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Thread Box:
KPCC Re-Frame the Discussion
Thread started by md2 at 11.3.09 - 2:46 pm

Suppose you had the chance to frame/setup a new on air discussion about the Mandeville case/verdict.

What would you do? What would you want to highlight? Lets say you were given a 20 minute segment to have a discussion.

Would it be a one-sided piece about cycling?
A Debate? with callers? with car advocates (or anti-cyclists)?

What topics would be best to bring up and in what order?


Maybe we can come to a consensus and send it to KPCC.

reply


great idea.

first we would have to ask: where does Mantle stand on global warming? does he feel it is an issue that should be addressed? what about health, quality of life and obesity?
does he believe that transportation alternatives to automobiles should exist?




Roadblock
11.3.09 - 2:55 pm

reply


something to wonder about.... originally the story on the kpcc site was called "I want to ride my bicycle" as is evidenced by the address of the blog story which automatically names itself when created after the title of the blog : http://www.scpr.org/programs/airtalk/2009/11/03/i-want-to-ride-my-bicycle/ now it has been changed to "Pavement Wars" I guess the powers that be made something of an effort to make the story seem more serious.



Roadblock
11.3.09 - 3:02 pm

reply


in los angeles, I bet a 3 day series would get a good amount of attention... plus by the 2nd day... people will be able to weigh in better.

I would love to see the difference between hostile driver responses versus the attitude of cyclist. it would totally happen.

their only platform is the legality of the car. Even there its legal because we all allow it to be this overpowering aspect of society. It has forced some of us to own cars even when you dont want one. all other issues they lose.

safety?
--car related deaths
--road rage
--frequency of accidents

health?
--shhiiiiiiiiiittt

environment?
--yawn

better for community?
--(**im whistling**)

--so on and on..

I love to hear this on NPR



md2
responding to a comment by Roadblock
11.3.09 - 3:22 pm

reply


Fuck Mantle. They need to replace that guy PRONTO!



Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by Roadblock
11.3.09 - 3:23 pm

reply


is this a special ride i sense brewing in your head...

fyi... i always roll with my black hoodie.. you feel me?



md2
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
11.3.09 - 3:26 pm

reply


yeppers



Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by md2
11.3.09 - 3:44 pm

reply


he's still better than the suspected replacement which would seem to be David Lazurus



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
11.3.09 - 4:10 pm

reply


i think it would be important during the discussion to first explain to Larry that we dislike him, and not to interrupt the discussion from that point on.

Hence,

Framing the discussion:

1. Get Larry to shut the fuck up early.
2.



md2
responding to a comment by Roadblock
11.3.09 - 4:15 pm

reply


haha

I dont dislike Larry at all. In my opinion he's an ok guy.... but the violations of this morning's show if repeated often enough will change my mind about him.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by md2
11.3.09 - 4:27 pm

reply


RT @villaraigosa: Can't make it to tonight's town hall? Ask the new Police Chief a question here: http://bit.ly/3yqQI4 He wants to hear from all LA.



Joe Borfo
11.3.09 - 4:52 pm

reply


sent



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
11.3.09 - 4:54 pm

reply


They could do a great service to have three bicycle experts on air to give an idea what we're about. On that page I was listening to the audio clip they had, and one of the things they stumbled on was how to properly pass a cyclist. There could have been an advocate there to tell them to give the cyclists a minimum of 3 feet of space.



User1
11.3.09 - 7:51 pm

reply


Man, that whole punk ass show was full of red herring anti-cyclist mumbo jumbo. When the city doesn't even compile the most basic information about injuries and numbers of people using different modes of travel - how can we have an honest discussion without descending into pointless anecdotes?

Mantle, you were played by the playas - the engineers and pro-sprawl assholes who set up this whole "drive a car to be free" game and took legitimate science out of planning a long time ago (as if it was ever there to being with).

My rebuttal to that whole show:

"The Social Ideology 
of the Motorcar" by André Gorz




ubrayj02
11.3.09 - 10:57 pm

reply


Excellent article Joseph. Amazing that it was written 36 years ago.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by ubrayj02
11.4.09 - 7:27 am

reply


"Can we say the same about drivers/cars?"

What if Mantle went through a few minutes of check listing the common complaints drivers accuse cyclist of doing, and ask "do drivers/cars do the same"?

One by one he can say something like:

1. Cyclist (some) do not obey traffic laws.
Car and driver? the same

2. Cyclist act threatening when passed or encountered on the road.
Car and driver? the same

3. Dangerous
Car and driver? the same... actually worse

4. Cyclist dont pay attention or operate erratically
Car and driver? the same

5. Cyclist act as if they own the road

same
same
same
same

Get the point? What if he stipulated... look, drivers, we cant complain about these aspects unless we cleaned up our act. In fact our situation accounts for so many accidents/deaths to not only fellow drivers, but to pedestrians and cyclist too, so its pretty much unfair to levy these complaints to cyclist.

now, lets set aside these disputes and get to the issues that still remain... remember none of the previous complaints can be argued, because they are true of drivers as well.

Car versus Bicycle...

lets debate:

what remains to be said about the cyclist?

What benefits does the car provide over the bicycle?

What benefits does the bicycle provide over the car?

and so on



md2
11.4.09 - 11:17 am

reply


Excellent article! Amazing that these issues were were detailed so precise years ago. Still nothing has changed.

@md2
If you don't post that on some of the comments lists we've seen on this issue, I'm stealing it!



User1
responding to a comment by ubrayj02
11.4.09 - 11:44 am

reply


steal it... fuck, but then you're not stealing...

I already posted my lingerie comment on the KPCC site. you can quote me though... and share any profits or glory. If the chicks start to dig you... let me at least watch, cool?



md2
responding to a comment by User1
11.4.09 - 11:47 am

reply


I always enjoy Josef's posts, even though he may be an old armadillo.



Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by ubrayj02
11.4.09 - 11:59 am

reply


I won't have a chance of posting it up until late tonite. You'll see some sign in with an authoritative name. Something like "officer" or "doctor" or "fireman" or something like that.



User1
responding to a comment by md2
11.4.09 - 12:29 pm

reply


Im stealing it back.

Barack Obama just found out about the discussion



md2
responding to a comment by User1
11.4.09 - 12:35 pm

reply


i added a comment to Larry Mantles post about the discussion

I had the first comment


SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT... I should have said, "first".

Sorry I fucked up...



md2
11.4.09 - 12:48 pm

reply


Sorry heres the site

http://www.scpr.org/blogs/larry-mantle/2009/11/03/sharing-road-brings-out-passion/




md2
11.4.09 - 12:48 pm

reply


"Our segment this morning on how to help cars and bikes share the road was one of our more passionate in weeks. Monday's conviction of a motorist who intentionally caused serious injuries to two cyclists was seen by many of our riding listeners as an important step in supporting their rights. There are several other pending court cases involving allegations of road rage carried out against bike riders. Postings continue on the "AirTalk" page, as listeners debate the best ways to work out road conflicts. Fortunately, most of the conflicts don't end in rider injury, but the number of such incidents is growing as more people ride.

Most callers provided a pretty balanced perspective, looking at the sometimes competing interests of cyclists and drivers. Others verbally went after either bike riders or drivers for rude behavior and violating the law. I suspect just about all of us have seen examples with both groups. The ongoing problem will be how to respectfully share streets that aren't designed for the coexistence of both types of vehicles.

Unfortunately, it will be tough to keep some impatient drivers from blowing past cyclists without regard for the rider's vulnerability or legal right to share the road. Maybe as more people ride, or have family members who do, it will sensitize drivers to cyclists.

It will also be difficult to avoid some riders who claim the full lane, regardless of whether there are parked cars, a narrow lane, or a road hazard that makes lane ownership adviseable. It might be legal, but it's sometimes unnecessary and, in my opinion, rude to needlessly hold up car traffic.

Regardless of who's being rude to whom, let's hope these incidents of violent road rage stop. The jury in the Mandelville Canyon case sent a clear message.

Hopefully, we can begin a dialogue that takes us well beyond what's technically legal, to what's a considerate and safe way to share the road." -LM



Joe Borfo
11.4.09 - 1:29 pm

reply


"Our segment this morning on how to help cars and bikes share the road was one of our more passionate in weeks."


---if so... give us another shot... talk about it again



md2
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
11.4.09 - 1:30 pm

reply


"It will also be difficult to avoid some riders who claim the full lane, regardless of whether there are parked cars, a narrow lane, or a road hazard that makes lane ownership adviseable. It might be legal, but it's sometimes unnecessary and, in my opinion, rude to needlessly hold up car traffic."


rude?
needlessly?

Mantle is really losing my confidence......



Roadblock
11.4.09 - 2:58 pm

reply


I am not clear on why it is needlessly holding Larry Mantle up.

Is it is his right to travel at unlimited speeds on city streets? Slow down, dude, it's safer for all of us.

Man, autotopia won't die until the boomers do, that is just the way it will have to be.



ubrayj02
responding to a comment by Roadblock
11.6.09 - 12:05 am

reply


We need to keep the pressure on KPCC let's get some courteous email reminders that they need to give some time to defining the law, educating drivers and cyclists about it and committing to a healthy LA populace.

smcnary@americanpublicmedia.org





Roadblock
11.6.09 - 9:25 am

reply

Reply


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