re-group will be. It's total chaos. If you were leading the ride, then you would have remembered that back at Wilshire/Western there were more than 1000 riders and that a re-group point was going to be needed at some point between the start and Venice Beach.

Dude, my beef isn't with you though. You're just trying to make a great route and hold to the spirit of LACM--and I loved taking Mass through WeHo and then to Venice. But again, to second Roadblock's suggestion, this would have been better to just pinpoint different regroup points--one in WeHo, one in Culver City, and one all the way out in Venice Beach, and we all break into 4 or 5 groups to get there however we wish. We were basically in 20 groups last night anyhow, doing 20 different rides. The only thing we needed was actual re-group points. There's nothing wrong with a planned re-group point. We already post the beginning and the usual end at Western and Sunset.

So chill out, know that people are going to post what they like and don't like on the forum no matter what, and enjoy your Halloween.




danceralamode
responding to a comment by palucha66
10.31.10 - 4:28 pm

reply

This is just my thought i believe the next critical mass route should be planned out ahead of time like destination and or re group stop. So at least other riders should have a general idea just in case the group breaks up. Last months ride i believe was more organize and i had a great time.



ehilado
10.31.10 - 7:46 pm

reply

Where are the 1000+ people the other 29-30 days of each month?



barleye
10.31.10 - 10:12 pm

reply

jeez, will you stop your complaining already?



md2
responding to a comment by danceralamode
10.31.10 - 10:43 pm

reply

As palucha once said, "hiding under your bed with El cuy cuy".
Honestly, this is a good question that has perplexed most for some time.

My unadulterated guess would be the generic one of most of them being composed of cool kids who look forward to this ride as something on their "personal activities calendar".



bentstrider
responding to a comment by barleye
11.1.10 - 1:47 am

reply

I have some suggestions:

http://engagedobserver.blogspot.com/2010/10/los-angeles-critical-mass-october-2010.html

Police aren't to blame, we are. If riders at the front don't wait for the mass, the police can pick us off with ease. If we stay tight in one mass, it's just not gonna happen.



alexdc
11.1.10 - 7:30 am

reply

hmm, I believe there was a route and destination.... motorcycle officers were ahead and aligned throughout the route before we hit certain streets... and now we now there were two leaders (palucha & friend)...but I will not call them leaders this time since I have been corrected many times and call them influencers....

to these influencers... how was the route & destination selected? why was it selected? my question arrives because selecting melrose while a great street to ride on with a mass of cyclists, it appeared that bicycle officers did not "cork" and wanted cyclists to stop at every red light and on melrose those lights are not far from each other....

but this ride does illustrate what i have been trying to say for awhile... the mass, the cyclists in the middle or the back do not have any influence on where the ride may or could go... I still would like to see some kind of system set up were random people are selected and let that rider start the ride and head in the direction...if they dont know the area... better...

@barleye... as i rode, i thought the same thing... where are these 1000 + riders... for fast cyclists...they should come out to WPH... that is an intense speed ride...

Influencers need to remember that new cyclists come out and may not be in riding shape... my first CM was an awesome experience and i remember those influencers had re-groups and those influencers would allow some green lights to cycle over to wait for the mass....

@palucha.... I do not know danceralamode personally or anything, however, following her blog or twitter feed (i am not endorsing either) she has been active in cycling meetings, bike plans and other cyclists rights events, she has fallen into or somewhat become a bicycle activist....

@alex.... I read your blog and your ideas are good, hopefully we can get some of them implemented...









dayone
responding to a comment by ehilado
11.1.10 - 9:19 am

reply

In honor of dia de los muertos LACM is dead.

Every month a LACM thread is started with "lets make this better" yadda yadda yadda and at the end of the ride a thread is created "critical mass sucked"

Same story gets old......


RIP LACM






Foldie
11.1.10 - 9:25 am

reply

@ Sgt. David Krumer well said but what happens to us that got tickets? the rumor is they might get dropped? so i heard from the people that were riding LACM hopefully they do because it was so unfair that police in cars and motorcycles didnt block for us so we can make the right/left turns, they just watched us turn and gave tickets away by stopping 2 people while 50-80 cyclist making that turn didnt get any.



Oiler10
responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
11.1.10 - 9:30 am

reply

I think I'm steering towards Foldie's revelation.....LACM IS DEAD...at least for me as of today...I may be back or I may encourage others to come to another bike ride I or someone else may put on the same night....

It's been said many times on this site...There are group rides EVERY night of the week making a presence on Los Angeles streets. We don't need 1000+ riders to make the point that we do the other 30 days each month. If L.A. didn't have the rides nightly, I would think otherwise.



barleye
responding to a comment by Foldie
11.1.10 - 10:24 am

reply

I consider myself new to Critical Mass so I'm asking this:
When, where and what time are this CM discussion meetings taking place?
Do they happen at a time when most people(those not in "the industry") can assist?
Because if these happen at 2:00 P.M. on a Tuesday, Most people with a regular job are not going to show up.





ericduville
responding to a comment by dayone
11.1.10 - 10:25 am

reply

LACM is not dead. The LACM you knew might be, but like any living organism it changes over time. Embrace change and you'll live a longer happier life.

It's frustrating to hear cyclists complain to the police for being cited for violations of the CVC. The CVC is the document by which all vehicles are able to coexist peacefully, in theory.

Yesterday I saw a cyclist pull up to a red light next to an LAPD cruiser. He looked both ways and ran the red light. He was pulled over half a block later. Thank you LAPD. We don't yet have Idaho Stop rules in Los Angeles, so what he did, as safe as it may appear, was a violation of CVC.

Critical Mass is an event chock full of CVC violations, and the fact that police aren't sending hundreds of officers out to cite every single offender is a good thing. From what I saw, they were citing cyclists who were egregiously ignoring warnings about crossing the double yellow, riding without lights, riding without helmets for the youngins, or running red lights outside of the Mass. I have no problem with any of these citations.

We're doing something ILLEGAL! Remember that. The fact that we have such a great relationship with LAPD is awesome, but don't forget you're violating not just a law, but the most sacrosanct taboo in all of car culture, the red light! People get very emotional when they see us running the red, and it's not just because it's a violation of CVC, it goes much deeper than that.





alexdc
11.1.10 - 10:27 am

reply

Hi Oiler10,

The LAPD will not cancel the tickets but you may be able to challenge them in court.

At one point the LAPD offered to cork if a route was selected and if there was a little preplanning. Basically if LACM was going to be treated as a rolling parade or cycling "event" than we would faciitate. There was great resistance to giving LACM structure and the powers that be decided that they just want to ride the streets as traffic. Becuase you are riding as traffic you have to follow the rules of the road...without any special accomodation.

You mentioned that it was unfair that we did not cork, but I would say it is unfair for ridazz to expect us to cork as they want to receive all the benefits of a parade without complying with any of the requisites.

There are many who say that it is unfair that only a few people get cited rather than the 50-80 who might have committed the same violation. As far as challenging the citation in court this logic will not fly as the pertinant question is whether the 2 or 3 folks that did get caught actually comitted the violation. A better strategy would be to claim some of the things that were discussed on these forums such as the confussion created by inconsistant corking, the fear of being rear ended by cyclists who would not stop, etc.

Hope that helps.



Sgt. David Krumer
responding to a comment by Oiler10
11.1.10 - 10:37 am

reply

palucha gives me hope.

In fact, I watched The Omen for the first time last night and it was a documentary I can really get behind. It gave me this sense of optimism that I haven't experienced before. Damien was 5 years old when the film came out, so he must be about 40 years old now. I think we're on course for really great changes in society once he finally takes his seat in the political world, and he's at the age to do so.

With the elections tomorrow, I don't feel like my Netflix queue was a coincidence.

This is hope you can believe in.



md2
responding to a comment by Foldie
11.1.10 - 10:44 am

reply

read between the lines.



alexdc
11.1.10 - 10:48 am

reply

Yesterday I saw a cyclist pull up to a red light next to an LAPD cruiser. He looked both ways and ran the red light. He was pulled over half a block later. Thank you LAPD.

I too thank law enforcement whenever they enforce the law. Sure in the future our current CVC and laws in general may be found unjust or erroneous, but that matters not. Just knowing that laws are being enforced really makes my day -- Thank You LAPD.

I recall the stories my ancestors spoke of when the courts entered their private bedrooms, since it was a capital crime to have "unnatural sex" in some states and around the world. I sometimes sit back and retroactively thank those officers for doing their duty in those times.

Sure, it harmed no one (and evidently no one outside a couple's bedroom) via their sexual choices, but let's not think about what appears to be safe and seemingly okay to do, for it is THE LAW that matters. Today, yes, we know they were wrong and unjust, but I follow the law only.

And we all know laws are crafted for everyone's benefit and good.



md2
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.1.10 - 10:58 am

reply

And we all know laws are crafted for everyone's benefit and good

"the safety of citizens, the preservation of states, and the tranquility and happiness of human life." In this view, "wicked and unjust statutes" are "anything but 'laws,'" because "in the very definition of the term 'law' there inheres the idea and principle of choosing what is just and true."[16] Law, for Cicero, "ought to be a reformer of vice and an incentive to virtue."[17] Cicero expressed the view that "the virtues which we ought to cultivate, always tend to our own happiness, and that the best means of promoting them consists in living with men in that perfect union and charity which are cemented by mutual benefits."





Foldie
responding to a comment by md2
11.1.10 - 11:05 am

reply

If you don't like the law, then work to change the law.

Let's have an Idaho Stop themed bike ride! Let's get a parade permit and simulate how cyclists would behave with Idaho Stop laws in effect.

For those that don't know, in Idaho, a cyclist can treat a stop sign as a Yield sign & treat a red light as a stop sign.



alexdc
responding to a comment by md2
11.1.10 - 12:57 pm

reply

well am done with LACM for now, cant afford to get another ticket if police aint going to block for us like they used to and just watch us by waiting to get hit by a car,all i can say is get ur shit straighten out . PEACE LACM have fun with dirty cops that got punked in middle school/high school and pick on small kids. enuf said ┌∩┐ (>_<) ┌∩┐



Oiler10
11.1.10 - 1:01 pm

reply

Damien got into the political world at 32 in Omen III.



graciela
responding to a comment by md2
11.1.10 - 1:07 pm

reply

Did you look at this?

http://www.midnightridazz.com/forums.php?searchType=title&showThreads=1&keyword=ticket&topicId=3829

Did you look at this?

http://www.midnightridazz.com/forums.php?topicId=16360&pgnum=1

Good luck with your ticket.



gregb
responding to a comment by Oiler10
11.1.10 - 1:24 pm

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oh, well then, I shall familiarize myself with his political party. Thank you.



md2
responding to a comment by graciela
11.1.10 - 1:27 pm

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That's too bad. We'll miss you.



alexdc
responding to a comment by Oiler10
11.1.10 - 1:30 pm

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i think everyone will lol



Oiler10
11.1.10 - 1:36 pm

reply

This ride isn't fun anymore.
Sorry, Get over it.



rayrayray
11.1.10 - 1:39 pm

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This is what I dont get.

If you think the Idaho law makes sense and should be adapted in CA, then why would you thank an officer for enforcing a portion of the CVC you want to see changed?

Maybe you have a hierarchy of principles where enforcement of laws trump whether a law is bad or not. So then laws must be adhered to unless changed? Why is that?

But forget these seemingly meaningless asks of civil disobedience in general. My point is more about why you would "thank" the LAPD in that case.

In fact, I still wonder whether L.A. has "order". Does it? Is this order? Do the cops maintain the degree of order that exists? Or do they help create the lack of a better ( more ideal) order in society? If you restrict our analysis toward traffic -- I dont think order exists, so I dont think the LAPD is maintaining anything worthwhile anyway (if the argument is that they do).




md2
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.1.10 - 1:47 pm

reply

All of you guys just worry and complain too much.

Just shut up and ride your bikes.





Joe Borfo
11.1.10 - 1:52 pm

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I know, it's hard to understand.

Let me put it this way. I hope the LAPD enforces all laws at all times equally and without prejudice. I'd be much safer riding my bike on the road if that was the case. This includes a cyclist running a red light RIGHT IN FRONT OF A SQUAD CAR! (Note the all caps, that's for emphasis.) That cyclist was basically saluting the cops with a middle finger, begging for a ticket. His wish was answered.

I hope the LAPD has a chance to enforce Idaho Stop someday, so today I support them enforcing existing CVC.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. What is bad about the law compelling vehicles to stop at red lights? That's not meaningless to me, or anyone hit by a red light driver.

Yes, laws must be adhered to. Why is that? So there is order. As citizens, we surrender some of our liberties so that we may coexist peacefully. Liberties like shitting in the street or driving on the sidewalk have a way of interfering with other people's lives.

Cops, as you call them, aren't here to babysit the public. They are here to maintain order, as best they can, given the resources they're provided and the political pressure they are placed under. If you aren't happy with the LAPD, and you are a citizen, I suggest you vote for someone who represents your values into City Council, City Attorney, Mayor and any other elected office you're eligible to vote for. Or, you should run yourself if you fail to find a suitable candidate. Alternatively, there are other places you could choose to live.

Why do you think LAPD attends Critical Mass? Because they like writing tickets for cyclists? Think hard about that question, and you might find someone better to blame for whatever grievences you might have against the police.

Personally, I think LAPD is doing a fine job. Every officer I spoke to at Critical Mass is aware of the tragedy of hit and runs and wants nothing more than to see the streets become safer for all of us.



alexdc
responding to a comment by md2
11.1.10 - 2:20 pm

reply

Critical Masses don't die, we multiply.




trickmilla
11.1.10 - 2:20 pm

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Agreed, and OWN IT! If you're gonna run that light, respect yourself enough not to whine about your ticket.



alexdc
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
11.1.10 - 2:22 pm

reply

Zoom Wheeeee!





Joe Borfo
11.1.10 - 2:24 pm

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Well, just to note, by "meaningless" i meant the act of running a red does little in regard to substantive civil disobedience. It's a stupid act of disobedience in my mind, IF, the goal were some kind of way to change or expose existing laws.

The point was that you noted the cyclist seemed to do so safely, and you appeared to believe the Idaho law was something worth adopting. I do believe that it is okay for cyclist to run reds if done so safely. I dont care what the law says about reds, but of course everyone runs the risk of getting a ticket if a cops is present. Does this mean you would thank a cop who spotted you safely jaywalking?

I see nothing special in noting a squad car was present, because if you think you're riding safely, etc., why should you fear the police more than another car/person you see (this all plays into the hierarchy that poisons society, in my opinion) ? The point being, sure you take the risks if you run a red hoping the cop notices you're doing so with a sense for safety (opposed to running a red in front of non squad cars). However, I'm not going to praise an officer for ticketing a rider just because his ego got hurt.

And I think you're playing more into the equation that officers ticket out of hurt egos more than a concern for "actual" safety. How dare someone break the law in front of cop, right? Why is that different than the doing so in front of you or I?

So, why do I think LAPD attends Critical Mass?

Because they got caught on video kicking and tackling a cyclist. Why do you think they attend?

We're largely on the same page -- we want safer streets.

So, yes, lets go out and ride our bikes (for now Im stuck inside/ online, sorry).



md2
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.1.10 - 2:42 pm

reply

"Does this mean you would thank a cop who spotted you safely jaywalking?"

YES! I enjoy the thrill of the hunt, the reward for the chase, all that darwinism shizz!

"why should you fear the police more than another car/person you see (this all plays into the hierarchy that poisons society, in my opinion) ?"

Who's talking about fear? It clearly mattered to the guy who got the ticket! He should have communicated before running the light if he was at all worried about receiving a citation. I don't know, maybe he wanted to be cited so he could have an excuse for missing a date with his girlfriend. I try not to ascribe motivations to people's actions.

"And I think you're playing more into the equation that officers ticket out of hurt egos more than a concern for "actual" safety. How dare someone break the law in front of cop, right? Why is that different than the doing so in front of you or I? "

I wish I was an undercover cop soo bad! And it's not because I was picked on as a kid. From my perspective, there are a lot of absolute morons milling about Los Angeles. Some happen to ride bikes, and that's OK.

"Why do you think they attend?"

Because the city attorney is getting heat from higher ups and is putting heat on the Chief to reign us in. Cyclists are a political force in this town, but we're not the most powerful political force. With a little elbow grease, we could be pressuring the city council to pass better laws protecting us, we could pressure LADOT to pass a better bike plan for us, we could pressure LAUSD to educate kids on bike laws at a young age, like they do in Copenhagen.

Agreed, that we are on the same page, and I'm looking forward to riding my bike, hopefully today!












alexdc
responding to a comment by md2
11.1.10 - 2:58 pm

reply

we could be pressuring the city council to pass better laws protecting us,

--CVC is state law, anything city council will do it toothless

we could pressure LADOT to pass a better bike plan for us,
--Like the great plan in 1972 or 1996 they implemented. Good luck with that!

we could pressure LAUSD to educate kids on bike laws at a young age, like they do in Copenhagen.
--LAUSD can't handle teaching kids the basics of reading and writing, so teaching law is a far stretch!



Foldie
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.1.10 - 3:05 pm

reply

Fuck all this, I'm bringing a horse on LACM and jumping over traffic!!!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE











Ha.



bentstrider
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.1.10 - 3:10 pm

reply

so lay down and take it like a?????



alexdc
responding to a comment by Foldie
11.1.10 - 3:12 pm

reply

YES! I enjoy the thrill of the hunt, the reward for the chase, all that darwinism shizz!

awesome, you would make a good wingman at the local watering hole. Til then.



md2
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.1.10 - 3:13 pm

reply

That is what I usually do but only with md2 or borfo.......Your mileage may very.



Foldie
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.1.10 - 3:15 pm

reply

I'll file that under "stay away from foldie, md2 & borfo"



alexdc
responding to a comment by Foldie
11.1.10 - 3:18 pm

reply

politically speaking, we're still learning to walk. But without goals, what can you do? Look at Stephen Box, Bikeside, Roadblock, and all the rockstars of cycling advocacy in Los Angeles. They inspire me with what they are doing. I'm just a schmohawk with a bicycle rickshaw!



alexdc
responding to a comment by Foldie
11.1.10 - 3:22 pm

reply

I agree there are some good folks out there doing some good work. I am just a schmuck with a foldie. what do i know.....



Foldie
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.1.10 - 3:37 pm

reply

I sell foldies!

http://stridala.wordpress.com/



alexdc
responding to a comment by Foldie
11.1.10 - 3:42 pm

reply

Sweet!



Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.1.10 - 3:44 pm

reply

I saw a dude with one of those in Subway the other day. The chrome ones look sweet.



Foldie
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.1.10 - 3:45 pm

reply

Nice. Metro is thinking about offering a 25% off rebate for people to buy folding bikes, to increase ridership.



alexdc
responding to a comment by Foldie
11.1.10 - 4:06 pm

reply

Apparently, LACM and LAPD need to take a trip to Long Beach to show Chief McDonnell how to handle a Crticial Mass ride:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/cyclists-cited-bikes-impounded-in-long-beach-critical-mass-ride.html



alexdc
11.1.10 - 4:20 pm

reply

u didnt lead the ride fo!!! I was in the front and never saw u!!! i did c u takin to the pigs so i guess u could b a narc. how come they didnt arrest u for curfew violation?




fixie4life
responding to a comment by palucha66
11.1.10 - 8:28 pm

reply

quiet down allan.



palucha66
responding to a comment by fixie4life
11.1.10 - 8:32 pm

reply

all the leaders ware gone on the CM!!!

Aktive_420 GONE
| Roadblock GONE
Joe Borfo GONE
trickmilla GONE

if ur goin to change the ride u should ride it right? dont invite the pigs then never go on the ride!!!!

MY FRIENDS SAIDS THANKS!!!!



fixie4life
11.1.10 - 8:35 pm

reply

this is why i dont stay here more than 10 minutes.

y do u lie to people pacuby666?





fixie4life
responding to a comment by palucha66
11.1.10 - 8:37 pm

reply

So what's the plan..or are we going to wait till next month..



El_Fredone
11.2.10 - 2:33 pm

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The plan is we ride.

The end.



Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by El_Fredone
11.2.10 - 2:35 pm

reply

This shit is dead we should of never invited the cop..



El_Fredone
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
11.2.10 - 2:38 pm

reply

You can call it whatever you want but there was never an invite.

If we keep breaking road rules then the cops keep inviting themselves. It's not really that complicated.



Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by El_Fredone
11.2.10 - 2:46 pm

reply

If you can't take the heat, then stay out of the kitchen.



bentstrider
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
11.2.10 - 4:02 pm

reply

"all the leaders ware gone on the CM!!!

Aktive_420 GONE
| Roadblock GONE
Joe Borfo GONE
trickmilla GONE

if ur goin to change the ride u should ride it right? dont invite the pigs then never go on the ride!!!!

MY FRIENDS SAIDS THANKS!!!!

fixie4life
11.1.10 - 11:35 pm"

MY FRIENDS SAIDS UR WELCOMES!!!!

I showed up about 15-20 mins late to find a group of 5 people who also missed the ride we had one clue as to where LACM was headed, then rode for about an hour until we got our next tip.

We mashed all over the city linking up with more and more ridazz.
We hardly ever stopped except to regroup.
We held tight as a group for about 90 mins picking up a few awesome peeps along the way.

So many beautiful happenstances such as seeing roadblock ripping through the city on a mission and flagging him down asking for CM directions.

We were clueless in west hollywood, then one of our ridazz got a call from a friend (not even on the ride) that was at the bikrowave and just mass blow by.

Then we picked up a rollerblader who was cool a fuck and super fast he was keeping up better than some of the bikes.

About 2 hours in we were rolling in a group of about 15 when we finally caught the ride.
It was so rad, To have chased it so long, then to be cutting into the front group.

Many had already peeled off for various reasons.
Bu we rode in the big group all the way back to mid-city where i peeled off.

As usual.
Late to critical mass
and as usual
I had a blast meeting people, working together, and chasing the ride.

The only downer was that a lot of people we talked to were annoyed by the cops behavior on the ride and on our way back up venice they seemed to be creepin around almost every corner and poppin kids for bullshit.






trickmilla
responding to a comment by fixie4life
11.2.10 - 5:06 pm

reply

I think its fucking hilarious that the only thing i have ever been accused of being a "leader" of, is a bike ride that I am usually late to, occasionally dropped from and have spent maybe 1% of my time anywhere near the front of.

I'm redefining leadership yo! ... jes we can!




trickmilla
11.2.10 - 5:17 pm

reply

hmmm, I believe aktive420 tried many times to have gatherings of individuals that wanted to try and guide and influence the ride in a positive manner... however, i am not sure if anyone showed up, a handful, or 500 ppl.... he attempted to have the meetings at different days, times, and locations...

what i would like to see is perhaps some positive ideas thrown out here... the rock stars of cycling or people of influence should consider coming to an understanding of guidelines that could work for LACM...whether they are true to the CM ideology or an evolved version of CM...

Alexdc blog has some good ideas and no one is expanding on it or criticize it constructively....

I do not agree with Alexdc about laws and police officers following those laws straight by the book.... Police officers are able to use discretion when they pull ppl over and discretion demonstrates restrainst and understanding... if that cyclists did not impede any vehicles, did not make a vehicle honk, stop, screech their tires... those officers could pull over the cyclists and have a discussion with him and realize that no one was hurt... they could have used thier discretion and not tie up the court system with a cyclists that did not hurt any part of society, they did not destroy someone's property, did not rape, murder, and so forth....

Arizona has laws that stop individuals because of their skin color, name or assumed birth place... I would prefer those officers using their discretion and realize a law like that is wrong... laws that prohibited ppl from voting or eating at places was wrong and it would have made the civil rights movement progress faster if those police officers would open their minds and realize that that was wrong....




dayone
responding to a comment by ericduville
11.2.10 - 5:20 pm

reply

u and the other 3 welcomed the pigs to a ride u guys dont even do!!!

in 2 months u guys will b long gone n we are stuk with the pigs!!!

the best thing we can do now is to have spots to ride to and just slit up every one so the pigs would have a hard time busting any one. all they did this last ride is site at the entersectin n bust ppl. we can just ride in groups of 50to100 to a park n FUCK DA PIGS!!!
n stop listenin to the fake ass leaders.



fixie4life
responding to a comment by trickmilla
11.2.10 - 9:12 pm

reply

we also need to find out what area the LAPD cant go.



fixie4life
11.2.10 - 9:15 pm

reply

Not that I'm advocating a pre-determined route, but who is it that's refusing to give a route to the LAPD? This ride has morphed greatly in one year. Last Halloween, there were maybe 500 people, and that was a big month. Thanksgiving, maybe 300, and the months between Christmas and that fateful May mass? Somewhere between 200 to 500 max. We are topping over 1000 easily every month now. Even with school starting and bad weather. A lot of people on the ride don't know that there's no route. And they don't care. They are there to be with their kin, their fellow cyclists, and to experience LA on a bike and feel safe in the pack while doing so. Of course some come as a protest. Some come to celebrate. Everyone has different ideas about LACM, but really do they all honestly think that there's no route? Do they even care? Would it be so hard to just try one month with a route provided to LAPD so we can see how it goes?

It's actually sort of ironic--as a group we've reached a real critical mass, and our current paradigm no longer supports the group. We need a new paradigm. Maybe different checkpoints is the answer, maybe a determined route is. But the question is, can't we just try it once? See what happens? See if it totally ruins the ride? Or are we being sticklers for a very specific philosophy of the ride that perhaps doesn't suit this group anymore?

The relationship between LAPD and LACM is deteriorating quickly--for a variety of reasons. It seems like we should try something different before something really serious happens.

I think we should try giving them a route for November, and just see how it goes. If it's completely reprehensible, we can do it differently in December.



danceralamode
responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
11.2.10 - 9:44 pm

reply

private property



revolution
responding to a comment by fixie4life
11.2.10 - 9:44 pm

reply

no.



coldcut
responding to a comment by danceralamode
11.2.10 - 9:51 pm

reply

so whats hard of leading a cm? I THINK IT JUST TAKES A REAAL LEADER LIKE ME PNUT ONE OF A KIND



Pnut90005
11.2.10 - 9:54 pm

reply

The Triple Frontier?



bentstrider
responding to a comment by fixie4life
11.2.10 - 10:03 pm

reply

a real leader is one that gives up control not like these a holes we got now. and you lead with a group. a group that is on the ride.



fixie4life
responding to a comment by Pnut90005
11.2.10 - 10:13 pm

reply

i think it is better to fight for more freedom amd less of police crakin heads. giving them a route will make there job eazy n our job hard. having riders taking diferent routes will make there job hard and our free and more fun. having differnt routes means they have to get more officers or we will have more freedom.



fixie4life
responding to a comment by danceralamode
11.2.10 - 10:25 pm

reply

I say we have a designated decoy contingent.



bentstrider
responding to a comment by fixie4life
11.2.10 - 11:21 pm

reply

Its pretty hilarious you are only one calling anybody a "leader" and your are actually the one riding in front helping to direct the ride.

But nobody has every accused you of being burdened with an excessive amount of self-awareness.

We (LACM) never had a choice to welcome the police or not.
They inserted themselves in the ride and we have had to make the most of it.
The only choice we had was how we intended to deal with the cops.

Ignore them? Talk shit to them? Start shit with them? or Talk with them, explain to them why critical mass is a good thing for the city, and why they should respect critical mass and not harass people who ride it.

I got invited to a meeting the cops were holding with some bike activists
I took a chance to go mostly so I could hear what they were planning to do and report back to the people.

Not everybody in the room at those meetings even understood what critical mass was. I was happy to be there (when people were suggesting things like routes, leaders, and permits) to remind everybody that critical mass is an international movement that will not change is structure or format for any government, agency, group, or person.

I'm no more a "leader" of critical mass for having weaseled into some meetings with the cops to record them and report what happened back here, than you are a "leader" for riding in the front of the LACM and helping to direct where it goes.

Critical Mass has no leaders.
You get it, right?

now we are all welcome to express our ideas and nobody's idea about critical mass is more relevant than another person's idea.

This is the history of critical mass. Debate and discussion. And for most of us mutual respect despite disagreement.

Personally I think ideas should be discussed on their merit and individuals judged by their actions rather than silly name calling.

I'm not sure if you have read much of what I have written about critical mass but I am really happy that you are supporting what many of us have been advocating for for a long time:

1) respecting the fundamental structure of critical mass (no routes, permits, or leaders).

2) thinking of creative ways to break the ride in to smaller groups to attract less negative attention, and make it more complicated for the police to monitor / follow the group.

Structurally, I agree with you 100%

I know my statement is not worded as artfully as:
" we can just ride in groups of 50to100 to a park n FUCK DA PIGS!!!"
and of course my statements lack the exuberant desire to have intercourse with farm animals ... but aside from that we are pretty much exactly on the same page.

We both want a fun critical mass that is safe and free of harassment from cops and cars. We both want a critical mass that respects the roots and culture of critical mass.

If you ever bothered to contact me directly instead of just throwing out petty insults you would have figured that out a long time ago.

Its OK
You can pretend to talk shit to me here if you need to keep up your street cred.
I'm just glad to know we are on the same page. ;-)





trickmilla
responding to a comment by fixie4life
11.3.10 - 4:41 pm

reply

One of the reason Critical Mass is so successful is that is has a very simple structure:
Meet at a time and place to ride bikes: no leader, no route, no permit.

It is an extremely open format with very simple guidelines.
Those guidelines work throughout the world for almost 20 years,

Critical Mass may need to change tactics ... but there is no reason to meddle with the fundamental structure.

Especially to deal with a problem that was created by the police.





trickmilla
responding to a comment by danceralamode
11.3.10 - 4:48 pm

reply

Especially to deal with a problem that was created by the police.

Just to play Devil's advocate (my favorite afternoon activity), the police didn't create this problem. Bitch-ass impatient drivers caused this problem by whining to the city that some bikes were causing 5 minute traffic delays. Then the police (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here) got involved to try to mediate the situation between stubborn, hypocritical cyclists ("we are traffic" then break all the traffic laws in the book) and impatient, selfish drivers who can't deal with waiting for a line of bikes to pass, or god forbid take a different route to get where they're going.

It's fair to blame the police for some of their more poorly conceived methodologies, but the source of this problem is the conflict between car culture / general impatience / unwillingness to act like an adult on the part of drivers, versus cyclists' insistence on breaking traffic laws to get their jollies off rolling through lights, occupying more than the right lane, allowing some riders to ride across double-yellows and on sidewalks, etc.

I dunno why I'm even typing this, I'm certain we've had the same conversation roughly ten thousand times before...

On the other hand, you have convinced me that giving LAPD a route, settling for a permit system, and other allowances of government control over Critical Mass would be a sin.



outerspace
responding to a comment by trickmilla
11.3.10 - 5:16 pm

reply

before LAPD got involved LACM was a much more manageable size.

the cops can not be blamed for all problems on LACM but they should take some responsibility for growing it unnaturally fast, then taking a zig zag approach to responding to problems that they themselves have exacerbated.



trickmilla
responding to a comment by outerspace
11.3.10 - 5:23 pm

reply

no comment.



indigis
responding to a comment by outerspace
11.3.10 - 5:23 pm

reply

Hey ninjabiker,

Yesterday I filed an official complaint based on your post that motor officers used excessive force by slamming someones head down. You mentioned that there is video. I asked you to contact me and provided you my e-mail. I really need your assistance if this complaint is going to go anywhere. As I mentioned the LAPD will not tolerate excessive force and will take appropriate action. Since you are a witness I need your cooperation. Please contact me! If anyone else witnessed the incident ninjabiker refers to above please speak up.

35128@lapd.lacity.org Please use "LACM EXCESSIVE FORCE COMPLAINT" as the subject line.

Thanks.



Sgt. David Krumer
11.3.10 - 5:48 pm

reply

let m lead the ride........



Pnut90005
11.3.10 - 7:48 pm

reply

This was my first Critical Mass ride--my first night time group ride actually. I was a little concerned about the lack of structure and size of the ride, but decided to go anyway. My overall impression was that the ride, while it lasted, was amazing. That being said, the "amazing" part of it didn't last very long due to the mass splitting up.

After I passed Melrose, the crowd around me pretty much thinned out into sparse groups of 4 to 8 riders. I kept riding, but after awhile, I just felt lost. I didn't know whether the ride was over, or whether I was so far behind that it was pointless to keep riding. I was getting ready to just turn around and backtrack. Luckily, however, I had been riding at about the same pace as gregb, who I met that night, and his friends. They somehow knew (I'm still not sure how) where the mass had gone, so I just rode with them. Eventually, we caught up with the mass who were waiting at some (parking lot?) out on venice and got to ride as a large group again. This lasted for a few miles, before it thinned out once again.

We rode a couple more miles, and suddenly, to my surprise, gregb told me, "that's it. the ride is over" lol. I guess I'm just missing some biking/crowd cues because it felt exactly the same as when we passed melrose, only this time, the ride was over. haha.

Anyway, I'm really thankful I ran into a group of great people on my first ride. I witnessed Gregb and his friend repeatedly stop to help and offer help to bikers with mechanical problems, ride into the crosswalk to push the button so that the green would last longer for trailing riders, help lost riders (me!), and bringing an overal positive vibe to the ride. I might be a new to midnight riders, but I think that's what the spirit of what we're doing is all about.

As far as the ride structure itself goes, I believe there are small, yet significant changes that can be made without compromising what Critical Mass stands for: "no leader, no route, no permit."

1. I think a pre-announced *destination* for the ride would be helpful. Get there however you want or can, but that's where the ride is going. Note, a destination is _not_ the same thing as a route. Intermediate destination points between the start and end locations that double as rest/catch-up/information points for the mass would help keep the crowd together and moving in the same general direction.

2. Reverse rides FROM critical mass. There's already rides from various locations *TO* critical mass. If we have an announced destination, these same groups, or groups meeting at the CM location, can continue in their own predetermined routes to the destination. The result would be that you have several more manageable groups, each riding out to the destination in their own unique paths. There are routes, but they belong to the individual groups, not Critical Mass. Also, there may be leaders of these individual groups, but they are not the leaders of Critical Mass.

As many of you have noted, the ride has changed drastically throughout the years and months. The crowd size has changed, LAPD has changed, law enforcement strategies around the ride and riders have changed. It's naive to think that the ride can retain its former quality without adapting to these changes.

Also, I understand that riders want to preserve the original qualities of, "no leader, no route," but I believe those qualities are either already gone or unenforceable. There already *is* a route--the guys at the front of the mass have it plotted in their heads and dictate it as they ride. I also have a suspicion that the LAPD had a heavy hand in dictating the route (I might be new, but why would a ride standing for equal road rights travel along a LARGE stretch of dedicated bike paths?). The guys who want to be ride leaders, let them lead their own rides out of CM--don't let them lead the entire CM as they are already doing now. Worse yet, don't let LAPD lead and dictate the route for CM, as they might already be doing.

anyhow, I'll get off my soapbox.

1. Pre-announced destination
2. Several reverse rides from CM to #1

Think about it.



seamonster
11.3.10 - 8:20 pm

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Let his lawyer take care of it!



revolution
responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
11.3.10 - 10:25 pm

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narc...



cannondale310
responding to a comment by seamonster
11.4.10 - 2:35 pm

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the cops can not be blamed for all problems on LACM but they should take some responsibility

Like I said. ;]



outerspace
responding to a comment by trickmilla
11.4.10 - 6:53 pm

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Hello All,

The below represents the LAPD's enforcement on the October Critical Mass.

21453(a) CVC - 28 citation issued (Red Light)
21201(d)(1)CVC - 13 citations issued (Lighting)
21212(a)CVC - 8 citations issued (Helmet)
21650.1 CVC - 1 citation issued (wrong side of road)
45.03 LAMC - 6 citations issued (Curfew violation)
21456(b)CVC - 1 citation issued ("Don't Walk" Crosswalk violation)
3 arrests for warrants

57 citations total and 3 arrests. Please bear in mind that some of the persons issued an equipment citation may have actually been stopped for a moving violation and the officer opted to only cite for the equipment.






Sgt. David Krumer
11.4.10 - 7:19 pm

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Sgt Krumer,

Would you advise cyclists who plan on violating CVC to ride without a light so as to give the officer an option of citing them for equipment violation instead of the red light violation?



alexdc
responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
11.4.10 - 7:22 pm

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I would not make that recommendation because you may get an officer who cites you for both.



Sgt. David Krumer
responding to a comment by alexdc
11.4.10 - 7:37 pm

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Just to make sure, isn't the helmet law only for minors?

And just out of curiosity, what hours does the curfew law cover? I believe it begins at 10pm, when does it end?



outerspace
11.5.10 - 3:21 pm

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Helmet law is for minors (under 18).

Curfew begins at 10:00 pm and ends at 6:00 am.



Sgt. David Krumer
responding to a comment by outerspace
11.5.10 - 3:31 pm

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bump! stfu ! just stfu!



LACMsux
11.24.10 - 3:09 pm

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