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Thread Box:
Facebook: LACM censorship
Thread started by Aktive_420 at 11.23.11 - 11:26 am

Why is it that the LEADER of a LEADERLESS ride censors absolutely everything in the Los Angeles critical mass group?

Deletes people who start controversial threads?

Deleting comments!

Everything must be done to their liking?

I thought the ride and the groups belonged to ALL not just One?

I thought it was funny I've been deleted simply for finally answering the call of many to bring back the true meaning of critical mass or at least back to when it was fun and less government controlled.

Google it: critical mass. Read for yourself.

Plus now that the current so called LACM is locked down to what the city wants many keep complaining that there's still a over exaggerated police presence.

Its a parade now, come on...really? Plus what a waste of resources.

You can't say I'm a cop hater cause many know I'm not, I've enjoyed working with cops to make streets safer for cyclists, motorists, pedestrian and even cute lil puppies.

Lets just ride, no agendas. No routes. No sponsorship. No sanctioning by gov't. No resources misuse.

Change who we follow when?
Monthly?
After each stop?
Any time during the ride?
Sure why not, ITS YOUR RIDE NOT MINE.

reply


Word



Joe Borfo
11.23.11 - 3:53 pm

reply


We are actually looking at reducing the police presence at LACM by perhaps in half. Last LACM I rode with folks from the council office. They were impressed by how respectful th riders were while riding through residential neighborhoods, the sense of community coming together for a fun ridevat a pace hat was family and newbie friendly. The core of volunteers that take it upon themselves to guide and self policevthe ride. I do not anticipate devoting the number of resources we have in 2012 as we did in 2011.



Sgt. David Krumer
11.23.11 - 5:31 pm

reply


I have not been on a single Critical mass since LAPD started coming with us.

Motorcycle cops swerved into packs of moving cyclists at dangerous rates of speed and directions. They did this for what i can only suppose to be a minor traffic offense on the fault of the cyclist.

LAPD go home. Leave us in peace with our critical mass. I am not a cop hater either, but the police presence at critical mass only makes things worse 99% of the time.

I must thank the LAPD for their service on the occasion we had a driver pass us recklessly while riding in a critical mass ride, to be pulled over with swift justice and great conviction. As i recall the people cheered for the police with pride, and expressed great appreciation.

However, on this same ride i felt a lot of police intimidation and a sense of impending danger from the overzealous motorcycle officers and the HELICOPTER. The use of roadblocks to attempt to stop the pack only caused more problems, confusion and danger.

A helicopter. Yeah. $$$$$

As aktive said it; Lets just ride, no agendas. No routes. No sponsorship. No sanctioning by gov't. No resources misuse.

With respect and great thanks,
Dude



TheDude
responding to a comment by Sgt. David Krumer
11.24.11 - 12:08 am

reply


http://youtu.be/bl7WWkQrkyo



TheDude
11.24.11 - 12:09 am

reply


wrong code. lets try again.





TheDude
11.24.11 - 12:09 am

reply


In London's Notting Hill Carnival the police reduce their imposing presence by taking off their dark blue jackets and wear white shirts. As a result attendees don't feel so threatened but there are some police around just incase of trouble.

If the police presence at LACM was only cyclist officers who from my experience seem to enjoy the ride as opposed to the heavy set motorcycle cops who still intimidate riders and quite frankly wished it would go away, then you'd have policing as part of the community rather than 'US and THEM'.




Limeyfly
11.24.11 - 9:33 pm

reply


If you feel you're being hassled or the police drive too close to you as one did to me a few months ago on LACMPD, take note of the number on the motorcycle...i think they're on the back fender and report it...



barleye
11.25.11 - 3:25 pm

reply


If you feel you're being hassled or the police drive too close to you as one did to me a few months ago on LACMPD, take note of the number on the motorcycle...i think they're on the back fender and report it...



barleye
11.25.11 - 3:25 pm

reply


i stopped going to critical mass because the cops were unsafe to ride next to.



mikeywally
11.26.11 - 8:21 pm

reply


limefly's comments make me want to move.



mikeywally
11.26.11 - 8:23 pm

reply


anybody ever seen the University of Leicester campus cops? https://www.facebook.com/campuscops



mikeywally
11.26.11 - 8:24 pm

reply


I stopped going to critical mass because it became about making a safe space for normal people to try riding their bikes without worrying about all the typical crap normal people worry about when it comes to bikes.

I stopped riding because it grew beyond the 1,000 to the 2,000+ mark with each ride.

I stopped going because FUCK IT this ride is OVER!



ubrayj02
11.27.11 - 12:11 am

reply


Matt Speed
LOL! Banned from @Los Angeles Critical Mass group. Thanks @Brian Will!
Like · · 16 hours ago ·
Tyrone Rocha and 5 others like this.

Chrystyna Marie How does one get banned from the crit?!!
16 hours ago · Like · 1

Matt Speed I posted something and it got deleted and I Brad and I spoke up about it. Brian Will didn't like it so he banned the both of us.
16 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed Brian Will Should it be you?
18 minutes ago ·
Matt Speed It should be no one..
18 minutes ago · · 1
Brian Will thats nice in fantasy land.
17 minutes ago · · 1
Matt Speed How did YOU become the leader?
17 minutes ago ·
Brian Will Your welcome to volunteer
16 minutes ago ·
Brad Ellman Brian, Please don't delete this thread..
16 minutes ago ·
Matt Speed So.. how did you become the leader/moderator?
14 minutes ago ·
Brian Will I volunteered, are you interested in volunteering?
14 minutes ago · · 1
Matt Speed You volunteered yourself as the leader?
13 minutes ago ·
Matt Speed CM doesn't have a leader..
13 minutes ago ·
Brad Ellman Brian, I know you and stuart have taken it upon yourselves to be the LAPD liasions....some aren't happy with it and some are. It is really getting ridiculous how this forum on FB has been censored thru and thru. It's (or at least used to be) a ride for the people of Los Angeles. If you want a ride and have a final say in each and every aspect, start a ride of your own. that's just my opinion....TOO MANY people have voiced their dislike of the police presence and the censorship. carry on.
13 minutes ago · · 2
Brian Will Brad its clear you have another agenda, so best you stay out of this. Matt, there has always been individuals who steward the rides.
12 minutes ago ·
Brad Ellman People have an opinion and would like to voice it here on the forum. Please let them do so as long as it's not hurting anyone.
11 minutes ago · · 1
Brian Will Both of you instead of hating on those who step up to help our fellow riders, why dont you volunteer your time.
11 minutes ago ·
Matt Speed Oh I'm not hating..
11 minutes ago ·
Brad Ellman Brian, nobody is hating. I have tried to convey that to you for months but it falls on deaf ears. You see "hating" being not conforming to your opinions.
8 minutes ago · · 1
Brian Will Brad, you have an agenda of hating law enforcement and prefer rides where recklessness prevails, and where drinking and smoking out is acceptable.
7 minutes ago ·
Matt Speed Brians going to start pepper spraying people before we know it.
6 minutes ago ·
Matt Speed Tsk tsk tsk.
6 minutes ago ·
Brian Will There are nearly a million people who ride a bike in Los Angeles, how about the silent majority who want to ride and have a positive experience
6 minutes ago ·
Brian Will I asked you if you had identifying information of the officer. Do you?
5 minutes ago ·
Brad Ellman I told you an officer rode within a foot of me on LACM a few months back and you said "well you have to take the good with the bad" and I called B.S. on that....there should be a zero tolerance with LAPD doing that sort of thing. You disagreed. You can't tell me what I prefer or not....I just prefer police officers not to be on a bike ride.
5 minutes ago ·
Brian Will I asked you if you had identifying information of the officer. Do you?
4 minutes ago ·
Matt Speed Stand by.. incoming PM from Brian Will.
3 minutes ago ·
Give MeThree hey. you guys have issues among yourselves personally. That is not what this forum is for. Go to chat, meet in private or start a "Let's discuss our personal issues" Why are you doing it here?
2 minutes ago ·
Brad Ellman I TOLD YOU I was pretty sure the officer's motorcycle was 1085. You wanted me to make the complaint. I asked you to ask your police connections if 1085 was on that month's ride and if it was, then that was the officer. Did you make any calls?
2 minutes ago ·
Brian Will you said you were uncertain. You also refused to make a complaint, has that changed?
a few seconds ago ·
Brian Will Give MeThree Your point is well taken, that is why this type of exchange will be removed.
16 hours ago · Like · 1

Matt Speed Can you copy and repost this on the LACM group?
16 hours ago · Like

Leo Ramirez Retarted
16 hours ago · Like · 1

Chrystyna Marie Oh lord! Why the drama....im not on a computer until next week...he cant bann anyone p.s....no one owns the roads...u wanna ride...u freakin ride.
16 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed Yeah I know, this guy is fucking crazy.
16 hours ago · Like

Magnus Nihilus Fuck critical mass!
16 hours ago · Like

Alfredo Aguilar Shit happens when you're a hipster
16 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed Shut up pepe aguilar.
16 hours ago · Like

Alfredo Aguilar ‎:(
16 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed haha
16 hours ago · Like · 1

Magnus Nihilus hey at least u didnt get a ticket like aalex did at the last one...for not having brakes...
16 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed no comment.
16 hours ago · Like

Rick Moonbeam Darge Who the fuck is Brian Will?
16 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed Exactly!
16 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed Dare to ask that in the LACM group?
16 hours ago · Like

Rick Moonbeam Darge I'll fight all day
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed Let's fuckign do this.
15 hours ago · Like

Crispin Oochie This is cracking me up!
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed All I wanted was a Pepsi.
15 hours ago · Like · 1

Tyrone Rocha Critical Mass is annoying.
15 hours ago · Like · 1

Tyrone Rocha That dude Brian got my number from fb and called me randomly one day after a FMLY ride because I posted something on MR talking trash about Critical Mass and FMLY.
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed lol
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed really??
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed did you asnwer?
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Reyes fuck that kid
15 hours ago · Like

Tyrone Rocha Yeah, he offered me a job volunteering for Critical Mass haha! I turned it down.
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Reyes and i dont even know him, but from the above text he carries himself very poorly
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed Job?
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed LIke paying job?
15 hours ago · Like

Tyrone Rocha I think it was like a fund raising job, so basically straight commission. He asked if I had any suggestions on how to improve Critical Mass, I didn't know how to answer that because I truly don't give a shit.
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed all i wanted to do was try to help howard.
15 hours ago · Like · 1

Tyrone Rocha I wish there was a way we could increase business for Howard too. If I lived closer and had some sort of income I would be willing to volunteer my time to the shop. Right now it would cost me more money than I have to go help out there everyday.
15 hours ago · Like · 1

Matt Speed I do what I can from home *shrugs* best I can do at the moment. That and just send people over who ask me where to go..
15 hours ago · Like · 1

Matt Speed p.s. fuck all ya'll
15 hours ago · Like

Tyrone Rocha Yeah, I've helped him sell a few bikes that way. And whenever I'm there I usually manage to sell something for him. That's the only bike shop I ever recommend. We need to figure out how to do some events there, kind of how Atomic Cycles do their shit... Something.
15 hours ago · Like

Matt Speed Or a BBQ?
15 hours ago · Like
Jesse Ramon matt i wish i could copy these 40 comments and paste them on MR.. but i dont want to cause MORE drama.. already did by posting about censorship and starting the alternative OLD LACM
13 hours ago · Like

Tyrone Rocha The MR forum is nothing but drama now. Things done changed...
13 hours ago · Like

Eduardo Hernandez Sorry, I had to do that. I got the order from the top, it had to be done. No hard feelings.
12 hours ago · Like

Bentstrider Francesco Nittoni Time for me to go Merle Dixon on his ass!!
12 hours ago · Like



Aktive_420
11.27.11 - 9:49 am

reply


bump!




Aktive_420
11.28.11 - 6:21 am

reply


THe Ol' Grey Mare just aint what she used to be....



FIXMYLIFE
11.28.11 - 4:24 pm

reply






Aktive_420
responding to a comment by FIXMYLIFE
11.29.11 - 6:25 pm

reply


lets try this again





Aktive_420
responding to a comment by FIXMYLIFE
11.29.11 - 6:26 pm

reply


bump



Aktive_420
12.1.11 - 7:53 am

reply


Noe Cruz
So I Posted This On LAPDCM The Ride Page;
"If Anyone By Any Chance Is Interested In Riding Something Else Rather Than Critical Mass On The 30th HMU..."

Brian Will's Response: "Hi Noe, You have been posting great stuff and that is appreciated. However, If you ever try to poach riders again, you will be banned by an admin. Every ride is entitled to attract those who wish to come. Poaching others is not appropriate"

My Response: "Poaching is the illegal taking of wild plants or animals contrary to local and international conservation and wildlife management laws. I Was Just Advertising another ride because many other riders might be interested in another ride but I See how you handle & lead YOUR Critical Mass..."

He Didn't Reply, So Does That Mean I Won? :D
Like · · Unfollow Post · 7 hours ago



Aktive_420
12.20.11 - 11:49 pm

reply


there are no winners in LACM



andres84
responding to a comment by Aktive_420
12.21.11 - 10:34 am

reply


we are animals. therefore we can be poached.





Roadblock
responding to a comment by Aktive_420
12.21.11 - 5:24 pm

reply


RAWR!



Aktive_420
responding to a comment by Roadblock
12.24.11 - 8:53 am

reply


It is hard as hell to reply to this, but yes, I 100% agree with what Roadblock said! We, as an animal in scientific veiws, Can be poached, Even if it is by our fellow man.



louisiana
responding to a comment by Roadblock
12.24.11 - 10:24 am

reply


hahah I'm going to go in there and poach myself out of that group...



Roadblock
12.24.11 - 11:07 am

reply


I have read all of the posts on this thread. I pondered my response while watching an old school Kung Fu flick. So forgive me in advance for not being conveniently correct.

"A "leaderless ride" reminds me of an old military tactic - whereas that leader of a platoon will often hide his/her leadership to thwart enemy snipers from killing said leader, in hopes of successfully disassembling said platoon."

With that being said, the CONCEPT of LACM was to abide by that, while keeping that freedom of participating in something that was positive and enriching. However, it is society has changed that concept. Given that we all live in the United States, and we all enjoy that freedom, we often desire not to be bound by societies structure, and rebel when we feel closed off by "the man".

I believe that the intention for LACM to include law enforcement was a way for LACM to slightly conform to society's comfort system. Comfort system? Well let me put it to you this way -

Actual statement from a Father:
"It is more comforting to know that my little daughter is out riding her fixie with no brakes and no light, with her boyfriend, (even though I told her not to) with law enforcement that it is without law enforcement!"

Now would you rather read on MR or FB about tradegies that would happen and be quick to blame LACM for not having a leader? Not having some kind of structure to keep a mostly positive experience said about LACM?? I'm pretty sure that there are great ideas about how to improve such a massive "leaderless ride" , yet I have heard so little. Does that mean (like always) we will have to have a crisis happen before great ideas are spawned?

I do like the idea of less law enforcement in 2012. But I don't want that to be a gateway for law enforcement to mandate more chickenesque tickets. I know a vast majority of them would rather be somewhere else. I don't recall many children wanting to grow up to be a cop that "babysits" a party ride - oh no! They wanted to be the cop that goes out and catches bad guys!!

I think Brian has a tough responsibility, and desires only good intentions. Because he is catering to the masses he cannot allow every suggestion, comment, and backlash to tarnish the nature of the FB/LACM community. To suggest other rides on a specific ride page is naughty - come on - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to create a FB page for your own ride. And FB has a way that you can advertise your page to the masses, with or without LACM. Next year, LACM will have a place, on its website so that you can post rides. The rides will have a criteria, and a set of guidelines for others to gather even more positive ways to participate socially on a bike.

Do I have an answer to how we can get LACM back to the way it started? - no. For two reasons:
1. I was not there in the beginning - there is no LACM "bible" persay - for it was leaderless - right?
2. All it takes is one politicians kid or family member to hear that their loved one got trampled, or died after a drunk driver plowed into a crowd of bicycle riders, and there were no law enforcement participating. Or it was because some other people decided it would be cool to coax others to change the route, steering LACM participants away from the LACM original ride, to be robbed in DTLA somewhere. And these crisis' would be the only fuel to close this shindig we know as LACM down forever!

Great suggestions are:
1. Volunteering - I dislike people that practice hypocrisy. So many negative comments would be more valid if that person had volunteered. I believe that great ideas grow from experiences. Help thy fellow man...
2. LAPD plain-clothes men. If LACM was able to generate money, we could probably have enough dough to hire our own cops. Crazy idea? Not really - ask the cops that protect film studios, like Paramount and Sony when they are on the set with those huge trailers filming in your neck of the woods - come on, I know you know what I am talking about. (Yes, many of those hired police are retired)
3. Sponsors. You know you know a friend of a friend, of a friend, that owns a business. It's a tax writeoff anyway, isn't it!????Call it commercial or what-have-you, but answer this:
If a LACM participant did get injured severely, on the LACM ride, and perhaps not the fault of their own, wouldn't it be nice to hear that "LACM funding" took care of the hospital bill? LACM desires to be a legitimate non-profit organization. No one goes up to a LACM volunteer and says " I love this ride, and it's spirit to grow, here is some dough to the cause..."

LACM has over 1,000 people from all ages just wanting to ride. It's just one day out of the month to come together, from all walks of life, to show society that we are our OWN society. And that society should feel safe. I find it hard to believe that you don't want to concentrate on that......

I AM a LACM Volunteer, and I approve this message :P

aaaand

Yesh - I am the guy that is dressed sometimes as cow when riding @ LACM....





junglistic1
12.24.11 - 3:15 pm

reply


the fact that you guys censor shit is bullshit!

i mean how damaging is a post concerning a TANDEM for sale...

or people talking about rollerblades?


Brian is power tripping like a mother fucker! he needs to relax.

ITS NOT HIS RIDE! ITS NOT YOURS! ITS THE PEOPLES!

but when brian controls every single aspect of a ride like LApdCM from who rides there, picking sponsorship from big corporations or a lil ass bike shop and then talking shit to people that suggest NON SPONSORING bike shops i think thats bullshit!


Why does he need to request LAPD at all?

the only reason they are there is to make themselves look better after that May Incident caught on tape.

whats wrong with giving people options on what rides to ride on the last friday?

Poaching he says.. well fuck him for even thinking along those lines...

LApdCM is not LACM.. why dont you guys just call it LA BIKE NIGHT once a month...

and let LACM be what it used to.


I AM AKTIVE

I AM A MOM RIDAZ

I AM FMLY

I AM A CYCLIST

I AM A COMMUNITY LEADER/ORGANIZER

I AM from the bike oven


and I LEAD LApdCM for a good chunk of 2010, bridging the gap between LAPD and LACM when i thought it would make things easier.. but it didnt!

now BRIAN and his goons want to make LApdCM a NON PROFIT?

what about Brian trying to make money off of it? (at least thats what i hear)

LET LACM be what it used to be and just rename your CORPORATE RIDE something else...


OR AT LEAST YOU GUYS (BRIAN AND STUART) should pull tha huge ass stick out of yours asses and relax the fuck up!

BANNING PEOPLE?

DELETING COMMENTS?

THREATENING WITH BANNING for mentioning other bike shops?

POWER TRIPPING!

YOU GUYS WANT MORE TO PARTICIPATE YET YOU GUYS DELETE PEOPLE ... COME ON!

STOP BEING PUSSIES! A LIL COMMENT OR SOMEONE ADVERTISING ANOTHER RIDE ON LApdCM's Group will not cause the ride to lose half its people

PEOPLE WILL GO ON RIDES REGARDLESS OR WHAT ELSE IS GOING ON...


JUST RELAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX THE FUCK UP!



Aktive_420
responding to a comment by junglistic1
12.26.11 - 11:36 am

reply


happy 420 Holidays by the way



Aktive_420
responding to a comment by junglistic1
12.26.11 - 11:40 am

reply


those are horrible suggestions. it's really sad to see a critical mass get hijacked by people that think police escorts and sponsorship is acceptable. i hope you fail.



asparagus
responding to a comment by junglistic1
12.26.11 - 12:57 pm

reply


My respect for certain leaders is certainly being challenged. You won't find me jumping into caps to get a point across, but I must say a couple of things.

If you have a problem, become part of the solution, otherwise you don't have much of a voice. He who started this thread has been invited to be involved with LACM numerous times by other "volunteers" since his 2010 stint (including myself). The best he can do is judge others for their role in it... and is it really because of editorial/censorship/banning... Really?

Jesse... I thought I could expect higher-level thinking from you than this. I always have time for you if you want to have any real dialogue.

And just a curious side note... Is Age-ism any different than censorship? Is your "alt" ride going to ban minors in a similar fashion to TT? You don't see that happening at the real LACM, because it IS all-inclusive and designed to be as safe as possible for all riders of all ages.

Sad to see how hard it is for you and others to accept the fact that LACM is different than it used to be. It's better in a great many ways too. I certainly AM however glad to see your leadership mobilized and out there Jesse. Keep up what's great about what you do.




DancesOnH2O
12.26.11 - 9:03 pm

reply


when you go to these bike rides do you have to be inf to the ride or can you just go




fixie2much
12.26.11 - 11:33 pm

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Dances, im not sure who you are... (yet) lol

Dialogue, im always up for.

My issues start with the editorial and banning and censoring yes, but it continues with the way the whole ride now is being handled. From the tight control of every aspect of this ride from FB to volunteers to sponsorship to the request/demand for LAPD to be present at all the rides. and now this talk of a 501(c)3 ? geez i mean is that really necessary?

And i dont know what TT has to do with this... i dont run TT. Other than going on TT now and then to enjoy their ride, I have nothing to do with TT except just be a supporter, I dont lead TT, I dont organize TT.

THE OLD LACM doesnt ban anyone from the ride, from the facebook group or ban in any other way. OLD LACM is for everyone. Anyone can lead it. We can have a great time without having to complicate things with walkie talkie, volunteers, sponsors and talks of incorporating. We simply just want to ride without having dictators running every single aspect of this ride.

We just want to keep THE OLD LACM running the way LACM used to be not to what it has become LApdCM....

You guys running that ride have taken it away from what it used to be...

And if your respect for certain leaders, me, is being challenged thats cool with me. Sorry you fee like that.
but im certainly used to people not liking me.

I hold no personal grudges with anyone, Brian, Stuart or their volunteers/sponsors.

This is politics not personal.



Aktive_420
responding to a comment by DancesOnH2O
12.27.11 - 9:23 am

reply


It's David... If you click on my screen name and look at my image, it will certainly confirm who I am...heheh

In my humble opinion... you had voiced your opinions about the ride but did nothing with regards to LACM for months. Your opinions were tipped into action when the deletions and banning(s) occurred. Now that you have a mission with this issue, you are certainly hyper-sensitive to anything anybody says about the issue so I'm not going to answer to things that aren't based in fact.

My mention of TT is because I do know that you respect and support the ride, which is being impacted by issues that are germane to this discussion. Do you promote/accept minors on your "alt" ride? Now that the leadership of TT is setting a precedent by eliminating minors, it unfortunately puts the rest of us in a position of having to consider the risks. Talk about introducing "the man" to the discussion... any time any leader bends to meet legal precepts we become more beholden to the law (and subject to liability).

Keep in mind Jesse... evolution is a constant, both physical (we are becoming better and stronger ridazz, eh?) and most importantly, psycho-social evolution. There was a significant and fundamental shift in the expectations of all involved with LACM that took place over a year ago and there IS a new backdrop to the expectations that the riders have of LACM. As volunteers we are doing our best to track with and support the needs of the many that enjoy this ride (including stakeholders, such as parents). Does this mean that it's still "your" ride? From what you've said, maybe not. I DO respect your right to pick your ridezz.

And as for inclusiveness, long ago we created MULTIPLE forums for feedback and community building (including many months ago, the launch of a forum for those who have something to sell), listening some more, and supporting the upward-moving evolution of this respected ride. And although nobody "owns" this ride, leadership through volunteerism is and will continue to be valuable and necessary. Nice chatting with you.



DancesOnH2O
responding to a comment by Aktive_420
12.27.11 - 2:53 pm

reply


"any time any leader bends to meet legal precepts we become more beholden to the law"

There is a sense in which this is true.

"(and subject to liability)"

But this is a complete non sequitur. What ever gave you the idea that one leader's decision to limit participation in their ride would suddenly subject every other ride leader in the city to new legal liabilities?



nathansnider
responding to a comment by DancesOnH2O
12.27.11 - 8:53 pm

reply


NO GODS NO MASTERS NO LAPD






newarkhouse
12.28.11 - 11:29 am

reply


I am a layperson who has engaged the system in pro-per on many occasions and studied much. Which at times qualifies me well and at other times causes me overlook my incompetence... heheh.

I realize that I'm going off-topic on this thread Nathan... I originally brought up the TT issue as an illustration of how a ride changes and evolves over time.

Regarding the "subject to liability" statement, It's not the fact that TT limited participation... The leadership of the ride has published their decision to check ID's and not allow minors on their ride, and they have gone further by citing liability and accountability concern.

Since it is is published here, on a membership-based forum that gets broad exposure to both the riders and ride leadership of many other similar rides, does it not begin a precedent that could hold future ride leaders accountable? I'm not an attorney, but I would think civil or criminal cases by parents of minors against ride leaders would be strengthened by the fact that there was a PUBLISHED precedent that was not considered and/or followed.




DancesOnH2O
responding to a comment by nathansnider
12.28.11 - 11:50 am

reply


One theory I've heard from a lawyer I know was that since there is no money being exchanged, there is not implied contract and thus no obligation or liability of ride leaders to individuals who chose to occupy the same public space at the same time as other individuals who also choose to do so. In other words just because someone rides off a bridge, doesnt mean you should too.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by DancesOnH2O
12.28.11 - 1:19 pm

reply


Are you a cop?



POOP DICK
responding to a comment by DancesOnH2O
12.28.11 - 1:31 pm

reply


I can only hope that this theory holds true. It's likely to, at least in terms of criminal liability or negligence. Not so sure it would prevent somebody from prevailing in a civil suit though :(



DancesOnH2O
responding to a comment by Roadblock
12.28.11 - 1:44 pm

reply


PD... 2funny. Ask Jesse. I'm the guy on that huge-wheeled unicycle.

I'm only a cop to one person and she's not talkin'



DancesOnH2O
responding to a comment by POOP DICK
12.28.11 - 1:49 pm

reply


I'm not a lawyer either, but I don't see what someone "publishing" their intent to card riders has to do with anything. I agree with the reasoning that Roadblock mentioned above. Because the rides happen mostly on public streets and in other public-access spaces, anything a ride leader might do to exclude a specific group of people is ultimately futile, and I have a hard time seeing how they would even have the right to exclude anyone, let alone the responsibility.



nathansnider
responding to a comment by DancesOnH2O
12.28.11 - 2:32 pm

reply


I know Sins and Sprockets has done 21+ rides in the past....In my opinion, it's basically the "don't be a dick" rule... meaning don't show up if you're under 21 and it's posted on the ride listing.

Public space THIS!!! 8==============D ` ` `

If the ride leader asks for nobody under 21, that's cool with me....

When I lead a ride, it's every man for himself...just don't pass the music.

delete this if need be....



barleye
12.28.11 - 2:42 pm

reply


I didn't know anybody on MR exercised an authority to delete!!



DancesOnH2O
responding to a comment by barleye
12.28.11 - 2:57 pm

reply






FBI
12.28.11 - 3:52 pm

reply


I hear Aktive is a cop!



Aktive_420
responding to a comment by POOP DICK
12.28.11 - 6:45 pm

reply


or a stoner!



Aktive_420
responding to a comment by POOP DICK
12.28.11 - 6:45 pm

reply


I dont know if there's a difference



Aktive_420
responding to a comment by POOP DICK
12.28.11 - 6:46 pm

reply


LApdCM should just rename the ride if its not to the true meaning of Critical Mass


there's nothing wrong with having LA Bike Night going on that way you guys can keep a tight grip on how you run your ride while letting LA cyclist go Back to the Basixxxx

simple.



Aktive_420
12.29.11 - 11:19 am

reply


Non-profit is just an idea. forgive me for stating that.

I would enjoy a no-nonsense ride that happens every month, that respects all. But because the ride has so many participants, I don't hear any ideas from you, about keeping the LACM and the name positive. I mean can you actually RELAX when there are thousands of people surrounding you? Everyone has issues - those 2,000 followers have issues. It is a tough job. You being part of the people, what do you concentrate on? A forum, the past (the May incident)? Or the next awesome LACM ride. The name (or abbreviation has a passion behind it. Pretend Brian did not exist. Say his name is now called (The Public) - What suggestions do you have for "The Public" to quel the attention of thousands of cyclists riding down the street and running a red light? It's not a funeral you are participating - right.

I am not too sure what to do about the the moderating or "editing" what is said on a FB post. But I am a moderator on some forums and I have to moderate people all the time for basic things - like posting things that have nothing to do with the subject of the forum category.

Wouldn't it be more effective to post things that are justly related to the event at hand? Posting something on a page that you enjoy puppies and it is a FB page about cat lovers is just.. well... unusual.




junglistic1
responding to a comment by Aktive_420
12.29.11 - 7:45 pm

reply


Happy Holidays Active Woo hoo! I'll be in Vegas - donating money :P





junglistic1
responding to a comment by Aktive_420
12.29.11 - 7:46 pm

reply


And your suggestions are? Failure by asparagus allowing people to get harmed? Chaos by lawlessness?



junglistic1
responding to a comment by asparagus
12.29.11 - 7:48 pm

reply


what's with all these fear laced comments about LACM, etc?? fucking newbies, man... this shit has been going on for years now and the few instances of violence are nothing out of the ordinary given the diverse terrain MR explores, and the paradoxical (un)predictability of LAPDs actions toward anyone who rubs an officer the wrong way.

Its dudes like dancesonh20 & jung(?), brian, etc that want to posit so much fear into this activity that allows it to be co-opted by visionaries who want to harness something "they" perceive to be out of control and reform into the same ol bullshit, whether it be adding to the non-profit industrial complex, working with pigs, the city, etc.... The unfortunate part is that much of the kids on LACM are not politicized, but rather looking to have fun, flirt, and ride. So guys who want to "protect" them, will move forward with their plans without much resistance.

dude above asked, if you replace Brian with "the public", the solutions then what will the solutions? That's not the real point, rather it is that they be determined by the public (many) and not one person -- Brian. The problem is that a few people are those both "perceiving the problem" and creating the "solutions". That's makes for a pretty bad situation in my opinion.

I think starting the alternative ride and protecting yourselves from the kind of influence/infiltration that LACM received is the best way to spend your energy. Liberal do-gooders will co-opt ideas and try to reform it to fit their sense of state-certified structure, then label it "progressive" at their Obama fund raiser partys.

The point, just move on with bitterness and anger, and re-create, and re-create, and re-create. Take LACM as lesson learned, and don't make the same mistakes again with LAPD / and Brain types. It happens, and these are moments of learning for all everyone. Don't waste energy trying to change it, when you have so much space to make something new and better guarded.



md2
12.30.11 - 10:26 am

reply


***dude above asked, if you replace Brian with "the public", then what will be the solutions?



md2
12.30.11 - 10:28 am

reply


yes, because that is exactly what i said. pointing out the flaws in the way you think would most likely be a waste of time so i won't bother. i do have a suggestion though. you should make t-shirts that say, "we are traffic.. sort of."



asparagus
responding to a comment by junglistic1
12.30.11 - 10:58 am

reply


They really need to call their ride something else, cuz it sure isnt Critical Mass. Go Alternative Critical Mass, it is way more FUN!



marleydog
responding to a comment by asparagus
12.30.11 - 12:55 pm

reply

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